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thesnoman
10-28-2013, 10:40 AM
DUE TO IMPENDING CHANGES TO DIVINE GRACE, I HAVE A NEW BUILD POSTED ON PAGE 7 (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429261-Toaster-of-Vengeance?p=5482419&viewfull=1#post5482419) - POST #135 IN THIS THREAD. I WILL BE LEAVING THE THREAD INTACT FOR POSTERITY.

Build Goals

#1 Sustainable DPS - Since U17 Casters have had a few problems - A) their Blue Bars just don't last long enough to solo B) Their DPS in a group just wasn't high enough to contribute without burning their Blue Bars early in a quest (and in some cases, just wasn't high enough at all)

#2 Defenses - While Defense may not seem to be of high importance on a caster build, I assure you that with this build you will grab enough Aggro that it becomes important. Perma-Blur, Displace, high saves, incorporeality, and dodge all make you more survivable at end game.

#3 Self Sufficiency - Quickened Reconstruct - It's been the same for all WF Sorcerers for a long time.

#4 Utility - Being able to scroll resurrect and the occasional heal makes you invaluable in a group. You won't be as effective a Kiter as an air savant, monk, or FvS (all with wings). but you should be able to hold your own.

I give you the Toaster of Vengeance!

Brief Overview:
Lawful Good Warforged
14 Sorc/4 FvS/2 Pally
Leveling Order: SSSSSSFFSSSSSSSSPPFF

This Leveling order is so you can get Fireball as quickly as possible and then start gaining the extra fire spell power from Angel of Vengeance. You can move the remaining Pally and FvS levels around, but I found that getting the Sorc levels sooner is better.

You also don't want to take your Pally levels last as it will require you to spend extra skill points in Spell Power as it is not a class skill for Paladin.

Up to Level 20, this build is very powerful. It becomes a bit more difficult once you get into The Vale since you are relying on Fire Spells and Shavarath is nearly impossible until you get into your Epic Levels and can run in Shiradi.

There are ways around this since it is easy to swap around your enhancements and use Air, Earth, or Water Savant - you just need to use a Blood of Dragons to swap around your spells and then either use another to swap them back or your free lesser reincarnation to swap everything back.

You can also just skip certain quests since there is plenty of XP available to get to 20.

You will use scrolls and potions to heal yourself until you get reconstruct.Once you have reconstruct, you are basically un-killable as long as you have a blue bar.

SO FAR:

Pros: Self Sufficient and Ultra Survivable with great DPS and a blue bar that just keeps on going and going and going

Cons: No high level Sorc Spells if you're used to using them. No Wings. No KD Immunity.

EDITOR's NOTE: I have reincarnated this build into a Bladeforged. I haven't had a whole lot of time to play this toon and I'm just hitting Level 24. So far, the Bladeforged version is superior to the basic Warforged Build, but only slightly. The biggest change in the build is your initial allocation of Stat Points. You actually allocate the points exactly the same as Warforged, but due to the difference in Stat penalties between WF and BF, you can max your Charisma to 18, but you only get 8 in your Dexterity. Leveling also changes slightly since you start at Level 15. I took 2 Pally, 2 FvS, 11 Sorcerer to get to 15. Levels 16-18 were Sorc and 19-20 FvS. Other than these minor changes, there really isn't any difference between playing a WF and BF Toaster of Vengeance.

thesnoman
10-28-2013, 10:40 AM
Toaster of Vengeance, Lawful Good Warforged: 14 SORCERER / 4 FAVORED SOUL / 2 PALADIN w/ Shiradi Champion

STARTING STATS 36-point build
STRENGTH - Warforged: 10 Bladeforged: 10
DEXTERITY - Warforged: 10 Bladeforged: 8
CONSTITUTION - Warforged: 18 Bladeforged: 18
INTELLIGENCE - Warforged: 14 Bladeforged: 14
WISDOM - Warforged: 6 Bladeforged: 6
CHARISMA - Warforged: 16 Bladeforged: 18 (All Level Ups go here)

Final Stats (Base - No Buffs, only the gear that is listed later in this post)

STRENGTH - 24 (+4 Tome)
DEXTERITY - 23 (+5 Tome) Have +7 Dex in Boots Slot - will Upgrade to +8 when I can to even out this Stat
CONSTITUTION - 37 (+5 Tome) May drop 4th Racial Enhancement and add toughness enhancements
INTELLIGENCE - 31 (+4 Tome) Need +5 Tome
WISDOM - 16 (+3 Tome)
CHARISMA - 46 (+5 Tome)



Tomes: I have a pile of Tomes on this toon - they're not necessary, but it's very helpful to have +3 or higher in Charisma, Intelligence, and Constitution.

Past Lives: This can be a first life build - it's easier to have a 36-point build and at least one Sorc past life, but it's not required. Basically Anything you add to this build will make it stronger, so more is always better. I will be building this toon assuming 36-point Starting Stats. For less, remove points from Dex, Int, Con, and Str.

FEATS
Toughness (More HPs is Better)
Empower Spell
Maximize Spell
Quicken Spell
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness
Completionist or Past Life Feat - Sorc and Wizard work well (if available - Can be swapped for Extend Spell or an additional Toughness)

Epic Toughness (21)
Epic Mental Toughness (24)
Epic Spellpower: Fire (26)
Epic Spellpower: Force (28) (Can substitute Hellball here)

SKILL POINTS
Concentration (23)
Spellcraft(23)
Repair(22 = 11)
UMD (10 = 5)
Tumble (2 = 1)
Choice of : Diplomacy, Perform, Haggle for your remaining points.

TWISTS
4. Energy Burst/Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Draconic Incarnation / Tier 4 FoTW)
1. Endless Faith/Perfect Balance (Tier 1 Exhalted Angel / Tier 1 GMoF)
1. Unearthly Reactions/Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Magister)

Bold is what I've been primarily running in

SAVES (UnBuffed)
Fortitude - 54
Reflex - 50
Will - 46

HIT POINTS (UnBuffed)
742

SPELL POINTS (UnBuffed)
3609

SPELL POWER (UnBuffed)
Acid: 287
Cold: 247
Electric: 327
Fire: 399*
Force: 367*
Light: 287
Negative: 232
Positive: 232
Repair: 285*
Sonic: 281

*These are the primary spells you will be casting with this build, so you'll want them as high as possible.

Spells
Sorcerer
Level 1 - Magic Missile, Jump, Shield, Feather Fall
Level 2 - Scorching Ray, Gust of Wind, Knock, Invisibility/Spawn Screen*
Level 3 - Chain Missile, Fireball, Displacement, Lightning Bolt
Level 4 - Force Missile, Dimension Door, Solid Fog, Ice Storm
Level 5 - Eldars Electric Surge, Niac's Biting Cold, Protection From Elements
Level 6 - Greater Heroism, Reconstruct
Level 7 - Delayed Blast Fireball

FvS
Level 1 - Bless, Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith
Level 2 - Lesser Restoration/Spawn Screen*

Bold/Italic - These spells are essential
* - Lesser Restoration is nice to have early in the game and if you Solo (gotta love Constitution Damage), but it can be swapped for Spawn Screen (Yes Spawn Screen - this is to mitigate the mass Trash that spawns in Fall of Truth when someone dies). If you Swap Lesser Restoration for Spawn Screen (FvS), you can swap Spaen Screen for Invisibility (Sorc). Either way - if you plan on running FoT, make sure you have Spawn Screen.


GEAR
Ahhh - Gear...the most debatable and most difficult part of any build. I'm going to try to make this gear list as simple to acquire as possible. I'm also going to try to steer clear of randomly generated loot as it is very hard to acquire and more towards gear that has guaranteed drops at some point. (With the recent Raider's Box release, Twilight is an easy one for all casters)

HELM: Helm of the Blue Dragon +3 Charisma OR +3 Intelligence Version (Green Slot: False Life +40 Yellow Slot: Globe of True Imperial Blood )
NECKLACE: Stolen Necklace +19 Spellcraft version (Yellow Slot: Vitality +20 )
GOGGLES: Sage's Goggles (Colorless Slot: +2 Constitution )
TRINKET: Planar Focus of Erudition (+3 Charisma OR +3 Intelligence Version - opposite of helm)
ARMOR: Flawless Blue Dragonscale Docent (Blue Slot: Fortification 100% )
CLOAK: Jeweled Cloak (Green Slot:Protection +8 Yellow Slot: Draconic Soul Gem )
BRACERS: Sage's Cuffs
BELT: Health +9 Belt of Dodge 9% (Colorless Slot: Strength +7) Would Like a Health +10 of Dodge X% with a slot to even out my Con.
RING1: Ring of Shadows (Yellow Slot: Sonic Resist 30 ) Ring of the Djinn for Fall of Truth
RING2: Ring of Deceit (Yellow Slot: Deathblock Colorless Slot: +2 Strength )
BOOTS: Spiked Boots (Green Slot: Resistance +7/8 Yellow Slot: Dexterity +7 )
GLOVES: Greensteel Concordant Opposition (This may change - I'm trying to determine if I need Con-Op)
QUIVER: Quiver of Alacrity

WEAPON: Twilight, Element of Magic (Red Slot: Reconstruction 114)

__________________________________________________ ______________________

I Just Level 28 - I'm still testing out gear variations. Slots are at a premium on this build so it is taking me a long time to completely work out the gear - at this time my AC is only 42, but I've got 15% Dodge, Perma-blur, and Incorporiality) I've given up on PRR and Natural Armor unless I can find exactly the right set of gloves that have a green augment slot on them. I think that the gear is set (Until they increase cap to Level 30 or add more high end gear)

thesnoman
10-28-2013, 10:41 AM
Now that I can post pictures here in the Sorcerer Forums here's the enhancements for the Toaster of Vengeance.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5550/10969063443_29bff76859.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3794/10970797753_44eaf69211.jpg

IF YOU HAVE AN ODD NUMBER IN YOUR CONSTITUTION, DO NOT TAKE THE 4TH CORE ABILITY AND USE THE 2 POINTS IN ELDRITCH KNIGHT TOUGHNESS

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5484/10968891926_22feaf538f_c.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3749/10970553725_31a45cd3c7.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2878/10970648026_8910b1c249.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7420/10970798423_fe3f87f082.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5502/10970798373_770b9e3dcf.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2841/10970648146_1f27a2db1d.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5485/10970798413_27f1032282.jpg



Explainations:

Core Abilities give you a base 75% Fortification and an additional +2 Constitution

Fire Savant:

Max your fire spell power and Spell Crit chance.
Grab an additional +10 Force Spell Power at Tier 5
Immolation!!!
Fanning the Flames = free Spell Points

AoV:

Synergy with Fire Savant is great
Max Fire/Force Spell Crit Chance
Just Reward = MORE Free Spell Points
Scourge = More Spell Power for Fire/Force
Spell Power Boost = Even MORE Spell Power

Eldritch Knight:

You're really after the Second Core Enhancement for an additional +10 Force Spell Power
Bonus = +5 HP from toghness and +3 to Spellcraft and Concentration from Battle Mage

smalltree
10-31-2013, 06:59 AM
Hello mate I was thinking of doing this exact thing today. Im new to casters and ive just trd my firt sorc. Would this be a good second life build or should I wait for third life?

Hawkwier
10-31-2013, 07:05 AM
Nice build but I think you'll find that Fridge of Doom build is better dps, and manages to fit in Manyshot?

Just sayin...

thesnoman
11-01-2013, 08:42 AM
Nice build but I think you'll find that Fridge of Doom build is better dps, and manages to fit in Manyshot?

Just sayin...

Ummmm... hmmmm... ahhhhh....

OK - not sure where you were going with that comment. The build isn't even posted and Why would you want Manydhot on a build like this.

Or maybe you're being facetious?

thesnoman
11-01-2013, 08:44 AM
Hello mate I was thinking of doing this exact thing today. Im new to casters and ive just trd my firt sorc. Would this be a good second life build or should I wait for third life?


Should be OK as second life, but if you don't plan on staying in Epic content for long and just want to TR I'd just go Fire up to Level 16 or so and then change over to Ice/Air to get you to 20 and TR.

This build also really requires that you've opened up the Shiradi Tree once you're in Epic Content.

smalltree
11-01-2013, 09:18 AM
Ahhh ok. Think I will try 18sorc/2fvs this life and then when i have unlocked shiradi ill tr into this build.

Hawkwier
11-03-2013, 12:01 AM
Ummmm... hmmmm... ahhhhh....

OK - not sure where you were going with that comment. The build isn't even posted and Why would you want Manydhot on a build like this.

Or maybe you're being facetious?

My bad! :)

With no content posted I thought this was a spoof thread. My response was just that!

thesnoman
11-07-2013, 08:19 PM
My bad! :)

With no content posted I thought this was a spoof thread. My response was just that!


Ahhh...would've been a good spoof thread. Still leveling (yes I'm slow - I have a 1 month old taking away time from DDO) but I should have more on this build up this weekend.

thesnoman
11-16-2013, 08:52 AM
UPDATED INFO IN FIRST 2 POSTS - Will add enhancement trees as soon as I figure out why all of my threads have [IMG] code off.

Sehenry03
11-16-2013, 05:19 PM
Ok so I was going over your shiradi sorc build in your other post and was anticipating going 2 pally but am thinking I might go this build. I will have 3 sorc past lives and 1 wiz and 1 fvs.

would you recommend this shiradi build over the others after playing it now?

Zotze
11-18-2013, 11:08 AM
Check this out:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427245-Post-U19-Shiradi-Sorc-the-never-ending-missile-spam

I would like to know for what u are using Empower and Quicken? no need for both on this build... also i use only my maximize with ruin and cause i had no other feat that would have been worth to take instead of it.
Better go for Dodge, i have over 20% Dodge.

Also Endless Faith as Twist is what u never need again, most of your spells are free cause of nearly over 90% 10 temp.SP.

EDIT: Quicken for Recon right? Forgot about that, thats ok, but i think u can get better Feats for Empower/Maximize. Normal Recon will be high enough.

Sehenry03
11-18-2013, 11:52 AM
I believe max/empower is for shiradi procs more then anything

thesnoman
11-19-2013, 09:21 AM
Check this out:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427245-Post-U19-Shiradi-Sorc-the-never-ending-missile-spam

I would like to know for what u are using Empower and Quicken? no need for both on this build... also i use only my maximize with ruin and cause i had no other feat that would have been worth to take instead of it.
Better go for Dodge, i have over 20% Dodge.

Also Endless Faith as Twist is what u never need again, most of your spells are free cause of nearly over 90% 10 temp.SP.

EDIT: Quicken for Recon right? Forgot about that, thats ok, but i think u can get better Feats for Empower/Maximize. Normal Recon will be high enough.


I played the max dodge build - check out this thread (also mine):

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423546-U19-Shiradi-Sorc-The-Good-the-bad-and-the-OMFG!!


Yes - Quickened Reconstruct - a must have for WF.

Max/Empower are for the Shiradi Procs - makes a Boom! proc into a BIG BADABOOM!!! proc. Basically you run with Max/Emp turned on and then, in your bar, turn Max/Emp ALWAYS OFF on the missile spam spells (MM, CM, FM, SR) The spells cost the measly SP amount that they normally do, but the Procs tick off the maximize and empower. Plus, Max/Emp always on for DBFB, (for clearing rooms - provided they don't evade), for Ice Storm, (again - procs tick off the Max/Emp), and for Eldars Surge and Niacs Biting Cold (soloing TOR Black Dragon).

Plus - I've moved a few things around for enhancements - leveraging a bit of Eldrich Knight to get a bit more force spell power (and HPs because it's all that's worth taking in Tier 1).

Overall, I like this build better for end game than the dodge build. After all - you don't have to dodge what's already dead. :)

Endless Faith is really only for soloing EE WGU - I just unlocked the second T2 twist (so now T4/T2/T1) and I'm playing with what twists I'll have in there most often.

Zotze
11-19-2013, 10:13 AM
Basically you run with Max/Emp turned on and then, in your bar, turn Max/Emp ALWAYS OFF on the missile spam spells (MM, CM, FM, SR) The spells cost the measly SP amount that they normally do, but the Procs tick off the maximize and empower.

Never heared of that before - does that really work ? Tested the damage with max/emp off and on ? Somewhere confirmed ?
If yes, that would be for true a real boost and better then 5% more Dodge or something else...

thesnoman
11-19-2013, 03:05 PM
Never heared of that before - does that really work ? Tested the damage with max/emp off and on ? Somewhere confirmed ?
If yes, that would be for true a real boost and better then 5% more Dodge or something else...


It was explained to me that it has been tested and confirmed by multiple sources. I personally believe it does work, but I'll have to do some of my own testing tonight (I think all of my caster gear is ready to go as I'm still sitting on L27) - maybe I'll make a trip to see Sobrien a few times tonight and really test it out.

thesnoman
11-19-2013, 09:15 PM
It was explained to me that it has been tested and confirmed by multiple sources. I personally believe it does work, but I'll have to do some of my own testing tonight (I think all of my caster gear is ready to go as I'm still sitting on L27) - maybe I'll make a trip to see Sobrien a few times tonight and really test it out.


I have tested and confirmed that Max/Empower work on Shiradi Procs even if they are turned off on the base spell.

