Dark Monk - Noob

[Kelethar]

Hello! I recently started playing DDO and I've been playing a Dark Monk for the past 2 weeks. I finally hit level 20 and I wanted to get some information from anyone who is knowledgeable in this field. I play with a group that is very experienced in this game but no one seems to know Dark Monk specifics.

I provided a character planner. For some reason I couldn't get it to show my proper stats. But I got it as close as I could.
STR 21
DEX 17
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 19
CHA 6

Is what I currently have, naked and without stances.

Any information provided would be very helpful. Also, if anyone knows exactly which attacks I should be using. As of right now I'm cycling between Sunder and trip, building up enough Ki for Touch of death and Shadow Double. I use Air stance and when needed use Stunning fist and Quivering Palm.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Evilpaimai
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Monk)
Hit Points: 304
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 19
Will: 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 21
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 10 17
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 5 34
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 5 31
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -2
Heal 0 3
Hide 2 2
Intimidate -2 -2
Jump 8 24
Listen 0 3
Move Silently 2 2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 1
Spellcraft -1 -1
Spot 1 8
Swim n/a n/a
Tumble 3 9
Use Magic Device -2 -2

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 4 (Monk)


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Stout (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Stout (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Stout (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Tactics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Tactics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Tactics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Runes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Runes (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Dwarf - Dwarven Runes (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Mystic Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Mystic Training (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Mystic Training (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Clever Monkey (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Contemplation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Contemplation (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Contemplation (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Poisoned Darts (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Diversion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Master (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Impending Doom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Poison Exploit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Subtlety (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Subtlety (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Subtlety (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Poisoned Soul (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wave of Despair (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Touch of Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Crippling Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Double (Rank 1)




Edit:

Also the reason I started putting in so much Wisdom, was because my attacks that I currently use, feel like they never landed. When I started adding more wisdom, I started making my sunder and trips land.

As far as gear goes, I am currently using Vampiric Stonedust wraps, 3 sun soul set, spectral gloves and a bunch of other random stuff with Accuracy, Deadly and Wisdom.

[TeacherSyn]

Hey there, and welcome to DDO!

Some ideas:


You actually haven't enough WIS. WIS defines the DCs of almost all Monk finishers and tactical strikes. You already discovered greater success there with more WIS, so look to getting 34-36 minimum (with items) there by level 20. Others will say to max this, and I can't fully disagree.
On using Henshin Mystic abilities: Not a bad idea for more to DCs and passive ki regeneration.
Take Stunning Fist earlier--as in your first or second level.
You could possibly back down on your STR to add to DEX as Ninjas gain bonuses there, and will add in more Reflex saves that can mean getting rid of the Lightning Reflex feat.
The Ninja Spy tree really encourages a few stealth tactics to avoid being immediately hit and seize the advantage on hitting something. Not that you can play a highly visible ninja as your skills reflect, but damage is secondary to survival. You can't fight when dead. Still, use Shadow Veil always with high Dodge, a Blur item for some good miss chance while fighting it out. I'd more a few points from Balance to Hide and Move Silently for full advantage of the class ability.
Wind Stance is the weakest defensively of all the stances in favor of faster attacks but not powerful ones. Consider Ocean Stance for natural Dodge and universal saves and DC increases, or Fire for more ki for your attacks and STR, and Earth for greatest overall defense and critical hit chances.

[Stoner81]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Kel's Build
Level 28 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Monk \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 394
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 15
Will: 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 15 17
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 15 24
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28)
Balance 6 26 38
Bluff -2 -2 6
Concentration 6 26 34
Diplomacy -2 -2 6
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -2 6
Heal 2 7 15
Hide 2 3 11
Intimidate -2 -2 6
Jump 6 13 21
Listen 2 7 15
Move Silently 2 3 11
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 0 8
Search -1 0 10
Spellcraft -1 0 8
Spot 2 30 38
Swim 2 3 11
Tumble n/a 5 13
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stability
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stonecutting
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Orc and Goblin Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Poison Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) The Way of Air
Feat: (Automatic) The Way of Fire
Feat: (Automatic) The Way of Earth
Feat: (Automatic) The Way of Water
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Magic
Feat: (Automatic) Slow Fall


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Purity of Body


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Adept of Forms


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Wholeness of Body


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Evasion


Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Curse of the Void
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Lawful
Feat: (Automatic) Moment of Clarity


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Diamond Body


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Abundant Step
Feat: (Automatic) Master of Forms (ALL)


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Diamond Soul


Level 14 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)


Level 15 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Quivering Palm


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Adamantine


Level 17 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Timeless Body


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Grandmaster of Forms


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Empty Body


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Perfect Self
Feat: (Automatic) Shining Star


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Martial Arts
Feat: (Automatic) Epic: Epic Skills


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Vorpal Strikes


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Tactician




I would have sent you this as a PM but the forums won't allow that amount of characters :( anyway moving on...

You should be able to do a free Lesser Reincarnation (LR) so you would go back to level 1 and re-select all your stats, feats and enhancements all the way back to where you are now. There are a few +2 tomes been added but they should be fairly easy to get from the Auction House and I would recommend getting them before you do the LR. The main problem is that Monks need 4 of the main stats to be effective (STR, DEX, CON and WIS) and as a result it is generally better to only build a Monk once you have 32pt builds open but with a bit of luck this build should work pretty well for you :)

As you can see you have a lot more Wisdom so your Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm should land a lot more, use Improved Sunder a lot because even if it doesn't land it still reduces the mosters saves so will make things easier to land too :) and the Sunder effect stacks up to 5 times.

