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View Full Version : CLR17/WIZ1/FTR2 Human Melee THF. Enhancements, feats, EDs, twists - build advice?



firemedium_jt
10-26-2013, 06:30 PM
Human 32pt

STR18_____ +2 tome +3 lvl ups to STR23 enough for OC. 38-42 buffed
WIS16_____ +4 tome +2 lvl ups. + more lvl ups. Around 38-42 just to mitigate some saving throws with Heighten. Not all saving throws
CON14_____ hit points 680-730 average
DEX8
CHR8_____ 10 turns are enough
INT8_____ +1 tome for lvl1 spells with +2 item. Master's Touch spell for Martial Prof at low lvl with Keen Falchions.


1 Toughness - prob swap and take Stunning Blow. Bring average HP 650-720 in FOTW/LD. 550-600 HP in Exalted Angel ED when maxing spell points.
1 Empower Heal
W1 Maximize
3 Power Attack
6 Empower
9 Quicken
12 Improved Critical Slash
15 Cleave
18 Heighten
F1 Great cleave
F2 Two Handed Fighting
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Improved Two Handed fighting
26 Perfect Two Handed fighting
27 Greater Two Handed fighting

28 ED feat ?

Perfect Two Handed fighting and Greater Two Handed fighting how they stack?

I like this build. Easy to gear and make. Main gear are EAGA, Holy Symbol of Lolth, and commendation gear Cleric, Wizwar, PDK. Lots of Divine Power items that I don't mind clicking. One is hot keyed and not used unless needed quickly. Drow Cloak Sneak Attack. Seeker VI. Accuracy. Deadly. Resistance +7. Greater Parry Villager Bracers. +6-7 on all stats. Just casual gear to be had quickly. EAGA was a grind with Snitch luck, but worth it.

Great Axes and Falchions of Metalline/Paralyzer/Holy Burst _of_ Righteousness/Sneak Attack/Pure Good/Bloodletter. Kinda migrating back to Falchions for mobs. Even though Base damage is lower criticals are more and critical bonuses are more often. EAGA with Adrenaline use and increase critical range. Falchions instead of Axes for mobs cause I think I will be in FOTW more than LD? Might just use EAGA cause [W] is where it is at for all my [W] attacks?

I have Aura and the Warpriest Ameliorating Strike that mass heals. I like some negative tree and have Necrotic Ray. I like it.

28 ED feat ?
Thinking Perfect 2 weapon for double strike for THF. Maybe Holy Strike. Can't take doublestrike on my weapon so how else get this up or take a different feat. Take another toughness?

Liking Fury Of The Wild with a twist of Momentum Swing [5w]. 5W time stacked with Adrenaline is nice almost guaranteed critical of over 3000+ damage. Prefer controlling my critical verse the randomness of Legendary Dreadnought with Headman's Chop. Agree?
Have not tried Master's Blitz. Seems to be better for soloing maybe. Reviews say hard to keep it going.
Unbridled fury is interesting, but my Vorpals are natural 20s right? My counter for Fury seems to be always 0 on it. I have not just hit it. Will it work? How hard to keep it up. How well does Adrenaline regen?
How are these?
Sense Weakness
Overwhelming Force
Fury Eternal - how well does it work?
Unbridled Fury Epic Moment
Injury
Boulder Toss (tried for one pt to unlock other and ended up putting 3 in)


feats?

If I drop toughness thinking Spell focus Evoc as pre req for ED Spell Focus twist.
Also considering Stunning blow. STR is around 38-42 buffed. Easy swap with Fred. Still got my free LR, but can save it. Got my LR+20 too. With FOTW or LD Stunning Blow seems to be recommended, even if it does not always work. Some good advice to use Stunning Blow with Sense Weakness, but i am not a Barbarian with STR60. Good gear options for Stunning Blow? Twist Legendary Tactics.

Twists?

How do you build you fate slots?

Right now
Slot1 - Tier 2 - Momentum Swing
Slot2 - Tier 1 - Endless Faith
Slot3 - ?

Thinking Lay Waste, Momentum Swing, and Endless faith, so initial will be 3/2/1. Final 4/2/1 or 3/3/1? Should allow some other mixes if needed. What twists you like?




P.S. 28 point newbie drop STR17 WIS15 INT9. Plan STR to 23.

axel15810
10-28-2013, 10:32 AM
I half a half orc 17C/2F/1W as well. I’m assuming your going for a melee/healing build. My 2 cents –

- Drop STR to 16 on character creation, put more into CHA. 6 build points for 1 rank of STR is too expensive. More CHA = better Divine might. Also more tuns is nice as well.

- Why so much WIS? I think it is a big waste for you to invest points here. Since you aren’t going to be a DC caster, you should drop WIS so your final number after gear and tomes is 19, which is all that is needed to cast lvl 9 spells. It is a waste otherwise since you are going to melee spec’d. You won’t have the feats, past lives or gear equipped to cast well, so mobs are almost always going to make their saves. Even with heighten, your spells are going to fail a large majority of the time. Just forget offensive casting on this build. You must specialize in DCs to do well with it in higher content, being a generalist doesn’t work…believe me I’ve tried it.

