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AtomicMew
10-19-2013, 04:54 AM
http://i.imgur.com/AHRzN2bl.jpg (http://imgur.com/AHRzN2b)

http://i.imgur.com/bAJnbhrl.jpg (http://imgur.com/bAJnbhr)

Wayfinder Marketplace 1! We need to get some tents out here!

sdrocky
10-19-2013, 05:01 AM
Most ive ever seen in one place on here.

Fin

CoasterHops
10-19-2013, 05:35 AM
Isn't that everyone on the Wayfinder server?

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 06:14 AM
http://s14.directupload.net/images/131019/xr5mjpa2.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

Wi-der-stand! Wi-der-stand!

Occupy Stormreach. Fight back!

MrRoboto
10-19-2013, 06:21 AM
Peasants making a lot noise. Release the hounds.

RedOrm
10-19-2013, 06:25 AM
sitting there too, made a toon for the occasion. Hope Turbine takes notice....

Greetz,
Red Orm

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 06:43 AM
still growing

http://s7.directupload.net/images/131019/zi6pza7e.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

Nestroy
10-19-2013, 06:44 AM
And still we grow.

Please, for all players from other servers, roll up a toon on Wayfinder and join us there. We need your assistance!

Deathdefy
10-19-2013, 06:48 AM
And people say DDO doesn't have cross-server events.

MrRoboto
10-19-2013, 06:51 AM
Protest over a game, lol.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 07:01 AM
Protest over a game, lol.

Visible protest against upcoming changes in a game we love to play. Not lol but resistance.

Every player should log on Wayfinder, create a toon and get to the Marketplace and the Bridge of Resistance there. We have to show that we disagree with the planned TR changes.

hucka
10-19-2013, 07:01 AM
you have your daily roll available

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 07:03 AM
I know. But actually there are more important things than daily dice.

Nestroy
10-19-2013, 07:13 AM
There is a second instance of The Marketplace! This is the first time on Wayfinder ever!

Keep on the good work, go occupy!

Ungood
10-19-2013, 07:14 AM
LOL, there are 2 markets on Wayfinder now.

katz
10-19-2013, 07:19 AM
http://i.imgur.com/MQHa3mF.jpg

Flavilandile
10-19-2013, 07:21 AM
LOL, there are 2 markets on Wayfinder now.

It's easy to spawn a second instance if you're a large enough guild... we used to be able to do that on Keeper when we made Guild Events. Second instance spawned just for us everywhere we went. ( Two raid parties )

I suspect the instance spawn is somewhere around 50/75 people in the instance.

TDarkchylde
10-19-2013, 07:31 AM
LOL, there are 2 markets on Wayfinder now.

Shall we go for three?

2pleasegimmie
10-19-2013, 07:50 AM
Protest over a game, lol.

Most thought constructs - like "justice", "morality", etc all have just as much reality and value as protesting for this cause does.

One reason the world is in such a poor state is thanks to attitudes like yours.

MrRoboto
10-19-2013, 08:12 AM
You guys had your fun, time to go home.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 08:27 AM
You guys had your fun, time to go home.

Nope. Time to create a toon on Wayfinder and join the protest.

Dandonk
10-19-2013, 08:48 AM
Nope. Time to create a toon on Wayfinder and join the protest.

Done.

MrRoboto
10-19-2013, 09:16 AM
If you think standing in wayfinder is going to make a difference, time to get real.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 09:33 AM
If you think standing in wayfinder is going to make a difference, time to get real.

Don't underestimate the impact of a visual existing symbol of resistance. It already is a protest statement, though there could be much more people to join. On the other side it's about 10:30am on a Saturday in Boston, there's probably no one awaken already to recognize the difference we make. Time to get on Wayfinder and join the event.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 10:04 AM
The sit-in is still going on.

http://s7.directupload.net/images/131019/zeezuakx.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

You're welcome to join us on Wayfinder on the Bridge of Resistance :)

Cetus
10-19-2013, 10:16 AM
I'd love to spawn a CR80 Lord of Blades on that bridge right now...

you know, the kind that was running around in eveningstar on lamaland not too long ago?

Flavilandile
10-19-2013, 10:26 AM
Oh I saw myself. :D

Memnir
10-19-2013, 10:32 AM
One day longer, One day stronger!



http://i.imgur.com/SQSnxq8.jpg



Memnir the Bear will be joining the protest whenever I'm able. Probably AFK - but I'll be there.
****, I don't even like to TR myself - and I can see that this change is one of the worst bad policy in a long line of bad policies.

MrRoboto
10-19-2013, 10:44 AM
its time to shut this silly thread down.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 10:47 AM
its time to shut this silly thread down.

No.


Also, just rolled a new toon and joined the protest. Will likely be playing Neverwinter - or any other game really - until something changes in this issue.

Arianka
10-19-2013, 10:48 AM
Smokey the Protest Bear!!!


What???

Dandonk
10-19-2013, 10:53 AM
Ooh, my Protesting was there :)

SirValentine
10-19-2013, 10:53 AM
We have to show that we disagree with the planned REDACTED changes.


Shh! Protest without saying such things explicitly, or this thread will get removed from General Discussion like all the other protests and complaints about the unmentioned horrible screw-your-player-base idea.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 11:01 AM
Shh! Protest without saying such things explicitly, or this thread will get removed from General Discussion like all the other protests and complaints about the unmentioned horrible screw-your-player-base idea.

And moved to a forum only VIPs have access to, but no f2p players :/

This protest is an ongoing live event and thence interesting for all players and Turbines.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 11:03 AM
Newsflash: Update Twenty Killed Me guild is now available and recruiting, guild leader Occupytr. Come join!

IronClan
10-19-2013, 11:09 AM
If you think standing in wayfinder is going to make a difference, time to get real.

I'd just like to say thanks for posting this: it inspired me to create a toon on wayfinder, because we should all just shut down and give up breathing before letting smugness and ignorance deter us from something worth doing, even when its "just a game".

MrRoboto
10-19-2013, 11:13 AM
One day longer, One day stronger!



http://i.imgur.com/SQSnxq8.jpg



Memnir the Bear will be joining the protest whenever I'm able. Probably AFK - but I'll be there.
****, I don't even like to TR myself - and I can see that this change is one of the worst bad policy in a long line of bad policies.

Yikes, look at all the hippy protesters.

Flavilandile
10-19-2013, 11:14 AM
And moved to a forum only VIPs have access to, but no f2p players :/

This protest is an ongoing live event and thence interesting for all players and Turbines.

Actually I went the whole way and checked if a F2P account could access... ( I used my nice mule account for that, F2P, not even premium ).

He can't see them... Actually it's the ONLY SUB-FORUM THERE that a F2P cannot see. As a F2P can see all the other L-Space Subforums.

Arnez
10-19-2013, 11:16 AM
Is there any way someone can post a TLDR version of why you guys are protesting?

I read the notes, perhaps I don't understand why the changes are bad?

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 11:20 AM
Is there any way someone can post a TLDR version of why you guys are protesting?

I read the notes, perhaps I don't understand why the changes are bad?

It takes about 10~30 epic quests to get enough tokens to earn a TR heart at the moment.

After the change, it will take about 50-60 complete sagas to earn one, or 750~1000 epic quests. You will also be unable to use the tokens you may have stocked up to buy the hearts any longer.


He can't see them... Actually it's the ONLY SUB-FORUM THERE that a F2P cannot see. As a F2P can see all the other L-Space Subforums.

Most definitely NOT an accident.

Memnir
10-19-2013, 11:24 AM
Yikes, look at all the hippy protesters.
And here you are protesting the protest.
Irony is good for the diet. :)

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 11:30 AM
If I wasn't currently suspended, I would join you on that bridge and make sure everyone has water breathing, continuously, as long as I could keep it up. It would be the bubble-heads of protest on the bridge of resistance. Unfortunatly I will have to join you only in spirit for now.

MrRoboto
10-19-2013, 11:40 AM
And here you are protesting the protest.
Irony is good for the diet. :)

Not protesting, just watching the show.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 11:40 AM
frontwards

http://s7.directupload.net/images/131019/zeezuakx.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

backwards

http://s14.directupload.net/images/131019/ztwpyavz.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

Come, join us and participate at the sit-in on Wayfinder, Marketplace, Bridge of Resistance!

Flavilandile
10-19-2013, 11:44 AM
Most definitely NOT an accident.

Actually it might be another Chimpanzee Trick from the Forum Downgrade : https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/428352-Thread-locations?p=5138728&viewfull=1#post5138728

Edit : actually it was another Chimpanzee Trick from the Forum Downgrade. It has been fixed, see the above link.

enochiancub
10-19-2013, 11:46 AM
So...what are you people even protesting?

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 11:56 AM
So...what are you people even protesting?

Best way'd be to log on Wayfinder, to enter the Marketplace and ask us. Or check the Lamannia Discussion subforum to get an idea of what this sit-in is about.

enochiancub
10-19-2013, 11:58 AM
Best way'd be to log on Wayfinder, to enter the Marketplace and ask us. Or check the Lamannia Discussion subforum to get an idea of what this sit-in is about.

Ah, should have known it was about that ridiculousness. You all have a good time.

Drwaz99
10-19-2013, 11:58 AM
They will probably spin it into saying that due to the changes, there has never been as many logins as there are now!

Vellrad
10-19-2013, 12:01 PM
http://s14.directupload.net/images/131019/xr5mjpa2.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

Wi-der-stand! Wi-der-stand!

Occupy Stormreach. Fight back!

Fake.
Noone could lvl up epic lvls on wayfinder.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 12:06 PM
It takes about 10~30 epic quests to get enough tokens to earn a TR heart at the moment.

After the change, it will take about 50-60 complete sagas to earn one, or 750~1000 epic quests. You will also be unable to use the tokens you may have stocked up to buy the hearts any longer.


Seriously? This is what has you up in arms? Turbine slowing down the TR train? Seriously?

I blame the Completionist feat. It should NEVER have said "You win DDO". Some people have no idea what a joke is.

I would like to remind you folks that Turbine makes this game available FOR FREE. They do not have to allow ANY methods of free TR, but they do.

I think labeling it "Occupy" hits the nail on the head. A bunch of jobless freeloading troublemakers who want MORE for their nothing investment.

Timing in the middle of the 2 week ban could not be more suspect.

I suggest locking out ALL purely F2P accounts for 1 week. Invest or GO HOME.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 12:11 PM
Seriously? This is what has you up in arms? Turbine slowing down the TR train? Seriously?

I blame the Completionist feat. It should NEVER have said "You win DDO". Some people have no idea what a joke is.

I would like to remind you folks that Turbine makes this game available FOR FREE. They do not have to allow ANY methods of free TR, but they do.

I think labeling it "Occupy" hits the nail on the head. A bunch of jobless freeloading troublemakers who want MORE for their nothing investment.

Timing in the middle of the 2 week ban could not be more suspect.

I suggest locking out ALL purely F2P accounts for 1 week. Invest or GO HOME.

If you think we have invested nothing, you have no clue at all.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 12:19 PM
Seriously? This is what has you up in arms? Turbine slowing down the TR train? Seriously?

I blame the Completionist feat. It should NEVER have said "You win DDO". Some people have no idea what a joke is.

I would like to remind you folks that Turbine makes this game available FOR FREE. They do not have to allow ANY methods of free TR, but they do.

I think labeling it "Occupy" hits the nail on the head. A bunch of jobless freeloading troublemakers who want MORE for their nothing investment.

Timing in the middle of the 2 week ban could not be more suspect.

I suggest locking out ALL purely F2P accounts for 1 week. Invest or GO HOME.

Honestly? You think this is about F2P? I am making my first post to reply to this. I pay monthly for subscription and enjoy DDO enough to log on every other night to do some quests here and there. TR allows me to keep going on with this game on my own pace while exploring new builds and combinations. And they are making this difficult and almost impossible for us to do it without paying even more money and removing one of the more viable endgame options in this game. Tell me with a straight face that's completely okay and right.

And to be honest, you -- as a customer -- should be realizing the cost and fun ratio is completely screwed for this update.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 12:21 PM
If you think we have invested nothing, you have no clue at all.

If you pay, you have to let the freeloaders have their welfare. (F2P)

This welfare is a burden on resources we could put elsewhere.

TR is not required.

Anyone that wants to TR has already done so many times.

You are going to complete Sagas ANYWAY, because you are going to want to farm the rewards.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 12:24 PM
If you pay, you have to let the freeloaders have their welfare. (F2P)

This welfare is a burden on resources we could put elsewhere.

TR is not required.

Anyone that wants to TR has already done so many times.

You are going to complete Sagas ANYWAY, because you are going to want to farm the rewards.



Well... okay. If that's how you feel that removing other people's enjoyment is okay. Don't worry, I trust I wouldn't be around and DDO won't have anymore of my business if this goes through.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 12:24 PM
Seriously? This is what has you up in arms? Turbine slowing down the TR train? Seriously?

I blame the Completionist feat. It should NEVER have said "You win DDO". Some people have no idea what a joke is.

I would like to remind you folks that Turbine makes this game available FOR FREE. They do not have to allow ANY methods of free TR, but they do.

I think labeling it "Occupy" hits the nail on the head. A bunch of jobless freeloading troublemakers who want MORE for their nothing investment.

Timing in the middle of the 2 week ban could not be more suspect.

I suggest locking out ALL purely F2P accounts for 1 week. Invest or GO HOME.

This game is not really "free to play" in any shape or form, it is "free to pay" at best, and continues to reach for more ways to monetize. I suggest you play a true "free to play" game before you even continue posting this nonsense.

But you're right, Turbine don't "have to" do anything, and can do whatever they want. But then again, so can we, the paying customers. And ultimately, they depend on us more than we depend on them.



If you pay, you have to let the freeloaders have their welfare. (F2P)

This welfare is a burden on resources we could put elsewhere.

TR is not required.

Anyone that wants to TR has already done so many times.

You are going to complete Sagas ANYWAY, because you are going to want to farm the rewards.


This post is wrong on all accounts.

It costs about the same to run a game with several thousand or several hundred thousand.

Therefore, F2P players bring in more than they allegedly "drain", as they make the game more fun for everyone. Nobody will stay long when the game is empty of players.

Playing the game is not required. It may be fun, however.

What about new players who want to TR? Oh right, this game won't have any after U20.

Sagas are only limited to very specific content, so that's a poor assumption. I play every day, and I'm yet to complete a single one. I also don't farm for rewards.


Please stop trolling and go elsewhere.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 12:26 PM
If you pay, you have to let the freeloaders have their welfare. (F2P)

This welfare is a burden on resources we could put elsewhere.

TR is not required.

Anyone that wants to TR has already done so many times.