Test Method 1 Prism Stance:

Sobrien on Claw Of Vulkoor. Since damage is very unpredictable while in Prism, I only cast Scorching Ray - this allowed me to see only the damage from Procs since Sobrien is immune to fire spells.

There was no marked difference between average damage of procs cast with Max/Empower on and the spell set to any of the settings Always Off, Always On, and Standard while in Prism Stance. When Max/Emp were turned off there was a marked difference in damage of procs while in Always Off/Standard vs. Always On

Test Method 2 Stay Frosty Stance:

Again Sobrien, but I used a combination of spells to make testing faster. To eliminate any odd damage that may have occurred from any of the other random procs, I focused entirely on the Ice Damage since it pops in purple numbers against Sobrien and is easy to pick out.

This was easy - While leaving both Magic Missile and Force Missile in "Always Off" I toggled Max/Emp on and off and focused entirely on the Ice Damage.

FIRST FIGHT: With Max/Emp OFF, Average Damage was in the 180 -230 range with the lowest number recorded at 108 and the highest at 468.

SECOND FIGHT: With Max/Emp ON, Average Damage was in the 280 - 320 range with the lowest recorded number at 228 and the highest recorded number at 848.

Third and Forth Fights: Toggled Max/Emp on and off thoughout the fight. Much less scientific and I didn't record numbers, but it is apparent that when Max and Emp are turned on and the spells are set to "Always Off" Procs are affected by the metamagic feats.


Again - this is easiest tested with "Stay Frosty" since the frosty procs are purple on Sobrien and are easy to pick out. Prism/Double Rainbow is much harder to tell what damage is multiplied and what isn't, but it is blatantly obvious that Max/Emp effect the damage of Shiradi Procs even when they are turned off on the spell itself.

thesnoman
11-20-2013, 07:47 PM
Enhancements done - comments on the build appreciated.

Sehenry03
11-20-2013, 07:50 PM
So how would you now compare this build to an 18/2 air savant/paladin?

I am about to lvl to 7 and not sure which way I want to go.

in short if you were to start all over which build would you prefer?

thesnoman
11-21-2013, 06:19 AM
So how would you now compare this build to an 18/2 air savant/paladin?
<snip>
in short if you were to start all over which build would you prefer?

Both are good builds - they're just...different.

18/2 is a bit more forgiving survivability-wise since you have knockdown immunity and wings. (You can still get knocked down - it's just far less frequently than 14/4/2)

Once you're through Gianthold, KD immunity is far less important. For the newest content, 14/4/2 build far outstrips 18/2 just for the infinite blue bar and much higher damage output from Scorching Ray and your other fire spells (DBFB for example)

Personally I prefer the higher damage output and nearly infinite blue bar of the 14/4/2 build, but I sometimes do miss wings and KD immunity (soloing Partycrashers - the Giant in there is a Knockdown machine - and personally I think he's bugged because he moves at double speed all the time)

Revolted
11-21-2013, 07:41 PM
The build seems pretty solid! I'm on my 1st life as a caster since, well, ever, and I decided to try this out. right now i'm at level 7 with 1k sp's, which I think it's pretty impressive. the damage output is really nice, and, as I have a huge mana pool I can keep it coming... Don't have any gear for the toon as I never did neither a caster nor a Warforged, so it kinda is a bit harder, but, at least until now, it didn't show up. I might replace one of the feats (probably the PL, as I don't have access to it) for Dodge. +3% seems a fair trade.
One question:
1- As you didn't use the racial enhancement for the arcane spell failure, won't it be kinda bad in the future? There is any other way around it?

So far, so good! Really excited about it ;)

Nabuchadnezzar83
11-22-2013, 02:52 AM
I'm going to play the 18/2 pally variant with a bladeforged, and since it's first life, I take ADAMANTINE body instead of the past life. Racial Reconstruct is also a welcomed addition, freeing up a level 6 spell for chain lightning.
Between racial enhancements and EK, I can get the spell failure down to 0%, then I take improved mage armor SLA and improved shield SLA for even more survivability through high AC and PRR.
This game has plenty of shrines, so perhaps I can just burn through my blue bar and rest when needed. A torc is also needed in this case. Thoughts?

thesnoman
11-22-2013, 05:24 AM
One question:
1- As you didn't use the racial enhancement for the arcane spell failure, won't it be kinda bad in the future? There is any other way around it?



This is the beauty of Eldritch Knight:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3774/10992364296_ba97da8dbb_z.jpg

Since Enhancements are so easy to change, just take the core enhancement until you get tier 2 Eldritch Knight. Since the Racial Tree has so little in it, it only costs like 2 - 3K Plat to reset it.

As for the feat swap - Dodge isn't a bad choice, but I'd probably pick up Extend - if only for Displacement.

thesnoman
11-22-2013, 06:26 AM
I'm going to play the 18/2 pally variant with a bladeforged, and since it's first life, I take ADAMANTINE body instead of the past life. Racial Reconstruct is also a welcomed addition, freeing up a level 6 spell for chain lightning.
Between racial enhancements and EK, I can get the spell failure down to 0%, then I take improved mage armor SLA and improved shield SLA for even more survivability through high AC and PRR.
This game has plenty of shrines, so perhaps I can just burn through my blue bar and rest when needed. A torc is also needed in this case. Thoughts?


Since I personally think AC is worthless in EE content (and I primarily play EE) Adamantine body really does nothing for me. I'd spend the Feat on Extend (for Buffs). It really is a pain in the rear end to have to cast Displacement every minute and a half (I may drop PL:Sorc for this at some point - just to try it out)

Frezar14
11-23-2013, 07:56 AM
Really cool build. However, I'm not much of a warforged player. Do you think this would work for human? Probably wouldn't need quicken. Any other thoughts if this would be viable for a fleshie? Thanks again for posting the build.

thesnoman
11-23-2013, 10:27 AM
The fleshie version works best as a Half Elf w/ Pally Dilli.You then go 16/4 SOrc/Fvs. Here's a Link: Raidon's End Game Builds (http://www.stormlords.net/forum_threads/1557902?post=8693821#forum_post_8693821)

Sehenry03
11-25-2013, 06:33 PM
Is there any reason I shouldn't tr into a blade forged paladin? Seems like he would have +2 cha amongst other things. Do 14/4/2 Sorc/FvS/Pal. Is this the best warforged version or am I not understanding iconics correctly? I have yet to play one =)

thesnoman
11-26-2013, 06:03 AM
Is there any reason I shouldn't tr into a blade forged paladin? Seems like he would have +2 cha amongst other things. Do 14/4/2 Sorc/FvS/Pal. Is this the best warforged version or am I not understanding iconics correctly? I have yet to play one =)


There's really no reason not to TR into a Bladeforged for this build...just adjust your starting stats by +2 Charisma and -2 Dex. I started this build before you could TR into Iconics, so at the time it wasn't an option.

thesnoman
11-27-2013, 06:23 AM
With +5 Constitution Tome (or +3), I've removed the 4th Racial Core ability and moved it over to Toughness in Eldritch Knight. This = a tiny bit more Spell Power and More HPs.

If I can find the PERFECT belt (Health+10 with Dodge and a slot) I'd switch back, but for now this keeps my Constitution at an even number and I only gained by moving it.

GrantAnderson
11-28-2013, 11:51 AM
Given I'm already at Sor13/Pal2, would you recommend taking FvS levels next for the benefits to the blue bar, or the last Sorc level to get my DBF?

thesnoman
12-01-2013, 07:14 AM
Take your last Sorc level and then take FvS. DBFB is just too nice to delay at this point.

Really, the only thing that matters in this build is that you don't wait to take Pally as the last 2 levels since it mucks up your skill points (Spellcraft is not a Pally skill).

Acaios
12-01-2013, 03:58 PM
very interesting build.
what exactly is raised by the raise of 3 caster levels from the tier4 of angel of vengeance? dbf, disintegrate are the profound spells that are affected. is any of the spells you mainly use as a shiradi (scorching ray and all the missiles) or any of the shiradi procs that get affected by that raise? as for the ray and missiles, i think not. as for the procs, i have no idea.
dbf is nice, but so far, i`m mainly using it on e/n and e/h xp and coms farming. on e/e i stick to the missiles and rays. i`m just saying that, coz spending 6 AP isnt a small deal. if it doesnt affect any serious shiradi DPS, i`d tottaly give the AP for some PRR from warpriest or EK.
or perhaps get one more sorc lvl, for 3 more spells slots at the cost of 2% fire and force crit.

another idea about the weapons. i`m thinking to get sages goggles + impulse of kinetic lore one handed (resonance) + balizarde(reconstruct) + blue/red planar focus (for dps/prr)

edit:
about the 15%weakness of tier 5 fire sorc.
i feel like by the time i`m done casting it, i could have fired 3 more spells instead.
is anyone at the same page, or is it just me? ...yeah, purple numbers look cool, but..
i`m feeling like droping it (including the 10 force SP), and some points in efficient empower or maximize that had to be spent for unlocking tier5.
and invest them on EK core 1,2 and tier 1,2 (fire spell power, HP, spellcraft, prr, shield clicky-frees one lvl1 slot)
and/or warpriest core1 and tier1,2 for fire spellpower, toughness, prr.

Haphazarduk
12-02-2013, 02:43 AM
I understand that none of the SLAs, not max/emp are required once you've got Shiradi but would you take whilst you were levelling to 20? I don't see a way to get decent damage output otherwise...

thesnoman
12-02-2013, 07:45 AM
I understand that none of the SLAs, not max/emp are required once you've got Shiradi but would you take whilst you were levelling to 20? I don't see a way to get decent damage output otherwise...

I did take Burning Hands SLA while levelling, but that's it. Once you have Fireball, you don't need much else until you hit the Vale.

Spells are interchangeable while leveling - it doesn't take much to move them around. (Blood of Dragons is fairly easy to get, or just pay and wait)


what exactly is raised by the raise of 3 caster levels from the tier4 of angel of vengeance?

Mostly this is for DBFB - it's amazing in higher level content against non-evading targets. You also get an additional missile from Chain missile (10 missiles at caster level 19).


dbf is nice, but so far, i`m mainly using it on e/n and e/h xp and coms farming.
It's also great against certain bosses.


about the 15%weakness of tier 5 fire sorc. i feel like by the time i`m done casting it, i could have fired 3 more spells instead.
is anyone at the same page, or is it just me? ...yeah, purple numbers look cool, but..
i`m feeling like droping it (including the 10 force SP), and some points in efficient empower or maximize that had to be spent for unlocking tier5.
and invest them on EK core 1,2 and tier 1,2 (fire spell power, HP, spellcraft, prr, shield clicky-frees one lvl1 slot)
and/or warpriest core1 and tier1,2 for fire spellpower, toughness, prr.

Again - for trash this is useless, but for bosses it's amazing. I know that the current end game really doesn't have much for bosses...it's masses of trash.

Reality is this - if you don't like DBFB, you'll not need Efficient Max/Emp and you won't benefit from 15% Fire Weakness as much as if you do use it regularly. Different play styles for different players. That's the beauty of DDO.

The same goes for weapons. Do what you'd like - I tried to keep it simple without getting too deep into Lootgen items. Lootgen items are just too much of a pain to acquire. (I've picked up/given away multiple Twilights and still haven't picked up a max/max 1-handed impulse/kinetic lore weapon)

Acaios
12-02-2013, 09:12 AM
ah, i see your point now.
so, twilight with arcane augmentation gives also that last missile from chain missile. (and pumps dbf, yes)
as for random loot, as long as you put in the game settings to give you end rewards according to your class, eventually you`ll come by the one you`re after. but sure, twilight is easier to get (with the box)

Haphazarduk
12-02-2013, 09:21 AM
I did take Burning Hands SLA while levelling, but that's it. Once you have Fireball, you don't need much else until you hit the Vale.


Fireball (so 6th lvl?) with just your Fire Spell power and no Maximize/Empower? Surely even better if you take it at 12 as an SLA and have Maximise/Empower? :)

Hap

thesnoman
12-02-2013, 07:34 PM
Fireball (so 6th lvl?) with just your Fire Spell power and no Maximize/Empower? Surely even better if you take it at 12 as an SLA and have Maximise/Empower? :)

Hap


By Level 12 (which would actually be Level 14 since I encourage taking 2 FvS Right after you get fireball) you have so much fire spell power that the SLA is not necessary.

Max/Emp Fireball is overkill - maybe one or another - or against bosses, but it is definitely not necessary for 99% of content.


Also, please note the following - I ETR'd over the weekend - during this process I revamped my Feats a bit. I waited until L18 to decide about taking the Sorc past life feat. and decided against it. I still think it is a good choice for leveling, but once you are able to take full advantage of the practically infinite blue bar this gives you (in other words, once you can play in the Shiradi Destiny) it's better to drop PL:Sorc and pick up Extend, just for Displacement and FvS Spells.

Spell Changes:

I dropped Spawn Screen and picked up Invisibility as a level 2 Sorc Spell.
I dropped Lesser Restoration and picked up Spawn Screen as my Level 2 FvS Spell.

I would keep Lesser Restoration while leveling, but since Spawn Screen isn't necessary until Fall of Truth, I'd not take it as a Sorc Spell at all (Take Invisibility instead) and just swap Lesser Rest. for Spawn Screen (Level 2 FvS) once you flag for FoT.

Failedlegend
12-22-2013, 09:34 AM
So uh...I don't mean to be well...mean but you only have 14 Sorc levels your DCs are going to suck...how do you plan to overcome that.

I mostly ask because I was thinking of doing a Sorc16/Pally2/FvS2

voodoogroves
12-22-2013, 01:37 PM
So uh...I don't mean to be well...mean but you only have 14 Sorc levels your DCs are going to suck...how do you plan to overcome that.

I mostly ask because I was thinking of doing a Sorc16/Pally2/FvS2

By not using DC spells, and instead overcoming "quality" with "quantity" and 7% chances to proc crazy **** from Shiradi?

Failedlegend
12-22-2013, 05:13 PM
By not using DC spells, and instead overcoming "quality" with "quantity" and 7% chances to proc crazy **** from Shiradi?

So its not really a spellcaster than what the point in going sorceror wouldn't an Arty be better with a repeater.

thesnoman
12-24-2013, 05:51 AM
So uh...I don't mean to be well...mean but you only have 14 Sorc levels your DCs are going to suck...how do you plan to overcome that.

I mostly ask because I was thinking of doing a Sorc16/Pally2/FvS2

Most of the spells you use are no-fail spells like MM, CM, and Scorching Ray - Your DC has nothing to do with this build.

Shiradi Procs are what create the DPS here, not the basic spells you cast. (Except Scorching Ray - it'll do 1K plus damage by itself when it crits, and it crits quite often with this build)




So its not really a spellcaster than what the point in going sorceror wouldn't an Arty be better with a repeater.

No - not at all.

Shiradi Procs damage is multiplied by spell power. The Force Procs are what seem to go off more than anything else, so I'll use them as an example.

Fey Power (6th Innate Shiradi Ability) - 7% chance to deal 2d100 extra force damage.

Therefore, an Arti - with little force spell power is going to get close to the base 2-200 damage.

A Sorcerer - in this case, with 367 Spell power will get 7 - 734 base damage. This doubles on a critical - and this build has a more than 30% Chance to crit with Force (36% IIRC)

Then you can also add in things like Max/Emp (which apply to the Shiradi Procs), to boost your damage even higher - Same example as above with Max/Emp turned on yields 12 - 1184 damage (again, doubling on a crit.)

Add in the fact that I can get off 10 - 20 missiles in the time it takes an arti to get off 4-8 bolts and you can see that a Sorcerer is far superior to any Arti in Shiradi.

SEMYAZA366
12-26-2013, 08:27 PM
Your build sounds awesome man. However personally I don't care for fire spells, could this be swapped for air, on a build with 2 past lives Sorcerer?

Azurchaos
12-27-2013, 07:30 AM
Brief Overview:[/B]
Lawful Good Warforged
14 Sorc/4 FvS/2 Pally
Leveling Order: SSSSSSFFSSSSSSSSPPFF

You also don't want to take your Pally levels last as it will require you to spend extra skill points in Spell Power as it is not a class skill for Paladin.



You say dont Take paladin levels Last but is 17 and 18 much different than 19 and 20?

Also from the 2 pala splash things like Lay of Hands that you get wouldnt that be helpful a bit earlier?

thesnoman
12-27-2013, 08:12 AM
You say dont Take paladin levels Last but is 17 and 18 much different than 19 and 20?

Also from the 2 pala splash things like Lay of Hands that you get wouldnt that be helpful a bit earlier?

You really can take Pally whenever you want after Level 8

You want 6 Sorc for Fireball as quickly as possible
You then want 2 FvS to get the bonuses to Fire


You don't want Pally levels LAST because Spellcraft is not a class skill for Pally - as it is skills are at a premium, so spending the extra points on Spellcraft is a waste. Spellcraft IS a FvS Skill, so you want to take either FvS or Sorc as your last level or two to max Spellcraft without wasting skill points.


Awesome build, could fire be swapped for other element?

