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Exiledtyrant
09-28-2013, 11:51 PM
is there something about the tempest ranger top tier abilities I'm missing? 6-15 seconds of action for 1-2 minutes of down time seems really bad. The effects look really awesome but the duration coupled with the down time really put me off. Much like how boost are somewhat limited to awesome effects with few charges that is the kind of feeling I get towards tempest attacks besides bleed them out.

Inoukchuk
09-29-2013, 05:23 PM
There is nothing appealing on the 5th tier of tempest, but the first 4 are really nice which is why you see ranger being played as a secondary class in most TWF builds now (fighter as primary). Even if you were to build with ranger as primary I would go 11/8/1 rng/ftr/monk and use tier 5 kensei abilities. There are so very many really nice abilities in the enhancements now that even if you made a pure 20 tempest I still probably wouldn't take my tier 5 abilities in tempest, instead putting heavy investment into DeS and AA, and possibly using tier 5 from one of those trees (but really you want kensei or assassin IMO).

In short, I wouldn't waste the points on the tempest tier 5 stuff, which should be improved I think. It should be something like:
Ambidexterity (2ap) (req. tier 4 whirling blades) - your off hand attacks now gain full stat bonus (str or dex, or even int if you're the type) to damage.
Storm of Blades (1ap) (req Ambidexterity) - you now have a 10/20/30% chance of attacking with your off hand on attacks that are normally restricted to primary hand (e.g. cleave, adrenaline)
Eviscerate (1ap) - make an attack with each hand at +1/3/5[W] and +1/2/3 critical threat range; on critical deal 250 extra damage (30 sec cooldown)
Untouchable (1ap) - gain 2/4/6 dodge bonus when wielding 2 weapons or fighting unarmed.

Or make Ambidexterity the capstone. The capstones aren't appealing enough ATM to make most people consider going straight class, something like that would IMO be appropriate, appealing, and balanced.

Vellrad
09-29-2013, 05:25 PM
Compare similiar abilities of tempests and ninjas.

Both got a hit which increases doublestrike for short amout of time.
Ranger 30%, Ninja 100%.

T5s need boost.

redspecter23
09-29-2013, 05:30 PM
is there something about the tempest ranger top tier abilities I'm missing? 6-15 seconds of action for 1-2 minutes of down time seems really bad. The effects look really awesome but the duration coupled with the down time really put me off. Much like how boost are somewhat limited to awesome effects with few charges that is the kind of feeling I get towards tempest attacks besides bleed them out.

Problem is, it's too little benefit for the duration and cooldown. Also the fact that there is too much of that theme in Tempest to begin with is just very poor design. They have so many variables to work with but the Tempest designer just went with

Short Duration
Moderate Power Increase
Long Cooldown

These sort of abilities are ok in very small quantities, but more than one per tree just seems pointless. If the power increase was astronomical then a short 6 second duration is justified. If people are pulling out math to try and prove that there is any substantial increase whatsoever, then it's not justified to have such a short duration combined with a long cooldown.

For 6 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown I'd want something along the lines of:
+100% offhand proc chance
+100% mainhand and offhand doublestrike chance
+2 critical multiplier on all 19/20 critical hits for the duration
+30% swing speed.

This is what I'm looking for if it's 6 second duration with 2 minute cooldown. Maybe I'm asking for too much. Increase the cooldown or reduce the duration. My point is, make it worth my time to even bother clicking in the first place.

EllisDee37
09-29-2013, 05:58 PM
Isn't Improved Evasion one of the tier 5s in the tempest tree?

hucka
09-29-2013, 07:23 PM
Isn't Improved Evasion one of the tier 5s in the tempest tree?

thats darkwood stalker

EllisDee37
09-29-2013, 07:26 PM
thats darkwood stalkerNo it isn't, it's tempest.

hucka
09-29-2013, 07:28 PM
whoops, my bad, kinda mixed that up...youre right, improved evasion is there

through unless youre STR based that alone is not worth a T5 though

Teh_Troll
09-29-2013, 07:31 PM
Compare similiar abilities of tempests and ninjas.

Both got a hit which increases doublestrike for short amout of time.
Ranger 30%, Ninja 100%.

