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SqueakofDoom
10-18-2013, 09:05 AM
Hellos!

We just brought Lamannia down so we can add some more things! Lamannia should be back up around 2pm Eastern (GMT -4).

We will focus on the Update 20 Quests this week since Reincarnation is not yet ready for preview.

I'll update the Release Notes and Known Issues in a bit.

SirShen
10-18-2013, 10:26 AM
Hellos!

We just brought Lamannia down so we can add some more things! Lamannia should be back up around 2pm Eastern (GMT -4).

We will focus on the Update 20 Quests this week since Reincarnation is not yet ready for preview.

I'll update the Release Notes and Known Issues in a bit.

Is this update really going to be released this year?

Am i the only one worried that its not even ready for preview and its ment to be released in a few weeks?

Krelar
10-18-2013, 10:28 AM
Is this update really going to be released this year?

Im i the only one worried that its not even ready for preview and its ment to be released in a few weeks?

They could take almost 2 and a half months and still make this year.

Grosbeak07
10-18-2013, 10:28 AM
Is this update really going to be released this year?

Im i the only one worried that its not even ready for preview and its ment to be released in a few weeks?

Just under 2.5 months left. I'd say its a good bet.

sean3009
10-18-2013, 10:32 AM
Hellos!

We just brought Lamannia down so we can add some more things! Lamannia should be back up around 2pm Eastern (GMT -4).

We will focus on the Update 20 Quests this week since Reincarnation is not yet ready for preview.

I'll update the Release Notes and Known Issues in a bit.

does this mean that the ddo store will be filled with the new expansion items such as the iconic classes?

Therigar
10-18-2013, 10:40 AM
I just thought I'd pile on pointlessly and whine about the rising price of chocolate, among other things, since every evil in the world can be traced directly to Turbine or to me -- and I'd rather shift the blame.

I know Turbine has a history of not listening to what we say after we've played on Lamannia and that it has a history of releasing content only to go through several iterations of fixes. But, frankly, I'm happy with the overall progress that's been made.

The game continues to entertain me and that is the only criteria that I have for choosing to play. So if the content is released this year then great, if it has to be hot fixed/taken off line/updated then great, if it comes out next year instead then great -- just keep giving me more DDO so that I can continue to enjoy this game.

Thanks for the info on Lamannia. It saved me from hours of frustration while I figured out what was wrong with my computer (nothing as it turns out -- other than my piddling poor internet connection). BTW Turbine, I'm sure it is your fault that I live miles from nowhere and can't get decent internet service. When are you going to fix that, huh?

:D

thomascoolone64
10-18-2013, 11:43 AM
does this mean that the ddo store will be filled with the new expansion items such as the iconic classes?

I sure hope so man :)

Failedlegend
10-18-2013, 11:47 AM
Hmmmm...I guess I was wrong...the lammania dev tracker IS working the devs just haven't posted anything in a week (until this post) can't wait to see how they changed EK in response to the feedback.

KookieKobold
10-18-2013, 12:04 PM
Lamannia is back online!

Squeak will get updates to the release notes and known issues up shortly!


but for now, check out the second Update 20 quest in House Cannith!

Talbron is looking for a hand that only you can give!

burningwind
10-18-2013, 12:46 PM
Lamannia is back online!

Squeak will get updates to the release notes and known issues up shortly!


but for now, check out the second Update 20 quest in House Cannith!

Talbron is looking for a hand that only you can give!

can't wait to see the patch note...

edit: wish i haven't see it.. lol oh well..

Wizza
10-18-2013, 12:46 PM
Thank you for nothing. A whole update and got ZERO responses ON ABSOLUTE EVERYTHING.

That's some awesome work to avoid Lamannia!

thomascoolone64
10-18-2013, 12:46 PM
Hey kookie how long are you guys gonna keep lammainia online for?

SqueakofDoom
10-18-2013, 12:52 PM
Release Notes ('https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376774-Lamannia-Release-Notes-%28Last-Updated-10-18-2013%29?p=4503430#post4503430') and Known Issues ('https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376772-Lamannia-Known-Issues-%28Last-Updated-10-18-2013%29?p=4503425#post4503425') have been updated!

The Brothers of the Forge Survey ('https://d12.parature.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?type=web&deptID=24037&surveyID=264') has also been added to the Surveys Post ('https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/414630-Surveys!').

Scraap
10-18-2013, 01:21 PM
Gotta say the bag removal bit from guild chests is highly disappointing. We have about 3-4 of them in ours for things like scrolls, mats, and Cannith shards.

As for the hearts bit... You'll get piled-on for that one soon enough. Though you might mitigate the damage a bit by taking the suggestions from when sagas first rolled out and incorporating more of the epified content packs.

UurlockYgmeov
10-18-2013, 01:34 PM
Gotta say the bag removal bit from guild chests is highly disappointing. We have about 3-4 of them in ours for things like scrolls, mats, and Cannith shards.