- Personally I’d probably forget stunning blow, my thoughts have changed on this. It’s hard enough for regular melee classes to get a DC for it that’s reliable for EE and EH. Going to be even tougher on a cleric. Not saying it’s not possible, but it’s going to be tough and you're going to have to make some feat/gear sacrifices to get it which I'm not sure is worth it. And you probably won’t want to fit in improved sunder to lower mobs fortitude saves. It may be best to let the real melees do the stunning.

- Personallly I’d take the cleaves earlier, they are very useful for low level content. Also I’d drop Heighten, pick up GTHF as a heroic feat to go along with what I said earlier.

I currently run in FoTW and twist in Momentum Swing. It's awesome, I use a EAGA myself and I'm getting 4.5k crits at times.

firemedium_jt
10-28-2013, 11:02 AM
Thanks for the advice. What other ED twists are you planning? Do you always stay in FOTW or do you use other EDs? ED feats? I am leaning toward Guardian or taking toughness and another Heroic feat.

With you THF build there do you use the Perfect Two Weapon Feat for doublestrike 5%?

axel15810
10-28-2013, 12:14 PM
Thanks for the advice. What other ED twists are you planning? Do you always stay in FOTW or do you use other EDs? ED feats? I am leaning toward Guardian or taking toughness and another Heroic feat.

With you THF build there do you use the Perfect Two Weapon Feat for doublestrike 5%?

I'm planning on PTWF/PTHF for epic feats. As far as I can tell these will be the best for increasing DPS.

I stay in FoTW always except when I'm healbotting a raid, then I'll use Angel.

I want to twist in Lay Waste when I get enough fate points for it. And then of course I'll keep using Momentum swing. Haven't decided on what I'll evenutally use for the 3rd twist yet.

Panzermeyer
10-28-2013, 01:27 PM
Human 32pt

STR18_____ +2 tome +3 lvl ups to STR23 enough for OC. 38-42 buffed
WIS16_____ +4 tome +2 lvl ups. + more lvl ups. Around 38-42 just to mitigate some saving throws with Heighten. Not all saving throws
CON14_____ hit points 680-730 average
DEX8
CHR8_____ 10 turns are enough
INT8_____ +1 tome for lvl1 spells with +2 item. Master's Touch spell for Martial Prof at low lvl with Keen Falchions.


1 Toughness - prob swap and take Stunning Blow. Bring average HP 650-720 in FOTW/LD. 550-600 HP in Exalted Angel ED when maxing spell points.
1 Empower Heal
W1 Maximize
3 Power Attack
6 Empower
9 Quicken
12 Improved Critical Slash
15 Cleave
18 Heighten
F1 Great cleave
F2 Two Handed Fighting
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Improved Two Handed fighting
26 Perfect Two Handed fighting
27 Greater Two Handed fighting


Swap the Spell metas with the cleave lines. As a cleric there are not many spells that will benefit from Empower and Quicken till later on in the game. Cleave and a Great cleave will serve you much better in getting through the lower content then the one or two spells you will get a boost from those metas. You don't throw a sound burst for damage, you throw it for crowd control.

With a 3 splash your DC's likely are going to suck no matter what at the highest levels. I would drop wisdom and dump into Cha to boost your divine might.

You also did not include the bonus human feat. As such I would recommend going Half-Orc for the boosts in THF if your main focus in THF melee fighting.

firemedium_jt
10-29-2013, 06:42 AM
I have a Horc with the same lvls and feats except no heighten and less WIS and even less CHR. With Orc fury +8 to Str and titan click thinking of swapping Toughness for Stunning Blow. Str50. I dumped the entire DD tree. I miss the spell power and spell pts, but I spec for warpriest and aura and most of the orc racial tree. Now it says my orc raging crush has 3 but my guy only has 1 charge?

What is timer for Orc fury Str boost?

With the guaranteed critical from crush is ED leg dread better with critica crush vs. FOTW?


*** Does vorpal from Orc raging crush regenerate adrenaline from FOTW???

______________________________




As for the human build

Heighten and metas are free with SLAs and burst. This stuff is cheap to use even if the first or even second attempt fails?


When you say dump wisdom and heighten is that because my spells will always fail or just get saved against 50%, 60%, 80% etc. Of the time. I was thinking with cheap SLAs it still might be worth some investment?

axel15810
10-29-2013, 09:25 AM
I have a Horc with the same lvls and feats except no heighten and less WIS and even less CHR. With Orc fury +8 to Str and titan click thinking of swapping Toughness for Stunning Blow. Str50. I dumped the entire DD tree. I miss the spell power and spell pts, but I spec for warpriest and aura and most of the orc racial tree. Now it says my orc raging crush has 3 but my guy only has 1 charge?

What is timer for Orc fury Str boost?

With the guaranteed critical from crush is ED leg dread better with critica crush vs. FOTW?


