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View Full Version : For a solo artificer, Evasion splash or no?



GrantAnderson
11-11-2013, 10:22 PM
I solo pretty much exclusively, and I'm thinking about TRing (my first TR!) my Wiz18/Rog2 into an Artificer - this should make good use of my Mabar +5 Int tome.

What I'm wondering is, as I get on into late Heroic and then Epic levels, am I going to be eating a lot of damage without Evasion and a high Reflex save? My main character at the moment is a level 23 Monk, and I suspect that Evasion plus Spell Resistance and a Monk's immunities are shielding me from a lot of nasty stuff.

If I do splash, the question will then be Monk or Rogue - Rogue gets a nice pile of skill points and some sneak attack (which apparently works well with Repeaters?), Monk has a couple of bonus feats and a stance.

Are the capstone enhancements (items at character level or +1 enhancement to weapons plus weapon becomes implement) good enough to make Evasion too costly?

(Any other build advice would also be much appreciated - particularly with an eye to soloing!)

Annolas
11-12-2013, 05:50 AM
It's a trade off between having Evasion and what you'd lose from those two Artificer levels. You'd lose the capstone, but neither tree capstone is that big of a deal. A bigger loss are the 6th level spells. A 18th level artificer only gets two, so you'd have to choose between two of Reconstruct, Blade Barrier, Deadly Weapons, and Tactical Detonation.

Evasion is great though. I went 18 Arti/2 Rogue on mine since I couldn't really think of anything I needed the feats for (and stances are useless w/ crossbow and runearm) and the extra potential trapping benefit of the Mechanic tree (I didn't end up using it, though). The sneak attack is a small bonus and it does work pretty well with repeaters. But you really need to work to get your Reflex save high enough to make it worth it. Artis Reflex saves aren't that great. But if you take Insightful Reflexes, use a Parrying VIII, UMD Greater Heroism or get the buff, and twist in Unearthly Reflexes the save gets high enough that you start dodging a bunch. YMMV if you go EE though, I don't do much of that so it might need to be even higher.

voodoogroves
11-12-2013, 07:39 AM
Once you dip, you may as well go to 16. There isn't a ton of value in the 17/18/19 levels (personal opinion) and the real limit is those 2 6th level spells.

Shadow7375
11-12-2013, 07:44 AM
The Juggernaut build might be something for you .... Been around for some time. Very solid build. Might need to adjust it here and there for personal preference.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/404822-The-Juggernaut-Prime-of-the-Warforged

Cheers

FuzzyDuck81
11-12-2013, 08:00 AM
Some notable things the different options would give (not counting evasion)
Monk:
- 1 bonus feat (not 2, since you miss out on the level 20 bonus feat from arty list)
- spending 2 AP (1st core thingy in each of henshin mystic & shintao trees) will net you +1% fire & force crit chance, a bit of spellpower for each, +10 positive spellpower to boost those handy admixtures & 5% healing amp, all of which are never bad things :)
- up to 2d6 sneak attack via ninja spy tree
- NOT a stance, as rune arms will uncenter you.

Rogue:
- lose 1 feat
- up to 3d6 sneak attack from class & enhancements
- Arbalester, to increase the PBS & sneak attack distance.. ok not much but it can help.
- extra crossbow training enhancements
- improved traps, if you like using them

voodoogroves
11-12-2013, 08:03 AM
The Juggernaut build might be something for you .... Been around for some time. Very solid build. Might need to adjust it here and there for personal preference.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/404822-The-Juggernaut-Prime-of-the-Warforged

Cheers

And incidentally, that split works whether or not you're a THF cleaving guy or a repeater focused build.

serthcore
11-12-2013, 08:05 AM
Some notable things the different options would give (not counting evasion)
Monk:
- 1 bonus feat (not 2, since you miss out on the level 20 bonus feat from arty list)
- spending 2 AP (1st core thingy in each of henshin mystic & shintao trees) will net you +1% fire & force crit chance, a bit of spellpower for each, +10 positive spellpower to boost those handy admixtures & 5% healing amp, all of which are never bad things :)
- up to 2d6 sneak attack via ninja spy tree
- NOT a stance, as rune arms will uncenter you.

Rogue:
- lose 1 feat
- up to 3d6 sneak attack from class & enhancements
- Arbalester, to increase the PBS & sneak attack distance.. ok not much but it can help.
- extra crossbow training enhancements
- improved traps, if you like using them

Monk also gives +3 base saves, +3 dodge (for 3 AP in ninja spy) and +3 reflexes and dodge cap (again in ninja spy).

