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EllisDee37
09-27-2013, 03:53 PM
Last updated Jan 8th, 2017

This THF heavy armor frontline melee build is designed to play like a paladin. As a general rule you'd be better off playing a pure paladin, but this fighter variant is still viable. I keep this character in my stable as a variation that focuses more on tactics (stunning blow and trip), action boosts (12/rest at cap with ship buffs), ameliorating strike, and as an excuse to have a Legendary Dreadnought character, as opposed to paladins who will likely be in Divine Crusader. Both Master's Blitz and Ameliorating Strike perform better for TWF, but they still function well enough with THF to be effective.

No tomes are required or listed. If you happen to have a +2 int tome put the extra skill points into Balance or Jump.

Alignment doesn't matter. In general True Neutral takes less damage from certain rare enemies, but non-neutral alignments open up the possibility for specialty twists in epics. eg: Your weapons bypass DR/Good if you're good aligned.

Human is preferred for the extra skill points and DDoor clickie. If you want to go with a different race, drop the dragonmark and sacrifice the heal skill. Ideally use a +2 int tome by level 7 to minimize the skills shortfall, but it should work even without an int tome. Non-humans get at least 9 AP to play with in either their racial tree or the various class trees.


Kensei Warpriest
12/8 Fighter/Cleric


Level Order

1. Fighter. . . . .6. Fighter. . . . 11. Cleric. . . . .16. Fighter
2. Fighter. . . . .7. Cleric. . . . .12. Fighter . . . .17. Fighter
3. Cleric. . . . . 8. Fighter . . . .13. Cleric . . . . 18. Fighter
4. Fighter. . . . .9. Cleric. . . . .14. Fighter . . . .19. Fighter
5. Cleric. . . . .10. Fighter . . . .15. Cleric . . . . 20. Cleric


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt . . 34pt . . 36pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . ---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .18. . . .18. . . .18. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . .14. . . .14. . . .16. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . 12. . . .12. . . .12. . . .12. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . . 8. . . .10. . . . 8. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 14. . . .14. . . .14. . . .14. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Skills
. . . . . F. F. C .F .C. F. C .F .C. F. C .F .C. F. C .F .F .F .F .C
. . . . . 1. 2. 3 .4 .5. 6. 7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . . .1 .4. . .3. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 23
Heal. . . 2. . . . . .1. . .3. . .3. . .3. . .3. . .3. . . . 1. . .3. 22
UMD . . . 2. . . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 11
Jump. . . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Balance . 1. 1. . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .16. 4. 4 .4 .4. 4. 4 .4 .4. 4. 4 .4 .4. 4. 4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Human. : Least Dragonmark: Passage
.1 Fighter: Cleave
.2 Fighter: Stunning Blow
.3. . . . : Weapon Focus: Slashing
.3 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.6. . . . : Great Cleave
.6 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
.9. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
10 Fighter: Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Extend Spell
13 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
14 Fighter: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
15. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
17 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
18. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
19 Fighter: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
21 Epic . : Tactical Mastery
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Heavy Armor Master
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Tactical Combatant
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Astral Plane


Spells

Cleric
Cure Light Wounds, Nightshield, Remove Fear, Protection from Evil, Divine Favor, <Any>
Cure Moderate Wounds, Resist Energy, Eagle's Splendor, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy, Prayer, <Any>
Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, <Any>

Enhancements (80 AP)

Kensei (35 AP)
Kensei Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge
Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
Tactics III, Weapon Group Specialization, Ascetic Training: Conditioning I
Weapon Group Specialization
Opportunity Attack, Weapon Group Specialization
A Good Death: Melee, Weapon Master, One with the Blade, Deadly Strike, Keen Edge

Warpriest (22 AP)
Smite Foe
Divine Might III, Toughness III
Smite Weakness, Wall of Steel III, Inflame III
Inflame: Energy Absorption III, Strength
Ameliorating Strike

Stalwart Defender (14 AP)
Toughness, Stalwart Defense
Durable Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery III
Resilient Defense III
Strong Defense III

Human (9 AP)
Damage Boost
Dragonmark Focus: Orien I, Action Surge: Strength III, Improved Recovery
Lesser Dragonmark: Dimension Door

Leveling Guide
Hum0 Damage Boost; Hum1 Dragonmark Focus: Orien I; Hum1 Improved Recovery
Ken0 Kensei Focus: Axes; Ken1 Haste Boost I, II, III
Hum1 Action Surge: Strength I; Hum2 Lesser Dragonmark: Dimension Door; War0 Smite Foe
War1 Toughness I, II; Ken1 Weapon Group Specialization
War1 Toughness III; War1 Divine Might I, II, III
War2 Smite Weakness; War2 Wall of Steel I, II
War0 Resilience of Battle; War2 Wall of Steel III; War2 Inflame I, II
War3 Strength; War2 Inflame III; War3 Inflame: Energy Absorption I
War3 Inflame: Energy Absorption II; War4 Ameliorating Strike; Ken0 Spiritual Bond
Ken2 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken2 Ascetic Training: Conditioning I; Ken0 Strike with No Thought
Ken3 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken2 Tactics I
Ken2 Tactics II, III
Ken1 Extra Action Boost I, II
Ken4 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken1 Extra Action Boost III
Ken4 Opportunity Attack; Ken2 Ascetic Training: Conditioning II; Ken5 One with the Blade
Ken5 Keen Edge; Ken5 A Good Death: Melee; Ken5 Weapon Master; Ken5 Deadly Strike
SD0 Toughness; SD1 Item Defense I; SD1 Durable Defense I, II
SD1 Durable Defense III; SD0 Stalwart Defense; SD2 Resilient Defense I, II
(Bank 4 AP)
Reset All Trees


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought
Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Strength
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack, Strength
Lay Waste, Critical Damage I
(none)
Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop

Twists of Fate (15 fate points)
Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
Boulder Toss (Tier 1 Fury)



Designed to play like a paladin, you start off with two fighter levels and then alternate the next 13 levels between cleric and fighter. This grows your self-healing with you as you level while always keeping a fighter icon in parties so you won't be mistaken for a healer. The final cleric level is pushed back to 20 since it only adds marginal benefit.

Choose the Kensei Weapon Focus applicable to your weapons, and feel free to reset the tree to change your weapon focus as you level. As an example, I use a crafted greatsword (heavy blades) from level 1 to 3, switch to carnifex (axes) from 4 to 7, back to greatswords (Sword of the Thirty & Whirlwind) from 8 to 19, then finally settle on Epic Antique Greataxe for 20+.

The leveling order for enhancements boils down to: Race to DDoor, then race to Ameliorating Strike, then race to Kensei tier 5s.

EllisDee37
09-27-2013, 03:54 PM
Casting Spells
Depending on how many build points you have, you'll start with either 8 or 10 wisdom, and you need at least 11 wisdom to cast level 1 spells. (14 wisdom to cast level 4 spells.) When you first get spells at level 3, you'll need to use Owl's Wisdom potions (find the potion vendor in the Market) to allow choosing and casting spells. Keep an eye out for wisdom items so that you don't have to rely on potions, but if your starting wisdom is 8 you won't find a +3 wisdom item until at least level 5. Note that ship buffs often grant +2 wisdom, so that can reduce how much you need from gear. In terms of named items, Sacred Band is an ML7 +4 wisdom ring you can farm up from Red Fens, even if only running casual while you're level 7 or 8.


Self Healing
Here is where this build outperforms a paladin for new players. You get cure light at level 3 and cure moderate at level 7. At level 9 you get the super fun Ameliorating Strike, plus Empower Healing Spell to give cure moderate more kick. Then at level 11 you get cure serious, followed by cure critical at 15. The one thing you won't be lacking in heroic levels is self-healing. Once you get to epic levels you can twist in Rejuvenation Cocoon from Primal Avatar to be your main source of heals.


Combat
This guy has some seriously active combat. Cleave and Great Cleave are your bread and butter; spam both early and often. You also get Stunning Blow, which attacks a mob's fort save. It generally works best on enemy arcane casters and archers, but it can still be effective on melee and divine casters. Get in the habit of using trip as well. We don't take improved trip, but the basic version that everyone gets is pretty effective on this build. It attacks reflex saves, so it won't be great against archers, but it tends to knock down casters and melee pretty well. In epic levels we add in Momentum Swing and Lay Waste, both of which are super fun and synergize perfectly (by design) with the cleaves.

Additionally, the Kensei attacks are pretty fun:
Opportunity Attack is mainly for bosses that you beat down for a while, which means it will likely keep recharging. (10% chance to gain a charge per hit)
A Good Death is kinda meh in epics, but probably rocks in heroics.
Deadly Strike is full of win with greataxes, but not as good with greatswords (Whirlwind) or falchions.

My favorite clickie attack of all on this guy is Ameliorating Strike. It heals you while doing additional dps. What could be better than that?


Combat Buffs
We start off with damage boost (human) and haste boost (kensei), which can be used at the same time, five times each per rest. At level 8 you add Inflame, a third action boost that can be used at the same time as the first two. Then start adding extra action boosts per rest at 12, ending up with 8/rest by 15. (11/rest in epics thanks to Legendary Dreadnought.) The signature kensei boost, Power Surge, is taken as soon as it's available, which unfortunately for this build isn't until level 19. Since you'll generally skip directly from 18 to 20, consider Power Surge an epic thing. In addition to action boosts, you also get Divine Might at 5 and Divine Favor at 15. Note: Once you get power surge, be surge you use it before divine might. The +8 charisma from power surge then makes divine might that much better.


Buffs
At creation you can use your dragonmark feat for expeditious retreat, which is a nice quality of life improvement. At level 3 you get Nightshield, which is a huge advantage compared to this build's paladin equivalent. In addition to Nightshield you get all the standard cleric buffs (protection from evil, resist energy, etc...) capped off by the excellent Deathward and Freedom of Movement at level 15.


Traps
This build has no trapping skills at all. Most traps in DDO have safe spots and/or timing, meaning it is possible to navigate through most of them without taking any damage at all. You'll get better at this as you get more experience, but in the meantime try to find groups with trappers when you want to run trap-heavy quests.


Weapons
The main weapons to look for are Ember Greataxe (ML1), Carnifex (ML4), Sword of the Thirty (ML6) and Whirlwind (ML10). You won't find a better DPS weapon than Carnifex, but Sword of the Thirty and Whirlwind are preferable for this build because they have red slots where you can slot devotion. On my kensei warpriest I use crafted for levels 1 to 3, carnifex for 4 to 7, then at 8 switch to Sword of the Thirty with an ML8 devotion augment. At 10 I switch to Whirlwind with an ML8 devotion augment, then upgrade the augment as I level. I stick with Whirlwind all the way until epics, when I switch over to Epic Antique Greataxe. For undead, constructs, ooze and evil outsider weapons, I typically craft up specialty mauls.


Weaknesses
Your saves aren't great, and reflex saves are your weakest, which is a bit of a bummer but not nearly as bad as it used to be. As a heavy armor wearer your high PRR and MRR help mitigate trap and spell damage, so the low saves in general aren't overly problematic. On the plus side, your cleric buffs grant you immunity to magic missile, command, hold, and level drain. The latter two aren't available until level 15, but still.

