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View Full Version : where do cleric turing and spells stop working so good?



silinteresting
10-09-2013, 02:08 PM
ok after reading a thread called cleric love and replying there about turning,
i dont want to derail or occupy that thread with questions so here we go?

you have just completed 12 past lives 3 cleric,wizard, fav soul and sorcerer
and are now about to embark on your 13th and final life which will be a non
splash pure cleric caster.

over the last 12 lives you now have all the gear you need in game, both heroic
and epic and have built a amazing build.

so lets start with heroic elite as you level back up to 20 with the exception of red names
is there any quest where i can not turn the undead in said quest?
catacombs. necro 1,2,3 and 4, delera's, gianthold etc etc

the same question goes for spells like greater command, slay living, destruction, implosion
etc etc when do these stop working without a debuff of some description?.

now we have done the heroics and we have climbed our way back to 20 we hit the epics.
if we decide epic elite all the way will our turning or spells work with the same degree that they
did in heroic elites? im guessing even with full epic destinies(which i have) they wont but are
there some quests where they do? easyier epics maybe?
or am i destinied to be a heal bot in epic elite and a god in epic hard?


peronal note ive only run a couple of epic elites and they where on a meele but they were fun
so im kinda hoping after all the hard work(sounds like a job lol) im gonna have fun on my caster.

anyway im out of time, wife wants me (oh im so lucky lol) but not out of questions :)
thankyou for reading and here's hoping some kind soul will help.

your friend sil :)

zwiebelring
10-09-2013, 02:15 PM
so lets start with heroic elite as you level back up to 20 with the exception of red names
is there any quest where i can not turn the undead in said quest?
catacombs. necro 1,2,3 and 4, delera's, gianthold etc etc
I am playing a melee Clr atm. Focusing on Divine Might and bumping my CHA. Multiclassing is no problem at all, I turn my way through undead mobs (no past life, just Silver Flame + Hallowed item + CHA stat booster). All base level 6 quests in house J work regarding turning. Delera pt. 1 too. Bloody Crypt and flags as well. Black Loch works, too, though I expected those strange intelligent undead not to be affected, but they are.

Did not try delera pt.2-final and such, yet. Low level quests are absolutely no problem for the undead tag-nuke, so far. Strangely enough, Positive Energy Burst does not affect undead, I read *immune* all the time when I epxected dmg.... I assume hitting the wall at Xorian Cipher.

Enoach
10-09-2013, 02:23 PM
My statements are from the experience of a Cleric with 3 Cleric PL's

This is also gearing with Eternal Faith + Silver Flame item(s) and use of Seek Eternal Rest. I only took the minimum enhancements needed to get the Destruction on Turn.

At heroic content - using the Radiant Servant line that allows destruction on Turning

What I found was that there were not any SINGLE undead that I could not turn unless it fell under the following conditions:
1. Red Named
2. Warded from Insta-death - Exception when that Insta-Death Ward can be dispelled (However, now we get into the cost of dispel+Turn which in cases is worth it)

On Epic
1. Epic Normal and Some Epic Hard Content have undead that can be turned - Keep in mind that as the HD increase the ability to Turn/Amount To be able to Turn decreases and the Healing Burst becomes more economical
2. Epic Hard undead quests are littered with HIGH CR mobs with HD out of range - Example: Black Loch's zombies
3. Epic Elite I have been able to turn some of the Undead, but the HD in some quests make justifying the Turn vs the Healing burst hard.

DeKalbSun
10-09-2013, 02:34 PM
I am playing a melee Clr atm. Focusing on Divine Might and bumping my CHA. Multiclassing is no problem at all, I turn my way through undead mobs (no past life, just Silver Flame + Hallowed item + CHA stat booster). All base level 6 quests in house J work regarding turning. Delera pt. 1 too. Bloody Crypt and flags as well. Black Loch works, too, though I expected those strange intelligent undead not to be affected, but they are.

Did not try delera pt.2-final and such, yet. Low level quests are absolutely no problem for the undead tag-nuke, so far. Strangely enough, Positive Energy Burst does not affect undead, I read *immune* all the time when I epxected dmg.... I assume hitting the wall at Xorian Cipher.


Thats strange about the burst. I just leveled a cleric to 20 and didn't experience that. I saw damage numbers when I used it.

guardianx2009
10-09-2013, 03:07 PM
My statements are from the experience of a Cleric with 3 Cleric PL's

This is also gearing with Eternal Faith + Silver Flame item(s) and use of Seek Eternal Rest. I only took the minimum enhancements needed to get the Destruction on Turn.

