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View Full Version : Long past due for quest XP to get balanced properly



sephiroth1084
10-01-2013, 01:05 PM
Developers: pick a number (N) of quest completions that it should take to go from level X to level Y, at any character level (1-2, 15-16, 27-28, whatever), then set the XP for all the quests in that range to 1/N. For example, if you want it to take 10 completions to level up, then set the XP for all the quests of that level to 1/10th the total XP required to advance that level.

Then adjust up or down based on length and difficulty of each quest, including things like special requirements (needs a trapper, or 3 additional players, specialty equipment, or the patience of a saint to run a rat through a maze) and bump quests up or down by 10, 25 or 50%.

That will encourage players to run a greater variety of content (rather than rerunning the same, high-yield XP quests over and over), while also not making stuff like your shiny new expansion ****ing WORTHLESS to run for XP. We absolutely should never have quests at level 20 providing less XP than quests at level 9, for example. That's just poor game design, exacerbated by there being fewer quests at the top end than there are at the bottom.

redspecter23
10-01-2013, 01:55 PM
Developers: pick a number (N) of quest completions that it should take to go from level X to level Y, at any character level (1-2, 15-16, 27-28, whatever), then set the XP for all the quests in that range to 1/N. For example, if you want it to take 10 completions to level up, then set the XP for all the quests of that level to 1/10th the total XP required to advance that level.

Then adjust up or down based on length and difficulty of each quest, including things like special requirements (needs a trapper, or 3 additional players, specialty equipment, or the patience of a saint to run a rat through a maze) and bump quests up or down by 10, 25 or 50%.

That will encourage players to run a greater variety of content (rather than rerunning the same, high-yield XP quests over and over), while also not making stuff like your shiny new expansion ****ing WORTHLESS to run for XP. We absolutely should never have quests at level 20 providing less XP than quests at level 9, for example. That's just poor game design, exacerbated by there being fewer quests at the top end than there are at the bottom.

Well with xp curve changes coming soon, this would be the time to start looking at quest xp changes as well. I can't help but think that we as players would end up losing overall by any "looking" at xp done. I'd expect serious nerfs to von3 and shadow crypt before even one tiny bump anywhere else.

I honestly can't understand the hesitation here. Even the newest expansion, that they are trying to make money off of, has pathetically low relative xp compared to other quests. I can get the whole bait and switch thing with the challenges. I don't like it, but I get the angle. Making a new expansion that you want players to be excited over and packaging it with not just sub par xp, but absolutely laughable xp doesn't make any sense at all.

sephiroth1084
10-01-2013, 02:21 PM
I think the devs are perpetually terrified of accidentally giving a quest too much XP and discovering it has turned into a 2-min XP run, so they under-value everything.

Either that, or whoever is working on XP rewards is a complete moron.

That may be seen as a bit harsh, but the game has been out long enough, and with enough feedback from the players, and data collected to have a pretty good sense of what is a reasonable amount of XP for a quest of a given level. They shouldn't be continuing to make these kinds of mistakes.

Teh_Troll
10-01-2013, 02:26 PM
/signed

What especially ridiculous is the XP in the quests of the 'expansion' being pathetic. The base should be doubled on everything.

AZgreentea
10-01-2013, 02:30 PM
I haven't been following this very closely, since I only have first lifers. Its so ridiculously easy to get xp in most quests, and I hit lvl 20 on a wilderness only with no issues. XP balancing has never been an issue for me, since its so abundant.

but

Wouldn't this mean lowering the XP for most quests? I mean, we have so much content you can skip most whole chains and still hit cap on a first TR with no repetitions. Which I suppose brings up another point. Do you want them to tune the system for a first lifer, 1TR, 2TR, or 3TR?