EllisDee37
09-27-2013, 03:54 PM
See this thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/480757-Cannith-Crafted-Melee-Gearset) for information on first life and/or leveling gear. I use the gearsets listed in the OP of that thread, including keeping my Cloak of Invisibility equipped until 30. Complete details of my 1-29 gear can be found here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/478031-Cannith-Crafted-melee-gearset?p=5868913&viewfull=1#post5868913), but the <ML10 items in that list can no longer be crafted.


Here's what my Kensei Warpriest on live wears at 30:

Head: ML34 Sheltering 38 Helmet of Accuracy 23 w/Ins. Fortification 79 (Water Breathing)
Eyes: ML34 Wisdom 15 Goggles of True Seeing w/Ins. Seeker 7 (Blindness Immunity)
Neck: ML34 Constitution 15 Necklace of Devotion 159 w/Ins. MRR 18 (Deathblock)
Back: ML34 Charisma 15 Cloak of Dodge Bonus 15 w/Ins. Charisma 7 (Feather Falling)
Wrist: Greensteel Smoke
Hand: ML34 Melee Alacrity 15 Gloves of Deadly 12 w/Ins. Accuracy 11 (Dexterity +6)
Waist: ML34 Doublestrike 17 Belt of Stunning 17 w/Ins. Constitution 7 (Good Luck +2)
Feet: ML34 Seeker 15 Boots of Strength 15 w/Ins. Combat Mastery 6 (Striding 30%)
Ring: Epic Ring of the Stalker (Heavy Fort, Vitality)
Ring: ML34 Wizardry 310 Ring of False Life 57 w/Ins. PRR 18 (Fear Immunity)
Trinket: ML34 Resistance 12 Trinket of Armor Piercing 23 w/Ins. Devotion 79
Body: ML34 Combat Mastery 12 Planeforged Half Plate of Healing Amp 61 w/Parrying 7 (Armored Agility +2)

Weapons

Epic Riftmaker
Epic Antique Greataxe (Evil Bypass) for ETR, and DR breaking at cap

Swaps and Clickies

Planar Gird (x1)
Pale Lavender Ioun Stone
Silver Flame Talisman (if PLIS runs out)
Cloak of Invisibility (Invis clickie, plus swap it in when you don't want Feather Fall)
Cannith Boots of Propulsion
Cursed Blade of Jack Jibbers
Helm of Haggle +22 w/Insightful Haggle +11

Dodge

8 MDB (Planeforged Half Plate)
2 Armored Agility (augment)
3 Stalwart Defensive Mastery (SD enhancements)
---
13 MDB

With a 15% dodge item (cloak) I end up at 13 Dodge due to the MDB cap.


I prefer using cannith crafted for almost all my gear solely because I have a lot of characters, and cannith crafted is quick and easy to make. That way I can quickly gear him up and than start working on someone else. If this were my only character, I would consider this gearset a "starter" endgame set he'd equip to go out and farm up the real endgame gearset. For ideas on what real endgame fighter gear might look like, this thread looks promising: Fighter Gear? (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/481218-Fighter-Gear)

EllisDee37
09-27-2013, 03:55 PM
reserved

RedHost
09-27-2013, 05:29 PM
I have been kicking around ideas for a similar build to finish out my Fighter past lives. Given the way that Freedom of Movement keeps getting it's usefulness eroded away, and the Dev statement on Lamannia that they were unhappy with it providing total immunity to holds, is there some other major reason for those couple of Cleric levels that I am not seeing? My thinking was that /2paladin for Divine Grace would be very nice, but I haven't gotten far enough to actually testing things out in game yet.

EllisDee37
09-27-2013, 06:04 PM
Getting deathward without having to manage a closetfull of flesh guard clickies is a significant quality of life improvement. That's the one reason I don't like playing my ranger as much as my other alts, all of whom are either immune to negative levels or can self-cast dw for long durations.

This build gets 14 minute deathward from 15-19, then 16 minute deathwards for epic levels. This is just lonog enough to be comfortable for me.

Regarding FOM, I'm living in denial. I prefer to think of that dev post (which I saw at the time) as being made in jest.

Oh, you also get cure critical wounds, and the two extra cleric levels help give the cure spells a little more kick.

But, if you have and are not annoyed by using dw clickies, yeah, 2 paladin is solid. Another option is to go helf with pally dilletante for the saves.

RedHost
09-27-2013, 06:27 PM
Makes sense, thanks for the response! Looks like a nice setup, especially for players without a lot of resources to provide more self sufficiency while not making great sacrifices in damage.

Gorget
10-01-2013, 02:57 AM
Since this build is designed for free-to-play-players I understand your choice, but having access to the favoured soul, would it be better using that instead of cleric since it is casting charisma based? You start with 14 charisma but only 8-10 wisdom which makes casting tier 1 spells possible only if you have +1/+3 Wisdom on gear.

Sry if I'm wrong and the cleric has something that the FvS doesn't. I am still fairly new to this game.

CoasterHops
10-01-2013, 04:03 AM
If the last cleric lvl isnt important why not make it Wizard and pick up Quicken? Plus a couple of other not important things.

EllisDee37
10-01-2013, 03:36 PM
Since this build is designed for free-to-play-players I understand your choice, but having access to the favoured soul, would it be better using that instead of cleric since it is casting charisma based? You start with 14 charisma but only 8-10 wisdom which makes casting tier 1 spells possible only if you have +1/+3 Wisdom on gear.Favored Soul is definitely an option, especially since the cleric version doesn't even bother to take radiant servant burst. (Or even spend a single point in the RS tree.)

I chose cleric over FVS because you need 8 FVS levels just to get a single level 4 spell. The cleric version gets three level 4s at 15: cure critical, freedom of movement, and deathward. I wanted all three. There isn't really a fourth level 4 I actually want, though, so the last one take at level 20 is kind of a throw-away. (Divine Power for +2 BAB? meh.)



If the last cleric lvl isnt important why not make it Wizard and pick up Quicken? Plus a couple of other not important things.I see no harm in that.

I don't think quicken is particularly useful because I don't take burst and during epics the primary healing comes from cocoon, which appears to not be interruptable.

But yeah, if you want a wizard level for whatever reason, go nuts. I stuck with cleric for the extra spell points, +2:00 to the duration of fom, dw and nightshield, +12 seconds to divine favor, and the slight buff to the cure spells.

Vellrad
10-01-2013, 03:54 PM
I've had similiar idea of 12ftr/7cle/1monk, but as its aimed to new players, lack of monk is understandable ;)

I'd pick OC at level 21 instead of 24.
At level 26 I'd go with PTWF (doublestrike bonus works with 2 handers).
At level 28 maybe PTHF or +20 positive spellpower.

But anyway, I would also invest in radiant tree to get scroll mastery and use for turns- divine healing, which is great with enough ranks in heal (how else to spend those skillpoints anyway?) and healing amp (they're giving away 30% gloves in eveningstar almost for free ;)).

Vellrad
10-01-2013, 03:57 PM
But yeah, if you want a wizard level for whatever reason, go nuts. I stuck with cleric for the extra spell points,

Actually, 1 level of wizard might give a little more spellpoints than last level of cleric- that's 50 base versus however 8th cleric level gives, minus wisdomX1, plus intx10. With int item to swap before shrines, and after buffs, that is. Also, no UMD for wizard wands is sweet thing too.
And grease, don't forget about grease ;]

EllisDee37
10-01-2013, 04:20 PM
Actually, 1 level of wizard might give a little more spellpoints than last level of cleric- that's 50 base versus however 8th cleric level gives, minus wisdomX1, plus intx10. With int item to swap before shrines, and after buffs, that is.Good point! Note that the base spell points for cleric 8 is only 40.

EllisDee37
10-01-2013, 04:25 PM
I'd pick OC at level 21 instead of 24.It is. Note the explanation in the narrative above the build.


At level 26 I'd go with PTWF (doublestrike bonus works with 2 handers).This feels exploity to me, in a "that's going to get fixed" kind of way. I tend to steer clear of such things in builds.


But anyway, I would also invest in radiant tree to get scroll mastery and use for turns- divine healing, which is great with enough ranks in heal (how else to spend those skillpoints anyway?) and healing amp (they're giving away 30% gloves in eveningstar almost for free ;)).Healing amp is of high priority regardless of taking divine healing.

The self-healing is sufficient without spending anything in the RS tree, and thanks to echoes, scrolls are almost never needed. Divine healing would be more healing, for sure, but I opted to go for the healing effect of smite foe with those points instead. On a test at level 15 it was giving back ~50 hp every 15 seconds, and that's without any amp gear. At 20 I equip PDK gloves, and soon after a pair of convalescent of superior parrying bracers, so I'm thinking the smite foe healing (which is an aoe heal effect) will be pretty effective and probably more fun.

I decided to avoid turn-based effects when it became clear that I'd have to sacrifice dps to get turns to regenerate. Also, the skill points are already be spent on heal for the positive spell power.

Vellrad
10-01-2013, 04:37 PM
It is. Note the explanation in the narrative above the build.

Everyone can have +2 tome in middle of heroic levels, even with worst luck, as a 1750 favor reward, so qualifying for OC is not a problem.


This feels exploity to me, in a "that's going to get fixed" kind of way. I tend to steer clear of such things in builds.

I don't think its exploit, its just the fact that ALL lvl26+ feats are somewhat weird.
Anyway, if it ever get changed, there's a free feat swap for it.



Healing amp is of high priority regardless of taking divine healing.

The self-healing is sufficient without spending anything in the RS tree, and thanks to echoes, scrolls are almost never needed. Divine healing would be more healing, for sure, but I opted to go for the healing effect of smite foe with those points instead. On a test at level 15 it was giving back ~50 hp every 15 seconds, and that's without any amp gear. At 20 I equip PDK gloves, and soon after a pair of convalescent of superior parrying bracers, so I'm thinking the smite foe healing (which is an aoe heal effect) will be pretty effective and probably more fun.

I decided to avoid turn-based effects when it became clear that I'd have to sacrifice dps to get turns to regenerate. Also, the skill points are already be spent on heal for the positive spell power.

I never said instead, I mean next to.
Qualifying for divine healing is 5 AP. Taking it 2-6AP. I can understand that it is costly, but I somehow don't like stalwart tree ;p

EllisDee37
10-01-2013, 04:55 PM
Everyone can have +2 tome in middle of heroic levels, even with worst luck, as a 1750 favor reward, so qualifying for OC is not a problem.A new player is quite likely to not own enough content to even get 1750 favor by the time they reach level cap.


I don't think its exploit, its just the fact that ALL lvl26+ feats are somewhat weird.
Anyway, if it ever get changed, there's a free feat swap for it.I don't mean like an actual exploit; I mean that it feels wrong. I also prefer to not rely on Fred, who is often twitchy. (Waht do you expect from a dirty mind flayer? hehheh.)