You are going to complete Sagas ANYWAY, because you are going to want to farm the rewards.



As I said, you have no clue at all.
I have payed. I have payed for most of the content. The only reason I keep playing is because I can TR. I have never completed a saga, and will never farm them.

The way you play, is not the way everyone plays. Get a clue and come back later.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 12:29 PM
I'm VIP, sitting on the Bridge of Resistance for 13 hours now. We started in a threesome, now there are about 30 players from Wayfinder and from other Servers too. We do not quest, we do not barter, we do not shop, we just do nothing we'd be expected to do in a MMO. Ok, we complain about in the chat. But for this purpose there would be more comfortable platforms in the internet. So why do we do this in DDO? Because we are worried and want to show that we do not agree with planned changes. I'm very impressed by the people who have already joined, having the balls to stay there united for such a long time. *Thumbs up* to those fine representatives of the community.

DownGrayeDD
10-19-2013, 12:31 PM
If you pay, you have to let the freeloaders have their welfare. (F2P)

This welfare is a burden on resources we could put elsewhere.

TR is not required.

Anyone that wants to TR has already done so many times.

You are going to complete Sagas ANYWAY, because you are going to want to farm the rewards.



Is it possible to be more clueless then you are right now?

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 12:33 PM
Honestly? You think this is about F2P? I am making my first post to reply to this. I pay monthly for subscription and enjoy DDO enough to log on every other night to do some quests here and there. TR allows me to keep going on with this game on my own pace while exploring new builds and combinations. And they are making this difficult and almost impossible for us to do it without paying even more money and removing one of the more viable endgame options in this game. Tell me with a straight face that's completely okay and right.

And to be honest, you -- as a customer -- should be realizing the cost and fun ratio is completely screwed for this update.

You do not have to pay ONE PENNY MORE to TR after this change.

Run the Sagas.

This protest is because people that are NOT VIP do not want to have to buy content to TR.

You can be cheap or you can be lazy, but you can no longer be both.

I think it is a great idea.

DownGrayeDD
10-19-2013, 12:36 PM
You do not have to pay ONE PENNY MORE to TR after this change.

Run the Sagas.

This protest is because people that are NOT VIP do not want to have to buy content to TR.

You can be cheap or you can be lazy, but you can no longer be both.

I think it is a great idea.

it takes more then 50 saga completions on just to get the lowest heart

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 12:36 PM
Is it possible to be more clueless then you are right now?

Then clue me in, professor....



They are protesting being told they have to play the game to advance.

They are protesting because you have to pay for things to get benefits.


What is unreasonable about Turbine doing that?

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 12:38 PM
it takes more then 50 saga completions on just to get the lowest heart

1. That number is subject to change, IT'S ON THE TEST SERVER.

2. So what? You don't want to do 50 sagas? BUY a heart.

3. TR is NOT REQUIRED.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 12:38 PM
You do not have to pay ONE PENNY MORE to TR after this change.

Run the Sagas.

This protest is because people that are NOT VIP do not want to have to buy content to TR.

You can be cheap or you can be lazy, but you can no longer be both.

I think it is a great idea.

Well, clearly you are not reading my post. We do pay for subscription. :p

Like I said, don't worry if grinding is your thing, you can do it all your life! I won't stop you, but I most definitely won't stick around for it. I don't have the time to do something I don't enjoy. And most definitely will not spend $15 extra ontop of my subscription for more gaming that can be done elsewhere for even better gameplay.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 12:38 PM
You do not have to pay ONE PENNY MORE to TR after this change.

Run the Sagas.

This protest is because people that are NOT VIP do not want to have to buy content to TR.

You can be cheap or you can be lazy, but you can no longer be both.

I think it is a great idea.

Is this the player account of the dev whose idea this was? because you would literally be the only person who likes this change. More likely though, you are simply a clueless person that thinks they are the ess em are tee -est person around.

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 12:40 PM
Then clue me in, professor....



They are protesting being told they have to play the game to advance.

They are protesting because you have to pay for things to get benefits.


What is unreasonable about that?

Going from ~40 quest completions to ~50 saga completions to Heroic TR is bad. Pay status is not relevant.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 12:43 PM
Well, clearly you are not reading my post. We do pay for subscription. :p

Like I said, don't worry if grinding is your thing, you can do it all your life! I won't stop you, but I most definitely won't stick around for it. I don't have the time to do something I don't enjoy. And most definitely will not spend $15 extra ontop of my subscription for more gaming that can be done elsewhere for even better gameplay.

See... what you call "grinding", I call "playing the game".

If you do not enjoy playing the game, what are you doing here in the first place?

If you are VIP, save your TP and BUY the heart, with no grind required at all.

It's like folks are intentionally ignoring the facts, just to make a scene.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 12:44 PM
1. That number is subject to change, IT'S ON THE TEST SERVER.

2. So what? You don't want to do 50 sagas? BUY a heart.

3. TR is NOT REQUIRED.

You do realize that the majority of people paying for this game do not consider that an option? When no one is paying for the game anymore because of this decision, what will you do? What you do not realize is most of us are leaning towards the third option:
1 grind your mind into mush for a heart
2 pay cash for a heart
3 stop playing DDO.

People are canceling their subscriptions over this, so your idea that it is only F2P people mad about this, is just plain wrong.

MalkavianX
10-19-2013, 12:44 PM
I'm all for a good old fashioned sit in, singing kumbiya (sp?) and passing around the peace pipe and what not. But why have it just on Wayfinder which is easily the lowest population server we have? If we'd want to have any kind of impact (ie get more people informed about what's going on) then there should be an "occupation" on each and every server. Having it just on Wayfinder is akin to putting out an inferno one glass of water at a time.

For anyone who cares, I've been vip for 4-ish years and have yet to TR a single character. Even I think the change over is ridiculous to the extreme. But who knows? Maybe we're jumping the gun here. They could just be testing the waters and have every intention of making it more viable....

LOL!!! I almost typed that with a straight face.... almost! :D

DownGrayeDD
10-19-2013, 12:45 PM
See... what you call "grinding", I call "playing the game".

If you do not enjoy playing the game, what are you doing here in the first place?

If you are VIP, save your TP and BUY the heart, with no grind required at all.

It's like folks are intentionally ignoring the facts, just to make a scene.

You are so right. Why the **** should they worry about keeping most of their paying customers happy when they can make you happy...

Shorlong
10-19-2013, 12:47 PM
Then clue me in, professor....



They are protesting being told they have to play the game to advance.

They are protesting because you have to pay for things to get benefits.


What is unreasonable about Turbine doing that?



Gianthold saga includes 10 quests, at an average time of around 15 minutes (this is full zerg, Crucible kind of pushes that time limit up). To run it once is around 2 and a half hours. Now, you have to do it around 150 times. 375 hours to get a Heart....15 days of in game time playing gianthold quests. To get one fricken heart.

Or, force us to spend 20 bucks to buy one, even those of us that pay for two accounts, spend about 7 bucks a week in points for fun stuff, and have bought each expansion around five or six times.....yeah, seems real fair.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 12:48 PM
Going from ~40 quest completions to ~50 saga completions to Heroic TR is bad. Pay status is not relevant.

Please explain to me why slowing down the TR train is bad.

More variety of quests get run: good.

Chance of failure occasionally: FUN = good.

More people at cap, running quests for sagas for hearts: more endgame = good.

People have to purchase packs to complete sagas to TR: more money for Turbine = good.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 12:49 PM
See... what you call "grinding", I call "playing the game".

If you do not enjoy playing the game, what are you doing here in the first place?

If you are VIP, save your TP and BUY the heart, with no grind required at all.

It's like folks are intentionally ignoring the facts, just to make a scene.

What you call "playing the game," I call "playing only a certain portion of epic content." That is not the game. TRing allows us to play the entirety of the game again and again. We aren't igoring facts, but you don't even seem to have a grasp of what the facts are.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 12:49 PM
See... what you call "grinding", I call "playing the game".

If you do not enjoy playing the game, what are you doing here in the first place?

If you are VIP, save your TP and BUY the heart, with no grind required at all.

It's like folks are intentionally ignoring the facts, just to make a scene.

I find it really interesting you simply cannot grasp the concept of someone enjoying DDO by playing Eberron quests (because they are, in my opinion, the best designed quests), TR-ing when that's done, and experimenting with different character and class builds.

And...

DDO = Grinding?

Wow. If I want to grind, I'd play a bazillion other Japanese/Korean MMORPG. This guy clearly don't know what grinding really means.

But don't you worry, I completely get what makes you enjoy your game completely. And from the sad look of things -- you are in the minority. I hope you are used to playing solo if this update comes live!

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 12:54 PM
You do realize that the majority of people paying for this game do not consider that an option? When no one is paying for the game anymore because of this decision, what will you do? What you do not realize is most of us are leaning towards the third option:
1 grind your mind into mush for a heart
2 pay cash for a heart
3 stop playing DDO.

People are canceling their subscriptions over this, so your idea that it is only F2P people mad about this, is just plain wrong.

Yeah, cheap or lazy.

Cancel VIP over this = lazy.

They do not want to run the more difficult or long quests, because they might die and not feel as uber, possibly in front of others and feel embarrassed.

You also forgot option 4: Play your video game to have fun.

How is playing the quests in the game "grinding you mind to mush"? You will have to play a VARIETY of quests to complete sagas, iinstead of the current grind of very few quests with optimal speeds for tokens.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 12:55 PM
If we'd want to have any kind of impact (ie get more people informed about what's going on) then there should be an "occupation" on each and every server. Having it just on Wayfinder is akin to putting out an inferno one glass of water at a time.

Doing this on Wayfinder is not a bad idea, because it won't bother players who don't join the sit-in (yes, there still are a few of them despite this event), because of nearly no lag issues. But feel free to start a sit-in on your preferred server too. The more people protest, the sooner an impact is probable, no matter on which server they do.

Shorlong
10-19-2013, 12:59 PM
Yeah, cheap or lazy.

Cancel VIP over this = lazy.

They do not want to run the more difficult or long quests, because they might die and not feel as uber, possibly in front of others and feel embarrassed.

You also forgot option 4: Play your video game to have fun.

How is playing the quests in the game "grinding you mind to mush"? You will have to play a VARIETY of quests to complete sagas, iinstead of the current grind of very few quests with optimal speeds for tokens.

You are a special kind of special....

I have 15 characters on my account and main server. I play them multiple times. I had even though about doing an Epic TR on one of my two mains once my other main hits cap (he is on his second life, and I never planned on TRing him again.). Now, with the previous system, I farmed out a heart of wood in a week. Now, it would take me the better part of a year, and I would get tired of it and want to play my other character's as well, which would lead me to the point of just not even bothering, as the reward isn't worth it.

To some people, TRing is their endgame. It is what they do. Now, again, this change does not really affect me, as I have only TRed once, and I never planned on doing it again, but I did want to ER at least once. Yeah, I could spend 20 bucks to do it, but I would rather not, as I already spend so much on other things. Having that option there was nice. Taking it away is a stupid business decision.

ycheese123
10-19-2013, 12:59 PM
You can be cheap or you can be lazy, but you can no longer be both.

Challenge accepted.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:00 PM
Gianthold saga includes 10 quests, at an average time of around 15 minutes (this is full zerg, Crucible kind of pushes that time limit up). To run it once is around 2 and a half hours. Now, you have to do it around 150 times. 375 hours to get a Heart....15 days of in game time playing gianthold quests. To get one fricken heart.

Or, force us to spend 20 bucks to buy one, even those of us that pay for two accounts, spend about 7 bucks a week in points for fun stuff, and have bought each expansion around five or six times.....yeah, seems real fair.

Doesn't seem like an unreasonable amount of investment to me.

2 1/2 hours seems like a silly low time investment to TR.

You make it sound like you do not WANT to play GH. Don't you like GH? Weren't you going to play it anyways?

Oh and nobody is FORCING you to do anything, because TR IS NOT REQUIRED FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN EGO.

djl
10-19-2013, 01:00 PM
1. That number is subject to change, IT'S ON THE TEST SERVER.

2. So what? You don't want to do 50 sagas? BUY a heart.

3. TR is NOT REQUIRED.

1) LAM IS NOT A BLOODY TEST SERVER. It's a "preview server." Normally, what makes it on Lam is what makes it to live. I'm sure that based off the backlash, they'll adjust it some, but it more-than-likely won't be enough.

2) Oh, that's just great. If you don't want to spend WEEKS grinding out ONE heart, you're lazy. So just spend real money, instead! That's the perfect solution, said nobody ever. You really, honestly think that implementing such a blatant, forced cash-grab is going to encourage people (who are already disillusioned with the way Turbine has handled the game recently) to spend MORE money on this game? If you do, I've got a bridge to sell you.

3) "X is not required" is the lamest strawman ever. NOTHING in this game is required. However, currently, there is NOTHING to do at Level 28. Have you gotten any toons to 28? The LFM panel is a barren wasteland, and the expansion quests are not terribly imaginative and offer horrible loot. And with the emphasis this update is putting on TRing, if you do not want to TR the only other option at the moment is to quit the game. Which, by the way, a significant amount of players will probably do if they don't reduce these numbers by AT LEAST 3/4.

DownGrayeDD
10-19-2013, 01:02 PM
MOST of their paying customers are playing the game, not rabble-rousing the forums trying to ruin the game.

You see they ENJOY the game, they are HAVING FUN.

They do not see a "grind", they see an opportunity for more fun.

Maybe improve their performance this time, maybe show someone the quest for the first time.

They are playing, not acting like spoiled whiners that don't want to make any effort to get rewarded.

You seem to forget that some people actually enjoy the advancement of a character. Maybe someone that carries a pair of binoculars can see the carrot on the end of a 5 mile treadmill but it's enough to have most sane people say &%#$ it. My guess is you already have several completionists and love the idea locking out any new player from attaining and that idea gets you off.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:04 PM
What you call "playing the game," I call "playing only a certain portion of epic content." That is not the game. TRing allows us to play the entirety of the game again and again. We aren't igoring facts, but you don't even seem to have a grasp of what the facts are.

If you only own Gianthold, that might be valid, but there is more than one saga out there, and they all have both an Epic AND heroic version, so you can actually split the comm farming between the two.

Far too many people got spoiled abusing the short completion times of Epic Carnival.

You can still enjoy the entire game, again and again, you just have to do it less like a bull charging red cape.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 01:07 PM
Yeah, cheap or lazy.

Cancel VIP over this = lazy.

They do not want to run the more difficult or long quests, because they might die and not feel as uber, possibly in front of others and feel embarrassed.

You also forgot option 4: Play your video game to have fun.

How is playing the quests in the game "grinding you mind to mush"? You will have to play a VARIETY of quests to complete sagas, instead of the current grind of very few quests with optimal speeds for tokens.