As for the hearts bit... You'll get piled-on for that one soon enough. Though you might mitigate the damage a bit by taking the suggestions from when sagas first rolled out and incorporating more of the epified content packs.

agree on both!

plus - now must be VIP or own access to hall of heroes in order to reincarnate....

sad - F2P and premies - guess Turbine is telling you to go suck it.

UurlockYgmeov
10-18-2013, 01:36 PM
so - just put the heroic heart of wood in with Lahar and all will be good - plus need to put a reincarnate interface somewhere where F2P and premmies can get to it.

Satyriasys
10-18-2013, 01:43 PM
Still no fix for combat archery? Why? It's not even on the known issues list.

SqueakofDoom
10-18-2013, 02:01 PM
plus - now must be VIP or own access to hall of heroes in order to reincarnate....

You should not have to be VIP or own Hall of Heroes Teleportation (the "Transport to Eberron" or "Transport to Forgotten Realms" buttons in Character Selection) to access Hall of Heroes while in world.

Da_Most_Shady
10-18-2013, 02:09 PM
Could you provide us with more information about the comms for hearts? How many for each type of heart are needed? What difficulty do we need to complete sagas on to earn a comm? Are they BTC or BTA? That is the type of info that should be in the release notes.

Thanks.

Loromir
10-18-2013, 02:13 PM
Better spend all those epic tokens you have and stock up on Ture Hearts before U20.

Targal
10-18-2013, 02:47 PM
http://imageshack.us/a/img96/2459/g91q.jpg
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/6686/kvd5.jpg
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/5331/2cdl.jpg

After updating, the error happens at logging in the world or doing character creation. Is it only my problem?

I'll leave the error information.


Problem Signiture:
Error event name: APPCRASH
Program Name: dndclient.exe
Program Version: 2600.43.5474.8080
Program Timestamp: 525f5a86
Error Module Name: StackHash_9e33
Error Module Version: 6.1.7600.16915
Error Module Timestamp: 4ec49d10
Exception Code: c0000374
Exception Offset: 000ce903
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.1
??????(Local? Rokel?) ID: 1042
Additional Information 1: 9e33
Additional Information 2: 9e339f0649c8f2247bca00313df393d7
Additional Information 3: e542
Additional Information 4: e542b6b7d3500a761147c33cd622efeb

dejafu
10-18-2013, 02:50 PM
Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance:

NEW: The capstone has gained an Amaunator option:
Ascendancy: Bolt of the Sun:
Passive: You gain +2 Charisma and +2 to the Diplomacy and Spellcraft skills.
Active: You are able to cast the spell Sunbolt without using spell points.

Wow. That's a great SLA right there. Much better than the options for other deities, in fact (the Spellcraft bonus is probably the best skill bonus of the bunch, too).

As I'm never one to advocate nerfing one thing when you can safely buff something else, any chance for a dev review of the current SLA options for other Angels of Vengeance?

SqueakofDoom
10-18-2013, 03:07 PM
Could you provide us with more information about the comms for hearts? How many for each type of heart are needed? What difficulty do we need to complete sagas on to earn a comm? Are they BTC or BTA? That is the type of info that should be in the release notes.

Thanks.

Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor

All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.

Scraap
10-18-2013, 03:14 PM
Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor


All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.



So what points are negotiable?

Trillea
10-18-2013, 03:15 PM
Commendations of Valor:
[list]I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.

This is highly valuable information and should be checked ASAP please!

Ovrad
10-18-2013, 03:15 PM
Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor

All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.


So in other words.... your previous grind is now irrelevant, please start working on the new grind.

Not a fan. I don't know how many comm the sagas hand out, but it sounds like it will take a lot of saga completions for either hearts. If we have to repeat them over and over, at least make the comms BtA... And come on, don't remove old functionalities, we worked hard on those epic tokens!

Satyriasys
10-18-2013, 03:16 PM
Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor

All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.


Well if we get 10 Commendations for a saga this will be quite the failure. 1000 Commendations per saga on the other hand would be fair.

DemonStorm333
10-18-2013, 03:19 PM
Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor

All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.


so you can only obtain these thru doing sagas?? can u trade tokens in for some at the epic guy in the 12?? so you are pretty much saying that you need to purchase all packs out in evningstar or go vip in order to tr now?

as im not one for pointing out p2w things this kinda seems eh for anyone like myself who wishes to go for completionist and still have some lifes to go but then again if you must purchase packs to do the sagas and sagas are the only way to get this stuff then looks like im grinding tokens to trade in before u20 hits

Krelar
10-18-2013, 03:22 PM
Not a fan. I don't know how many comm the sagas hand out, but it sounds like it will take a lot of saga completions for either hearts. If we have to repeat them over and over, at least make the comms BtA... And come on, don't remove old functionalities, we worked hard on those epic tokens!

That's what it's looking like to me too. Either the saga hand out a lot of commendations and they should just divide all the numbers by 100 so they don't look so ridiculously large, or you have to grind the sagas for ages to get enough.

