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Cordovan
10-28-2013, 02:52 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

enochiancub
10-28-2013, 02:53 PM
What a shame. Thanks for the info though.

rayworks
10-28-2013, 02:54 PM
Why is lag in quotes? That makes it sound like you think lag isn't real. It is real, and most of it is on Turbine's side of the client-server divide.

Cordovan
10-28-2013, 02:58 PM
Why is lag in quotes? That makes it sound like you think lag isn't real. It is real, and most of it is on Turbine's side of the client-server divide.

The reason is that some things that are described as "lag" may well be non-lag-related bugs or other performance issues, rather than issues related to the more traditional definitions of lag. We are well aware of the performance issues reported with Mabar this weekend.

Lyacryma
10-28-2013, 03:03 PM
What about those that haven't had (for whatever reason) a chance to get their signets? 11 days is a lot of time to lose potential signets from...

blackdae
10-28-2013, 03:03 PM
Are you going to open it again or we have to wait next year?

FuzzyDuck81
10-28-2013, 03:04 PM
Ok, who's opening the book on what potential causes there were for it? :)

I'm going to guess that kobolds were telling gargoyles how much they hate big boxes, and gargoyles were inspired by the same thing for those altars.

Thar
10-28-2013, 03:05 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

is it gone till next year or do you plan on bringing it back at a later time this year?

catscan420
10-28-2013, 03:05 PM
Thanks for looking into this!

RedHost
10-28-2013, 03:06 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

What happened to "Don't worry people, Mabar will be around long enough for you to get the Signets you need."

Dave_Rapp
10-28-2013, 03:09 PM
Gooooood evening everybody and welcome to Whose Lag Is It Anyway? On Tonight's show...

"What do you mean the damage doesn't stack if they're on top of each other?" Blade Barrier!

"I can't cast it in the same spot as ice storm?" Fire Wall!

"I miss the old music." Otto's Sphere of Dancing!

And, "Actually not that bad here." Acid Rain!

And I'm your host, Eternity the Spectral Dragon. Come on down, let's have some lag.

Missing_Minds
10-28-2013, 03:09 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Thank you. I can certain understand why you are not closing at this very moment. Some people have been able to get things accomplished.

I just hope that it will be fixed/adjusted that all level ranges can compete "equally" in so far as lag is concerned.
I also hope that when it gets re opened it will stay open longer to accommodate the early shut down.

Hoglum
10-28-2013, 03:09 PM
Maybe add Gremlins next year to the monster list.

TeacherSyn
10-28-2013, 03:10 PM
Sorry to hear. The dev and planning teams put a lot of thought into the new goodies that made the place more attractive than ever. A +5 tome is too good to pass up. Despite the lag, I'm sure many players loved the changes.

My observation is that House Jorasco is the nexus for the performance/"lag" issues. Should that place get instances (as does Eveningstar and the Marketplace) while Mabar is up? Might help.

Missing_Minds
10-28-2013, 03:10 PM
What happened to "Don't worry people, Mabar will be around long enough for you to get the Signets you need."

When lag is failing 60%+ of the runs, it is rather difficult to get signets.

Navox
10-28-2013, 03:11 PM
What happened to "Don't worry people, Mabar will be around long enough for you to get the Signets you need."

They should just reward every character with a +5 tome for the inconvenience.

Navox
10-28-2013, 03:14 PM
Gooooood evening everybody and welcome to Whose Lag Is It Anyway? On Tonight's show...

"What do you mean the damage doesn't stack if they're on top of each other?" Blade Barrier!

"I can't cast it in the same spot as ice storm?" Fire Wall!

"I miss the old music." Otto's Sphere of Dancing!

And, "Actually not that bad here." Acid Rain!

And I'm your host, Eternity the Spectral Dragon. Come on down, let's have some lag.

Waiting to prepare all altars does a lot to alleviate lag. Many people have been having successful runs at all level ranges with that approach...

Loromir
10-28-2013, 03:14 PM
I hope you are just bringing it down to make a fix. I had hoped to get a couple more +5 tomes. I made the following suggestion in another thread that I am convinced would go a long way to fixng the "performance issues".

Please bring it back for Thanksgiving like you did last year...fixed this time:


I enjoy Mabar, but really wish ths summoning chamber would work properly. Lag Makes it unplayable. I have a suggestion that I think would fix the Lag.


Reduce the number of Gargoyles that spawn at one time by about 75%. To keep the challenge difficulty, raise the CR of each Gargoyle to offset the reduced number. In the intance I was in last night, I was in a Altar room and we had about 10 gargoyles spawn at once. If each Altar room had 10 and each lever had 5 at one time, that would be 60 Mobs + One dragon...not to mention up to 24-32 players in one instance. No wonder we get such lag.

Something drastic needs to be done, and I think this might go a long way towards doing that.

YUGWEN
10-28-2013, 03:15 PM
I scheduled days off from work in advance specifically to take part in mabar this year. That said, I am actually glad you are closing it early and making that a waste for me. Almost everything I enjoyed from past mabars is missing this year. Last year had lag failures too, but this year it is every time for me and everyone I run with.

The loss of slayers for the monster manual is very signifcant and drops mabar down on events for me. CC gives a ton of XP, great gear, and slayers for even more XP. I really like that. Slayers in Mabar last year were great too, and since I kept having lag wipes on the dragon fight it kept the event enjoyable - it gave me something else to do and a reason to take part. This year, there is no point except to farm motes... for next year? Wiping from lag on the dragon fight isn't enjoyable, and I come to ddo for fun. Mabar isn't fun this year, so glad it is being closed. I really hope the issues are addressed and it can come back strong.

On the questions about getting signets, a nice add to the event I don't recall from prior events, if lag causes wipes on the majority of attempts you aren't going to get signets anyway. You'll lose the time you invested and unless you are saintly, probably not be in the best of moods knowing you have a long wait to get another shot.

Cordovan
10-28-2013, 03:15 PM
What happened to "Don't worry people, Mabar will be around long enough for you to get the Signets you need."

Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.


is it gone till next year or do you plan on bringing it back at a later time this year?

We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

alancarp
10-28-2013, 03:15 PM
What happened to "Don't worry people, Mabar will be around long enough for you to get the Signets you need."

There was an 'encore' appearance last year (around late November); let's see if that happens once they can address the issues. In the meantime, there's still a few more days to work with it, if you feel like doing so. I would think that's a reasonable compromise for now.

Never mind... while I was typing, all of that became overcome by events. And not good ones, either.

Livmo
10-28-2013, 03:16 PM
This was my first Mabar and I was unable to play due to the "lag". However, I don't think of it as lag. I was able to see multiple mob spawns drop right after each other in the same spot, up to 4 at least in the graveyard. And in the dragon the same with the gargoyles. Seems like a monster spawn issue/dungeon alert, but I'm far from an expert, just my opinion. Even under the old timeline it would have been impossible for me to earn anything significant, so maybe next year.

I did get to the chance to fight one of them mulitiple mob spawns while the rest of the party was frozen. Impossible. We are talking being completely surrounded by metal skeletons and mummies 4-5 rows deep on all sides.

ForgettableNPC
10-28-2013, 03:17 PM
Well, I wanted to take my time and earn enough signets for another +5 tome after reincarnating (assuming it works) and get both the cosmetic items, but looks like I'll have to reincarnate earlier than I thought I would.

I don't suppose we could have Risia Ice Games/Festivult a bit earlier this year, then? As Compensation, maybe? Figure it doesn't hurt to ask.

Nuryam
10-28-2013, 03:18 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.



Too bad. Tough, but correct decision imho. GL finding out what is causing the performance issues.

2pleasegimmie
10-28-2013, 03:19 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

So, once more the "fix" to a problem with the game is simply to disable the feature.

Way to go - again.

Erdrique
10-28-2013, 03:20 PM
I was really enjoying my runs through Mabar this year, I did have some laggy issues but for the most part I had more completions then I did failures (at least up to this point). My guildie had a rough run last night in the level 8 to 13 instance where his party got stuck in the instance for a good amount of time after a large lag spike cause them to fail. I was running a low level (3rd level character) at the same time and didn't experience what he ran into. I hope you guys can get it fixed!!

Shinjiteru
10-28-2013, 03:21 PM
Hmm... is it possible there were too many threads complaining about mabar this year? Are you still sensitive because of the many exploiters recently?
Or is this caused by the new people who have to make these kind of decissions at Turbine?

I am a bit surprised about this because the lag isn't worse than it was the last two years and back then you didn't end mabar earlier than expected (at least not because of lag).
So, I am wondering why this year.

catscan420
10-28-2013, 03:22 PM
Could you at least leave the vendor through the weekend... there are some people who only play on the weekend. It would suck for them to log in Friday afternoon to find out it's gone and they haven't turned in signets yet.

YUGWEN
10-28-2013, 03:23 PM
Waiting to prepare all altars does a lot to alleviate lag. Many people have been having successful runs at all level ranges with that approach...

There is also a legend that you can get on a better server if you jump right in, or wait to jump in, opinions differ on that trick.

On my last run, we tried every trick we could, and it still lag locked and failed. We had no AOEs in there not even blade barrier. Waited, activated, waited, etc. Staggered everything we could. Had clean start with no lag until dragon showed up, then everything lag locked. Other than taking out the dragon and not having gargoyles spawn I''m not sure what can be done different as is. Luck of the draw.

Impaqt
10-28-2013, 03:24 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

Might be nice to give everyone 3 Signets.....

Or just bring back Crystal Cove with Mabar rewards!

Stoner81
10-28-2013, 03:24 PM
Gooooood evening everybody and welcome to Whose Lag Is It Anyway? On Tonight's show...

"What do you mean the damage doesn't stack if they're on top of each other?" Blade Barrier!

"I can't cast it in the same spot as ice storm?" Fire Wall!

"I miss the old music." Otto's Sphere of Dancing!

And, "Actually not that bad here." Acid Rain!

And I'm your host, Eternity the Spectral Dragon. Come on down, let's have some lag.

Not exactly what one might call helpful to the situation however it is just damn funny!

Stoner81.

supott
10-28-2013, 03:26 PM
I haven't done my Mabar farming for the reason i was doing XP farming and scheduled it for November. I may not be able to get 3 signets or enough to get the stuff I want.

Also the weekend is over so not much time to play til Mabar closes..

Maybe bring Mabar back? Or Free gift for those who were not so lucky.

Theopolis
10-28-2013, 03:27 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

HAHAHAHA.....lmao Define "fix", "Improve".... How many updates (years/months) we have to wait for that? How about the "bug report" thing is that fixed? I could go on with the thing about bugs, but hey, you can't report them then they don't exist. How many years has mabar already been broken?.... your working on that right? Please enough excuses.

Ryiah
10-28-2013, 03:27 PM
We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns.

Might as well just admit it Cordovan. You're closing it because of an exploit.

Dave_Rapp
10-28-2013, 03:28 PM
Not exactly what one might call helpful to the situation however it is just damn funny!

That's just what I was going for! ;)

Loromir
10-28-2013, 03:29 PM
Might as well just admit it Cordovan. You're closing it because of an exploit.

If that was the case...they would close it today.

Ryiah
10-28-2013, 03:30 PM
If that was the case...they would close it today.

Except there is an exploit.

Saravis
10-28-2013, 03:30 PM
We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Might I make the suggestion that you look into a player cap for the Summoning Chamber. I question if your servers are able to handle that much load from that much activity in a single instance. Perhaps even consider cutting down the number of altars to just 2 and turn it into a true raid type quest; 12 member party.

ULTRAkobold
10-28-2013, 03:30 PM
Don't close it, fix it. I buy supreme tomes for all the toons I play regularly, but I still have several toons that need cloaks for the next year. As a loyal customer please, jest let me roll the dice on lag until I can get my work done for the year.

Antiguo
10-28-2013, 03:31 PM
Might as well just admit it Cordovan. You're closing it because of an exploit.

Of course it's because an exploit, one that affects their sales i bet, they couldnt care less about the "performance issues".

Loromir
10-28-2013, 03:32 PM
Except there is an exploit.


Dang....I never find out what exploits are until they shut things down. I guess, I'm just naive, I hadn't heard iof this.

shibe
10-28-2013, 03:33 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

I do not understand. Whats the point of closing it? It lags sometimes and it doesn't others. We can still get signets sometimes. I was looking forward to some of the new stuff you guys had for Mabar now I won't have time to get it. Now I have to wait for who knows how long to update all my stuff because I haven't had time this week to play. I planned on playing next week. This is your best festival I think you should reconsider closing it. At least let us know you will open it back up in a few weeks. I don't get it. Paying customers want to know more then the little sound bites we get once in a while.

Xaenith
10-28-2013, 03:33 PM
I can't be the only one who finds this terribly amusing, can I?

Phoenix-daBard
10-28-2013, 03:36 PM
The loss of slayers for the monster manual is very signifcant and drops mabar down on events for me. CC gives a ton of XP, great gear, and slayers for even more XP.

Sadly Mr Jibbers from the Cove is sadly absent from the MM. Rather annoying considering how many times I took him out.

sephiroth1084
10-28-2013, 03:38 PM
Cordovan, someone in another thread suggested that a big part of the lag issue may be tied to instance i2049 (I believe), saying that their interpretation of why that instance has long been known to have a high incidence of lag is that it's the first instance people go into for a lot of things on the server: the Cannith crafting hall, a lot of raids, Mabar, and some other things...so it's getting the brunt of the load until it's full, at which point people get pushed into i2050 (or 1050 or whatever), etc... Since 49 is the one that fills first, and has so many disparate parts of the game all in there, it's most prone to lag during busy hours.

Is there any way to further compartmentalize the instancing across the game to better distribute this load? At the very least, find a way to wall off Mabar from the entire rest of the game, so people who aren't even interested in playing in the graveyard aren't having their game experience ruined as well. It's ridiculous that you (the Devs) are announcing the early closure of Mabar due to the forum outrage at the lag, when this same exact thing has happened every year we've had Mabar...the lag isn't new. It's not undocumented. Yet, we got the same laggy Mabar that we've had every year, without, as far as I can tell, any effort whatsoever to address this recurring problem. It's a rather prominent example of how Turbine has handled many other such things. It's frustrating, infuriating even.

Stop putting out the event if a solution hasn't be reached for the thing! Just stop.

GeoffWatson
10-28-2013, 03:40 PM
Disappointing.

