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View Full Version : Bards, the Rodney Dangerfield of DDO



AzB
10-24-2013, 10:25 PM
The other night I was pugging with a pretty good group and after we jumped in the quest and did the initial buffing ritual, the whole party says ty for the deadly.

My bard gave the party spell song vigor, spell song trance, +2 to all their abilities, +4 to damage to the whole party, as well as hage, blur, and good hope/greater heroism.

But everyone gets all excited about deadly. Don't get me wrong, deadly is a fine buff.

I've tried very hard to get my melee bard to be useful in combat as well. While running with a group the other night, I ran right along next to the barb keeping him haged, and even picking him up off the floor a couple times as we were running way out in front of the cleric. At the end, everyone was virtually high fiving the barb for his kill count. It was over 100 and the rest of the folks had kill counts of half that or less. Guess what mine was? 4 less than the barb. Nobody said anything about the bard.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for recognition or admiration or whatever. I'm just pointing out my observations. It's actually pretty hilarious that people's perceptions and stereotypes seem so much stronger than reality. And I figure some of you might understand.

We get no respect...

sirgog
10-24-2013, 10:31 PM
Yep, people have an irrational obsession with Deadly Weapons.

It is almost never worth standing still to hand it out to the whole party - completion is faster if you just zerg ahead without it. Bard songs do as much and don't take 30 seconds to give out groupwide, they take 6. (Unless the content is so difficult that you feel it is worth max buffing before starting; some of the harder EEs fit this category).




The thing about playing a bard is you are often the biggest contributor to a success, but your contributions are subtle.

LeslieWest_GuitarGod
10-24-2013, 10:47 PM
Amen! Yes, you need to know your stuff as a bard, because you will be constantly tested. Whether its someone doubting what you can do, or much more commonly, have no idea what you do, it's your role as a commander of the battlefield to educate and boost others in your group to victory.

Its been fun to build and play my two favorite bards, Mississippee Queen and Genghis Khan, but even more fun to help others build bards that satisfy them. They remain the most fun class in the game for me to play... and I have played them all.

PS: I agree with sirgog, bards are often the biggest contributor.. its not all about solo kills. As for buffing, I buff more depending on the group/quest I'm in. We dont zerg however. Still, Turbine has never coded "Medley" like I've asked years ago which would have saved us bards those valuable minutes that few would be patient enough to wait around for.

PSS OP: 2nd in kills vs the barb? Good job! Yeah, forget about the pug clowns... they have no IDEA what you can do, it has always been the least understood and appreciated class in the game, and always will be :)

My recommendation to bards are the same as they were 7 years ago. If you find a good guild that appreciates your abilities... it's a whole other story!!

Memnir
10-25-2013, 12:20 AM
http://i.imgur.com/0jPLTYo.gif


Love me!

Steevye
10-25-2013, 05:37 AM
This was a lovely post to chuckle with before going to work. It's certainly true, especially in pugs these days...

I like the guild suggestion, that's been what gets me groups more often than anything else and thankfully it's usually fun. If I'm not running guild groups, I will sometimes get invitations to other groups who like bards simply because I'm usually only one of 5-10 epic level bards online when I play. Those groups are usually great too.

Underrated? Yes...and it seems like the devs are bigoted against the class since half the tree is bugged...

Sokól
10-25-2013, 07:08 AM
http://i.imgur.com/0jPLTYo.gif


Love me!

That made me laugh :)

I really enjoy grouping with good bards but it would be a little silly to let them know that every time.

OP just ignore the BS...

Asmodeus451
10-25-2013, 07:21 AM
http://i.imgur.com/0jPLTYo.gif


Love me!

Mem, you've had some good ones, but this is the best yet


*note to self, no more drinking morning coffee while reading forums, in case of spontaneous Memnir*

katz
10-25-2013, 08:05 AM
heh

i have a friend who really likes running wit my main bard. he knows. ^_^ with me in the group he's fearless (and by that i mean he can't be feared). his hits are harder and his crits are bigger... breaking a hard room is a cakewalk with everything standing around drooling on itself and i've yanked him out of the jaws of death a few times... cuz even the best player trips, slips, or fails a save occasionally. AND he gets extra loot and xp, because on top of all that, i do the traps and open locked doors and chests! so yes, i am all that and a bag of chips.