Lazy really? When you are a customer you have to options, take what they give you, or don't pay them. It is not lazy so much as the only option they have to express how dissatisfied with the change they are.

Now lets talk about option 4: Play the game to have fun. I am glad you brought this up. I don't find anything fun about epic levels, nor epic quests. Hearts can only be earned by playing those epic sagas. Epic sagas are only gianthold and forgotten realms content. I do not have fun in forgotten realms, I pretty much hate every second spent there.

You say this will cause a variety of quests to be run, but you are mistaken, only the quests included in epic sagas will be able to earn hearts so only that small portion of the game will be ground out for hearts. That is the opposite of what you say. Playing only those limited quests rather than the quests I actually enjoy, very much fits the description of grinding your mind into mush.

This change will basically force me away from having fun as I am now, into running mostly quests that I hate. That is the opposite of playing the game for fun.

As to how difficult of a quest people run: who the heck cares? You say in the very next sentence that they should play the game for fun, but I guess what you mean is that they should play the game how you think is fun and otherwise be damned.

Shorlong
10-19-2013, 01:08 PM
Doesn't seem like an unreasonable amount of investment to me.

2 1/2 hours seems like a silly low time investment to TR.

You make it sound like you do not WANT to play GH. Don't you like GH? Weren't you going to play it anyways?

Oh and nobody is FORCING you to do anything, because TR IS NOT REQUIRED FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN EGO.


You make it sound like you have to play it once. You don't. You have to play it 150 times. 150 times, or 15 days of actual game play. If you started right now, and did not eat, sleep, take any breaks, stop to sell and repair or anything, you would have enough to get a heart in 15 days....15 days of straight playtime. Break that out into more common play time, and it get's worse. According to a thread that was done not too long ago, the average player spends about 2 hours a night playing. So, if for that two hours you got to play, you did nothing but run gianthold quests, and you played every single day, it would take you 187 days. That is over half a year. So, sometime next year, I can finally TR, and that is after spending all of my in game time on one character, doing nothing but running Gianthold.

Yeah, it seems pretty crappy.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:09 PM
I find it really interesting you simply cannot grasp the concept of someone enjoying DDO by playing Eberron quests (because they are, in my opinion, the best designed quests), TR-ing when that's done, and experimenting with different character and class builds.

And...

DDO = Grinding?

Wow. If I want to grind, I'd play a bazillion other Japanese/Korean MMORPG. This guy clearly don't know what grinding really means.

But don't you worry, I completely get what makes you enjoy your game completely. And from the sad look of things -- you are in the minority. I hope you are used to playing solo if this update comes live!

So your objection is that you have to play FR content?

I have TR toons....

I experiment with things on servers that aren't my main....

Do you even understand what grinding is? Doing the same thing over and over and over..... like running The Snitch 500 times for tokens because it is quick, or the same challenge over and over.

Completing sagas means running a PLETHORA of different quests, and therefore is LESS grindy.

I think you just like repeating what you hear to sound cool, with no understanding of the situation.

Shorlong
10-19-2013, 01:10 PM
If you only own Gianthold, that might be valid, but there is more than one saga out there, and they all have both an Epic AND heroic version, so you can actually split the comm farming between the two.

No, you can't. You can only get the comms from completing the epic sagas.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 01:11 PM
If you only own Gianthold, that might be valid, but there is more than one saga out there, and they all have both an Epic AND heroic version, so you can actually split the comm farming between the two.

Far too many people got spoiled abusing the short completion times of Epic Carnival.

You can still enjoy the entire game, again and again, you just have to do it less like a bull charging red cape.

Only epic sagas will give comms. So you don't even know how this works. Maybe you should educate yourself before you continue this discussion.

You have no idea how I enjoy the game, so trying to tell me I am a "bull charging a red cape" just continues to make you sound more and more ignorant.

RedOrm
10-19-2013, 01:11 PM
In a different thread, someone calculated it'll be far easier and very much faster to make a new toon, run it to 20, then delete it and use the TP you earned while leveling to go BUY a heart in the shop for your main... /shakes head in disbelief.

Greetz,
Red Orm

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:14 PM
You are a special kind of special....

I have 15 characters on my account and main server. I play them multiple times. I had even though about doing an Epic TR on one of my two mains once my other main hits cap (he is on his second life, and I never planned on TRing him again.). Now, with the previous system, I farmed out a heart of wood in a week. Now, it would take me the better part of a year, and I would get tired of it and want to play my other character's as well, which would lead me to the point of just not even bothering, as the reward isn't worth it.

To some people, TRing is their endgame. It is what they do. Now, again, this change does not really affect me, as I have only TRed once, and I never planned on doing it again, but I did want to ER at least once. Yeah, I could spend 20 bucks to do it, but I would rather not, as I already spend so much on other things. Having that option there was nice. Taking it away is a stupid business decision.

I'm special?

You are the one that thinks he can see the future.....

You are also the one jumping on a bandwagon that he admits doesn't really affect him.....

Epic TR is going to be a new system. Even if they left Heroic TR mechanics exactly the same, they would still make Epic TR this way....

You are mixing your apples and oranges, and do not even know it.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:16 PM
Challenge accepted.

A man's answer.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 01:17 PM
Just leave this guy alone. He clearly wants Turbine's U20 to fulfill his style of gaming more than any others.

I mean, he said grinding is gaming for him... though I totally think there a bazillion of other MMORPGs that is more grindier than DDO. So... you know... clearly he really wants this update so he can have even more fun! We can't judge him for that now, can we?

:cool:

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 01:17 PM
I'm special?

You are the one that thinks he can see the future.....

You are also the one jumping on a bandwagon that he admits doesn't really affect him.....

Epic TR is going to be a new system. Even if they left Heroic TR mechanics exactly the same, they would still make Epic TR this way....

You are mixing your apples and oranges, and do not even know it.

Devil's Advocate, or Troll?

You decide. :D

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:22 PM
1) LAM IS NOT A BLOODY TEST SERVER. It's a "preview server." Normally, what makes it on Lam is what makes it to live. I'm sure that based off the backlash, they'll adjust it some, but it more-than-likely won't be enough.

2) Oh, that's just great. If you don't want to spend WEEKS grinding out ONE heart, you're lazy. So just spend real money, instead! That's the perfect solution, said nobody ever. You really, honestly think that implementing such a blatant, forced cash-grab is going to encourage people (who are already disillusioned with the way Turbine has handled the game recently) to spend MORE money on this game? If you do, I've got a bridge to sell you.

3) "X is not required" is the lamest strawman ever. NOTHING in this game is required. However, currently, there is NOTHING to do at Level 28. Have you gotten any toons to 28? The LFM panel is a barren wasteland, and the expansion quests are not terribly imaginative and offer horrible loot. And with the emphasis this update is putting on TRing, if you do not want to TR the only other option at the moment is to quit the game. Which, by the way, a significant amount of players will probably do if they don't reduce these numbers by AT LEAST 3/4.

1. Semantics and you know it.

2. Yup, THERE is your "something to do at Level 28". Complete sagas. More content coming *soon.

3. ATM, MOST LFMs are a barren wasteland, due to a bunch of cheaters being banned. Level/server is irrelevant. Bashing the expansion garners no sympathy from me, its NEW content. Plus you are completely ignoring the option to JUST PLAY THE GAME AND HAVE FUN.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 01:25 PM
you are completely ignoring the option to JUST PLAY THE GAME AND HAVE FUN.

Few of the quests in the sagas are fun.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:27 PM
You seem to forget that some people actually enjoy the advancement of a character. Maybe someone that carries a pair of binoculars can see the carrot on the end of a 5 mile treadmill but it's enough to have most sane people say &%#$ it. My guess is you already have several completionists and love the idea locking out any new player from attaining and that idea gets you off.

You would be wrong. I work for a living. Completionists LIVE in DDO.

Plenty of ways to advance your character without TR.

TR benefits are minimal, anyways.

You really want to "advance your character"? Increase you playing skills by playing the more difficult/interesting quests.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 01:34 PM
More variety of quests get run: good.
But it will be FEWER quests run for comms, genius.


Chance of failure occasionally: FUN = good.
The only chance of failure introduced here is the chance of failure for the game as a whole


More people at cap, running quests for sagas for hearts: more endgame = good.
Except all those who will quit and can't be bothered. Also, this is not "endgame" in any shape or form.


People have to purchase packs to complete sagas to TR: more money for Turbine = good.
OK, setting aside all opinions and biases on this one, and even assuming nobody quits over this. It's a crappy short-term cash grab. You can only buy the new packs once - then the cash flow's dried out.

Also, as you might notice, most people complaining already have most or all of the relevant content anyway.


1. Semantics and you know it.
No it's not bloody semantics. We have a proper test server too, you know.


2. Yup, THERE is your "something to do at Level 28". Complete sagas. More content coming *soon.
I suppose putting holes in your arm with a screwdriver is "something to do" as well then. Gotcha. Brb.


3. ATM, MOST LFMs are a barren wasteland, due to a bunch of cheaters being banned. Level/server is irrelevant. Bashing the expansion garners no sympathy from me, its NEW content. Plus you are completely ignoring the option to JUST PLAY THE GAME AND HAVE FUN
It's not fun to run the same few quests over and over.

MrRoboto
10-19-2013, 01:35 PM
Can we shut this silly thread down already?

Nestroy
10-19-2013, 01:36 PM
You would be wrong. I work for a living. Completionists LIVE in DDO.

Plenty of ways to advance your character without TR.

TR benefits are minimal, anyways.

You really want to "advance your character"? Increase you playing skills by playing the more difficult/interesting quests.

The problem is that if this hits life unchanged, it will completel destroy the TR scene. it is easier to just level up from sratch one toon after the other, kill them at lv. 28 and restart than to grind out the sagas for the comms needed to epic TR. Scene destroyed, let´s get over with this and move on?

Fine, but I will tell you this - I fear that this behavior of Turbine would lead to a mass exodus of senior players. If this is intended, fine. If not, beware, Turbine!

Might I add, coincidence or not, that at the same time U20 will hit life, EOS will be comming up. In my guild allone about 50% of the active player base will give EOS a close look. And at least halfo of them are multiple TRs not liking by a large margin the changes in TR as are disclosed by now.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 01:36 PM
Can we shut this silly thread down already?

No. And thank you for the push :)

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 01:38 PM
I'm all for a good old fashioned sit in, singing kumbiya (sp?) and passing around the peace pipe and what not. But why have it just on Wayfinder which is easily the lowest population server we have? If we'd want to have any kind of impact (ie get more people informed about what's going on) then there should be an "occupation" on each and every server. Having it just on Wayfinder is akin to putting out an inferno one glass of water at a time.

Actually, a sudden spike in the population of a half-dead server may be more noticeable.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:39 PM
I don't find anything fun about epic levels, nor epic quests. Hearts can only be earned by playing those epic sagas. Epic sagas are only gianthold and forgotten realms content. I do not have fun in forgotten realms, I pretty much hate every second spent there.

So you hate most endgame content, sounds like you were going to quit anyways. In fact, you just sound sad in general.


You say this will cause a variety of quests to be run, but you are mistaken, only the quests included in epic sagas will be able to earn hearts so only that small portion of the game will be ground out for hearts. That is the opposite of what you say. Playing only those limited quests rather than the quests I actually enjoy, very much fits the description of grinding your mind into mush.
Actually, those sagas have Heroic versions as well. Please list all quests you enjoy. I think the list will be shorter than the list of quests in the relevant sagas.



This change will basically force me away from having fun as I am now, into running mostly quests that I hate. That is the opposite of playing the game for fun.
Some people think challenge and risk of failure is fun. Apparently, you think easy-mode is fun. Run the quests you do not enjoy on CASUAL. They made that difficulty just for people like you.


As to how difficult of a quest people run: who the heck cares? You say in the very next sentence that they should play the game for fun, but I guess what you mean is that they should play the game how you think is fun and otherwise be damned.
The people running them care: they run them because they are easy and mindless (see: grind). Quests with challenges force you to pay attention and not just faceroll the keyboard. You never know, once you actually TRY the quests a few times, you might like them. I HATED Crucible when I first tried it, now I am convinced it's one of the best quests in the game.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 01:40 PM
I suggest we stop replying to the uncleblue nonsense, as he's obviously a smelly, bridge-dwelling troll.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 01:41 PM
Seriously, guys, stop feeding the troll.

Good idea :P

Marcus-Hawkeye
10-19-2013, 01:41 PM
I have four accounts. One VIP, three premium. I multibox. I enjoy the game the way I choose to play it. It's fun.

I don't have a lot of time to play (full time job and single father of two). I buy the hearts I require from the store mainly because it saves me time on my way to completionist. It often takes me months just to go from 1-20.

This particular change with regards to how you obtain hearts in game does NOTHING to me. It doesn't change my gaming in the slightest. I have no actual stake in this.

Having said that, I think with the information provided of 17 comms per epic saga, and requiring 900 for just a regular TR is just absurd. It borders on lunacy.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:42 PM
You make it sound like you have to play it once. You don't. You have to play it 150 times. 150 times, or 15 days of actual game play. If you started right now, and did not eat, sleep, take any breaks, stop to sell and repair or anything, you would have enough to get a heart in 15 days....15 days of straight playtime. Break that out into more common play time, and it get's worse. According to a thread that was done not too long ago, the average player spends about 2 hours a night playing. So, if for that two hours you got to play, you did nothing but run gianthold quests, and you played every single day, it would take you 187 days. That is over half a year. So, sometime next year, I can finally TR, and that is after spending all of my in game time on one character, doing nothing but running Gianthold.

Yeah, it seems pretty crappy.

Yeah, it's also a huge exaggeration, and still subject to change.

And that is why the store exists. If you find this too large a time investment, invest money instead.

Same as F2P vs. VIP.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:45 PM
No, you can't. You can only get the comms from completing the epic sagas.

If this is accurate, then it is an oversight, and worth investigation/changing.

Are you sure you can not get Heroic TR tokens with Heroic Saga completions?

Got a link? Because I read it differently.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:48 PM
Only epic sagas will give comms. So you don't even know how this works. Maybe you should educate yourself before you continue this discussion.

You have no idea how I enjoy the game, so trying to tell me I am a "bull charging a red cape" just continues to make you sound more and more ignorant.

And maybe you just identified the only problem I find with the whole thing.

Personal attacks are the last resort of those with no ground to stand on.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:50 PM
Few of the quests in the sagas are fun.

Says you.

I disagree.

Sounds like you take little fun in anything to me.

Kind of a negative Nancy.

Shorlong
10-19-2013, 01:50 PM
If this is accurate, then it is an oversight, and worth investigation/changing.