*** Does vorpal from Orc raging crush regenerate adrenaline from FOTW???

______________________________




As for the human build

Heighten and metas are free with SLAs and burst. This stuff is cheap to use even if the first or even second attempt fails?


When you say dump wisdom and heighten is that because my spells will always fail or just get saved against 50%, 60%, 80% etc. Of the time. I was thinking with cheap SLAs it still might be worth some investment?


Orcish Fury is a passive bonus there is no timer. However it is pretty much a useless enhancement since you have to have low HP for it to work. Especially on a cleric with aura and lots of selfhealing, you won't be low in HP hardly ever. Definitely not a reliable way to boost your tactics DCs.

I don't use Raging Crush. It looks decent but as a melee cleric I'm so clicky heavy already that some sacrifices have to be made to make the character easier to play. I'm already cycling through cleave/g cleave / momentum swing / lay waste, adrenaline, fighter haste boost, divine might, divine power, divine favor, rage pots, haste clickies. Not to mention keeping my eye on my and others healthbars...you get the picture. Also you have to be raged to use it, I'm not sure if this refers to barb rage or rage spell? In either case, in FOTW I have a healthy stack of adrenaline charges that recharge and do much more damage than raging crush so I don't bother.

No, I'm pretty sure Raging crush doesn't recharge your adrenaline uses since to recharge you need to roll a natural 20.

Having played both Horc and Human on this build, I actually like Human better although Horc is certainly a good choice. The 30% human heal amp is amazing on a cleric. It boosts your aura a lot and allows those maximize/empowered/ emp heal bursts to fill up most of your healthbar. All this gives you a huge boost to your survivability. It also increases your DPS since you have to spend less time actively healing yourself. And lets not forget about human damage boost and the extra feat!

I don't think messing around with SLAs will be worth it at all. Enemies will save almost always and even when they don't save the damage is going to be a fraction of your melee damage. You also won't have the enhancement points to waste. You're going to need to invest in the Horc, RS and Warpriest trees and some in Kensei. Although this will vary depending if you want to go with aura or with the T5 warpriest stuff. Personally I forget the healing strikes. The main things I go for in my build is T5 RS tree for aura, horc tree for all the THF enhancements and brutality, wall of steel and divine might from warpriest, and haste boost from kensei. I dont invest at all in the DD tree.

Panzermeyer
10-29-2013, 10:21 AM
As for the human build

Heighten and metas are free with SLAs and burst. This stuff is cheap to use even if the first or even second attempt fails?


When you say dump wisdom and heighten is that because my spells will always fail or just get saved against 50%, 60%, 80% etc. Of the time. I was thinking with cheap SLAs it still might be worth some investment?

Clerics basically have three possible roles.

Healer
Melee
Caster

At most you can be great in two. You should always be awesome in at least one. Most go either Melee/Healer or Caster/Healer. After all, what is the point in being a Cleric if you are not going to heal. There are better classes for a Melee/Caster.

If you try to be great at all three you are going to end up failing and be marginal at best in all three.

By boosting wisdom and trying for sla's while splashing for melee, and having good healing you will likely be fine in most heroic, but as soon as you hit epic you are going to find that you really aren't very good any any of those roles.

It seems that the route you really want to go is as a melee healer. Which is just fine. As such though then, just realize that the DC's on your spells are never going to be good enough at 18+ for them to land without the creatures making their saves. Yes you will be able to cast BB, and DP, and stuff like that, but it will not be your main source of damage just something nice to add if you have the SP.

Splashing deep into the SLA's will take action points away from either your healing or your combat or worse both. Why do that if everything is going to be saving against them or they are not fully maxed out for spell damage.

If you want to cast, dump the melee and fighter splash go pure Cleric and all into the DD and RS trees. Go human for the extra feat.

If you want to fight, go either human or H-Orc. Dump the wisdom (making sure you can reach 19 with gear). Boost the Cha a bit maybe. Go all into the WP and RS lines.

firemedium_jt
10-29-2013, 02:50 PM
Thanks for the info. Some tough choices.

What is the difference between the awesome melee and the marginal melee? If your melee DCs are going to suck for stunning blow anyway. I have given up on decent melee in EE. With moderate saves and low PRR we probably need to swap EDs for survivabilty.

I am missing the SP from DD. And with the low wisdom not at least breaking 2000 SP on my HOrc is hard to look at. Any gear help here? I use Wizwar for SP. What is your spell point total on your Wisdom dump multiclassed Cleric's?

I am just thinking with my Human Generalist he needs more offensive casting in a healing role. No matter how good your melee is you are still a Cleric, and need to hang back and let the melee's do there thing. Why not have some cheap SLAs that you can offensive cast without draining too much SP. I like the spell power and sp too.

The HOrc CLR17/WIZ1/FTR2 has dumped DD, but I am not sure I can do it on the Human.

Well you guys lowered my expectations. Will anyone notice my gimp melee human as long as he heals? lol My melee critical are about 3500, but not 4500. Maybe more so with all this self healing running around?

Panzermeyer
10-29-2013, 03:16 PM
Thanks for the info. Some tough choices.