I've managed to get some signets and scales on two of my characters, but the other characters have suffered failures due to lag. As the opening times have slowed to approx 4-6 hours it is very unlikely I'll be able to get the tomes, cloaks, and wraps I was planning on getting (was about 2 hours for the first few days).

Geoff.

EllisDee37
10-28-2013, 03:41 PM
Might as well just admit it Cordovan. You're closing it because of an exploit.I'm guessing it's because you don't need to pull the levers (or even have anyone at any levers) to kill the dragon.

Xaenith
10-28-2013, 03:42 PM
Cordovan, someone in another thread suggested that a big part of the lag issue may be tied to instance i2049 (I believe), saying that their interpretation of why that instance has long been known to have a high incidence of lag is that it's the first instance people go into for a lot of things on the server: the Cannith crafting hall, a lot of raids, Mabar, and some other things...so it's getting the brunt of the load until it's full, at which point people get pushed into i2050 (or 1050 or whatever), etc... Since 49 is the one that fills first, and has so many disparate parts of the game all in there, it's most prone to lag during busy hours.

Is there any way to further compartmentalize the instancing across the game to better distribute this load? At the very least, find a way to wall off Mabar from the entire rest of the game, so people who aren't even interested in playing in the graveyard aren't having their game experience ruined as well. It's ridiculous that you (the Devs) are announcing the early closure of Mabar due to the forum outrage at the lag, when this same exact thing has happened every year we've had Mabar...the lag isn't new. It's not undocumented. Yet, we got the same laggy Mabar that we've had every year, without, as far as I can tell, any effort whatsoever to address this recurring problem. It's a rather prominent example of how Turbine has handled many other such things. It's frustrating, infuriating even.

Stop putting out the event if a solution hasn't be reached for the thing! Just stop.

I have to agree with the people who suspect it is being closed because of an exploit. Makes no sense to close it just because of lag complaints.

schelsullivan
10-28-2013, 03:43 PM
We've been fighting the "lag" bug or what ever every day so far, dedicating all our play time struggling through the problems in hopes of getting the tomes. Now the time invested so far feels like its going down the drain! Each of my toons has at least 1 signet, but you've just dashed my hopes of getting 2 more before its over! Unless theres a make up week coming soon, I'm going to feel really disappointed.

Ryiah
10-28-2013, 03:46 PM
I'm guessing it's because you don't need to pull the levers (or even have anyone at any levers) to kill the dragon.

No, this one is more serious and involves obtaining multiple once per character items on the same character.

FestusHood
10-28-2013, 03:46 PM
I'm guessing it's because you don't need to pull the levers (or even have anyone at any levers) to kill the dragon.

I think that's always been the case. The light just makes the dragon easier to kill. Not having the light on doesn't make it invulnerable. Sort of like dr. It's better if you can break it, but you don't have to.

Darkrok
10-28-2013, 03:46 PM
What about those that haven't had (for whatever reason) a chance to get their signets? 11 days is a lot of time to lose potential signets from...

I'm not privy to Turbine's reasoning. Some people here have suggested that it's an exploit involved...honestly though it could just as easily be the tone on the forums. When you have 9 to 1 people in threads on the forums practically begging Turbine to shut down Mabar what do you think they're going to do? This is one time they can make their customers happy simple by shutting down a feature? That's a no-brainer for them. I think we can chalk this one up in the 'be careful what you wish for' category.

Avenging_Angel
10-28-2013, 03:50 PM
This is strange.

Mabar was laggy last year. Mabar has always had performance issues, and yet you decided to push it out anyway. Now you decided to close it in advance to fix it? Why pull back now?

Xaenith
10-28-2013, 03:50 PM
No, this one is more serious and involves obtaining multiple once per character items on the same character.

FWIW, I know some people tested and confirmed this bug when Mabar was on Lam.

Ravand
10-28-2013, 03:51 PM
This is too bad. On one hand, the lag was fail-terrible on three of my seven runs this weekend, and there needs to be a fix. And by fail-terrible, I mean the toons couldn't even walk/cast/swing, and this was before the dragon appeared, AoEs were cast, or levers were pulled.

On the other hand, pulling the event and then not allowing a make up after the fix is disappointing. I farmed Mabar pretty hard this weekend (for the time I was able to play), but a lot of my guildies were taking advantage of the +25% XP weekend. This leaves those that wanted to participate, based on the published schedule, in the lurch.

EllisDee37
10-28-2013, 03:52 PM
I think that's always been the case. The light just makes the dragon easier to kill. Not having the light on doesn't make it invulnerable. Sort of like dr. It's better if you can break it, but you don't have to.I think you're right.

I suspect it's been this way ever since the "DR pass" (or whatever you want to call it) that I think went live with MotU. Another example is the ghostly skeletons in Delera's. They used to be virtually undamageable if you didn't break good dr; weapon damages always showed as yellow 0s. Now they just have like DR 5/good or something else trivial. Pretty sure this change went into effect with MotU, but not positive.

Calleia
10-28-2013, 03:56 PM
if Mabar is not coming back this year and as not everyone got all day to farm (yeah, some people have a so called real-life. not very common but...) maybe you can change the fact of just getting one signet a day?

portcityguy
10-28-2013, 03:58 PM
Why kill it Friday morning? It's not like you guys are gonna work on it over the weekend. Why not leave it up through Sunday night, and take it down early Monday morning when you come back to work?

karl_k0ch
10-28-2013, 03:58 PM
This is bad news. I feel like I'm betatesting bananas.

Let's hope I'll be able to collect a tome on all toons I planned to do so.

PNellesen
10-28-2013, 03:59 PM
Gotta say that, while I understand why it's being closed, and really can't disagree with the decision, I'm really disappointed. I've been trying since Thursday to get successful 26-30 runs in, and have so far only been able to do one (out of maybe 10 or so attempts, all the fails due to lag.) Otoh, my <25 characters have all been able to have successful runs, and 3 of them have tomes already.

I'll go ahead and ask even though we know the answer - how about make the signets or the tomes BtA? I'm confident I can get multiple <20 runs in before the 31st. I'm not at all confident I can get >=20 (and ESPECIALLY >=26) runs in...

ImanCarrot
10-28-2013, 04:00 PM
Definitely the right decision, it was unplayable..

Thar
10-28-2013, 04:00 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

can we all get a free signet for the closing and lag issues? :) Hey can't hurt to ask.

Cauthey_No_CCInfo
10-28-2013, 04:02 PM
What happened to "Don't worry people, Mabar will be around long enough for you to get the Signets you need."
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.


is it gone till next year or do you plan on bringing it back at a later time this year?
We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

Read:

http://blog.themistrading.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/lucy.jpg


Honestly - how effing long have you been aware of these "bugs" and "performance issues?" We, the players, tell you about these issues every single year.

Get us all excited about signets, tomes, and Festival Solar, and then yank it all away from us. And you wonder why your player community is acid, prone to not believe you, and frequently yell "doom."

I hope that I get enough time to get enough Dragon completions in, what with real life, and all.

TheylostmyID
10-28-2013, 04:05 PM
I don't usually suggest things like this, but there's always exceptions.

For those of us that haven't been able to play much due to RL and work, this is very disappointing. We will not have a chance to earn any of the new shinies introduced this year.

It would be a nice token (of goodwill, call it) for Turbine to give 3 signet stones to the first character to log in on each account after the event closes early. We are going to miss out on the opportunity to earn 11 signets. This would, at least, allow those of us who cannot play before the weekend a chance to get some loot.

Vellrad
10-28-2013, 04:05 PM
When lag is failing 60%+ of the runs, it is rather difficult to get signets.

Having 60% fails because of lag is better than having 0 succeses because of closed event.

I'd prefer to have even open with insane lag than closed because of it.

oradafu
10-28-2013, 04:05 PM
can we all get a free signet for the closing and lag issues? :) Hey can't hurt to ask.

Closing it 11 days early for 1 signet? I don't know, that's 11 potentially signets for die-hard mabar players and maybe 2 to 4 for casual players. Seems to me that 2 signets per character that participated in Mabar this would be a bit more fair.

Cauthey_No_CCInfo
10-28-2013, 04:06 PM
Having 60% fails because of lag is better than having 0 succeses because of closed event.

I'd prefer to have even open with insane lag than closed because of it.

^^ This.

I have not had any issues in any of the less than level 26+ instances.

Arianka
10-28-2013, 04:09 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.
Any chance u can leave the turn in guys up a while longer after u close the event like you let the jester stick around so us stragglers can turn in our stuff? my gaming pc died and i havent been able to log on for afew days and i would like to be abel to turn in my stuff after my pc gets' fixed.

Vengenance
10-28-2013, 04:12 PM
The reason is that some things that are described as "lag" may well be non-lag-related bugs or other performance issues, rather than issues related to the more traditional definitions of lag. We are well aware of the performance issues reported with Mabar this weekend.

Turbine should be embarrassed for even releasing this ****. This is by far the worst event ever put on by Turbine. The content is cool, but the implementation is garbage. If my company released something this bad someone would be fired. If your trying to get people to finally quit the game then between the last release and this event you're doing a great job.

wiliamsane
10-28-2013, 04:15 PM
I can bet that most of these "dragon lags" are caused by famous instances 2049 and 2050. This legend about these doomed instances is here since i have started playing and it is still here.. Every time i have monster lags i check instance and ta-daa 2049 or 2050 , not only mabar , but many many ordinary quests and when i check it it is usually almost finished quest and too late (failed thanks to this)

Thanks to closing mabar so soon i have no chance to get tomes or augments i wanted during work days .. Thank you Turbine , thank you !

Substitutename
10-28-2013, 04:15 PM
Another constant lag-failure player reporting in. I fail every other dragon run due to no one being able to move as soon as the fight starts, and staying lagged until an altar is destroyed and we all get ported out. I died once and got ejected early and lost my key even.

I've managed to get a tome on one toon, 2 signets on a 2nd, and 1 on a 3rd, and I have a few more that I had planned to work on, back when the available time went up to November 11th or whatever. Now suddenly it looks like I'll be racing just to complete the 2nd and 3rd toon. Even more difficult is the fact that most of my play time is late-night (as far as the US is concerned,) and I only get to see about 1 or 2 dragons a night until my weekend, thanks to the ludicrous amount of turn-ins required. It works ok for prime-time, but not even close for late night.

I do believe that I should receive some kind of compensation for repeatedly attempting the event and having a little over 50% failure rate due to server-side issues, "losing" a key, and being told, in an official capacity, that I would have til November 11th to work on getting what I wanted from the event, and I'm suddenly being robbed of almost two weeks with only a few days notice.

That last point could be handled by simply having an encore event for a couple weeks a bit later, but I believe the other issues I have had deserve some kind of correction.

Impaqt
10-28-2013, 04:17 PM
Having 60% fails because of lag is better than having 0 succeses because of closed event.

I'd prefer to have even open with insane lag than closed because of it.

Totally Disagree.

Wasting 60% of my time is far worse than wasting 0% of it.

Looting_Bin
10-28-2013, 04:21 PM
When lag is failing 60%+ of the runs, it is rather difficult to get signets.

seriously what game are you playing yeah its bad lag and sometimes it gets you killed but i havent failed a single spectral from lag since it started. keep in mind im not only refering to lvl 20+ either ive done 5 runs at 8th lvl and idk how many now at 20+... maby you should make sure to follow the lag rules of ddo. I know this may sound strange but dont use a bunch of summons or aoe persistent spells. dismiss your companion and followers if your druid or arty. and a real simple one is DONT HIT LIGHT LEVER IF DRAGON ISNT THERE. as long as light is on you summon gargoyles so let it go off 75% of the time the dragon isnt in your room... I seriously doubt you are failing 60% and im succeeding 100% on 5 different toons. any ways that being said to the exaggerator. it is bad lag though. but i would rather deal with it and get my signets than not get them.

Vengenance
10-28-2013, 04:21 PM
It is unfortunate so many vocal few, let's call them the 'tea...err Mabar party' had to shout and whine and scream to close the event. Well turbine went and closed it, ruining it for the rest of us who were enjoying the government, errrr mabar, services. I would rather have played a fun festival with a 25% lag fail rate then no festival at all. While I have been able to get tomes for most characters I will not be able to get the augments or cosmetics I wanted now. Another case of the vocal minority ruining it for the larger, silent population that was enjoying the event and taking things in stride. Too bad but it looks like the forums got exactly what they wanted.

A 25% failure rate would be bad but acceptable. The problem is the rate is much higher for the vast majority. I ran 8 times yesterday and 6 were lag wipes. Not real failures but the whole party frozen and then suddenly dead. Maybe you're one of the lucky few to get lag free instances, but the vast majority of the folks I ran with yesterday had similar experiences if not worse than my own. I believe sir, your experience is the exception, not the rule.

Looting_Bin
10-28-2013, 04:26 PM
It is unfortunate so many vocal few, let's call them the 'tea...err Mabar party' had to shout and whine and scream to close the event. Well turbine went and closed it, ruining it for the rest of us who were enjoying the government, errrr mabar, services. I would rather have played a fun festival with a 25% lag fail rate then no festival at all. While I have been able to get tomes for most characters I will not be able to get the augments or cosmetics I wanted now. Another case of the vocal minority ruining it for the larger, silent population that was enjoying the event and taking things in stride. Too bad but it looks like the forums got exactly what they wanted.

signed

XxJFGxX
10-28-2013, 04:26 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! Ha ha ha! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to make people panic and grind mindlessly to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year. ;D

Thought I fix that for ya....

Belgarath22
10-28-2013, 04:27 PM
Totally Disagree.

Wasting 60% of my time is far worse than wasting 0% of it.

Totally disagree with that; you can also waste 0% of your time while the event is active... Just asume you won`t get any signet and don`t join to the event.. It is your time, you can do anything you want with it...

Dave_Rapp
10-28-2013, 04:27 PM
A 25% failure rate would be bad but acceptable. The problem is the rate is much higher for the vast majority. I ran 8 times yesterday and 6 were lag wipes. Not real failures but the whole party frozen and then suddenly dead. Maybe you're one of the lucky few to get lag free instances, but the vast majority of the folks I ran with yesterday had similar experiences if not worse than my own. I believe sir, your experience is the exception, not the rule.


vast majority

citation needed

XxJFGxX
10-28-2013, 04:27 PM
And the devs wonder why people are quitting this game more and more...