Are you sure you can not get Heroic TR tokens with Heroic Saga completions?

Got a link? Because I read it differently.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376774-Lamannia-Release-Notes-(Last-Updated-10-18-2013)

Bolded for reference.


Sagas:
NEW: Epic level Saga rewards now include the option to select "Commendations of Valor:"
Commendations of Valor are a Bound to Character currency which fit in the Ingredient Bag.
If you remove the Commendations of Valor from your ingredient bag and doubleclick on them, a shop interface will open in which you can spend your Commendations of Valor for the following rewards:
Heroic True Heart of Wood (Bound to Character) currently requires 900 Commendations of Valor on Lamannia.
Iconic True Heart of Wood (Bound to Character) currently requires 1150 Commendations of Valor on Lamannia.
Epic Heart of Wood (Bound to Character) currently requires 2000 Commendations of Valor on Lamannia.
True Hearts of Wood are no longer available at The Twelve.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 01:52 PM
So you hate most endgame content, sounds like you were going to quit anyways. In fact, you just sound sad in general.No actually, I was going to TR more, but not if I have to run sagas.



Actually, those sagas have Heroic versions as well. Please list all quests you enjoy. I think the list will be shorter than the list of quests in the relevant sagas.
still ignorant, maybe caps will help you: ONLY EPIC SAGAS WILL GIVE COMS, NOT HEROIC!

As to which quests I like, well that would be most heroic quests with the exclusion of half the gianthold walkups and everything in the necropolis.



Some people think challenge and risk of failure is fun. Apparently, you think easy-mode is fun. Run the quests you do not enjoy on CASUAL. They made that difficulty just for people like you. I run everything on elite. I will not play quests I do not enjoy for any reason. I will not play them on casual because I will still not enjoy them.You seem incapable of getting it through you head that difficulty of quests is not a reason people don't run some things.



The people running them care: they run them because they are easy and mindless (see: grind). Quests with challenges force you to pay attention and not just faceroll the keyboard. You never know, once you actually TRY the quests a few times, you might like them. I HATED Crucible when I first tried it, now I am convinced it's one of the best quests in the game.
I have run every quest in the game. I try new quests to see if I will miraculously start liking FR content. I do so so I can be honest when I say I hate them. You tell me to play the game to have fun, but now you are telling me to play the parts I hate till I like them.

The people running the quests on lower difficulty are not running them with you and you and them would not have fun together, so why do you care how they have fun?


As a note, you should stop making assumptions about my playstyle as so far, you have not had a single correct assumption.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 01:56 PM
But it will be FEWER quests run for comms, genius.

The only chance of failure introduced here is the chance of failure for the game as a whole

Except all those who will quit and can't be bothered. Also, this is not "endgame" in any shape or form.

OK, setting aside all opinions and biases on this one, and even assuming nobody quits over this. It's a crappy short-term cash grab. You can only buy the new packs once - then the cash flow's dried out.

Also, as you might notice, most people complaining already have most or all of the relevant content anyway.

No it's not bloody semantics. We have a proper test server too, you know.

I suppose putting holes in your arm with a screwdriver is "something to do" as well then. Gotcha. Brb.

It's not fun to run the same few quests over and over.

Do the math, the variety of quests run (in practice, not principal) will be much higher. Currently, people grind a select few quests.
Having to run quests unfamiliar to you will be a challenge, trust me.
Quitters never win. "Endgame" is defined by the game, and we both know this is a temporary measure until level 30 cap. Quit being stupid.
OMG HOW DARE TURBINE TRY TO MAKE MONEY! THE NERVE!
I see like 10 REALLY VOCAL people complaining.
Semantics is semantics, look it up.
Equating running sagas to self-mutilation is ridiculous.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 01:57 PM
And maybe you just identified the only problem I find with the whole thing.

Personal attacks are the last resort of those with no ground to stand on.

When you make a statement that contants incorrect information, and are told you are ignorant because of it, it is not a personal attack, but a statement of fact. You were ignorant. Now, based on your statement, I assume you are no longer ignorant on that subject.

Shorlong
10-19-2013, 02:00 PM
Yeah, it's also a huge exaggeration, and still subject to change.

And that is why the store exists. If you find this too large a time investment, invest money instead.

Same as F2P vs. VIP.

I have invested money. Lots of it, every month. I have spent, in four years, around $1,000 a year, and plan on spending more. That isn't the point though. I had an option in game to do it, and now, in order to do it, you have to sink half a year to grind it. It is NOT an exaggeration, it is fact. Running it on epic hard, the entire saga, nets you 17 comms. Just to do a normal TR and get a normal Heroic Heart, you need to run the Gianthold saga on EH 53 times. The entire saga, on epic only. 53 times. That's over a month at 2 hours a night doing nothing but Gianthold quests on Epic Hard. Epic TR is running EGH on EH 118 times. So, while my original numbers were off (I was going based off of the 150 runs someone else mentioned) it is still 147 days at 2 hours a day.

That is a bit much to ask. Now, take all epic level packs and make them sagas with the same reward, awesome, much better. Still not great, as it still takes the same amount of time, but at least you can vary your play somewhat. Now cut the requirement down about 3/4ths, and you have something much more manageable. It would still take over a month to get the Epic heart, but about a week for a heroic. This is still longer than what some people do now, but about on par with what the average gamer gets.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 02:01 PM
The problem is that if this hits life unchanged, it will completel destroy the TR scene. it is easier to just level up from sratch one toon after the other, kill them at lv. 28 and restart than to grind out the sagas for the comms needed to epic TR. Scene destroyed, let´s get over with this and move on?

Fine, but I will tell you this - I fear that this behavior of Turbine would lead to a mass exodus of senior players. If this is intended, fine. If not, beware, Turbine!

Might I add, coincidence or not, that at the same time U20 will hit life, EOS will be comming up. In my guild allone about 50% of the active player base will give EOS a close look. And at least halfo of them are multiple TRs not liking by a large margin the changes in TR as are disclosed by now.

The "TR scene" is changing, like things do.

Never heard of EOS. If they create a better game, more power to them, and they deserve whatever playerbase they can build.

Sounds like you think your guild is the entire playerbase. It isn't. Stop whining.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 02:02 PM
And maybe you just identified the only problem I find with the whole thing.

Personal attacks are the last resort of those with no ground to stand on.

When you make a statement that contants incorrect information, and are told you are ignorant because of it, it is not a personal attack, but a statement of fact.


Says you.

I disagree.

Yes we disagree, but you seem to be missing the point. Why should people, who unlike you, dislike that particular part of the game be forced to run it as the only way to get back to the part of the game they enjoy? You stated we should play for fun, so you should be just fine with a way for other s to have fun too.


Sounds like you take little fun in anything to me.

Kind of a negative Nancy.I don't like the things you like, so I must not like anything? Really? That's what you are going with? And then right after your post claiming being called ignorant, after you had shown you were, was a personal attack, you start with name calling.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 02:04 PM
I suggest we stop replying to the uncleblue nonsense, as he's obviously a smelly, bridge-dwelling troll.

No need to resort to name-calling.

Way to show your maturity, though.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 02:06 PM
Getting bigger. Thanks to all the newcomers. No thanks to the caustic forum trolls :P

http://s22.postimg.org/5yc2s45q9/Screen_Shot00048.jpg



No need to resort to name-calling.

Way to show your maturity, though.

Yeah, sorry. I suppose I should've joined you in calling people "cheap" and "lazy", that's totally mature :P

Chauncey1
10-19-2013, 02:08 PM
is astonishing.

AtomicMew
10-19-2013, 02:09 PM
Biggest guild on wayfinder? ;o

http://i.imgur.com/UARirOMl.jpg (http://imgur.com/UARirOM)

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 02:10 PM
Increasing the time requirement is not the same as increasing grind.

Lol. Yes it is.

Bolo_Grubb
10-19-2013, 02:14 PM
Seriously? This is what has you up in arms? Turbine slowing down the TR train? Seriously?



THey are not slowing down the TR train. They are killing it.




TR is not required.

Anyone that wants to TR has already done so many times.

You are going to complete Sagas ANYWAY, because you are going to want to farm the rewards.

No I am not going to run the sagas for the rewards because they limit the choices. It is an either or choice. either take the comm of valor or skill tome or xp reward. Where as with the epic tokens you get in the end chest and then get a choice of rewards.

and several people are still doing the TR because we enjoy the heroic level content.

You are right that TR is not required, but for some it is a lot of fun. Reduce that fun and we shall find our fun somewhere else, in a different game most likely. My friends and I that enjoy the TR process are currently all VIP

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 02:17 PM
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376774-Lamannia-Release-Notes-(Last-Updated-10-18-2013)

Bolded for reference.

Yup, I totally missed that one word in a massive Release notes post. Burn me at the stake.

Sounds like allowing for comms in Heroic saga completions lists would go a long way towards making things right.

If this thread were asking for that, I would fully support it. It doesn't. It encourages what amounts to trying to crash the server.

We are also forgetting that there will be more sagas in the future, for even more quest diversity.

DownGrayeDD
10-19-2013, 02:23 PM
Sounds like you would have a valid complaint, except you admit it affects you not at all.

Increasing the time requirement is not the same as increasing grind.


Confirmed troll.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 02:24 PM
Sounds like allowing for comms in Heroic saga completions lists would go a long way towards making things right.
Yes. It that has been stated in several threads. It would also need alot more sagas in the heroic content too, and it would need them when this goes live.

We are also forgetting that there will be more sagas in the future, for even more quest diversity.
If it goes live without what I stated above (or some alternative that I find reasonable), I can't speak for anyone but me, but I will leave, and I will not be checking back to see later, I will just be done. They need to get it right the first time, it goes live, (as far as what is intended, I am more understanding about unintended bugs) not just get it out to live and fix it (what is intended to be they way it works) in a later update.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 02:28 PM
It grows and grows. The solidarity is outstanding :)

http://s1.directupload.net/images/131019/nru6eivj.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

Feel free to join us on Wayfinder or create a similar sit-in on your preferred server!

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 02:30 PM
No actually, I was going to TR more, but not if I have to run sagas.
That's your choice. Maybe if you hold your breath Turbine will relent and stop abusing you.


still ignorant, maybe caps will help you: ONLY EPIC SAGAS WILL GIVE COMS, NOT HEROIC!
Yup, totally missed that one. Seems like it's the only thing worth complaining about.


As to which quests I like, well that would be most heroic quests with the exclusion of half the gianthold walkups and everything in the necropolis.
Color me shocked, you do not like non-linear quests with a high degree of inherent difficulty. What was that about wrong assumptions?


I run everything on elite. I will not play quests I do not enjoy for any reason. I will not play them on casual because I will still not enjoy them.You seem incapable of getting it through you head that difficulty of quests is not a reason people don't run some things.
And if you choose to only run a very select list of quests, how is that Turbine's fault again? Also, you don't like difficult quests, you like Easy quests, you are just running them at 2 levels higher mob hp/trap damage. Lie to yourself all you want, but I'm not buying it.


I have run every quest in the game. I try new quests to see if I will miraculously start liking FR content. I do so so I can be honest when I say I hate them. You tell me to play the game to have fun, but now you are telling me to play the parts I hate till I like them.
The people running the quests on lower difficulty are not running them with you and you and them would not have fun together, so why do you care how they have fun?
As a note, you should stop making assumptions about my playstyle as so far, you have not had a single correct assumption.

So you try each quest once, and then decide most of them suck? You are not the majority, dude. Why would you play a game at all (paying for it, even) when you hate the majority of it? I would respond to the rest, but it reads like gibberish.

Azarddoze
10-19-2013, 02:31 PM
If this thread were asking for that, I would fully support it. It doesn't. It encourages what amounts to trying to crash the server.

We are also forgetting that there will be more sagas in the future, for even more quest diversity.

Even though I understand that you're most likely having fun with this thread, can't you see this is one true issue that will cut the legs off some players that relied on farming an already decent amount of useless stuff to use the number one mechanic that brings longetivity to the game? It's not like if TR wasn't a source of money (from some - think boxes) through the re-leveling process that it is fair that there is also a way to get it for free in a way.

If at least it would affect gameplay in general or you negatively in any way... maybe I would understand but right now you're pushing it.
It's that one other fight after the wipe-it-all that needs to be won for TRers to keep staying active. To some, that is all there is to the game... not epic levels. And it's their choices to enjoy whatever part they want without being penalized on something that seemed already fair to begin with.

Heroic vs Epic levels are kind of 2 different games to me. Or at least when it comes to your character.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 02:36 PM
Sounds like allowing for comms in Heroic saga completions lists would go a long way towards making things right.
Nope, wouldn't. A drop in an ocean. The core problem will stay - you're forced to run a small list of quests with little choice over and over. Unless they add around 10-20 more new sagas and DRASTICALLY drop the grind, the changes are ridiculous.


Biggest guild on wayfinder? ;o
We could totally revitalize the server if Turbine listened to us :O

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 02:38 PM
I have invested money. Lots of it, every month. I have spent, in four years, around $1,000 a year, and plan on spending more. That isn't the point though. I had an option in game to do it, and now, in order to do it, you have to sink half a year to grind it. It is NOT an exaggeration, it is fact. Running it on epic hard, the entire saga, nets you 17 comms. Just to do a normal TR and get a normal Heroic Heart, you need to run the Gianthold saga on EH 53 times. The entire saga, on epic only. 53 times. That's over a month at 2 hours a night doing nothing but Gianthold quests on Epic Hard. Epic TR is running EGH on EH 118 times. So, while my original numbers were off (I was going based off of the 150 runs someone else mentioned) it is still 147 days at 2 hours a day.

That is a bit much to ask. Now, take all epic level packs and make them sagas with the same reward, awesome, much better. Still not great, as it still takes the same amount of time, but at least you can vary your play somewhat. Now cut the requirement down about 3/4ths, and you have something much more manageable. It would still take over a month to get the Epic heart, but about a week for a heroic. This is still longer than what some people do now, but about on par with what the average gamer gets.

1. Sounds like running it on EE would speed things up. Whats your math on that? Using EH as the benchmark is WHY its an exaggeration.
2. You spend $1000 a year on DDO? I find that difficult to believe. And if it is true, whats the big deal? Buy a heart.
3. Why is 1 week to TR your "OK" number? Seems too easy to me. What's wrong with a month? It slows down the hamster wheel.

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 02:38 PM
Nope, wouldn't. A drop in an ocean. The core problem will stay - you're forced to run a small list of quests with little choice over and over. Unless they add around 10-20 more new sagas and DRASTICALLY drop the grind, the changes are ridiculous.


We could totally revitalize the server if Turbine listened to us :O

We don't mind you visiting, but you cannot stay. You all must leave by the time your visa expires. :cool:

AtomicMew
10-19-2013, 02:38 PM
Turbine sure knows how to unite the player base~!