If those numbers are accurate they need to add commendations as a guaranteed drop in the end chest of every epic quest.

Right now I'm most worried about my character that is already be capped and has maxed destinies (In other words the character I am most likely to ER because there's nothing left to do). As a new method of getting hearts I am going to have to grind these out just for the commendations. The xp along the way is worthless, the gear is almost guaranteed to be worthless. :(

Ebondevil
10-18-2013, 03:22 PM
Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor


All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.



I won't object if we can turn 1 Token of the Twelve into 50 Commendation of Valor

Otherwise please leave the Hearts available from the Twelve as they currently are.

Thanks!

Edit: Another option would be to have one fragment = 1 commendation, and 1 Token = 100 Commendations.

FAQ
10-18-2013, 03:23 PM
Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor

All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.


Thanks for the info. But still, IMO, removing the ability to get Hearts of Wood with tokens of the 12 is a big, big FAIL.

Drwaz99
10-18-2013, 03:30 PM
nm

brian14
10-18-2013, 03:30 PM
Spellsinger Musical Studies still broken?

And as far as I can tell, it is not even in "Known Issues"!

Desonde
10-18-2013, 03:53 PM
Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor

All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.


So you're changing the currency from a BtA item that can be obtain in part in any epic level dungeon to a BtC item from a brand new and barely tested system (which has already been broken and shut down twice), and changing it from a system accessible to anyone who's purchased an adventure back with epic content to a system where there are only currently 6 possible courses of action five of which require the expansion packs.

This makes a very bold statement, "If you want to play any end game content, buy our expansion packs." and sends a very dangerous message, "We will move currently accessible content to new areas of the game to resell it."

A lot more information is required on this new system as right now it doesn't look very promising.

Da_Most_Shady
10-18-2013, 03:55 PM
Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor

All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.


Thanks for the info.

UurlockYgmeov
10-18-2013, 03:56 PM
I won't object if we can turn 1 Token of the Twelve into 50 Commendation of Valor

Otherwise please leave the Hearts available from the Twelve as they currently are.

Thanks!

Edit: Another option would be to have one fragment = 1 commendation, and 1 Token = 100 Commendations.

both of these are valid suggestions.

Need to keep tokens = HTR wood in game.

I called that this change would cause this player uproar. Only going to get worse - and the pitchforks will turn into hand grenades if (when) this hits live.

Furthermore incensing the population is the lack of response / clarification from the Dev's. Poor ole Squeak is the only one commenting - and at least Squeak is on top of her game. Thank you Squeak! (Seriously) - keep up the good work.

Let the rioting continue! Bring forth the Pitchforks and Light the Bonfires! Who's making the nooses? ;p

Desonde
10-18-2013, 04:13 PM
I won't object if we can turn 1 Token of the Twelve into 50 Commendation of Valor

Otherwise please leave the Hearts available from the Twelve as they currently are.

Thanks!

Edit: Another option would be to have one fragment = 1 commendation, and 1 Token = 100 Commendations.

In my opinion there are two options;

As Ebondevil has suggested above (with the addition to the fragment usage, changing the cost of the hearts to 2000, ~2600 and ~4500 as at 900 valor for 1 Heart is = 45valor for 1 token (900/20).
By having a Token to Valor exchange this is hugely beneficial to the player base, but it would also mean the system is valued at 20tokens, 26tokens and 45 tokens.

A fair compromise is to leave the Heroic TR in the twelve, and have the two new options based around the new system (you can include the heroic here as well as an alternative method if you like).

[EDIT: Your option is the third case where it's least beneficial to the player base]

rest
10-18-2013, 04:36 PM
Just wow. Why does every system have to be obsoleted? I mean the common theory is that this current crop of developers want to "leave their mark" on DDO and therefore are phasing out all the previous developers' efforts and completely ignoring them while simultaneously putting in "their" systems. I was caught halfway between believing it and thinking it was way too tin-foil. Looks like I should have believed it from the start. Or this is all coming from the money people who don't give a fig about anything in-game unless it leads to more people buying more stuff from the store.


Sagas have been screwed up and removed how many times? And now that's going the be the only in-game method to get TR hearts of all flavours? Jiminy Christmas.

Pandir
10-18-2013, 04:52 PM
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.


Well the amount of commendations dropped per saga/difficulty seems to be one of the most important questions. Could you please go check soon ?

oradafu
10-18-2013, 04:59 PM
Well, if Hearts of Wood for regular TRing can't be bought with Epic Tokens, the Devs have really moved the game in the wrong direction.

First, Epic Tokens have not been updated with really anything new when it comes to Augments, so the Devs have just watered down Epic Tokens once again. And like many "systems" that decreased in value in the game, they haven't kept it updated with something to keep players going. Look at Epic Raid Tokens that have a total of two uses in the game.

Secondly, they have once again kicked players in the pants (both the frontdoor and backdoor) who bought the House C challenges. The challenges aren't being upgraded to 30. The items are staying stagnant with level 20. No new items have been added. The Wand Bracelet was never made. The only thing the House C Challenges had to offer was Epic Tokens to trade in for TR Hearts. Now that's being taken away.

