PDA

View Full Version : Kensai AA vs AA Monkcher - or any AA builds



MagicBlade
11-08-2013, 07:08 PM
Hello, I am wanting to make an AA, but I'm not sure what would be best to do. I've seen several different options before, and have tried out a couple of them pre U19, but nothing yet post U19 (aside a lvl 7 4/2/1 bard, range, fight) but I don't remember the setup I was going with it, or the enhancements so am going to scrap and remake. I'd like builds regarding the half-elf or elf... doesn't matter if it's racial AA or class AA, although I might prefer the class AA with at least 6 Ranger..

Some options I've seen are 12 Fighter/6 Ranger/2 Monk.. 12 Monk/6 Ranger/2 Fighter, 12 Fighter/6 Monk/2 Ranger... etc etc... what do you all think might be the best, or at least funnest AA build? With high DPS + Survivability preferably. The only classes I do not have at this moment are: Favored Soul, Artificer, and the only race I do not have is the Warforged.

If someone could help me with a couple different options for a post U19 AA build - I'd really appreciate it. Have been away from DDO for a long while and don't remember all of it.

(Side note)
If anyone is familiar with Dwarven Stalwart Defenders (Tanks) I could use a little info on them as well.

Munkenmo
11-08-2013, 08:34 PM
My preferred split atm is a 12monk, 6ranger, 2druid. My build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/311770-Rangenmo-a-monk-without-a-shuriken)

If you're primarily interested in dps, I would strongly advise against a full time Bow user that doesn't have 10k stars and manyshot.

Without 10k stars, you're just too far behind in dps, When comparing manyshot cycles
A monkcher gets to
10k stars, manyshot, 10k stars, 10k stars, manyshot 10k stars. (repeat)

A ranger gets to
wait, Manyshot, wait, wait, Manyshot wait. (repeat)

Hope that helps.

ps. if you're interested in fun over dps, then a 12fighter split isn't that bad, but imo an 8fighter, 6monk, 6ranger split would be better.

MagicBlade
11-08-2013, 08:56 PM
My preferred split atm is a 12monk, 6ranger, 2druid. My build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/311770-Rangenmo-a-monk-without-a-shuriken)

If you're primarily interested in dps, I would strongly advise against a full time Bow user that doesn't have 10k stars and manyshot.

Without 10k stars, you're just too far behind in dps, When comparing manyshot cycles
A monkcher gets to
10k stars, manyshot, 10k stars, 10k stars, manyshot 10k stars. (repeat)

A ranger gets to
wait, Manyshot, wait, wait, Manyshot wait. (repeat)

Hope that helps.

ps. if you're interested in fun over dps, then a 12fighter split isn't that bad, but imo an 8fighter, 6monk, 6ranger split would be better.

Looking for a good dps build, that's also fun to play

Arsont
11-17-2013, 12:08 AM
My preferred split atm is a 12monk, 6ranger, 2druid. My build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/311770-Rangenmo-a-monk-without-a-shuriken)

If you're primarily interested in dps, I would strongly advise against a full time Bow user that doesn't have 10k stars and manyshot.

Without 10k stars, you're just too far behind in dps, When comparing manyshot cycles
A monkcher gets to
10k stars, manyshot, 10k stars, 10k stars, manyshot 10k stars. (repeat)

A ranger gets to
wait, Manyshot, wait, wait, Manyshot wait. (repeat)

Hope that helps.

ps. if you're interested in fun over dps, then a 12fighter split isn't that bad, but imo an 8fighter, 6monk, 6ranger split would be better.
Munkenmo has a point. As an AA, you've got a couple major decisions. The first being, how much ranged do you want to do? If you elect to go with pure/mostly ranged, I MUST recommend taking at least 6 monk levels and fitting in 10k Stars. As noted, you do an awful lot of waiting in between Manyshots. The other alterntive is to build some form of melee, be it half-half or 90% melee. Either way, I always suggest having some form of melee, be it to keep from kiting or to build ki.



With the 10k stars build and a moderate wisdom (No lower than 30, 34 is my preferred baseline), you can keep pewpewing consistently in-between Manyshots. Some strong monk base builds I've seen or played:

-12/6/2 Monk/Ranger/Whatever
The standard used to be 2 Fighter, but without the feat requisites for AA, 2 pally is a strong contender (For human or if you don't want to take pally dilly on a helf), as is 2 druid. This split gives you access to most of your ranged feats for free (Bow str, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Manyshot), along with a handful of other goodies. Most notably, 6 minute Ram's Might, access to Shadow Fade, Abundant Step, Master of Stances (For +1 ki gen in Ocean or +1 crit mod in earth) and monk resistances. For a first AA build, this is one of my favorites, and probably the build I'll do again for my monk life.