Guys, please do not feed the trolls. Let's not give them an excuse to close this thread.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 02:39 PM
Sounds like you would have a valid complaint, except you admit it affects you not at all.

Increasing the time requirement is not the same as increasing grind.

Also, those numbers are subject to change.

Thank you for not devolving into another of the gibbering herd of sheep that just like to complain.

Wait a second. So... you mean, we have to pay FOUR accounts before we have the right to complain? On top of spending $1000?

You do realize a lot of us have an ongoing subscription and already bought two of the expansion packs, right? Or well, at least I have... and I also got the collector's edition.

I still don't have the right of complain?

Your perception is really interesting...

Annnnd... so much for not insulting anyone. You are a beacon of maturity, you.

EDIT: Oh wait a second. That guy who spent that much got his head whacked in for complaining. Spend another $15! There is no winning with this guy at all, he is just determined to say we are all wrong. :p

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 02:40 PM
We are also forgetting that there will be more sagas in the future, for even more quest diversity.

Yeah, as soon as we get Cleric domains, I'm sure.


Guys, please do not feed the trolls. Let's not give them an excuse to close this thread.

Double-edged sword here. You're right, but then again, the trolls are helping us keep the thread on top of the forums, and are making pages grow, attracting more and more attention.

Qhualor
10-19-2013, 02:41 PM
My character slots are maxxed out. If I log onto another server, will I get empty character slots? I'll join in if I can create a new character on a different server.

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 02:42 PM
Yeah, as soon as we get Cleric domains, I'm sure.



Double-edged sword here. You're right, but then again, the trolls are helping us keep the thread on top of the forums, and are making pages grow, attracting more and more attention.

As a garden also needs fertilizer. :D

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 02:43 PM
My character slots are maxxed out. If I log onto another server, will I get empty character slots? I'll join in if I can create a new character on a different server.

Isn't slot count a per server thing?

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 02:43 PM
My character slots are maxxed out. If I log onto another server, will I get empty character slots? I'll join in if I can create a new character on a different server.

It is limited character slots per server. So do feel free to drop by. :)

Ivan_Milic
10-19-2013, 02:44 PM
Yeah, as soon as we get Cleric domains, I'm sure.



Double-edged sword here. You're right, but then again, the trolls are helping us keep the thread on top of the forums, and are making pages grow, attracting more and more attention.

No, as soon as ladder bug is fixed or as soon as they fix house c challenges.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 02:46 PM
Color me shocked, you do not like non-linear quests with a high degree of inherent difficulty. What was that about wrong assumptions?You say this as if the only non linear quests in the game are the ones in gianthold, necropolis or forgotten realms. It is like you don't even know what quests are outside the sagas.



And if you choose to only run a very select list of quests, how is that Turbine's fault again? So me liking most of the heroic quests in the game amounts to only running a select list of quests, but only running saga quests does not? Who ever said it was turbines fault anyway? No where turbine and I disagree is where they take away my current capability to tr via running quests I like, and replacing it with a much more limited way to TR via only quests I dislike. If they don't do that, I don't have an issue.



Also, you don't like difficult quests, you like Easy quests, you are just running them at 2 levels higher mob hp/trap damage. Lie to yourself all you want, but I'm not buying it.
There you go making assumptions again. It is like you think "that thing people say everyone does" is the way I play. To be honest I couldn't care less about what you think of they way anyone plays. You are avoiding the question though: why is it so important to you to force other people to only have fun they way YOU like?



So you try each quest once, and then decide most of them suck? You are not the majority, dude. Why would you play a game at all (paying for it, even) when you hate the majority of it? I would respond to the rest, but it reads like gibberish. I have never claimed to speak for anyone but myself, so I don't know where the "you are not the majority' thing comes from. Heroic levels have much more content than epic levels, and ebberon has more content than the forgotten realms, so to say that me not liking epic levels is disliking the majority of the game is simply false information. I did not even say most quests suck, I said, most FR content sucks. The majority of the game is not set in the forgotten realms.

Just curious, how many times do you have to do something before you figure out whether or not you like it?

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 02:48 PM
My character slots are maxxed out. If I log onto another server, will I get empty character slots?

Yup, come on over, and apply to the guild. Wayfinder, Marketplace, Instance 1.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 02:49 PM
You are avoiding the question though: why is it so important to you to force other people to only have fun they way YOU like?


That's the very same question I keep asking myself when I read uncleblue's response. Maybe we are very clearly playing it wrong and he is extra enlightened to how DDO should truly be played? ;)

SHOCK_and_AWE
10-19-2013, 02:50 PM
Sounds like you would have a valid complaint, except you admit it affects you not at all.

Increasing the time requirement is not the same as increasing grind.

Also, those numbers are subject to change.

Thank you for not devolving into another of the gibbering herd of sheep that just like to complain.


Confirmed troll.

http://i.imgur.com/qNNunBL.png

Chauncey1
10-19-2013, 02:50 PM
Yup, come on over, and apply to the guild. Wayfinder, Marketplace, Instance 1.

I was there about an hour ago.
Gonna log back in shortly to see how much bigger the group has gotten.

Chauncey1
10-19-2013, 02:51 PM
http://i.imgur.com/qnnunbl.png


HA!

Brilliant!

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 02:51 PM
Even though I understand that you're most likely having fun with this thread, can't you see this is one true issue that will cut the legs off some players that relied on farming an already decent amount of useless stuff to use the number one mechanic that brings longetivity to the game? It's not like if TR wasn't a source of money (from some - think boxes) through the re-leveling process that it is fair that there is also a way to get it for free in a way.

If at least it would affect gameplay in general or you negatively in any way... maybe I would understand but right now you're pushing it.
It's that one other fight after the wipe-it-all that needs to be won for TRers to keep staying active. To some, that is all there is to the game... not epic levels. And it's their choices to enjoy whatever part they want without being penalized on something that seemed already fair to begin with.

Heroic vs Epic levels are kind of 2 different games to me. Or at least when it comes to your character.

I am most definitely NOT having fun with this thread.
I find it highly suspect that this is happening after a large banning.
I think people like being part of something big, even if that something big is stupid.
I think this is getting a lot of support from people with no investment in the game.
I think that some people are determined to see this game burn, and will go to any lengths to do so.
I think there is no way that THIS is the issue that is going to ruin everything. Combat changes were much more far-reaching.
I see huge parallels between this and what happened with Star Wars Galaxies, a bunch of whiners unwilling to change ruining it for everyone.
I see the same 5-10 VERY VOCAL people stirring up trouble.
I understand that it is ALL subject to change.
I think there are better ways to go about being heard.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 02:54 PM
^ 10 vocal people vs 1 vocal troll. You're still "the minority", dude.


Also, best quote from in-game so far:




(Guild:): [Guild] NAME: *** i just install this game , and cant understand ***

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 02:55 PM
I am most definitely NOT having fun with this thread.
I find it highly suspect that this is happening after a large banning.
I think people like being part of something big, even if that something big is stupid.
I think this is getting a lot of support from people with no investment in the game.
I think that some people are determined to see this game burn, and will go to any lengths to do so.
I think there is no way that THIS is the issue that is going to ruin everything. Combat changes were much more far-reaching.
I see huge parallels between this and what happened with Star Wars Galaxies, a bunch of whiners unwilling to change ruining it for everyone.
I see the same 5-10 VERY VOCAL people stirring up trouble.
I understand that it is ALL subject to change.
I think there are better ways to go about being heard.

Oh? So you think that Turbine, forcing us -- a bunch of people that just really don't enjoy Epic sagas all that much -- is a good idea? You mean, it'll herd us into playing it?
Or are you thinking that it'd "thin" out the herd? Looking at the protest in Wayfinder and how many people are joining from other servers... looks like quite a big herd to cull off from the "people that truly understands the game".

Ontop of that, also a lot of subscription users that are unhappy and cancelling subscription.

Even if you are right that we are not suitable for DDO, surely you must realized that Turbine is really shooting themselves in the foot in their business. And them lacking business means a ship that will sink all the faster for you.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 02:55 PM
I find it highly suspect that this is happening after a large banning.

It's because we got the info yesterday: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/428231-New-way-to-acquire-the-new-Hearts-of-Wood-TR-Hearts-of-Wood-no-longer-avaible-at-12/page2#post5137530


I think there are better ways to go about being heard.

Sure there are, but this is a pretty good one too^^

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 02:58 PM
http://s23.postimg.org/m3zaauydn/Screen_Shot00049.jpg

More and more people, and we have pumpkins! :D

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:01 PM
That's the very same question I keep asking myself when I read uncleblue's response. Maybe we are very clearly playing it wrong and he is extra enlightened to how DDO should truly be played? ;)

Good, focus all your hate on me. I can take it, and the Devs do not deserve it.

DDO will be played as Turbine sees fit.

I am a realist, and I understand that things change, and sometimes I do not like the change, but sometimes I learn to like them.

There are a bunch of paid professionals working on this, I have met a few of them.

They are nice people that love this game, as I do, who have WAY more info, and possibly some different goals.

Financial viability is the ONLY thing that keeps this game afloat.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 03:05 PM
Good, focus all your hate on me. I can take it, and the Devs do not deserve it.

DDO will be played as Turbine sees fit.

I am a realist, and I understand that things change, and sometimes I do not like the change, but sometimes I learn to like them.

There are a bunch of paid professionals working on this, I have met a few of them.

They are nice people that love this game, as I do, who have WAY more info, and possibly some different goals.

Financial viability is the ONLY thing that keeps this game afloat.

Ahh... So you are a Good Samaritan for the developers then.

I am sorry, mate. I actually don't hate you... and I also don't actually believe you are a troll either. I think you genuinely believe in what you are arguing for... but I am sorry to say that I am fighting for a different idea because whatever you -- and Turbine -- have in mind isn't my cup of tea at all.

So, let's cut back on the insult and just realize that no matter what you say, I am not going to budge on how ridiculous this idea is to me.
As I have been saying, they either cut this change out or they lose a customer (and a few other more).
Of course, you'd be more than happy to lose me, I am sure... but money is money. Let's see where the coins fall in the end.

No form of "not understanding Turbine" will cut through if they lose business in the end because of this decision.

Brendael
10-19-2013, 03:05 PM
I find it highly suspect that this is happening after a large banning.

I don't think that a connection can be drawn between the two events.


I think this is getting a lot of support from people with no investment in the game.

Most of the people supporting this are people who TR on a regular basis. Most people who TR regularly are the ones who have invested a lot of time (And often money.) into the game


I think that some people are determined to see this game burn, and will go to any lengths to do so.

Once again, the people who are upset are the ones who have devoted a lot of time and money into the game. Why would they want to see it burn? That makes no sense.


I think there is no way that THIS is the issue that is going to ruin everything. Combat changes were much more far-reaching.

This does seem to be an issue that is getting a lot of attention from the player-base. I doubt it will destroy the game but it has the potential to affect it profoundly.


I see huge parallels between this and what happened with Star Wars Galaxies, a bunch of whiners unwilling to change ruining it for everyone.

If the developers make such huge, overwhelming changes in the face of the kind of resistance seen with SWG and now this, you should blame them for going against the wishes of their player base. Microsoft made the same arrogant mistake with Windows 8. In any business you need to listen to your customers, and failure to do so is the fault of the business, not the fault of the customers.


I see the same 5-10 VERY VOCAL people stirring up trouble.

I see overwhelming condemnation of the new system by the vast majority of the folks who have learned about it.


I understand that it is ALL subject to change.

Everything is subject to change. Turbine has a history of ignoring player feedback with regards to game play changes.


I think there are better ways to go about being heard.

What would you suggest?

Chauncey1
10-19-2013, 03:06 PM
*snip*

Financial viability is the ONLY thing that keeps this game afloat.

If these changes cause players to leave en mass. Kinda defeats the purpose I'd say.

AtomicMew
10-19-2013, 03:09 PM
This game will not be financially solvent if the changes go through as is. Increasing the amount of grind required to do a TR by TWO orders of magnitude is simply not okay. Do you see how many people are on wayfinder or are in the guild? There have been hundreds of people stopping by over the course of two days. A lot of these people are very active players who spend a lot of money on the game, through experience potions, otto boxes etc.

Personally, I have made turbine roughly ~$10,000 over the course of 2-3 years. How much money have you made turbine? It is outrageous that you come in here to talk about financial viability when you've contributed less than 0.01% compared to all the people who are extremely upset about this lunacy.

I will be quitting if the changes go through as is.

Brendael
10-19-2013, 03:10 PM
Financial viability is the ONLY thing that keeps this game afloat.

I agree with this 100%. However, companies need to work on striking a balance between monetization and alienating their player-base. If they chase too many customers away they will need to find more intrusive means of monetization which will force more players away. It will turn into a vicious circle where nobody wins.

They would do well to sacrifice a few pennies now for longer term financial stability.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:11 PM
^ 10 vocal people vs 1 vocal troll. You're still "the minority", dude.
Also, best quote from in-game so far:

Way to ruin it for a newcomer. Shame on you all.

Also, the majority of players do not actually read the forums. They are busy playing and having fun.

I think it is reasonable to assume that there are others that agree with some of my viewpoints, but are simply afraid of the backlash that voicing their opinion would create. They do not feel the need to be attacked for disagreeing.

Because this issue is simply not that important to them, and will barely affect them.

The time requirement for Completionist was MEANT to be ridiculous. DDO wants your loyalty over years of commitment. New ways of shortcutting the system have developed, and the investment must be increased accordingly. If you really are going to "WIN" DDO, you are going to have to earn it or buy it, because once you have "won", why would you continue to pay or play?

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 03:15 PM
Way to ruin it for a newcomer. Shame on you all.

Also, the majority of players do not actually read the forums. They are busy playing and having fun.

I think it is reasonable to assume that there are others that agree with some of my viewpoints, but are simply afraid of the backlash that voicing their opinion would create. They do not feel the need to be attacked for disagreeing.

Because this issue is simply not that important to them, and will barely affect them.

The time requirement for Completionist was MEANT to be ridiculous. DDO wants your loyalty over years of commitment. New ways of shortcutting the system have developed, and the investment must be increased accordingly. If you really are going to "WIN" DDO, you are going to have to earn it or buy it, because once you have "won", why would you continue to pay or play?

Are you really hoping that you will be able to enlighten us into your way of thinking? What's your purpose of being in this threat anyway? What do you get from telling us that we are wrong? Considering we are probably not going think we are wrong since having fun is such a subjective thing.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 03:16 PM
There are a bunch of paid professionals working on this, I have met a few of them.

It also was a bunch of paid, high educated professionals working on it, who brought us the financial crisis. Think about this.