Your build sounds awesome man. However personally I don't care for fire spells, could this be swapped for air, on a build with 2 past lives Sorcerer?

You can swap it for Air, but I'd suggest going 18/2 (FvS or Pally) or 16/2/2 instead. Your blue bar also won't be as long lasting since you lose out on crit chance by not casting fire spells.

The biggest reason for going 4 FvS is for the Synergy you get between Angel of Vengeance and Fire Savant. I have played this build with Air primary and Fire secondary, but you lose out so much that it just isn't worth it. (I don't miss wings very often - you get used to not having them)

Keep in mind that the fire spell you will cast most often is Scorching Ray - FB and DBFB are for masses of baddies that don't have high reflex saves. These are the only fire spells I use.

You can always level using Air and swap to Fire when you are in Shiradi - it only costs a few platinum to do it.

If you're specifically interested in Air Savant Builds I suggest the following threads:

AtomicMew's U19 Shiradi Primer (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423364-U19-shiradi-WF-sorc-build-primer-more-powerfuller-than-ever)

My U19 Shiradi Sorc Info (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423546-U19-Shiradi-Sorc-The-Good-the-bad-and-the-OMFG!!)

Wizza's Farwind Build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/415819-Farwind-An-Air-savant-Endgame-EE-DPS-Build)

EDITOR'S NOTE

I've TR'd into a Blaeforged for this build - Currently at Level 18 - Will let everyone know how the build progresses

Azurchaos
12-31-2013, 02:03 AM
You really can take Pally whenever you want after Level 8

You want 6 Sorc for Fireball as quickly as possible
You then want 2 FvS to get the bonuses to Fire




Is the only reason you wanna take FvS the enhancement line? Cause if so wouldnt it be better to wait till later when u have to AP to spend in both Fire Savant and the FvS one?

I never done a FvS so dunno if u get anything else from the 4 lvls?

You get this for level 1 and 2 :

Level 1:
Enhancement: Toughness
Spell: Bless
Spell: Cure Light Wounds
Spell: Nightshield
Level 2:
Bonus Feat: +2 damage with a pecific weapon based on faith
+1 CHA (Purchasable Enhancement)
25% Wand Effectiveness Increase

so i would guess your taking at least 2 for the + CHA but just wondering what you get from taking it all the way to level 4?

thesnoman
12-31-2013, 05:57 AM
Is the only reason you wanna take FvS the enhancement line? Cause if so wouldnt it be better to wait till later when u have to AP to spend in both Fire Savant and the FvS one?

I never done a FvS so dunno if u get anything else from the 4 lvls?

<SNIP>

so i would guess your taking at least 2 for the + CHA but just wondering what you get from taking it all the way to level 4?

You're taking 4 FvS Strictly for the AoV Enhancement line.

Above Level 2 you get the following from enhancements:

+4% chance for Fire/Force/Light/Physical Damage Spells to Crit
+2 Charisma
+3 Caster Levels to Fire/Force/Light/Physical Damage Spells

+14 Universal Spell Power (from points spent in the AoV tree)

Keep in mind that the chance to crit. is the key point here.
From Tier 2 AoV - Just Reward (3/3): When you Critically Hit with Fire/Force/Light/Physical Damage Spells you gain 10 temporary Spell Points

The higher your Crit Chance, the more temporary spell points you get and the longer your blue bar lasts.

Azurchaos
01-05-2014, 01:20 AM
Is there any chance you can post what you took outa the Shiradi Champion epic tree.

thesnoman
01-05-2014, 03:03 PM
Is there any chance you can post what you took outa the Shiradi Champion epic tree.

Sure - here it is:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7356/11784426366_7c9e5813dc.jpg

Tier 1
Healing Spring (3/3)
Illusion of Well Being (1/3) - Grants 1 additional use of Healing Spring per rest.

Tier 2
Prism
Fey Spring (1/3) - Grants 1 additional use of Healing Spring
Fey Form (3/3) - +15 Spell Power and Required for Elemental Absorption

Tier 3
Rainbow

Tier 4
Double Rainbow
In The Weeds (2/3) +2 Dodge
Elemental Absorption (3/3) - 15% Elemental Absorption

Tier 5
Nerve Venom (3/3)

Tier 6
Audience with the Queen


There are alternatives so you can take Stay Frosty and Stay Good, but I don't see a need to take them since you will be in Prism all the time.

Samir_Bennal
01-11-2014, 01:20 PM
EDITOR'S NOTE

I've TR'd into a Bladeforged for this build - Currently at Level 18 - Will let everyone know how the build progresses

How is the bladeforged working out? Am getting ready to TR for first time. Was wondering about the 4 lvls favored soul. Is that personal preference? Will less favored soul for more sorc lvls work? Have been a fighter and monk player since the game launched but want to branch out. Do have access to bladeforged if that seems to be working better than warforged. As of this moment, not too concerned about end game survivability as it usually takes me quite a while to level a toon up (as in my toon I started at launch didn't hit 20 till last year). Not lots o play time. Will obviously welcome end game tips to be aware of for the time I do reach that point. Am mainly a solo player if that sways any advice.

thesnoman
01-11-2014, 01:39 PM
How is the bladeforged working out?

AWESOME!!!

More Charisma = more SP and more power.

Also it's +1 to all saves with the Pally levels (although you will be losing out on 1 reflex save since your Dex will be down by 2, so reflex evens out).



Was wondering about the 4 lvls favored soul. Is that personal preference? Will less favored soul for more sorc lvls work?<SNIP> Am mainly a solo player if that sways any advice.

4 Levels of FvS is what makes this particular build SHINE!!
For End Game you won't be using many high level spells (in Shiradi) so the extra levels of Sorc are not necessary.
Keep in mind that this is my personal preference, but it seems to be a popular one as I've seen this split more and more on Thelanis.

This build is perfect for Soloing - you'll rarely run out of Mana, can self heal, have great saves, and can kill just about everything.
It does get harder to Solo once you get into the Vale and Shavarath since you're primarily focusing on Fire spells and there are many creatures that are resistant to fire (NOT IMMUNE) but it's still doable.

Devils and Orthons are immune, but almost everything else is just resistant.

Samir_Bennal
01-11-2014, 07:00 PM
Alrighty then. Guess we'll give it a go. Will be nice to be bladeforge instead of halfling sorc.

Edit: Does being bladeforge alter the order you took on the classes?

thesnoman
01-12-2014, 12:46 PM
Edit: Does being bladeforge alter the order you took on the classes?

Yes - it's a requirement of Bladeforged to take Paladin at Level 1. Since you get enough XP to get to 15, you can put the first 15 in any order, but it's important to have two levels of FvS in the first 15 levels.

Here's my leveling order for Bladeforged:

1 & 2: Paladin
3 - 13: Sorcerer
14 & 15: Favored Soul

(You start playing here)

16 - 18: Sorcerer
19 & 20: Favored Soul

tracimatrix
01-14-2014, 05:37 PM
I normally would not be keyed on taking diplomacy skill. But just read the Shiradi Audience With Queen results chart, based on Diplo success. That alone, having every 2 1/2 minutes that list of crazy buffs go off looks like I will take Diplo. Do the Queens buffs last long enough for you to always be covered between casts, or the buffs match up to only the 11 secs of fast healing? I know this is more an epic destiny thread question, but to me looks like a key part of build.

thesnoman
01-14-2014, 06:26 PM
I normally would not be keyed on taking diplomacy skill. But just read the Shiradi Audience With Queen results chart, based on Diplo success. That alone, having every 2 1/2 minutes that list of crazy buffs go off looks like I will take Diplo. Do the Queens buffs last long enough for you to always be covered between casts, or the buffs match up to only the 11 secs of fast healing? I know this is more an epic destiny thread question, but to me looks like a key part of build.

No Problem - Keep in mind that this ability is only usable once per rest.

I'll not go over the weaker versions of this ability since you only need a 40 Diplomacy Check, which is easy to hit on a Sorcerer since Diplomacy is a Charisma based skill.

Here's what you get with Joy of the Queen (This is what you want EVERY TIME)

11 seconds of fast healing - this heals you for Approx 1000 HP.

5 minutes of ONE of the following:


75% Royalty bonus resistance to Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire, and Sonic damage.
+100 Royalty bonus to Physical Resistance Rating
+300 Royalty bonus to Maximum HP
+10 Royalty bonus to all saving throws
+10 Royalty bonus to all ability scores. In addition, your spells gain a 50% chance to generate a random effect (as Double Rainbow on Prism Stance but at 50% chance instead of 7%).


The list above is completely random - you never know what you're going to get. The Last one is what you're really shooting for since you get a 50% chance to generate a random effect per spell damage roll, (and happens to be the only one where "Joy of the Queen" pops over your head), but I believe it's only about a 5% chance.

The 5 Minute bonuses last for exactly that - 5 minutes. There's no downtime in those 5 minutes. Popping Tea is usually saved for boss fights since you only get it once per rest.

jskinner937
01-14-2014, 08:44 PM
So you are OK with 5% arcane spell failure? It only costs 1 AP to remove the inherent penalty.

Shadow7375
01-15-2014, 08:05 AM
Question .... Once you made it to 20 and run around in Shiradi, do you keep your metamagics on at all times when casting?

thesnoman
01-15-2014, 08:15 AM
So you are OK with 5% arcane spell failure? It only costs 1 AP to remove the inherent penalty.


I do not have 5% Arcane Spell Failure. I'd just rather take it in EK than WF so you get the other beneifts:

Eldritch Knight Core Ability #2 - Spellsword: Flame
Toggle:


Charge your equipped weapon with magical flame, causing them to deal an addtional 1d6 fire damage on hit. This damage increases to 2d4 at Sorcerer Level 6, 3d4 at Sorcerer Level 12, and 4d4 at Sorcerer Level 18.
Up to once every 6 seconds while a spellsword toggle is active, an attack you make that hits an enemy will cost you a spell point.
While active, your Eldritch Strike deals an additional 0 to 2 fire damage per character level. This additional damage is affected by your fire spellpower.

Passive:


-5% Arcane Spell Failure from equipped Armor and Shields
+10 Force Spell Power

thesnoman
01-15-2014, 08:21 AM
Question .... Once you made it to 20 and run around in Shiradi, do you keep your metamagics on at all times when casting?

Maximize and Empower are always active, but they are turned to Always Off in my shortcut bars on most spells, including MM, CM, FM, and Scorching Ray. They are on default for FB and DBFB (so metas do effect them).

Quicken is set to Always On for Reconstruct ONLY and I do not have it active most of the time since casting times are negligible for spells you cast regularly (MM, CM, FM, SR).

Chewysc
01-16-2014, 12:58 PM
The fleshie version works best as a Half Elf w/ Pally Dilli.You then go 16/4 SOrc/Fvs. Here's a Link: Raidon's End Game Builds (http://www.stormlords.net/forum_threads/1557902?post=8693821#forum_post_8693821)

Heya Sno. I'm planning to TR into this build (sort of) and stay at end game to grind out Epic PL's in EE content.

I have two questions here...

1) I could go Bladeforged but would prefer to go Human as I have 3 pally PL (also 1 wiz, 2 clr, 2 ftr and 1 mnk PL's) and would think I'd benefit more with the extra Healing Amp and full Chr bonus to saves with your build vs going Raidon's build with no pally splash. The AP's seem a little tight to go H-Elf pally dilly to get decent saves. Am I missing something here that makes the 16/4 split that much better for a fleshie?

2) If I hold at level 18 to do Vale and Amrath, could I get by staying in Fire Savant while grouping or will I pretty much gimp myself to pikerdom for those two packs? If so, go Air? Acid?

Bear in mind, I've only played an arcane once and that was a many moons ago...

Any feedback is much appreciated!

thesnoman
01-16-2014, 01:59 PM
Heya Sno. I'm planning to TR into this build (sort of) and stay at end game to grind out Epic PL's in EE content.

I have two questions here...

1) I could go Bladeforged but would prefer to go Human as I have 3 pally PL (also 1 wiz, 2 clr, 2 ftr and 1 mnk PL's) and would think I'd benefit more with the extra Healing Amp and full Chr bonus to saves with your build vs going Raidon's build with no pally splash. The AP's seem a little tight to go H-Elf pally dilly to get decent saves. Am I missing something here that makes the 16/4 split that much better for a fleshie?

2) If I hold at level 18 to do Vale and Amrath, could I get by staying in Fire Savant while grouping or will I pretty much gimp myself to pikerdom for those two packs? If so, go Air? Acid?

Bear in mind, I've only played an arcane once and that was a many moons ago...

Any feedback is much appreciated!


1 - Bladeforged gives you full Charisma Bonus, (Unlike regular WF). If you prefer Fleshie toons, the Fire Angel really is a superior build. You'll need more UMD and your Enhancements will be a stretch, but it's a great build. You can also go Human and get an extra feat - just remember that your healing will be 1/3 as fast as Quickened Reconstruct.

2 - I solo Vale and Amrath on this build, but I usually don't do Amrath until Level 20 (and have access to my EDs). I run in Fire Savant for both, but if you feel the need, Air or Water Savant is a tad easier.

As your first time Sorc Life, it will take a bit of getting used to. You're spamming quick, low cost spells ALL THE TIME. Not many long spell casting times or cool downs - it's a very rapid rotation. Basically FM, SR, MM (or CM depending on the situation) with DBFB and FB thrown when necessary. You've also got the combination of Ice Storm/Solid Fog for CC. Also keep in mind that Ice Storm ALWAYS beats Fire Wall, so if you've got a baddie that likes to cast Fire Wall (Kishnaurac in Deal and the Demon as an example) you can cast Ice Storm close to you and keep Fire Wall doused.

It's really not complicated to play, it just takes some getting used to
(Especially if you're used to: run up to baddie, hold attack button on mouse, cleave, greater cleave, keep swinging while I wait for cleave to cooldown, "HJEAL MEH!!!" J/K)

Chewysc
01-16-2014, 06:35 PM
(Especially if you're used to: run up to baddie, hold attack button on mouse, cleave, greater cleave, keep swinging while I wait for cleave to cooldown, "HJEAL MEH!!!" J/K)[/I]

Lol! That was so true in the past as the majority of my toon's life was spent as a healing clonk.

Ok, I guess it's a toss up between Human for the extra feat or Helf for the Pally dilly (and based on your previous comment, you'd probably vote for Helf).

Either way I think I'm going to miss playing a toon with high saves and evasion and start to learn where traps are and how to avoid incoming spell damage and such ;-)

Thank again for your input!

Chewysc
01-24-2014, 11:26 AM
It's really not complicated to play, it just takes some getting used to


Yah, no kidding.

I was finally able to hit level 18 last night (thx Otto Stone) and run my first ever Angel of Fire or Sorc build for that matter and it's official... I suck at it!

I know it'll take time and will go great once I have access to Shiradi at 20 but boy oh boy, it must been entertaining for the pug group in our IQ runs to watch me...

- Hop around like a jack rabbit
- Do anemic damage
- Shoot SR all over the place and miss
- Learn to cycle through the FM, SR, MM/CM

Well, at least I had fun learning this (while being humbled) and probably put a smile or two on another person's face =D

thesnoman
01-24-2014, 02:28 PM
Yah, no kidding. <SNIP>
Well, at least I had fun learning this (while being humbled) and probably put a smile or two on another person's face =D


Don't forget - you should have FB - it'll do decent damage against non-devils while leveling.

And Don't worry - once you get the hang of it it's a blast to play.

Steel_Kosta
01-28-2014, 09:13 AM
First of all : thanks a lot for the build and ideas , i really love my Toaster :-))

Please take a look under the cleric section on the Light Sabre thread : it's the divine twin of the Toaster I made , and is nice to play too .

K.

Vint
01-28-2014, 09:37 AM
This looks like a really solid build. I will try this on my completionist within the next few days.

One thing I was curious about and wanted to know if others were doing though. If you are planning on ETRing into the arcane tree, would anyone here recommend twisting in double rainbow and prism? If I am not overlooking anything you could get all the benefits from Draconic while having the best parts of Shiradi. Comments?

thesnoman
01-29-2014, 05:48 AM
This looks like a really solid build. I will try this on my completionist within the next few days.

One thing I was curious about and wanted to know if others were doing though. If you are planning on ETRing into the arcane tree, would anyone here recommend twisting in double rainbow and prism? If I am not overlooking anything you could get all the benefits from Draconic while having the best parts of Shiradi. Comments?


Yes - Twisting in Double Rainbow and Prism while running in DI for Arcane PLs is what I've been doing for the past few weeks (And prior to my HTR into Bladeforged).

It works, although it's nowhere near as powerful as full Shiradi. I'm not sure how well it will work ouside of the Arcane Sphere as I've yet to try it. Since Melkorr isn't even close to Completionist, I'm actually considering HTRing into a Melee/Monk build simply to grind out the Martial and Divine Spheres. (Although I may consider the Light Sabre for Divine - looks like it could be a fun build to play)

thesnoman
02-09-2014, 01:46 PM
OK - so it has recently been brought to my attention that Max/Emp DO NOT affect Shiradi Procs any longer when the spell is cast as "Always Off" It does affect Procs when the spell is cast normally or in "Always On"

Since burning through spell points is not the point of this build I will be looking at the following feats to replace Max/Emp.