Can't say I'm going to be very enthusiastic about the game anymore if I can't continue to TR the way I have been. I'm not really seeing the point to changing this at all. The Devs have already watered down Epic Eberron content to near useless except for XP and TR Hearts. I don't see why the old system can't exist with this new system.

ThreeEyedBob
10-18-2013, 05:05 PM
You can always get the hearts from the DDOStore, right? LOL.........

Nibor
10-18-2013, 05:40 PM
Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor

All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.


The BtC aspect is very disappointing, and a major change. It is very saddening that you will be forcing many people to change playstyle to continue to use heroic TRs as they always have.

There is really no excuse for using such absurd numbers in the commendations of valor trade in. Scale the numbers down. How many will sit in a stack? They will go into bags, but a Large Ingredient Bag will only hold a stack of 2500 of them. Now you're giving a BtC ingredient that you need in the thousands, and if you don't use right away you may end up stacking up tens of thousands of them, on characters that intend to Heroic TR or Epic TR - or both - and need to keep lots of various levels of BtC gear already. Divide the numbers by 100, or allow for a trade up like fragments of the twelve. 100 Commendations of Valor = 1 Valorous Award, or some such.

You haven't listed how many Commendations you get per saga reward. Consider this. Right now running Epic Hard quests, for those that give tokens, will often give somewhere between 75 fragments and a full token. So for 20 tokens, we're talking about 30 quests on EH. Now look at sagas - there are at least 10 quests - only Gianthold, otherwise minimum 11 quests - in each saga. So those saga rewards on EH should be roughly equal to 7.5 to 10 tokens, which means ~300 Commendations of Valor. The larger sagas need to give more. Yes, there's some overlap, but not enough to warrant anything lower than that. EN saga reward can be a little less, and EE and True Elite should be noticeably more. Perhaps something like 30 comms per quest in the saga on EH, and scale up and down from there. Again, it should be obvious these numbers could be cut by at least a factor of 10 without changing anything about the system.

MartinusWyllt
10-18-2013, 05:40 PM
you can always get the hearts from the ddostore, right? Lol.........

wai!

BMurph
10-18-2013, 06:08 PM
The BtC aspect is very disappointing, and a major change. It is very saddening that you will be forcing many people to change playstyle to continue to use heroic TRs as they always have.

This is honestly a terrible decision. There is no reason farming can't be done on an account basis rather than a per character basis. I've seen plenty of times where someone will have one toon that would be experimental or not that player's main playstyle or simply just poor at farming, yet they might have another toon that is great for farming (many monk based builds for example, zoom zoom). By forcing a bound to character rule here, rather than giving that player an easier time trying to get to a better next life, you force them to trudge through on a character that they might even hate at that point and just want to be done with or at the least force to party as a handicap to said party. This would likely result in calls for help to guildies/friends/whateves as it hasn't been easy finding parties for what you may want to quest as of late.


There is really no excuse for using such absurd numbers in the commendations of valor trade in. Scale the numbers down. How many will sit in a stack? They will go into bags, but a Large Ingredient Bag will only hold a stack of 2500 of them. Now you're giving a BtC ingredient that you need in the thousands, and if you don't use right away you may end up stacking up tens of thousands of them, on characters that intend to Heroic TR or Epic TR - or both - and need to keep lots of various levels of BtC gear already. Divide the numbers by 100, or allow for a trade up like fragments of the twelve. 100 Commendations of Valor = 1 Valorous Award, or some such.

You haven't listed how many Commendations you get per saga reward. Consider this. Right now running Epic Hard quests, for those that give tokens, will often give somewhere between 75 fragments and a full token. So for 20 tokens, we're talking about 30 quests on EH. Now look at sagas - there are at least 10 quests - only Gianthold, otherwise minimum 11 quests - in each saga. So those saga rewards on EH should be roughly equal to 7.5 to 10 tokens, which means ~300 Commendations of Valor. The larger sagas need to give more. Yes, there's some overlap, but not enough to warrant anything lower than that. EN saga reward can be a little less, and EE and True Elite should be noticeably more. Perhaps something like 30 comms per quest in the saga on EH, and scale up and down from there. Again, it should be obvious these numbers could be cut by at least a factor of 10 without changing anything about the system.

Until we see what the numbers are, can't really say too much about this yet, but I really hope these numbers are being looked at so that farming for hearts remains at least relatively similar in effort/time to what it currently requires. I would hate to have this whole revamp and reincarnation expansion that I've been excited for completely get ruined simply because I don't have the means to reincarnate anymore. :(

Ebondevil
10-18-2013, 07:01 PM
I would like to point out, that only being able to get the Hearts from Epic Saga's is probably a very bad idea: as it stands the closure of a single quest can shut down 3 Epic Saga's (Half of them) and 2 Heroic Saga (Totalling more than half of the Saga's currently in game!)