In fact realists are the willing footsoldiers, they never dare to have a system-critical opinion, because it's the actual system that made them realists-regarding-how-the-system-works. Doubting the system or any aspects of it leads to uncertainness, which a realist barely can stand. Think about this too.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 03:17 PM
The time requirement for Completionist was MEANT to be ridiculous. DDO wants your loyalty over years of commitment. New ways of shortcutting the system have developed, and the investment must be increased accordingly. If you really are going to "WIN" DDO, you are going to have to earn it or buy it, because once you have "won", why would you continue to pay or play?

You are assuming the only reason people TR is to get completionist. That is wrong. I know one guy in game on his 32 life, all 32 of which were the same class. He does not have comletionist. I know many like him. I am one of them. I couldn't care about completionist, I just want to go back to level 1 and play the quests I like again. Why are you so against this?

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:17 PM
Oh? So you think that Turbine, forcing us -- a bunch of people that just really don't enjoy Epic sagas all that much -- is a good idea? You mean, it'll herd us into playing it?
Or are you thinking that it'd "thin" out the herd? Looking at the protest in Wayfinder and how many people are joining from other servers... looks like quite a big herd to cull off from the "people that truly understands the game".

Ontop of that, also a lot of subscription users that are unhappy and cancelling subscription.

Even if you are right that we are not suitable for DDO, surely you must realized that Turbine is really shooting themselves in the foot in their business. And them lacking business means a ship that will sink all the faster for you.

Intelligent adults know that the size of your crowd bears little relation to the issue at hand.
People like to be able to say they were part of something big, even if they don't really care what the big thing is.
Others simply like to cause trouble, they think it is fun. Occupy movements were an excuse to break the law for many.
It is still highly suspect that this is happening so soon after a large banning.

I suggest Turbine researches the accounts involved in the protest, and then permabans anyone who only recently got back from ban, as well as suspending ALL free accounts for 1 week. Troublemakers are trouble, and this game is not a democracy.

Azarddoze
10-19-2013, 03:18 PM
I am most definitely NOT having fun with this thread.
I find it highly suspect that this is happening after a large banning.
I think people like being part of something big, even if that something big is stupid.
I think this is getting a lot of support from people with no investment in the game.
I think that some people are determined to see this game burn, and will go to any lengths to do so.
I think there is no way that THIS is the issue that is going to ruin everything. Combat changes were much more far-reaching.
I see huge parallels between this and what happened with Star Wars Galaxies, a bunch of whiners unwilling to change ruining it for everyone.
I see the same 5-10 VERY VOCAL people stirring up trouble.
I understand that it is ALL subject to change.
I think there are better ways to go about being heard.

While you speak some truth right there as I agree with a couple of points, when it comes to heroic TR it's still not a change that has to be made. Why make something that exist simply harder to get or even out of reach as a goal to be set to others.

Also while I don't play much atm, when I do it's a constant TRing train and I didn't mind to buy a couple hearts when I spent all the ones I had from epic tokens or I didn't wanna farm that one life. Knowing that i'd HAVE TO pay for every single TRs (that's 3-4 a month) would be a discouraging factor to even consider re-engaging myself in the game once I can spare the time to do so because I don't wanna run epics till my eyes bleed. I've done it for months, I didn't like it, I now know I don't like it... overall it's just no fun at all for me.

You can divide the number of hearts by 2 as I'd get at the very least 1/2 of it from favor (maybe not actually). But then again, will I use a 30+% pots at that one crucial moment I know I can gather crazy exp by chaining quest? Most likely.

I will not comment on anything beside the mechanic that I feel is endangered since... yeah. I guess i'm the one who derailed, i'm totally blind to that occupy thingy. My head won't resolve to take it seriously and I hope it's just a mirage hehe. Nonetheless, the message behind needs to be heard till a confirmation of change has been made.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:22 PM
It's because we got the info yesterday: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/428231-New-way-to-acquire-the-new-Hearts-of-Wood-TR-Hearts-of-Wood-no-longer-avaible-at-12/page2#post5137530

So the last sentence makes it pretty clear Reincarnation is not ready for preview.

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe that's why the comm requirements are so high?

They do not want anyone redeeming comms until it is ready, but they DO want to beta test the systems that ARE ready.

Protest is still HIGHLY suspect, and this issue is just a convenient lightning rod for the gullible.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 03:23 PM
Intelligent adults know that the size of your crowd bears little relation to the issue at hand.
People like to be able to say they were part of something big, even if they don't really care what the big thing is.
Others simply like to cause trouble, they think it is fun. Occupy movements were an excuse to break the law for many.
It is still highly suspect that this is happening so soon after a large banning.

I suggest Turbine researches the accounts involved in the protest, and then permabans anyone who only recently got back from ban, as well as suspending ALL free accounts for 1 week. Troublemakers are trouble, and this game is not a democracy.

... First, no one is actually breaking the law... well. Actually. You don't care about that, do you? You just have such a terrible impression of us!
Have you also suggested your permaban and culling of the herds to the professionals you have met? You totally should. I have a feeling you'd meet with some great approval if you are right that Turbine doesn't want us around.

And sorry, I have never been banned nor suspended. And again, I am also not F2P.
You are stuck with me! :D

Of course, unless U20 rolls with this... then you can dance with joy with how all these people are gone. I am just really not sure if Turbine will be dancing with the same tune.

2pleasegimmie
10-19-2013, 03:24 PM
You do not have to pay ONE PENNY MORE to TR after this change.

Run the Sagas.

This protest is because people that are NOT VIP do not want to have to buy content to TR.

You can be cheap or you can be lazy, but you can no longer be both.

I think it is a great idea.

Who says teabaggers don't play D&D???

Chauncey1
10-19-2013, 03:32 PM
Who says teabaggers don't play D&D???

Aaaaaaand thread lock in 3...2...

Ya just had to go there, dintcha?

RedOrm
10-19-2013, 03:33 PM
Aaand to get back on topic, the Update 20 Killed Me guild now has over 50 members. Not bad for a few hours!
I just wish the reason for all this wasn't so idiotic it never should have been suggested never mind taken seriously...

Greetz,
Red Orm

enochiancub
10-19-2013, 03:34 PM
Who says teabaggers don't play D&D???

What does teabagger mean? I have seen it used many times, but any time I google it I only encounter a bunch of American propaganda.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 03:36 PM
Protest is still HIGHLY suspect

That's for sure - especially for Realists^^

Not sure, but do you always stick to the wrong way (changes to TR) to get to your target (Reincarnation)? It seems this way, otherwise you won't defend an obviously doubtful way the majority of playerbase worries about as vehement as you did and do in this thread. That Reincarnation is not on Lama yet doesn't change anything regarding the way it shall be accessible in future.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:37 PM
I don't think that a connection can be drawn between the two events.

Most of the people supporting this are people who TR on a regular basis. Most people who TR regularly are the ones who have invested a lot of time (And often money.) into the game

Once again, the people who are upset are the ones who have devoted a lot of time and money into the game. Why would they want to see it burn? That makes no sense.

This does seem to be an issue that is getting a lot of attention from the player-base. I doubt it will destroy the game but it has the potential to affect it profoundly.

If the developers make such huge, overwhelming changes in the face of the kind of resistance seen with SWG and now this, you should blame them for going against the wishes of their player base. Microsoft made the same arrogant mistake with Windows 8. In any business you need to listen to your customers, and failure to do so is the fault of the business, not the fault of the customers.

I see overwhelming condemnation of the new system by the vast majority of the folks who have learned about it.

Everything is subject to change. Turbine has a history of ignoring player feedback with regards to game play changes.

What would you suggest?

1. Oh, there is a connection, trust me. One of my guildies was banned (rightfully), and he just got back yesterday. I am sure others did as well. The timing could not be more suspect. Look at my post history, you will see I was right in proclaiming 5 to 7 day bans for many, despite what Tolero said. Those bans end, MASSIVE PROTEST. Highly suspicious. Rabble-rousing.

2. NOBODY can say with any degree of certainty WHO most of the people are. It's all guesswork.

3. The thing about SWG was, they really improved the game, but nobody cared, they just wanted to complain. They didn't even TRY the changes, they just crashed a server then rage-quit. Bio-Engineering alone was worth all the other changes. About 6 mos. before the end, IMO the game was in it's most complete and playable state ever. Didn't matter, the rabble-rousers had done their damage, and it was irreversible.

4. I would suggest not future-tripping. Make your opinion known on the live and lamma forums, then wait till it hits live. If it is still disagreeable when it goes live, make a forum post about it, or if it's a serious enough issue, stop giving them your money. Choose a way that does not disrupt the gaming of others. Imagine a new player trying to run Sharn on Wayfinder right now...

Marcus-Hawkeye
10-19-2013, 03:38 PM
I am a realist, and I understand that things change, and sometimes I do not like the change, but sometimes I learn to like them.


I identify with this remark. Most things people have argued about over my time here, I haven't seen the need. I've accepted the changes and adjusted whatever I needed to adjust to continue playing happily.

However, for me, the numbers shown to be involved with this change are just ludicrous. That is my issue with this change.

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 03:38 PM
What does teabagger mean? I have seen it used many times, but any time I google it I only encounter a bunch of American propaganda.

^^This. :/

Maybe about people who drink tea?

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:40 PM
If these changes cause players to leave en mass. Kinda defeats the purpose I'd say.

I personally would lose no sleep over those 100 people being gone forever.

I would bet that fully half of them are either minimally invested, or multibox accounts.

50 troublemakers gone = better community.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 03:40 PM
Also, the majority of players do not actually read the forums. They are busy playing and having fun.

Apparently not busy enough, as we now have people coming to join the protest through word of mouth from other servers.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 03:42 PM
I personally would lose no sleep over those 100 people being gone forever.

I would bet that fully half of them are either minimally invested, or multibox accounts.

50 troublemakers gone = better community.

... Well, so much for not making assumption over statistic as well.

bartosy
10-19-2013, 03:43 PM
^^This. :/

Teabagging if i am correct wich i think i am is an action
That was created in halo where after you shot somebody
You can crouch your character in such a way in the face of your
Dead oponent...

Well i let you fill in the blanks yourself.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 03:44 PM
I would bet that fully half of them are either minimally invested, or multibox accounts.
Indeed, people like Memnir are minimally invested and don't care for the game. Stop speaking nonsense.

On that note, why don't YOU show us how much you've invested, or why you care about this other than being a buddy to the devs?


These people in the thread and on the bridge are some of the long-time, biggest-paying customers Turbine will have trouble replacing. And this time they're riled up more than I've ever seen.

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 03:45 PM
Teabagging if i am correct wich i think i am is an action
That was created in halo where after you shot somebody
You can crouch your character in such a way in the face of your
Dead oponent...

Well i let you fill in the blanks yourself.

Never played halo.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:45 PM
This game will not be financially solvent if the changes go through as is. Increasing the amount of grind required to do a TR by TWO orders of magnitude is simply not okay. Do you see how many people are on wayfinder or are in the guild? There have been hundreds of people stopping by over the course of two days. A lot of these people are very active players who spend a lot of money on the game, through experience potions, otto boxes etc.

Personally, I have made turbine roughly ~$10,000 over the course of 2-3 years. How much money have you made turbine? It is outrageous that you come in here to talk about financial viability when you've contributed less than 0.01% compared to all the people who are extremely upset about this lunacy.

I will be quitting if the changes go through as is.

You hit the nail on the head. XP pots and Otto's Boxes. WAYS TO BYPASS HAVING TO PLAY CONTENT. Shortcuts. Now they are protesting having their shortcut paved over by a highway.

Claiming that you spent 3300$ a year on this product, then raging that it's gonna take 15$ to TR is absurd.

Qhualor
10-19-2013, 03:46 PM
wait a second. is somebody actually trying to connect duping exploit bannings to the up coming changes of how to acquire hearts of wood? LOL! the changes have been in the process for months already and we are just now hearing about it because it just hit Lamma.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:48 PM
I agree with this 100%. However, companies need to work on striking a balance between monetization and alienating their player-base. If they chase too many customers away they will need to find more intrusive means of monetization which will force more players away. It will turn into a vicious circle where nobody wins.

They would do well to sacrifice a few pennies now for longer term financial stability.

Maybe people should be complaining about the price of True Hearts....

Also, they could totally be using this time to farm tokens NOW, and turning them in for true hearts.

The protest is stupid, and counterproductive.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 03:50 PM
Claiming that you spent 3300$ a year on this product, then raging that it's gonna take 15$ to TR is absurd.

No it's not. I may go to a posh restaurant if I want, but I'd spit in the waiter's face if he decided to charge me for using their silverware.


Maybe people should be complaining about the price of True Hearts....

Also, they could totally be using this time to farm tokens NOW, and turning them in for true hearts.

The protest is stupid, and counterproductive.

You're missing the big picture. The problem is just the final straw, and it's the overall attitude and ruthless monetization that riles people up. Why would anyone farm anything in a game they would likely quit if nothing changes?

Chauncey1
10-19-2013, 03:51 PM
I personally would lose no sleep over those 100 people being gone forever.

I would bet that fully half of them are either minimally invested, or multibox accounts.

50 troublemakers gone = better community.

Yeah...wow.
Oooookaaaaaay...
You just keep on believing that, Sunshine.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 03:51 PM
Maybe people should be complaining about the price of True Hearts....

Also, they could totally be using this time to farm tokens NOW, and turning them in for true hearts.

The protest is stupid, and counterproductive.

Speaking about stupid protest and counterproductive... you know, you keep saying that we are small fries and will amount to nothing... because we are clearly terrible dupers and previous banned members.

What are YOU doing here? If you don't enjoy this thread, you can leave us to our misery and then when **** drops on us, you wouldn't even notice!

Or are you actually afraid that we are going to do something terrible to Turbine? In that case, we are clearly not just 100 players that are about to be culled off in your head...

Hmmmmm...

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:52 PM
It also was a bunch of paid, high educated professionals working on it, who brought us the financial crisis. Think about this.

In fact realists are the willing footsoldiers, they never dare to have a system-critical opinion, because it's the actual system that made them realists-regarding-how-the-system-works. Doubting the system or any aspects of it leads to uncertainness, which a realist barely can stand. Think about this too.

1. Circular logic is circular.

2. This is not an economy, nor a democracy.

3. I am a U.S. Army Vet. 82nd Airborne, C. Co. 1/504th PIR. I fought for the right to voice my opinion on things that matter.

4. This doesn't matter.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 03:52 PM
You hit the nail on the head. XP pots and Otto's Boxes. WAYS TO BYPASS HAVING TO PLAY CONTENT. Shortcuts. Now they are protesting having their shortcut paved over by a highway.