What is the difference between the awesome melee and the marginal melee? If your melee DCs are going to suck for stunning blow anyway. I have given up on decent melee in EE. With moderate saves and low PRR we probably need to swap EDs for survivabilty.

I am missing the SP from DD. And with the low wisdom not at least breaking 2000 SP on my HOrc is hard to look at. Any gear help here? I use Wizwar for SP. What is your spell point total on your Wisdom dump multiclassed Cleric's?

I am just thinking with my Human Generalist he needs more offensive casting in a healing role. No matter how good your melee is you are still a Cleric, and need to hang back and let the melee's do there thing. Why not have some cheap SLAs that you can offensive cast without draining too much SP. I like the spell power and sp too.

The HOrc CLR17/WIZ1/FTR2 has dumped DD, but I am not sure I can do it on the Human.

Well you guys lowered my expectations. Will anyone notice my gimp melee human as long as he heals? lol My melee critical are about 3500, but not 4500. Maybe more so with all this self healing running around?

Human Generalist Cleric? You can definitely be an effective Healer/Caster. Spread the love around in both RS and DD.

Do you have a GS Con Op item for your HOrc? Being in melee you will be taking aggro so you should get SP back from that. You can get a +250 SP item now a days, not sure off the top of head what the Wizwar is providing. There are other things you can get that will lessen your SP cost, but the question will be will you be able to slot a better melee type item in that slot.

I would not expect you to hit as hard as a fighter. Cause you are a Cleric. But the cool thing about that is though you will take a bit longer to beat stuff down, you don't require any baby sitting, and you may likely be one of the last ones standing to pick up everyone soul stone. =)

3500 crits is definitely respectable.

axel15810
10-29-2013, 03:50 PM
Thanks for the info. Some tough choices.

What is the difference between the awesome melee and the marginal melee? If your melee DCs are going to suck for stunning blow anyway. I have given up on decent melee in EE. With moderate saves and low PRR we probably need to swap EDs for survivabilty.

I am missing the SP from DD. And with the low wisdom not at least breaking 2000 SP on my HOrc is hard to look at. Any gear help here? I use Wizwar for SP. What is your spell point total on your Wisdom dump multiclassed Cleric's?

I am just thinking with my Human Generalist he needs more offensive casting in a healing role. No matter how good your melee is you are still a Cleric, and need to hang back and let the melee's do there thing. Why not have some cheap SLAs that you can offensive cast without draining too much SP. I like the spell power and sp too.

The HOrc CLR17/WIZ1/FTR2 has dumped DD, but I am not sure I can do it on the Human.

Well you guys lowered my expectations. Will anyone notice my gimp melee human as long as he heals? lol My melee critical are about 3500, but not 4500. Maybe more so with all this self healing running around?


Thanks for the info. Some tough choices.

What is the difference between the awesome melee and the marginal melee? If your melee DCs are going to suck for stunning blow anyway. I have given up on decent melee in EE. With moderate saves and low PRR we probably need to swap EDs for survivabilty.

I am missing the SP from DD. And with the low wisdom not at least breaking 2000 SP on my HOrc is hard to look at. Any gear help here? I use Wizwar for SP. What is your spell point total on your Wisdom dump multiclassed Cleric's?

I am just thinking with my Human Generalist he needs more offensive casting in a healing role. No matter how good your melee is you are still a Cleric, and need to hang back and let the melee's do there thing. Why not have some cheap SLAs that you can offensive cast without draining too much SP. I like the spell power and sp too.

The HOrc CLR17/WIZ1/FTR2 has dumped DD, but I am not sure I can do it on the Human.

Well you guys lowered my expectations. Will anyone notice my gimp melee human as long as he heals? lol My melee critical are about 3500, but not 4500. Maybe more so with all this self healing running around?

Epic Destinies and gear make the biggest difference in getting good melee from a cleric.

Honestly, my biggest concern for the 17 cleric / 2 fighter / 1 wizard build is it's overall EE ability because the saves are garbage...which is why I'm seriously considering a human splashing 2 pally and 1 fighter.

Personally, I don't quite know how my hhorc 17c/2f/1w will fare once it's fully geared...I may end up TRing or LRing to get 2 pally levels and/or human if I decide the boost to survivability is absolutely needed for EE. Hopefully some better gear for saves and PRR, and incorporeality and a bunch of displacement clickies will be sufficient for EE...but I've yet to determine that. I'm personally not ever going to swap destinies in order to play healbot in EE...because if so what's the point of building a melee cleric in the first place? I don't run much EE at the moment, but I want to get more into it soon. From the few EEs I've run recently I have died quite a few times because of crummy saves...getting commanded, tripped or held in EE often = dead.

As for SP do you have a Torc or greensteel con op item? GS SP item? These, especially Torc, all help immensively with SP. Are you utilizing your aura/bursts and healing strikes if you have them? You using scrolls when possible to save sp? My horc cleric has a laughable 1200 or so SP at lvl 21 without his GS SP item...around 1400 with it. but I find it doesn't matter in EH or EN. I barely touch it at those levels except for emergency heals. 99% of healing is done through aura and bursts. My SP is used for buffing and to throw out energy drains for the most part. Blade barrier when soloing or when up against large numbers of mobs.