Choice #1
Leave them as they are - they help FB and DBFB anyways.

Choice #2
Dodge and Mobility for an additional 5% Dodge

Choice #3
Combat Casting and Mobile Spellcasting for casting while running at normal speed rather than at half speed. (the need for this is effectively eliminated by jump-casting, but I figured I would try it.)

Choice #4
Force of Personality for Charisma Modifier affecting Will Saves instead of Wisdom
Insightful Reflexes for Int Modifier affecting Reflexes instead of Dexterity


I will run some testing and see which I like best. This will, of course, mean that I need to play with Enhancements again since I will not need Efficient Max. and Efficient Emp. I've already played with Dodge/Mobility and the extra 5% is helpful, but I'm not sure it's worth 2 feats.

Stay Tuned...

Annolas
02-09-2014, 02:53 PM
OK - so it has recently been brought to my attention that Max/Emp DO NOT affect Shiradi Procs any longer when the spell is cast as "Always Off" It does affect Procs when the spell is cast normally or in "Always On"

Since burning through spell points is not the point of this build I will be looking at the following feats to replace Max/Emp.

Choice #1
Leave them as they are - they help FB and DBFB anyways.

Choice #2
Dodge and Mobility for an additional 5% Dodge

Choice #3
Combat Casting and Mobile Spellcasting for casting while running at normal speed rather than at half speed. (the need for this is effectively eliminated by jump-casting, but I figured I would try it.)

Choice #4
Force of Personality for Charisma Modifier affecting Will Saves instead of Wisdom
Insightful Reflexes for Int Modifier affecting Reflexes instead of Dexterity


I will run some testing and see which I like best. This will, of course, mean that I need to play with Enhancements again since I will not need Efficient Max. and Efficient Emp. I've already played with Dodge/Mobility and the extra 5% is helpful, but I'm not sure it's worth 2 feats.

Stay Tuned...


I'm playing this build, and I'm still leveling through epic levels and working my way over to the Shiradi tree (which seems to take forever). But while leveling I took all of the Fire SLAs. These are the only places I use metas. They help me get a Fire-only rotation going: Scorching Ray (SR), Fireball SLA, SR, Scorch, SR, Burning Hands (or Force Missiles if I want to keep distance). It helps get the fire dot rolling very high very quickly. I also noticed that you get an immediate tick whenever a new stack is applied, so every spell. Once it's maxed out it ticks higher than any spell I cast, no save no evade.

Keeping Empower and Maximize just for the SLAs help boost up the damage might be worth it, and if you get Shiradi procs as well they'll be even bigger.

However, I concede that once I get over to Shiradi I might find FM/MM spam with unmeta'ed procs to just be plain better. Won't know until I get there.

Ancient
02-09-2014, 03:55 PM
Choice #1
Leave them as they are - they help FB and DBFB anyways.

One more vote for keep them. They help the SLAs, they help the dots.

There are other ways to get dodge, your saves should be fine, jump casting is fine.

Ancient
02-09-2014, 03:57 PM
Yes - Twisting in Double Rainbow and Prism while running in DI for Arcane PLs is what I've been doing for the past few weeks (And prior to my HTR into Bladeforged).

It works, although it's nowhere near as powerful as full Shiradi. I'm not sure how well it will work ouside of the Arcane Sphere as I've yet to try it. Since Melkorr isn't even close to Completionist, I'm actually considering HTRing into a Melee/Monk build simply to grind out the Martial and Divine Spheres. (Although I may consider the Light Sabre for Divine - looks like it could be a fun build to play)
Have you done the math on just double rainbow and prism V.S. just stay frosty? If it is even close, then getting to pull in another damage twist would put stay frosty in the lead.

thesnoman
02-09-2014, 05:30 PM
Since I don't use SLAs once I have access to Shiradi I tend not to worry too much about Max/Emp...except for DoTs. They'll likely be the tipping point that makes me keep them.


Have you done the math on just double rainbow and prism V.S. just stay frosty? If it is even close, then getting to pull in another damage twist would put stay frosty in the lead.

I haven't done the math - and Stay Frosty may be the winner here with a twist that gives additional damage...and I could see doing it in anything other than Draconic Incarnation since that's where my T4 Damage twist is.

Ancient
02-09-2014, 09:31 PM
I try to never leave home without energy burst!

Icywave
02-09-2014, 09:35 PM
This looks like a really solid build. I will try this on my completionist within the next few days.

One thing I was curious about and wanted to know if others were doing though. If you are planning on ETRing into the arcane tree, would anyone here recommend twisting in double rainbow and prism? If I am not overlooking anything you could get all the benefits from Draconic while having the best parts of Shiradi. Comments?

I tried it...for a few hours.

Conclusion: not worth it.

It is no where close as using the actual Shiradi ED, since a lot of the procs are in the inner core of the ED.

I went back to twisting stuff from Exalted Angel and Magister.

Edit: As a Water Savant, not Toaster :)

Acaios
02-09-2014, 09:57 PM
OK - so it has recently been brought to my attention that Max/Emp DO NOT affect Shiradi Procs any longer when the spell is cast as "Always Off" It does affect Procs when the spell is cast normally or in "Always On"

really? is there a link to verify it with test numbers?

if i had to choose between emp/max for dots, i`d choose maximize. 8 uses (noxious embers+cove dagger) for free maximize makes the difference.
another fun feat to play with is enlarge, which helps missiles be of the same range as SR. (having them on 2 different shortkeys helps. one with enlarge, one w/o)

thesnoman
02-10-2014, 05:08 AM
really? is there a link to verify it with test numbers?


https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436029-Shiradi-testing-with-statistics

I tested yesterday (2/9/2014) prior to seeing AtomicMew's post, but I can verify that my numbers are very similar to his.

flotterjohnny
02-12-2014, 09:11 AM
I just reached 20 with my Toaster and get the full leveld Shiradi ED, and I love this build so far, Thanks thesnoman!

Two questions:

Why do I took all the mental toughness feats? Are they prerequisite for something I dont see? Atm I can run a EH quest without shrining...so no need for the +SPs

What are the twists you would use when leveling the divine/arcane sphere? I read the posts above about worth it/not worth it...maybe u have made some experiences about it.

Thx for help and thx for answering all the questions here :)

Greetz FJ

Wizza
02-12-2014, 01:34 PM
I just reached 20 with my Toaster and get the full leveld Shiradi ED, and I love this build so far, Thanks thesnoman!

Two questions:

Why do I took all the mental toughness feats? Are they prerequisite for something I dont see? Atm I can run a EH quest without shrining...so no need for the +SPs

What are the twists you would use when leveling the divine/arcane sphere? I read the posts above about worth it/not worth it...maybe u have made some experiences about it.

Thx for help and thx for answering all the questions here :)

Greetz FJ

When you follow a build, at least try to understand why he is picking what or the benefits of each single enhancement/feat.

Each mental toughness gives a 1% Critical chance on top of the SP.

thesnoman
02-12-2014, 02:39 PM
I just reached 20 with my Toaster and get the full leveld Shiradi ED, and I love this build so far, Thanks thesnoman!

Two questions:

Why do I took all the mental toughness feats? Are they prerequisite for something I dont see? Atm I can run a EH quest without shrining...so no need for the +SPs

As Wizza already pointed out, they are for the chance to Crit with your spells.. You get 1% per Mental Toughness feat. It really is one of the cores of this build since you are trying to crit. as much as possible to keep your SP up.


What are the twists you would use when leveling the divine/arcane sphere? I read the posts above about worth it/not worth it...maybe u have made some experiences about it.

Thx for help and thx for answering all the questions here :)

Greetz FJ

OK - there's lots of different ways to do this depending on how you play while in your arcane sphere.

I play like a Fire Savant while in Arcane Spheres since I've already got the Fire Savant Gear. Because I'm using higher SP cost spells I twist in Endless Faith for the SP, Unearthly Reactions (T1 Magister - unless I'm IN Magister - then it's Perfect Reflexes), and Energy Burst (Unless I'm in Draconic - then it's sense weakness or Stormrage).

AtomicMew
02-12-2014, 04:05 PM
As Wizza already pointed out, they are for the chance to Crit with your spells.. You get 1% per Mental Toughness feat. It really is one of the cores of this build since you are trying to crit. as much as possible to keep your SP up.



OK - there's lots of different ways to do this depending on how you play while in your arcane sphere.

I play like a Fire Savant while in Arcane Spheres since I've already got the Fire Savant Gear. Because I'm using higher SP cost spells I twist in Endless Faith for the SP, Unearthly Reactions (T1 Magister - unless I'm IN Magister - then it's Perfect Reflexes), and Energy Burst (Unless I'm in Draconic - then it's sense weakness or Stormrage).
How do you get sense weakness to be effective in draconic?

thesnoman
02-12-2014, 07:38 PM
How do you get sense weakness to be effective in draconic?

Reality is...it's not...unless I'm running with my guild.

When running with my guild, there's always someone Blitzing, and there's always someone stunning or paralyzong, so I just blast away with MM/CM/FM to bring the mobs down to where the Blitzer can kill them. We blow through content that way and I use it to get XP to ETR.

flotterjohnny
02-13-2014, 05:37 AM
As Wizza already pointed out, they are for the chance to Crit with your spells.. You get 1% per Mental Toughness feat. It really is one of the cores of this build since you are trying to crit. as much as possible to keep your SP up.



OK - there's lots of different ways to do this depending on how you play while in your arcane sphere.

I play like a Fire Savant while in Arcane Spheres since I've already got the Fire Savant Gear. Because I'm using higher SP cost spells I twist in Endless Faith for the SP, Unearthly Reactions (T1 Magister - unless I'm IN Magister - then it's Perfect Reflexes), and Energy Burst (Unless I'm in Draconic - then it's sense weakness or Stormrage).

Thx again!

bigdmag
03-03-2014, 08:09 PM
OK - so it has recently been brought to my attention that Max/Emp DO NOT affect Shiradi Procs any longer when the spell is cast as "Always Off" It does affect Procs when the spell is cast normally or in "Always On"

Since burning through spell points is not the point of this build I will be looking at the following feats to replace Max/Emp.

Choice #1
Leave them as they are - they help FB and DBFB anyways.

Choice #2
Dodge and Mobility for an additional 5% Dodge

Choice #3
Combat Casting and Mobile Spellcasting for casting while running at normal speed rather than at half speed. (the need for this is effectively eliminated by jump-casting, but I figured I would try it.)

Choice #4
Force of Personality for Charisma Modifier affecting Will Saves instead of Wisdom
Insightful Reflexes for Int Modifier affecting Reflexes instead of Dexterity


I will run some testing and see which I like best. This will, of course, mean that I need to play with Enhancements again since I will not need Efficient Max. and Efficient Emp. I've already played with Dodge/Mobility and the extra 5% is helpful, but I'm not sure it's worth 2 feats.

Stay Tuned...

So how does this affect the effectiveness of this build? I would think non-maxed/empowered Shiradi Procs would be a big loss, but you cant really leave them on all the time as the SP efficiency aspect of this build goes right out the window correct?

thesnoman
03-06-2014, 05:27 AM
So how does this affect the effectiveness of this build? I would think non-maxed/empowered Shiradi Procs would be a big loss, but you cant really leave them on all the time as the SP efficiency aspect of this build goes right out the window correct?

It doesn't - The build is just as effective without the max/emp procs...it just takes a tiny bit longer and one or two more casts to kill stuff.

bigdmag
03-08-2014, 04:46 PM
It doesn't - The build is just as effective without the max/emp procs...it just takes a tiny bit longer and one or two more casts to kill stuff.

Interesting :) Did you make any changes or did you stick with emp/max for the DBF? Just Tr'd into your build for my static group, so we are all Bladforged and looking forward to the trip to 28 :) Thanks for the build, so far Im liking it. Using max/empower does use up the SP right now but Im sure I will see quite a difference once Im at 20 and can use Shiradi and switch them off.

thesnoman
03-12-2014, 01:48 PM
Interesting :) Did you make any changes or did you stick with emp/max for the DBF? Just Tr'd into your build for my static group, so we are all Bladforged and looking forward to the trip to 28 :) Thanks for the build, so far Im liking it. Using max/empower does use up the SP right now but Im sure I will see quite a difference once Im at 20 and can use Shiradi and switch them off.


OK -so here's what I suggest.

Max/Emp are too good for leveling to just disregard. Once in Shiradi, they aren't especially helpful except for Fireball, Delayed Blast Fireball, Niac's Biting Cold, and Eldar's Electric Surge - which I use quite a bit while soloing.

HOWEVER...the increase of 225 Spell Power does cost you. It's an additional 40 Spell points per spell - or - 25 per spell after you've invested 12 AP into Efficient Max and Efficient Emp. For the FIRE spells, this is hardly worthwhile as you can simply cast 2 DBFBs or 3 FBs and get more damage. Additionally - many of the end-game EE MoBs evade or reflex for half damage - essentially killing the effectiveness of FB and DBFB.

For the Electric and Ice DoTs, this is not as easy to quantify as you are likely trying to do as much DPS as possible and the spells damage stacks...so here's where Max and Emp really shine. The problem is that you're spending 2 feats and 12 AP to use Max and Emp on two spells, so you have to decide what is best for you.

Currently I am still using Max/Emp, but I'm about to Epic Reincarnate again and I'm thinking about swapping them out. I've not yet determined what exactly I'm swapping them out for, but I may go for two Spell Focus Feats or I'm seriously considering dodge/mobility again (as I did in a previous build). I've got some other Ideas milling about so I'll let everyone know what I decide once I epic reincarnate again.

CaptEHCJ
03-12-2014, 02:39 PM
I am currently leveling up a Bladeforged to try this build out. In looking at the gear you have outlined, I have two questions - first, I don't see Feather Fall anywhere... Did I miss something? Secondly, what is the purpose of the Ring of Deceit? Is it the +20 Diplomacy?

Thanks in advance for your efforts on putting this together.

thesnoman
03-12-2014, 04:07 PM
I am currently leveling up a Bladeforged to try this build out. In looking at the gear you have outlined, I have two questions - first, I don't see Feather Fall anywhere... Did I miss something? Secondly, what is the purpose of the Ring of Deceit? Is it the +20 Diplomacy?

Thanks in advance for your efforts on putting this together.

No Feather Fall - I have the spell slotted. (I hate feather fall - it's beyond annoying 99% of the time, so for me it's a nuisance and I cast it only when needed)

Ring of Deceit - It's not just the +20 Diplo - it's the 2 slots, +20 Perform (for sonic damage Shiradi procs) +20 Bluff (for grouping - melees hate that I get all the aggro and bluffing lets them grab some back) AND +8 Charisma (for when I'm using clickies on a necklace).

I'll also be re-working some of the gear since there's new gear out with U21 - most likely you'll see 2 Thunderforged caster sticks (Fire and Force) and I'll re-work the goggles and bracers to make this an even more deadly build.

kendo
03-18-2014, 04:15 PM
now that you switched over to blade forged, did you change the number of pts in the racial enhancement tree? more specifically, is it worth spending 7 - 8 pts to get at least the first level of the reconstruct spell from there? at which point, you may need to take the -5 to failure chance in racial as well as you may have to pull from Eldritch Knight to get the pts in racial.

thesnoman
03-18-2014, 05:56 PM
now that you switched over to blade forged, did you change the number of pts in the racial enhancement tree? more specifically, is it worth spending 7 - 8 pts to get at least the first level of the reconstruct spell from there? at which point, you may need to take the -5 to failure chance in racial as well as you may have to pull from Eldritch Knight to get the pts in racial.

No - I do not find the Reconstruct SLA beneficial for the cost in Enhancement Points. This build's enhancements are tight as it is, and you need to spend a total of 11 AP in order to really benefit from it. - that's 7 more than I already spend in the tree and 5 less total spell power (3.5 if you pull from Eldritch Knight) than you'd have by spending it in any Savant tree

kendo
03-18-2014, 06:39 PM
No - I do not find the Reconstruct SLA beneficial for the cost in Enhancement Points. This build's enhancements are tight as it is, and you need to spend a total of 11 AP in order to really benefit from it. - that's 7 more than I already spend in the tree and 5 less total spell power (3.5 if you pull from Eldritch Knight) than you'd have by spending it in any Savant tree

thank you for the quick reply. that was pretty much what I figured. as good as you have been showing changes you have made to the build along the way didn't think a fairly substantial revision to the enhancement points would have been skipped

but right off the boat at 15, I will probably take it for now until I hit 16 and pick it up as my first lvl 6 spell

thanks again, looking forward to my latest Sorcerer reincarnation

thesnoman
03-19-2014, 06:06 AM
but right off the boat at 15, I will probably take it for now until I hit 16 and pick it up as my first lvl 6 spell

thanks again, looking forward to my latest Sorcerer reincarnation

That's the beauty of enhancements...all it costs is Platinum to change them around. If you don't like what you've done, just change them until you like your results.

One other thing to consider. In my final build there are no SLAs. They are extremely helpful for conserving Spell Points whilst leveling. Once you are fully into Shiradi (Level 20+) you can swap them out for more important enhancements that will increase your crit chance and spell power.

