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View Full Version : FYI: Big Hint as to identity of next Sorc Prestige from Feather_of_Sun



Failedlegend
10-03-2013, 12:48 PM
Just in case you missed it :D


Internal development on a new enhancement tree was completed last week. It's currently getting an Alpha pass from our Quality Assurance team, and an Alpha Preview pass by a select group of players on the Mournlands Preview Server.

It'll be available for public consumption on Lamannia (our Public Preview Server) some time before Update 20, and will go live with Update 20.

Hint: It's in the Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5

Also here's my opinion


Oooo you devilish bastard ;P

Time for some process of elimination

So the prestige classes that are contained within the DMG are Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Archmage, Assassin, Blackguard, Dragon Disciple, Duelist, Dwarven Defender, Eldritch Knight, Hierophant, Horizon Walker, Loremaster, Mystic Theurge, Shadowdancer, Red Wizard and Thaumaturgist

To start we remove the existing prestiges/epic destinies bringing it to Arcane Trickster, Blackguard, Dragon Disciple, Duelist, Dwarven Defender, Eldritch Knight, Hierophant, Horizon Walker, Loremaster, Mystic Theurge, Red Wizard and Thaumaturgist.

Than I'd say we can easily remove any Prestiges which a clearly linked to specific classes and /or races so we lose Blackguard & Dwarven Defender.

There's a few divine or hybrid only prestige in there so Mystic Theurge (might be a cool idea for an ED), Hierophant & Thaumaturgists.

Next we remove the obviously melee prestige duelist

Now starts with opinions/guessing to start I doubt its going to be Horizon walker...first off its a very weak and boring presrtige class and frankly has nothing to do with spellcasters so thats gone. Next I'd say Arcane Trickster & Loremaster are Iconically Wizard Prestiges (my wizard would love me some Arcane Trickster) so again removed due to opinion.

Red Wizards is an iconic Wizard prestige as well but it's connection to the generic realms makes me think the devs might try to shoehorn it in (on WBs orders) so I can't remove it because of that but I'm prbably just being paranoid, also it is a Human only prestige so that probably disqualified it (although Amaunator is a god primarily worshipped by Humans and Aasimar and the devs saw fit to make the Iconic Morninglord an elf so who knows)

Now all that remains is Dragon Disciple, Eldritch Knight & Red Wizard my personal hope is of course Dragon disciple although I wouldn't really complain if it was Eldritch knight,...but I really do hope and frankly imo is most likely going to be Dragon Disciple.

So yeah my guess is Dragon Disciple (to be fair it always was, this just cemented that guess)...any chance we can get Kobolds why you guys are at it....Kobold Dragon Disciple -> Draconic Incarnation FTW...TRIPLE DRAGON!!! :P

Sidenote: Hey dev types making DD (if that is what happening) consider throwing in some abilities from the swift blade prestige class they'd fit nicely in the the Gish angle of DD.

sephiroth1084
10-03-2013, 02:17 PM
My money is on Dragon Disciple with some bits from Eldritch Knight: bonuses to Str, Con and Cha, full BAB somehow, proficiency and reduced penalty for wearing armor, some improvement to weapon-based attacks (maybe unarmed/natural attacks), an Abundant Step-like ability to simulate wings, bonus to natural armor and PRR, and some breath weapon spell-like abilities, along with resistance based on dragon color selected and some bonuses against things like sleep and poison.

My assumption is that, other than for the battlesorc players, the tree will be used for picking up some survivability bonuses on casting-focused sorcerers more heavily invested in a Savant tree.

Failedlegend
10-03-2013, 02:38 PM
I wouldn't mind a few abilities from Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) to flesh the tree out a bit.

Mind you if Wizard ever gets Arcane Trickster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm) than Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) might fit better within that Tree as a supplemental. Mind you I'd be ok with Arcane Trickster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm) as an ED instead (stick it in arcane sphere linking to Shadowdancer with Magister to the right and draconic incarnation to left...fatesinger can be the bottom of the diamond)

Actually forget that...devs give DD a sprinkling of Eldritch Knight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/eldritchKnight.htm) abilities to flesh it out than give Wizards Wild Mage with a sprinkling of Arcane Trickster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/arcaneTrickster.htm) and Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) as their 3rd prestige, that will give both casters a different way to play and some interesting unique abilities :D

voodoogroves
10-03-2013, 02:53 PM
The only one that screams sorc is Dragon Disciple. It classically requires the ability to cast arcane spells w/o preparation right?

Sadly, this pegs them more down the elemental-only route.

I hope it's something different, like Thaumaturgist - and if so, Wizards should get access.



One of these days they need to implement the joint trees. EK, Arcane Trickster, etc.

Failedlegend
10-03-2013, 03:01 PM
Sadly, this pegs them more down the elemental-only route.