I never said instead, I mean next to.
Qualifying for divine healing is 5 AP. Taking it 2-6AP. I can understand that it is costly, but I somehow don't like stalwart tree ;pStalwart gives +25 PRR and +3 to all saves. I'd much rather have that than an extra (unnecessary) healing option that isn't fungible.

Besides which, I'd take the points out of warpriest anyway, forgoing the tier 4 "smite foe also heals" ability. As a choice between those two healing options I like smite foe better, particularly for raid situations.

Vellrad
10-01-2013, 05:08 PM
Stalwart gives +25 PRR and +3 to all saves. I'd much rather have that than an extra (unnecessary) healing option that isn't fungible.



Isn't it requring movement slowing rage blocking stance? That stance is the sole reason I never look at stalwart tree at all ;p

EllisDee37
10-01-2013, 05:20 PM
Isn't it requring movement slowing rage blocking stance? That stance is the sole reason I never look at stalwart tree at all ;pI did some time trials on the stance movement penalty and was unable to measure a meaningful difference. In my time trial, running for 30 seconds in stance took around 29.5 seconds without stance. I'll live with giving up 1 second per minute in run speed. (I was satisfied by my limited testing in that a) it "felt" the same as normal speed and b) if it turns out to be a bigger penalty than that I don't want to know. Once it "feels" slow I'll reevaluate.)

You can be out of stance, raged, go into stance and get both effects at once.

I want to clarify something that in re-reading I'm not explaining well: The divine healing route is solid, and not a bad choice by any means. For me, with stance as a given, it came down to a choice between either divine healing or smite foe healing. I decided to go with smite foe because it's based on character (not cleric) level and it's an aoe effect, so it should be much more useful in epic raid situations, and somewhat less effective as divine healing everywhere else.

Either choice is solid and defensible. I wouldn't drop stance, though. heh.

Vellrad
10-01-2013, 05:34 PM
I did some time trials on the stance movement penalty and was unable to measure a meaningful difference. In my time trial, running for 30 seconds in stance took around 29.5 seconds without stance. I'll live with giving up 1 second per minute in run speed. (I was satisfied by my limited testing in that a) it "felt" the same as normal speed and b) if it turns out to be a bigger penalty than that I don't want to know. Once it "feels" slow I'll reevaluate.)

You can be out of stance, raged, go into stance and get both effects at once.

I want to clarify something that in re-reading I'm not explaining well: The divine healing route is solid, and not a bad choice by any means. For me, with stance as a given, it came down to a choice between either divine healing or smite foe healing. I decided to go with smite foe because it's based on character (not cleric) level and it's an aoe effect, so it should be much more useful in epic raid situations, and somewhat less effective as divine healing everywhere else.

Either choice is solid and defensible. I wouldn't drop stance, though. heh.

1. Wow I didn't know I can rage, and enter stance with both benefits. Its nice to know, but I'd rate it even more cheese as PTFW with 2 handers ;p
2. I'm also not saying there is one true way, its nice to have options to discuss ;)
3. There's so many builds I'd like to play, but don't have time, and I'm afraid I won't be able to play something like this until its nerfed to oblivion :D

EllisDee37
10-01-2013, 05:45 PM
1. Wow I didn't know I can rage, and enter stance with both benefits. Its nice to know, but I'd rate it even more cheese as PTFW with 2 handers ;pI'd rate is less cheesy, but still cheesy. As such, I keep stance on permanently and just don't get rage.


2. I'm also not saying there is one true way, its nice to have options to discuss ;)Yep, agreed. After re-reading my posts they sounded like "no you're wrong" when that wasn't the intent. I was just trying to explain why I made the choice the way I did.

EllisDee37
10-15-2013, 06:23 AM
At 18 on my second life I ended up dumping the SD tree altogether to get Greater Heroism and Improved Recovery III from the human tree, then spent the rest on a second +1 strength from Warpriest, the human THF line and +saves from inflame. I'm quite enjoying the heal effect from smite foe while solo, and positively loving it in groups. The only downside is if smite doesn't hit an enemy (like it dies before your swing lands) you get no heal effect.

Divine Healing is certainly an option to consider if you decide to drop the SD tree. It's a bummer losing the 25 PRR and +3 saves, though, so I may switch back to that version once I get back to epics. Right now I just love getting my 36-minute GH clickie, 7 times per rest. Buff the whole party for free!

Grailhawk
10-15-2013, 10:05 AM
This probably kills the new player aspect of this but i would flavor of the month this and do 11/8/1 monk ditch dragon mark and extend for Master of from and run in earth stance.

Could take some of the points you have in SD to get +15 prr from Shinto for a total of 30 from earth stance.

EllisDee37
10-15-2013, 03:11 PM
This probably kills the new player aspect of this but i would flavor of the month this and do 11/8/1 monk ditch dragon mark and extend for Master of from and run in earth stance.That's a radical departure from this build. Switching to a juggernaut or a shirardi sorc would also be better.

Grailhawk
10-15-2013, 05:51 PM
That's a radical departure from this build. Switching to a juggernaut or a shirardi sorc would also be better.

The only thing radical about it would be the change from Heavy Armor to Robes and calling that a radical change is a stretch. In every other way you would play it the same.

An LR +1 can get you to this it would take much more to get to a Juggernaut or a Shiradi Sorc.

Earthstance is grater then Fighter 12 but whatever you're clearly not open to discussion.

EllisDee37
10-15-2013, 06:02 PM
An LR +1 can get you to this it would take much more to get to a Juggernaut or a Shiradi Sorc.I thought you meant 11 fighter/8 monk/1 cleric, which is why I considered it a radical change and off topic for this thread. Apologies for the confusion.

I wouldn't drop the fighter level because that loses power surge. The 8th cleric level, OTOH, adds very little compared to 1 monk. 12/7/1 would work well; that last level can be anything you like, really. The key cleric number is 7 levels.

Hmmm, how exactly does that 1 monk work? It autogrants the first stance feat and then I need to spend 2 more to get the stance all the way to master? Plus monk gives a bonus feat, meaning a net effect of dropping 1 feat to fit it in? If so, the obvious choice there is the "player's choice" epic feat. The THF line can be pushed into epic levels to take master of forms earlier.

If I spend the AP to get my kensei weapon centered, can I use stunning fist with the weapon equipped?

EDIT:
Could take some of the points you have in SD to get +15 prr from Shinto for a total of 30 from earth stance.That requires 2 monk levels.

Even with no AP spent in any monk tree, just grandmaster of forms earth stance alone would be pretty sweet: +1 crit multiplier on natural 19-20. It does require 3 feats, though, meaning 2 feats after using the monk bonus feat like you describe. That's a tougher choice; I'd probably lean toward dropping the THF line. Extend is too valuable for quality of life (and mana consumption) with only 7 cleric levels, and DDoor is really nice to have.

Grailhawk
10-15-2013, 06:45 PM
EDIT:That requires 2 monk levels.

Even with no AP spent in any monk tree, just grandmaster of forms earth stance alone would be pretty sweet: +1 crit multiplier on natural 19-20. It does require 3 feats, though, meaning 2 feats after using the monk bonus feat like you describe. That's a tougher choice; I'd probably lean toward dropping the THF line. Extend is too valuable for quality of life (and mana consumption) with only 7 cleric levels, and DDoor is really nice to have.

That's right my bad it does take 2 for the extra +15.

You don't have to take Grandmaster of Form you can stop at Master of Forms (difference of +3 PRR, +1 Con, 5% AC, 15% Threat) the important component the +1 crit multiplier is there.

maddmatt70
10-16-2013, 01:39 PM
why 8 cleric? 4 cleric yeah I will buy. A newer player can run tangleroot for dward clickies. If you go with 14 fighter 4 cleric 2 paladin you get really high saves so probably do not need fom as a newer player anyway.

maddmatt70
10-16-2013, 01:41 PM
This probably kills the new player aspect of this but i would flavor of the month this and do 11/8/1 monk ditch dragon mark and extend for Master of from and run in earth stance.

Could take some of the points you have in SD to get +15 prr from Shinto for a total of 30 from earth stance.

You have not tried ameliorating strike have you.? I would actually go with twf instead of thf because ameliorating strike double procs. My twf 12 barbarian 4 fvs 4 rogue heals everyone for 400 hit points every 15 seconds it rocks.

EllisDee37
10-16-2013, 03:31 PM
why 8 cleric? 4 cleric yeah I will buy. A newer player can run tangleroot for dward clickies. If you go with 14 fighter 4 cleric 2 paladin you get really high saves so probably do not need fom as a newer player anyway.I don't see any reason that wouldn't work out nicely, but losing the level 4 spells and replacing potentially endless cures with 4/rest LoH doesn't appeal to me personally. 7 minute clickies annoy me, while 16:00 self-cast buffs makes me feel all warm and squishy inside.

For a veteran version of the build I think I'd go helf instead of human for pally saves with dilletante, 12 fighter/7 cleric/1 monk for grandmaster of forms, drop blinding speed and the "player's choice" epic feat to make room for the form feats, (wear a speed item), and switch the THF line to TWF for double the smite foe procs. Drop the starting strength down from 18 to 16 to pump up dex and you'll be within easy tome range of qualifying for the TWF line.

That would almost certainly be a stronger and more advanced build. I'm happy with the basic version outlined in the OP, but then again I don't run EE.


You have not tried ameliorating strike have you.? I would actually go with twf instead of thf because ameliorating strike double procs. My twf 12 barbarian 4 fvs 4 rogue heals everyone for 400 hit points every 15 seconds it rocks.Yeah, ameliorating strike is super fun. I just finally got it last week and am loving it. My only complaint is that I wish it had similar boosts to monk healing ki: spend 2 AP to have it also remove curses, 2 AP to also remove poison, etc...

Whispurr
10-20-2013, 09:31 AM
This build gets 14 minute deathward from 15-19, then 16 minute deathwards for epic levels. This is just lonog enough to be comfortable for me.


Where are you getting your numbers from? You should be getting 1 min per caster level, so with 8 cleric levels at lv20+, you should only get 8 mins, not 16 mins. You can bump that up with servant, but you're only using warpriest from the cleric trees.

Vellrad
10-20-2013, 09:36 AM
Where are you getting your numbers from? You should be getting 1 min per caster level, so with 8 cleric levels at lv20+, you should only get 8 mins, not 16 mins. You can bump that up with servant, but you're only using warpriest from the cleric trees.

Ever heard about extend?
Its in the build.

Panzermeyer
10-22-2013, 10:58 AM
While not Free to Play or a New Player I kinda like this build.

Though I am interested in giving this a try as a Half-Orc. I have not played a half-orc yet and have been interested in playing one. I like the healing options with this build.

Half-orc racial tree offers some nice synergy in THF with brutality and Great Weapon Appittude. Though brings the cost up to 19 AP in the racial tree.

Means stalwart defender stance is out, so I would say the tree is out.

Leaves me with 7 AP to throw around, just enough for a teir one of divine healing, but I doubt that is worth it at high levels.