Turgar
03-24-2014, 11:50 PM
I just played 1-28 with the Scorcher build https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425269-The-Scorcher-(WF-18-Sorc-2-Fvs-Shiradi)

It was fun, and I enjoyed it. I just TR'd again today, into this build. I am going to have fun making my own personal comparison between the two. I appreciate you sharing the build idea, it's always enjoyable to try out other people's build concepts to see what's out there and how it plays in end game content. Kudos!

thesnoman
03-25-2014, 06:07 PM
I just played 1-28 with the Scorcher build https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425269-The-Scorcher-(WF-18-Sorc-2-Fvs-Shiradi)

It was fun, and I enjoyed it. I just TR'd again today, into this build. I am going to have fun making my own personal comparison between the two. I appreciate you sharing the build idea, it's always enjoyable to try out other people's build concepts to see what's out there and how it plays in end game content. Kudos!


Let me know what you think, and please post any changes you make along the way. Personally, RL is taking priority over playing and I don't have much time to enjoy the new content.


For everyone following this post:

Thank you all for the thoughts, suggestions, and compliments regarding the Toaster of Vengeance. At this point in time I have very limited play time due to a RL situation with a family member and DDO guild mate. She is in a losing battle with cancer and the time I and my guild spend in game is mostly spent helping her with what she wants to do and assisting her goals. As you may have guessed, improving this build isn't very high on her priority list.

Please keep this build alive and I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to answer any questions and see any further suggestions that crop up with the recent update.

~Snoman5878/Melkorr of Thelanis

Acaios
03-27-2014, 08:33 AM
sorry to hear that, lad. i hope the best for her, and i wish there was a heal scroll available in RL

thesnoman
04-16-2014, 05:58 PM
Thought I'd give everyone an update with what I've been playing with on this build...again.

I'm not playing as much due to the situation in the above post, but I've gotten an alt up to snuff to play with my guild mate so I can get back to E-TRing Melkorr...over...and over...and over... (OK - I'm only on my 5th E-TR now)

I've really gotten down to the nitty-gritty to make this even more survivable, but at the slim cost of DPS when using non-shiradi spells.

DISCLAIMER: THE FOLLOWING CHANGES ARE NOT MEANT FOR LEVELING FROM 1-20 THEY ARE MEANT FOR ETRs and LRs ONCE YOU HAVE SHIRADI AVAILABLE AND MOST, IF NOT ALL, OF YOUR END GAME GEAR.

This is a BLADEFORGED build.

Changes were needed to starting stats to accommodate the Feats I wanted to take.

Str - 8
Dex - 10
Con - 18
Int - 14
Wis - 6
Cha - 18

Feats - Big changes here - no Max/Emp since they do not affect Shiradi procs any longer and the SP cost is not worth the damage output gained for Fireball, DBFB, Eldars, and Niac's. (I do miss Max/Emp when soloing against the Black Dragon/Giant in Tor). I've played with several different choices for feats and this is the one I finally settled on. It's a bit controversial and many will disagree since you can Jump-Cast to eliminate the need for Mobile Spellcasting, but I like it and if you don't want to go this route, by all means stick with the original build.

Heroic Feats
Toughness
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness
Quicken Spell
Combat Casting
Mobile Spellcasting
Dodge

EPIC FEATS
Epic Toughness
Epic Mental Toughness
Epic Spellpower: Fire
Epic Spellpower: Force

Epic Charisma, Mobility, Hellball, or Ruin.

No Changes to Spells
No Changes to Enhancements

TWISTS
In Shiradi, EE
Tier 4: Sense Weakness
Tier 2: Flames of Purity (NEW! Divine Crusader +30 fire Spell Power)
If I can get my second twist to T3, this will change to Empyrean Magic from Divine Crusader
Tier 1: Unearthly Reactions

Any Destiny, EH
Tier 4: Energy Burst
Tier 2: Flames of Purity
Tier 1: Unearthly Reactions.

There are several other Twists that I use situationally that will not be listed here.



GEAR

Many changes are coming due to the most recent update, but I have had very limited play time and have been working on Epic Past Lives - stay tuned for gear updates.

Acaios
04-21-2014, 05:53 PM
another idea is to keep maximize (with 8 uses of free maximize) for boss fights. and take also adamantine body, in order to make a shadowscale docent with DR. in order to work, it needs 1 feat (adamantine body), 1 blue slot for -15% spell failure, 3AP in bladeforged` t1 inscribe armor (-15%) and EK core 2 (-5%), for the total 35%. and move potency to either halcyon boots or sage`s ring, or a 1handed thundeforged weapon with 17%crit to all elements.
if you are on a safespot on an end fight, you could also swap docents (provided you already keep the same helm) and benefit from the +15 spellpower from blue set. that`s one good part of the sorc, in comparison to a WF/BF wiz/fvs/monk shiradi who would get uncentered in adamantine body.

interrogation (t1 from divine crusader) looked promising on wiki (while spamming chain missiles), but on live it says that it can stack at max 1 every 2 seconds per mob. but still it`s a nice t1 twist.

edit: in addition to the DR from shadowscale docent, adamantine body also gives prr equal to BAB. in this case +12 PRR

Sarzor
05-13-2014, 11:35 AM
For those of you still running the WF variety of this build, I'd like to show off my build.

It's centered around my play-style which makes heavy use of SLA's for large numbers of procs. I tend to have my MM set to "all off" and everything else maximized/empowered.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 14 Sorcerer \ 4 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 444
Spell Points: 2582
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 28
Reflex: 21
Will: 24

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 10 16
Dexterity 10 16
Constitution 18 25
Intelligence 14 20
Wisdom 6 12
Charisma 16 28

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 0 13
Bluff 3 19
Concentration 8 41
Diplomacy 3 34
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 19
Heal -2 11
Hide 0 13
Intimidate 3 20
Jump 0 13
Listen -2 11
Move Silently 0 13
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 27
Search 2 16
Spellcraft 6 39
Spot -2 11
Swim 0 13
Tumble 1 14
Use Magic Device 4 31

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard


Level 2 (Sorcerer)


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist


Level 4 (Sorcerer)


Level 5 (Sorcerer)


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades


Level 8 (Favored Soul)


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate


Level 10 (Sorcerer)


Level 11 (Sorcerer)


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Sorcerer)


Level 14 (Sorcerer)


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 16 (Sorcerer)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 19 (Favored Soul)


Level 20 (Favored Soul)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Mental Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Fire


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Shield of Condemnation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Spellsword: Flame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Sor) - Battlemage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Immolation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Empower (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Awaken Elemental Weakness: Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Power of Force (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)


General gear is blue scale with heavy fort, EE crystal scepter/impulse of kinetic lore, ring of deceit.

It's not built for top-level EE quests, but it easily holds its own. The main weakness of it is low PRR, but displacement and 13 dodge go a long way. I also tend to ETR shortly after hitting 28, so haven't really played around with it at its full power.

Twists are:
4: Energy burst
2: Unearthly reactions
1: Cocoon/Perfect Balance

Teran
05-29-2014, 08:41 AM
Been playing a Shiradi toaster (Shiradi being my first ED) and it's awesome fun.

The challenge I hit is that I need to level other EDs as well, as I want twists. And those other EDs range from pure suck to average.

What are folks doing when they need to level other EDs? Which is 100% of the time now that I've capped Shiradi...


Thanks,
Teran

thesnoman
05-31-2014, 07:49 AM
Hi All - Been away for a few weeks. My mother-in-law and DDO Guild mate passed away a few weeks ago and I'm just now getting back on the Forums.

@Acaios

Toaster was never focused on PRR or AC. It's more about avoiding the damage all together. If you get hit - so be it - Recon and keep going.

While your idea has merit, Blue Slots are not the easiest to come by and it just isn't worth it to slot -15% ASF. I can see possibly taking the ASF from the WF/BF tree, but without a blue slot you're stuck on Mithril Body instead of Adamantine. Either way - a blue slot, 3AP, and a Feat seems an awful lot to invest in getting +12 PRR and a little AC.


I'm going to start playing with Twists from Divine Crusader to see what works an what doesn't, but more on that later.


@Sarzor

Interesting version. Doesn't fit my play style. Too much reliance on SLAs. As you may have noticed, I've dropped Max/Emp for Combat Casting and Mobile Spellcasting. It's not the most efficient, and I miss Max/Emp on Eldars and Niacs, but otherwise I like it much better than with Max/Emp.

@Teran

I'm trying to bang out Epic Completionist, so I'm in a similar boat as you are.

Run in whatever ED you are trying to bring up and use it's capabilities as best you can.

You will still rely on MM/FM/CM/SR for your killing. Fireball and DBFB will become more necessary. Run on EN/EH for faster completion times and XP. You're not worried about streaks or max XP per quest - you're more interested in XP per minute. Run in PUGs and groups that are farming XP because generally, grouping is faster XP than running solo.

Quests to run daily:
EVoN 3 and 4 (group or solo)
WizKing (group - 1-2 people per tower and you'll need someone to beat down the WizKing - you're basically worthless against him)
LoD Chain (solo or group)
Demonweb Chain (solo or group)
House of Rusted Blades (Solo 5-6 minutes)
Midler's Farmstead w/ all optionals (Solo - 10 minutes Group - 4-5 minutes)


If you haven't done them yet, do explorers in Epic areas...the XP builds quickly if you know where they all are. Run a major slayer pot while doing Explorers for the XP from slayers. Don't focus solely on slayers above 400.

Acaios
06-02-2014, 12:21 PM
Toaster was never focused on PRR or AC. It's more about avoiding the damage all together. If you get hit - so be it - Recon and keep going.

While your idea has merit, Blue Slots are not the easiest to come by and it just isn't worth it to slot -15% ASF. I can see possibly taking the ASF from the WF/BF tree, but without a blue slot you're stuck on Mithril Body instead of Adamantine. Either way - a blue slot, 3AP, and a Feat seems an awful lot to invest in getting +12 PRR and a little AC.


imo, it`s about how many consecutive hits you can take and not die (if you`re knocked down, or whatever). till you cast a recon.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Thunder-Forged

ML 26
+11 Enhancement Bonus
Shadow Phase - clicky 20 seconds, 3 uses
From the Shadows: On being missed in Combat: chance to deal 10-60 Negative Damage to the Attacker
Deathblock
Ghostly
130% Fortification
Blue Augment Slot

and additionally when upgraded if u have adamantine body
ML Increase to 28
Green Augment Slot
30 DR/Epic
60 DR/Epic while below 75% health

it has already fortification (saves 1 blue) and has a blue and a green slot (blue scale only has 1 blue).
and it`s mainly for the DR, which is bypassed only by a few raid bosses like e-dq, e-lob, e-velah, etc as far as i know.
and secondly for the prr, 36 from PL +16 from slot + 12 from adamantine body =64 for a 30% damage reduction.

AtomicMew
06-03-2014, 04:54 AM
imo, it`s about how many consecutive hits you can take and not die (if you`re knocked down, or whatever). till you cast a recon.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Thunder-Forged

ML 26
+11 Enhancement Bonus
Shadow Phase - clicky 20 seconds, 3 uses
From the Shadows: On being missed in Combat: chance to deal 10-60 Negative Damage to the Attacker
Deathblock
Ghostly
130% Fortification
Blue Augment Slot

and additionally when upgraded if u have adamantine body
ML Increase to 28
Green Augment Slot
30 DR/Epic
60 DR/Epic while below 75% health

it has already fortification (saves 1 blue) and has a blue and a green slot (blue scale only has 1 blue).
and it`s mainly for the DR, which is bypassed only by a few raid bosses like e-dq, e-lob, e-velah, etc as far as i know.
and secondly for the prr, 36 from PL +16 from slot + 12 from adamantine body =64 for a 30% damage reduction.

An interesting idea, but hard to see this as being worth it. You are losing your dodge bonus, and how are you counteracting all that ASF? I'd also like to see some proof that Dr/epic is only broken by those specific raid bosses.

Acaios
06-03-2014, 03:24 PM
The dodge chance is capped by the Maximum dexterity bonus of the armor worn, and cannot exceed 25%.

oh, you`re right. i only had in mind that with the maximum dexterity bonus, all i was losing was just some reflex saves.. that`s a bummer :/ and probably a deal breaker..

other than that, as i explained before: 15% from blue slot. 5% from core2 EK. 15% from BF`s inscribe armor. total 35%.

as for the dr, for the sake of it, i just tried it on a e/e quest in estar on my pure monk, and the mobs dont bypass it.

Krell
06-12-2014, 12:45 PM
Curious, if Paladin save caps are implemented, which appears to cap saves for 2 levels of Paladin at +8, would you still consider the two levels worth it? If not, what replacement class levels would be your next choice?

Link: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443355-Paladin-Changes#post5351230

Ivan_Milic
06-13-2014, 07:56 PM
16 sorc/4 fvs

AtomicMew
06-14-2014, 03:48 PM
Curious, if Paladin save caps are implemented, which appears to cap saves for 2 levels of Paladin at +8, would you still consider the two levels worth it? If not, what replacement class levels would be your next choice?

Link: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443355-Paladin-Changes#post5351230

Been using monk for a long time anyway. It requirees more sacrifice to get the saves up there, but it's possible. And even if you don't, evasion half the time has the same expected value as non-evasion save all the time.

pappo
06-16-2014, 05:29 PM
Both are good builds - they're just...different.

18/2 is a bit more forgiving survivability-wise since you have knockdown immunity and wings. (You can still get knocked down - it's just far less frequently than 14/4/2)

Once you're through Gianthold, KD immunity is far less important. For the newest content, 14/4/2 build far outstrips 18/2 just for the infinite blue bar and much higher damage output from Scorching Ray and your other fire spells (DBFB for example)

Personally I prefer the higher damage output and nearly infinite blue bar of the 14/4/2 build, but I sometimes do miss wings and KD immunity (soloing Partycrashers - the Giant in there is a Knockdown machine - and personally I think he's bugged because he moves at double speed all the time)

How does it obtain a "infinite blue bar" ?

pappo
06-30-2014, 05:56 PM
Why are you not using the fire SLA's available to fire savant ?

Just to test it, I redid your enhancements using the SLA's (Empowered and Maximized), and I never run out of SP.
I ran through mana alot when I followed your posted enhancements for Fire Savant. I am sure my gameplay caused a lot more mana use, but it was nice to run quests and be only down 1/3 or 1/2 SP when I got to a shrine by using SLA's.

thesnoman
07-10-2014, 05:49 AM
Why are you not using the fire SLA's available to fire savant ?

Just to test it, I redid your enhancements using the SLA's (Empowered and Maximized), and I never run out of SP.
I ran through mana alot when I followed your posted enhancements for Fire Savant. I am sure my gameplay caused a lot more mana use, but it was nice to run quests and be only down 1/3 or 1/2 SP when I got to a shrine by using SLA's.

Running with SLAs is a perfectly viable alternative with this build - and I do use them for leveling up to 20, at which time I swap to Shiradi and my SLAs are no longer used.

I'm also no longer using Max/Emp on this build - you just don't see that big of an improvement in damage when you take spell cost into consideration


How does it obtain a "infinite blue bar" ?

The spells used, with a crit chance in the high 40s/low 50s (you can get fire to around 60 - haven't done the math) and the Enhancements from AoV basically get you an infinite blue bar - just stick with the three missile spells and scorching ray in Shiradi and you'll basically never run out of spell points (until you start trying to solo EE Wheloon and Storm Horns)


Curious, if Paladin save caps are implemented, which appears to cap saves for 2 levels of Paladin at +8, would you still consider the two levels worth it? If not, what replacement class levels would be your next choice?

For what it's worth, at cap (28) I will be going from +20 to my saves to +8 - not worth the investment when you consider what you lose from the -2 Sorc levels.

As Mew already stated, Monk. There is no other choice for two levels that gives you as much power for the investment.

If I wanted to change race, I'd go with 16/4 Helf w/ Pally Dillen. AKA Fire Angle Build.



Anyways - fixed computer, playing again - should be paying more attention to the forums again as well.

Aramni
08-07-2014, 07:19 PM
I'm also no longer using Max/Emp on this build - you just don't see that big of an improvement in damage when you take spell cost into consideration


It's my understanding that you leave maximize/empower on all the time, but specifically turn it off (always off option from the right click) for your spam spells (MM/SR/CM etc..) and that way your shiradi procs receive the bonus spell power but it doesn't take anything out of your blue bar at all... That's how i've been running this anyways. If that doesn't actually work I'd be interested to know what feats you use instead of max/emp...

Also, when did they implement the cap in paladin saves? I've been away for a couple months now and am just starting reading the forums trying to get caught up on all the new stuff (including quests/gear) and had no idea this had occured :/

thesnoman
08-08-2014, 06:36 AM
It's my understanding that you leave maximize/empower on all the time, but specifically turn it off (always off option from the right click) for your spam spells (MM/SR/CM etc..) and that way your shiradi procs receive the bonus spell power but it doesn't take anything out of your blue bar at all... That's how i've been running this anyways. If that doesn't actually work I'd be interested to know what feats you use instead of max/emp...

