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Clemeit
09-29-2013, 09:13 PM
Not sure I'm understanding the way this is calculated...

Shadow Veil is 25% incorporeal. Displace is 50% concealment.

While Displacement doesn't stack with other concealment bonuses such as Blur or Dusk (http://ddowiki.com/page/Displacement), it does stack with Incorporeal. Or at least I greatly assume it does or nobody would even bother with it.

How then is this calculated?

(1-.5)*(1-.25)=37% chance to hit (63% miss).
or is it (more simply):
100% chance to hit - 50% miss - 25% miss = 25% chance to hit (75% miss).

I assume it is the second one. But I know heal amp works multiplicatively so this may too...

Help? :D

NOTE from Soulfurnace! Take into account the 5% miss chance from AC that everyone has because of mobs missing on a 1.

And thanks to Krelar, FuzzyDuck81, and Soulfurnace for telling me it's the first one!
New equation for Displacement, Shadow Veil, and no AC:
(1-.05)*(1-.5)*(1-.25)=35% chance to hit (65% miss).

Krelar
09-29-2013, 10:37 PM
Not sure I'm understanding the way this is calculated...

Shadow Veil is 25% incorporeal. Displace is 50% concealment.

While Displacement doesn't stack with other concealment bonuses such as Blur or Dusk (http://ddowiki.com/page/Displacement), it does stack with Incorporeal. Or at least I greatly assume it does or nobody would even bother with it.

How then is this calculated?

(1-.5)*(1-.25)=37% chance to hit (63% miss).
or is it (more simply):
100% chance to hit - 50% miss - 25% miss = 25% chance to hit (75% miss).

I assume it is the second one. But I know heal amp works multiplicatively so...

Help? :D

It's the first one. I'm not sure which order things are checked in, and it doesn't actually matter as far as how likely you are to get hit, but it check one bonus first and if they manage to get past that then it checks the next bonus.

FuzzyDuck81
09-30-2013, 04:27 AM
Dodge, incorporeal, concealment & AC are all independent miss chances - if it gets through 1 layer of defence, then the % chance of the next layer is calculated seperately, so the 1st option.

Dodge appears to be checked first - tested with meld into darkness from shadowdancer as it gives +100% dodge chance & in a group of enemies i was only getting "dodge" appear. Not sure about the other ones, but I'd presume AC is probably the last one.

Soulfurnace
09-30-2013, 04:30 AM
Minor note, always include the *.95 you get from AC.
Don't care what your AC is, .95 is accurate. :P

Also, if it was the second one, would mobs heal me? I have 50% incorp, 27% dodge, 25% incorp for 102%. Surely I'm being healed. And invincible. (So it must be the first)

Clemeit
09-30-2013, 09:55 AM
It's the first one. I'm not sure which order things are checked in, and it doesn't actually matter as far as how likely you are to get hit, but it check one bonus first and if they manage to get past that then it checks the next bonus.

Thank you Krelar for the fast response.

Clemeit
09-30-2013, 09:57 AM
Dodge, incorporeal, concealment & AC are all independent miss chances - if it gets through 1 layer of defence, then the % chance of the next layer is calculated seperately, so the 1st option.

Dodge appears to be checked first - tested with meld into darkness from shadowdancer as it gives +100% dodge chance & in a group of enemies i was only getting "dodge" appear. Not sure about the other ones, but I'd presume AC is probably the last one.

Thanks. Also, I don't think the order matters in the end when they are calculated multiplicatively, but yeah, I guess it still matters because of how the game handles it.

Clemeit
09-30-2013, 09:57 AM
Minor note, always include the *.95 you get from AC.
Don't care what your AC is, .95 is accurate. :P

Also, if it was the second one, would mobs heal me? I have 50% incorp, 27% dodge, 25% incorp for 102%. Surely I'm being healed. And invincible. (So it must be the first)

Thanks, and good addition haha xD

Failedlegend
09-30-2013, 01:14 PM
Its a separate check for each layer of defense...I'm pretty sure it check Dodge, than Incorp, than concealment, than AC

Using my Wizard/Fighter/Rogue as an example the game checks 75% chance to-hit vs. dodge, than 65% chance to hit vs. Incorp, than 50% to hit vs. Displacement, than I don't really know vs. AC but mines 89...even if your AC is 10 its at most a 95% chance to hit due to mobs rolling a one.

I'm not sure how to calculate 25% + 35% + 50% + 5% (or more..game says 64% defense chance at level though)

visibleman
09-30-2013, 01:24 PM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Miss_chance

Failedlegend
09-30-2013, 02:00 PM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Miss_chance

I think I failed at using the formula correctly...it put out a 95.6% miss chance for a character in Improved Wraith form (35%), with displacement (50%) and max dodge (25%).

Krelar
09-30-2013, 02:14 PM
I think I failed at using the formula correctly...it put out a 95.6% miss chance for a character in Improved Wraith form (35%), with displacement (50%) and max dodge (25%).

If your looking at this: Miss chance % = (1-(D*C*I))*100
You need to look at the lines above that for calculating D, C and I. It sounds like you're putting in your dodge concealment and incorporeal values directly instead of doing the 100-dodge etc.

Failedlegend
09-30-2013, 03:24 PM
If your looking at this: Miss chance % = (1-(D*C*I))*100
You need to look at the lines above that for calculating D, C and I. It sounds like you're putting in your dodge concealment and incorporeal values directly instead of doing the 100-dodge etc.

OK well I fail at that than I keep getting 95.6% whats the ACTUAL % for 35/50/25.

Krelar
09-30-2013, 03:54 PM
OK well I fail at that than I keep getting 95.6% whats the ACTUAL % for 35/50/25.

1-(1-.35)*(1-.5)*(1-.25) = .75625 or 75.625%

Failedlegend
09-30-2013, 07:42 PM
1-(1-.35)*(1-.5)*(1-.25) = .75625 or 75.625%

Sounds pretty amazing to me :D

TeacherSyn
10-01-2013, 10:53 AM
Sounds pretty amazing to me :D

Amazing is right. Pale Masters in this setup should have the best miss-chance of any class. You certainly have the best Incorporeal. Maybe only Shadowdancers as Ninja Spies can get close with getting a 25% persistent incorporeal with Shadow Form, 28% Dodge cap, but there are others who can do Displacement better and longer.

My, this sounds more like an ad for Enzyte or something.