Looting_Bin
10-28-2013, 04:27 PM
A 25% failure rate would be bad but acceptable. The problem is the rate is much higher for the vast majority. I ran 8 times yesterday and 6 were lag wipes. Not real failures but the whole party frozen and then suddenly dead. Maybe you're one of the lucky few to get lag free instances, but the vast majority of the folks I ran with yesterday had similar experiences if not worse than my own. I believe sir, your experience is the exception, not the rule.

its like you didnt understand what buffy was saying... you are the exception... not buffy

Dven
10-28-2013, 04:28 PM
Could you at least reduce the # of turn ins. At least then we get more failure attempts in on the off chance

Grahson
10-28-2013, 04:33 PM
Ya know my wife plans time off work for this every year. You announced that it would be open till the 11th. The time she took off is next week to play. We've both been vip's for going on three years and this game continues to get worse every year! Thanks very much for the shaft Turbine.

Shmuel
10-28-2013, 04:33 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.



So, just to be clear, because I want to add this to my list of pros and cons:

It is broken. You are not planning to fix it, you are just shutting it down. Is this correct?

Is there any reason that it is not going to be fixed other than "the dollar cost in manpower and/or new hardware is not something we are willing to invest in DDO"?

Vellrad
10-28-2013, 04:37 PM
Totally Disagree.

Wasting 60% of my time is far worse than wasting 0% of it.

Then tell me:

Who the hell forces you to go there!?

You can ignore even right now, wasting 0% of your time.

Closing event earlier benefits noone.

Grahson
10-28-2013, 04:37 PM
Sorry! things change what kind of **** is that?

crymeariver
10-28-2013, 04:38 PM
Not sure if it's been noted anywhere since I don't follow the forums religiously but I have experienced about a 50% success rate. All of the fails were related to what I describe as "lag". Everything was ok until the dragon spawned and then boom, couldn't move, jerky movement, and the like. When AI caught up, you are mysteriously dead (never saw the attack) or booted out. I also noticed all of my runs have been in i2049 and 2050 (the crafting instances) but as I stated earlier, it's been 50/50 so I cannot pinpoint that as a reason for the failures. I am one of those that posted somewhere that this needs to be shut down and fixed and I appreciate that although I may not get what I was looking for this year, I can hopefully look forward to a better experience next time. The level instances were well done and that is greatly appreciated. Now I am off to see if I can get 2 more signets before it closes for the year.

Thrudh
10-28-2013, 04:38 PM
nm.

I vote to keep it open... but either way is fine with me

TBot1234
10-28-2013, 04:39 PM
Sorry! things change what kind of **** is that?

That would be reality ****.

Get used to it; reality will be with us for the foreseeable future.

Impaqt
10-28-2013, 04:42 PM
Then tell me:

Who the hell forces you to go there!?

You can ignore even right now, wasting 0% of your time.

Closing event earlier benefits noone.

Its the only place in the game with a Better than reasonable chance to obtain a +5 tome.

They should fix it.

and if that means close it early this year and FIX it sometime before next. I'm OK with that.

Closing it Benefits Everyone who has had time wasted and will continue to have their time wasted.

I will continue to run it over the next 4 days. I will have more failures and I will become more frustrated.

Seriously though. by the 31st, the majority of the powergamers will of had their fill anyway and opening would of gotten fewer and further between.

But like I said earlier. I think it would be a great gesture to provide some Signets for folks.

Ykt
10-28-2013, 04:44 PM
The Loud People on the forums win again, Turbine is meeting their demands.

I guess spamming threads about Mabar is not against forum guildelines.

Faltout
10-28-2013, 04:48 PM
By the way, those saying that they had no success should also post their level and their playtime.

Been playing at 20-25. Mostly success (13 done - 2 lag-failed - 1 not enough people). Both lag failures were between 21-1 GMT (17-21 EST). Also, both lag failures had people that cast disco balls, acid clouds, firewalls etc. Also, poeple liked to pull the levers no matter what. Finally, many people were not even reading the general chat (where those instructions were being repeated over and over).

I noticed that level 26+ instances tended to fail A LOT. Don't know why, since I didn't play in them. But be aware that just like a dragon event lagged our shroud and spinner of shadows, it could lag other chamber instances. So people saying that "we used no AOE, pulled levers right etc. and still got lag" should ask if the other instances were doing the same thing or maybe someone was screwing up.

Some people based their use of AOE on "I used AOE before and had no lag. It's not because of the AOEs.". Maybe the number of AOEs was insufficient to cause crippling lag, or you could be right. BUT: Better safe than sorry. Since there's a belief that this is the common cause, why not follow the instructions and not use it. There are a lot of better spells that you could use instead. How about a maximized fireball? Divines, is really BB THAT necessary? Why not cometfall, flamestrike, implosion... And maybe sunburst for those that have it to blind them.

erystelle1972
10-28-2013, 04:48 PM
Disappointing.

I've managed to get some signets and scales on two of my characters, but the other characters have suffered failures due to lag. As the opening times have slowed to approx 4-6 hours it is very unlikely I'll be able to get the tomes, cloaks, and wraps I was planning on getting (was about 2 hours for the first few days).

Geoff.

I have had time to work on two of the 10 or so toons that I wanted to work into the event. I guess I will keep working on a few that I was focusing on in the time left.

Buffyanne
10-28-2013, 04:49 PM
I have 16 completes out of 22 runs. for a 73% success rate the rest being lag fails. Two runs I did not count in the statistics one where I was only one of 4 characters in the zone so we couldn't realistically complete and one where a player intentionally caused a fail. Breakdowns of levels....

26-28: 8/11
20-25: 4/5
16-20: 4/6

I understand this is my sample size, but at least they are actual numbers not vagaries that people speak about. Adjusting my lag fail rate plus or minus 5% I figure the fail rate is right around 25%. While of course I would like no lag fail rate, this is acceptable to being unable to play at all. And if you find the rate unacceptable you don't have to do it, just because you don't want to do it doesn't mean the rest of us want it scraped.

locus
10-28-2013, 04:49 PM
It's not just unplayable due to lag :( I've had instances where it would take my key, kick me out, take a SECOND key to let me in and then not give signets on successful completion (on chars that hadn't done the run that day or iN DAYS). :/

SeaWolf925
10-28-2013, 04:50 PM
Really liked the reward options this year. Did not participate last year as I felt the difference between lvl 20 cloak and lvl 24 was insignificant. I was running about a 50% failure rate due to lag, after everyone starting dismissing pets and limiting aoes my success rate is 9 out of 10 regardless of level. The other thing that we do is wait at least half a minute before entering. I am disappointed that event is closing early as I planned my participation to the announced date that the event would be open. Please fix and bring back event prior to next year. You might also consider as opposed to closing event Friday morning, closing it on Monday morning instead.

swadesblynx
10-28-2013, 04:51 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

sorry to hear that this event is closing early. however, if that is what it takes to make it better in the future then i must agree with this decision. hopefully, all will run smoother next time and many thanks to the team that handles this event. looking forward to playing in this event next time. :)

Jon_Irenicus
10-28-2013, 04:52 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

This is unfair to other players.
For example, i ran the quest 9 times and i never succeeded!
I went through all this trouble to get a single signet but i failed. You should give 1 signet for every failure due to lag as it is very unfair to people like me.

Vellrad
10-28-2013, 04:55 PM
sorry to hear that this event is closing early. however, if that is what it takes to make it better in the future then i must agree with this decision. hopefully, all will run smoother next time and many thanks to the team that handles this event. looking forward to playing in this event next time. :)

One week earlier closure won't change anything. If they're going to change anything, extra 7 days on top of 365 day til the next mabar is drop in the bucket.

Shmuel
10-28-2013, 04:55 PM
sorry to hear that this event is closing early. however, if that is what it takes to make it better in the future then i must agree with this decision. hopefully, all will run smoother next time and many thanks to the team that handles this event. looking forward to playing in this event next time. :)

If that were true I would agree, but there is no way, based on past evidence, that they are going to do what it takes to make it better in the future. All past evidence suggests they will spend a negligible amount of time looking at it and decide that resolving the issue is more effort than they are willing to put in. Next year if they have it at all they will try some half-arsed behind the scenes thing to say they did something to make it better, and that will not work. Then they will throw their hands in the air and say "we need to investigate to see how to avoid this for the future".

That is all assuming this game even exists a year from now, which if current trends in development and player satisfaction persist, is very debatable.

RedOrm
10-28-2013, 04:57 PM
I failed four runs on Friday (all on my level 26 toon, all failed due to lag), then had 4 successful runs on Saturday (on 4 different toons, levels 26,24, 16 and 15), 2 more on Sunday (real life preventing more runs), and another 3 runs today (Monday), all successful. So: 4 fails vs 9 successes. Yes, I would also want the event to stay open for those that want to attempt it, at the very least till Monday after the weekend! Please?

Greetz,
Red Orm

Terebinthia
10-28-2013, 04:58 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Hi Cordovan,

Frustrating. I work from home and was planning to slowly drip feed my toons through.

A couple of suggestions to ameliorate player rage:

1. Please can we have the collectable turn in rates reduced to speed up the dragons? It is taking several hours to spawn one off peak from prime time US, even on a relatively populated server like Khyber. I feel for the folks on Wayfinder. Certainly from my perspective the instance opening feels a lot less regular than Cove, and there are fewer opportunities to do other things apart from camp the same few spawns in the Delera's instance, particularly as mobs AFAIK don't count to the monster manual.

2. You have folk taking time off for a scheduled event, plus folk taking advantage of the XP bonus secure ( they thought!) in the knowledge that they can farm later. I do think a helping hand of some kind on the signet front is more than appropriate here.

To chime in with player experience. I am based in the UK so play earlier than US prime time. I had two fails to lag on Saturday, one success, and two successes off peak today (although success 1 was extremely hard work as it was about 5 am EST and there were only 12 players in the instance). This is in the 20 - 25 range.

Book_O_Dragons
10-28-2013, 05:01 PM
My big gripe is instances where there aren't enough players to complete and what happens when multiple raid parties enter the same instance. Trying to have 4-5 raid parties in 1 instance + mobs to fight is a recipe for lag. Even if this lag is on our side the server is grouping all of them together with the first member to enter the chamber. I like this functionality but there needs to be a hard and fast limit to players in an instance of the chamber include all party members of players entering the instance when the first party member enters. This will also help my other gripe which is entering the chamber after the initial rush without a party by letting more empty slots be filled by solo players later on.

jskinner937
10-28-2013, 05:02 PM
I read somewhere before that invis'ing the altars might contribute to crippling lag. I can honestly say that every instance I have been in where this has been done has resulted in crippling lag. Something to look into.

Personally, I would prefer to make this a simple 12 person raid with a 1 hour timer per char. This would appease more of an audience and might more evenly distribute the server query. Shouldn't be too hard to modify the mob spawns and dragon HPs so that it could be 1 person per lever and 2 people per altar.

Another option would be to leave the traders there and the wilderness and just close the spectral dragon until Nov 11th. Then just let each char talk to lantern Joe and get a free signet and spectral dragon scale once per char per day. This might be a nice concession.

xPhoxhoundx
10-28-2013, 05:03 PM
Uh oh turbine, the natives are restless because you boned them again!

Maelwyn
10-28-2013, 05:05 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Thanks Jerry.

The right decision isn't always easy, but I'm glad that Mabar will be closing down. There is definitely something broken with the summon chamber dragon fight/gargoyle spawns. What it is exactly Turbine should figure out and fix. Then bring Mabar back for an extended time, working smoothly. If Turbine can't fix what's broken, then offer us some kind of Mabar cake or item to compensate for the frustration so many players have had to go through while participating in this event. It should be fun, with high success rates, not frustrating due to high failure rates and lag issues.

voodoogroves
10-28-2013, 05:07 PM
Well, I see this as both good and bad.

Bad, in that there's less time for people who want to do so to participate. Good, in the fact that when I'm not *IN* Mabar, I'm still seeing occasional near-crippling full-on-party lag spells. We generally joke "Dragon must be up!" and check the LFM panel ... but they are pretty harsh little spikes.

drathdragon
10-28-2013, 05:11 PM
What about a CrystalCove MABAR version ?

Or better, for the next year, what about a totally new location for mabar ?
Would be better to create something totally different.

ohh well.. i don't dare to hope anymore at this point.. -_- i feel sad

btolson
10-28-2013, 05:11 PM
Honestly, just release a version of mabar where the gargoyle spawns are reduced by 75% or more and see if it solves the issue. If you guys were going to discover the problem through investigation you'd have figured it out years ago. It's time to experiment and see what works.

DelverRootnose1
10-28-2013, 05:16 PM
....actively trying to kill this game off. Because if I didn't know any better that is what I would have to assume by your behavior.

herigor
10-28-2013, 05:19 PM
Honestly, just release a version of mabar where the gargoyle spawns are reduced by 75% or more and see if it solves the issue. If you guys were going to discover the problem through investigation you'd have figured it out years ago. It's time to experiment and see what works.

Gargoyles are not the problem.

The instances I have been in where people have NOT summoned or used pets, plus kept off spamming AOE spells, everything has been just happy and dandy.

doawithlife
10-28-2013, 05:21 PM
If my tablet can handle DDO in the chamber and not crash(5 Epic lvl instances). A lot of the crashes and non-server lag must be driver/hardware related.
When the server lags I can still cast my spells and stuff if I am patient(no ae spells but primal scream, casting AE at this point is just silly). Cast one spell, then wait until the sp are actually subtracted and then cast the next. I seem to be able to melee freely, if I am in reach of a mob (since movement is super slow when the server lags).

Anyrate, I would prefer a buggy Mabar that takes patience then no Mabar at all. I still need at least 5 signets.
(Surface Pro if curious, not an Edge Pro - only Intel HD4000 graphics)

A solution I have done today with a group. Wait 5 minutes to enter the chamber and get a new instance for the dragon. Then both instances are lag free.

jskinner937
10-28-2013, 05:23 PM
Gargoyles are not the problem.

The instances I have been in where people have NOT summoned or used pets, plus kept off spamming AOE spells, everything has been just happy and dandy.

AOEs have nothing to do with it. It definitely related to a mechanic with the dragon and gargoyles. Because it happens right when they spawn, not before or after.

Faltout
10-28-2013, 05:24 PM
AOEs have nothing to do with it. It definitely related to a mechanic with the dragon and gargoyles. Because it happens right when they spawn, not before or after.
How about mobs interacting with AOEs?