See THIS THREAD (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/436029-Shiradi-testing-with-statistics). It used to work, but no longer does. I now have Combat Casting and Mobility - I like it, but many people will point out that it's a waste of two feats to get the speed of "Jump Casting". I've also run with Dodge/Mobility, Enlarge/Extend Spell, and many other variants. Everything caster related seems to work with this build, as well as a few things that aren't - you can decide what you like based on your play style/flavor. I'm up to 6 Epic Past lives and I've played with feats a lot during this time.


Also, when did they implement the cap in paladin saves? I've been away for a couple months now and am just starting reading the forums trying to get caught up on all the new stuff (including quests/gear) and had no idea this had occured :/

It hasn't been implemented yet. If/When it does, you'll likely see me moving this to a 16 Sorc/4 FvS/2 Monk build so I can have Evasion. My reflex saves won't be nearly as high, but I'll be saving for half every time.

Aramni
08-08-2014, 04:17 PM
It hasn't been implemented yet. If/When it does, you'll likely see me moving this to a 16 Sorc/4 FvS/2 Monk build so I can have Evasion. My reflex saves won't be nearly as high, but I'll be saving for half every time.

I'm assuming you meant 14/4/2?

And do you think that would be the best survivability option as opposed to having a potentially more powerful 16 sorc/4 FvS?

Or will the wizard build 14/4/2(monk) which is right now the counterpart to the sorc14/4/2pally splash be the superior version to run shiradi in?

Thanks again for all your advice, I love referring to this thread. Especially when refreshing my memory coming back to the game after long pauses :)

bigdmag
08-16-2014, 11:35 AM
Hey all. Quick question for everyone familiar with this type of build. I recently eTR. Before I did my force spell power was around the 340 mark ( not sure exactly but I know it was in this neighborhood). After my TR it is 299. I did swap empower and maximize for mobility and dodge and a few different spell choices but other than that its exactly the same. Anyone have any idea what I my be missing?

gear is exactly the same as I had on, enhancements are basically the same with the exception of efficient quickened instead of the ones for max/empower.

Aramni
08-17-2014, 10:51 PM
Hey all. Quick question for everyone familiar with this type of build. I recently eTR. Before I did my force spell power was around the 340 mark ( not sure exactly but I know it was in this neighborhood). After my TR it is 299. I did swap empower and maximize for mobility and dodge and a few different spell choices but other than that its exactly the same. Anyone have any idea what I my be missing?

gear is exactly the same as I had on, enhancements are basically the same with the exception of efficient quickened instead of the ones for max/empower.

I'm assuming you have leveled this back to 28? If you're wearing the exact same gear and took the exact same feats other than swapped out max and emp... I don't see how your spellpower could be any different.

Like I said I've recently returned though so maybe someone else has an idea of what could be wrong. Hope you figure it out mate :/

bigdmag
08-18-2014, 03:16 PM
I'm assuming you have leveled this back to 28? If you're wearing the exact same gear and took the exact same feats other than swapped out max and emp... I don't see how your spellpower could be any different.

Like I said I've recently returned though so maybe someone else has an idea of what could be wrong. Hope you figure it out mate :/

well 26, but that is where I last checked my spell power. I raced to 28 in 1 day and eTR, then back to 26. Same gear, same enhancements( with noted exception) and just swapped some feats for more defense. Not sure why this happened :(

Nodoze
08-20-2014, 05:49 AM
I'm assuming you meant 14/4/2?

And do you think that would be the best survivability option as opposed to having a potentially more powerful 16 sorc/4 FvS?

Or will the wizard build 14/4/2(monk) which is right now the counterpart to the sorc14/4/2pally splash be the superior version to run shiradi in?

Thanks again for all your advice, I love referring to this thread. Especially when refreshing my memory coming back to the game after long pauses :)I really liked reading this thread !!!

What are the best wizard-shiradi build threads as I would like to learn more and contrast/compare?

In my head I envision an Arch-Mage with Maximized/Empowered Force based SLAs as those should still work and would love to somehow mix in Rogue skills and a viable EE Insightful Reflexes based Evasion but not married to that...

Timap
08-20-2014, 06:11 AM
In my head I envision an Arch-Mage with Maximized/Empowered Force based SLAs as those should still work and would love to somehow mix in Rogue skills and a viable EE Insightful Reflexes based Evasion but not married to that...

You may be interested then in the Nova Shiradi (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438460-Nova-Shiradi-Palemaster-Supremacy-Shiradi-build) build.

Caprice
08-20-2014, 10:38 AM
With the upcoming Paladin changes proposing that the Defender stance drop to Paladin level 3, I wonder if there might be some interesting variant that uses that.

If you spend 6 AP in Sacred Defender you can pick up the Sacred Defense stance w/Resilient Defense 3 and Durable Defense 1: +15 PRR, +15 MRR, +50% threat (mixed pro/con there), and an effective +14 to saves (+11 from Divine Grace w/Paladin 3, and +3 from Resilient Defense). Another 7 AP spent will add another +10 PRR & +10 MRR (Durable Defense 3), and another +3 to saves from Resistance Aura. That would bring the saves almost back up to their current point and add a bit of mitigation to all damage; going from 0 PRR/MRR to 25 is 20% mitigation, or added to Dumathoin's (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Dumathoin%27s_Bracers) gives another 12.4% mitigation.

Dropping to 13Sorc loses Delayed Blast Fireball and a caster level, but dropping to FvS3 loses 3 caster levels via AoV's Intense Faith enhancement, so I would lean toward 13/4/3.

Nodoze
08-20-2014, 11:03 AM
You may be interested then in the Nova Shiradi (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438460-Nova-Shiradi-Palemaster-Supremacy-Shiradi-build) build.Thanks! Per your recommendation I read and asked some questions there as well and am now subscribed to it also!

I am keeping subscribed to this thread for it's great discussion and also for those wanting a Sorc based shiradi option including me when I want one of those as past lives...

Crann
08-25-2014, 06:51 PM
Or will the wizard build 14/4/2(monk) which is right now the counterpart to the sorc14/4/2pally splash be the superior version to run shiradi in?

This a question I have been asking myself.

I had a lvl 20 Human FvS and used my LR+20 to make him 13/7 FVS/Sorc and maxed out the Shiradi ED.

That build did crazy damage, but I really wanted the immunities BF offered and TR'ed him into this build. I take forever to level, so by the time I made it back to 20, they nerfed the max/emp mechanic for Shiradi.

It seems to me like there is a pretty substantial drop in DPS. This may be the better way to go to grind out some off-destinies, but when I am done with them, I really think the wiz version with free max/emp SLA missiles is the way to go for Shiradi missile spamming.

Nodoze
08-25-2014, 08:26 PM
This a question I have been asking myself.

I had a lvl 20 Human FvS and used my LR+20 to make him 13/7 FVS/Sorc and maxed out the Shiradi ED.

That build did crazy damage, but I really wanted the immunities BF offered and TR'ed him into this build. I take forever to level, so by the time I made it back to 20, they nerfed the max/emp mechanic for Shiradi.

It seems to me like there is a pretty substantial drop in DPS. This may be the better way to go to grind out some off-destinies, but when I am done with them, I really think the wiz version with free max/emp SLA missiles is the way to go for Shiradi missile spamming.My gut is from a force perspective and 10 chain missiles that the Wiz can be tops but it is hard to argue with the fire synergy of Sorc/FvS and the advanced casting speeds and abilities of Fire Savants seem pretty amazing. Personally I plan to go Wiz/FvS because I want to be Int based for Trapping skills but otherwise I would like to try a Sorc version to contrast/compare.

pappo
09-03-2014, 08:41 PM
I am following your build and am up to doing Vale quests. You had mentioned that fire spells were not viable in Vale, so I wondered what spell selection you used during your time in Vale.
I know I could bypass Vale quests and still reach 20 easily with this build, but I would like to do some Shroud runs so I will at least need to do the flagging quests for Shroud.

Thanks for the build. It has been a "blast".... no pun intended so far.

Sarzor
09-14-2014, 01:42 PM
I was wondering if fitting in adamanite armor would be advantageous with the U23 changes?

Playing this build it's been nice and makes mashwork of everything through EH and some easier EEs, but when it takes an EE hit, it really is not build to take one, let alone a few.

Nodoze
09-15-2014, 11:39 AM
I was wondering if fitting in adamanite armor would be advantageous with the U23 changes?

Playing this build it's been nice and makes mashwork of everything through EH and some easier EEs, but when it takes an EE hit, it really is not build to take one, let alone a few.The following thread is a shiradi BF/WF caster using heavy armor and you could review it to see the investments required to pick up heavy armor (feat/AP/slot) as well as some of the benefits:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444495-Secure-s-Build-Thread

Worst case we can see what feedback the build has after playing in U23 for awhile.

Fefnir_2011
09-15-2014, 06:52 PM
I am following your build and am up to doing Vale quests. You had mentioned that fire spells were not viable in Vale, so I wondered what spell selection you used during your time in Vale.
I know I could bypass Vale quests and still reach 20 easily with this build, but I would like to do some Shroud runs so I will at least need to do the flagging quests for Shroud.

Thanks for the build. It has been a "blast".... no pun intended so far.

Not OP obviously but maybe I can help. I mostly soloed as a Fire Savant Bladeforged from 15-20 recently and here's what I ran from 18-20 (no holding a level):

Vale
Ritual Sacrifice E (group)
Dust E (group)
Devils EHx2 (elite in group)
Rainbow EHx2
Coal Chamber E


IQ/DD
Eye of the Titan E
Reclaiming Memories E
Dream Conspiracy E

Wheloon
Friends in Low Places E
Lesson in Deception E
Thrill of the Hunt E
Army of Shadow E
Thru a Mirror Darkly E

High Road
Stay at the Inn E
Rest Stop E
Detour H
High Road S/R/E(about 100 slayer and all journals, I was bored)

Misc
Lords of Dust E
Eveningstar War Hospital E

Overall, my notes: Vale has a lot fewer devils than you think. Running with the Devils is very easy for a Fire Savant, i found. The hardest one was Rainbow, and I still managed to get 2k/min on elite and 1.5k/min after. Wheloon was also suprisingly easy, although it ran much, much closer to the 1k/min mark. High Road (way too many reflex saves) and DD/IQ (massive bags of HP) were not worth it, IMO, and I should have run MORE Vale, not less. Ice Storm, the DoTs, and missile spam was enough to kill fire-immune mobs, it was just a little slower.

kendo
11-04-2014, 05:57 PM
haven't seen thesnoman around for a while, at least in this thread. was wondering if anyone that has been using this build made any big changes after U23 went live

other than equipment upgrades, I didn't see a lot that would change in the build itself but I am very far from being any kind of build expert. which is why I rely on fine folks, like thesnoman, to help me out with suggestions and examples of good quality builds :)

moo_cow
11-06-2014, 11:16 PM
haven't seen thesnoman around for a while, at least in this thread.

I'm pretty sure he melted.

kendo
11-11-2014, 02:48 PM
I'm pretty sure he melted.

any non-puddle players still using a build like this after the updates :)

pappo
11-11-2014, 10:13 PM
haven't seen thesnoman around for a while, at least in this thread. was wondering if anyone that has been using this build made any big changes after U23 went live

other than equipment upgrades, I didn't see a lot that would change in the build itself but I am very far from being any kind of build expert. which is why I rely on fine folks, like thesnoman, to help me out with suggestions and examples of good quality builds :)

I just made level 26 with the build and pretty much followed the original post. I have changed out the Twilight staff for a Tier 2 Thunderforged Morningstar and Thunderforged Orb. That gave me the following for Tier 1:

Dwarvencraft Potency: Passive: +100 Equipment Bonus to Universal Spell Power.
Dwarvencraft <Spell-Power Type>:1 Passive: +150 Equipment Bonus to <Type> Spell Power.

Tier 2
Dwarvencraft Focus: Passive: +3 Equipment Bonus to all Spell DCs.
Dwarvencraft <Evocation> Focus:2 Passive: +6 Equipment Bonus to the DC to resist your <Evocation> spells.

I added a Draconic Soul Gem to the orb for the +30 on fire,cold,elect,acid resists.

My fire spell power now is 369.

I completed Draconic and Magister Destinies and working on Fatesinger so I can move over to the Martial ring on my way to Shiradi.
Still just spamming fire spells, and Ice storm when the mob is immune to fire.

Still having fun with the build.

kendo
11-13-2014, 11:22 AM
I just made level 26 with the build and pretty much followed the original post. I have changed out the Twilight staff for a Tier 2 Thunderforged Morningstar and Thunderforged Orb. That gave me the following for Tier 1:

Dwarvencraft Potency: Passive: +100 Equipment Bonus to Universal Spell Power.
Dwarvencraft <Spell-Power Type>:1 Passive: +150 Equipment Bonus to <Type> Spell Power.

Tier 2
Dwarvencraft Focus: Passive: +3 Equipment Bonus to all Spell DCs.
Dwarvencraft <Evocation> Focus:2 Passive: +6 Equipment Bonus to the DC to resist your <Evocation> spells.

I added a Draconic Soul Gem to the orb for the +30 on fire,cold,elect,acid resists.

My fire spell power now is 369.

I completed Draconic and Magister Destinies and working on Fatesinger so I can move over to the Martial ring on my way to Shiradi.
Still just spamming fire spells, and Ice storm when the mob is immune to fire.

Still having fun with the build.

thank you Pappo, appreciate the feedback and glad to hear the build is still performing well for you after the updates. the new TF items look like they will work nicely with the build and gives me something to look forward to when I get to that level.

pappo
11-13-2014, 10:22 PM
thank you Pappo, appreciate the feedback and glad to hear the build is still performing well for you after the updates. the new TF items look like they will work nicely with the build and gives me something to look forward to when I get to that level.

Yes, the TF items have really helped. The next thing I will add, at level 26, is the Shadowscale Docent http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Shadowscale_Docent

thesnoman
11-22-2014, 08:43 PM
OK - so I took a hiatus from this build to work on...well...completionist.

It's been a long hard road, but I've finally made it. I'm now working on this build a bit again and haven't decided if the 2 pally is worth it with the upcoming changes to Divine Grace...we shall see.

Lots of good questions have been floated around and many others have kept this thread alive and kicking.

As I said - I'm back to this build - only with the completionist feat - so We'll see how things progress...

Trillea
11-22-2014, 09:35 PM
OK - so I took a hiatus from this build to work on...well...completionist.

It's been a long hard road, but I've finally made it. I'm now working on this build a bit again and haven't decided if the 2 pally is worth it with the upcoming changes to Divine Grace...we shall see.

Lots of good questions have been floated around and many others have kept this thread alive and kicking.

As I said - I'm back to this build - only with the completionist feat - so We'll see how things progress...

Welcome back, very interested in this thread. Just finished my completionist and right now I am running 20 sorc in draconic/fatesinger (dmg/enchant DC), but may well LR into this for some lives for epic completionist...

thesnoman
11-23-2014, 12:25 AM
OK - coming back to this build - and all of the changes that have taken place whilst I have been zerging 1-20 content.

It looks like the Devs are hellbent on nerfing Divine Grace

From the current Known Issues:

Divine Grace is not currently limiting its saving throw benefit based on Paladin level. This change will be done for a future game update.

I'm guessing that "a future game update" is U24, although it is not mentioned on Lamannia. (Anyone playing on Lamannia care to let me know if it looks like it's going live?)

Anyhow - if/when Divine Grace is nerfed - the Toaster must finally lose it's 2 Pally levels. What to do...what to do? It's looking like I'll be taking either 2 monk or 2 rogue for evasion (Probably monk) OR I'll drop the 2 pally levels for 2 more Sorc levels.

I've re-worked things a bit for U22/U23 and I'll be testing out some changes to the build that may beef this toon up a bit. I'm currently at Level 21, so I'm not fully prepared to go into detail, but right now I'm running this as a 16/4 Bladeforged (Requires a LR+1) with essentially the same enhancements that are listed way back on page 1.

I'm going to look into Adamantine Body, but I'm not sure it's going to be worth it. I'm not sold on the ShadowScale Docent UNLESS you can fit adamantine body in...Will have to wait until I can build one to test it out.

thesnoman
11-25-2014, 10:10 PM
As mentioned above, it looks like the Devs are still planning on nerfing Divine Grace, so I'm playing around with some changes to the build. So far I've tried straight up Bladeforged 16/4 Sorc/FvS. It's OK, but I'm looking for more...(Level 22 and just haven't gotten the same feel with the lack of Pally levels - although I really haven't had much of a challenge yet.)

So I decided to take a good hard look at what else would have decent synergy with the Sorc/FvS build. Back to the planner I go and THIS is what I've come up with:

Toaster of Vengeance, Lawful Good Warforged: 14 SORCERER / 4 FAVORED SOUL / 2 MONK w/ Shiradi Champions
If you are planning on playing Bladeforged for this build it will require a LR+3. You should only take the required first Pally Level prior to Lesser Reincarnating.
During your LR, take your first level as Sorcerer to remove the Paladin Level imposed by the Bladeforged Race.
After this change, ONLY change Sorcerer levels to Monk. Do Not Change Favored Soul Levels to Monk or you will be required to LR again.