That sort of thing would likely have a serious impact!

Also I would like to point out that I can get a couple of tokens running Devil assault Solo on Epic Normal, 10 quest Runs is a TR ready to go, there are saga's that take longer than that.

Dagolar
10-18-2013, 07:04 PM
I won't object if we can turn 1 Token of the Twelve into 50 Commendation of Valor

Otherwise please leave the Hearts available from the Twelve as they currently are.

Thanks!

Edit: Another option would be to have one fragment = 1 commendation, and 1 Token = 100 Commendations.

I'm entirely in favor of that approach- it gives a little nod of appreciation and respect toward us players, and saves us the trouble of sorting epic pieces across our toons trying to mush together as many tokens as we can before the pass [which isn't to say we wouldn't farm a bit, to stock up, but rather, that we wouldn't have to worry what is where, and risk completely losing [functionality on] our remaining tokens.]

Dagolar
10-18-2013, 07:08 PM
Also, agreed- the BtC and the lack of alternative methods of farming seem VERY needlessly, capriciously restrictive.


Oh, and here's another point-
As a whole, players almost never run Challenges of the Artificers EXCEPT for tokens.
Are you just abandoning that pack altogether? We've been kinda expecting that for a while, honestly..

And then there is the fact that, what are we going to use tokens of the 12 for besides? If they're removed, what's the point of farming epic quests?

My point isn't to be snappish, but to emphasize the point that this seems really poorly thought out.

And then, this:
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V

So you're changing the currency from a BtA item that can be obtain in part in any epic level dungeon to a BtC item from a brand new and barely tested system (which has already been broken and shut down twice), and changing it from a system accessible to anyone who's purchased an adventure back with epic content to a system where there are only currently 6 possible courses of action five of which require the expansion packs.

This makes a very bold statement, "If you want to play any end game content, buy our expansion packs." and sends a very dangerous message, "We will move currently accessible content to new areas of the game to resell it."

A lot more information is required on this new system as right now it doesn't look very promising.


I'd like to use my 'Wish' spell right now to fix this matter, k!

Oh, and to add playable Kobolds and Gnomes, of course.

oradafu
10-18-2013, 07:17 PM
And then there is the fact that, what are we going to use tokens of the 12 for besides? If they're removed, what's the point of farming epic quests?


I mentioned that also.The new Augment system that made Epic Token Augments obsolete (and removed the only truly decent Epic Augment from the game) destroyed the need for Epic Tokens except for TR Hearts. And let's not forget that the Devs have done nothing really since its inception for Epic Raid Tokens. So I see Epic Tokens as the new Epic Raid Tokens, near useless and additional clutter in the game. So Epic Eberron content that will be run by players will consist of Von3 for the XP and that's all.

HAL
10-18-2013, 07:31 PM
Commendations of Valor:

Bound to Character
Completing an Epic Saga will grant Commendations of Valor. The amount depends on the Saga and the difficulties you ran the individual quests on (like other Saga rewards). I have not checked how many Commendations of Valor each Saga grants.
Double clicking on a Commendation of Valor brings up a Barter UI with the following options:

Heroic True Heart of Wood - 900 Commendations of Valor
Iconic True Heart of Wood - 1150 Commendations of Valor
Epic Heart of Wood - 2000 Commendations of Valor

All Hearts of Wood obtained through the Commendations of Valor are Bound to Character.


Why would you tie Hearts to completing entire Sagas?! You can get Epic Tokens from one quest. If you prefer certain quests you can run those instead of being forced to complete an entire Saga whether you like all the quests or not. And to top it off you make the Comms BtC. Way to really paint your players into a corner with lack of choices.

toaftoaf
10-18-2013, 08:07 PM
why would they do stuff like this when epic twists can still be used at lv 1? they where released June 25th, 2012.. thats over a year of epic twists... at least make hearts of wood stack now. so we can save them up. and yes from what ive noticed it would only take 1 thing to fix the twists thing...

Satyriasys
10-18-2013, 09:05 PM
I don't understand why the hearts have to cost so much. Even if we get many comms from sagas the numbers are too high. Drop them to under 100 and just give us less comms. There is no reason to make us collect 1000s of something when 10s will do.

Raist1280
10-18-2013, 09:47 PM
agree on both!

plus - now must be VIP or own access to hall of heroes in order to reincarnate....

sad - F2P and premies - guess Turbine is telling you to go suck it.

Everyone has access to the hall of heroes, its teleporting to the hall from the character login screen that isnt free...

The hall of heroes can be accessed from the marketplace (in eberron) or eveningstar (FR-side)

zDragonz
10-18-2013, 10:00 PM
You can always get the hearts from the DDOStore, right? LOL.........

I dunno I liked running Epics to get the tokens and not buy from the Store. Not only did I get tokens but a chance at good loot.

Buying it from the Store is missing out on chances to get good loot in Epic chests.

