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Scrag
10-28-2013, 12:31 PM
So, I have grouped with two of these shurimonks so far. Monks that do most, if not all, of their damage with a shuriken.

I am a pure drow monk, so I get +4 hit/dam with shuris anyway, and +chance to hit with extra stars equal to my dex. Since I am dex/con/wis based, with no str, this seems totally reasonable, as ninjaspy gives me dextodam with them. A brief unconfigured playtest at 18 with the level 16 elite Morning Star did noticeable damage, on the order of ~75dps perhaps. Given that it's heroic, and my gear is totally random, and I am not geared to do this in any way, I think it's not half bad.

However, how would I make a shurimonk work? And how/where do I get 10k stars from? I believe it was made a feat but I can't find it on ddowiki.

I am trying to maximize twf/shuri tossing to get the most out of my ninja spy and would love input from everyone, especially shurimonk builds. I have an lr 0 I will be using to reincarnate with and am level 19 with a +5 supreme tome. Any feat suggestions and ordering is really welcome. Thanks!

voodoogroves
10-28-2013, 12:40 PM
Most detailed build I've seen described so far: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423018-Shiradi-Shuricannon

ArcaneArcher52689
10-28-2013, 01:23 PM
Most detailed build I've seen described so far: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423018-Shiradi-Shuricannon

This. So far, i've found it pretty fun.

Only suggestion I have is to run the eveningstar challenges for a spelltouched shuriken

Scrag
10-28-2013, 01:49 PM
This. So far, i've found it pretty fun.

Only suggestion I have is to run the eveningstar challenges for a spelltouched shuriken

It looks pretty amazing. I think I am going to try this. I only have a standard monk build, so I am 4 points shy. I think I would take 2 points from dex and shove whatever I can into wisdom. I would still make 30+ dex, but not sure if I would make 40 dex. Thats a difference of 1 attack, but I think more attacks in 10kstars would be more point viable since I am on a first life char. I am just nervous about dropping my starting wis below 14, due to need for ac and saves. I already get hit a lot.

Totally looks like fun. Can't wait to try tonight.

Since all I have is morning star, should I go for a min2 shuriken?

Also, do I need a regular weapon?

TeacherSyn
10-30-2013, 11:18 AM
This sounds like a fun option with a really ticked off Drow as a Ninja Spy with all the throwing star and DEX options tuned to the maximum. I may have to give this one a go. :)

TeacherSyn
10-30-2013, 11:20 AM
It looks pretty amazing. I think I am going to try this. I only have a standard monk build, so I am 4 points shy. I think I would take 2 points from dex and shove whatever I can into wisdom. I would still make 30+ dex, but not sure if I would make 40 dex. Thats a difference of 1 attack, but I think more attacks in 10kstars would be more point viable since I am on a first life char. I am just nervous about dropping my starting wis below 14, due to need for ac and saves. I already get hit a lot.

Totally looks like fun. Can't wait to try tonight.

Since all I have is morning star, should I go for a min2 shuriken?

Also, do I need a regular weapon?

I think you should always be ready to melee. I'd equip my Monk with the fundamentals, especially to stun and insta-kill so as to get back to my pew-pewing. :) I'd seriously consider revving up the Ninja Poison stuff, have paralyzing short swords so that anything you touch or throw is d.o.tting the heck out of everything.

Damn, I gotta roll one up now.

jb111
10-30-2013, 02:39 PM
I think you should always be ready to melee. I'd equip my Monk with the fundamentals, especially to stun and insta-kill so as to get back to my pew-pewing. :) I'd seriously consider revving up the Ninja Poison stuff, have paralyzing short swords so that anything you touch or throw is d.o.tting the heck out of everything.

Damn, I gotta roll one up now.

Sounds cool but I wish the attacks would bypass like unarmed do. It seems like the Moncher would have so many more options due to large selection of bows and ammo. I scored a decent shuriken the other night - something like +5 shocking (1-6) shuriken of freezing gale. I have no crafting abilities so it's hard to find a good shuriken