EE is a different story. Aura and bursts aren't enough. The smaller SP pool makes EE tougher to deal with for melee clerics sure, but not impossible. I've been using heal scrolls constantly and I'm always trying save my SP for quicken heals in tough situations...it's doable.

As for SLAs ive nothing new to add to what has already been posted. I know you want to do it but it's just not going to work unless you specialize in DCs. Everything is going to make their saves if you don't specialize in DCs. You cant have everything in a cleric build unfortunately, you have to pick and choose. If you really want to cast build a casting cleric. Don't run a generalist...I've tried that before and it was a disaster. Both my melee and casting were subpar. Just not enough feats/gear slots to go around...it was a trainwreck of awfulness. Pick a street.

firemedium_jt
10-29-2013, 05:45 PM
Epic Destinies and gear make the biggest difference in getting good melee from a cleric.

Honestly, my biggest concern for the 17 cleric / 2 fighter / 1 wizard build is it's overall EE ability because the saves are garbage...which is why I'm seriously considering a human splashing 2 pally and 1 fighter.

Personally, I don't quite know how my hhorc 17c/2f/1w will fare once it's fully geared...I may end up TRing or LRing to get 2 pally levels and/or human if I decide the boost to survivability is absolutely needed for EE. Hopefully some better gear for saves and PRR, and incorporeality and a bunch of displacement clickies will be sufficient for EE...but I've yet to determine that. I'm personally not ever going to swap destinies in order to play healbot in EE...because if so what's the point of building a melee cleric in the first place? I don't run much EE at the moment, but I want to get more into it soon. From the few EEs I've run recently I have died quite a few times because of crummy saves...getting commanded, tripped or held in EE often = dead.

As for SP do you have a Torc or greensteel con op item? GS SP item? These, especially Torc, all help immensively with SP. Are you utilizing your aura/bursts and healing strikes if you have them? You using scrolls when possible to save sp? My horc cleric has a laughable 1200 or so SP at lvl 21 without his GS SP item...around 1400 with it. but I find it doesn't matter in EH or EN. I barely touch it at those levels except for emergency heals. 99% of healing is done through aura and bursts. My SP is used for buffing and to throw out energy drains for the most part. Blade barrier when soloing or when up against large numbers of mobs.

EE is a different story. Aura and bursts aren't enough. The smaller SP pool makes EE tougher to deal with for melee clerics sure, but not impossible. I've been using heal scrolls constantly and I'm always trying save my SP for quicken heals in tough situations...it's doable.

As for SLAs ive nothing new to add to what has already been posted. I know you want to do it but it's just not going to work unless you specialize in DCs. Everything is going to make their saves if you don't specialize in DCs. You cant have everything in a cleric build unfortunately, you have to pick and choose. If you really want to cast build a casting cleric. Don't run a generalist...I've tried that before and it was a disaster. Both my melee and casting were subpar. Just not enough feats/gear slots to go around...it was a trainwreck of awfulness. Pick a street.

Yeah. It is why I went null with the SLAs on my human. The light is more damage, but the blindness can be saved against. He shoots his little necrotic ray with no metas just to get the guaranteed negative lvl. Maybe tries enervation to see how it does. It beats just hanging back and just healing cause my reflex save can't handle this certain content in the quest.

I am trying out Stunning blow on my Horcwith STR40-50. Finally used the free feat exchange on him. Trolls have good fortitude. I am already disappointed, so I guess I have to be picky with it.

firemedium_jt
10-29-2013, 09:30 PM
Human Generalist Cleric? You can definitely be an effective Healer/Caster. Spread the love around in both RS and DD.

Do you have a GS Con Op item for your HOrc? Being in melee you will be taking aggro so you should get SP back from that. You can get a +250 SP item now a days, not sure off the top of head what the Wizwar is providing. There are other things you can get that will lessen your SP cost, but the question will be will you be able to slot a better melee type item in that slot.

I would not expect you to hit as hard as a fighter. Cause you are a Cleric. But the cool thing about that is though you will take a bit longer to beat stuff down, you don't require any baby sitting, and you may likely be one of the last ones standing to pick up everyone soul stone. =)

3500 crits is definitely respectable.

That is my estimation of my max. I did about 3200 plus + + + + + that you don't have time to add or look up on the combat data, but did not have all my clicks going. It was a critical adrenaline momentum swing with overwhelming critical I think. The mechanics are so intense in combat with all the +++++ going off is hard to track.

Any special way you guys keep track of the combat numbers, so I can get a better estimation?

My average critical is about 1500 with + + + + + with Adrenaline and Momentum Swing, but again I usually do not have every buff going. I might be raged, but not hasted. Inflame, but no Divine Favor. This buff is working but this other one just timed out it seems to be the norm. My glancing blow goes off. I move and it doesn't.

Maybe it was Sense Weakness kicking in to a helpless monster?