You will also have the full Two Weapon Fighting line which will improve your damage output by quite a bit due to more offhand procs, I am no expert with Monks but I think this would work pretty well and have most of the basics covered.

Gear wise I would recommend to look at the following:

Eyes : Deadly of Accuracy (whatever you can find for the level you are at).
Gloves : PDK Gloves (commendation turn in) (30% heal amp is a must have these days).
Helmet : PDK Helmet (commendation turn in).
Body : Spider-spun Caparison w/ Insightful +3 WIS.

Stoner81.

[Munkenmo]

Wind Stance is the weakest defensively of all the stances in favor of faster attacks but not powerful ones. Consider Ocean Stance for natural Dodge and universal saves and DC increases, or Fire for more ki for your attacks and STR, and Earth for greatest overall defense and critical hit chances.



No it's not, the doublestrike makes it incredibly valid. Fire stance especially with the wisdom penalty is the weakest.

Earth > water > wind > fire.

[Munkenmo]

Stoner81's build is better than yours, and I'd advise you follow that as a template if you're planning on LR'ing : A few changes I'd make

1. At level 18, you selected master of forms, you already got it as a free monk bonus feat at level 12.
- I'd pick up mobility, I highly doubt as a newer player you've capped your dodge yet, so more damage mitigation is always nice.

2. Drop the monk bonus feat on toughness, your enhancements don't require it as a feat choice anymore, I assume you're probably getting close to 700+ hp now, 30hp from toughness is hardly worth a feat slot imo.
- I'd pick up deflect arrows instead, *I play in EE, this feat is less useful the easier content gets. but I'd assume as a newer player complete damage avoidance is good.

3. Your epic feat choices.
- I'd pick up vorpal strikes then improved martial arts. In the long run it'll make no difference, but again as a newer player I assume you're running EN or EH, some trash you'll be fighting have less than 1k hp from the get go. Instakilling is more fun than slightly more dps.

4. Blinding speed.
- You say you're running in windstance, if that's true, either drop blinding speed, or make the switch to earth stance. (I'd advise getting blinding speed and start using earth stance)

[TeacherSyn]

No it's not, the doublestrike makes it incredibly valid. Fire stance especially with the wisdom penalty is the weakest.

Earth > water > wind > fire.

Doublestrike works excellently, yes. That's what Syncletica is. However, your CON is lower, and so you are more potentially vulnerable. Same is true for Ninja Spies that gain DEX to damage advantages in Wind Stance.

Likewise, Fire isn't the necessarily the weakest since STR determines damage for any Monk outside of a Ninja Spy with piercing/slashing weapons or Weapon Finesse. If you are calculating in WIS for the DCs to keep something in place to kill it faster, then a lower WIS from Fire can be a detriment but hardly a short-term disadvantage.

My Henshin Mystic runs in Fire Stance a great deal since it's a massive ki generator and she's weaponizing her ki every moment she gets. Since a quarterstaff is a STR weapon, the extra STR of Fire Stance makes it quite advantageous to use in some fights. WIS is important for a Mystic's ki but they aren't stun-bots and therefore get less advantage from Monk DC attacks--they're more likely to use the traditional melee attacks like Improved Sunder. STR is more their magic stat.

How you play determines the success of any build, of course. Shintao favors Earth Stance too much, but nowandays, you have a better potential of making any stance work for a specific advantage, especially now that you get full Grandmaster powers on all stances at level 18.

[Munkenmo]

However, your CON is lower, and so you are more potentially vulnerable. Same is true for Ninja Spies that gain DEX to damage advantages in Wind Stance.

Likewise, Fire isn't the necessarily the weakest since STR determines damage for any Monk outside of a Ninja Spy with piercing/slashing weapons or Weapon Finesse. If you are calculating in WIS for the DCs to keep something in place to kill it faster, then a lower WIS from Fire can be a detriment but hardly a short-term disadvantage.

but nowandays, you have a better potential of making any stance work for a specific advantage, especially now that you get full Grandmaster powers on all stances at level 18.

Personally I almost always only run in earth stance since it's the all round offensive / defensive package.

That said, I struggle to think how anyone can assume the +4 str from fire stance (+2 to hit / damage) can compete with 10% doublestrike from wind. In this case -2 con will matter little to a dwarf, and most other players now that we can hit 800+hp.

Ki is the only reason I swap to fire anymore, offensively I think it's rather pointless.

It is just all opinion though, all of the stances are good enough that a good player can make them work.

[Stoner81]

1. At level 18, you selected master of forms, you already got it as a free monk bonus feat at level 12.
- I'd pick up mobility, I highly doubt as a newer player you've capped your dodge yet, so more damage mitigation is always nice.

Sorry I didn't realise that, this is the first time I have built a Monk to level 20 or beyond thanks for pointing out this error. I have corrected it in the build above and changed it to Mobility.

Stoner81.

[Lonnbeimnech]

No it's not, the doublestrike makes it incredibly valid. Fire stance especially with the wisdom penalty is the weakest.

Earth > water > wind > fire.

Fire stance is awesome between levels (whenever you pick up touch of death) and about 20. That extra 500 damage can easily one shot mobs in that level range, especially if stunned and you land an off hand. And you get so much ki in fire that you can use it every 15 seconds and still keep stunning fist and shadow fade in rotation.

But other than that level range, you are correct.

[Stoner81]

Another option would be to get a Greater Heart of Wood because then you could convert your toon from a 28pt build to a 32pt build which would help a lot and you would get to re-pick everything anyway :)

EDIT - Greater Hearts of Wood have been removed from the game and now the Lesser hearts give the same effect.

Stoner81.