Usually I shoot Lily Petals until I can get close or run away (80-120 + 8-12 dmg per character level (X23) to one target)

barecm
11-02-2013, 08:43 AM
The build is very, very fun. I enjoy my AA and I love this build as well. Things you will need to get if you are contemplating a higher level toon to TR into a monk. Get Celestia. You may want to make sure you will have access to the reward box or whatever, they are giving out for update 20. The other thing is to craft a good spell touched shuriken from Eveningstar. It is ridiculously easy to get and you can do the 3 you need solo. Maybe use a healing hireling if you need to heal the one guy you have to protect in the Sunset Ritual one... or whatever it is called.The other big issue is that the Monk capstone does not give +2 to crit range as advertised. Neither does the Halfling Tier 5 one. So, that being said, go Drow. I rolled up a Halfling at first and will be re-rolling as a Drow soon.Max out Shiradi Champion. Double Rainbow and the all the crowd controls. I did not choose to do the dodge route, so I did dancing arrow, pin and nerve toxin for crowd control. I am very used to it from running my AA, so the mechanics of pin vs dance is not so hard to master. And, whirling wrists or whatever it is called.High Dex is the key. You get damage, to hit and attack speed all from 1 stat. Then, con and wisdom. You need to make sure Wis is up a bit to benefit best from 10k stars. I would say 36 or higher. Your Dex should be around 50 or higher when you are all said and done. The downside is that you don't typically have the 800-900 hps that I see on my AA.It is a fun build though....

Firewall
11-02-2013, 12:51 PM
While Celestia is nice for the set bonus (and fully upgraded for the green slot) Rebellion from the Fall of Truth raid is an even better offhand option since it only takes one inventory slot and most of its bonuses are passive (sneak attack, armor piercing, threat reduction, improved deception) so they also work on your mainhand weapon. It also has a red slot for healing spellpower to use with cocoon. Treason from the Reaver raid is the low-level version of this so if you can get a hand on one of those i'd recommend to put them to good use. As a ranged character it is always good to have a Deception item ready.

Scrag
11-07-2013, 01:55 PM
While Celestia is nice for the set bonus (and fully upgraded for the green slot) Rebellion from the Fall of Truth raid is an even better offhand option since it only takes one inventory slot and most of its bonuses are passive (sneak attack, armor piercing, threat reduction, improved deception) so they also work on your mainhand weapon. It also has a red slot for healing spellpower to use with cocoon. Treason from the Reaver raid is the low-level version of this so if you can get a hand on one of those i'd recommend to put them to good use. As a ranged character it is always good to have a Deception item ready.

Hm.. It looks like, for someone under 20 and no access to rebellion or anything else fancy, that rahl's might or rebellion are the best options for offhand weapons. Both give greater cold resistance and have a ruby slot for devotion.

What exactly does devotion do for monks?

barecm
11-10-2013, 03:08 PM
Celestia adds a lot of aoe damage that rebellion does not. It procs a lot since you are hitting usually 3-4 times per attack. Rebellion is ok, but you can get armor piercing from Black Scale armor and imp deception from backstabber gloves etc. For a thrower build, Celestia is much, much better.

Firewall
11-10-2013, 03:31 PM
Celestia adds a lot of aoe damage that rebellion does not. It procs a lot since you are hitting usually 3-4 times per attack. Rebellion is ok, but you can get armor piercing from Black Scale armor and imp deception from backstabber gloves etc. For a thrower build, Celestia is much, much better.

Until i'm missing something all the weapon procs on Celestia only work if you attack with Celestia and not if you attack with a shuriken and have Celestia in your offhand because they are active bonuses which are applied to the weapon they are on. Most of the bonuses on Rebellion are passive bonuses and thus are applied to the wielder and not to the weapon so they work even if you attack with a throwing weapon. The sunburst you might see now and then comes from the double rainbow procs. Of course you can have some of the effects on other items but here you have the most benefits concentrated on one offhand weapon which also frees up item slots for other nice stuff.

Firewall
11-12-2013, 12:57 PM
Ok seems like i have to correct myself. I tested it today and it seems like Greater Sunburst and Fiery Detonation from Celestia are indeed functioning on the mainhand weapon. In addition to the Planar Focus set bonus i have to agree with barecm that this adds a nice bonus to damage.

thor360
11-17-2013, 10:34 PM
So, I have grouped with two of these shurimonks so far. Monks that do most, if not all, of their damage with a shuriken.

I am a pure drow monk, so I get +4 hit/dam with shuris anyway, and +chance to hit with extra stars equal to my dex. Since I am dex/con/wis based, with no str, this seems totally reasonable, as ninjaspy gives me dextodam with them. A brief unconfigured playtest at 18 with the level 16 elite Morning Star did noticeable damage, on the order of ~75dps perhaps. Given that it's heroic, and my gear is totally random, and I am not geared to do this in any way, I think it's not half bad.

However, how would I make a shurimonk work? And how/where do I get 10k stars from? I believe it was made a feat but I can't find it on ddowiki.