Powskier
10-28-2013, 05:28 PM
i didnt even think to check that!,what a rip off...glad i read it,though...i woulda wasted alot of time(and was about to)

SirShen
10-28-2013, 05:29 PM
PLEASE lower the amount of turn-ins to 5000.

Powskier
10-28-2013, 05:33 PM
AOEs have nothing to do with it. It definitely related to a mechanic with the dragon and gargoyles. Because it happens right when they spawn, not before or after.

not so sure there; I passed a few cloudkill spells in slayer area ,and Lag was signifigant...I was in low population area w no lag ,xcept around the spellcaster/ also curious if levers are getting pulled by gargoyles smtimes ,creating xtra spawns when repulled?

nibel
10-28-2013, 05:37 PM
Another example is the ghostly skeletons in Delera's. They used to be virtually undamageable if you didn't break good dr; weapon damages always showed as yellow 0s. Now they just have like DR 5/good or something else trivial. Pretty sure this change went into effect with MotU, but not positive.

They still have DR 100/Good. However it kinda scales with difficulty. I found this out when I tried to find DR numbers to fill the wiki with my low-DPS toon (because she is sturdy).

On Normal, DR never blocks more than 50% of your damage (Exception: Gargoyle's stone form and Xyzzy). So, if a mob have DR 30/Silver, and your blow deal 10 damage, you get on the log that you dealt 5 damage after 5 was blocked. So, if you want to find the proper DR number of a mob on Normal, you need to hit him for more than double his DR in one hit.

On Hard, DR never blocks more than 75% of your damage. So, if a mob have DR 20/Silver, and your blow deal 15 damage, you get on the log that you dealt 5 damage after 10 was blocked. So, if you want to find the proper DR number of a mob on Hard, you need to hit him for 125% of their DR value.

On Elite, DR always block full.

Buddha5440
10-28-2013, 05:40 PM
So, once more the "fix" to a problem with the game is simply to disable the feature.

Way to go - again.



Try designing and managing a game that has millions of players, then you can criticize. They are in a NO WIN situation, whatever they do will **** of some of the people.

Shut it down early...I can't get enough Signets.
Keep it running...There's too much LAG
Apply an update...They always take it down when I can play
They don't apply an update...There's more to life than MMORPG's and "Social" Media (This applies to all of the above).

Slugnutty
10-28-2013, 05:42 PM
Hard to believe Mabar is laggy and not working right.
Who knew?

Mattimeo_the_Sorcere
10-28-2013, 05:44 PM
Love the quotes around the word "lag." Let me find out Turbine devs took a +1 tome in shade-throwing, LOL.

Way to undermine your own player-base by doing so, too.

Trerro
10-28-2013, 05:49 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

So I grab otherwise next to useless handwraps to speed up mote farming, then get a reply of "Surprise! We're slicing almost 2 weeks off of the event and you don't get a day off from work before we pull the plug!"

Awesome job guys.

Buddha5440
10-28-2013, 05:52 PM
As soon as you get in to the Summoning Chamber, let everyone know that AoE spells are NOT a good idea. Apply Invis to all the altars (Mass Invis), Summons, much like AoE's, cause LAG. Any decent group, at lv, should have no problems with the Gargoyles, if you do, you need to reconsider your choices. Let people know when the dragon comes into your altar chamber so they can hit the switch (should not be on otherwise). Kill it and stop *****ing.

Kingault
10-28-2013, 05:54 PM
Aw, now I won't be able to get a tome along with 2 of those vampire augments, as I started two days late.
Thanks, though, for the info.

StolenMoon
10-28-2013, 05:59 PM
I love DDO! BUT I PAY for DDO. I accept that there will be "bugs" in the system as new features and quests are added. I am perplexed and insulted by the terminology i.e. "lag"-related issues coined in the explanation for why Mabar is closing early. Is there a person or tribunal of people that decide what is "real" and what is not? Fix it for Christ's sake! Do what is necessary to fix the problem. FIX THE PROBLEM RATHER THAN PURPORTING THAT THE ISSUE ISN'T "REAL"!!

Loyalty is a two way concept.

Blind loyalty goes one way.

WE ARE NOT BLIND!!

You as a company must earn our loyalty or you will eventually cease as a functional company.

Dandonk
10-28-2013, 06:00 PM
Thank you for this, Turbine. It was frustrating to try and run normal stuff that got lagged to near failure many times because Mabar was up.

I hope you'll work on the event, fix it, and bring it back as soon as is possible, so that those who like Mabar can get their fun, too.

xberto
10-28-2013, 06:08 PM
The Loud People on the forums win again, Turbine is meeting their demands.

I guess spamming threads about Mabar is not against forum guildelines.

^
l
l
THIS

The Mabar instances seem pretty full. The people playing Mabar are not screaming in the forums. Too bad. I could use a few more days................... Oh well. The lag did suck but not as bad as the Loud People.

Memnir
10-28-2013, 06:08 PM
So... how many times will this make it that Mabar is going to be "fixed"?
I figured I'd use the quotes for the same reasons they bracket the word lag.

Hathorian
10-28-2013, 06:10 PM
Might be nice to give everyone 3 Signets.....

Or just bring back Crystal Cove with Mabar rewards!

Give people signets for doing nothing? I disagree. Everyone has a chance to get them still. I have 3 signets on 3 characters so far and hope to finish the 4th by tomorrow.

oradafu
10-28-2013, 06:15 PM
Give people signets for doing nothing? I disagree. Everyone has a chance to get them still. I have 3 signets on 3 characters so far and hope to finish the 4th by tomorrow.

Multiple failures after spending time farming the mats to open the dragon isn't nothing.

You might have a point if the dragon opened with no mat mechanism and the mats farming was just for making items. But the mat farming is tied to the opening of the dragon. The dragon doesn't just happen every 30 or 45 minutes, although that was my suggestion about the dragon since day one when Mabar became years ago.

Oxarhamar
10-28-2013, 06:22 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Good Riddance!

I really liked some of the rewards this year from the Tome to the Augments and Cosmetics.

Mabar has always had its share of problems.

starting with the shared instance slaying of undead to turn in and open the dragon instance. It boring there is no XP and the monsters STILL don't appear in Monster manual and of course LAG.

The Dragon instance has its own problems: Parties being split into random instances after farming in a raid group togeather for 2 hours to open the thing suddenly everyone is split up and forced to try to cooperate with new random individuals. Lag of course. and not sure if WAI or not but, if you die in the Dragon instance and are not Raised in a short time you are ejected from the instance KEY NOT RETURNED.

I'm sure there are more problems I'm missing.

PLEASE fix it before you bring it back again.

It is great to see Mabar getting updated shinnies but, lets focus on it working at all.

LadyKoneko
10-28-2013, 06:28 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.

We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.


I am so totally not surprised... First when warned about a critical bug ( imho the worst one ever to hit live) nothin is done.. accept fix it days/weeks after it hit live giving people 2 week bans.. then loggin in as the player to manually delete stuff.. to me that was the best.. even the lawful good pallies on the forums got upset. yet again when warned about buy back.. nothing was done untill bans were up... and then it was reban everyone for a crime you allowed b/c of typical turbine follow through. intead of a single 3 week ban.. you punish people for something they did more than 2 weeks ago.. and ill only allude to the tokens and occupy wayfinder...

but now you even forget about your own current TR dynamics.. or is it you finally acknowledge the game crippling lag that the event brings to all aspects of the game/sever?

edited for some bad cellphone typing..

shawnvw
10-28-2013, 06:28 PM
Give people signets for doing nothing? I disagree. Everyone has a chance to get them still. I have 3 signets on 3 characters so far and hope to finish the 4th by tomorrow.

Actually, a lot of people don't have the chance to get them; they can't spend the time during the week. It would have been nice if they could let Mabar run at least through the weekend, but I guarantee that Turbine considered that.

I agree that giving signets for 'doing nothing' seems unfair for those who've worked for them, but I understand the opposite view: I have one toon who really needs that +5, and I don't know if I can run the raid successfully three times by Thursday.

What other ways are there of earning signets? How about this: all Undead in every zone will continue to drop Motes for the next few months, and we can turn them in for Signets?

tammyaline
10-28-2013, 06:32 PM
Haven't had the chance to read all this but wouldn't it make sense for Turbine to open up Mabar to allow characters to get more than one signet a day?

I waited to grind these out cause I wanted the people farming right now to get what they need and move on ... now I have to grind with everyone else and fail over and over .... you were better off leaving it till Nov 11th!!

balvix
10-28-2013, 06:34 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

Thank you Cordovan for the info, it is nice to see something happening.

NXPlasmid
10-28-2013, 06:35 PM
Its the only place in the game with a Better than reasonable chance to obtain a +5 tome.

They should fix it.


That'll work. Just because Mabar has been 6 years of fail doesn't mean next year won't be different... or does it? T

Marcus-Hawkeye
10-28-2013, 06:39 PM
Bah... I was having fun too... ah well, I'll do more next year like usual.

EllisDee37
10-28-2013, 06:42 PM
Good riddance. Lag fail after lag fail. I'm grateful you're ending this torture early.

DefecTalisman
10-28-2013, 06:42 PM
Well what a crock of $#%@. I haven't been able to get the usual play hours in that I would maintain on a daily basis, but I have managed to come online at least once a day and run 1 Mabar each night. I have managed to get a Signet stone a day basically. I have not seen a single fail due to lag unlike previous years. I have a massive suspicion that the early closure is not for the mentioned reasons. The only obvious reason is the loss of profit from the DDO store due to people being able to acquire +5 tomes ingame without having to pay real money for them.

When will the BS stop? You have never stopped/closed anything for a just cause reason.
Thanks again DDO/Turbine for being devious and lying to your customers!

TheOnly_LightInDark
10-28-2013, 06:42 PM
1 Success
1 Success but got nothing due to being dead at completion
1 Lag Where dragon entered the room and nothing worked.

Lag when playing other quests so much so that Hirlings were more mentally ******** than usual, was a stuttering lag to let you know when the instances were opened.

This is annoying, was hoping that as time went by lag would decrease as number of players stopped running it, and I could get my signets now I never will cause I only really have time in the weekends.

ahitcher
10-28-2013, 06:43 PM
The 24 hour wait after each time I get a signet really ****es ppl off. Run in hopes of success only to get nothing!

SirValentine
10-28-2013, 06:44 PM
...some things that are described as "lag" may well be non-lag-related bugs or other performance issues...


So, when I experience what I call "lag", can you explain to me the difference between whether it's what you call "lag" versus "other performance issues"?

And if my experience is the same both ways (LAG!), why do I care that you're drawing such a distinction?

Kamode_Corebasher
10-28-2013, 06:49 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

Do what you can to get staff to work on this now....this week while it's still up. Maybe get it going on Lammania today? If you put it off, it will be forgotten...AGAIN. Then next year after it's code is no longer fresh and almost forgotten, a couple members of the DDO staff will get thrown under the bus and nothing will get changed or fixed to any degree of good. IT's fresh now....your staff is negatively motivated NOW. Please work it now. Same request for Crystal Cove!

Vellrad
10-28-2013, 06:49 PM
Good riddance. Lag fail after lag fail. I'm grateful you're ending this torture early.

Why didn't you ended your torture earlier by not going there?

AnubisPrime
10-28-2013, 06:50 PM
I agree on ending it early. Carrying it on for another two weeks in its current state is like dangling a carrot for the donkey to walk.

My experienced success rate is about 30-40%. Some have done better some have done worse.

I'm just going to hold onto my signets until next year.

EllisDee37
10-28-2013, 06:51 PM
Why didn't you ended your torture earlier by not going there?Because it's the easiest way to get +5 tomes outside of the store. While the option is available, I WILL stubbornly try to get them on the alts that could use them.

Really, this isn't hard to understand.

Vellrad
10-28-2013, 06:54 PM
Because it's the easiest way to get +5 tomes outside of the store. While the option is available, I WILL stubbornly try to get them on the alts that could use them.

Really, this isn't hard to understand.

So you wanted to +5 tome, and you cheer at the only reasonable option to aquire it removed from game for about 365 days.

Really, this isn't hard to understand at all.

Arnhelm
10-28-2013, 06:54 PM
I feel sad at hearing this. I had hoped for a longer time to leisurely farm for what I want to accomplish this year. Because of the shortened date, I'll change my plans and hit it hard until Friday.

AnubisPrime
10-28-2013, 06:57 PM
I feel sad at hearing this. I had hoped for a longer time to leisurely farm for what I want to accomplish this year. Because of the shortened date, I'll change my plans and hit it hard until Friday.

More people will probably do this, so there will be at least more opportunities to try.

Logic
10-28-2013, 07:05 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Thanks. That's the right thing to do.

The10man
10-28-2013, 07:19 PM
I feel sad at hearing this. I had hoped for a longer time to leisurely farm for what I want to accomplish this year. Because of the shortened date, I'll change my plans and hit it hard until Friday.

Played around for over an hour for the 5000 turn-ins needed to get done, then complete LAG OUT caused a failure, AND Key was not returned as promised! Glad it was a looted key because I would be even more ticked off if I had bought it. Was hoping to get a tome and wraps for my monk, but it appears that is a pipe dream now. I am a key short unless I loot another one (NO WAY am I wasting points!) and don't have the time to wait around for hours for a LAG OUT to maybe not happen. Dear God devs seriously!!! THIS is an event???? Happy Halloween my arse!

Alrik_Fassbauer
10-28-2013, 07:25 PM
How does one get those signets, after all ?

I did the spectral chamber now, got a screen message to get a signet - but in my inventory there arrived none. And it was already full. All I got were at least 2 dragon scales, which is still very nice.

Are the signets only for a special level ? Because I did it with my level 13 Cleric.

Trillea
10-28-2013, 07:28 PM
How does one get those signets, after all ?

I did the spectral chamber now, got a screen message to get a signet - but in my inventory there arrived none. And it was already full. All I got were at least 2 dragon scales, which is still very nice.

Are the signets only for a special level ? Because I did it with my level 13 Cleric.

Check your red and green bags. It probably went in there.

HedgeHogShadow
10-28-2013, 07:28 PM
How does one get those signets, after all ?

I did the spectral chamber now, got a screen message to get a signet - but in my inventory there arrived none. And it was already full. All I got were at least 2 dragon scales, which is still very nice.