If they include Gem dragons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gem_dragon) as an option Sorcs could finally have a force option as well as Light & Sonic. Although I'd like to see Force Savant made as well.



One of these days they need to implement the joint trees. EK, Arcane Trickster, etc.

Hybrid Prestige trees would be glorious I've tried to bring up the idea several time actually, especially during the "Let's Talk" Enhancement thread. Obviously its a bit out of date since a bunch of things got changed from the initial design but the idea would still work.



Thats why I think they should add in "Hybrid" PrEs to give a place to PrEs that don't fit with just one class..Eldritch Knight require levels in both an arcane and martial class...Sacred Fist requires Monk + Cleric...Arcane Trickster requires Wizard + Rogue Mech...????? requires Rogue Mech + Arty Master Maker (this just needs to be done)....Corrupt Avenger requires Palemaster+Divine Avenger....etc.

Here's a quick example using Swiftblade (and using the Tempest Template)

The Requirements:

Core 1: Arcane1/Martial1 Character Level 3
Core 2: Arcane2/Martial2 CL 6
Core 3: Arcane4/Martial4 CL 9
Core 4: Arcane5/Martial5 CL 12
Core 5: Arcane6/Martial6 CL 15
Core 6: Arcane7/Martial7 CL 18
Capstone: Arcane8/Martial8 CL 20

Note: This means a Arcane18/Martial2 would only have access to tier 2

The "Free Bonuses"

5 Points Spent: Gain Spring Attack
10 Points Spent: Swiftblade I, 10% Blur Effect, +1 AC, To-Hit & Reflex Save
15 Points Spent: Haste Lasts 50% Longer
20 Points Spent: Swiftblade II, 20% Blur Effect, +2 AC, To-Hit & Reflex Save, All Hits deal an extra 1d6 Untyped Damage
25 Points Spent: Haste Lasts 100% Longer & Cannot be Dispelled
30 Points Spent: Swiftblade III, 30% Blur Effect, +4 AC, To-Hit & Reflex Save, All Hits deal an extra 2d6 Untyped Damage
41 Points Spent: Perpetual Celerity - When any Haste effect is on you it lasts until Rest/Death

The PrE Tree itself would likely have a bunch of movement related things like increased run speed, immunity to knockdown, freedom of movement, balance, jump, tumble,etc.

Sokól
10-03-2013, 03:17 PM
I am going to use your word, this news is glorious :)

Failedlegend
10-03-2013, 03:37 PM
I am going to use your word, this news is glorious :)

Agreed...now the only 2 questions remain

1. What does everyone think the DD Tree should look like feel free to think outside of the original prestige classes box

2. When is U20 coming.

HatsuharuZ
10-03-2013, 04:18 PM
What should it look like? Well, whatever it is, it should give universal spellpower per point spent in the tree. Also, some spellpower enhancements similar to the ones in the Divine Disciple tree wouldn't go amiss. The point (for me) is to give a viable alternative to being a Savant, which focuses on one element exclusively, at the cost of being able to use another. Well, that and providing some more survivability. Survivability is not to be underestimated, especially with a sorcerer's poor saves.

voodoogroves
10-03-2013, 04:25 PM
claw / claw / bite / wings


BTW "force" savant is "Argent Savant" in CA.

HatsuharuZ
10-03-2013, 04:37 PM
It just occured to me... sorcs get bluff as a class skill. However, there is little point in this currently since sorcs do damage with spells and not sneak attacks. So what if... just what if... the devs are putting in Arcane Trickster instead of DD? They could combine AT with Eldritch Knight and potentially make a melee combatant that can do sneak attacks and thus make use of this. I know that it would be unpopular, but with Feather's purposefully vague comments, it's entirely possible.

After all, DD is all about gaining power from having a dragon in ones' lineage, and gaining benefits that match the color of that dragon. We already have something like that in the form of the elemental Savants and the Draconic Incarnation ED. So it's entirely possible that the developers have decided to go for something completely different and make a tree that doesn't rely on gameplay elements that already exist in the game.

I know, it's not what people have been asking for, but I'm just putting it out there. It's entirely feasible, though it would be unpopular at first.

Failedlegend
10-03-2013, 04:55 PM
claw / claw / bite / wings


btw "force" savant is "argent savant" in ca.

ca?

Sokól
10-03-2013, 04:57 PM
Agreed...now the only 2 questions remain

1. What does everyone think the DD Tree should look like feel free to think outside of the original prestige classes box

2. When is U20 coming.

Well I stopped playing pnp 20 years ago so I do not know what the DD looks like there but I am assuming that the Draconic ED was based on it.

I can see some draconic skin thing adding prr and maybe something else.

Some form of wings or levitation would be fun.

but my gut feeling tells me it is some combo of force savant and DD...

voodoogroves
10-03-2013, 05:20 PM
ca?