I have not built it yet, but through the planner it would seem the saves on this build though are larger trash. What kind of saves are you getting. I do know as far as epic elite if they aren't super high, well then it might not even been worth it to try and invest in them.

The base seems so low though I am wondering if I should both much with the saves.

EllisDee37
10-22-2013, 04:58 PM
While not Free to Play or a New Player I kinda like this build.I'm not sure I understand.



I have not built it yet, but through the planner it would seem the saves on this build though are larger trash.Saves are terrible. I wouldn't enjoy running this build on EE. (Which I don't run.)

unbongwah
10-22-2013, 05:25 PM
Cleric 8 doesn't seem to get you much; I would add a splash of barb (+10% run speed, +3 Power Atk, 4 Rages), rog or bard (UMD), or wiz (+1 feat).

EllisDee37
10-22-2013, 05:28 PM
Cleric 8 doesn't seem to get you much; I would add a splash of barb (+10% run speed, +3 Power Atk, 4 Rages), rog or bard (UMD), or wiz (+1 feat).Yep, those all work fine. I'd be nervous about barb, though; doesn't rage prevent spellcasting? This build casts a lot of spell all the time. (Cures + Divine Favor alone get cast frequently.)

Kyodaemon
10-22-2013, 07:30 PM
Yep, those all work fine. I'd be nervous about barb, though; doesn't rage prevent spellcasting? This build casts a lot of spell all the time. (Cures + Divine Favor alone get cast frequently.)


With 1 level of Barb you get a higher hit dice, run speed and access to the Sprint Boost (Not sure how the AP work for this however..)

1 rage per shrine that will last about 45 seconds if i remember right?

The rage is a tiny part of the splash :)

Panzermeyer
10-23-2013, 09:31 AM
I'm not sure I understand.

I only meant that I am not a brand new player. But they is a great first life build.
I think it would be an excellent build to try out a Half-Orc finally.


Saves are terrible. I wouldn't enjoy running this build on EE. (Which I don't run.)

Yea I am becoming less and less of a fan of EE. Too much work, and too many resources for too little gain. I generally only run with Guildies, IE people who I know have some skills and communicate and use tactics together. =)

Panzermeyer
10-23-2013, 09:32 AM
With 1 level of Barb you get a higher hit dice, run speed and access to the Sprint Boost (Not sure how the AP work for this however..)

You only get a higher hit die for the single level that you have barbarian. So that would only equate to about 4-5 more hit points. Rather insignificant at cap.

unbongwah
10-23-2013, 09:38 AM
I'd be nervous about barb, though; doesn't rage prevent spellcasting?
Yes, so it would be an issue if you plan to heal w/CCW or renew short-term buffs like Divine Favor. OTOH, I'm pretty sure Rage would be shorter than your longer-term buffs, so if you drag a hireling around as much as I do, it becomes much less of an issue. :)

1 rage per shrine that will last about 45 seconds if i remember right?
Extra Rage bumps that up to 4 Rages per rest; Extend Rage will increase duration by 75%. Depending on CON, I would guesstimate you could get 8-12 mins. worth of Rage outta a barb splash if you have the APs for it.

EllisDee37
10-23-2013, 03:45 PM
OTOH, I'm pretty sure Rage would be shorter than your longer-term buffs, so if you drag a hireling around as much as I do, it becomes much less of an issue. :)I don't use hirelings except to pull levers in the few quests where that's needed. I do carry around 3 different DV hires but don't actually use them unless I need to get mana back while soloing.

If bringing a hire for actual questing, may as well roll a pure 20 kensei. The purpose of the 8 cleric levels (or 7, which works fine too) is to not need a hire.


I only meant that I am not a brand new player. But they is a great first life build.
I think it would be an excellent build to try out a Half-Orc finally.Ah, gotcha. in retrospect, what you wrote clearly expresses that. My reading skills are iffy lately. heh.

Yeah it's a fun easy build for heroic leveling, that's for sure. I see no issue rolling up a half-orc version. As I posted later on in the thread, I also abandoned the stalwart defender tree entirely in favor of the tier 4 warpriest ability that adds aoe heals to smite foe.

I will say, though, that if it's possible to get a pale lavendar it helps out situationally quite a bit. Short of that, maybe 2 or 3 of those disposable scarabs with 50 absorption charges would suffice for a life. On the current life of this build I used the PLIS for the following:

- Ghola Fan end fight
- Ice flenser chest in threnal
- The 2nd quest in the LoD chain, with all the reavers and drow casters

I think that's it. Maybe a couple more, but those are the only times I remember equipping it offhand.

Choopak
11-04-2013, 02:59 PM
How would this build works as a WF or H-orc? both have THF enhancements boosts, and bonus to useful stats like CON (wf) or STR (h-orc)
Would you loose to much? in efficiency, in action boost?

Vellrad
11-04-2013, 03:23 PM
How would this build works as a WF or H-orc? both have THF enhancements boosts, and bonus to useful stats like CON (wf) or STR (h-orc)
Would you loose to much? in efficiency, in action boost?

Probably good.

Human is an extra feat, so you would have to resign from one of feats.

unbongwah
11-04-2013, 03:38 PM
How would this build works as a WF or H-orc? both have THF enhancements boosts, and bonus to useful stats like CON (wf) or STR (h-orc)
Would you loose to much? in efficiency, in action boost?
The main drawback would be losing heal amp; obviously, it's a bigger drawback for WF than HO. This build relies on Ameliorating Strike and Cure spells for most of its self-heals, so heal amp is pretty important for getting the most bang outta every heal. You also lose the Passage DMs and Dmg Boost, though you gain other racial enhs in their place.

Ungood
11-04-2013, 04:18 PM
I did a 12/8 Fighter/Cleric for my Fighter life, I admit, the class splits are amazing when it comes to surviving, but really, you're better off going 1 fighter, 9 cleric, then 11 fighter, to get the healing power in at the early levels, and then worry about the DPS at the later levels when it starts to really matter.

Also, I did my build before the Enhancement pass, when feats were still tied to PRE's, so when it came to feats, I took the feats to allow for both Kensei and SD, because a 12/8 Fighter/Cleric also made a great self healing tank.

I am not sure how that sets now with the new pass, so, I'll not comment on that.

Note: You should fit quicken in there as you will be casting while in combat, it's just a very handy feat to have.

Choopak
11-06-2013, 03:25 PM
... Yeah it's a fun easy build for heroic leveling, that's for sure. I see no issue rolling up a half-orc version. As I posted later on in the thread, I also abandoned the stalwart defender tree entirely in favor of the tier 4 warpriest ability that adds aoe heals to smite foe...

You said you scrap the SD tree, but your OP, doesn't show that... could you elaborate please (rather have more self healing, cause it the purpose of the build)
Also, you mention many times that the 8th level of cleric is pretty much useless, any advice (from your experience) to replace it with? Was thinking rogue at low level... But open to suggestions (a la pro vs con)
1 level of rogue opens up UMD, 1d6 SA, but mostly: open lock! If i remember, 1 rank in OL was all you need to open pretty much all the doors/ chests! which are plentiful at lower level.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom, and build!

One more thing, in the OP you suggest starting with 12 INT, but only 8 WIS... i did! And found out could not cast, lol! Are skills that important? I mean 12 WIS, would be much better than 12 INT...

p.s: just TRed 3 days ago (3rd life), 4th level already, enjoying the build, very simple and like you said: pally like style...

Jasparion
11-06-2013, 04:16 PM
One more thing, in the OP you suggest starting with 12 INT, but only 8 WIS... i did! And found out could not cast, lol! Are skills that important? I mean 12 WIS, would be much better than 12 INT...

A good point. You could chug Wisdom pots, or hope to get a ship invite with a +1/+2 shrine and look for a +1/+2 Wisdom item, but neither of these are brand new player friendly. For a new player I would say start with 10 Wisdom. Then you only need a +1 item early on, and can start saving for a +1 tome and move up to +2 items and beyond.

Im planning on a variant of this for my next life. We have no Healer in my group of 6 so I will sort of take on that role, but Im thinking 10 Fighter / 8 Cleric / 2 Rogue. Extra skills and Evasion will go nicely. I wont be spending much time at 20, so I dont need 12 levels of Fighter (because I wouldnt be getting my final Fighter level probably until level 20).

I created a test case with an Iconic to level to 15 and am wondering about the best use of my AP. Kensai I can see getting to the top tier, but do I want to get to tier 4 in Warpriest first? Rogue looks pretty good with Acrobat, and staves (which I am planning on going - possibly using my GS Falchion against mobs which have DR against Bludgeoning). Early on do I go for Divine Might but then ignore Warpriest until much later in the game?

2 levels of Rogue gets me some nice things, but am I maybe better off going for 4 or 5? That tier in Acrobat is still giving some very nice things, but means I need to cut back on my Cleric levels (its a Fighter life so I need the most levels here).

unbongwah
11-06-2013, 04:40 PM
One more thing, in the OP you suggest starting with 12 INT, but only 8 WIS... i did! And found out could not cast, lol! Are skills that important? I mean 12 WIS, would be much better than 12 INT...
Look at it this way: base WIS 8 + 6 item = 14, which is enough to cast all your spells; OTOH, the only way to retroactively give yourself more skill pts is to LR with higher INT. So while using Owl's WIS wands or the like until you have a +WIS item is annoying, it's merely a temporary inconvenience.

Choopak
11-06-2013, 05:38 PM
A good point. You could chug Wisdom pots, or hope to get a ship invite with a +1/+2 shrine and look for a +1/+2 Wisdom item, but neither of these are brand new player friendly. For a new player I would say start with 10 Wisdom. Then you only need a +1 item early on, and can start saving for a +1 tome and move up to +2 items and beyond.

Well i ain't exactly a new palyer, i'm a come back player ;) So my toon have a full set of +2 tomes (only available at level 7), minor inconvinient for me (was saying for a new player)

Im planning on a variant of this for my next life. We have no Healer in my group of 6 so I will sort of take on that role, but Im thinking 10 Fighter / 8 Cleric / 2 Rogue. Extra skills and Evasion will go nicely. I wont be spending much time at 20, so I dont need 12 levels of Fighter (because I wouldnt be getting my final Fighter level probably until level 20).

I'm not to familiar with new enchancements, but as i remember, kensasi 12 (figter 12) was worth getting,... it's the 8th level of cleric i'm wondering what to replace with (might keep it)

I created a test case with an Iconic to level to 15 and am wondering about the best use of my AP. Kensai I can see getting to the top tier, but do I want to get to tier 4 in Warpriest first? Rogue looks pretty good with Acrobat, and staves (which I am planning on going - possibly using my GS Falchion against mobs which have DR against Bludgeoning). Early on do I go for Divine Might but then ignore Warpriest until much later in the game?

2 levels of Rogue gets me some nice things, but am I maybe better off going for 4 or 5? That tier in Acrobat is still giving some very nice things, but means I need to cut back on my Cleric levels (its a Fighter life so I need the most levels here).

Ya 2 levels rogue or monk are nice for evasion and other goodies... i don't wanna strech thin, just making the most of the build: so 1 level only... but wich class?