Are the signets only for a special level ? Because I did it with my level 13 Cleric.

Check your collectible bags, the signet goes in there if its autocollect.

Terebinthia
10-28-2013, 07:34 PM
Check your collectible bags, the signet goes in there if its autocollect.

From memory, I think it is an ingredient (green bag). The rest are collectables IIRC though.

Zoogar
10-28-2013, 07:35 PM
Here are a few suggestions:

It seem there is a lot less undead in the higher levels and more of those new character class, these should be a balanced number or more undead! It is an graveyard after all.
When you die and you get booted that just seems wrong. I have been on runs where the other players can not see that you have died.
When I have failed due to the massive amount of lag, I never get my keys back.
There is a bug sometimes when you try to enter you get put back in the graveyard and you lose a key. I have lost one I got with DDO points. I was not happy about that.
I think I killed about 5 red names all by myself and nothing drop, seem the drop rate is very low this round.

That is all I can think of right now. :)

MartinusWyllt
10-28-2013, 07:36 PM
...Dear God devs seriously!!! THIS is an event???? Happy Halloween my arse!

Well, to be fair, they have the "trick" part down pretty well.

Arlannis
10-28-2013, 07:40 PM
From memory, I think it is an ingredient (green bag). The rest are collectables IIRC though.
Yes, the Signets and the motes go in the green bag.

The opals, skulls, and bones go in the red bag. Think the rest do too, but that part's from memory.

Missing_Minds
10-28-2013, 07:48 PM
We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.
That I find to be unacceptable due to Turbine's failing to deliver.
If Turbine really wants more bad PR after their recent spat of bad PR, Turbine sure knows how to deliver.

I suggest 50% xp bonus and +2 loot for a week after Mabar ends.

I hope that management gets a clue.

Phaeton_Seraph
10-28-2013, 07:52 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

That's ridiculous.

From all reports, Mabar has always been awful with "lag." You haven't been able to fix it (perhaps 3 chambers and normal raid sized parties would work better instead of 16+ players?), in the years I've been running it. But it's only been partly awful with lag, in my personal experience.


Enough people do manage to get in and complete enough runs to make it worth keeping up. You advertised that it would be up, and you should keep your advertising promises. If you can't do that, why should any customer have any faith in your company or your product?



I don't mean to be hurtful here, but quality of product and customer satisfaction have not been Turbine's hallmark.

This seems more like a punishment for all the whiner's on the forums than an actual responsible response to customer dissatisfaction.


I will be cancelling my VIP subscription if you don't retract your early termination. I'll spend my TP, and then I'll move on.



And, NO, no one can haz my stuff!

TheGameDemon
10-28-2013, 08:08 PM
Why is lag in quotes? That makes it sound like you think lag isn't real. It is real, and most of it is on Turbine's side of the client-server divide.

Because they obviously don't know what lag means. This has been going on for years and they still have yet to fix this "issue" or "bug" as they would say. The players constantly tell them how to do their "jobs" by suggesting how to fix it, yet they are always "investigating" (doing nothing about if you don't want to use quotes) the lag issue.

Bolo_Grubb
10-28-2013, 08:09 PM
well this sucks. Many people I know myself included made plans to farm as much Mabar this coming weekend as possible. Now that is not going to happen.

If it is not bad enough to immediately then why not let it run until the original planned date?

This is just one more thing to **** people off.

Mikke
10-28-2013, 08:16 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Thank You Turbine! Sincerely this is the right course of action. The festivals are supposed to be 'fun' and what I've been experiencing is as far from fun as it gets. I've always said this is a game and it's true and people need to treat it as such BUT spending 1.5 hours or more to open an door only to have unplayable conditions is time "not well wasted" and and is outright frustrating. And then to do that repetitively in a day of playing..well OIY. You have DEFINITELY made the right call. The +5 tome is alot like that diagram of Lucy and Charlie brown that was posted earlier...as long as the ball(tome) is there, we're going to try and kick it :-) and become frustrated because we never get it. Absolutely the right call! Now I can focus on why I play the game..to make progress and have fun doing it!

Thank you for taking the ball away and bringing back the game!

DarrylTheRed
10-28-2013, 08:17 PM
I try not to get upset when the lag gets bad, to tell myself it's just a game, but the thing that kept me from becoming really frustrated when we lost a dragon event was the fact that I had 3 weekends to get the mere 6 signets I needed to buy what I wanted. I've gotten 2 and now they announce that they're closing things 2 weekends early. Many people are outraged by this in game and on the forums. Turbine should compensate everyone with some signets or something if they plan on ending the event 66.6% sooner than they had originally announced, then everyone who was swindled can get what they wanted.

dreddy
10-28-2013, 08:24 PM
Could we maybe nix the 24 hour wait timer on the Signets since we are losing so much time?

yynderjohn
10-28-2013, 08:25 PM
Wow, i purposely paced myself to enjoy the event and not grind, grind, grind for the +5 tomes since I assumed I had 2.5 weeeks to get it done. Thanks for the kick in nuts as usual Turbine!

HungarianRhapsody
10-28-2013, 08:28 PM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Closing Mabar because it's broken: bad.
Closing Mabar in order to fix it so that it won't be broken next time: VERY GOOD.

Mikke
10-28-2013, 08:31 PM
well this sucks. Many people I know myself included made plans to farm as much Mabar this coming weekend as possible. Now that is not going to happen.

If it is not bad enough to immediately then why not let it run until the original planned date?

This is just one more thing to **** people off.

Farming something when it works is fine but farming something that is soo 'lagged out' that you spend an hour an a half to get to and only to have you freeze for 10 mins and fail at is pure frustration. If you were planning on farming it this weekend and you haven't tried it yet. You might consider doing so before your scheduled weekend and then ask yourself, would you like to do that all weekend.
It does suck it getting closed earlier the scheduled agreed but it is alleviate a ton of stress/ aggravation from a lot of players that have already tried to 'farm' it and best of all it will save you from the same frustration.
TRUST ME I've been involved in 18 dragon runs of which I have only received 6 signets. Let me put that into time wise I have spend over 28 hours of playing of which 6 signets dropped...the other times was enter ..dragon appears....freeze for 5 to 10 mins and get my ethereal key back. Brother it is painful and I just realized I play too much :-)

I honestly feel that they need to pull the festival this year even though it does suck!

My two cents

Mikke
10-28-2013, 08:42 PM
Because it's the easiest way to get +5 tomes outside of the store. While the option is available, I WILL stubbornly try to get them on the alts that could use them.

Really, this isn't hard to understand.

Damn straight!(applauds EllisDee)

Bolo_Grubb
10-28-2013, 08:49 PM
Farming something when it works is fine but farming something that is soo 'lagged out' that you spend an hour an a half to get to and only to have you freeze for 10 mins and fail at is pure frustration. If you were planning on farming it this weekend and you haven't tried it yet. You might consider doing so before your scheduled weekend and then ask yourself, would you like to do that all weekend.
It does suck it getting closed earlier the scheduled agreed but it is alleviate a ton of stress/ aggravation from a lot of players that have already tried to 'farm' it and best of all it will save you from the same frustration.
TRUST ME I've been involved in 18 dragon runs of which I have only received 6 signets. Let me put that into time wise I have spend over 28 hours of playing of which 6 signets dropped...the other times was enter ..dragon appears....freeze for 5 to 10 mins and get my ethereal key back. Brother it is painful and I just realized I play too much :-)

I honestly feel that they need to pull the festival this year even though it does suck!

My two cents

I farmed it this last weekend and had about a 70% success rate. and yes some were do to lag (or what ever they are blaming it on). My point is if it is broke then shut it down. Immediately.

If it is good enough to run for 3 more days, then it is good enough to run the original planned run time. Giving many of us 3 more days during the work week is no good. Many of us will be lucky to attempt 3 more runs total.

and since they are saying that it will not be back this year, makes it sound like turbine is just giving up on it. Does not give me hope for the future of this game

Thrudh
10-28-2013, 09:00 PM
I will be cancelling my VIP subscription if you don't retract your early termination.

How many times a month do you threaten to cancel your VIP subscription?

Antheal
10-28-2013, 09:03 PM
We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Mabar WAS the inconvenience.

oldfatman
10-28-2013, 09:09 PM
So I skipped Mabar the last two years because I got everything I needed 3 years ago. Yay +5 tome, now I have a reason to do this. Hmm, lots of people whine and complain about "Lag" and Losing keys, definitely a buzz kill. So for me the worst part of this event is NOT the lag related wipes, but all the crying afterwards. So I was done with Mabar before the early closure was even announced.

Some food for thought though, everyone should be glad the SERVER DOES NOT CRASH! For those of you that are newer to the game you may not remember the WEEKLY server crashes us old timers had to endure. If you need a little reminder all you old timers, remember when there would be 5 shrouds up, we all went in there with our uber two weapon fighting toons and we brought the server to its KNEES? Well I do, so as far as I am concerned Mabar is a little laggy.

And with that in mind mad props to all those on the who are paid to fix things, for well, fixing things so we don't have to endure the weekly server crash anymore.

Thanks and have a great day!

P.S.

I miss my uber TWF toon :(

Lord_Nelson
10-28-2013, 09:22 PM
Ok so those of us that work can't get a tome hmm that stinks but thats the way it goes I guess typical

MartinusWyllt
10-28-2013, 09:34 PM
So...wild guess time?

I'm guessing it is possible to buy 2 or more tomes if you have enough signets from the same transaction window. I have not tested that, just a guess, so could easily be wrong.

ETA: Yes, I was wrong.

zorander6
10-28-2013, 09:39 PM
Many eons ago, a manager had an idea and commanded his minions to write code to implement this idea. This idea was to celebrate a holiday containing many forms of undead. Little known to most of the minions there was one minion with an evil purpose, to make the game unplayable. This minion served a higher power and as such found a way to get many of the visitors to this realm locked in stasis. After much wailing and gnashing of teeth and the application of many external sources of information passing those in stasis were freed. The minion also created a new pet by the name of LAG. This pet would go forth and interfere with visitors of the realm in any way possible.

One year later the minion found a pill on the side of the road, this pill made the pet LAG grow in size. Minions unaware of this pet promised improvements. The festival ran several times and during each encounter the pet LAG grew.

The following year the LAG beast had become hungry and started hunting more voraciously but, being an unintelligent monster it drew curious kobolds to the gathering rather than un-dead. The manager, seeing the work the minion had been doing requested the kobolds be returned to the sewers and the pet LAG be release again nearer a holiday featuring feathered birds in one land.

This year the LAG monster had grown so large the minion that summoned it could no longer control it. While enjoying the dismay caused by this monstrous beast the manager called in a team to "investigate" and point out that the monster "LAG" did not truly exist.

What will next year bring?


-------------------------end of story time------------------------------------------------

Honestly not surprised, would have been nice to get a tome but I work far to many hours during the week to even bother at this point. Maybe next year.

Eadbhard
10-28-2013, 10:06 PM
I'm actually glad Turbine is closing Mabar. It's very frustrating right now for a lot of people. Maybe it's server dependent, I don't know.

I didn't read the 9 pages of posts in this thread, so this may have been said, but here's my suggestion for the rest of the week:

Reduce the turn-ins required to open the summoning chamber to 2,500-3,000. We can still get only 1 signet per day, but people can get in and out faster. This may have the effect of reducing the number of players in each instance as well, possibly alleviating some of the performance issues.

Just a thought...

houb
10-28-2013, 10:36 PM
I have just finished reading all 9 page about this wonderful "problem" that I have been experiencing. so to tell you what nobody from the company will, somebody found an exploit they can get as many +5 tomes as they want and turbine is shutting it down. ever since this game went free to play it has been bound to flounder. now this is not to say that power gamers wont flock to it. but it is going to turn into another Acherons call. turbine if you want to kill the game just do it while you are ahead before people like your founders retract their subscriptions especially after some of your founders lost their accounts in the free to play transfer. I am honestly embarrassed to call myself a founder and for thinking this game would actually turn into something that could be enjoyed by everyone. but you have to cater to the power gamer and make everything faster and easier to accommodate them and not the people that play for a challenge and fun. thank you very much I will continue to play for free but ill not purchase turbine points or any other in game currency. this game is doomed unless you actually pull your heads out of your arses and fix the problems with your game and stop letting the power gamers control the flow of the game

moomooprincess
10-28-2013, 10:43 PM
Give the players another shot at it over the weekend? My son and a friend were home from college, and when the college kids come home, my internet is brought to its knees so my gaming over the weekend was limited to early morning hours before everyone woke up. Which means one run.

I saw someone else asked for Thanksgiving. Heck no, but I know I am in the minority on that one. I do family stuff on Thanksgiving so Wednesday through Saturday afternoon is pretty much family time.

My main fails occur at levels 20 and up. I gave up in that range since my failure rate was 100%.

Trapsmith
10-28-2013, 10:45 PM
Might be nice to give everyone 3 Signets.....

Or just bring back Crystal Cove with Mabar rewards!


Crystal Cove of the Undead! Now, that would be a fun Mabar event!

Impaqt
10-28-2013, 10:55 PM
Closing Mabar because it's broken: bad.
Closing Mabar in order to fix it so that it won't be broken next time: VERY GOOD.

Unfortunately, it seems we're getting

Closing Mabar.... Maybe we'll get around to to fixing it before we reopen it next year.

Missing_Minds
10-28-2013, 11:00 PM
Unfortunately, it seems we're getting

Closing Mabar.... Maybe we'll get around to to fixing it before we reopen it next year.

Oh yeah, we forgot to budget for that and we are busy with everything else. OOPs. Well... it runs.


And seems like the issue is with the engine and not DDO, and DDO devs aren't allowed to touch the engine really so we are still screwed.

Xaenith
10-28-2013, 11:02 PM
I've got a bridge to sell anyone who believes Mabar's performance issues will be fixed before it is re-released next year.

It was removed because players quickly figured out a simple exploit (which, by the way, has been around in various forms a very long time) to obtain multiple +5 tomes per character. Obviously, since this affects their bottom line, they're removing Mabar. If they truly give a damn they'll also ban the people who took advantage of it and roll back their tomes. Since, you know, they turned over a new leaf and all and are cracking down on cheating.