Complete Arcane, D&D 3.5 expansion book. You may see people playing games with "everything", "core" (PHB, DMG, MM) ... or more often "core+completes". It's were lots of the other prestiges are from (Occult Slayer, Thief Acrobat, Ravager, Knight of the Chalice, etc.) - from those Complete (*) books.

Also sometimes called "splat" books, in reference to the asterisk as a wildcard.

voodoogroves
10-03-2013, 05:21 PM
Well I stopped playing pnp 20 years ago so I do not know what the DD looks like there but I am assuming that the Draconic ED was based on it.

I can see some draconic skin thing adding prr and maybe something else.

Some form of wings or levitation would be fun.

but my gut feeling tells me it is some combo of force savant and DD...

Here's the Dragon Disciple: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/dragonDisciple.htm

Havok.cry
10-03-2013, 06:29 PM
If they give them claw attacks and do not give them access to the natural fighting feat without taking druid levels, then I will question their intelligence more than I already do.

To be honest though I really really hope that it is eldritch knight or something else other than dragon disciple. Red wizard would be cool, but that one should be the third wizard tree, not sorc.

Failedlegend
10-03-2013, 07:19 PM
If they give them claw attacks and do not give them access to the natural fighting feat without taking druid levels, then I will question their intelligence more than I already do.


Don't tell them that the TWF line is much superior. :P

HatsuharuZ
10-03-2013, 07:20 PM
Think about it... it's possible in PnP, and Turbine is (hopefully) aware that bards need another tree, as sorcs do. Furthermore, bards get spellcraft as a class skill, but no spells that spellcraft applies to. Don't forget that Turbine has already decided to save time by having clerics and fvs share a tree. It's not impossible. :D

whereispowderedsilve
10-03-2013, 07:33 PM
Think about it... it's possible in PnP, and Turbine is (hopefully) aware that bards need another tree, as sorcs do. Furthermore, bards get spellcraft as a class skill, but no spells that spellcraft applies to. Don't forget that Turbine has already decided to save time by having clerics and fvs share a tree. It's not impossible. :D

Insert Picard meme cos I am busy studying(or lazy take your pick) MAKE IT SO! :P! :)! :D!

Deathdefy
10-03-2013, 09:48 PM
Well given Sorcs already have 4 prestiges, however similar they may be, I sincerely hope it's Thaumaturgist and Wizards get access too.

Forcing all of us who don't want to be Shiradis into taking Pale Master is lame and has turned 'Wizard' into 'Necromancer'.

Failedlegend
10-03-2013, 10:22 PM
Well given Sorcs already have 4 prestiges, however similar they may be, I sincerely hope it's Thaumaturgist and Wizards get access too.

Forcing all of us who don't want to be Shiradis into taking Pale Master is lame and has turned 'Wizard' into 'Necromancer'.

Sorcs only have 1 PrE it just happens to have different versions for each element, its still only one PrE

toaftoaf
10-03-2013, 10:31 PM
they have a "Quality Assurance team"? all lies i tell you

Charononus
10-03-2013, 10:57 PM
Here's the Dragon Disciple: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/dragonDisciple.htm

Seems like the good stuff from it is already in the draconic ed. I'm honestly unsure what this would bring to ddo at this point. It's nice in pnp but after brushing up on it, I don't see what it adds to ddo.

voodoogroves
10-04-2013, 04:14 AM
Seems like the good stuff from it is already in the draconic ed. I'm honestly unsure what this would bring to ddo at this point. It's nice in pnp but after brushing up on it, I don't see what it adds to ddo.

Only thing it adds is natural attacks. The last things Sorcs need is another prestige where they pick an element type and have a capstone that turns them into something else.

This is why I'm thinking Thaumaturgist is more likely.

Sokól
10-04-2013, 04:26 AM
Only thing it adds is natural attacks. The last things Sorcs need is another prestige where they pick an element type and have a capstone that turns them into something else.

This is why I'm thinking Thaumaturgist is more likely.

I agree it is to similar to draconic and ty for the link.

Wizza
10-04-2013, 04:47 AM
Well, since I dislike Battlemages, specially on classes like Wizzies and Sorcerers, I hope they will at least give us some defensive buffs in the first tiers so we can get them on our Savants. Kinda like the Warpriest offers a nice 10 PRR and some hp.

Failedlegend
10-04-2013, 06:37 AM
I agree it is to similar to draconic and ty for the link.

Magister is similar to Archmage
GMoF is similar to Monk
Shiradi is similar to AA
Fury of the Wild is similar to Barbarian

Yet their all widely used...assuming it is DD they'll probably make the abilities harmonize with each other.

Also EDs are Epic Only and not everyone has them (I Do BTW). Don't forget that.