BTW i took the VIP package so i have acces to all races/ classes...

EllisDee37
11-06-2013, 05:39 PM
Im planning on a variant of this for my next life. We have no Healer in my group of 6 so I will sort of take on that role
[...]
Kensai I can see getting to the top tier, but do I want to get to tier 4 in Warpriest first?Tier 4 Warpriest will help you out a ton with keeping your party healed, so maybe kick it up to a higher priority.

Yep, your ideas for level splits sound good. And you're right about not needing 12 fighter if you're not staying in epic levels; I don't get my 12th fighter level until 19.

The only thing to keep in mind is this build as written (so no rogue levels) has terrible reflex saves. If you add some rogue levels, maybe kick strength down to 16 and bump dex up to 14?

Choopak
11-06-2013, 05:42 PM
Look at it this way: base WIS 8 + 6 item = 14, which is enough to cast all your spells; OTOH, the only way to retroactively give yourself more skill pts is to LR with higher INT. So while using Owl's WIS wands or the like until you have a +WIS item is annoying, it's merely a temporary inconvenience.

Wich bring the quetion again: are skills that immportant? beside concentration, heal...

Choopak
11-06-2013, 05:47 PM
Tier 4 Warpriest will help you out a ton with keeping your party healed, so maybe kick it up to a higher priority.

Yep, your ideas for level splits sound good. And you're right about not needing 12 fighter if you're not staying in epic levels; I don't get my 12th fighter level until 19.

The only thing to keep in mind is this build as written (so no rogue levels) has terrible reflex saves. If you add some rogue levels, maybe kick strength down to 16 and bump dex up to 14?

Do you need 8 level of cleric to get tier 4 warpriest enchancements?

EllisDee37
11-06-2013, 06:11 PM
Do you need 8 level of cleric to get tier 4 warpriest enchancements?Nope, just level 4.

Jasparion
11-06-2013, 10:33 PM
Tier 4 Warpriest will help you out a ton with keeping your party healed, so maybe kick it up to a higher priority.

Yep, your ideas for level splits sound good. And you're right about not needing 12 fighter if you're not staying in epic levels; I don't get my 12th fighter level until 19.

The only thing to keep in mind is this build as written (so no rogue levels) has terrible reflex saves. If you add some rogue levels, maybe kick strength down to 16 and bump dex up to 14?

I was planning on 16 Str, 14 Dex (I have all +4 tomes too). Ive got a level 88 ship, plenty of + Dex items to choose from, and Planar Girds, so my saves should be pretty good. I also have a guy playing pure Rogue in my group so he will take care of traps and the tricky bits on Elite runs. The Evasion really is just the nice little extra for me. I figure with reasonable saves it will help me sometimes in Elite runs, and often in Hard and Normal repeat runs.

I also really like the Tier 1 and Tier 2 Acrobat enhancements for Staves. 15% swing increase, and 25% doublestrike (which is up 90% of the time).

I will keep an eye on our group healing requirements to see how things are going. If I need to get to Tier 4 of Warpriest quickly I will respend my AP.

Thanks.

Choopak
11-07-2013, 02:21 AM
Tier 4 Warpriest will help you out a ton with keeping your party healed, so maybe kick it up to a higher priority.

Yep, your ideas for level splits sound good. And you're right about not needing 12 fighter if you're not staying in epic levels; I don't get my 12th fighter level until 19.

The only thing to keep in mind is this build as written (so no rogue levels) has terrible reflex saves. If you add some rogue levels, maybe kick strength down to 16 and bump dex up to 14?

Thanks for input, i'm getting better at understanding those damn new enchancements... Now i know i want my toon to be 12 figther, 7-8 cleric (still debating for swapping last level cleric), THF, human (for the reasons you gave earlier) and with the same starting stats as yours...
Enhancements wise still the tricky part, quick question: the figther SD tree don't seems to bring to much (little more AC, some saves, etc...) was wandering if the cleric radiant servant tree wouldn't works better? (for even more healing and "unkillability") Or even more warpriest or kensai?

EllisDee37
11-07-2013, 07:10 AM
the figther SD tree don't seems to bring to much (little more AC, some saves, etc...) was wandering if the cleric radiant servant tree wouldn't works better? (for even more healing and "unkillability") Or even more warpriest or kensai?Well, the SD tree gives +3 saves and +25 PRR which is nice, but, well, I kind of came to the same conclusion as you.

So I ditched the SD tree altogether and put those points...actually looking back at the OP I'm not entirely sure where those 13 points went. I'll have to check in game and post the differences.

Choopak
11-07-2013, 03:11 PM
Well, the SD tree gives +3 saves and +25 PRR which is nice, but, well, I kind of came to the same conclusion as you.

So I ditched the SD tree altogether and put those points...actually looking back at the OP I'm not entirely sure where those 13 points went. I'll have to check in game and post the differences.

Thanks again, really appreciate you take the time to help a noobish like me, lol!
From radiant servant:
Core: healing domain, pacifism (it's a toggle, so no worries for pen), and positive energy burst (healing sucks, but cure a lot of conditions)
Tier 1: wand mastery (II or III), altruism (again II or III depending of wand mastery)
Tier 2: divine healing (II), efficient empower healing (III)
Tier 3: unyielding sovereignty (OMG!!!) and +1 CHA
These are the one that seems the best, but you might know better (from gaming experience)

Panzermeyer
11-07-2013, 04:14 PM
\
Tier 3: unyielding sovereignty (OMG!!!)

This is currently bugged, don't take it. It only appears that the death penalty goes away, but it in fact makes the death penalty permanent.

EllisDee37
11-07-2013, 07:19 PM
This is currently bugged, don't take it. It only appears that the death penalty goes away, but it in fact makes the death penalty permanent.The enhancement works correctly, it's the free feat at level 6 (for clerics and pallies) that is bugged in the way you describe.

Choopak
11-07-2013, 08:01 PM
The enhancement works correctly, it's the free feat at level 6 (for clerics and pallies) that is bugged in the way you describe.

KK i only want the "get out of troubles/ heal me up/ cure all" easy button :)
So your taughs?
And you know what you took instead of SD enhancement?

EllisDee37
11-07-2013, 08:22 PM
And you know what you took instead of SD enhancement?1 sec, my leveling plan changed after a Mabar tome made my str odd. Here's what I currently have on live:

Human (24 AP) - 12 more AP compared to OP
Core: Human Versatility: Damage Boost
Core: Human Adaptability: Strength
Core: Human Versatility: Skills Boost
Core: Greater Adaptability: Constitution
Tier 1: Improved Recovery
Tier 1: Orien Dragonmark Focus III
Tier 2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
Tier 2: Fighting Style: Great Weapon Aptitude III
Tier 3: Heroism
Tier 3: Improved Recovery
Tier 4: Improved Recovery
Tier 4: Greater Heroism

Kensei (32 AP) - unchanged
Core: Kensei Focus
Core: Spiritual Bond
Core: Strike With No Thought
Core: Power Surge
Tier 1: Extra Action Boost III
Tier 1: Haste Boost III
Tier 1: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 2: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 2: Tactics III
Tier 3: Strength
Tier 3: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 4: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 4: Strength
Tier 5: Keen Edge

Warpriest (24 AP) - 1 more AP compared to OP
Core: Smite Foe
Tier 1: Divine Might III
Tier 1: Toughness III
Tier 2: Smite Weakness
Tier 2: Wall of Steel III
Tier 2: Inflame III
Tier 3: Inflame: Energy Absorption III
Tier 3: Strength
Tier 4: Ameliorating Strike
Tier 4: Strength


Looks like I dropped the second warpriest core since my Knight's Loyalty commendation set gives DR 5/-, and added tier 4 strength to offset the lost strength from SD. For human I added enough AP to get max amp and GH, and then when all was said and done I was left with 3 extra AP so I tossed those into human fighting style.

The odd strength from the Mabar tome meant that I could move a destiny str over to con, and then I added a second con with greater adaptability.

Here is the actual leveling plan I used this life, which is my second life in this build, the first since the enhancement pass. I was level 18 when Mabar went live, so the above "final" list of enhancements deviates a little bit, like adding greater adapatability. As you can see, I was pretty fed up not having a planar gird so I rushed the human tree to GH by level 10.


Order Enhancement Tier Tree
1.1 Human Versatility: Damage 0 Human
1.2 Dragonmark Focus I 1 Human
1.3 Kensei Focus 0 Kensei
1.4 Haste Boost I 1 Kensei

2.1 Weapon Group Specialization 1 Kensei
2.2 Haste Boost II 1 Kensei
2.3 Haste Boost III 1 Kensei

3.1 Smite Foe 0 Warpriest
3.2 Divine Might I 1 Warpriest
3.3 Divine Might II 1 Warpriest
3.4 Divine Might III 1 Warpriest

4.1 Weapon Group Specialization 2 Kensei
4.2 Spiritual Bond 0 Kensei
4.3 Toughness I 1 Warpriest

5.1 Improved Recovery 1 Human
5.2 Dragonmark Focus II 1 Human
5.3 Dragonmark Focus III 1 Human

6.1 Tactics I 2 Kensei
6.2 Weapon Group Specialization 3 Kensei

7.1 Human Adaptability: Str 0 Human
7.2 Toughness II 1 Warpriest
7.3 Toughness III 1 Warpriest

8.1 Strength 3 Kensei
8.2 Lesser Dragonmark 2 Human

9.1 Human Versatility: Skills 0 Human
9.2 Improved Recovery 3 Human
9.3 Strike with No Thought 0 Kensei

10.1 Heroism 3 Human
10.2 Greater Heroism 4 Human

11.1 Tactics II 2 Kensei
11.2 Tactics III 2 Kensei

12.1 Strength 4 Kensei
12.2 Extra Action Boost I 1 Kensei

13.1 Extra Action Boost II 1 Kensei
13.2 Extra Action Boost III 1 Kensei

14.1 Weapon Group Specialization 4 Kensei
14.2 Keen Edge 5 Kensei
14.3 Inflame I 2 Warpriest

15.1 Improved Recovery 4 Human
15.2 Resilience of Battle 0 Warpriest
15.3 Inflame II 2 Warpriest

16.1 Strength 3 Warpriest
16.2 Inflame III 2 Warpriest
16.3 Wall of Steel I 2 Warpriest

17.1 Smite Weakness 2 Warpriest
17.2 Wall of Steel II 2 Warpriest
17.3 Wall of Steel III 2 Warpriest

18.1 Inflame: Absorption I 3 Warpriest
18.2 Inflame: Absorption II 3 Warpriest
18.3 Ameliorating Strike 4 Warpriest

19.1 Power Surge 0 Kensei
19.2 Fighting Style I 2 Human
19.3 Fighting Style II 2 Human
19.4 Fighting Style III 2 Human

20.1 Inflame: Absorption III 3 Warpriest
20.2 Inflame: Saving Throws I 2 Warpriest
20.3 Strength 4 Warpriest

Choopak
11-07-2013, 09:29 PM
THANKS!!! where's the + rep button??? seriously, i 'm happy now, i'll restart my leveling process (double TR take so longggg)
Can't wait to be 20 and swing my ESoS with this build... intend to go all the way to level 28!
Again, thanks for your time helping me (and most likely others)

Waterworks beware!!!