Claiming that you spent 3300$ a year on this product, then raging that it's gonna take 15$ to TR is absurd.

Someone telling others how they should spend their money is absurd.

AtomicMew
10-19-2013, 03:52 PM
You hit the nail on the head. XP pots and Otto's Boxes. WAYS TO BYPASS HAVING TO PLAY CONTENT. Shortcuts. Now they are protesting having their shortcut paved over by a highway.

Claiming that you spent 3300$ a year on this product, then raging that it's gonna take 15$ to TR is absurd.

It's not absurd, it's just you being you and not being able to understand anyone else's opinion but your own.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 03:54 PM
4. This doesn't matter.

Then why are you still voicing your opinion?

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:54 PM
You are assuming the only reason people TR is to get completionist. That is wrong. I know one guy in game on his 32 life, all 32 of which were the same class. He does not have comletionist. I know many like him. I am one of them. I couldn't care about completionist, I just want to go back to level 1 and play the quests I like again. Why are you so against this?

I used to live across the street from this guy with a purple and yellow house. It was SO ugly.

People do weird stuff sometimes, because they are weird people.

If you are trying to claim this is normal....

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 03:56 PM
I used to live across the street from this guy with a purple and yellow house. It was SO ugly.

People do weird stuff sometimes, because they are weird people.

If you are trying to claim this is normal....

Being the only person on the entire forums arguing your side makes you the guy in the purple and yellow house.

blackdae
10-19-2013, 03:57 PM
You are going to complete Sagas ANYWAY, because you are going to want to farm the rewards.

What rewards? Saga rewards? You won't be able to get other rewards than the commendations..


You would be wrong. I work for a living. Completionists LIVE in DDO.

This is not true.. I started my "long term completionist project" kinda 2 years ago and I'm only at 7th life.. Not really a "DDO life"..


Oh and nobody is FORCING you to do anything, because TR IS NOT REQUIRED FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN EGO.

Surely I don't do it for ego.. I like DDO and even if I hoped to like NWO (to get rid from this "Stokholm Syndrome") I'm still here.. with nothing to do but TR my toon.. Because I'm still in love with this messy game.. I bought both the expansion and I managed to play 2 Wheelon quests and explore both the areas alone 'cause nobody runs them.. I like to play through all content, but if I have to play for months only some chains over and over and over.. well.. no thanks..
If I take 2-4 months to TR a toon and 5-6 months to get a Heart, I'm sure I'll go back to read books instead of playing DDO O_o

I really thinks this change will destroy the game for good, at least if it stay like this.. 17 comms for an entire saga? No way I'm gonna do it..

EDIT:

I would bet that fully half of them are either minimally invested, or multibox accounts.

I've been VIP for a 1 1/2 year when I started play, then I bought almost everything (but Restless and Cannith challenges).. I also bought my first Heart 'cause me and my friends (that left all between MotU and U19) were scared about Epics :)


You hit the nail on the head. XP pots and Otto's Boxes. WAYS TO BYPASS HAVING TO PLAY CONTENT. Shortcuts. Now they are protesting having their shortcut paved over by a highway.

Never bought an XP pot or Box..

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 03:58 PM
3. I am a U.S. Army Vet. 82nd Airborne, C. Co. 1/504th PIR. I fought for the right to voice my opinion on things that matter.

A footsoldier in reality. Wow, didn't thought about getting that close :D

I guess you'd be the first one to break up the "riots" on Wayfinder? (Please say yes, gnihihi)

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 03:58 PM
While you speak some truth right there as I agree with a couple of points, when it comes to heroic TR it's still not a change that has to be made. Why make something that exist simply harder to get or even out of reach as a goal to be set to others.

Also while I don't play much atm, when I do it's a constant TRing train and I didn't mind to buy a couple hearts when I spent all the ones I had from epic tokens or I didn't wanna farm that one life. Knowing that i'd HAVE TO pay for every single TRs (that's 3-4 a month) would be a discouraging factor to even consider re-engaging myself in the game once I can spare the time to do so because I don't wanna run epics till my eyes bleed. I've done it for months, I didn't like it, I now know I don't like it... overall it's just no fun at all for me.

You can divide the number of hearts by 2 as I'd get at the very least 1/2 of it from favor (maybe not actually). But then again, will I use a 30+% pots at that one crucial moment I know I can gather crazy exp by chaining quest? Most likely.

I will not comment on anything beside the mechanic that I feel is endangered since... yeah. I guess i'm the one who derailed, i'm totally blind to that occupy thingy. My head won't resolve to take it seriously and I hope it's just a mirage hehe. Nonetheless, the message behind needs to be heard till a confirmation of change has been made.

The why is simple: MONEY.

The game is bleeding to death.

I just spent 20$ more on TP, and will spend more again soon.

I support what I like.

susiedupfer
10-19-2013, 03:59 PM
Uhm, guys...this is the weekend. How many producers and devs do you think are going to witness the protest on Wayfinder? I don't like the changes any more than you do, but if I were going to do something like a protest, I would start about Monday.

RedOrm
10-19-2013, 03:59 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JWdI8aKt8dk/ThRkkgjlyvI/AAAAAAAAAUY/arLCIieDxNM/s1600/DontFeedTheTroll.jpg

Please?

Greetz,
Red Orm

Postumus
10-19-2013, 04:00 PM
Being the only person on the entire forums arguing your side makes you the guy in the purple and yellow house.


He's a Laker's fan?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsjAD9dXVgw

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 04:01 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JWdI8aKt8dk/ThRkkgjlyvI/AAAAAAAAAUY/arLCIieDxNM/s1600/DontFeedTheTroll.jpg

Please?

Greetz,
Red Orm

I don't think he is a troll sadly.

But...

HE IS SO CUTE AND ADORABLE. CAN WE NOT KEEP HIM FOR THIS THREAD'S POPULARITY? D:

Qhualor
10-19-2013, 04:02 PM
I personally would lose no sleep over those 100 people being gone forever.

I would bet that fully half of them are either minimally invested, or multibox accounts.

50 troublemakers gone = better community.

how much money do I need to spend to be taken seriously when I say I probably will quit because of this change. if I quit and some of my other friends because of this change, or consider it as a last straw, how many friends of friends decide to quit because their friends aren't playing anymore? when the community is still a bit riled up because of the recent exploit, no end game, ED grind and boring random loot and than to say its going to take 150 something quests in sagas to get a BTC heart of wood or spend $15 to top it all off theres going to be a big chain reaction. the community has been riled up a lot lately with no time to really cool down. I cant pull facts out of my arse like you can but I bet this change is causing an earthquake for Turbine. its quite apparent with forums lit up talking mostly about this change and all kinds of talk in game.

Ungood
10-19-2013, 04:02 PM
I don't consider this a protest, I consider this a showing of solidarity.

Which, is something Turbine really should take into consideration, that a bunch of "gamers" just rallied to show they are getting fed up. If this is not a wake up call to Turbine that they need to revise their tactics and direction of this game overall nothing ever will be.

Logging in to "Not play", never thought I would see the day, or be a part of it, yet, here I am.

Chauncey1
10-19-2013, 04:03 PM
I don't consider this a protest, I consider this a showing of solidarity.

Which, is something Turbine really should take into consideration, that a bunch of "gamers" just rallied to show they are getting fed up. If this is not a wake up call to Turbine that they need to revise their tactics and direction of this game overall nothing ever will be.

Logging in to "Not play", never thought I would see the day, or be a part of it, yet, here I am.

I am in accord with your statement.

Postumus
10-19-2013, 04:04 PM
Oh and nobody is FORCING you to do anything, because TR IS NOT REQUIRED FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN EGO.


Well some of us like to TR because we find it FUN. Eliminating a source of fun is never, well, fun.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:05 PM
... First, no one is actually breaking the law... well. Actually. You don't care about that, do you? You just have such a terrible impression of us!
Have you also suggested your permaban and culling of the herds to the professionals you have met? You totally should. I have a feeling you'd meet with some great approval if you are right that Turbine doesn't want us around.

And sorry, I have never been banned nor suspended. And again, I am also not F2P.
You are stuck with me! :D

Of course, unless U20 rolls with this... then you can dance with joy with how all these people are gone. I am just really not sure if Turbine will be dancing with the same tune.

I met Tolero, Eladrin, and Fernando at PAX Seattle a while back. They are really nice, and really do want what's best for this game. They love it and want it to succeed. They get excited about new things. They want us to be happy.

What people like you fail to realize is that the damage to the community that things like this do is far more likely to have long-term, happy players leave for a nicer community. COMMUNITY, not MOB. God forbid there is a write-up about this in trade publications. This is what the real trouble makers want. Permanent damage. I see you as a dupe, who fell for their plot, and bought the propaganda.

Staging protests and trying to crash servers is in direct violation of the EULA (the law of this land).

Anric
10-19-2013, 04:06 PM
I am most definitely NOT having fun with this thread.
I find it highly suspect that this is happening after a large banning.
I think people like being part of something big, even if that something big is stupid.
I think this is getting a lot of support from people with no investment in the game.
I think that some people are determined to see this game burn, and will go to any lengths to do so.
I think there is no way that THIS is the issue that is going to ruin everything. Combat changes were much more far-reaching.
I see huge parallels between this and what happened with Star Wars Galaxies, a bunch of whiners unwilling to change ruining it for everyone.
I see the same 5-10 VERY VOCAL people stirring up trouble.
I understand that it is ALL subject to change.
I think there are better ways to go about being heard.

You'd be wrong on all accounts

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 04:07 PM
Uhm, guys...this is the weekend. How many producers and devs do you think are going to witness the protest on Wayfinder? I don't like the changes any more than you do, but if I were going to do something like a protest, I would start about Monday.

The protest is just a symbol, a visual representation to put the complaints in perspective.

Anric
10-19-2013, 04:07 PM
I met Tolero, Eladrin, and Fernando at PAX Seattle a while back. They are really nice, and really do want what's best for this game. They love it and want it to succeed. They get excited about new things. They want us to be happy.

What people like you fail to realize is that the damage to the community that things like this do is far more likely to have long-term, happy players leave for a nicer community. COMMUNITY, not MOB. God forbid there is a write-up about this in trade publications. This is what the real trouble makers want. Permanent damage. I see you as a dupe, who fell for their plot, and bought the propaganda.

Staging protests and trying to crash servers is in direct violation of the EULA (the law of this land).

And you do not realize the the damage to this game once this update goes live. Ever seen a nuclear fallout? I think this will be worse.

Ungood
10-19-2013, 04:08 PM
I am a U.S. Army Vet. 82nd Airborne, C. Co. 1/504th PIR. I fought for the right for Everyone to voice Their opinion on things that matter to them.

FTFY:

And here you are telling people to shut up and go home, you just disrespected everyone that stood beside you or died for the freedom to speak out against what they don't like.

And here's your wake up call, If it did not matter to you, you would not -still- be posting here.

Qhualor
10-19-2013, 04:08 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JWdI8aKt8dk/ThRkkgjlyvI/AAAAAAAAAUY/arLCIieDxNM/s1600/DontFeedTheTroll.jpg

Please?

Greetz,
Red Orm

if hes a fanbois, he needs to take lessons from Thrudh. at least he can make a sensible argument defending Turbine. if hes a troll than he needs to take lesson from The Troll because at least he can be funny when hes trying to be serious.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:09 PM
That's for sure - especially for Realists^^

Not sure, but do you always stick to the wrong way (changes to TR) to get to your target (Reincarnation)? It seems this way, otherwise you won't defend an obviously doubtful way the majority of playerbase worries about as vehement as you did and do in this thread. That Reincarnation is not on Lama yet doesn't change anything regarding the way it shall be accessible in future.

If they want to test saga completions, new NPCs, etc., but NOT allow the comms to be redeemed, what better way to gate it than to make the number of comms needed unrealisticly high?

Sounds like common sense to me...

Something the protesters are highly lacking.

susiedupfer
10-19-2013, 04:09 PM
I don't consider this a protest, I consider this a showing of solidarity.

Which, is something Turbine really should take into consideration, that a bunch of "gamers" just rallied to show they are getting fed up. If this is not a wake up call to Turbine that they need to revise their tactics and direction of this game overall nothing ever will be.

Logging in to "Not play", never thought I would see the day, or be a part of it, yet, here I am.

You know, I get it. I really think that Turbine is shooting itself in the foot with this decision. I really do. I think that way more of their income derives from people TR'ing than they realize. And I think they are going to see a decided dip in income when this goes live. I, for one, will not be buying any more pots for TR lives. If they are going to make me suffer through epic sagas with each TR, then I am in no big hurry to TR, so no need for more pots.

However, I am simply pointing out that the show of solidarity should take place when and where they can actually see it. You do know they drop these bombs on Friday for a reason, right? So that everyone is nice and calm when the bosses show up on Monday. I am not saying that you guys are wrong. I am just saying that maybe you need to save the anger for a time when they can't help but notice.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 04:10 PM
Logging in to "Not play", never thought I would see the day, or be a part of it, yet, here I am.

This maybe is the most impressive thing about it. The "not playing" lasts since 17 hours now. Simply amazing and a much more weighty statement than not logging in at all.

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 04:12 PM
Staging protests and trying to crash servers is in direct violation of the EULA (the law of this land).

Nobody is trying to crash anything. Also you can't just say "violation of the EULA", please provide a quote with the specific provision and we can discuss whether it applies.



However, I am simply pointing out that the show of solidarity should take place when and where they can actually see it. You do know they drop these bombs on Friday for a reason, right? So that everyone is nice and calm when the bosses show up on Monday. I am not saying that you guys are wrong. I am just saying that maybe you need to save the anger for a time when they can't help but notice.
You're right, and some of this will blow over (most notably since people have to work starting Monday), but I don't think this time everyone will calm down this easily.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 04:12 PM
I met Tolero, Eladrin, and Fernando at PAX Seattle a while back. They are really nice, and really do want what's best for this game. They love it and want it to succeed. They get excited about new things. They want us to be happy.

What people like you fail to realize is that the damage to the community that things like this do is far more likely to have long-term, happy players leave for a nicer community. COMMUNITY, not MOB. God forbid there is a write-up about this in trade publications. This is what the real trouble makers want. Permanent damage. I see you as a dupe, who fell for their plot, and bought the propaganda.

Staging protests and trying to crash servers is in direct violation of the EULA (the law of this land).

Actually, we chose the most unpopulated server to protest in.

And duped or not, I find their cause a good one. So, I am sorry that I am willing to be duped to stand with the crowd. :p

And no one is crashing servers yet. Again, making assumptions -- a lot of it! By the way, I thought you said we were just small fries? If we are that minor, you literally wouldn't even have to worry about the server crashing. Surely the server can take 100 characters just loitering around in the server! That's what the instances are for, right?