STARTING STATS 36-point build
STRENGTH - Warforged: 8 Bladeforged: 8
DEXTERITY - Warforged: 12 Bladeforged: 10
CONSTITUTION - Warforged: 18 Bladeforged: 18
INTELLIGENCE - Warforged: 14 Bladeforged: 14
WISDOM - Warforged: 6 Bladeforged: 6
CHARISMA - Warforged: 16 Bladeforged: 18 (All Level Ups go here)

Tomes: I have all +5 Tomes on this toon - they're not necessary, but it's very helpful to have +3 or higher in Charisma, Intelligence, and Constitution. If you want Dodge as one of your Monk Feats, you'll need to have a +3 Dexterity tome on this toon by the time you take your Monk Levels.

Past Lives: I finally got completionist done on this toon. (My first one!! YAY for me!!!). This can be a first life (32-point) build - it's easier to have a 36-point build and at least one Sorc past life, but it's not required. Basically Anything you add to this build will make it stronger, so more is always better. I will be building this toon assuming 36-point Starting Stats. For less, remove points from Intelligence - I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS BUILD AS A 28-POINT BUILD.
.
Leveling order: SSSSSSSSFFMMSSSSSSFF
If you are a first life toon or you haven't eaten a +3 Dex Tome prior to starting this build, you'll need to wait to take your Monk Levels until AFTER you eat the +3 Tome.


FEATS (Alternate)
1 Mental Toughness (Maximize)
3 Completionist (Empower)
6 Improved Mental Toughness (Mental Toughnes)
9 Quicken Spell (Quicken Spell)
11M Toughness (Dodge)
12M Dodge (Mobility)
12 Combat Casting (Improved Mental Toughness)
15 Mobile Spellcasting (Toughness)
18 Force of Personality (Extend Spell/Past Life Feat/Toughness)

Epic Toughness (21)
Epic Mental Toughness (24)
Epic Spellpower: Fire (26)
Epic Spellpower: Force (28) (Can substitute Hellball here)

SKILL POINTS
Concentration (23)
Spellcraft (23)
Perform(22=11)
Repair(22 = 11)
UMD (10 = 5)
Tumble (2 = 1)
Remainder in your choice

TWISTS
4. Energy Burst/Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Draconic Incarnation / Tier 4 FoTW)
3. Empyrian Magic/Flames of Purity (T3 Divine Crusader/T2 Divine Crusader)
1. Unearthly Reactions (Tier 1 Magister)
1. Perfect Balance (T1 GMoF) - (Once I have Epic Completionist)

Bold is what I've been primarily running in

SAVES (UnBuffed)
Fortitude - 44
Reflex - 43
Will - 54

HIT POINTS (UnBuffed)
862

SPELL POINTS (UnBuffed)
3511

SPELL POWER (UnBuffed)
Acid: 304
Cold: 264
Electric: 353
Fire: 449*
Force: 404*
Light: 319
Negative: 259
Positive: 259
Repair: 312*
Sonic: 309

*These are the primary spells you will be casting with this build, so you'll want them as high as possible.

Spells
Sorcerer
Level 1 - Magic Missile, Jump, Shield, Feather Fall
Level 2 - Scorching Ray, Gust of Wind, Knock, Invisibility/Spawn Screen*
Level 3 - Chain Missile, Fireball, Displacement, Lightning Bolt
Level 4 - Force Missile, Dimension Door, Solid Fog, Ice Storm
Level 5 - Eldars Electric Surge, Niac's Biting Cold, Protection From Elements
Level 6 - Disintegrate, Reconstruct (GH from previous build is delegated to a Draconic Necklace)
Level 7 - Delayed Blast Fireball

FvS
Level 1 - Bless, Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith
Level 2 - Lesser Restoration/Spawn Screen*

Bold/Italic - These spells are essential
* - Lesser Restoration is nice to have early in the game and if you Solo (gotta love Constitution Damage), but it can be swapped for Spawn Screen (Yes Spawn Screen - this is to mitigate the mass Trash that spawns in Fall of Truth when someone dies). If you Swap Lesser Restoration for Spawn Screen (FvS), you can swap Spaen Screen for Invisibility (Sorc). Either way - if you plan on running FoT, make sure you have Spawn Screen.


GEAR (Current)

HELM: Helm of the Blue Dragon +3 Charisma (Green Slot: Sapphire of Heavy Fort Yellow Slot: Globe of True Imperial Blood )
NECKLACE: Charismatic +10 Necklace of Spellsight +20
GOGGLES: Clever +8 Goggles of Natural Armor +8 (Yellow Slot: Topaz of Power Colorless Slot: Diamond of Insightful Con +2)
TRINKET:Manual of Stealthy Pilfering (Green Slot: Sapphire of PRR +16)
ARMOR: Flawless Blue Dragonscale Docent (Blue Slot: Sapphire of False Life +40 )
CLOAK: Jeweled Cloak (Green Slot:Protection +8 Yellow Slot: Draconic Soul Gem )
BRACERS: Ogre Power +10 Bracers of False Life +45
BELT: Health +9 Belt of Dodge 10%
RING1: Ring of Shadows (Yellow Slot: Sonic Resist 30 ) Ring of the Djinn for Fall of Truth
RING2: Ring of Deceit (Yellow Slot: Deathblock Colorless Slot: +2 Strength )
BOOTS: Spiked Boots (Green Slot: Resistance +8 Yellow Slot: Dexterity +8 )
GLOVES: Greensteel Concordant Opposition
QUIVER: Quiver of Alacrity

WEAPONS:
1. COMPLETE THUNDERFORGED ALLOY KAMA: Dwarven Fire Lore (22% Crit) / Dwarven Evocation Focus (+6 Evocatio DCs) / Dwarven Combustion (+150 Fire Spell Power) Orange Slot: Meridian Fragment / Colorless Slot: Insightful Intelligence +2
2. COMPLETE THUNDERFORGED ALLOY KAMA: Dwarven Kinetic Lore (22% Crit) / Purple Augment (Magnetism 114) / Dwarven Impulse (+150 Force Spell Power) Orange Slot: Reconstruct 114 / Colorless Slot: Vitality +20

------------------- BELOW HAS NOT FINISHED YET AS I AM STILL WORKING OUT OPTIMAL GEAR --------------------
GEAR (Farmin/Optimal) * - acquired

*HELM: Helm of the Blue Dragon +3 Charisma OR +3 Intelligence Version (Green Slot: Sapphire of Heavy Fort Yellow Slot: Globe of True Imperial Blood )
NECKLACE: Charismatic +11 Necklace of Spellsight +20
GOGGLES: Epic Glimpse of the Soul (Blue Slot: +2 Constitution)
TRINKET: Planar Focus of Erudition (+3 Charisma OR +3 Intelligence Version - opposite of helm)
ARMOR: Flawless Blue Dragonscale Docent (Blue Slot: Fortification 100% )
CLOAK: Jeweled Cloak (Green Slot:Protection +8 Yellow Slot: Draconic Soul Gem )
BRACERS: Sage's Cuffs
BELT: Health +9 Belt of Dodge 9% (Colorless Slot: Strength +7) Would Like a Health +10 of Dodge X% with a slot to even out my Con.
RING1: Ring of Shadows (Yellow Slot: Sonic Resist 30 ) Ring of the Djinn for Fall of Truth
RING2: Ring of Deceit (Yellow Slot: Deathblock Colorless Slot: +2 Strength )
BOOTS: Spiked Boots (Green Slot: Resistance +8 Yellow Slot: Dexterity +7 )
GLOVES: Greensteel Concordant Opposition (This may change - I'm trying to determine if I need Con-Op)
QUIVER: Quiver of Alacrity

__________________________________________________ ______________________

pappo
11-26-2014, 06:55 AM
As mentioned above, it looks like the Devs are still planning on nerfing Divine Grace, so I'm playing around with some changes to the build. So far I've tried straight up Bladeforged 16/4 Sorc/FvS. It's OK, but I'm looking for more...(Level 22 and just haven't gotten the same feel with the lack of Pally levels - although I really haven't had much of a challenge yet.)

So I decided to take a good hard look at what else would have decent synergy with the Sorc/FvS build. Back to the planner I go and THIS is what I've come up with:

Toaster of Vengeance, Lawful Good Warforged: 14 SORCERER / 4 FAVORED SOUL / 2 MONK w/ Shiradi Champions
If you are planning on playing Bladeforged for this build it will require a LR+3. You should only take the required first Pally Level prior to Lesser Reincarnating.
During your LR, take your first level as Sorcerer to remove the Paladin Level imposed by the Bladeforged Race.
After this change, ONLY change Sorcerer levels to Monk. Do Not Change Favored Soul Levels to Monk or you will be required to LR again.
[/B][/I]

I have a toon following this build, and I am up to level 26 at this time. It has been the most fun Sorc I have run in a long time. I finished Draconic and Magister but still working on Fatesinger to get moving towards Shiradi. Still working on getting the gear. I plan to eTR him when I reach 28. What changes did you make to the enhancements when you added the monk levels ?

Also, I get confused about the TR / eTR process. If I just want to Epic TR my current Bladeforged Toaster, into your new WF monk version, do I still need to use a LR+3.

thesnoman
11-26-2014, 04:51 PM
What changes did you make to the enhancements when you added the monk levels ?
None - Zip - Zilch - Zero.
Enhancements stay exactly the same.


Also, I get confused about the TR / eTR process. If I just want to Epic TR my current Bladeforged Toaster, into your new WF monk version, do I still need to use a LR+3.

ETR is basically a LR+0 that drops you back to 20 and you get to choose one of the Epic Past Life feats that are available to you. You would still need to do a LR+3 to swap your Pally levels for Monk. You'll need to swap your first Pally level for Sorcerer. If you took Pally at 1 and 2 THATS OK - Swap your second Pally level for Monk with the Toughness Feat - Wait to take your second monk level when you have a +3 Dex tome available if you plan on taking Dodge (That translated to Level 12 if you took a starting Dex of 10).

pappo
11-26-2014, 11:37 PM
None - Zip - Zilch - Zero.
Enhancements stay exactly the same.



ETR is basically a LR+0 that drops you back to 20 and you get to choose one of the Epic Past Life feats that are available to you. You would still need to do a LR+3 to swap your Pally levels for Monk. You'll need to swap your first Pally level for Sorcerer. If you took Pally at 1 and 2 THATS OK - Swap your second Pally level for Monk with the Toughness Feat - Wait to take your second monk level when you have a +3 Dex tome available if you plan on taking Dodge (That translated to Level 12 if you took a starting Dex of 10).

Thanks thesnomal - that's good to know. I am going to level to 28 and stay there until I can farm up all the gear you recommended. Like I said, this is a fun toon.

Makkuroi
11-27-2014, 04:43 AM
any thoughts about going 3 levels of pally (for stance) and adamantine body? that way you can stay bladeforged, too. But losing delayed blast fireball might be too much. maybe 15 sorc 2 fvs 3 pally or 14/3/3. Going adamantine of course takes some AP and an augment slot for spell failure.

edit: actually its just 4 AP, so i think adamantine body is probably a good idea. lots of PRR/MRR and shadowscale docent

thesnoman
11-27-2014, 08:21 PM
any thoughts about going 3 levels of pally (for stance) and adamantine body? that way you can stay bladeforged, too. But losing delayed blast fireball might be too much. maybe 15 sorc 2 fvs 3 pally or 14/3/3. Going adamantine of course takes some AP and an augment slot for spell failure.

edit: actually its just 4 AP, so i think adamantine body is probably a good idea. lots of PRR/MRR and shadowscale docent

It could be done...I'm still not sold on the ShadowScale Docent being better for this build than Blue Dragonscale. Lots of people have mentioned it, but you:

A. Need to take the Adamantine Body feat instead of something else more useful. Keep in mind that Feats here are very tight (Less so on the Monk Build - but you lose Evasion with Adamantine Body)
B. Need to spend 4 AP on Enhancements to get rid of ASF - not sure what I'd want to give up to get those 4 AP...

As for taking 3 Pally for stance...ummm...no. You blow this whole build out of the water by putting that many AP into a Pally tree. The point of this build is for the synergy between Angel of Vengeance and Fire Savant. The 2 Pally splash was for Divine Grace - which was giving me +23 to all saves. Since Divine Grace is getting hit by a big old NERF bat SOON, it's time to move on.

And who says I can't stay Bladeforged? I'm playing a Bladeforged 14 Sorc / 4 Fvs / 2 Monk right now.

Makkuroi
11-29-2014, 02:11 PM
Well, to take a non-pally bladeforged costs you a +1 heart which is quite expensive (especially if considering to TR again). Having a lot of PRR and MRR (only 6 AP by the way for stance) reduces incoming damage by a significant amount, while getting high saves for evasion is difficult on a cha-based build without pally levels.

But AP are tight on a 3-class build, you always have to make choices. Im currently running a 10 rogue 6 monk 4 pally build without ninja spy shadow fade since I dont have enough AP.

thesnoman
11-29-2014, 07:52 PM
Well, to take a non-pally bladeforged costs you a +1 heart which is quite expensive (especially if considering to TR again). Having a lot of PRR and MRR (only 6 AP by the way for stance) reduces incoming damage by a significant amount, while getting high saves for evasion is difficult on a cha-based build without pally levels.

But AP are tight on a 3-class build, you always have to make choices. Im currently running a 10 rogue 6 monk 4 pally build without ninja spy shadow fade since I dont have enough AP.

Please understand where I'm coming from as I put a great deal of time and effort into calculating what works and what doesn't. I also play test and spend my own TP/Plat/Shards on this build. I put it out here because it already works and because it's fun to play (for me). I've also gotten a lot of great feedback from people that have played and continue to play this build. I view this build as a constantly evolving entity - whenever the Devs release new content or make big changes, (especially when they're announced ahead of time or are on Lammania), I try to stay ahead of the release and evolve the build accordingly. I also had specific goals laid out for this build - which you can find on page 1 of this thread - that I continue to strive to meet when making any changes to the build.

Some thoughts:

1 - This build does not require you go Bladeforged - it was created before Bladeforged were released and it works just as well with regular Warforged.
2 - If you want to go Bladeforged and you want to play the original build, it's still very viable. Even after the Devs implement the cap of +8 to Saves for 2 Pally levels from Divine Grace, it will continue to be viable - just not as much.
3 - If you want to try the Monk splash version, it does require a minimum of a +1 heart to accomplish. (Reality is that if you level to 20 before using a heart, you'll need a +3) That's entirely up to whomever decides to try this out. It's laid out in plain English that playing this build as a Bladeforged requires a +1 or +3 heart - if you don't like it, or it's too pricey for you, don't play it or play the Warforged version.
4 - You're suggesting the following:

Change the build from a 16/4/2 to a 15/4/3 or 16/3/3 in order to keep Pally, keep Divine Grace viable, and get a Pally Stance.
Invest 4 AP to reduce your ASF so you can use Adamantine Body and 6 AP to get your Pally Stance.
Take the Adamantine Body Feat in place of some other feat that benefits the Toaster Build.

Essentially you've created your own build. I suggest you try it out and let us all know how it plays out for you. Personally, I don't think the benefits of the changes you suggest outweigh the change to Monk I have made, but then again - the changes you've made certainly don't fit my play style.

The original build was 14/4/2 Sorc/FvS/Pally. It has remained so until the devs decided to take what made this build special and nerf it into oblivion.
In evolving with the game I decided to ditch the 2 pally for 2 monk because it didn't require any changes to the other parts of this build and you get benefits that now outweigh the +8 to all saves you'll end up getting from the neutered version of Divine Grace that the Devs are about to release.

I'm all for bouncing ideas around, but the one you suggest simply is too much change to make it work on this build.

thesnoman
11-29-2014, 08:21 PM
What changes did you make to the enhancements when you added the monk levels ?


None - Zip - Zilch - Zero.
Enhancements stay exactly the same.

OK - So I lied...I'm still playing with this a bit, but I think I've settled on the following:

You no longer have Maximize/Empower Spell so Efficient Maximize/Empower enhancements are no longer taken.

Take Efficient Quicken on the AoV Tree
Take 2 Pierce Fire Resistance and Fire Guard in the Fire Savant Tree



https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7465/15290163903_ceb134eec5_c.jpg

Angelic-council
12-01-2014, 01:05 AM
Just curious. Would there be any problems if you drop 1 sorcerer level in exchange of + 1 FvS for +3 maximum caster level?

Makkuroi
12-01-2014, 02:10 PM
Please understand where I'm coming from as I put a great deal of time and effort into calculating what works and what doesn't. I also play test and spend my own TP/Plat/Shards on this build. I put it out here because it already works and because it's fun to play (for me). I've also gotten a lot of great feedback from people that have played and continue to play this build. I view this build as a constantly evolving entity - whenever the Devs release new content or make big changes, (especially when they're announced ahead of time or are on Lammania), I try to stay ahead of the release and evolve the build accordingly. I also had specific goals laid out for this build - which you can find on page 1 of this thread - that I continue to strive to meet when making any changes to the build.