Sokól
10-04-2013, 08:34 AM
Magister is similar to Archmage
GMoF is similar to Monk
Shiradi is similar to AA
Fury of the Wild is similar to Barbarian

Yet their all widely used...assuming it is DD they'll probably make the abilities harmonize with each other.

Also EDs are Epic Only and not everyone has them (I Do BTW). Don't forget that.

Hope you are right would be fun to have 2 dragon breaths.

What do you think the capstone would be, if the pre is DD? Transform into a dragon :)

Failedlegend
10-04-2013, 08:40 AM
Hope you are right would be fun to have 2 dragon breaths.

They'll either stack or have separate cooldowns, or who are we kidding they'll be really buggy and somehow break handwraps and nerf paladins :P



What do you think the capstone would be, if the pre is DD? Transform into a dragon :)

Yeah but have it work like the Monk "Perfect Self" not like Wizard Forms...IOW have it be permanent instead of a toggle (at least until you reset enhancements but w/e :P)

AtomicMew
10-04-2013, 08:38 PM
I approve of more paladin nerfs!

HatsuharuZ
10-05-2013, 07:39 PM
I'm calling it right now: Turbine is going to save developer time by making a single tree and applying it to two different classes, one of which is sorcerer.

Charononus
10-05-2013, 07:42 PM
I'm calling it right now: Turbine is going to save developer time by making a single tree and applying it to two different classes, one of which is sorcerer.

That would buff bards, won't happen

Satyriasys
10-05-2013, 07:46 PM
Fleshy Sorcs need a way to heal like Wizard has with Palemaster. It's rare you find a Sorc that isn't Warforged. I hope whatever the new tree is it addresses this issue.

SirValentine
10-05-2013, 08:06 PM
...I'm thinking Thaumaturgist is more likely.


I sure hope not. Creating a tree based on a divine-only prestige class, and then giving it to Sorcs instead of divines... <grrrr>

However, despite the one recent bright note of Divine Disciple, Turbine's overall track record for showing any kind of respect to divines is pretty low. So you might be right.

SirValentine
10-05-2013, 08:08 PM
Fleshy Sorcs need a way to heal like Wizard has with Palemaster.


Don't most fleshy Sorcs have a high Charisma, and then heal themselves with UMD?

Charononus
10-05-2013, 08:17 PM
Don't most fleshy Sorcs have a high Charisma, and then heal themselves with UMD?

iirc they lost their wand and scroll mastery making this a less attractive option.

voodoogroves
10-05-2013, 08:20 PM
Don't most fleshy Sorcs have a high Charisma, and then heal themselves with UMD?

Or cocoon.

And even w/o Wand/Scroll boosts it still works ok.

HatsuharuZ
10-05-2013, 10:09 PM
That would buff bards, won't happen

Why not?

Charononus
10-05-2013, 10:23 PM
Why not?

Combat log:

HatsuharuZ rolls a 1 on a save vs sarcasm: critical failure
HatsuharuZ takes 1000 points of sarcasm damage

HatsuharuZ
10-05-2013, 11:40 PM
Combat log:

HatsuharuZ rolls a 1 on a save vs sarcasm: critical failure
HatsuharuZ takes 1000 points of sarcasm damage

I did fail the save, since you forgot to cast "sarcasm tag" before the fight. :P

Charononus
10-05-2013, 11:57 PM
I did fail the save, since you forgot to cast "sarcasm tag" before the fight. :P

Never get into a fair fight, they're too easy to lose. =P

Failedlegend
10-06-2013, 08:17 AM
I'm calling it right now: Turbine is going to save developer time by making a single tree and applying it to two different classes, one of which is sorcerer.

Your saying that like its a bad thing Bards getting DD would be awesome


I sure hope not. Creating a tree based on a divine-only prestige class, and then giving it to Sorcs instead of divines... <grrrr>

Agreed same reason I eliminated it from possible prestige classes....mind you they could just mess with all of us and give them duelist :P

HatsuharuZ
10-06-2013, 10:13 AM
Your saying that like its a bad thing Bards getting DD would be awesome

Is that how it came out? ><

That wasn't my intention. I'm just a bit annoyed with how Turbine didn't give FvS their own melee tree, and instead had them share one with clerics.

Siskel
10-11-2013, 12:16 PM
Looks like Sorcerers and Wizards are getting Eldritch Knight. Update 20 is out on Lam.

HatsuharuZ
10-12-2013, 09:26 AM
Heh, I was right about the two classes sharing a tree! Didn't expect Eldritch Knight, though.

HastyPudding
10-12-2013, 10:24 AM
I never expected them to add dragon disciple, as it's too good of a pure class. Eldritch knight will be great for this (unfortunate, in my opinion) multiclass binge Turbine is on right now, as wizards and sorcerers simply don't meet the BAB requirements to delve deeply into most weapon style feats until level 15+. I expect to see a ton of paladin/sorcerer builds and wizard/fighter/monk splashes.