At heroic content - using the Radiant Servant line that allows destruction on Turning

What I found was that there were not any SINGLE undead that I could not turn unless it fell under the following conditions:
1. Red Named
2. Warded from Insta-death - Exception when that Insta-Death Ward can be dispelled (However, now we get into the cost of dispel+Turn which in cases is worth it)

On Epic
1. Epic Normal and Some Epic Hard Content have undead that can be turned - Keep in mind that as the HD increase the ability to Turn/Amount To be able to Turn decreases and the Healing Burst becomes more economical
2. Epic Hard undead quests are littered with HIGH CR mobs with HD out of range - Example: Black Loch's zombies
3. Epic Elite I have been able to turn some of the Undead, but the HD in some quests make justifying the Turn vs the Healing burst hard.

As a cleric with 2 PL's with all the gearing, including TOD Radiant ring set.

Heroic content - I agree with most everything posted above. In the past, certain quests (Xorian Cipher), undead mob's HD do not match their CR, and were seriously inflated on elite difficulties. They supposed to have made changes, but I have not been back there since.

Epic Content:
1. Epic Normal - yawn... everything and multiple things die... weeee
2. Epic Hard - massacre.. everything dies... I enjoy obliterating skeles in EH madstone while party watches in awe. Black Loch zombies on EE are CR45 which is basically out of range. I never stepped in on EH, but I have to assume they must be in the 30-mid 30s... they should be fair game.
3. Epic Elite - It's epic elite, you are no longer god.. don't expect to be able to turn everything. The general the rule in EE is undead that are 'spawned/summoned' from another mob (ie: undead drow necromancers, or undeads summoned by a drow necro), have lower CR (in the 30s). Thus are within turn range.

I've successfully turned undeads spawned in EE Fall of Truth. Those undead were CR42 - and I had ~50% success rate. My next TR will put my ceiling at CR44 and give me close to 80% success rate on CR42's..

silinteresting
10-09-2013, 04:58 PM
thankyou to all the above posters.

your answers have easied the concerns i had so ill carry on
with my plan.

thankyou all once again for taking the time to help

your friend sil :)

SirValentine
10-09-2013, 07:15 PM
you have just completed 12 past lives 3 cleric,wizard, fav soul and sorcerer
and are now about to embark on your 13th and final life which will be a non
splash pure cleric caster.


Nice scenario...you forgot a few extra lives for Completionist. :-)



is there any quest where i can not turn the undead in said quest?


In heroic, nope. I could turn everything on a Pally.

In epic, no idea, haven't played an epic Turn-capable character since new-style Epic appeared.



the same question goes for spells like greater command, slay living, destruction, implosion
etc etc when do these stop working without a debuff of some description?.


This I can answer better. I recently TRed, but for a long time was playing a capped caster divine.

In your scenario, whatever school you specialize in will keep working well in everything up to but not including EE Storm Horns.

zwiebelring
10-10-2013, 11:57 AM
Thats strange about the burst. I just leveled a cleric to 20 and didn't experience that. I saw damage numbers when I used it.
Then I unlokced uber TR difficulty or something. Bursting did not deal dmg. to undead. It heals as expected but otherwise did not affect any undead mob. While for intelligent undead I would not have been surpised, I was with Dread Zombies and mindless undead mobs.

mna
10-10-2013, 03:02 PM
Then I unlokced uber TR difficulty or something. Bursting did not deal dmg. to undead. It heals as expected but otherwise did not affect any undead mob. While for intelligent undead I would not have been surpised, I was with Dread Zombies and mindless undead mobs.

Had the same thing happen to me on ONE of my first life toons' runs through Xorian Cipher. Possibly that place might just be weird that way.


In some circumstances it's also possible to miss your own burst... had that happen in Crystal Cove once, the undead did take damage but I didn't get healed.

G_Lich
10-14-2013, 09:39 PM
The bar will be set and surpassed by the CHA maxed, 3 Cler PL, Iconic TR into Mourninglord (+6 effective turning levels in racial tree on top of all else).

This coming from a cleric who usually leads killcount in CITW EH from all the drow souls and spider souls. I definitely feel un-godlike in EE undead content (except for shadows/evoc focus sunburst is a nice 1 shot room clearer).

~Lifelink of Ghallanda