I will not do Saga(s) to get a chance at a TR unless I only have to do it once. If I do an Entire Saga then find out I do not have enough I have lost the 'fun of playing' in my opinion. Also forcing us to a new system and not having variety or a way to acquire it another way ruins the infrastructure to droll and dull. If they let us do it more than one way I might try out Sagas as a way, but to make it the only way. I don't like it.

Raist1280
10-18-2013, 10:02 PM
This makes a very bold statement, "If you want to play any end game content, buy our expansion packs." and sends a very dangerous message, "We will move currently accessible content to new areas of the game to resell it."

Of all the MMOs I've played that have released expansions, DDO is the *only* one I've come across that had any genuine end-game without buying the expansions, so I really don't find Turbine's statement (buy the expansions if you want access to end-game). As to the dangerous message: they really need to stop coming up with "updates" that go back on prior promises (i.e. the first idea they released about epic reincarnation wiping all destiny xp)or that in effect "take away" something that players have had access to for years (trading epic tokens for TR hearts).

Failedlegend
10-18-2013, 10:55 PM
IMO its just another way for them to cut ties with Ebberon, their treating it like its an embaressment and frankly I'm insulted I LOVE Eberron.

Anyways its nice to know the costs of the various HoW but its kind of pointless without knowing how many tokens we get for a saga...is it 1000? 200? 1? 500? considered a saga is like 10+ specific quests it better be alot.

Krelar
10-18-2013, 11:12 PM
IMO its just another way for them to cut ties with Ebberon, their treating it like its an embaressment and frankly I'm insulted I LOVE Eberron.

Anyways its nice to know the costs of the various HoW but its kind of pointless without knowing how many tokens we get for a saga...is it 1000? 200? 1? 500? considered a saga is like 10+ specific quests it better be alot.

EH saga give 17, there's a screenshot in one of the other threads.....


http://imageshack.us/a/img513/2482/ws3h.jpg

Ran through epic Normal Web of Chaos / Sschindylryn / Demon Web.

Paid to upgrade to epic hard reward.

17 commendations.

Failedlegend
10-18-2013, 11:26 PM
So the tokens/fragments my friend and I spent months farming but haven't quite obtained enough to get a True Heart are now practically useless (I can get augments just fine with normal collectables...so tokens are now considered norma, not special in any way collectables)

To clarify the only issue I have is HEROIC TR requiring Epic content to be played...ITR and Epic True Hearts make sense since their well Lvl 28 required...making Heroic TR, something done by Lvl 20s require epic content is ridiculous especially since their BTC.

In short leave HEROIC LR/TR in the twelve (yes i mean add LR+0s) and put Iconic TR/Epic HoW in the sagas. Heroic stuff belong in heroic content, epic stuff belongs in epic content.

Random THought: Maybe this is just another instance of Turbine cutting ties with Eberron...sad :(

BMurph
10-18-2013, 11:58 PM
EH saga give 17, there's a screenshot in one of the other threads.....

I pray that this is just some early random value and not an intended one. If I have to run 53 sagas to just get a single heroic TR, I'd probably never TR again. :(

Desonde
10-19-2013, 01:01 AM
Of all the MMOs I've played that have released expansions, DDO is the *only* one I've come across that had any genuine end-game without buying the expansions, so I really don't find Turbine's statement (buy the expansions if you want access to end-game). As to the dangerous message: they really need to stop coming up with "updates" that go back on prior promises (i.e. the first idea they released about epic reincarnation wiping all destiny xp)or that in effect "take away" something that players have had access to for years (trading epic tokens for TR hearts).

This is actually the whole point I was trying to make, having an end game that is enhanced by expansions, not obsoleted by them, promotes longevity, a stronger fan base, and a larger pool of customers to draw money from (Offer them the shiny new model, make them want it: Don't take their beater away and say wanna keep going? Buy this. it won't work).

But the key word is 'had', when the level cap was 20 they had Heroic TRing, they had Epic Questing, and they had Raids. Now at level cap 28 they currently only have TRing (with the plans of adding Iconic TR and Epic Reincarnating in U20), the Epic Questing has been changed to being the norm to move towards end game (with content only containing an epic version, and epic experience being required to move through the higher levels) and Raiding has dwindled to a fraction of what it was as current game play has evolved beyond most of the available Raids (with new raids being planned for a later release). The only thing in the end game that hasn't moved into the expansions is the Heroic TR (And Epic Gianthold Raid)...

Flavilandile
10-19-2013, 04:46 AM
(with new raid being planned for a later release)

Fixed it for you... Only one single raid planned by the end of next year according to Rowan, when at cap 20 we had 6+ Raids to choose from [Heroic and Epic, in the right level range].

The Token change is just killing the only endgame left, since they killed the Raiding Endgame with MoTU.

silinteresting
10-19-2013, 06:37 AM
i have a quick question.

to tr under the new system do i have to own the hall of heroes?

if this has been asked before i do appologise as i must of missed it.

thankyou for help

your friend sil :)

Flavilandile
10-19-2013, 07:00 AM
no you can enter it from Eveningstar and Eberron.