I would go for monk

Darkrok
11-12-2013, 08:11 AM
Shadowdancer (http://ddowiki.com/page/Shadowdancer) is an outstanding epic destiny for an int-based character and it provides Evasion once you max it out. Staying pure definitely has some benefits, especially if you like Arcanotech (most don't, I do) as the Arcanotech capstone is the old capstone that lets you use wands/potions/clickies at level 20 instead of the listed level.

HokieHWT05
11-12-2013, 08:48 AM
I just LR'd my 2nd life build pure arti to try out the +2 rogue at level 1 & 2 and honestly at level 26/27 I have not noticed a huge difference. The extra skill points are nice but it is my opinion that with the right gear, stats & tomes they are not needed. With that said the evasion is very nice as long as you take Insightful Reflexes. My intel is the same (50), 800HP, & 1900SP. I tried out the splash for one reason only...I said I could kite the undead dragons in FOT, got stunned then got dead and embarrassed...2 levels of rogue allowed me to kite them for 20 minutes the next time as our outstanding group got the boom & had to kill the Reaver & Truthful One twice as I ran around helping to raise people while kiting.... If you have any questions please feel free to message me here or in-game. Take care & good luck!

Rakuda13
11-12-2013, 09:24 AM
If you are self healing its nice to have the extra lvl6 spell spot for reconstruct.

Why do you think you need evasion?
None of my Artis have it,but i play ranged.
I also know where the traps are that I have to prepare for that some people splash evasion for.
Such as Von 5 lighting traps, I prepare defence for the lighting traps before I go in.
That is about the most serious trap that evasion would really help out with.
There are more around but for me its not worth losing a lvl6 spell slot to splash evasion.

GrantAnderson
11-12-2013, 11:45 AM
Thanks for all the advice - plenty to think about there.

If you are self healing its nice to have the extra lvl6 spell spot for reconstruct.
Why do you think you need evasion?
Both my 20+ characters have evasion - I'm not sure how much damage I'm dodging from spells and traps by having it, which is why I ask! I'm wondering if the damage I'd take by not having it would be crippling if I'm getting by on self-healing.

I shall have a closer look at the Juggernaut; at first glance it looks nifty.

HokieHWT05
11-12-2013, 06:26 PM
If you are self healing its nice to have the extra lvl6 spell spot for reconstruct.

Why do you think you need evasion?
None of my Artis have it,but i play ranged.
I also know where the traps are that I have to prepare for that some people splash evasion for.
Such as Von 5 lighting traps, I prepare defence for the lighting traps before I go in.
That is about the most serious trap that evasion would really help out with.
There are more around but for me its not worth losing a lvl6 spell slot to splash evasion.

Interesting that I forgot to mention this...I do not have reconstruct. With the new enhancement tree I can use the 30% repair amp & get away with just having repair critical & repair serious thus allowing blade barrier & deadly.

Rakuda13
11-12-2013, 11:26 PM
Interesting that I forgot to mention this...I do not have reconstruct. With the new enhancement tree I can use the 30% repair amp & get away with just having repair critical & repair serious thus allowing blade barrier & deadly.

You make a good point,there are lots of ways to play though. Arti is my favorite because you can do so many different things with it.

For example Deadly for me isnt a must have anymore,as I can get .5 from the new enhancement. I normally carry it for others,but have seen less people asking for it because of the new gear.

I like to have 3 spell slots as at least one slot can be used for specific quest requirements. Two spell slots dont really give me as much freedom. Deconstruct is also a nice spell to have,gets WF excited in house C quests.

Your healing amp doesnt come from being an Arti though does it? So thats another thing.Mainly running Drow so i dont have to wait for the search function to pop boxes and secret doors is well worth not being a WF.

Well i hope the original poster got some ideas anyway. Arti is really fun.

GrantAnderson
11-13-2013, 12:18 PM
You make a good point,there are lots of ways to play though. Arti is my favorite because you can do so many different things with it.

For example Deadly for me isnt a must have anymore,as I can get .5 from the new enhancement. I normally carry it for others,but have seen less people asking for it because of the new gear.

I like to have 3 spell slots as at least one slot can be used for specific quest requirements. Two spell slots dont really give me as much freedom. Deconstruct is also a nice spell to have,gets WF excited in house C quests.

Your healing amp doesnt come from being an Arti though does it? So thats another thing.Mainly running Drow so i dont have to wait for the search function to pop boxes and secret doors is well worth not being a WF.

Well i hope the original poster got some ideas anyway. Arti is really fun.
I did get a lot of good ideas!

The juggernaut looks interesting - my Wizard is from a while back (before +3 and higher tomes were very accessible to soloers) and so has mainly +2s apart from the +5 Mabar Int tome.

Also a bladeforged juggernaut-like build (Art16/Pal2/Mnk2, as the first Paladin level is stuck there without a LR+1) - you get Reconstruct as a SLA, which means less need to have it in the spellbook.