i even saved a FoT recently. ^_^

let me explain. i dunno if i actually saved it from a fail, or if i just saved it from a lot of chaos and some extraneous pot use, but for sure no one was complaining about what i did., and i felt darn good about it! XD i hadn't run FoT in quite a while, so at the start i kinda ended up doing what everyone seems to expect the bard to do... sing a little, buff a little, fight a little, die a little... overall the run was progressing reasonably smoothly... until the guy who volunteered to kite the dragons in the end part died... (with no announced backup) now all of a sudden we have 3 ****ed off dragons sticking their noses into the big battle royale we had going on, and - even given my limited memory and knowledge of how this raid went - i figured that was a BAD THING™... and i didn't even think about it. i ran up and mashed intimidate... and with 59 in the skill, i am very scary for a halfling bard!
for the next VERY LONG few minutes it took the rest of the group to kill whoever it was they needed to kill, i ran for my life with 3 ****ed off dragons hot on my tail. a barb's faster run speed coupled with sprint boost kept me (barely) one step ahead, and the heal scroll in my hand kept me going when they managed to tag me here and there.
i think it was the most exciting raid i've run in quite a while :D

also... Memnir... you crack me up. XD

unbongwah
10-25-2013, 08:18 AM
The thing about playing a bard is you are often the biggest contributor to a success, but your contributions are subtle.
I am reminded of something an old CompSci professor told us: that when we did our jobs right and everything goes smoothly, nobody notices because our work is hidden from view; but if something goes wrong, guess who gets blamed for it? :rolleyes:

Or it's like being a kuroko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuroko) in kabuki; your job is to make everyone else shine, w/out drawing attention to yourself.

voodoogroves
10-25-2013, 08:23 AM
I have (had) two currently. I love bards.

One is a Half Orc w/ a bit of ranger and cleric for Manyshot and Divine Might. He's a cleaving death machine and in most PUGs, can put out some serious hurt. He's built totally like a barbarian, just happens to sing inspire courage and bring his own hage and some hjeals. I usually don't pass a ton of buffs unless people ask - frankly blur and GH are pretty common self-buffs even in pugs - but I'll toss as needed. Otherwise, he's swinging.

The other *was* a TWF bard. Just a bit less focus on pure melee and a bit more focus on party buffs - spellsong, vigor, the regen song, you name it. Too long to sing them all, and too slow getting to the killing. Playing her was fun - but slower than the other. And, importantly, even though she would bring more to a weak group - to a strong group for most content waiting for more than one song was the less-efficient option.



The more I think on it, the more I think bards need to have fewer "long" buff songs, and for all their other abilities to enhance that song or be quick-cast. SPEED UP THE BUFF CYCLE.

- Enhance the base Spellsong Trance to automatically include Spellsong Vigor, Song of Arcane Power if you have taken those ("Your Spellsong Trance now has a returns SP", etc.)
- Tie Ironskin Chaint and Inspire Recklessness to automatically be cast when you use Song of Heroism.
- Take a hard look at Sustaining Song and maybe tie it to Inspire Greatness.

It's ok for special-use songs to remain separate ... same with "attack" songs like Fascinate, Capering (though this needs to be fast-cast again), Entrallment, etc.

Anyway, this would put all bards singing 2 core songs (Courage, Greatness) and one PRE-song (Spellsong, Song of Heroism).

This may use less songs but give each PRE an active use-song-fast ability ... once Capering is fixed I'm sure many virt-built SS can burn through their songs that way. WC needs more help than that, but adding in one fast-song or a spend-a-song-for-this-strike wouldn't be bad (like the Frozen Fury re-worked to cost a song, but with a save DC of 10+ 1/2 or full bard level + CHA).

Chai
10-25-2013, 11:18 AM
No one needs to wait for songs, and this is a huge advantage. I can buff the party while running forward, and while we are zerging there are points where they are all gathered up beating on the same mobs, is when they get their haste and rages, and the casters, including myself get our mana song. None of this requires standing there individually casting buffs for any amount of time.

Steevye
10-25-2013, 11:48 AM
No one needs to wait for songs, and this is a huge advantage. I can buff the party while running forward, and while we are zerging there are points where they are all gathered up beating on the same mobs, is when they get their haste and rages, and the casters, including myself get our mana song. None of this requires standing there individually casting buffs for any amount of time.

^ This

I have always played my bard this way, as I too generally dislike sitting around wasting earlier buff time for new buffs stacking on top of each other. This is the major advantage this class has, imho. Same thing with solo play, I can run into many quests buffing before I even hit the first mob. The only time people usually gather is for end fights, which makes sense (to me).

voodoogroves
10-25-2013, 07:03 PM
No one needs to wait for songs, and this is a huge advantage. I can buff the party while running forward, and while we are zerging there are points where they are all gathered up beating on the same mobs, is when they get their haste and rages, and the casters, including myself get our mana song. None of this requires standing there individually casting buffs for any amount of time.

And, during those million songs that you can absolutely do while running, the bard isn't swinging.

kryscendo
10-25-2013, 07:53 PM
the thing about playing a bard is you are often the biggest contributor to a success, but your contributions are subtle.

so true!!!!!!