TheKeeper1981
10-28-2013, 11:16 PM
Mabar is my favorite DDO holiday of the year, and I've been celebrating it ever since it first came out, the streak only broken last year, when my computer died and couldn't be replaced until January of this year. So I was extra pumped about Mabar returning, and even more excited when I got a look at the new toys that came with it. Certainly, I had quite a few failures, a day, due to a combination of lag and lack of teamwork, but I still got my daily signet, so I didn't think that things were bad enough to warrant ending my favorite holiday so quickly. I'm definitely a sad monk, tonight. =( I really hope that whatever issues that forced it to come to a premature end are fixed soon enough to allow a return, sometime in November of this year.

jskinner937
10-28-2013, 11:18 PM
I've got a bridge to sell anyone who believes Mabar's performance issues will be fixed before it is re-released next year.

It was removed because players quickly figured out a simple exploit (which, by the way, has been around in various forms a very long time) to obtain multiple +5 tomes per character. Obviously, since this affects their bottom line, they're removing Mabar. If they truly give a damn they'll also ban the people who took advantage of it and roll back their tomes. Since, you know, they turned over a new leaf and all and are cracking down on cheating.

Heard this bug only turned out to be an urban legend. At least one person I know of tried and tested it without success.

cyfrak
10-29-2013, 12:01 AM
11 days cut... great, getting back to home just after closer. Thank U very much.
Would be great to know it last weekend, but who cares, surely not turbine.

OkamiKage_GinGetsu
10-29-2013, 12:03 AM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

There is an ancient Dwarven phrase. "Katakhiger ikminshulk zatatanak".Roughly translated, **** happens.

Thumbed_Servant
10-29-2013, 12:06 AM
Tolero, Cordovan, and Producer Glin were interviewed on DDOcast. Here is a link to our forum with the cast embeded:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429230-DDOCast-Episode-309-Ask-the-Devs?highlight=ddocast

In the interview Tolero says, and I'm paraphrasing from memory, that they believe most of the Mabar trouble comes from the physics of the monsters. It is something their engineers think they can fix, but it will take time. Most likely Mabar won't be coming back this year.

My thoughts on their announcement on Monday to end it on Thursday evening/Friday morning: The staff got to work on Monday and started reviewing the compiled data from the computers and the compiled information of the community (us) feeling with respect to the weekend of Mabar. Obviously the forums are rife with angst and unhappiness. Sometime in the middle of Monday they reached the decision that it wasn't working well enough and was generating too much unhappiness to let it run the full schedule originally posted. So, they made the announcement. Now, if they simply cut it off today, then many more people working towards those tomes would have been VERY unhappy as they would have no chance. It takes 3 signets, and a toon may earn 1 signet per day; assume a player hasn't started collecting as they were busy and planned to play later during the event. These players will then need a minimum of 3 days to farm the signets and get a tome. So, Turbine decides to end the event in 3 days. As some always feel the ending at the evening for someone else cuts off their play time, it is announced that the event ends Thursday night, but they will shut it off early Friday morning USA time so EVERYONE gets a Thursday night to play all the way to midnight and even beyond and won't feel they weren't given the entire 3 days.

Exploit? Those are always possible, but if they were shutting it down due to an exploit, they would shut it down immediately and then try to hotfix the exploit and return the event. This is not the case..we have 3 days, the minimum needed to farm a tome from scratch, and then complete shutdown as the troubles are deep in the code and will take time to fix.

Hopefully the combined weight of so many people posting about their despair over the events' troubles will prompt Turbine to put more resources towards finding the actual cause(s) of the Mabar troubles and get them much improved before they run Mabar again. It is obvious that the event has a customer appeal, if only it would run well.

My thoughts on the subject,

Thumbed_Servant

morkahn82
10-29-2013, 12:14 AM
That is very frustrating and disappointing. So you shorten mabar time from three weekends, to one. and none ahead. I will not have time to finish any of my tome projects since I am working during the week. I always smiled when somebody in forums demands compensation for any of your questionable decisions, but this time and for the first time I am on their side asking for compensation. You turbine should not always buckle and change your plans when a few people on forums asking for this or that, that's spineless. And face it, you didnt change your plans because of the lag, because the lag was there in every mabar year. You changed your mind because of the trolling fanbois mabar haters in forums and you did not notice that mabar lovers are online having fun and playing the game. 2014, the year where mabar grinch stole mabar.

5 signets for every character and keep signet trader up two weeks.

Blayster
10-29-2013, 12:56 AM
I am one of the many people who supported the idea of ending Mabar.

It is great that the suggestion was heard, and that the devs may *possibly* work on fixing it.

However, not bringing it back this year still leaves a lot open. It is still very unfair that some players had the chance to farm the +5 Tome and some other players didn't. I am hoping that Turbine will compensate for that.

Maybe add the possibility to farm +5 Tome during the next festival (which one is it? Crystal Cove?) and put on the same constraints? (that is, only one per character using the same flag as Mabar)

Twinkly
10-29-2013, 01:04 AM
It seems like massive lag spikes correspond with spawn waves (at least outside int he graveyard). It seems highly probable that if spawning could be made more computationally efficient, the lag would be reduced.

Zotze
10-29-2013, 01:10 AM
I'm sorry to see that Mabar, my favourite Event will be closed.

But why u close it on every Server? On Wayfinder we don't have and never had problems with "lags" or something else. We can play this event normal without any problems, so why u destroy our fun and chance to farm some nice items too ? Isn't it possible to close it on the affected servers only ? ...

damn i had to work last weekend, this week is my long free weekend and u close the event...

Luckily we managed to get all the last days minimum 1 run, so everybody got the signet, but at least i have to drop my plans to farm the pumpkin cosmetic head and some more of the augments... :-(

So my hope: Let the event stay on Wayfinder ! ;-) (even if i think its not possible ...)

Greetings from the lagfree, Event-Enjoying People on Wayfinder. We are all disappointed that our working Event will be canceld :-(

Zotze

Entelech
10-29-2013, 01:51 AM
I'm having mixed feelings about this one.

On one hand, I am glad they're taking it down early as an acknowledgement of server performance issues. Not only was the Spectral Dragon event literally unplayable due to server lag, but the events in Deleras had bleed-over effects that made other instances (Crafting Halls, for example) unbearable.

However, I am skeptical about the real odds of their doing anything to fix the problem. They had complaints about server performance two years ago, promised to work on it, and it was worse last year. Then, after last year, they promised to improve lag issues and it got even worse this year. Though they did get rid of those horrid giant skeletons, their track record does not inspire confidence.

And, finally, I like what they've done with the event. There are some cool items (OK, the head spider was a massive disappointment, but the tomes and augs are cool) that give you a reason to (1) farm the event and (2) farm it on multiple characters, thereby cutting down on the killstealing/meteorswarming groups of folks who made the graveyard not be much fun. If it weren't for the lag, I'd be giving them full marks this year.

Also, check your hardware, Turbine. This won't be the first time some hardware guy has put crummy memory chips in when the customer paid for good ones, pocketed the price difference, and counted on the pagefile to conceal his treachery until he was safely in Bermuda.

Jerren
10-29-2013, 02:17 AM
My big gripe is instances where there aren't enough players to complete and what happens when multiple raid parties enter the same instance. Trying to have 4-5 raid parties in 1 instance + mobs to fight is a recipe for lag. Even if this lag is on our side the server is grouping all of them together with the first member to enter the chamber. I like this functionality but there needs to be a hard and fast limit to players in an instance of the chamber include all party members of players entering the instance when the first party member enters. This will also help my other gripe which is entering the chamber after the initial rush without a party by letting more empty slots be filled by solo players later on.

I hate to tell you this but being in a raid does not ensure you end up in an instance with anyone in it. I was in a raid party tonight and they were all in an instance that had many other people in it and I was in an instance with only 1 other person and did not even get to see the dragon much less fail due to lag.

Chaosprism
10-29-2013, 02:22 AM
I found that although many complained about pets and persistant AOE effects being the cause I found that it was simply the sheer number of gargoyles

so if people KEPT the light in their chamber they'd be endless gargoyles spawning up above to try and turn the lever off.

So simply if you ONLY turned the light on when the dragon was there, then just ignored the gargoyles and let them turn it off again after the dragons moved elsewhere it was fine.

After we figured that one out, I have barely had a lag death.



I did lose quite a few ethereal keys trying to get into the dragon instance, it would just kick me back out instantly and take my key.

Also the spawns sometimes appeared then faded in seconds, so why did they appear in the first place?

Jerren
10-29-2013, 02:22 AM
Gargoyles are not the problem.

The instances I have been in where people have NOT summoned or used pets, plus kept off spamming AOE spells, everything has been just happy and dandy.

I have been in just as many where people were using their pets and disco balls and blade barriers and had 0 issues with lag. Not saying that those things may not have a hand in it but cannot say FOR SURE that they do either base on my own experience.

Gywiden
10-29-2013, 02:29 AM
It seems that if you just gave us a different battle in the chamber it would fix most of it. Most of the lag seems to come from Eternity and the gargoyles. Secondarily it seems to come from the amount of players.

Just retire Eternity, ditch the altars and gargoyles, give us an epic battle with a dracolich (or a less-graphics-intensive spectral dragon, even Eternity reincarnated) or something so the scales make sense still, and have like a dozen or less players in each instance. Keep the graveyard and items the same for the most part (I mean, there isn't many ways to get a Nightshield clicky after all; it'd be a shame to retire that too).

Also, it'd probably help if Jorasco could have more than one instance. Many of us on Cannith got stuck in House J because right after we killed eternity people went to talk to the signet trader filling the area with several dozen people and making it so many of us couldn't even move without using Teleport or an Eveningstar key. There was no second instance of house J! I know for the rest of the year the need for more than one instance isn't needed, but it should be implemented due to Mabar.

Wanesa
10-29-2013, 02:30 AM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

Ï guess, that you already know, where is the problem. Otherwise I don't know, where you want to perform load tests elsewhere than in the production environment (as an employee of IT company I know how difficult is to find the environment for load testing)

QuantumFX
10-29-2013, 02:41 AM
Looks like it’s going to be closed with EXTREME PREJUDICE™

Trapsmith
10-29-2013, 02:49 AM
Love the quotes around the word "lag." Let me find out Turbine devs took a +1 tome in shade-throwing, LOL.

Way to undermine your own player-base by doing so, too.

What the Dev in question should have done is explain the meaning of the word 'lag'.

lag is, by definition, a delay in response due to delays in communication from sending and receiving computers. What most people are actually experiencing is technically not lag, but definitely a performance issue. The users just kinda lump every delay under the term 'lag'.

I hope that helps!

Silken-Akira
10-29-2013, 03:11 AM
Why kill it Friday morning? It's not like you guys are gonna work on it over the weekend. Why not leave it up through Sunday night, and take it down early Monday morning when you come back to work?

Have to agree here.


Cordovan, someone in another thread suggested that a big part of the lag issue may be tied to instance i2049 (I believe), saying that their interpretation of why that instance has long been known to have a high incidence of lag is that it's the first instance people go into for a lot of things on the server: the Cannith crafting hall, a lot of raids, Mabar, and some other things...so it's getting the brunt of the load until it's full, at which point people get pushed into i2050 (or 1050 or whatever), etc... Since 49 is the one that fills first, and has so many disparate parts of the game all in there, it's most prone to lag during busy hours.



I can bet that most of these "dragon lags" are caused by famous instances 2049 and 2050. This legend about these doomed instances is here since i have started playing and it is still here.. Every time i have monster lags i check instance and ta-daa 2049 or 2050 , not only mabar , but many many ordinary quests and when i check it it is usually almost finished quest and too late (failed thanks to this)

Thanks to closing mabar so soon i have no chance to get tomes or augments i wanted during work days .. Thank you Turbine , thank you !

Also I am not a powergamer but didn't have a lag yet (on thelanis lvl 20+) What I did here from another person who did many runs and didn't had/do any lagged ones either was that he just quit when he saw certain instances.

finally, it is a pity but not the end of the world that it closes. but for all those that had special plans/freed up personal time for this there should be some kind of compensation.

crumblix
10-29-2013, 03:24 AM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are currently investigating performance issues with the festival, and will be working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We appreciate your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

I don't normally post, so I consider myself one of the silent majority who has been too busy playing to bother complaining ... sorry commenting.

While my wife thanks you, I must admit to being a little disappointed. I personally feel the lag issue has been overstated, at least in terms of success rates. My own personal experiences are that I have successfully managed to acquire +5 tomes on all 5 of my toons. Lag seems worst when there is large number of people online, noticeably on the first day or two or around midnight GMT. I imagine this is when most of the north american users are playing. As a basic rule if the time between openings decreases you can bet that the lag increases.

The best way I've found to avoid the lag (and probable failure thereafter) has been to play the lower level toons at that time. Possibly because there are less persistent spell effects lingering, which again is probably simply less load on the server.

All in all, I'd say my success rate has been around 80%, and that most of the failures were on the first day or so or during peak usage. As much as it may be nice to think it's all because of my skill, in reality I believe it should be achievable by others if they plan carefully and also have low level toons to run (a big if of course!). If however you don't I'd suggest the best bet is to try and find a low peak time for the run, again of course not possible for everyone. Failing that simply wrestle with the lag and hope for the best :)

I must admit I simply don't understand why people are glad it's been taken down though, surely simply not attending Mabar gives you the same experience? In fact the lag would probably keep decreasing for the rest of us ... win win I would have thought.

Personally I have sympathy for the devs, trying to accurately replicate and test load on this scale must not be easy.

All the best to everyone with your final runs regardless :)

Arahan
10-29-2013, 04:01 AM
The reason is that some things that are described as "lag" may well be non-lag-related bugs or other performance issues, rather than issues related to the more traditional definitions of lag. We are well aware of the performance issues reported with Mabar this weekend.

This weekend?! This has been an issue with the event every year. Turbine has a whole year to improve it and yet it almost seems worst with each coming year. Posts, complaints and comments seem to fall on deaf ears. Every year that I can recall Turbine has had to close the event for one issue or another. Rarely has the Mabar event been available for the initially advertise length, and if it does come back up after a closing, most people are just fed up and frustrated with it they don't bother.

Your customers literally DREAD this event coming around. PUGs for questing trickle to nothing for a period till everyone realizes that nothing has changed from the previous year.