Being VIP or owning it just means that you can use the buttons at character selection to go straight to one side or the other.
( which is pointless most of the time as you'll first have to get Ship Buffs.... Which are Eberron based... And it takes way longer to logout and back in than to use the Key or just run there.

silinteresting
10-19-2013, 07:46 AM
no you can enter it from Eveningstar and Eberron.

Being VIP or owning it just means that you can use the buttons at character selection to go straight to one side or the other.
( which is pointless most of the time as you'll first have to get Ship Buffs.... Which are Eberron based... And it takes way longer to logout and back in than to use the Key or just run there.

ok thankyou for clearing that up for me.

your friend sil :)

Scraap
10-19-2013, 01:47 PM
I pray that this is just some early random value and not an intended one. If I have to run 53 sagas to just get a single heroic TR, I'd probably never TR again. :(

I've very little doubt they'll drop the requirements down significantly. If not this patch then next one after they see the fallout.

Their current premise of ripping out an existing system to add value to a new one however, is fundamentally flawed, and I do doubt after seeing similar <insert several expletives here> that that will be altered beyond a few tweaks here and there.

I certainly hope I'm wrong on the latter score.

nayozz
10-19-2013, 02:25 PM
if you want to use that stupid saga system...
at least leave the ability to get an heroic heart of wood with 20 epic tokens....

if you want to make the iconic tr and the epic tr available in game only with saga system... i am fine... just leave the possibility to earn heroic tr wood with epic tokens.

MRMechMan
10-20-2013, 09:41 AM
Sagas for hearts=big steamy bag of $h1t

MartinusWyllt
10-20-2013, 10:22 AM
There have been many other good suggestions...I'm just writing what I think, at the very least, would make this far less annoying...

Can run one saga on EE and get a heroic heart...twice on EH...three times on EN (maybe). Maybe a 2nd round for an epic heart.
There would need to be more sagas, of course, Ebberon House Sagas sound like a great place to start.

New money in epic chests, too.

New money is BtA.

I get that they want to get rid of epic tokens. Epic tokens are already like Milton getting moved to the basement and not getting paid, just holding onto his red swingline stapler...or cannith challenges are Milton, whatever.

Satyriasys
10-20-2013, 10:26 AM
There have been many other good suggestions...I'm just writing what I think, at the very least, would make this far less annoying...

Can run one saga on EE and get a heroic heart...twice on EH...three times on EN (maybe). Maybe a 2nd round for an epic heart.
There would need to be more sagas, of course, Ebberon House Sagas sound like a great place to start.

New money in epic chests, too.

New money is BtA.

I get that they want to get rid of epic tokens. Epic tokens are already like Milton getting moved to the basement and not getting paid, just holding onto his red swingline stapler...or cannith challenges are Milton, whatever.

This would be the only way I could accept the new system and the removal of the hearts from the twelve.
This would be similar to the current grind for a heart. Anything less than this and I will be forced to quit probably. Theres no way I am going to buy a heart from the store or run 100s of quests every time I want to TR.

ugabuga
10-20-2013, 11:28 AM
Here is an idea that would fix a number of issues that have been brought up in this thread and also solve the long running issue of not being able to get Epic Tokens from FR Epic content. This idea would also simplify the whole issue.

1 - Change Epic Tokens to Commendations of Valor on a one to one basis.
2 - Change Raid Tokens to Commendations of Valor on a XXX to one basis.
3 - Change Token Fragments to Fragments of Valor.
4 - Allow conversion of 100 Fragments of Valor to 1 Commendation of Valor.
5 - Add Commendations of Valor/Fragments of Valor to Epic FR content just like Eberron content.
6 - Change the in game vendors (like in the twelve) to jive with the name changes.
7 - Give items that required Raid Tokens a price in Commendation of Valor.
8 - Just like with Epic Tokens, allow plays to turn challenge ingredients into Commendation of Valor.
9 - Keep the price of Heroic True HoW at 20 Commendations of Valor.
10 - Set price of Iconic True HoW to 25 Commendations of Valor and Epic HoW to 40 Commendations of Valor.

Please help me improve on this idea.

Hathorian
10-20-2013, 12:33 PM
Sagas for hearts=big steamy bag of $h1t

+1. Very transparent cash grab that will push people out of the game. Why invest so much work in a new TR system and then force people to buy hearts. Ridiculous.

Saravis
10-20-2013, 02:17 PM
What is (was?) wrong with the tokens? They worked. The community was comfortable with them. They were an additional feature to all Eberron packs that had epic content. Sure, you could say that players just farmed one or two quests over and over, but that was their choice; emphasis on choice. Players could choose how they got their tokens. I chose to run a variety of quests. I chose not to run the challenges. It was my choice.

Now they bring out this Saga thing and instead of making it another option, they eliminate the other options and make it mandatory.
What is wrong with having both? It would be another option and regardless of if you like it or not, you couldn't complain about having more options.