I am trying to maximize twf/shuri tossing to get the most out of my ninja spy and would love input from everyone, especially shurimonk builds. I have an lr 0 I will be using to reincarnate with and am level 19 with a +5 supreme tome. Any feat suggestions and ordering is really welcome. Thanks!

One shurimonk build I've created before is a class split of 9 monk, 8 rogue, 3 fighter.
Feats-
Monk: Adept stances (added to Grandmaster with feats.), 10K stars (level 6 monk feat.), Shuriken Expertice, and Monk feat toughness's(2).
Fighter: Dodge, Mobility, and Point Blank Shot. (Class Feats): Improved Evasion, AC.
Rogue: Precision and Precise Shot. (Class feats): Improved Dodge, Sneak attack.
(Epic Feats): 21-Epic toughness, 24-Improved Sneak attack, 26-28 are up to you.

Enhancments- Roughly you only need a few enhancements, the rest is up to you and what you prefer.
Rogue Assassin: Venomed Blades, Sneak Attack.
Monk Ninja Spy: Attack(Dex), Damage(Dex), Shadow Fade, Ninja Poison, and Poison Exploit (Not sure if that is the correct name but it is similar O.o)
Fighter Kensei: Attack/Damage (Monk Weapons)x3, Weapon Meditation, Haste Boost.

Races- I can only see this build being done either with Halfling or Human. Halfling would get more saves, and Dexterity, But human would be only shy +2 Dexterity and would gain Damage boost enhancement, and of course an extra feat.

Stats-
Halfling: Main skills are Diplomacy, UMD, DD, Search, Spot, Open Lock. Dump into Jump, Tumble, and Concentration. In Ultimate Water Stance.
Str-6
Dex-20
Int-12(14)
Con-14(16)
Wis-14
Cha-8

Human: Main skills are Diplomacy, UMD, DD, Search, Spot, Open Lock. Dump into Jump, Tumble, and Concentration. In Ultimate Water Stance.
Str-8
Dex-18
Int- 14
Con-14(16)
Wis-14(16)
Cha-8

This is just a draft of what I can remember, some things may need some work.

jb111
11-24-2013, 09:18 PM
One shurimonk build I've created before is a class split of 9 monk, 8 rogue, 3 fighter.
Feats-
Monk: Adept stances (added to Grandmaster with feats.), 10K stars (level 6 monk feat.), Shuriken Expertice, and Monk feat toughness's(2).
Fighter: Dodge, Mobility, and Point Blank Shot. (Class Feats): Improved Evasion, AC.
Rogue: Precision and Precise Shot. (Class feats): Improved Dodge, Sneak attack.
(Epic Feats): 21-Epic toughness, 24-Improved Sneak attack, 26-28 are up to you.

Enhancments- Roughly you only need a few enhancements, the rest is up to you and what you prefer.
Rogue Assassin: Venomed Blades, Sneak Attack.
Monk Ninja Spy: Attack(Dex), Damage(Dex), Shadow Fade, Ninja Poison, and Poison Exploit (Not sure if that is the correct name but it is similar O.o)
Fighter Kensei: Attack/Damage (Monk Weapons)x3, Weapon Meditation, Haste Boost.

Races- I can only see this build being done either with Halfling or Human. Halfling would get more saves, and Dexterity, But human would be only shy +2 Dexterity and would gain Damage boost enhancement, and of course an extra feat.

Stats-
Halfling: Main skills are Diplomacy, UMD, DD, Search, Spot, Open Lock. Dump into Jump, Tumble, and Concentration. In Ultimate Water Stance.
Str-6
Dex-20
Int-12(14)
Con-14(16)
Wis-14
Cha-8

Human: Main skills are Diplomacy, UMD, DD, Search, Spot, Open Lock. Dump into Jump, Tumble, and Concentration. In Ultimate Water Stance.
Str-8
Dex-18
Int- 14
Con-14(16)
Wis-14(16)
Cha-8

This is just a draft of what I can remember, some things may need some work.

I have a level 20 human monk that could lesser TR to try Shurimonk. Shiradi and GMOF destinies are maxed. I just need to work on getting a good shuriken. Do you think human would be a viable endgame choice? Does anyone have a build I can peek at? If not I will try and use Firewall's and change the race benefits. Thanks.

cdr
11-24-2013, 09:57 PM
I have a level 20 human monk that could lesser TR to try Shurimonk. Shiradi and GMOF destinies are maxed. I just need to work on getting a good shuriken. Do you think human would be a viable endgame choice? Does anyone have a build I can peek at? If not I will try and use Firewall's and change the race benefits. Thanks.

Take a look at https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431022-Shurikens-pew-pew! if you haven't.

