PDA

View Full Version : 28pt Spellsinger w rogue splash? Can it be done?



rnrsh
10-03-2013, 09:06 AM
I've been wanting to try out a Spellsinger (f2p races) for a new solo toon, or maybe as part of a duo with a Barbarian. Would like 2 levels of Rogue for evade and overall usefulness, and in later levels would like to be CC-focused with some healing.
Most of the builds I've seen that splash rogue or rogue/fighter are either 32pts or Warchanters, while most of the Spellsinger builds stay pure. Is this because it's too hard to make a 28pt SS that can multiclass and stay alive while soloing? Or is it because you lose too much value when not staying pure SS? I'm not totally opposed to going WC or also splashing fighter, just kind of wanted to avoid the "fighter with a few spells" feel that so many of my toons have, so it seems that a CC focus would provide some variety.
If anyone can direct me to such a build or provide insight as to what does and doesn't work about this idea, I'd appreciate it.

A_Sheep2
10-06-2013, 09:29 PM
I've been wanting to try out a Spellsinger (f2p races) for a new solo toon, or maybe as part of a duo with a Barbarian. Would like 2 levels of Rogue for evade and overall usefulness, and in later levels would like to be CC-focused with some healing.
Most of the builds I've seen that splash rogue or rogue/fighter are either 32pts or Warchanters, while most of the Spellsinger builds stay pure. Is this because it's too hard to make a 28pt SS that can multiclass and stay alive while soloing? Or is it because you lose too much value when not staying pure SS? I'm not totally opposed to going WC or also splashing fighter, just kind of wanted to avoid the "fighter with a few spells" feel that so many of my toons have, so it seems that a CC focus would provide some variety.
If anyone can direct me to such a build or provide insight as to what does and doesn't work about this idea, I'd appreciate it.

Bards gain spells and spell points at a lower rate than the other casters, so a spellsinger is going to be hindered by a splash while levelling up. You'll always be missing that next spell slot or level of spell.

At cap, you will have less spell penetration and will miss out on the Spellsinger "capstone" which grants the heal spell (in addition to +2 more cha).

All this being said, it could work, sure! Just take any spellsinger build, cut down the stats a bit (or probably go with a drow for the bonus to cha (and int for skill points)), replace the first level with rogue to get the massive skill points at level 1 and then make the rest of your levels bard and splash in the second rogue level whenever you want to get evasion. It will not be a "master" of CC, but you'll have fascinate that will be as good as a pure bard (if you keep perform maxed) and probably do okay on spell DC's, you'll just get your spells a little later.

Thrudh
10-06-2013, 09:52 PM
My 28-point character that I used to unlock 32-point characters way back in the old days was a drow bard/rogue (16/4) that did very well.

Drow get bonuses to CHA, DEX, and INT making them an effective 32-point build if you care about those stats... And a bard/rogue does use all three of those stats.

Take rogue level at 1,6,11,16...

Or just go with 2 levels of rogue at 1 and like 8 or 9.

Wanesa
10-07-2013, 01:26 AM
I've been wanting to try out a Spellsinger (f2p races) for a new solo toon, or maybe as part of a duo with a Barbarian. Would like 2 levels of Rogue for evade and overall usefulness, and in later levels would like to be CC-focused with some healing.

Why everybody needs evasion. I am playing well without it!

supott
10-07-2013, 03:44 AM
it can be done.

You could go TWF for 3 feats or THF with more Spell penetration and Enchantment and less DPS.

However, if you don't plan on running Elite streak, 2 Rogue isn't really needed. Heal and Wail are also nice + you get capstone bonus to Charisma for higher DC's. Bards get good reflex even without evasion so soloing Elite and passing thru traps is even possible. I find that my decision to stay Pure for my last Bard was a good one. There were times I wanted that evasion, but overall didn't find it necessary and think the Pure is stronger now.

AzB
10-07-2013, 09:08 AM
The issue is being spread too thin stat-wise. As a bard wishing to CC, you need CHA. As a rogue, you will need some INT, and evasion is useless without some investment in DEX. If you want to melee at all you'll need STR, and of course CON. The only dump stat is WIS.

Many of these issues can be helped with feat selection, but the bard is very feat starved.

Gear can help too, but as this is a first life toon, you probably don't have much gear.

Tomes would help, but as pointed out, you need pretty much all stats so a +4 supreme is going to almost be mandatory.

Okay, that covers the problems. Here are some ideas:

Build for melee with a small bump in INT and DEX for rogue splash mostly for traps but if you evade once in a while, that's a bonus. You'll still need some CHA, but you can start with a 14 or less if you have tomes. For CC, use fascinate/enthrall and boost your performance skill as much as possible. You'll have to train your barbarian how to work with fascinate. This toon will not work well in PUGs however, as they will expect you to die getting traps and I don't think there's ever been a recorded incidence of fascinate/enthrall being used in a PUG unless it was very far away from the group or a freak accident. Max STR and CON for survivability. Skills will be tight, but trapping and perform will be primary focus. UMD will help a lot with the healing, but mostly later on. For feats, concentrate on melee feats; PA, cleave, great cleave, IC slashing/bludgeon/whatever based on favorite weapon type etc. You can use any weapon with Master's Touch, and I would suggest a THF weapon. If you're going to be doing much healing at all, empower healing, and maybe quicken. Gear-wise, there are lots of nice THF weapons around, be prepared to change depending on enemy type. Parasitic Breastplate upgraded with +10 reflex can give your evasion a real boost, and the AC for light armor isn't bad either. Another good feat is the Force of Personality feat which is highly recommended for high CHA/dumped WIS toons.

Or, you can focus on CHA for better UMD, CC, more sp, etc. There are a few CHA to damage items floating around that will give you some melee ability, but it will be more limited as you won't be able to have a smiting weapon, a holy weapon etc.
If you can dump STR it will allow you bring up INT and DEX a bit giving you much better reflex and trapping abilities. You can focus more on casting feats and provide better healing, in effect being a support toon for your barb friend. This will be a lot harder to solo many quests though as your dps will be mediocre at best, and downright horrible in some cases.

Or you can go pure bard as mentioned above. Early on, most traps won't kill you if you have any kind of hp. And later on, you can generally rely on jumping/timing for many traps. There are exceptions, and for those a rogue is very handy. It's totally up to you whether it's worth using that much of your limited resources to add enough rogue to make the toon viable for those circumstances.

There's also the bardcher. I have no personal experience with this build, but a quick search should find you all sorts of ideas.

Or you could just roll a monk. They can do everything including casting now. Tons of feats, self healing, rezzing you and your party, SLAs, tactical abilities, evasion, high AC from their primary stat, great saves, speedy movement... I'm not sure why anyone would not play a monk unless they just don't like video games and would rather play an RPG. Sadly, you cannot splash monk with bard which is the most common fix for broken classes or "exploiter" builds.