MIvan
10-29-2013, 04:35 AM
It takes 3 signets, and a toon may earn 1 signet per day; assume a player hasn't started collecting as they were busy and planned to play later during the event. These players will then need a minimum of 3 days to farm the signets and get a tome. So, Turbine decides to end the event in 3 days. As some always feel the ending at the evening for someone else cuts off their play time, it is announced that the event ends Thursday night, but they will shut it off early Friday morning USA time so EVERYONE gets a Thursday night to play all the way to midnight and even beyond and won't feel they weren't given the entire 3 days.

Nice to giving us 3 days, but these are work days! Most ppl can't play 10+ hours on workdays.
We have only one chance per day to get our signet. If it fails, we don't have 3-4 hours to wait on workdays to try it again. (And we have more than one toon.)
Pls cut the pointless delay after closing the door from 30 mins to 10 mins (or better to 0). And cut down the turn ins to 3000 or less.

fredericko
10-29-2013, 04:56 AM
I appreciate the effort you put in adding seasonal events and more importantly keeping rewards meaningful for current endgame - who doesn't want a +5 tome. However, you need to iron the rough edges because my experience with Mabar wasn't that good.

Thing with Mabar and the door mechanics is that for European players who don't get to play on US peak times count can go really slow. Last sunday morning, for instance, I spent something between 3 and 4 hours with my main farming motes at Delera's in hopes of getting another sigil and make some progress towards a +5 tome. In those 3 to 4 hours I only could enter the chamber once, and it was a lag wipe. As most people who have been around for 5 years or more, I have little use for the motes, sigils being my only motivation to run Mabar. That was my third day at Mabar and I only could get one sigil for my main on those 3 days, lag and slow going countdown during my playtime being mostly responsible for that.

I really enjoy DDO for many different reasons but experiences like the last couple of days in Mabar were really detrimental to my enjoyment of the game. I hope you can fix whatever issues are plaguing Mabar right now (be it classical lag or not, I honestly can't tell). Until then, taking it down seems the right decision to me ("lag" does not only hit Delera's Graveyard, not in Sarlona anyway).

Brendael
10-29-2013, 05:11 AM
I'm very disappointed to hear this news. I was one of the many (Mostly silent.) individuals who didn't experience any issues with lag and who was having an awesome time with Mabar.

It is always a pity when a highly vocal minority of complainers gets their way and is responsible for killing the fun for the rest of us.

So thanks devs, this year's event was an improvement on the last and I definitely had a good time. I hope to enjoy it again as much next year.

tammyaline
10-29-2013, 05:22 AM
Exploit? Those are always possible, but if they were shutting it down due to an exploit, they would shut it down immediately and then try to hotfix the exploit and return the event. This is not the case..we have 3 days, the minimum needed to farm a tome from scratch, and then complete shutdown as the troubles are deep in the code and will take time to fix.




What part of the last exploit makes you think that they will "shut it down immediately?" How long did they let last exploit go on for?

And yes, there is a way to get more than one tome. Have I done it, no ... I have purchased all my +5 tomes (yay Pay2Win) ... but its a fact it's happening. Do I care, nope, not one bit just like I didn't care about the last exploit ... But to Turbine it effects their bottom line ... so I wouldn't doubt this is part of the reason it is ending early.

EnziteBob
10-29-2013, 05:56 AM
well that sucks. At least five of my toons got +5 tomes.

Leclaire1
10-29-2013, 06:59 AM
While I give constructive criticism on the Lamma forums where it is sought after, I rarely complain about things on the live forums. That said, I find this announcement completely disappointing and unfair. To be fair, I haven't had a single lag dragon wipe yet after several runs, so perhaps I don't share the same frustration as others, but their does seem to be a genuine integrity concern here. We were told we would have a certain amount of time to get the things we wanted, and now that is being taken away with no compensation. I understand that these performance issues are complex, and I can definitely understand bringing it down for a fix and bringing it back later, but just taking it down and not bringing it back this year doesn't seem fair to those of us that have been enjoying it, and planning our time around acquiring what we want.

I do appreciate Cordovan's apology, and clearly these performance issues are not the fault of the community team, but at the end of the day an apology without some sort of genuine compensation seems a bit hollow. I think it would be fair to take the event down with a promise to bring it back later once these issues are addressed. If this doesn't seem possible, I think it would be more than fair for Turbine to apologize and send everyone some Turbine Points as compensation for lost time, or the frustration others went through during performance issue wipes. This would be decent customer service, and is the least any good business should do. I think this latter option is an easy solution which would give some more meaning to apologies over the years. Yet without something above, I think I'm going to be less committed to this game. Performance problems can't always be avoided in the symbiotic entity that is an MMO, but the way the game provider responds is critical to keeping up morale.

Coruon
10-29-2013, 07:36 AM
Maybe add Gremlins next year to the monster list.

I want to see Lag Monsters! Hit them once with eternal wand of nimbus light, and they freeze immediately, only being able to wave their hands helplessy and then die after few minutes while crying LLLAAAaaaggggghh".

Tatties
10-29-2013, 07:44 AM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.


Simply put, this is ********.

Pantronic
10-29-2013, 08:03 AM
I've been having fun with Mabar in spite of the occasional lag, and my ONLY problem with Mabar, and the reason I'm going to complain now, is that I was looking forward to having time to actually accomplish something, since it usually doesn't last long enough for someone with limited playtime like me, and I've just found out it's being summarily axed.

If people complaining and stamping their feet about *Mabar*broken*Mabar*bad*Mabar*lag*Mabar*mademeugly *Mabar*waaaaah* convinced Turbine to pull the plug, then consider me stamping my feet and demanding to rage-quit if Mabar doesn't go on until the 11th as planned.

No you can't haz my stuffs. LOL.. nothing in this post is serious except, I'd really like Mabar to go on, failing an attempt at the dragon here and there is just fine, as long as there are more chances to try, and cutting it off short means there won't be.

haulindonkey
10-29-2013, 08:18 AM
While I give constructive criticism on the Lamma forums where it is sought after, I rarely complain about things on the live forums. That said, I find this announcement completely disappointing and unfair. To be fair, I haven't had a single lag dragon wipe yet after several runs, so perhaps I don't share the same frustration as others, but their does seem to be a genuine integrity concern here. We were told we would have a certain amount of time to get the things we wanted, and now that is being taken away with no compensation. I understand that these performance issues are complex, and I can definitely understand bringing it down for a fix and bringing it back later, but just taking it down and not bringing it back this year doesn't seem fair to those of us that have been enjoying it, and planning our time around acquiring what we want.

I do appreciate Cordovan's apology, and clearly these performance issues are not the fault of the community team, but at the end of the day an apology without some sort of genuine compensation seems a bit hollow. I think it would be fair to take the event down with a promise to bring it back later once these issues are addressed. If this doesn't seem possible, I think it would be more than fair for Turbine to apologize and send everyone some Turbine Points as compensation for lost time, or the frustration others went through during performance issue wipes. This would be decent customer service, and is the least any good business should do. I think this latter option is an easy solution which would give some more meaning to apologies over the years. Yet without something above, I think I'm going to be less committed to this game. Performance problems can't always be avoided in the symbiotic entity that is an MMO, but the way the game provider responds is critical to keeping up morale.
^^This (everything this poster says i agree with 100%)

Caprice
10-29-2013, 08:30 AM
You might want to get someone to change the Mabar splash page on DDO.com to display the new end date. It still says it is running through November 11 as of 3 minutes ago. I was able to highlight the text on the page so it is not embedded in the image and should be relatively easy to fix. With just 3 full days left in the event, and with it taking action across 3 full days to get the +5 tome, today might be a really good day to fix the advertisement.

AuraAten
10-29-2013, 09:21 AM
I do appreciate Cordovan's apology, and clearly these performance issues are not the fault of the community team, but at the end of the day an apology without some sort of genuine compensation seems a bit hollow. I think it would be fair to take the event down with a promise to bring it back later once these issues are addressed. If this doesn't seem possible, I think it would be more than fair for Turbine to apologize and send everyone some Turbine Points as compensation for lost time, or the frustration others went through during performance issue wipes. This would be decent customer service, and is the least any good business should do. I think this latter option is an easy solution which would give some more meaning to apologies over the years. Yet without something above, I think I'm going to be less committed to this game. Performance problems can't always be avoided in the symbiotic entity that is an MMO, but the way the game provider responds is critical to keeping up morale.

This is a very nice suggestion. The only problem there is that Turbine does NOT give out TP for compensation. Remember when all V.I.P. were supposed to get 250 TP for the massive downtime they had last year? Yeah I and several people I know STILL have not received those.

kned225
10-29-2013, 09:51 AM
Performance problems can't always be avoided in the symbiotic entity that is an MMO, but the way the game provider responds is critical to keeping up morale.

Exactly. Its amazing how quickly the foaming masses are calmed with some communication and a bone to chew on. Why they dont wield these powers more often is beyond me.

SurlyYuri
10-29-2013, 10:06 AM
Closing it early: Letting it run through the weekend would have been better IMO


Performance Issues: On my Druid, I "solo'd" a lever with my pet, a summon and a gaggle of firewalls, no lag. On my Wizard, I had 3 dancing balls and 3 firewalls going at a time, no lag. On my Artificer, I had my pet out and 3 blade barriers going, no lag. So, the "no AoE, no pets" is bunk.


Time between openings: It takes 10000 turn-ins to open the doors. 10000*1 or 2000*5 or 1000*10 or 500*20. If more people actually killed some undead and turned in the stuff instead of waiting for other people to do it, the doors would open faster. Even with a 30(?) min. delay after the doors close, the chamber could, and should, open every hour with a modicum of effort. I logged on this morning (6 Eastern) before work. It took 45 minutes for the remaining 4000 turn-ins and the doors to open. During that 45 minutes, I collected another 50-some turn-ins (200*50). It's simple math really. (Lowering the turn-in's required wouldn't be bad either :))

kned225
10-29-2013, 10:13 AM
Performance Issues: On my Druid, I "solo'd" a lever with my pet, a summon and a gaggle of firewalls, no lag. On my Wizard, I had 3 dancing balls and 3 firewalls going at a time, no lag. On my Artificer, I had my pet out and 3 blade barriers going, no lag. So, the "no AoE, no pets" is bunk.


As others have said, there are instances where the use of these things have no apparent effect. But in an instance on the edge, its possible they can tip the scales from "got thru with a bit of lag" to "wipe"

Why chance it? You certainly dont need all that to kill a few gargoyles

evil_mimi
10-29-2013, 10:41 AM
What can I say...
You've picked the very easy solution
Closing the event?!?!? for what? and why?
Cause some players say they had some lag issus? or should I say "lag" issus?
If this is the case, you should close down all servers on every saturday night!!!
Why punish all players for this thing???
Yes, event is laggy, myself even lost couple of times on laggy 2049 dragon instance, but this only to the results of players who wouldn't listen what NOT to do during this event. (db, fog, summons, etc.)
I think someone need to remind DDO that they exist only because players like the game and willing to pay for it
So coming with this closing announce is like saying to all players, that you don't realy care about us
and that sad

Disappointed Player

Grahson
10-29-2013, 10:57 AM
What can I say...
You've picked the very easy solution
Closing the event?!?!? for what? and why?
Cause some players say they had some lag issus? or should I say "lag" issus?
If this is the case, you should close down all servers on every saturday night!!!

Disappointed Player

Yea what's the excuse for the rest of the year when Mabar isn't running? Guess they will have to shut the entire game down!

Grahson
10-29-2013, 11:05 AM
Really what harm would come from just leaving it up till the 11th like planned?

The entire game has lag issues not just Mabar.

lipidoidal_maniac
10-29-2013, 11:08 AM
FWIW, on Orien server I was running A, C and E instances and had 9 of 15 successes. 4 of those fails were the lag freeze and the other two were from not enough people to make the second instance (like E2).

babylu22
10-29-2013, 11:17 AM
Why is lag in quotes? That makes it sound like you think lag isn't real. It is real, and most of it is on Turbine's side of the client-server divide.

I know I have a powerhouse PC I built and "lag" as you describe it is ALL server side. I have a 8 core, 16GB, 2GB video card on a water loop and 100M internet service.. Funny how when I am experiencing this "lag" I go to speedtest.net and I am faster than 95% of people that use their service. You guys really are full of yourselves, learn how to tune a VM.

acdccod
10-29-2013, 11:26 AM
Oh we'll it's a shame cool event

Mamba_Lev
10-29-2013, 11:49 AM
The Mabar Festival of Endless Night will be concluding earlier than previously announced. The festival will be available until October 31st, ending early on the morning of November 1st.


We are not currently investigating performance issues with the festival, or working to improve the festival in the future, including addressing many of your "lag"-related concerns. We are just going to close it. We couldn't care less about your feedback and we apologize for the inconvenience.

We will be asking for more donations for our latest release of bugged content shortly. Although your opinions will be ignored with a better excuse.


Fixxed.

Also this forum needs less Dev alts thanking them for "all the great work". See we can use quotes too.

axel15810
10-29-2013, 12:45 PM
I feel bad for anyone that had planned to run the event this weekend. I'm glad I already got my cloak upgraded and my +5 tome or I'd be really dissapointed. Devs you should consider not bring the event back next year until all these problems are fixed.

DarkSpectre
10-29-2013, 12:55 PM
You might want to get someone to change the Mabar splash page on DDO.com to display the new end date. It still says it is running through November 11 as of 3 minutes ago. I was able to highlight the text on the page so it is not embedded in the image and should be relatively easy to fix. With just 3 full days left in the event, and with it taking action across 3 full days to get the +5 tome, today might be a really good day to fix the advertisement.

I agree the dates on the splash page are partially misleading at best.

Pantronic
10-29-2013, 01:23 PM
Your customers literally DREAD this event coming around. PUGs for questing trickle to nothing for a period till everyone realizes that nothing has changed from the previous year.

I'm pretty sick of people speaking for me. SOME of us anticipate this event more eagerly than Christmas, even knowing there's going to be some problems. So if you don't like it, fine, but Turbine's customers include plenty of people who love Mabar. Now, Risia, I can totally live without, so feel free to just cancel that before it even starts. :P

Leclaire1
10-29-2013, 01:33 PM
I'm pretty sick of people speaking for me. SOME of us anticipate this event more eagerly than Christmas, even knowing there's going to be some problems. So if you don't like it, fine, but Turbine's customers include plenty of people who love Mabar. Now, Risia, I can totally live without, so feel free to just cancel that before it even starts. :P

Agreed completely. Mabar can be difficult but has a fun theme and awesome rewards. CC is fun and works well, though they need to upgrade loot to level 24 and maybe 28 next time. Risia sucks bad. I'm here to fight evil, not be a figure-skating queen. Then again, I'd be a figure-skating queen if it gave me useful rewards, which it doesn't.