And also a ranged caster-type - if I want to leverage that high Int, possibly just a plain ol' ranged caster type.

Panzermeyer
11-13-2013, 01:13 PM
I solo pretty much exclusively, and I'm thinking about TRing (my first TR!) my Wiz18/Rog2 into an Artificer - this should make good use of my Mabar +5 Int tome.

What I'm wondering is, as I get on into late Heroic and then Epic levels, am I going to be eating a lot of damage without Evasion and a high Reflex save? My main character at the moment is a level 23 Monk, and I suspect that Evasion plus Spell Resistance and a Monk's immunities are shielding me from a lot of nasty stuff.

If I do splash, the question will then be Monk or Rogue - Rogue gets a nice pile of skill points and some sneak attack (which apparently works well with Repeaters?), Monk has a couple of bonus feats and a stance.

Are the capstone enhancements (items at character level or +1 enhancement to weapons plus weapon becomes implement) good enough to make Evasion too costly?

(Any other build advice would also be much appreciated - particularly with an eye to soloing!)

I have a pure Arti currently.
I love it. It is currently my favorite class.

I was planning on going in the Shadowdancer ED as my main, in large part for Evasion.

My rogue was in shadowdancer it it worked out great. Particularly getting and using the shadow changes.
I have been decidedly very disappointed with the difficulty in getting shadow charges on a ranged build. I almost never run in Shadowdancer.

Personally I am TRing a toon to be a pure Artificier. Main reason being the extra feat at 20 and the 2 additional 6th level spells. I use all 4 Blade Barrier, Tactical Detontaton, Reconstruct, and Deadly Weapons very very regularly. If anything I could live without BB, but not sure I could live without all of them.

Honestly with insightful reflexes, my reflexes saves in proper destiny were a lot more than my rogue which I was very surprised about. Insightful reflexes is a must.

If you have the DC's Tactical Detontion is an awesome CC spell, and really the only one Arties have. If you go less than pure, you are going to lose the DC's to be generally effective. Something to consider.

Personally if I was going to splash I would probably go monk for the feats, and take dodge and mobility for dodge.

If you are looking for just build ideas, if your Wiz was a pale master and already has some of the gear, you can try this route. A https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425976-Shiradi-Pale-Artificer-%28Epic-Build-Idea-Looking-for-Feedback%29 Pale Artificer.

This was a concept build idea for something different. I was grinding out a Wizard past life and thought I would test it out. And honestly I love this build, and I don't have the gear for it. I still am not wearing anything to boost my negative healing and have run EE in some groups. The build is very survivable, very effective, and very fun. I will be TRing my current Arti into this build at some point. Not having TD hurts, but my heightened web and cloudkill still works wonderful for CC.

Draxis
11-13-2013, 01:30 PM
I play a pure arti and a pure rog and I can at least give my informed opinion that evasion isn't AS much of a necessity as it was in the past. Before maybe U14, ee casters could fling enough damage to do 600+ pts per spell WITH a save. That's insane, and pretty much guaranteed you either had evasion, or were dieing every 5 mins to caster spells. Now casters on ee do a max of like 200 dmg with a save, which is at least not insta-death.

Traps, for the most part, are still deadly. There are lots of traps, especially in Eberron, that will still 1-shot you on a save without evasion. Thankfully, for an arti, most can be disabled without having to stand in them.

GrantAnderson
11-15-2013, 02:36 PM
Thanks everyone - I've more or less settled on going pure Artificer now - Warforged for the lovely self-healing. Probably a ranged/caster type like the one here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/386775-Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-artificer

I was only planning to go to 20 then TR again, but the character got a Raider's box with a Needle in it, so maybe I'll have a bit of a play with that and trot up to 28 for an EPL first. The linked build goes for the Battle Engineer capstone and disdains the SLAs. (I had a fondness for SLAs on my Archmage, but possibly the Artificer ones are not as cool?)

ninjaeli
01-21-2014, 10:45 PM
Thanks everyone - I've more or less settled on going pure Artificer now - Warforged for the lovely self-healing. Probably a ranged/caster type like the one here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/386775-Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-artificer

I was only planning to go to 20 then TR again, but the character got a Raider's box with a Needle in it, so maybe I'll have a bit of a play with that and trot up to 28 for an EPL first. The linked build goes for the Battle Engineer capstone and disdains the SLAs. (I had a fondness for SLAs on my Archmage, but possibly the Artificer ones are not as cool?)


im only lvl 20 on my arti and being able to casts spells for only 6 sp and hitting for 1k is pretty nice especially since they are SLA's and dont need extra sp from meta's.