T5s need boost.

You're forgetting how much Turbine loves their Pay2Win monks, no way a F2P class gets that much of a boost ever.

FestusHood
09-29-2013, 09:38 PM
The tempest doublestrike is 90%, but it only lasts for 6 seconds. It also has an enormous cooldown. Then there is the other ability, that basically gives you +10 damage for 15 seconds. Wouldn't be so bad, but again, it has an enormous cooldown.

arcattaii
09-29-2013, 10:18 PM
The Tempest capstone 'Dervish' should be very powerful in theory (25%off-hand double strike plus PTWF will make tempests' off-hand hit much more than their main-hand), but currently the off-hand double strike is broken.

Only when main-hand DS occurs, off-hand DS will have a chance to occur.
For example, if you have 10% main-hand DS and 35% off-hand DS, the real off-hand DS equals to 10%×35%=3.5%

I don't think it is WAI. I bug reported it but don't know whether turbine will fix it or not.

Exiledtyrant
09-30-2013, 02:44 AM
I'd like to thank everyone for their input. I was hoping against hope i was skimming over some mechanic or class splash that would make these abilities more useable. 1-2 minutes is far to long for their duration. I can't commit myself to that much ap spent for something I'll use maybe once every 10 fights or so. I already have a problem with some attacks being on 30 second timers let alone these 1min+ ones. Hopefully they are improved later on. Your not supposed to climb to the summit of your class and find out the view sucks.

EllisDee37
09-30-2013, 03:26 AM
I'd like to thank everyone for their input. I was hoping against hope i was skimming over some mechanic or class splash that would make these abilities more useable. 1-2 minutes is far to long for their duration. I can't commit myself to that much ap spent for something I'll use maybe once every 10 fights or so. I already have a problem with some attacks being on 30 second timers let alone these 1min+ ones. Hopefully they are improved later on. Your not supposed to climb to the summit of your class and find out the view sucks.Agreed that the melee attacks blow due to the cooldowns.

I can barely tolerate 15 second cooldowns on melee attacks. (eg: Smite Foe, Stunning Blow) 1 or 2 minutes? That's so long I don't even read the description to find out what the attack is, I know just by the cooldown that it's not worth a hotkey.

Maelodic
10-02-2013, 07:47 PM
Bleed them Out is good and Elaborate Parry is good before you hit max dodge, everything else in the tempest line is really horrible compared to the other classes.

Deepwood Stalker and Arcane Archer on the other hand are both very powerful, and you can make a very powerful character with a DWS/Tempest split focused on Exposing Strike (or sniper snot) combined with your sneak bonuses and haste/damage boost who is exceptionally adept at both bows and melee via heavy sneak attack damage. Going for the DWS cap gives you ~90 Positive spell power and turns your manyshot into something amazing, while the other caps both kind of just suck.

For full TWF, Kensai or Assassin all the way. Monk TWF is aight, but it's not nearly as much DPS

saco
10-03-2013, 08:34 AM
Bleed them Out is good and Elaborate Parry is good before you hit max dodge, everything else in the tempest line is really horrible compared to the other classes.

Deepwood Stalker and Arcane Archer on the other hand are both very powerful, and you can make a very powerful character with a DWS/Tempest split focused on Exposing Strike (or sniper snot) combined with your sneak bonuses and haste/damage boost who is exceptionally adept at both bows and melee via heavy sneak attack damage. Going for the DWS cap gives you ~90 Positive spell power and turns your manyshot into something amazing, while the other caps both kind of just suck.

For full TWF, Kensai or Assassin all the way. Monk TWF is aight, but it's not nearly as much DPS

So does Elaborate Parry get affected by your dodge cap? Was wondering about that ability and wondered about taking it for my archer who is dodged cap already.

Maelodic
10-03-2013, 01:38 PM
So does Elaborate Parry get affected by your dodge cap? Was wondering about that ability and wondered about taking it for my archer who is dodged cap already.

I'm not sure at this point- the numbers don't actually change in your character sheet. I haven't really noticed a huge difference in using it though. I'm not dodge capped, but I'm close, but when I use it, it feels like the difference between a dusk item and not, even though it should be up 30%