It was the first time I saw over 3000 damage so far. More to follow which should be fun to look at and try to keep track of. FOTW is kewl.

i just capped FOTW on the Human. I am still trying to figure out how to get my fury up for Unbridled Fury Epic Moment. Maybe i did and did not realize, but it always seems to be zero. How well does that work for you guys?

End boss in Jungle of kyber on EH I think took that 3200-3400 hit. Can it be helpless?



I guess my average critical is 1500-1800 and my perfect critical is around 3500 with all the stars aligned in the DDO universe. How is this??




This was the Human Generalist. The HOrc is just starting FOTW.

More testing and fun to follow with hopefully more big numbers.

Good stuff. Informative so far.

axel15810
10-30-2013, 09:11 AM
That is my estimation of my max. I did about 3200 plus + + + + + that you don't have time to add or look up on the combat data, but did not have all my clicks going. It was a critical adrenaline momentum swing with overwhelming critical I think. The mechanics are so intense in combat with all the +++++ going off is hard to track.

Any special way you guys keep track of the combat numbers, so I can get a better estimation?

My average critical is about 1500 with + + + + + with Adrenaline and Momentum Swing, but again I usually do not have every buff going. I might be raged, but not hasted. Inflame, but no Divine Favor. This buff is working but this other one just timed out it seems to be the norm. My glancing blow goes off. I move and it doesn't.

Maybe it was Sense Weakness kicking in to a helpless monster?

It was the first time I saw over 3000 damage so far. More to follow which should be fun to look at and try to keep track of. FOTW is kewl.

i just capped FOTW on the Human. I am still trying to figure out how to get my fury up for Unbridled Fury Epic Moment. Maybe i did and did not realize, but it always seems to be zero. How well does that work for you guys?

End boss in Jungle of kyber on EH I think took that 3200-3400 hit. Can it be helpless?



I guess my average critical is 1500-1800 and my perfect critical is around 3500 with all the stars aligned in the DDO universe. How is this??




This was the Human Generalist. The HOrc is just starting FOTW.

More testing and fun to follow with hopefully more big numbers.

Good stuff. Informative so far.

My average critical is in the 2000-2500 range. Every so often I see a 4500 damage critical. That is with momtentum swing, fully buffed, probably against a helpless mob. Maybe my maximum crit is higher because my toon is a Horc so I have an extra 20% to helpless enemies w/ the brutality enhancement plus the Horc THF enhancements. I'd think that human damage boost would make up for this when it is active but I'm not sure how the math works there.

Your Fury charges everytime to roll a 20 and confirm it. You said you don't see it charging it all? You sure you selected the enhancement in your epic destiny tree? Assuming you always confirm your crits you will on average get 1 fury every 20 swings. So that's 200 swings on average to get the 10 fury needed to use the epic moment. But there's a lot of variance in there, it could easily take anywhere from 100-400 swings. The counter displays in the upper left hand corner of the screen with your buffs and you get a notification above your character every time you gain 1 fury.

Panzermeyer
10-30-2013, 09:33 AM
Any special way you guys keep track of the combat numbers, so I can get a better estimation?

Cannot help you there, I am not one of those hard number crunches =)



i just capped FOTW on the Human. I am still trying to figure out how to get my fury up for Unbridled Fury Epic Moment. Maybe i did and did not realize, but it always seems to be zero. How well does that work for you guys?

Honestly I have tried FOTW Unbridled on a melee and on a arti repeater ranged. First was on the arti. I had no problem regularly getting the Epic Moment. Which surprised me when I was on my melee. I have a very difficult time getting enough crits to get it to go off.

One thing to note about it is, every time you move to a new zone, going through a mini load screen in a quest, it will reset the numbers. That is something I keep track of.

There will be a red outlines man icon in your buffs that has a number on it that tells you were you are at. 10 gives you an Epic moment. If I hit it before I have to zone, whether I really need it in the fight or not I use it, know it is going to go away.


End boss in Jungle of kyber on EH I think took that 3200-3400 hit. Can it be helpless?

Not a as Marut red named boss construct




I guess my average critical is 1500-1800 and my perfect critical is around 3500 with all the stars aligned in the DDO universe. How is this??

Most important question is how is it for you? You having fun with it? Is it working for you in the way you run through content?

Skavenaps
10-30-2013, 09:42 AM
My average critical is in the 2000-2500 range. Every so often I see a 4500 damage critical. That is with momtentum swing, fully buffed, probably against a helpless mob. Maybe my maximum crit is higher because my toon is a Horc so I have an extra 20% to helpless enemies w/ the brutality enhancement plus the Horc THF enhancements. I'd think that human damage boost would make up for this when it is active but I'm not sure how the math works there.

Your Fury charges everytime to roll a 20 and confirm it. You said you don't see it charging it all? You sure you selected the enhancement in your epic destiny tree? Assuming you always confirm your crits you will on average get 1 fury every 20 swings. So that's 200 swings on average to get the 10 fury needed to use the epic moment. But there's a lot of variance in there, it could easily take anywhere from 100-400 swings. The counter displays in the upper left hand corner of the screen with your buffs and you get a notification above your character every time you gain 1 fury.

nvm.

firemedium_jt
10-30-2013, 10:29 PM
My SP is used for buffing and to throw out energy drains for the most part. Blade barrier when soloing or when up against large numbers of mobs.