Darkrok
11-25-2013, 12:58 AM
Take a look at https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431022-Shurikens-pew-pew! if you haven't.

My son's been playing a human version of this one taking the dragonmark of passage and spending just enough ap in human to get the ddoor ability. He's completely ungeared at level 21 (basically just what we've found in chests) and still holding his own. It really just takes a nice shuriken (we ran a few challenges in eveningstar to get him a couple spelltouched) and you're all set.

As for other builds, really here's what you need:
Feats: Shuriken Expertise, Quick Draw, 10k Stars, Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Critical: Thrown, Precision, Epic: Combat Archery
Classes: Monk 6 to qualify for 10k stars. Ranger and Rogue levels can be decent for dips into DWS and Mechanist for increased point blank shot/sneak attack range.
Stats: Max dex, as much wisdom as you can after that. It's viable to go max wisdom if you have compelling reasons to do so (ie viable stunning fist/quivering palm, etc). It's been shown to be slightly less damage and rate of fire but could be an acceptable trade-off for certain builds.
Race: Doesn't really matter. Drow get free Shuriken Expertise and can spend AP to boost weapon damage by 1 for 2ap per tier. Halflings, Shadar Kai, and Half Elves can get move sneak damage. Humans get the extra feat and skill points.

Beyond this framework it all depends on what you'd like to do. Most builds will have some free feats - I could see bringing in dodge, toughness, magical training (would be handy for the 5% crit for shiradi procs and extra spell points and spell point regen for cocoon). In addition to the 12 monk/4 ranger/4 rogue listed in that link I could see 10 rogue (with either improved evasion or opportunist)/6 monk/4 ranger being fun as well as 11 ranger/6 monk/3 rogue. All of these variations would allow you to handle trapping duties, have all the toys for shuriken damage, and fulfill a past life in each of the three classes involved.

Of particular note is that the ranger version would have much more viable twf options, free feats beyond belief (3 of our 9 required feats come for free from ranger levels), and could therefore be a strong option to go wisdom-based, incorporate a viable stunning fist with gTWF, toss in 1 additional feat beyond stunning fist for improved critical: bludgeoning, and basically have both melee and thrown covered. You'd most likely want to pick up Master of Forms and Grandmaster of Forms so the feats would be tight there but with only 6 heroic feats left that need taken from our list above and 3 monk feats to use we can do it with a human and even pick up Power Attack (feat list Power Attack, Shuriken Expertise, Quick Draw, 10k (monk), Rapid Shot (Granted), PBS, Precise Shot (Granted), IPS (Granted), iCrit: Thrown, iCrit Bludgeoning, Precision (Monk), TWF Line (granted), Stunning Fist (monk), Master of Forms, Grandmaster of Forms). Not sure I'd personally sell out for that much melee on a build like this but it could definitely be made to work. Stats would lean to maxing wisdom and then getting as much dex as possible.

jb111
11-25-2013, 09:46 AM
Thanks guys. These look like excellent templates and I like the Ddoor option. I have +4 and +5 tomes <-IE Dex. Equipment is above average. I do like TWF (have antipode and grave wraps) but willing to give up some of that to max the ranged. My biggest challenge will be picking the feats. The online character builder is weird - does it still work for feats since U20? The second biggest challenge will be going from the mentality of buffing up, going into Grandmaster mountain and fighting small armies up close. I envision a Shuri monk would run backwards a lot, run around and use tab key to select targets. My long term will be to get the offhand weapon for bonuses - did not select Celestia when I got battlebox :( Is there a clever substitute in the AH I can use until I earn the big one? Noticed some are taking 2 levels of Arti to get Rune Arms. Once I make a level 20 spell touched shuriken, can it be upgraded to level 24 as I level up?

One other question: Does cocoon require you be a caster? Thx

Darkrok
11-25-2013, 11:13 AM
Noticed some are taking 2 levels of Arti to get Rune Arms.

I don't think you could get the Advanced Ninja Spy dex-to-damage portion for the shurikens as it requires you to be centered which a rune arm forbids. If you're not getting dex-to-damage then selling out for dex to increase your rate of fire no longer makes sense from a build perspective.


Once I make a level 20 spell touched shuriken, can it be upgraded to level 24 as I level up?

As far as I know you can not. That said it's not *that* bad to craft another one. You just have to hope you get lucky on the spelltouched lottery. :)


One other question: Does cocoon require you be a caster? Thx

Yes and no. It requires a blue bar. You can get that in a lot of ways. I would recommend if you don't bother with the melee feats prioritizing Magical Training as a feat. It would be a very effective way to get extra blue bar for cocoon and gives you unlimited cocoons every 18 seconds thanks to echoes of power.