-8/6/6 Monk/Ranger/Fighter
This is similar to the above, but with the option for more flat ranged dps through the Kensei tree (And the associated feats). You lose Abundant Step and Master of Stances, but you can still spend a feat on Master if you so choose.

-8/6/6 Fighter/Monk/Ranger
A very slight modifiction on the second build here, trading out Wholeness of Body and a fist die step for more flat damage through the Kensei tree. I prefer the previous build over this one, but both work out about equally.

-8/6/6 Druid/Monk/Ranger
This is the build I'm currently doing on my main. While it's less dps than the other two, it brings a lot of self-sufficency through the druid levels. Also, with more casting levels, the larger sp pool is noticable if you frequently use the activated abilities from the AA tree. I personally run this as a 50/50 melee/ranged split (Melee with quarterstaves and cleave/great cleave), but it could function well as a mostly ranged build.

-14/6,12/8,11/6/3, #/#/# Ranger/Monk/Whatever
I include most of the ranger heavy splits under this because they offer basically all the same thing. Choose how many ranger levels you want for the feats and spells you want. Ranger 11 gets full twf chain and IPS, along with self cast resist 30 and a single lv 3 spell (Not much there to choose from though). Ranger 12 gets +5 barkskin (Less imporant now than before AC changes). Ranger 14 gets self cast FoM. Once you decide on the ranger levels, tack on at least 6 monk levels to pick up 10k stars. Once that's done, you can fill in any extra levels for utility/feats/etc. Personally, I'd lean towards either 14/6 ranger/monk or 12/7/1 ranger/monk/druid or arti (Or in your case, rogue). Druid for sp, arti for skills


If you were interested in more of a melee blend, any of the above builds could be tweaked to fit that in (Some better than others, depending on feats and unarmed vs thf vs twf). Or, for more melee/ranged blended builds, you could look at something like these:

-13/6/1 Rogue/Monk/druid
With high umd and wands through druid, this come out to be pretty self-sufficent. I did this build as an elven Thief Acrobat, using Grace for bow damage and TA for staves, but it could be reworked as a str build.

-8/6/6 Rogue/Monk/Ranger
I've seen a friend use this build with unarmed and Stunning Fist as a melee option, but I suppose shortswords or staves would work too.

-12/6/2 Fighter/Ranger/Monk (Aka "Helves Angel")
You lose 10k Stars with this split, but pick up Power Surge and other fighter goodies. I ran this build with khopeshes and light armor for most of the time, but I've seen people using everything from heavy picks to unarmed variants. The idea is to use your fighter feats/Kensei tree to focus on your melee abilities, and letting AA carry the weight of your ranged utility/damage. Ideally, helf with cleric dilly for self-sufficency while leveling, swapping to rogue or pally at higher levels for raiding.

There are of course lots of other options, but I feel these are the builds that offer the best blend of fun, dps and survivbility.


I find the best thing is to just look at the options available in the enhancement trees, pick what class levels you want, then just run with it. Just keep in mind that in order to get the most out of AA, you need at least 5 ranger levels for Slayers (Tier 5 in AA tree) or the elven/half elf racial tree (10 spent in tree+4 for AA just to unlock AA tree). Anyhow, I've gone on for long enough. If something is unclear, let me know.

Hope this helps!

Bracers
11-18-2013, 03:32 PM
Hi,

There are some enh / feat that we can use for DX in dmg with bow without be an elf (racial enh) ??

ty

barecm
12-10-2013, 04:36 PM
I have an 8 arti / 6 monk / 6 ranger and it does really well. The arti gets some free feats that work well along with the ranger and monk ones. You have amazingly high UMD and nice self buffs and you can choose to build for traps and locks etc. It is the same single target DPS as my previous standard builds except you get some side benefits from arti. Plus, if you are looking to do completionist, this is a good way to get arti and still use a bow. In fact, if you go human for the extra feat, you can do every class except bard and barb the same way. 8 whatever, 6 ranger, 6 monk. The extra feat from human allows you to keep all the ranged feats, toughness, and have enough to get all the pre-req feats for overwheming critical. For bard and/or barb, I think you can do an 11 - 9 split (to keep evasion) or even 10-10 split since bard and barb will be dominant class for TR purposes. I currently have a 10-10 bard-rgr and it is awesome for crowd control. DPS is lighter and not very bursty, but you pretty much have everything pinned, dancing or fascinated so...

the_one_dwarfforged
01-15-2014, 03:45 AM
something i think should be added:

12/6/2 ftr/monk/whatever you want

snowlord
01-22-2014, 05:05 PM
Munkenmo has a point. As an AA, you've got a couple major decisions. The first being, how much ranged do you want to do? If you elect to go with pure/mostly ranged, I MUST recommend taking at least 6 monk levels and fitting in 10k Stars. As noted, you do an awful lot of waiting in between Manyshots. The other alterntive is to build some form of melee, be it half-half or 90% melee. Either way, I always suggest having some form of melee, be it to keep from kiting or to build ki.