Grosbeak07
10-01-2013, 02:41 PM
I haven't been following this very closely, since I only have first lifers. Its so ridiculously easy to get xp in most quests, and I hit lvl 20 on a wilderness only with no issues. XP balancing has never been an issue for me, since its so abundant.

but

Wouldn't this mean lowering the XP for most quests? I mean, we have so much content you can skip most whole chains and still hit cap on a first TR with no repetitions. Which I suppose brings up another point. Do you want them to tune the system for a first lifer, 1TR, 2TR, or 3TR?

My dream is the get rid of they difference between a 2nd and 3rd life TR and simply have TR xp vs non-TR xp. The added xp on a 3rd + life was simply an artificial grind while we had little to nothing else to do. The advent of 8 (soon 10) epic levels and content, means I don't see the need for this artificial barrier anymore. Make a 2nd life TR xp total (3,139,250) the standard for TR's. This I bet would get even more people TR'ing and people moving through all levels of the game again.

Qhualor
10-01-2013, 02:42 PM
re-doing quest xp is the best solution to get players to run a wider variety of quests. its a big job im sure, but it should have been done a long time ago. quest xp ransack didn't stop/slow down/discourage farming the usual high xp quests. people just run it like 5x instead of 10x and with daily bonus (which is a temporary fix for mainly mid level quests) nothing really has changed.

ssgcmwatson
10-01-2013, 04:55 PM
My dream is the get rid of they difference between a 2nd and 3rd life TR and simply have TR xp vs non-TR xp. The added xp on a 3rd + life was simply an artificial grind while we had little to nothing else to do. The advent of 8 (soon 10) epic levels and content, means I don't see the need for this artificial barrier anymore. Make a 2nd life TR xp total (3,139,250) the standard for TR's. This I bet would get even more people TR'ing and people moving through all levels of the game again.

I think the third life XP curve comes along with the 36-point build. It might be interesting to give users the option when TRing to decide if they want the stat points or the lower XP curve.

sephiroth1084
10-01-2013, 05:02 PM
I haven't been following this very closely, since I only have first lifers. Its so ridiculously easy to get xp in most quests, and I hit lvl 20 on a wilderness only with no issues. XP balancing has never been an issue for me, since its so abundant.

but

Wouldn't this mean lowering the XP for most quests? I mean, we have so much content you can skip most whole chains and still hit cap on a first TR with no repetitions. Which I suppose brings up another point. Do you want them to tune the system for a first lifer, 1TR, 2TR, or 3TR?
First, I hope to see the additional XP required for TR beyond the first go away. As others have said, both here and elsewhere on these boards, it was silly and largely unnecessary when we had no epic levels, and is ludicrous/pointless now that we do.

Second, yes, it would still mean that first life characters would level through the game rather swiftly, assuming the devs decide on a number that's fairly low. Personally, I think somewhere between 15 and 20 at-level quests, run on hard, with a streak, should be the goal for XP/level on a normal character, which would allow for players to level more quickly on an elite streak, for quests with much higher than standard XP to not totally disrupt the leveling process, and for players running on normal or casual to have a slower time of things, which would in turn result in their seeing more content.

Part of the goal, here, would be to lessen the gap between good XP/min/investment quests and poor ones without simply nerfing XP, but by raising the bar a bit across the board and then tweaking it. Ideally, running, say, The Crucible should be comparative to running A Cabal For One in terms of XP/minute and XP/challenge. Right now, you can run several Cabals in the time it takes to run one Crucible, and will net considerably more XP in total, and through a much easier quest. And that is largely true for much of the game.

If you're concerned about people breezing by content, well, that appears to be Turbine's goal. After all, we have Veteran Status I to bypass the first 3 levels of the game, Vet II to bypass the first 6, stones of XP to skip levels 8-15 or whatever, and Iconics that allow you to skip the first 15 levels of DDO (which is where most of the content lies...and some of the better quests). There's simply no way to balance the game against players leveling too quickly on a first life character and missing content. It's up to them to "smell the roses" as it were.

Plus, leaving content untouched when leveling to 20(28) means that leveling an alt is more rewarding, as you get to try new quests on the way.