Panzermeyer
11-08-2013, 09:26 AM
The enhancement works correctly, it's the free feat at level 6 (for clerics and pallies) that is bugged in the way you describe.

Ah ok. This is great to know.

Mithrenes
11-09-2013, 12:49 PM
I didn't see this pointed out, but note that doing this build in any race other than Human (I'm Half-Orc for example), the -1 Feat problem actually solves itself (you don't qualify for the Dragonmark of Passage). The bigger problem I experience is having less skill points.

Choopak
11-09-2013, 06:57 PM
I didn't see this pointed out, but note that doing this build in any race other than Human (I'm Half-Orc for example), the -1 Feat problem actually solves itself (you don't qualify for the Dragonmark of Passage). The bigger problem I experience is having less skill points.

I use only heal, concentration and jump... so the skill problem is not a big issue...

I realize today, running catacomb, that i have turn undead... Any "better" use for our turn undead than this? You use to be able to use turn undead to power smites, healing and even get some mana back... any of this in U19?

Choopak
11-09-2013, 06:59 PM
I didn't see this pointed out, but note that doing this build in any race other than Human (I'm Half-Orc for example), the -1 Feat problem actually solves itself (you don't qualify for the Dragonmark of Passage). The bigger problem I experience is having less skill points.

Ya my friend is running this build on an H-orc and it works fine:
More STR, STR enhancements, THF bonus, and more damage when you get hit... overall a solid choice!
Human does have more healing amp, and the dragonmarks...

EllisDee37
11-09-2013, 08:59 PM
I realize today, running catacomb, that i have turn undead... Any "better" use for our turn undead than this? You use to be able to use turn undead to power smites, healing and even get some mana back... any of this in U19?Pretty much zero use for the turns.

If you decide to invest in the radiant servant tree you can get burst, which is powered by turns. That was the original idea when I first rolled this up, but the enhancement pass makes it very expensive to make your turns regenerate. Without regenerating turns I made the decision to deprecate turns completely, thus nothing uses them and they don't recharge over time.

Choopak
11-11-2013, 03:49 AM
Pretty much zero use for the turns.

If you decide to invest in the radiant servant tree you can get burst, which is powered by turns. That was the original idea when I first rolled this up, but the enhancement pass makes it very expensive to make your turns regenerate. Without regenerating turns I made the decision to deprecate turns completely, thus nothing uses them and they don't recharge over time.

Ya... still looking into this, so far i follow your last spec, but changed 1 thing: i took action surge STR (twice, for a +2 STR whenever i use a boost) instead of rank 2-3 of dragonmark focus (5 use of dragon mark is enough)
Also if you go all the way to Tier 4 in human... grab teleport! it's an awesome spell, super useful, and it's the only way you gonna get it! (since your UMD won't be high enough to scroll it)
One more thing, i intend to take altruism (3 ranks) in radiant servant, +3 concentration, +3 heal, + diplomacy, and +30 positive power power seems good...

BTW: level 6 now, build rocks! i did what you suggest and went more cleric, so 3/3 now!

Vellrad
11-11-2013, 04:01 AM
Ya... still looking into this, so far i follow your last spec, but changed 1 thing: i took action surge STR (twice, for a +2 STR whenever i use a boost) instead of rank 2-3 of dragonmark focus (5 use of dragon mark is enough)
Also if you go all the way to Tier 4 in human... grab teleport! it's an awesome spell, super useful, and it's the only way you gonna get it! (since your UMD won't be high enough to scroll it)
One more thing, i intend to take altruism (3 ranks) in radiant servant, +3 concentration, +3 heal, + diplomacy, and +30 positive power power seems good...

BTW: level 6 now, build rocks! i did what you suggest and went more cleric, so 3/3 now!

Altruism is not +30 spellpower alone.

its +1 heal per rank, and +10 positive at 3rd rank (13 total).

EllisDee37
11-11-2013, 04:27 AM
Also if you go all the way to Tier 4 in human... grab teleport! it's an awesome spell, super useful, and it's the only way you gonna get it! (since your UMD won't be high enough to scroll it)I can start scrolling teleport with reasonable success at 11 when I equip greensteel:

7 ranks
7 cha (14 base +6 item +2 tome +2 ship = 24 cha)
4 GH
4 human vers: skill boost
3 persuasion (ring swap)
6 greensteel cha skills
---
31 umd (80% success)

unbongwah
11-11-2013, 07:49 AM
I can start scrolling teleport with reasonable success at 11 when I equip greensteel:
While that's true, it's probably not realistic to expect new players to have their GS by lvl 11. :)

EllisDee37
11-11-2013, 08:18 AM
While that's true, it's probably not realistic to expect new players to have their GS by lvl 11. :)I was replying to a second life TR.

Choopak
11-11-2013, 01:16 PM
Altruism is not +30 spellpower alone.

its +1 heal per rank, and +10 positive at 3rd rank (13 total).

Hooo misread this, not as tempting with only + 10 positive spell power...

And for teleport... even with my GS item... it's gonna be a stretch... but i'll try it, i have faith :)

Thanks again

Vellrad
11-11-2013, 01:17 PM
And for teleport... even with my GS item... it's gonna be a stretch... but i'll try it, i have faith :)



Until your UMD is high enough, invest AP to teleport, afterwards, reset AP.

Choopak
11-11-2013, 02:42 PM
Until your UMD is high enough, invest AP to teleport, afterwards, reset AP.

Good advice! will do :)

Choopak
11-12-2013, 01:25 AM
1 sec, my leveling plan changed after a Mabar tome made my str odd. Here's what I currently have on live:

Human (24 AP) - 12 more AP compared to OP
Core: Human Versatility: Damage Boost
Core: Human Adaptability: Strength
Core: Human Versatility: Skills Boost
Core: Greater Adaptability: Constitution
Tier 1: Improved Recovery
Tier 1: Orien Dragonmark Focus III
Tier 2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
Tier 2: Fighting Style: Great Weapon Aptitude III
Tier 3: Heroism
Tier 3: Improved Recovery
Tier 4: Improved Recovery
Tier 4: Greater Heroism


I respec my enhancement to focus more on 1 group (instead of being spread out) and realize that you AP count is wrong in the Human tree: you wrote 24 AP spend, but in reality it's 27 AP ... not a big deal, just raised the question: what to drop? I can live w/o skill boost and greater human adaptability OR skill boost and 3rd rank of great weapon fighting style...
Alternately, you can chop up some AP in warpriest or kensai (doubtful) if you prefer.
I played with those enhancements so much, i know how much AP they cost from memory now, lol!
Cheers!

EllisDee37
11-12-2013, 01:52 AM
I respec my enhancement to focus more on 1 group (instead of being spread out) and realize that you AP count is wrong in the Human tree: you wrote 24 AP spend, but in reality it's 27 APIt's 24. Great Weapon Aptitude is 1 AP per rank, not 2.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5079/645m.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/645m.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

unbongwah
11-12-2013, 10:23 AM
Quick question: does Ameliorating Strike also proc on doublestrikes?

Choopak
11-12-2013, 01:31 PM
It's 24. Great Weapon Aptitude is 1 AP per rank, not 2.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5079/645m.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/645m.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Apologies good sir...

EllisDee37
11-12-2013, 02:41 PM
Quick question: does Ameliorating Strike also proc on doublestrikes?It does.

It also double strikes every time if you're TWF, once for mainhand and once for offhand. Well, 80% of the time, assuming GTWF. That's an unfortunate non-synergy with this build, but worth mentioning. It can then doublestrike for a quadruple hit, I believe.

I definitely notice it when it double strikes, since it heals for twice as much. Hard to miss that.

unbongwah
11-12-2013, 03:21 PM
Cool, had a few ideas for S&B Warpriest / Defender builds which double-striking Ameliorating Strikes would definitely help. :)

EllisDee37
11-12-2013, 04:28 PM
Cool, had a few ideas for S&B Warpriest / Defender builds which double-striking Ameliorating Strikes would definitely help. :)Yeah, plus on a double strike build you can easily max out the vulnerable on bosses. My guy has almost no double strike yet and even as a THF was able to max out vulnerable on harry the last shroud I ran.

(+20% to all damage from any source.)

Choopak
11-12-2013, 06:32 PM
Cool, had a few ideas for S&B Warpriest / Defender builds which double-striking Ameliorating Strikes would definitely help. :)

Did i miss something? Does shield and board = dual wielding with weapon and shield as off hand?
If yes can be very effective self healing tank

unbongwah
11-12-2013, 08:43 PM
Did i miss something? Does shield and board = dual wielding with weapon and shield as off hand?
If yes can be very effective self healing tank
S&B is all about the doublestrike:

15% from Shield Mastery feats & Legendary SM (US)
15% Enhancement (EE First Blood (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:First_Blood))
6% morale bonus
5% Alchemical bonus
3% Artifact bonus
3% Hail of Blows (GMoF)
25% from Block & Cut in T5 Stalwart D. tree (10 sec. duration, 20 sec. cooldown)


That's 47% base doublestrike once fully kitted out, 72% while B&C is active; so the idea would be to use B&C just before using Smite Foe to max out chance of double-procing Ameliorating Strikes. If I also double-proc Smite Weakness, well, so much the better. :)

AP costs make things tight, though: I need to spend at least 33 APs in SD for B&C, 22 APs in WP for Ameliorating Strike. Which leaves 25 APs for whatever else I need/want.

Choopak
11-12-2013, 11:09 PM
S&B is all about the doublestrike:

15% from Shield Mastery feats & Legendary SM (US)
15% Enhancement (EE First Blood (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:First_Blood))
6% morale bonus
5% Alchemical bonus
3% Artifact bonus
3% Hail of Blows (GMoF)
25% from Block & Cut in T5 Stalwart D. tree (10 sec. duration, 20 sec. cooldown)


That's 47% base doublestrike once fully kitted out, 72% while B&C is active; so the idea would be to use B&C just before using Smite Foe to max out chance of double-procing Ameliorating Strikes. If I also double-proc Smite Weakness, well, so much the better. :)

AP costs make things tight, though: I need to spend at least 33 APs in SD for B&C, 22 APs in WP for Ameliorating Strike. Which leaves 25 APs for whatever else I need/want.

oki so this build is only viable if you invest a lot in StaDef... I taugh you wanted to try the OP build, but with a shield instead of THF..

Choopak
11-13-2013, 01:56 AM
Quick question Ellis

You said you don't use this build in EE (whatever it is, lol) but you built it to level 28...
At cap level: can the build perform well enough (outside EE)?
Also, while leveling and beyong, any specific gear should i aim for (all ready have GS boots, bracers, ESoS, bunch of stuff from TOD), was really looking more of the "new stuff", expansion and whatnot...
I like to have a certain goal to end game :)

Thanks

EllisDee37
11-13-2013, 04:20 AM
You said you don't use this build in EE (whatever it is, lol) but you built it to level 28...
At cap level: can the build perform well enough (outside EE)? EE is epic elite. This build works fine in epic hard, no problem.