EE is a different story. Aura and bursts aren't enough. The smaller SP pool makes EE tougher to deal with for melee clerics sure, but not impossible. I've been using heal scrolls constantly and I'm always trying save my SP for quicken heals in tough situations...it's doable.


So you use Energy Drain on your Melee Clerics?
I am using Enervation and Nercotic Ray, but can slot Energy Drain and try it out in EH, but not EE I gather? I have not bothered with out any Spell Penetration, and due to SP cost of it.

axel15810
10-31-2013, 08:47 AM
So you use Energy Drain on your Melee Clerics?
I am using Enervation and Nercotic Ray, but can slot Energy Drain and try it out in EH, but not EE I gather? I have not bothered with out any Spell Penetration, and due to SP cost of it.

Energy Drain is great when SR isn't an issue. Especially in epics...mobs have stupid amounts of hitpoints so if you energy drain them right off the bat you can do many thousands of points of damage.

zwiebelring
10-31-2013, 09:27 AM
I am playing the exact same class split for my Clrpast luife atm. I put STR only to 13 for unlocking PA. Every level up goes into CHA and WIS was 15 at start to have 9th level spells without an item (Mordenkaine's Disjunction in mind). CHA was as high as possible at the start for having good Turn Undead and good Divine Might. I'd dump STR to 14 at start or 13 depending on available tomes.

firemedium_jt
10-31-2013, 04:49 PM
Well on the human I dropped the spells in DD. But took the universal spell power, spell points and the +2 to saves.

As for my negative spells I dropped True Rez and took Energy DRain for my negative fix. Took raise dead again. Important to have two raise spells to stack.

Took human damage boost. My criticals are about 2200 average now. I got my shortcuts to jam Adrenaline, Inflame, and human damage boost on my Naga mouse followed by Momentum swing. With those averages I am guessing my next max critical will be 4500.

Took some Kensi Axe and FTR Haste along with speed item is nice. Originally had these buffs on Leg Dead, but I will prob not stay in that.

Re did some shortcuts and hotkeys, so it is easier to stay buffed and prep for max criticals from Momentum swing 5[W].

With an almost guaranteed planned critical from Adrenaline and one at 5W with momentum swing all the quick buffs worth 30 seconds or less make sense.


I have a shelved Human Pal16 I am going to LR+20 into a pure Cleric to have my caster fun with. Would have been better if he was an Elf for spell pen. It seems easy to get the SF. Do the heroic spell focus and Epic Destiny Spell Focus from Magister or Draconic stack? The plan is for Epic Spell pen feat and one SF feat to get the ED SF if they stack. This will get me my SLA fix for light and dark.

firemedium_jt
11-03-2013, 08:26 AM
The plan is to twist 3,2,1. Then 4,2,1. One was saying going legendary dread and sense weakness with stun tactics might be better dps average. Probably on a barb with high str and stun blow.

My question is. I am going 3,1 initially cause I want to twist in Lay Waste instead of Momentum swing. Not sure if this is the right way to go with a low fate point count. Lay Waste will not be able to reset within a minute. Momentum swing has a good change of reset with both Cleave and GCleave. I can use multiple Momentum Swing with adrenaline 5 second cool down. So wondering if 3,1 twist is worth it or should I go 2,1,1. Just wondering how you guys build up your fate points.

firemedium_jt
11-04-2013, 09:45 AM
Most important question is how is it for you? You having fun with it? Is it working for you in the way you run through content?

So far. And I like the way you think. Also seems the game is moving away from umber DPS to survivability. Thinking I should just twist PRR.

axel15810
11-04-2013, 10:34 AM
The plan is to twist 3,2,1. Then 4,2,1. One was saying going legendary dread and sense weakness with stun tactics might be better dps average. Probably on a barb with high str and stun blow.

My question is. I am going 3,1 initially cause I want to twist in Lay Waste instead of Momentum swing. Not sure if this is the right way to go with a low fate point count. Lay Waste will not be able to reset within a minute. Momentum swing has a good change of reset with both Cleave and GCleave. I can use multiple Momentum Swing with adrenaline 5 second cool down. So wondering if 3,1 twist is worth it or should I go 2,1,1. Just wondering how you guys build up your fate points.

If you have the cleaves I'd go with Momentum Swing instead because the cooldown on Lay Waste is just too long and you won't be reseting it at all without twisting in both. The cleaves reset seem to reset Momentum Swing pretty often.

firemedium_jt
11-04-2013, 11:53 AM
If you have the cleaves I'd go with Momentum Swing instead because the cooldown on Lay Waste is just too long and you won't be reseting it at all without twisting in both. The cleaves reset seem to reset Momentum Swing pretty often.