Some thoughts:

1 - This build does not require you go Bladeforged - it was created before Bladeforged were released and it works just as well with regular Warforged.
2 - If you want to go Bladeforged and you want to play the original build, it's still very viable. Even after the Devs implement the cap of +8 to Saves for 2 Pally levels from Divine Grace, it will continue to be viable - just not as much.
3 - If you want to try the Monk splash version, it does require a minimum of a +1 heart to accomplish. (Reality is that if you level to 20 before using a heart, you'll need a +3) That's entirely up to whomever decides to try this out. It's laid out in plain English that playing this build as a Bladeforged requires a +1 or +3 heart - if you don't like it, or it's too pricey for you, don't play it or play the Warforged version.
4 - You're suggesting the following:

Change the build from a 16/4/2 to a 15/4/3 or 16/3/3 in order to keep Pally, keep Divine Grace viable, and get a Pally Stance.
Invest 4 AP to reduce your ASF so you can use Adamantine Body and 6 AP to get your Pally Stance.
Take the Adamantine Body Feat in place of some other feat that benefits the Toaster Build.

Essentially you've created your own build. I suggest you try it out and let us all know how it plays out for you. Personally, I don't think the benefits of the changes you suggest outweigh the change to Monk I have made, but then again - the changes you've made certainly don't fit my play style.

The original build was 14/4/2 Sorc/FvS/Pally. It has remained so until the devs decided to take what made this build special and nerf it into oblivion.
In evolving with the game I decided to ditch the 2 pally for 2 monk because it didn't require any changes to the other parts of this build and you get benefits that now outweigh the +8 to all saves you'll end up getting from the neutered version of Divine Grace that the Devs are about to release.

I'm all for bouncing ideas around, but the one you suggest simply is too much change to make it work on this build.

as you said, it was just ideas, not a negative critique on your build. Actually a more offense-oriented build (with 4 fvs levels for max crits) is probably better than my idea, as there is "enough" defense when you dont die, and every extra point of damage helps to make quests shorter.

And probably I just dont think enough about some ideas because I dont want to/cant make it work (I probably couldnt get high enough saves on monk and wouldnt want to spend the heart) A tankish sorc with 3 paladin levels is probably better off as draconic anyway, shiradi is quite good at staying ranged if necessary.

Gleamingthecube
12-02-2014, 04:36 PM
SKILL POINTS
Concentration (23)
Spellcraft (23)
Perform(22=11)
Repair(22 = 11)
UMD (10 = 5)
Tumble (2 = 1)
Remainder in your choice


I have been looking for a Sorc build for my next life and I like what you have done here. But I have to ask, why perform? What benefit does a non-bard get from this? You have bard PLs that you are trying to maximize? I'm a relative noob in DDO so if there is an obvious reason for this, I apologize. Seems (to me, the uneducated rookie) like UMD or maybe balance would be more useful.

thesnoman
12-02-2014, 07:04 PM
I have been looking for a Sorc build for my next life and I like what you have done here. But I have to ask, why perform? What benefit does a non-bard get from this? You have bard PLs that you are trying to maximize? I'm a relative noob in DDO so if there is an obvious reason for this, I apologize. Seems (to me, the uneducated rookie) like UMD or maybe balance would be more useful.

Ahhh - the infamous Perform - little used and little understood.

It's all about maximizing spell power.

Spellcraft adds to Fire, Air, Force, and Earth (Acid) Spell Power.
Heal adds to Positive and Negative Energy Spell Power
Repair adds to Repair Spell Power

and Perform adds to...SONIC Spell Power.

Sonic Procs from Shiradi are about the second most common, so the higher my sonic spell power, the better.

thesnoman
12-04-2014, 11:12 PM
Updated Monk Build - current gear and stats. Working on Optimal Gear from U23 now. Haven't played much in Epic Orchard and I'm figuring out what gear I need to farm for this build.

QUICK LINK TO U23 VERSION OF THIS BUILD (14 Sorc/4 FvS/ 2 Monk) (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/429261-Toaster-of-Vengeance?p=5482419&viewfull=1#post5482419)

Bluenoser
12-06-2014, 05:05 PM
Just curious. Would there be any problems if you drop 1 sorcerer level in exchange of + 1 FvS for +3 maximum caster level?

Curious about this as well, as I'm trying to decide between 16sorc/4fvs and 15/5 split with tier 5 from AoV. Off the top of my head, it would mean losing the 15% boost to fire (the create fire weakness debuff) and the 15% extra in force damage from tier 5 fire sorc tree. As well, the question is whether +3 to max caster level for fire and force actually does much good on this build. I don't think it would help the bread-and-butter spells scorching ray, MM and chain missile, not sure about energy burst, and this build doesn't take any of the fire sorc SLAs (hence, I'm guessing, why max/empower got dropped on the lastest version). Plus, I simply don't know if the +3 max from AoV stacks with the max caster bonuses to fire from the sorc tree's core abilities.

thesnoman
12-06-2014, 07:00 PM
Curious about this as well, as I'm trying to decide between 16sorc/4fvs and 15/5 split with tier 5 from AoV. Off the top of my head, it would mean losing the 15% boost to fire (the create fire weakness debuff) and the 15% extra in force damage from tier 5 fire sorc tree. As well, the question is whether +3 to max caster level for fire and force actually does much good on this build. I don't think it would help the bread-and-butter spells scorching ray, MM and chain missile, not sure about energy burst, and this build doesn't take any of the fire sorc SLAs (hence, I'm guessing, why max/empower got dropped on the lastest version). Plus, I simply don't know if the +3 max from AoV stacks with the max caster bonuses to fire from the sorc tree's core abilities.


16/4 is superior if you plan on going in Shiradi. The additional +3 to MCL just isn't worth it. You're already maxing the number of missiles from MM, CM, and SR - so MCL really doesn't matter any more.

You've got over 450 Fire Spell Power at level 28, so your energy burst is doing huge damage to everything that doesn't have evasion.

Max/Empower can be used while leveling with SLAs, but if you go with Bladeforged you start at Level 15 and you're already casting big damage with Fireball - SLAs become forgotten quickly unless you're in a long quest where you need to conserve Mana. That usually isn't much of a problem on this build though.

thesnoman
12-28-2014, 07:10 PM
Upon suggestion, I've tried this build.

It uses Free Maximize and Adamantine Armor.

at L28, my PRR/MRR is fairly good and my damage is slightly higher.


My survivability, however, seems to be lower than with a /2 monk splash.

I'm simply going to TR this and try something else entirely to get my PRR/MRR up higher. Not sure how it's going to work, but I'm going to try 14 Sorc/ 4 Pally / 2 Fvs OR 12 Sorc / 4 Pally / 4 FvS (The latter leaves me wanting a bit for spells, but I think I'm going to give it a try).

If neither of these builds leave me wow'd I'm going back to 14Sorc / 4 FvS / 2 Monk

GreyPawn
01-09-2015, 10:33 PM
Hey there thesnoman,

Been running this build for a few months now, and leveled a Bladeforged to 24 so far. A few items if you'd be willing to comment on:

• Running as Draconic the toaster seems most powerful. Trying to level other Epic Destinies however feels more difficult without Energy Blast as a go-to in-between Fireball blasts. Any modifications to the build or enhancements while building up enough fate points to keep Energy Blast around?

• Why Monk? It may just be me, but my Reflex Save, unbuffed, is 26 at level 24 (even in Ocean Stance). Evasion is not helping me. Ocean stance gives me a 1%. Did I somehow mess up when it comes to the Reflex save? The free Dodge and Toughness feats are nice, but the build feels squishier than my Toaster Wizard/Monk, with fewer go-to's against immune or resistant enemies.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

-GP

thesnoman
01-20-2015, 05:51 PM
• Running as Draconic the toaster seems most powerful. Trying to level other Epic Destinies however feels more difficult without Energy Blast as a go-to in-between Fireball blasts. Any modifications to the build or enhancements while building up enough fate points to keep Energy Blast around?

Draconis is, in fact, very powerful. Leveling through the Martial Sphere is probably the most painful part of getting to Shiradi. Draconis is still more powerful than Shiradi, but Shiradi is far more efficient. You'll likely never wish for a shrine again while running in Shiradi. (you'll simply use them when they are available and needed)


• Why Monk? It may just be me, but my Reflex Save, unbuffed, is 26 at level 24 (even in Ocean Stance). Evasion is not helping me. Ocean stance gives me a 1%. Did I somehow mess up when it comes to the Reflex save? The free Dodge and Toughness feats are nice, but the build feels squishier than my Toaster Wizard/Monk, with fewer go-to's against immune or resistant enemies.


If your reflex save is only ay 26, something is very wrong. It should be somewhere in the high 40's - low 50's if properly geared. Monk gives several benefits, but since the devs seem to be taking their sweet time releasing the Diving Grace Nerf, there's no need to have any more than 2 pally levels at this time, so keep them and run with it as long as possible.

pappo
01-20-2015, 06:42 PM
Draconis is, in fact, very powerful. Leveling through the Martial Sphere is probably the most painful part of getting to Shiradi. Draconis is still more powerful than Shiradi, but Shiradi is far more efficient. You'll likely never wish for a shrine again while running in Shiradi. (you'll simply use them when they are available and needed)
.

My "Toaster" is currently lvl 26 and finished Draconic. On my way to Shiradi.
I certainly agree that the other destinies are difficult to get through without energy burst help.
What exactly does Shiradi bring to the Toaster build?

Sinzar_
07-30-2015, 03:23 PM
I plan to TR into a modified bladeforge version of this. I made a few changes, and am curious if anyone notices any really poor decisions on this build before I get going. This will be my final life before completionist, and also the first time I do a true pure casting build (all my previous lives have been a version of melee or archery).


BF_Sorcerer
14/4/2 Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Paladin
Lawful Good Bladeforged


Level Order

1. Paladin . . . . 6. Sorcerer. . . .11. Sorcerer. . . .16. Paladin
2. Sorcerer . . . .7. Sorcerer . . . 12. Sorcerer . . . 17. Sorcerer
3. Sorcerer . . . .8. Sorcerer . . . 13. Sorcerer . . . 18. Sorcerer
4. Sorcerer . . . .9. Sorcerer . . . 14. Favored Soul. .19. Favored Soul
5. Sorcerer . . . 10. Sorcerer . . . 15. Favored Soul. .20. Favored Soul


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .+5. . . .4: CHA
Dexterity . . . .7. . . .+5. . . .8: CHA
Constitution. . 19. . . .+5. . . 12: CHA
Intelligence. . 14. . . .+5. . . 16: CHA
Wisdom. . . . . .6. . . .+5. . . 20: CHA
Charisma. . . . 18. . . .+5. . . 24: CHA
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CHA

Skills
. . . . . P .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .S .F. F .P. S. S. F .F
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . 3 .1 .1 .1. 1 .23
Spellcr . . .4 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . 4. 1. 1 .1. 23
Jump. . . 2 . . . . . . .½ .1 .1 .½ . . . . . . .5. 6 . . . . . 3 .4. 23
UMD . . . 2 . . . .1 .1 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ . . . .1½ . .1 .½. . .11
Perform . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . . .½ .1 . . . . 7
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .16 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .5 .5 .5 .5 .5 .5 .5 .5. 6 .6. 6. 6. 6 .6


Feats

.1. . . . : Mithral Body
.1 Deity. : Follower of: Lord of Blades
.3. . . . : Quicken Spell
.6. . . . : Maximize Spell
.9. . . . : Empower Spell
12. . . . : Past Life: Wizard
15. . . . : Mental Toughness
18. . . . : Improved Mental Toughness
19 Deity. : Child of: Lord of Blades
21 Epic . : Epic Mental Toughness
24 Epic . : Great Ability: Charisma
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Force
27 Epic . : Ruin
28 Destiny: Hellball


Spells

Sorcerer
Magic Missile, Jump, Shield, Feather Fall
Scorching Ray, Gust of Wind, Knock, Invisibility
Chain Missiles, Fireball, Displacement, Lightning Bolt
Force Missiles, Dimension Door, Ice Storm, Solid Fog
Teleport, Eladar's Electric Surge, Protection from Elements
Disintegrate, Reconstruct
Delayed Blast Fireball
Favored Soul
Nimbus of Light, Cure Light Wounds, Protection From Evil, Bless
Lesser Restoration

Enhancements (80 AP)

Bladeforged (11 AP)
Improved Fortification
Mechanist I, Inscribed Armor II
Communion of Scribing III

Fire Savant (33 AP)
Fire Savant, Fire Affinity, Greater Fire Affinity, Immolation
Burning Hands III, Spell Critical, Conflagration III
Spell Critical, Fanning the Flames III
Spell Penetration, Spell Critical, Charisma
Scorch III, Spell Critical, Charisma
Fireball III

Angel of Vengeance (30 AP)
Font of Power
Scourge III, Animus II, Smiting
Just Reward III, Smiting, Spell Power Boost III
Smiting, Charisma
Smiting, Intense Faith III, Charisma

Eldritch Knight (6 AP)
Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Flame
Toughness III, Battlemage I


Destiny (24 AP)

Shirardi Champion
Healing Spring III, Illusion of Well Being I
Prism, Fey Spring I, Fey Form III
Rainbow
Double Rainbow, Elemental Absorption III
Stand and Deliver, Nerve Venom III
Audience with the Queen

Twists of Fate (22 fate points)
Energy Burst: Fire (Tier 4 Draconic)
Empyrean Magic (Tier 3 Crusader)
Dragonhide (Tier 1 Draconic)

Euthorcize
08-04-2015, 07:10 PM
I tried a variation of this build(I went for 2 FVS instead of 4) and am finding a LOT of fire immune mobs at high levels. How do I cope with that? Even with some lightning spells and disintegrate, my DPS is not high enough to be effective when dealing with fire immune mobs.

bigdmag
08-05-2015, 12:20 PM
I tried a variation of this build(I went for 2 FVS instead of 4) and am finding a LOT of fire immune mobs at high levels. How do I cope with that? Even with some lightning spells and disintegrate, my DPS is not high enough to be effective when dealing with fire immune mobs.

If its immune to fire spam MM and let Shiradi do what it does.

Euthorcize
08-11-2015, 06:54 PM
I don't really know what epic feats or epic destiny to pick. Can anyone offer any input? What are the advantages of Sharadi and Draconic?

bigdmag
08-16-2015, 08:46 PM
I don't really know what epic feats or epic destiny to pick. Can anyone offer any input? What are the advantages of Sharadi and Draconic?

Depeneds on youe exact build and whether youre running EE or EH/EN.

If youre going to be a MM spammer build, then Shiradi will be your best destiny when you're in EE quests. For EH/EN you can switch to Draconic and be fine.

If youre going the AOE/DPS typical sorcerer build, most likely you'll do better in Draconic no matter what level your running on.

Epic feats that would most help either build : Epic Toughness, Epic Mental Toughness, Epic spell power ( whatever your focus is), Epic spell power Force ( if youre a MM spammer build)

It looks like to me you've strayed a bit from the original build, thereby creating something different than what this build was intended to do. You lose a little with a MM spammer by not taking the 4 levels of Favored Soul.

MM spam build really only need the main MM spells, which you would have at 14 sorcerer levels.

Your in Fire sevant because it meshes well with the Favored Soul enhancements.

If youre running things that have fire immune mobs and youre in Draconic and staying in Fire, then you will be ineffective.

There are a couple of ways you can go before you go into quests that have fire immune mobs.

1) switch back to Shiradi, and spam MM, you will still do good DPS, the fire immune mobs aren't immune to the force and sonic damage from Shiradi ( most likely)

2)If you want to stay in Draconic ( farming karma or something like that) take a few minutes and switch from Fire to Water. Grab the best Glaciation/ice lore item you can find and use Ice storm,niac's, dragon breath and energy burst. You can still throw MM's, they just wont do the extra Shiradi damage. I make this change all the time. You just reset the fire tree, and take the exact same enhancements, but in the water (cold) tree. When you're done running those quests, you can change it right back to Fire for some plat.


When your in shiradi and spamming MM and scorching Rays you have a bunch of things that can process for each of those MM and rays. its a small %, but with so many MM and Scorching rays coming out, they process a lot. Its Force and sonic damage. The Force damage is affected by all of your force spell power stuff and crit chances. I see 400 to 600 hits all the time, I see crits in the 1200 to 1600 range many times too. With Rainbow active I see random large procs in the thousands, anywhere from 2k to 10k. On top of that, you get a small chance to paralyze them as well, and if you twist in sense weakness, you get more damage on them while they are helpless. Ive seen crits near 15k.

In draconic, you lose all of that. Youre fireballs, firewalls and scorching rays will do more direct damage, but lose the chance for the shiradi procs. The only thing I find useful in draconic with this build is Energy burst and dragons breath. My Fireballs, firewalls and scorching rays hit for OK damage in EH/EN, in EE they save every time ( except for scorching ray, theres no save). Overall this kind of build loses quite a bit of sustained DPS in Draconic. You will have big energy bursts ( hits for 3 to 4k, crits for 8 to 10k)and dragon breaths ( same numbers) in Draconic but those are on timers. The shiradi MM spamming is never ending and fast timers.

Some toons may have better gear and see even bigger numbers than that, I am still searching for better gear :)

I do not go into EE's with this build in Draconic, You just cant do enough damage quickly enough to kill things that are aggroed on you. In shiradi I will solo some EE's. The difference is fairly substantial, IMO.