Choopak
11-13-2013, 05:10 PM
EE is epic elite. This build works fine in epic hard, no problem.

Haaaaa for EE, and glad to know that the build works fine... love the play style and leveling so far.

Choopak
11-13-2013, 05:13 PM
With U20 around the corner, do you foresee any major changes?
I can see Tring into the DPK, for more cheese enhancements wise... but that's about it...

Choopak
11-14-2013, 12:36 PM
Noob alert: I read a couple of times about cleric's aura, how do you get them? what they do? I look into enhancements, found out about bursts (powered by turn undead) but aura...

Panzermeyer
11-14-2013, 01:08 PM
Noob alert: I read a couple of times about cleric's aura, how do you get them? what they do? I look into enhancements, found out about bursts (powered by turn undead) but aura...

Cleric Aura is a Teir 5 enhancement of the Radiant Servant tree. It is at the top of the tree.

You must spend at least 30 points in the RS tree and have 6 cleric levels to get it.

Getting it will lock you out of any other Tier 5 abilities in any other tree. But it is a pretty potent one to have.

Choopak
11-14-2013, 02:15 PM
Cleric Aura is a Teir 5 enhancement of the Radiant Servant tree. It is at the top of the tree.

You must spend at least 30 points in the RS tree and have 6 cleric levels to get it.

Getting it will lock you out of any other Tier 5 abilities in any other tree. But it is a pretty potent one to have.


gotcha! thanks for the quick and clear answer... So for this build it would be good to have, but nearly impossible to get... To few AP to spare to get Tier 5 in RS... and beside, with tier 5 in RS, this would not be call a melee dps build anymore, hehe.

EllisDee37
11-14-2013, 11:13 PM
gotcha! thanks for the quick and clear answer... So for this build it would be good to have, but nearly impossible to get... To few AP to spare to get Tier 5 in RS... and beside, with tier 5 in RS, this would not be call a melee dps build anymore, hehe.Not really.

I tested it on lama, and aura only ends up being worth in the teens per tick. A real cleric's aura will be worth 50-100 per tick.

For this build it is much preferred to take kensei to tier 3 for the +1 crit range. (Keen Edge) "Dumping" heals almost entirely (investing 0 in the radiant servant tree) still gives you a massive amount of healing.

Choopak
11-15-2013, 12:27 AM
Not really.

I tested it on lama, and aura only ends up being worth in the teens per tick. A real cleric's aura will be worth 50-100 per tick.

For this build it is much preferred to take kensei to tier 3 for the +1 crit range. (Keen Edge) "Dumping" heals almost entirely (investing 0 in the radiant servant tree) still gives you a massive amount of healing.

Yep Ellis, came to same conclusions...
With U20 you can now TR into iconic race, even at only 20th level and restart at 15... what you think of this build as a PDK? Almost all same enhancements, and racial (feat, extra skill points)
I would miss the dragonmark (expeditious retreat is so useful at low level, and DD also), BUT all this is redeem with: For Cormyr!!! On top of it, they start as fighter...

EllisDee37
11-15-2013, 02:02 AM
It should work fine as any race. An iconic PDK version would be particularly nice if you want to start at 15.

Choopak
11-15-2013, 02:45 PM
It should work fine as any race. An iconic PDK version would be particularly nice if you want to start at 15.

Lol well your build works really good, but i'm still only level 8... Thinking ahead... Maybe to much ;-)
The thing is: there will be special feat/ past life available only to iconic... So worth considering.

LaryTrueman
11-22-2013, 07:50 AM
So... I sort of tried a build quite similar to this... only with a lot more gimmick to it. Its basically a WF Lord of The Blades Greatsword wielding kensai centered monk.
What I wanted was the following:
1. Monk for Stances and Evasion
2. Enough Fighter so I could be centered with a Greatsword
3. Enough Cleric to make using my religion's weapon Greatsword actually worth it
The split I originally came up with was Monk3/Fighter8/Cleric9... but now that I've read through this thread I'm pondering if it would be worth it giving up the ability to cast level 5 cleric Spells an Evasion for the +8 Strength boost. What are your thoughts on this? And also... the Warpriest religious weapon enhancements and Kensei Battle meditation stack right?

EllisDee37
11-22-2013, 07:59 AM
So... I sort of tried a build quite similar to this... only with a lot more gimmick to it. Its basically a WF Lord of The Blades Greatsword wielding kensai centered monk.
What I wanted was the following:
1. Monk for Stances and Evasion
2. Enough Fighter so I could be centered with a Greatsword
3. Enough Cleric to make using my religion's weapon Greatsword actually worth it
The split I originally came up with was Monk3/Fighter8/Cleric9... but now that I've read through this thread I'm pondering if it would be worth it giving up the ability to cast level 5 cleric Spells an Evasion for the +8 Strength boost. What are your thoughts on this? And also... the Warpriest religious weapon enhancements and Kensei Battle meditation stack right?The biggest reason I want 7 cleric levels is for FOM and DW to keep me immune to holds and level drains. Since you're natively immune to both, you can drop level 4 cleric spells without much concern.

I might toy around with 12/4/4 fighter/monk/cleric or 8/8/4 fighter/monk/cleric. Heck, even 12/6/2 fighter/monk/cleric might be good, though cleric 4 is nice for deity weapons.

LaryTrueman
11-22-2013, 08:20 AM
The biggest reason I want 7 cleric levels is for FOM and DW to keep me immune to holds and level drains. Since you're natively immune to both, you can drop level 4 cleric spells without much concern.

I might toy around with 12/4/4 fighter/monk/cleric or 8/8/4 fighter/monk/cleric. Heck, even 12/6/2 fighter/monk/cleric might be good, though cleric 4 is nice for deity weapons.

An excellent point. But I would also lose quite a bit of healing and buff capability I think. I really like the 12/4/4 though because it would get me the +8 strength boost, the super stylish monk feather fall AND another +2% dodge on top. Hm. :D

EDIT: And I would also lose Bladesworn Transformation... its sort of weird but damage-wise its comparable to the fighter boost although of course it comes at a greater cost.

Choopak
11-22-2013, 10:03 PM
An excellent point. But I would also lose quite a bit of healing and buff capability I think. I really like the 12/4/4 though because it would get me the +8 strength boost, the super stylish monk feather fall AND another +2% dodge on top. Hm. :D

EDIT: And I would also lose Bladesworn Transformation... its sort of weird but damage-wise its comparable to the fighter boost although of course it comes at a greater cost.

If you want to go Bot (aka forged) take a look at new bladeforged, same goodies as warforged, but no -2 CHA, so everything that need CHA is better (smites, divine might, saves, etc...)

Choopak
11-25-2013, 05:14 PM
An excellent point. But I would also lose quite a bit of healing and buff capability I think. I really like the 12/4/4 though because it would get me the +8 strength boost, the super stylish monk feather fall AND another +2% dodge on top. Hm. :D

EDIT: And I would also lose Bladesworn Transformation... its sort of weird but damage-wise its comparable to the fighter boost although of course it comes at a greater cost.

This is a better split 12/5/3 IF you go WF or BF.
Bladeforged really shine here, no pen to CHA, reconstruct as a SLA, good enhancements.
5 cleric open 3rd level spells and all the warpriest enhancements (including weapon of faith)
3 monk is enough for evasion, earth stance, and 2 feats! (level 4 give you what? slow fall?)
You'll loose some healing amp, but gain reconstruct to compensate.
One more thing: one a WF/BF platform, i'll go TWF, cost more feat, but the double proc of ameliorating strike fills your health bar even faster :)

mna
12-03-2013, 06:37 AM
I was just thinking, all the fun with Righteous Weapons going to waste and all... and then some more reflex save would be nice according to some comments...

Would something like this be viable?


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 24 True Neutral Elf Male
(10 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 8 Cleric \ 4 Epic)
Hit Points: 295
Spell Points: 545
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 17
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 24)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 13 13
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 23

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 24)
Balance 7 17
Bluff 3 7
Concentration 3 11
Diplomacy -1 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 3
Heal 1 25
Hide 3 8
Intimidate -1 3
Jump 7 22
Listen -1 5
Move Silently 3 8
Open Lock 7 12
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 5
Search 1 7
Spellcraft 1 5
Spot 3 9
Swim 6 14
Tumble 4 9
Use Magic Device 3 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Undying Court


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Weapon Meditation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Keen Edge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - One With The Blade (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Deadly Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Healing Domain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Divine Emissary of Light (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical




You'd get Evasion at level 16, and, well, I was thinking about possibly doing 10/7/3 as well but I don't think the 3rd Rogue level is all THAT good for this build - 1d6 sa and +1 saves vs traps, but at the cost of some of the already low sp and 2 spell slots.

I think the +2 str tome at 23 should be feasible for a first life toon, based on the fact that my senior (f2p first life) toon has 1722 favor currently, while at level 22. So, that's just 28 more favor until the guaranteed +2 tome choice. Or if you get that earlier, well, I left the level 21 feat open... (Maximize? Dodge?)

And of course in the new system you're supposedly able to get the 4 extra build points too with your provided +0 LR heart, as well... IF you want to use it.


(And this thing'd let you get out of the Divine sphere in Epic Destinies with comparatively little pain, being able to get centered fairly easily for GMoF.)


Sure, it could be theoretically slightly better as drow, you'd get to start with 14 Con instead of 13 and get +1 more Str while Divine Might is on. Oh, and +1 UMD and some spell resistance. Then again, no Raise Dead feat and 10% less crit range.

unbongwah
12-03-2013, 07:21 AM
Not to hijack Ellis's thread, but if you really want to go TWF, I would recommend rgr instead of ftr. That gets you your TWF & ranged feats free; you also don't have to worry as much about your DEX. Plus rgr provides a lot more skill pts to complement your rog splash. Something like rgr 12 / cleric 7 / rog 1, I would think.

mna
12-03-2013, 07:45 AM
Not to hijack Ellis's thread, but if you really want to go TWF, I would recommend rgr instead of ftr. That gets you your TWF & ranged feats free; you also don't have to worry as much about your DEX. Plus rgr provides a lot more skill pts to complement your rog splash. Something like rgr 12 / cleric 7 / rog 1, I would think.

Well yeah, but I figured that Kensei was the thing for THIS thread.


I'm actually planning to do this as a second or third life myself, for getting through GMoF and a fighter past life.

EllisDee37
12-03-2013, 09:30 AM
I don't see any reason that couldn't work well.

One thing ranger is missing is the +3 tactical feats and +3 action boosts. (Not to mention +1 crit range.) Having run through two lives of the build in the OP so far, I'm addicted to action boosts. And I lurve Power Surge, which is (for my THF) an additional +6 damage and +4 stun DC, 11 times per rest. Your TWF ameliorating strike would be epic, though.

Not sure what you meant about "get out of the divine sphere." I started in LD on my first life.