EDIT:

I envision a Shuri monk would run backwards a lot, run around and use tab key to select targets.

Yes although in epic levels it's far more effective to use Shiradi's options - especially in a group - to act as secondary crowd control. Get a tendon slice dun robar ring, get the shimmering arrowhead from Weapon Shipment for crippling, use Pin/Otto's Whistler from Shiradi, and you can lock down or at least slow down a ton of mobs. Your rate of fire will be better than archers trying to do the same thing (outside of manyshot) so you should be highly effective at all of those responsibilities.

jb111
11-25-2013, 11:38 AM
I don't think you...
Excellent tips. I happen to have a tendon slice dun robar ring and simply need to get back to level 21 to utilize it and some other nasty gear. Arrowhead does not sound too hard to get but will have to figure out something in the meantime. I usually have Guidance of Shar for blurry and switch to Pale Green Ioun Stone for end of quest XP. At lower level, used Greater Bold Trinket - in combo with Drow googles, pretty nice for melee. What goggles do you suggest? Here is my other gear:
Sun Soul set
Drow Cloak (silent, hide, sneak)
Ogre gloves (could switch with Backstabber's Gloves for deception)
Deadly/Accuracy necklace
Deathblock/Natural Armor helm
Woodsman boots (change to Treads at level 23)
Fort / Protection Ring

Any suggestions for offhand weapon?
Thank you

Darkrok
11-25-2013, 12:30 PM
What goggles do you suggest?

With the way gear is in the game right now it's more taking what you can get easily and fitting in key things like +dex, +wis, +con, fortification, healing amp, deadly, resistance, etc. Work around what you have and don't sweat things too much.

Check your Inbox for weapon suggestions.

Scrag
11-26-2013, 04:47 PM
Any suggestions for offhand weapon?
Thank you

There is only 1 option for offhand weapon: Celestia. This was discussed at length in another shurimonk thread, and ultimately, the off-weapon procs that celestia provides are just too good to pass up.

As for bluebar for cocoon, you are running in a shiradi stance; That gives you a fat 100 spellpoints for free. It was sufficient enough for me to go through an excessively nasty end fight in an elite quest without a dedicated healer, keeping my druid partymate upright and trying to do stuff while I backpedaled endlessly flinging stars, pining things, and procing all sorts of junk. For reference, this was the epic druids curse quest.

Running around backwards with IPS turned on is great, as long as you constantly swap targets to hit whatever is farthest from you to ensure multiple hits and drive up proc rate.

jb111
11-26-2013, 09:06 PM
There is only 1 option for offhand weapon: Celestia...
Thanks Scrag. I am a casual player and just reincarnated so it will be a while (4-5 months) before I will get my hands on one. Rest assured I will :)

TeacherSyn
11-27-2013, 07:29 AM
There is only 1 option for offhand weapon: Celestia. This was discussed at length in another shurimonk thread, and ultimately, the off-weapon procs that celestia provides are just too good to pass up.

As for bluebar for cocoon, you are running in a shiradi stance; That gives you a fat 100 spellpoints for free. It was sufficient enough for me to go through an excessively nasty end fight in an elite quest without a dedicated healer, keeping my druid partymate upright and trying to do stuff while I backpedaled endlessly flinging stars, pining things, and procing all sorts of junk. For reference, this was the epic druids curse quest.

Running around backwards with IPS turned on is great, as long as you constantly swap targets to hit whatever is farthest from you to ensure multiple hits and drive up proc rate.

I just reached 23 and added Celestia to my off-hand with Double Rainbow active.

HO-LEE-CRIPES, that's fun. I'm not sure if any of my guildies have seen this build in action, so when they keep seeing explosions, they might start to ask. Now to get any other off-hand/passive effects going, like Manslayer. Seems everyone has a pair of Drow Smoke Goggles but me. Third chain run's a charm, then--especially when bosses evaporate from Celestia, Crushing Wave and Double Rainbow procs.

jb111
11-27-2013, 02:26 PM
I am human with 2 past monk lives and plan to lesser reincarnate to a 12Monk/4Ranger/4Rogue (9M/4Ranger/7Rogue looks interesting as well - more sneak damage). Does anyone know which planner is best? Ron's vs DDOChargen I tried this build with Ron's planner and it seemed like feats were not matching https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431022-Shurikens-pew-pew
I am nervous about doing it and borking things up (only have one +20 tome). For a ranged Shuri build does it make sense to take Past Life Feat - Monk? I think it means +2 damage and the ability to go into evasion mode.