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ThePrincipal
09-28-2013, 10:21 AM
I'm working out on paper a dex based acrobat using the rogue iconic race. I need some advice getting a high trip DC.

Acrobat lets you use Dex for hit/damage and gives +3 trip dc from Trip Focus. Also will take Sweeping Strikes.

I will have the int to take combat expertise for improved trip. and I can find a +10 trip staff.

however the base of trip is strength which will be low (starting 13 for PA with no level ups). what else can I do to get an end game viable trip DC without going str based?

side question, can I run CE stance and PA stance at the same time? thanks

CThruTheEgo
09-29-2013, 12:25 AM
I'm working out on paper a dex based acrobat using the rogue iconic race. I need some advice getting a high trip DC.

Acrobat lets you use Dex for hit/damage and gives +3 trip dc from Trip Focus. Also will take Sweeping Strikes.

I will have the int to take combat expertise for improved trip. and I can find a +10 trip staff.

however the base of trip is strength which will be low (starting 13 for PA with no level ups). what else can I do to get an end game viable trip DC without going str based?

You specified endgame, so I'm assuming EE Stormhorns. I think you basically have to choose between one or the other. If dex based, use sweeping strikes. If strength based, use regular trip. Either way, you're going to need a stupidly high str or dex to be effective in EE and I don't see how you could get both high enough. Maybe someone else can breakdown how to achieve it if I'm wrong.


side question, can I run CE stance and PA stance at the same time? thanks

No, only one at a time.

Charononus
09-29-2013, 12:36 AM
trip needs str to be viable, obscene amounts of it, you'd also probably want to splash 2 fighter for more tactics on top of str.

ThePrincipal
09-29-2013, 07:56 PM
i see. well the would prefer to go dex based and use sweeping strikes then because the chain attacks are dex based DC also.

sweeping strikes says its a balance dc 10 + 1/2 rogue level + dex mod

would any increase to trip dc improve the sweeping strikes? like a vertigo weapon or tactics or improved trip?

maddong
09-29-2013, 09:41 PM
Can you go PDK and pump dex then charisma to get the trip even higher?

Failedlegend
09-30-2013, 08:01 AM
trip needs str to be viable, obscene amounts of it, you'd also probably want to splash 2 fighter for more tactics on top of str.

No it doesn't sweeping strike is actually superior to trip (it has a bigger AOE) and uses Dex for DC also its formula gives it a naturally higher DC as well.

Sweeping Strike = DC 10 + Half Rogue Level + Dex

Improved Trip = DC 14 + Str

So thats DC20 + Dex VS. DC 14 + Str

Anything beyond that both have access to (vertigo,etc.)

Also a fun little option is to take a level or 2 of PDK to add their Cha Mod to the trip DC and the bonus tactics DC from Kensai these easily beat out the 1 DC lose from the rogue levels not to mention the 2 extra feats

The only downside to this is that PDK probably isn't the most optimal race for a Acrobats since Cha isn't really a important stat for them although you could just make it Dex/Cha Based with Con Secondary. I'd be tempted to splash 2 Pally as frankly the +2str/dex after tumbling is dumb and nigh unusable and Cha to saves is really nice.

Note: The PDK trick does not work for a Str Based build as it requires your Str to be lower than your Cha.

As for the OP you basically have to choose Str-Based OR Dex-Based you won't be able to get both to high enough levels to trip in any content really that TAs scream Dex Based its truly the only stat they need beyond feat pre-reqs (ie 11 Str +2 Tome for PA/Cleave/Great Cleave) than of course a decent Con for not dying.

Charononus
09-30-2013, 08:04 AM
No it doesn't sweeping strike is actually superior to trip (it has a bigger AOE) and uses Dex for DC also its formula gives it a naturally higher DC as well

Sweeping Strike = DC 10 + Half Rogue Level + Dex

Improved Trip = DC 14 + Str

So thats DC20 + Dex vs DC 14 + Str

Right I'm refering to trip or improved trip not sweeping strikes, it's the difference between stunning blow and stunning fist.

Failedlegend
09-30-2013, 08:34 AM
Right I'm refering to trip or improved trip not sweeping strikes, it's the difference between stunning blow and stunning fist.

Yeah I was just demonstrating that Sweeping Strike is better than Improved Trip...its DC is naturally higher and it has a bigger AOE, does 3[w] damage not to mention TAs just scream Dex-Based and the PDK trick. Also it counts as a cleave for Legendary Dreadnought...not sure whether that's real useful or not. The only advantage Trip has is a shorter cooldown.

Edit:Oh and it saves 2 feats (CE and IT) and build points (reqs 13 Int)

This of course is assuming its not bugged :P I haven't experienced any issues so far though (Debating Rerolling as a Dex/Cha based Rogue17/PDK1/Pally2 instead of Rogue20...not sure if its worth losing my Dex/Int focus as the mech abilities are quite fun...maybe I'll just play both)

ThePrincipal
09-30-2013, 09:36 AM
Can someone good with maths workout the potential lvl 28 trip DC for a pure 20 rogue TA using Shadar-kai?

Failedlegend
09-30-2013, 10:56 AM
Can someone good with maths workout the potential lvl 28 trip DC for a pure 20 rogue TA using Shadar-kai?

I don't know what the max Tactics DC is at Lvl 28 but I do know that Rogue18/Fighter2 has a higher DC for trip due to Kensai Tactics. the Acrobat capstone is useless due to the tumbling requirement and the short duration afterwards there's no need to remain Single-Classed...I'd also recommend going PDK for the Cha bonus to tactics instead of fighter but you obviously want to be a SK so its not possible and totally understandable SKs are cool :D