You see where I'm going with this? I like choice. I don't like losing options.

thomascoolone64
10-20-2013, 04:36 PM
Squeak, Can you fill the AH with Shadowfell Random loot items???

Thumbed_Servant
10-21-2013, 02:42 AM
From Glin, DDO Senior Producer:

I am looking forward to providing everyone with the design details of proposed changes to the Reincarnation system in the coming weeks. Before we start rolling out the fact sheets and dev discussions, I intend to get in front of some of the greater concerns that players (and developers) have raised regarding our prior proposal for Epic Reincarnation.

To get to the point: We have really changed direction from what was previously proposed; and I for one am very pleased that the systems team has taken that direction from 'power from pain' to something more palatable, like 'rewarded for efforts.'
....

~E

The removal of the current ability to purchase True Hearts of Wood via Tokens of the Twelve feels like the pain Glin said you were taking us away from. Not only have we players become accustomed to the old system, but if we have banked Tokens of the Twelve that we've previously earned for the express purpose of funding future True Reincarnations this proposed change will instantly devalue that currency and that feels more like "pain", not "rewarded for effort."

The new currency of Commendations of Valor is more of what we already have...too many currencies. We have platinum, we have collectables, we have astral shards, we have a different currency for each of the different item upgrade types in the game (Unraveling Enchantments; Dampened; Fusible/Malleable/Fragmented/Battle-Scarred; Trace of Madness; Suppressed Power; Nearly Finished; Upgradeable Item (Stormreaver); Upgradable Item (Black Abbot); Attuned to Heroism / Armor Upgrade / Cormyrian Dragon Armor), we have Tokens of the Twelve, we have epic scrolls/shards/seals, we have Cannith Crafting essences, we have dragon scales, we have relics, and did I miss any (probably)?

Should you go ahead with the new Commendations of Valor: 1) Keep the current Tokens of the Twelve True Heart of Wood purchase system too. 2) The current Commendations costs for Hearts of Wood as listed are astronomically too high'. 3) There should be MANY more saga's in the game incorporating many more quests and packs, thus providing more options of what to play through to earn the hearts of wood.

AzB said it very well, so I end my post by quoting their post in part:

... this current idea of removing the 20 token for a heart of wood requirement and replacing it with an incredible number of another new form of currency is baffling. This takes making TR'ing a bit more difficult to an extreme that I would never have imagined.

I'm not sure what your long term plan for the game is, (I hope you have one!) but this constant changing of current systems while leaving older systems, including the latest release, full of bugs and unfinished features and systems is just plain bad business.

...Please keep up the good work, I really do enjoy the wonderful aspects of the game and I hope to keep playing for a long time. But stop creating new systems and fix the ones you already have.

AmiSouthpaw
10-22-2013, 09:41 AM
Speaking of the TR system on the Preview server is it closed, TR only that is. I mean I go to the orb guy thing and aske for more info and says nothing just closes the discussion

Krelar
10-22-2013, 10:08 AM
Speaking of the TR system on the Preview server is it closed, TR only that is. I mean I go to the orb guy thing and aske for more info and says nothing just closes the discussion

In red.


Hellos!

We just brought Lamannia down so we can add some more things! Lamannia should be back up around 2pm Eastern (GMT -4).

We will focus on the Update 20 Quests this week since Reincarnation is not yet ready for preview.

I'll update the Release Notes and Known Issues in a bit.

Ebondevil
10-22-2013, 10:09 AM
Speaking of the TR system on the Preview server is it closed, TR only that is. I mean I go to the orb guy thing and aske for more info and says nothing just closes the discussion


Reincarnation:


We are in the process of reworking Reincarnation, so it currently does not function properly. Please do not Reincarnate at this time.

Pretty much says it all, yes?

AmiSouthpaw
10-22-2013, 12:43 PM
ahh missed that one thanks for showing me going to go hide in a corner now

doawithlife
10-24-2013, 05:47 AM
Number 1 reason this is a really bad idea. They will create a huge disconnect between end game people and new players. The new player will find it almost impossible to catch up to the 3x completionist. Who is the 3x completionist suppose to play with, everytime one of his high level friends quits he has one less person to group with. Instead of refilling the ranks with new players, you make the jouney impossible.


Just a thought that might make both sides happy.
Keep commendations for ITR/ETR.
For a TR, add 10 or 20 tokens to the cost of a heart. So 30-40 tokens instead of 20. This would push more people into purchasing hearts (the money they so want to make). It still leaves the avenue we are comfortable with, just now it takes more effort. That might actually make me consider buying a heart or two when I feel lazy, but I still would farm for most. With commendations replacing tokens I might just quit.


Other possibilities that might soften the blow, if they are going to do this. Add a heart of wood to bigby's and Otto's boxes.
Lower the costs of hearts to 800 points, that way 3x completionist would cost about $300 (I could see spending this much over two years + a few random other things I might buy).
Make store hearts dropable. Wouldn't be so bad if I could pay $2milpp for one.