NCBlade
10-29-2013, 02:47 PM
The count is currently 5 fails ( lvl 28) and 1 successful ( lvl 11)
The lvl 28 dragon quest has lagged out every time to the point that when I can move again it is after my toon is dead.

samthedagger
10-29-2013, 03:23 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

This is a huge disappointment. I've actually been having a great time with Mabar. Most of the lag-related concerns have been with the dragon fight. Is it possible you could just close the dragon fight, slightly reduce the cost of spectral scales, and let Mabar continue?

samthedagger
10-29-2013, 03:25 PM
Or seriously, just come up with a way for the dragon fight instance NOT to default to same instance as the Crafting Hall.

mouseyrt
10-29-2013, 04:09 PM
Unfortunately, things changed. Sorry! We did want to announce the decision as soon as possible, though, to give people some time to get their signets between now and early Friday.



We'll let you know once we investigate further, but we do not currently expect Mabar to return this year.

So ... at about 8 PM on the 28th you announce it's going away Nov 1 .... giving us 3 days to get 3 of the limit 1 per day signets ?!?!? And that seems reasonable to you? The mabar event takes HOURS between door openings, unlike CC. No one that has a job can make this deadline for multiple characters. Even one toon might be pushing it if you don't already have a signet. How about lifting the 1 per day limit? That would let people get what they need ( you ARE cutting 11 days off after all .... how many more signets could a person get in 3 days that they would not have been able to get if the event were open for the full planned time frame? )

ddo.rsmo.pt
10-29-2013, 04:18 PM
And so ends one of the biggest fiascos so far.

In past years, we could at least reach some goals.
This year, we were presented a faulty product, shown a big carrot (+5 tome) and then had our leash pulled "Oh no you don't!"

4 raid runs, 1 completions, 0 fun.

In a way, I'm glad it's over...

Carry on.

Oxarhamar
10-29-2013, 04:40 PM
Agreed completely. Mabar can be difficult but has a fun theme and awesome rewards. CC is fun and works well, though they need to upgrade loot to level 24 and maybe 28 next time. Risia sucks bad. I'm here to fight evil, not be a figure-skating queen. Then again, I'd be a figure-skating queen if it gave me useful rewards, which it doesn't.

if you think Risia rewards suck your doing it wrong.

some of the most powerful Random Gen Items can have Icy Burst added.

No other event lets you add any type of burst to your weapons.

http://i43.tinypic.com/10eqasn.jpg

just a few of my favorites but, the same can be done to Top Tier Epic Lootgen

balvix
10-29-2013, 05:31 PM
As soon as you get in to the Summoning Chamber, let everyone know that AoE spells are NOT a good idea. Apply Invis to all the altars (Mass Invis), Summons, much like AoE's, cause LAG. Any decent group, at lv, should have no problems with the Gargoyles, if you do, you need to reconsider your choices. Let people know when the dragon comes into your altar chamber so they can hit the switch (should not be on otherwise). Kill it and stop *****ing.

have you read any of the posts about mabar yet before you decided to put in your 2 cents? If you had you would realize how dumb your statements in your post were. Do you even know what happens when you lag? It doesnt matter how you built your toon nor what you are doing when it happens, if you lag till you cant move for 5 minutes at a time then I dont care how powerful your vaunted toon is, most likely you wont survive, and if you happen to make it then 5 minutes of free reign for the dragon and gargoyles is pretty much fail city. Next time read before you think you know everything that is going on, it will make you look like less of a jack@$%.

Sarezar
10-29-2013, 05:58 PM
There was no lag at all today for me. Not sure if it was pure luck but we didn't even get a "bleep" in fps.

barecm
10-29-2013, 05:59 PM
Maybe since it has never worked right, just scratch Mabar forever. I would suggest designing a new event with new loot,. Oh wait, bad idea. I don't want to have to pay for an event and that seems to be the only way you are delivering anything new these days.

Dethhand
10-29-2013, 06:23 PM
And so ends one of the biggest fiascos so far.

In past years, we could at least reach some goals.
This year, we were presented a faulty product, shown a big carrot (+5 tome) and then had our leash pulled "Oh no you don't!"

4 raid runs, 1 completions, 0 fun.

In a way, I'm glad it's over...

Carry on.

Wow, I found Mabar to be disappointing. First, it just didn't work as promised--3 successful dragon completions out of 8 attempts. Of the 5 fails, 4 were lag freezes and 1 was an instance with too few people. My last several play sessions left me really disatisfied with the entire play experience--and this is my favorite game in which I have invested untold time and money.

Turbine, please fix both the lag and the party matching mechanic before ever returning this to us. Second, given the dragon was bugged, the monster farming element is without value since I can't upgrade my higher level items without a scale--please consider giving Monster Manual credit at least to make it worth my time. Third, even when I got fed up and abandoned Mabar, the server-wide lag spikes made the play experience awful--I was in a FOT that had massive lag spikes and was only salvaged by the superior play of the others on the team.

Put a stake in Mabar like an unruly vampire until or unless you can ressurect it in a way that doesn't damage the server-wide experience for the majority of players.

HedgeHogShadow
10-29-2013, 06:44 PM
Maybe since it has never worked right, just scratch Mabar forever. I would suggest designing a new event with new loot,. Oh wait, bad idea. I don't want to have to pay for an event and that seems to be the only way you are delivering anything new these days.

AHHH, come on! It will be great! Mabar on steriods with zero lag! +7 tomes, cosmetic boots AND a new item slot 'Kerchief Pocket' for those that pre-order 'Menace of the Pocketbook: Return to Delera's Garage Days Mabar!!!!!'

joshuafields
10-29-2013, 07:20 PM
I sure wont miss It.

Ohio_Snowdog
10-29-2013, 07:24 PM
Ya, if you want to close it for technical reasons, fine. But have some consideration for the folks that won't have a chance to finish their upgrades.

For instance:

- Put a copy of the collectible turn-in and mote trader outside the entrance to the graveyard and leave the signet trader there as well.
- Update the Delera's quests to drop Mabar collectibles instead of the regular ****.
- Add signets to the quest rewards for the Delera chain. If that's too overpowered, make them signet fragments, etc.

This may take some grinding, but those of us trying like crazy to finish up before the proverbial plug is pulled will at least have an alternative.

Oxarhamar
10-29-2013, 07:31 PM
No lag whatsoever in the lowbie instance.

the instance was full also at the same times I had run the lag fest 20-26 instances before hand.

my guess the lack of spells and epic abilities in the lowbie instance was why it had no lag

OzDrew
10-29-2013, 07:39 PM
Sorry to see it go but I think this is the correct decision as not only Mabar was being affected.

* Anecdotally it does seem that higher level instances were more affected by the "lag" but certainly not exclusively so.
* My one huge "lag" failure did have some fool spamming disco ball but obviously cannot call this causative.
* Minimizing aoe's and pets appeared to help but again no way to draw a causative relationship.
* Thanks for the continued good level of communication, it is always appreciated.

samthedagger
10-29-2013, 08:51 PM
With experience and proper instruction, I have completed 12/14 spectral dragon fights this year, some of them even with lag. There are damage-control measures you can take when lag strikes. I just want to note that I love this festival and have always gotten great rewards out of it. I think Turbine owes us another 11 days of this festival. They should figure out what is going on, come up with a hotfix, and give it back when they do. I don't care if we have to wait until Christmas. Just do it. I anticipate this festival more than any other because of all the great loot.

The major component with lag I have found is when the summoning chamber uses the same instance as the crafting hall. On Argo this is i2049. Many folks on Argo have figured out that if they enter a dragon fight in i2049 to step out and step back in again until they get a different instance. On Argo, EVERY SINGLE TIME I have checked /loc in the Crafting Hall, it has been in i2049. I have heard of many similar experiences in Crafting Halls on other servers. And as any crafter can tell you, the Crafting Hall is already laggy as hell. I don't know why that is, but if there could somehow be a fix to get the summoning chamber creation code to never call the same instance as the Crafting Hall, that would probably fix a large amount of the lag. I will note that i2049 is always laggy on Argo. It must be tied to a server machine that is outdated, has sub-standard parts, or is broken. Either that or the code in DDO forces instances into i2049 on Argo far more often than any other instance causing it to choke up. Most of my spectral dragon fights this year have been virtually lag free after I figured out how to avoid i2049.

Here is another idea how to hotfix this. Leave the altars as the mechanic for prepping the summoning chamber, but make them invulnerable. Second, get rid of the two-minute death timer that boots characters out, or rather than removing the code, just change it to 30 minutes. That way we at least have 30 minutes to raise dead folks and kill the dragon if crippling lag strikes. That should be easy enough to code for a hotfix to salvage this year. You can work on other details for next year.

I REALLY REALLY love Mabar and want it to work in some form or fashion so rather than *****ing and moaning about lag, I am trying to be constructive. I wish other people would do the same.

Guartwog
10-30-2013, 12:45 AM
have you read any of the posts about mabar yet before you decided to put in your 2 cents? If you had you would realize how dumb your statements in your post were. Do you even know what happens when you lag? It doesnt matter how you built your toon nor what you are doing when it happens, if you lag till you cant move for 5 minutes at a time then I dont care how powerful your vaunted toon is, most likely you wont survive, and if you happen to make it then 5 minutes of free reign for the dragon and gargoyles is pretty much fail city. Next time read before you think you know everything that is going on, it will make you look like less of a jack@$%.

have you read any of the posts about people's experiences with mabar yet before you decided to put in your 2 cents? If you had, you would realize how irrelevant your statements in your post were.

He said nothing about how you built your toon, but rather what you (and other people in the same instance) are doing CAN affect the lag. Thus the reasoning of switching from the 2049 or 2050. Next time read through the posts before you bash somebody else's thoughts on the matter. It will make you look like less of a jackass. Try something constructive next time.

Seriously though, I'm pretty disappointed by this. Like many people have said in this thread, the game experience is variable - myself, the only failures I've had have been from lack of numbers rather than lag. It sucks that you fail due to lag, and I'd be angry if the same happened to me, but saying that because YOU always fail because of lag and therefore Mabar should be closed is a pretty unfair way to look at it. The problems appear to be from server side, so if you're in a failing run from massive "lag" (to use Turbine's terms) then it's just **** luck. Sorry, but that's life.

Turbine's way of handling this situation only aggravate the frustration that I've felt over the last updates and the projected changes to TR'ing for U20. If Mabar goes ignored and they end up nixing the epic token for heart of wood trade, I think it'll be a pretty clear indication of where they stand regarding their customer base.

EllisDee37
10-30-2013, 01:05 AM
Seriously though, I'm pretty disappointed by this. Like many people have said in this thread, the game experience is variable - myself, the only failures I've had have been from lack of numbers rather than lag. It sucks that you fail due to lag, and I'd be angry if the same happened to me, but saying that because YOU always fail because of lag and therefore Mabar should be closed is a pretty unfair way to look at it. The problems appear to be from server side, so if you're in a failing run from massive "lag" (to use Turbine's terms) then it's just **** luck. Sorry, but that's life.This is more aggressive than it needs to be, and also cuts both ways. There is enough lag to justify closing the event down. It sucks for people who didn't get the gear they wanted, sure. But to put it callously, that can be chalked up to "**** luck, sorry that's life."


If [...] they end up nixing the epic token for heart of wood trade, I think it'll be a pretty clear indication of where they stand regarding their customer base.They backed off nixing epic tokens last week, and today made the official announcement: Epic Tokens are here to stay for heroic hearts.

Coldin
10-30-2013, 02:40 AM
I would also like to chime in for this decision to be reconsidered. The lag, while bad at times, is still worth the trouble. I've actually been enjoying this Mabar a lot more than I have previous years.

At least let the event run through the weekend till Monday, that way people that only play on weekends can still have an opportunity to fight the dragon.

Oxarhamar
10-30-2013, 02:55 AM
I would also like to chime in for this decision to be reconsidered. The lag, while bad at times, is still worth the trouble. I've actually been enjoying this Mabar a lot more than I have previous years.

At least let the event run through the weekend till Monday, that way people that only play on weekends can still have an opportunity to fight the dragon.


I'm on the side of make it go away make it go away and only bring it back if its working.

Then I can go back to questing without checking for updates on the turn in count just to lag and fail when the Chamber does open.

I would have absolutely no problem with Mabar if it worked but, its not and we all know it is not.

Guartwog
10-30-2013, 05:36 AM
This is more aggressive than it needs to be, and also cuts both ways. There is enough lag to justify closing the event down. It sucks for people who didn't get the gear they wanted, sure. But to put it callously, that can be chalked up to "**** luck, sorry that's life."

They backed off nixing epic tokens last week, and today made the official announcement: Epic Tokens are here to stay for heroic hearts.

Yar. I was in a **** mood and was venting as much about things not related to the game as things in the game.

I'd heard they stopped pushing the issue, but it's GREAT to hear an official announcement on it! Thanks for the update, and here's hoping it sticks!

Edit: I'd also be a lot less crumb-bummy about the whole situation if I had any confidence whatsoever that they were actually going to try to solve the problem rather than just putting it aside until next year and acting surprised when it hasn't fixed itself. I realize it's tough doing what they do on their end and I appreciate it, but when you see the same problems popping up over and over (Mabar not being an isolated case of this) it tests your faith. I think there are other great solutions (simplest one, from what I can see, would be adapting CC which seems to work just fine), but frankly I'd *almost* rather not have this here to get my hopes up if it will always have such bad issues that it gets shut down early without going back up right when it's fixed (which, as I understand, is the case this year).

galvinomon
10-30-2013, 05:57 AM
I have been playing and paying for 6 years and I have to say this has taken the wind out of my sails. I love this event running around smacking undead with impunity. I know you guys are working on the problems but not giving your GM's the ability to give the rewards when there is a problem is mind numbing. I don't know what was more frustrating the loss do to lag or the smug responses I received when I filled out a ticket. I know that I am a no body and Turbine wont care but am very upset and I most likely will be suspending my sub (for the first time in a long time) due to execution of this event and because of the poor customer service I received.

Totally heart broken

Galvin.