Yeah thinking the same thing. Should I save up. Keep momentum swing always and get fate points to add Lay Waste eventually or don't bother and take something else more useful? What to twist? Just need some goals.

axel15810
11-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Yeah thinking the same thing. Should I save up. Keep momentum swing always and get fate points to add Lay Waste eventually or don't bother and take something else more useful? What to twist? Just need some goals.

It really just depends on what you what, there's all kinds of viable options to twist in. I am in the process of grinding destinies at the moment, right now I have Momentum Swing from LD and +30 Pos spellpower from angel twisted in. I'm thinking I'll go with Lay Waste as a 3rd twist but I haven't decided if my hotbar can handle it and if the long cooldown makes it worth it. I don't know if these are optimal, but some of the other twists I'm considering are Action Boost Damage from LD, +6 reflex saves from draconic, doublestrike from GMoF and improved power attack from LD.

firemedium_jt
11-04-2013, 10:21 PM
The nice thing about Lay Waste is area effect attack. Adrenaline to multiple targets would be nice and a critical at that. It will be a nice addition to MS. The reset is long, so MS is better even if single target to get your Adrenaline clicked for 5W in a short period of time. Looking forward to it in addition to Momentum Swing I guess. Looks like FOTW with a twist of LD wins cause Master's Blitz requires succeeding on tactical feats that my guy's STR can't really do. I plan on getting slot 1 as Tier for to try LD with sense weakness, but that is a long way off.

Lay Waste: Active Ability: (Cooldown 1 min) Perform an Area of Effect attack with +5[W] damage and +1 critical damage multiplier. On Hit Knocks the target down,.......

firemedium_jt
11-08-2013, 08:59 PM
Melee Cleric Twists of fate point allocation... how to get there. 4/2/1 or other.

I was thinking when out of FOTW I want Sense weakness for my melee all the time.

Ok.

I was thinking eventually going 4/2/1. How to prioritize slots? What to get first.
How to get there.
I am currently 2/1. Thinking on a melee Cleric I want the first slot at 4 ASAP for this. Keeping Endless. Then getting 4/1/1 for reflex saves +6 from Magister Tier 1 Unearthly Reactions.


Other allocations for reasons:
2/1/1 for Momentum Swing all the time in FOTW or not, and keeping Endless Faith for SP and Work in Magister saving throws Tier 1 reflex. Then get my slot 1 up to 4?


Sense weakness seems great to have all the time and get ASAP. Or is my reflex save more important to get twisted up?
What does Sense weakness stack with and what does it not stack with? Helpless is for damage boost? Does it stack with human and other damage boosts? d## damage is all the time?

I am thinking 4/1 for EE. Taking Exalted Angel for sp and twists for reflex and Sense Weakness or Cocoon or Endless Turning. Or is HP more important for EE and take US with a twist of Endless Faith. It is 50 sp per lvl of EA or 250 sp at lvl5. Bout 100 hp from US ED with endless turning, but heck I can get good HP for FOTW too.

I see they got the planner working with U19.




Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

The Epic Generalist Perfbuild
Level 28 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 17 Cleric \ 1 Wizard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 409
Spell Points: 1126
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 6
Will: 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 18 25
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 16 22
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 23

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 0 17
Bluff -1 7
Concentration 6 36
Diplomacy -1 10
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 7
Heal 3 17
Hide -1 7
Intimidate -1 7
Jump 4 15
Listen 3 14
Move Silently -1 7
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 7
Search -1 7
Spellcraft -1 7
Spot 3 14
Swim 5 16
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Divine Emissary of Darkness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Healing Domain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Pacifism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Burst (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Empower Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Bliss (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Bliss (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Altruism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Altruism (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Altruism (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Intense Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Incredible Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Axes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Axes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)

firemedium_jt
11-09-2013, 09:04 AM
At least I just found out that fate points are free to reset.

firemedium_jt
12-21-2013, 08:39 PM
bump

painkiller3
12-22-2013, 09:28 AM
So far. And I like the way you think. Also seems the game is moving away from umber DPS to survivability. Thinking I should just twist PRR.

What did you get from Raider's box? An easy boost to PRR is to get the Planar Focus of Prowess. Combine that with the first upgrade on your CITW weapon gives 15 (stacking) PRR and +4 (stacking) to attack and damage. I prefer the 17/2 pal/1 fighter to this build, but good new enhancement melee cleric advice in both threads

firemedium_jt
12-22-2013, 09:56 AM
Lay Waste is a waste twist.

With Adrenaline and Human Damage boost is not applied to the area of effect attacks. Just the main target gets hit with the nice critical damage.


__________________________


I am thinking I will drop Toughness and Heighten. Take Pal2/FTR1 now that my CHR is not dumped from the +5 Supreme Tome.

Not max STR cause I am a Cleric with garbage DCs.
I can twist LD DCs, but really I need twists for other things like

Endless Faith for mana boost
Cocoon

Momentum Swing
Unearthly reflexes for EE

US for EE
FOTW for Melee
Shiradi Champion for filling in for casting or EA for more light power and mana?

Maybe with the Pal2 I can stay in FOTW for EE. Having the saves to melee. That would be huge I think???