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:12 PM
Indeed, people like Memnir are minimally invested and don't care for the game. Stop speaking nonsense.

On that note, why don't YOU show us how much you've invested, or why you care about this other than being a buddy to the devs?

These people in the thread and on the bridge are some of the long-time, biggest-paying customers Turbine will have trouble replacing. And this time they're riled up more than I've ever seen.

Frankly, his involvement astonishes me. He knows it's just Lamma, and that things change, better than most of us.

I think he may just be jaded by recent events.

Common sense states those requirements will change, and are only there to gate access to the new hearts.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:16 PM
No it's not. I may go to a posh restaurant if I want, but I'd spit in the waiter's face if he decided to charge me for using their silverware.
You're missing the big picture. The problem is just the final straw, and it's the overall attitude and ruthless monetization that riles people up. Why would anyone farm anything in a game they would likely quit if nothing changes?

Your analogy is flawed.
First off, the waiter doesn't make the prices, so you are just being a jerk.
Second, he is telling you that anything from the dessert tray costs 15$.

It's a game. YOU are missing the big picture.

Qhualor
10-19-2013, 04:16 PM
yep logging in to not play means not buying anything from the store and people who are trying to play will log off or eventually get tired of standing around or soloing. this creates a bigger impact on the game that we still care to play. but we have had enough of the in your face money grab schemes and senseless grind. what does it matter if I don't play today when tomorrow I could be quitting anyways if changes aren't made? I think this is bigger than a few years ago when the divines went on strike.

Havok.cry
10-19-2013, 04:19 PM
Common sense states those requirements will change, and are only there to gate access to the new hearts.

I was under the impression that the hearts were not available at all. That is what the devs and the release notes stated. If true then your statement has no common sense applied to it at all, as gating access to something that is not there is not really an intelligent use of time and resources.

Edit: Never mind, just re-read the release notes and it doesn't say they removed them on lam. They should have, as that would be a much simpler way of doing it and would have avoided alot of this if what you said was there intention.

If they ARE using this to gate the hearts, then they aren't using much common sense anyway.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:22 PM
A footsoldier in reality. Wow, didn't thought about getting that close :D

I guess you'd be the first one to break up the "riots" on Wayfinder? (Please say yes, gnihihi)

With relish and abandon.

Liberal use of tear gas.

People riot because they have no respect for rules or community.

No honor, no morals, no principals, just ME, ME, ME.

No thought for the terrified little girl who just wants to go to school, no thought for the elderly man who paid taxes his whole life who just got his TV stolen.

Yeah, in a heartbeat.

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 04:24 PM
I don't consider this a protest, I consider this a showing of solidarity.

Which, is something Turbine really should take into consideration, that a bunch of "gamers" just rallied to show they are getting fed up. If this is not a wake up call to Turbine that they need to revise their tactics and direction of this game overall nothing ever will be.

Logging in to "Not play", never thought I would see the day, or be a part of it, yet, here I am.

Heh, you are doing it for the hugs and the dancing. I saw you. ;)

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:24 PM
how much money do I need to spend to be taken seriously when I say I probably will quit because of this change. if I quit and some of my other friends because of this change, or consider it as a last straw, how many friends of friends decide to quit because their friends aren't playing anymore? when the community is still a bit riled up because of the recent exploit, no end game, ED grind and boring random loot and than to say its going to take 150 something quests in sagas to get a BTC heart of wood or spend $15 to top it all off theres going to be a big chain reaction. the community has been riled up a lot lately with no time to really cool down. I cant pull facts out of my arse like you can but I bet this change is causing an earthquake for Turbine. its quite apparent with forums lit up talking mostly about this change and all kinds of talk in game.

Check your post history, dude, all you do is complain.

You were on your way out LONG AGO.

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 04:25 PM
I met Tolero, Eladrin, and Fernando at PAX Seattle a while back. They are really nice, and really do want what's best for this game. They love it and want it to succeed. They get excited about new things. They want us to be happy.

What people like you fail to realize is that the damage to the community that things like this do is far more likely to have long-term, happy players leave for a nicer community. COMMUNITY, not MOB. God forbid there is a write-up about this in trade publications. This is what the real trouble makers want. Permanent damage. I see you as a dupe, who fell for their plot, and bought the propaganda.

Staging protests and trying to crash servers is in direct violation of the EULA (the law of this land).

Conspiracy theory much?

Postumus
10-19-2013, 04:25 PM
People riot because they have no respect for rules or community.

No honor, no morals, no principals, just ME, ME, ME.





What is "something Qaddafi said two years ago" Alex!


Or were you referring to Syria?

Ausdoerrt
10-19-2013, 04:25 PM
It's a game. YOU are missing the big picture.

It's a game i like. And I'll make **** sure I do everything I can to prevent it from being ruined before I decide to let it go.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:26 PM
I don't consider this a protest, I consider this a showing of solidarity.

Which, is something Turbine really should take into consideration, that a bunch of "gamers" just rallied to show they are getting fed up. If this is not a wake up call to Turbine that they need to revise their tactics and direction of this game overall nothing ever will be.

Logging in to "Not play", never thought I would see the day, or be a part of it, yet, here I am.

100 people, on a weekend, right after people got off a ban.

Let's not try and make this something it isn't.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:29 PM
Well some of us like to TR because we find it FUN. Eliminating a source of fun is never, well, fun.

So TRing is fun, but running quests is not?

Please explain.

Nobody is eliminating TR, in fact there are more ways to reincarnate.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 04:29 PM
If they want to test saga completions, new NPCs, etc., but NOT allow the comms to be redeemed, what better way to gate it than to make the number of comms needed unrealisticly high?

Reincarnation currently is blocked on Lama. You cannot do it. Why block something AND set the number of comms needed to reincarnate unrealistic high? That makes no sense.

What makes sense instead is blocking Reincarnation but keeping the requirements as they are intended. And that is what we face today. And that is why the Bridge of Resistance still is crowded with players.

Chauncey1
10-19-2013, 04:30 PM
100 people, on a weekend, right after people got off a ban.

Let's not try and make this something it isn't.

You assume quite a bit.

And you are projecting like a multi-plex cinema.

Qhualor
10-19-2013, 04:32 PM
100 people, on a weekend, right after people got off a ban.

Let's not try and make this something it isn't.

please do not use tinfoil hats if you don't know how to properly wear one.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:32 PM
FTFY:

And here you are telling people to shut up and go home, you just disrespected everyone that stood beside you or died for the freedom to speak out against what they don't like.

And here's your wake up call, If it did not matter to you, you would not -still- be posting here.

It's a video game.

It is not important.

Life is important. Senseless war, the economy, disease, poverty, all important.

I never told anyone to shut up and go home.

How dare you even equate the two.

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 04:33 PM
With relish and abandon.

Liberal use of tear gas.

People riot because they have no respect for rules or community.

No honor, no morals, no principals, just ME, ME, ME.

No thought for the terrified little girl who just wants to go to school, no thought for the elderly man who paid taxes his whole life who just got his TV stolen.

Yeah, in a heartbeat.

Which military were you in again? 1939 Germany? I would think a U.S. military person would be aware of the role of protests in the birth, and growth, of that nation.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:34 PM
FTFY:

And here you are telling people to shut up and go home, you just disrespected everyone that stood beside you or died for the freedom to speak out against what they don't like.

And here's your wake up call, If it did not matter to you, you would not -still- be posting here.

Also, there are plenty of NON-Americans in DDO, ask around.

I didn't fight for ANY of their rights.

In fact, I may have fought AGAINST some of them.

Let's hope you never have to protest something that is ACTUALLY important.

Postumus
10-19-2013, 04:35 PM
3. I am a U.S. Army Vet. 82nd Airborne, C. Co. 1/504th PIR. I fought for the right to voice my opinion on things that matter.



Isn't it true that army accepts lower ASVAB (http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/asvab-afqt-qualifying-scores.html) scores than any other branch of service?

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:36 PM
You know, I get it. I really think that Turbine is shooting itself in the foot with this decision. I really do. I think that way more of their income derives from people TR'ing than they realize. And I think they are going to see a decided dip in income when this goes live. I, for one, will not be buying any more pots for TR lives. If they are going to make me suffer through epic sagas with each TR, then I am in no big hurry to TR, so no need for more pots.

However, I am simply pointing out that the show of solidarity should take place when and where they can actually see it. You do know they drop these bombs on Friday for a reason, right? So that everyone is nice and calm when the bosses show up on Monday. I am not saying that you guys are wrong. I am just saying that maybe you need to save the anger for a time when they can't help but notice.

You think they don't have HIGHLY ACCURATE financial figures?

They know what they are doing full well.

MartinusWyllt
10-19-2013, 04:36 PM
It's a video game.

It is not important.

Life is important. Senseless war, the economy, disease, poverty, all important.

I never told anyone to shut up and go home.

How dare you even equate the two.

You're the one that chose to drop a veteran card and pretend this privately-owned forum is the town square and there's some kind of first amendment infringement going on.

Postumus
10-19-2013, 04:38 PM
Which military were you in again? 1939 Germany? I would think a U.S. military person would be aware of the role of protests in the birth, and growth, of that nation.


Yes an actual veteran would be aware of the War of Independence. But perhaps not the Boston Massacre. (which was essentially a riot).

Postumus
10-19-2013, 04:39 PM
So TRing is fun, but running quests is not?

Please explain.




The two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they go hand in hand.

MaxxieDemon
10-19-2013, 04:41 PM
Guys, as much as I am just as incredulous about uncleblue... I highly suspect this is going out of hand. Let's go back into the matter and just ignore him. He stopped being fun when he decided to bring military and politics into the thread.

Besides, I honestly believe military -- no matter what branch -- deserves a bit of our respect, no matter what rights they fought for. So, whether IF uncleblue is an actual veteran, let's just ease off of him for that.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 04:42 PM
With relish and abandon.

Liberal use of tear gas.

People riot because they have no respect for rules or community.

No honor, no morals, no principals, just ME, ME, ME.

No thought for the terrified little girl who just wants to go to school, no thought for the elderly man who paid taxes his whole life who just got his TV stolen.

Yeah, in a heartbeat.

Lol, you're so funny. Please stay here and keep up the good work. still lmao xD

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 04:44 PM
The original plan for Epic Reincarnation included wiping ED's. The protest against that burned far longer than the weekend, and Turbine noticed. They changed the plan.

Moral: Our opinion does matter, when it is clearly reflected by the majority.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:49 PM
Isn't it true that army accepts lower ASVAB (http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/asvab-afqt-qualifying-scores.html) scores than any other branch of service?

I scored a 99.

But yes, it's probably true.

I am sure you will try to equate that with me being stupid, but what you are going to do is upset a lot of Army vets.

Have fun with that.

Qhualor
10-19-2013, 04:50 PM
Reading this thread and seeing people basically compare this nonsense to the Civil Rights movement/protests has convinced me I need to stop playing. Time to try and find something more productive to do.

No you can't haz my stuff because your nonsensical "occupy movement" is pathetic. I wish I had video of the devs/Turbine openly laughing at how moronic a segment of the player base really is.

Thanks for playing.

/wave

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:51 PM
You're the one that chose to drop a veteran card and pretend this privately-owned forum is the town square and there's some kind of first amendment infringement going on.

I was trying to frame the ACTUAL "big picture".

ALL video games could disappear tomorrow, and it would not be important.

Be thankful that your life is so full of serenity and peace (you are welcome) that you can come whine on this forum.

Chauncey1
10-19-2013, 04:52 PM
Guys, as much as I am just as incredulous about uncleblue... I highly suspect this is going out of hand. Let's go back into the matter and just ignore him. He stopped being fun when he decided to bring military and politics into the thread.

Besides, I honestly believe military -- no matter what branch -- deserves a bit of our respect, no matter what rights they fought for. So, whether IF uncleblue is an actual veteran, let's just ease off of him for that.

Agreed.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:53 PM
Yes an actual veteran would be aware of the War of Independence. But perhaps not the Boston Massacre. (which was essentially a riot).

So you think all military personnel are well versed in military and political history?

And you think I am not a vet?

I like you, you are funny.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:54 PM
The two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they go hand in hand.

My point exactly.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 04:57 PM
Thanks for playing.

/wave

And this is the attitude, right there.

No care for the community, no thought to how your actions affect others.

Even a little joy at causing grief.

Sad and pathetic.

Scope333
10-19-2013, 05:01 PM
And this is the attitude, right there.

No care for the community, no thought to how your actions affect others.

Even a little joy at causing grief.

Sad and pathetic.

Don't be too hard on him Blue, he has almost 5,000 posts. The game is clearly VERY important to him.

uncleblue
10-19-2013, 05:05 PM
Don't be too hard on him Blue, he has almost 5,000 posts. The game is clearly VERY important to him.

I totally snarfed water out my nose.

STOP MAKING ME LAUGH, THIS IS SERIOUS!!!

I was totally going to spend all of this day off playing, and avoiding housework.

I am hoping what I have done instead was better.

Thank you for making it less painful.

Lanhelin
10-19-2013, 05:07 PM
18 hours and no end in sight :)

http://s7.directupload.net/images/131020/4kjjf75y.jpg (http://www.directupload.net)

Scope333
10-19-2013, 05:07 PM
I totally snarfed water out my nose.

STOP MAKING ME LAUGH, THIS IS SERIOUS!!!

I agree. Meet me on the marketplace bridge in Khyber so we can protest the protestors .....

Tscheuss
10-19-2013, 05:08 PM
And this is the attitude, right there.

No care for the community, no thought to how your actions affect others.

Even a little joy at causing grief.

Sad and pathetic.

Don't be too hard on him Blue, he has almost 5,000 posts. The game is clearly VERY important to him.

How nice. You found a friend. :)

The biggest issue is the change to Heroic TR, or how to earn the Heart for it. The requirements for the other Hearts would not be enough to fire people up, since they are part and parcel of something new. Severely increasing the grind for the original TR, and possibly invalidating Tokens, is the core of this problem.

If the devs set the Comms required for an Heroic Heart to something equivalent to what they currently cost in Tokens, and if they provide an exchange or conversion recipe for Tokens to Comms, the main reason for our complaint is addressed.

Qhualor
10-19-2013, 05:08 PM
And this is the attitude, right there.

No care for the community, no thought to how your actions affect others.

Even a little joy at causing grief.

Sad and pathetic.

its ok that you don't know me. I forgive you. BTW, I am with a bunch of friends on a bridge in the MP on Wayfinder protesting the TR changes. what was that? I don't care about the community?

oh yeah, im also a vet too. USS Nimitz CVN 68 stationed in Bremerton, WA and retired in 1996. I was in Operation Desert Storm. what does that have to do with DDO?