With the 10k stars build and a moderate wisdom (No lower than 30, 34 is my preferred baseline), you can keep pewpewing consistently in-between Manyshots. Some strong monk base builds I've seen or played:

-12/6/2 Monk/Ranger/Whatever
The standard used to be 2 Fighter, but without the feat requisites for AA, 2 pally is a strong contender (For human or if you don't want to take pally dilly on a helf), as is 2 druid. This split gives you access to most of your ranged feats for free (Bow str, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Manyshot), along with a handful of other goodies. Most notably, 6 minute Ram's Might, access to Shadow Fade, Abundant Step, Master of Stances (For +1 ki gen in Ocean or +1 crit mod in earth) and monk resistances. For a first AA build, this is one of my favorites, and probably the build I'll do again for my monk life.

-8/6/6 Monk/Ranger/Fighter
This is similar to the above, but with the option for more flat ranged dps through the Kensei tree (And the associated feats). You lose Abundant Step and Master of Stances, but you can still spend a feat on Master if you so choose.

-8/6/6 Fighter/Monk/Ranger
A very slight modifiction on the second build here, trading out Wholeness of Body and a fist die step for more flat damage through the Kensei tree. I prefer the previous build over this one, but both work out about equally.

-8/6/6 Druid/Monk/Ranger
This is the build I'm currently doing on my main. While it's less dps than the other two, it brings a lot of self-sufficency through the druid levels. Also, with more casting levels, the larger sp pool is noticable if you frequently use the activated abilities from the AA tree. I personally run this as a 50/50 melee/ranged split (Melee with quarterstaves and cleave/great cleave), but it could function well as a mostly ranged build.

-14/6,12/8,11/6/3, #/#/# Ranger/Monk/Whatever
I include most of the ranger heavy splits under this because they offer basically all the same thing. Choose how many ranger levels you want for the feats and spells you want. Ranger 11 gets full twf chain and IPS, along with self cast resist 30 and a single lv 3 spell (Not much there to choose from though). Ranger 12 gets +5 barkskin (Less imporant now than before AC changes). Ranger 14 gets self cast FoM. Once you decide on the ranger levels, tack on at least 6 monk levels to pick up 10k stars. Once that's done, you can fill in any extra levels for utility/feats/etc. Personally, I'd lean towards either 14/6 ranger/monk or 12/7/1 ranger/monk/druid or arti (Or in your case, rogue). Druid for sp, arti for skills


If you were interested in more of a melee blend, any of the above builds could be tweaked to fit that in (Some better than others, depending on feats and unarmed vs thf vs twf). Or, for more melee/ranged blended builds, you could look at something like these:

-13/6/1 Rogue/Monk/druid
With high umd and wands through druid, this come out to be pretty self-sufficent. I did this build as an elven Thief Acrobat, using Grace for bow damage and TA for staves, but it could be reworked as a str build.

-8/6/6 Rogue/Monk/Ranger
I've seen a friend use this build with unarmed and Stunning Fist as a melee option, but I suppose shortswords or staves would work too.

-12/6/2 Fighter/Ranger/Monk (Aka "Helves Angel")
You lose 10k Stars with this split, but pick up Power Surge and other fighter goodies. I ran this build with khopeshes and light armor for most of the time, but I've seen people using everything from heavy picks to unarmed variants. The idea is to use your fighter feats/Kensei tree to focus on your melee abilities, and letting AA carry the weight of your ranged utility/damage. Ideally, helf with cleric dilly for self-sufficency while leveling, swapping to rogue or pally at higher levels for raiding.

There are of course lots of other options, but I feel these are the builds that offer the best blend of fun, dps and survivbility.


I find the best thing is to just look at the options available in the enhancement trees, pick what class levels you want, then just run with it. Just keep in mind that in order to get the most out of AA, you need at least 5 ranger levels for Slayers (Tier 5 in AA tree) or the elven/half elf racial tree (10 spent in tree+4 for AA just to unlock AA tree). Anyhow, I've gone on for long enough. If something is unclear, let me know.

Hope this helps!

Like all these ideas... questions;

1 - is Drow doable here, to get Shuriken for free? or need human for more skills and feats?

2 - I like disarming traps, so is this doable; 12 monk, 6 ranger, 2 rogue ???? (or another combo of these?) what order would I do this? I know rogue level one for skill points into trapping for sure.. would like it to be a range (shuriken) and melee THF (staff)... this possible? or good idea?

thx.

crazycaren
01-25-2014, 01:58 PM
Hi
arsont gives a great summary of most builds and their trade offs.

I say, why choose between AA and Kensai when you can be both? Check out my build under multi-clase
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435069-Kensai-Monkcher-12-ftr-6-monk-2-archer