EDIT: So apparently Devastating Critical (LD, tier 5) is +1 crit range, not multiplier. Combined with Kensei's keen edge and improved critical, my eAGA crits on a 15-20x3, with 19-20x5 thanks to OC and headman's chop.

mna
12-03-2013, 10:43 AM
I don't see any reason that couldn't work well.

One thing ranger is missing is the +3 tactical feats and +3 action boosts. (Not to mention +1 crit range.) Having run through two lives of the build in the OP so far, I'm addicted to action boosts. And I lurve Power Surge, which is (for my THF) an additional +6 damage and +4 stun DC, 11 times per rest. Your TWF ameliorating strike would be epic, though.

Oh yes, TWF AS is nice. Been doing plenty of that on my cleric/ranger/rogue recently. Especially nice with the Smite Weakness stacks when you have a Blade Barrier and/or Divine Punishment going too...

Too bad AS seems to not get any benefit from metamagics.


Not sure what you meant about "get out of the divine sphere." I started in LD on my first life.


Well yeah, I was planning my ED route the other day (there's another thread on that somewhere), and then there was a thread on the usefulness or lack thereof of GMoF if you don't have monk and/or are incompatible with getting centered, and... well, start in divine and want to get to anything else or the other way 'round, you need to go through GMoF somehow. Kensei can get centered with scimitars or whatever.

(Really should've had that for deity-favored weapons in Warpriest too. Would make more sense that way. Reminds me of the army chaplain that was the local pistol champion for a long time...)

Choopak
12-03-2013, 12:10 PM
Not to hijack Ellis's thread, but if you really want to go TWF, I would recommend rgr instead of ftr. That gets you your TWF & ranged feats free; you also don't have to worry as much about your DEX. Plus rgr provides a lot more skill pts to complement your rog splash. Something like rgr 12 / cleric 7 / rog 1, I would think.

Going ranger is great if you want a meaningful range option, aka: manyshot! Not only do you get all the feat for free (you get the TWF line also as a bonus), you can forget about requirements...
Split wise: rgr12/cle7/wiz1 is also good, gives you a metafeat for free (quicken?), more SP, also open the eldritch knight tree...
One last thing, on a ranger variant, i'll go half-elf and snag the pally dilettante for saves (really the only major flaw of the OP build)

Ellis's build is really all about ease of use and efficiency, that's why it works so good, lots of synergy between the classes and the THF line.
I'm leveling one now, level 15... Ameliorating Strike is awesome! Get it, use it, love it!

mna
12-03-2013, 01:42 PM
Going ranger is great if you want a meaningful range option, aka: manyshot! Not only do you get all the feat for free (you get the TWF line also as a bonus), you can forget about requirements...
Split wise: rgr12/cle7/wiz1 is also good, gives you a metafeat for free (quicken?), more SP, also open the eldritch knight tree...

I think we need another thread for ranger/warpriest variants. I can think of several interesting possiblities easily.

Choopak
12-03-2013, 02:28 PM
I think we need another thread for ranger/warpriest variants. I can think of several interesting possiblities easily.

Indeed!!!, i would not want to rain on EllisDee37's thread...

Crann
12-08-2013, 09:50 AM
How effective have you found your FOM and DW with only 8 cleric levels. I am interested in a build like this, but am leaning towards only 4 levels of cleric.

I have noticed on a build that I run with 13 FvS levels, that my DW and FOM get dispelled alot. This was particularly irritating in an EH Tor at the end fight when those dispells were invariably followed each time by a hold and then a ding. I know I need to farm a bit more for a Pale Lavender, and a few other spell blocking items, but if I have them, then why care about self casts?

I have also noticed effects from scrolls getting dispelled faster than they do on my higher level casters, due to a lower DC check on the dispel cast.

Has this been an issue, and can others weigh in on how much more of an issue it will be in EE content?

I hate to think that the only solution to level drain and hold immunity (not to mention Flesh to stone) is to stop playing fleshies, but it really seems to be the way they are forcing it.

I have a 12f/6monk/2pally bladeforged that is likely as, if not more, self reliant and better dps than this build based partly on immunities, umd, and a Reconstruct SLA.

That should not be. Having more Cleric levels should really get you a great deal more than it does.

EllisDee37
12-08-2013, 06:09 PM
I have a 12f/6monk/2pally bladeforged that is likely as, if not more, self reliant and better dps than this build based partly on immunities, umd, and a Reconstruct SLA.

That should not be.Yes it should; that's the "I win" build.

Stormraiser
12-12-2013, 04:56 PM
If the last cleric lvl isnt important why not make it Wizard and pick up Quicken? Plus a couple of other not important things.

Why not take the last class as druid? Level 1 druid spells, + some random enchantments.

SocialRipple
12-14-2013, 03:01 AM
I'm intrigued but I have a couple of questions. My highest character is only 13 (repeater pure artificer) so I am still learning and I have no endgame experience.

1. How does the 12/8 Fighter/Cleric compare to a pure Favored Soul (warpriest)? What are the differences?

2. How do you survive traps when soloing? It feels like more than half the quests I run are full of traps and a lot of them would flat-out kill me if I didn't know where they were. What's the secret?

Thanks!

EllisDee37
12-14-2013, 03:32 AM
1. How does the 12/8 Fighter/Cleric compare to a pure Favored Soul (warpriest)? What are the differences?The fighter brings more melee dps and viable stunning fist. Heck, even my guy's native trip (not improved; no feats) reliably works in EH.

For specifics on the fighter dps over pure warpriest: +1 crit range (+2 with improved crit), +damage from kensei weapon focus enhancements, +damage from fighter weapon specialization feats, 11 30% haste boosts, 11 1-minute power surges (+8 strength), and +2 strength enhancements.

The kensei focus enhancements are a wash with warpriest favored weapons, but the rest puts kensei dps ahead of a pure warpriest in terms of melee. Also, kensei gets +8 tactics DCs more than warpriest.

That said, a warpriest dual-wielding scimitars as favored weapons does have its appeal.


2. How do you survive traps when soloing? It feels like more than half the quests I run are full of traps and a lot of them would flat-out kill me if I didn't know where they were. What's the secret?Most traps have safe spots you can navigate through if you're careful.

thouston
12-16-2013, 07:30 AM
I can start scrolling teleport with reasonable success at 11 when I equip greensteel:

7 ranks
7 cha (14 base +6 item +2 tome +2 ship = 24 cha)
4 GH
4 human vers: skill boost
3 persuasion (ring swap)
6 greensteel cha skills
---
31 umd (80% success)

for your greensteel, what item slot are you using, and what features are on it?

silasjakob
12-22-2013, 11:51 AM
I'm a new player with a 32 pt build. Can someone explain why I should go 12 INT and 8 Wis? Seems like a newb like me should go 10 in each.
Thanks in advance.

Lycurgus
12-22-2013, 12:24 PM
Ellis, have you considered 10/7/3 fighter/cleric/monk and using the ninja spy core to go dex-based? I've been playing around with a variant of that and there seems to be a lot of synergy in the enhancements.

EllisDee37
12-22-2013, 01:01 PM
I'm a new player with a 32 pt build. Can someone explain why I should go 12 INT and 8 Wis? Seems like a newb like me should go 10 in each. You can use wisdom items to qualify for casting all your spells; a single +6 item gets you the 14 wisdom needed to cast level 4 spells. The extra skill points from int are helpful.


Ellis, have you considered 10/7/3 fighter/cleric/monk and using the ninja spy core to go dex-based? I've been playing around with a variant of that and there seems to be a lot of synergy in the enhancements.As soon as you introduce monk into the equation, every cleric level is of questionable value. Start with the concept of 12/6 fighter/monk and go from there. Maybe toss in a couple pally levels for saves and you're good to go. Or maybe 12/4/4 to get native turn undead.

Dex for damage is mostly a trap. It's much easier to boost strength than dex.

stabbert
12-26-2013, 01:42 PM
Going ranger is great if you want a meaningful range option, aka: manyshot! Not only do you get all the feat for free (you get the TWF line also as a bonus), you can forget about requirements...
Split wise: rgr12/cle7/wiz1 is also good, gives you a metafeat for free (quicken?), more SP, also open the eldritch knight tree...
One last thing, on a ranger variant, i'll go half-elf and snag the pally dilettante for saves (really the only major flaw of the OP build)

Ellis's build is really all about ease of use and efficiency, that's why it works so good, lots of synergy between the classes and the THF line.
I'm leveling one now, level 15... Ameliorating Strike is awesome! Get it, use it, love it!

I want to do this but with rog instead of wiz, can anyone suggest a template with skills and enhancements so I wont mess up my build? Thanks!

What I want is 12RNG/7CLR/1ROG. Do I need to eve put points into UMD if I take that 1 level of rogue?

unbongwah
12-26-2013, 01:44 PM
See my Tempest Warpriest thread.

Nodoze
01-03-2014, 09:04 PM
This is a better split 12F/5C/3M IF you go WF or BF.
Bladeforged really shine here, no pen to CHA, reconstruct as a SLA, good enhancements.
5 cleric open 3rd level spells and all the warpriest enhancements (including weapon of faith)
3 monk is enough for evasion, earth stance, and 2 feats! (level 4 give you what? slow fall?)
You'll loose some healing amp, but gain reconstruct to compensate.
One more thing: one a WF/BF platform, i'll go TWF, cost more feat, but the double proc of ameliorating strike fills your health bar even faster :)
...

Not to hijack Ellis's thread, but if you really want to go...
...

Indeed!!!, i would not want to rain on EllisDee37's thread...I was going to reply to Choopak's reply to early ideas from LaryTrueman about changing the build to be a BladeForged but felt like it would be further hi-jacking the thread.

To not hi-jack this really good thread and to keep it focused on a "Kensei Warpriest for new players (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426765-Kensei-Warpriest-for-new-players-%28Human-12-8-Fighter-Cleric%29)" I started the new thread:

Best Righteous-Focused options (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433939-Best-Righteous-Focused-options)

My reply to Choopak's reply to Larry's & Ellis's replies are in that thread... Thanks Ellis for this really good thread that is spawning other threads... I am going to go try to read the ranger warpriest thread next...

Doutrinador
01-04-2014, 10:46 AM
I was just thinking, all the fun with Righteous Weapons going to waste and all... and then some more reflex save would be nice according to some comments...

Would something like this be viable?


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 24 True Neutral Elf Male
(10 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 8 Cleric \ 4 Epic)
Hit Points: 295
Spell Points: 545
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 17
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 24)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 13 13
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 23

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 24)
Balance 7 17
Bluff 3 7
Concentration 3 11
Diplomacy -1 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 3
Heal 1 25
Hide 3 8
Intimidate -1 3
Jump 7 22
Listen -1 5
Move Silently 3 8
Open Lock 7 12
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 5
Search 1 7
Spellcraft 1 5
Spot 3 9
Swim 6 14
Tumble 4 9
Use Magic Device 3 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Undying Court


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Weapon Meditation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Agility (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Shattering Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Keen Edge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - One With The Blade (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Deadly Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Healing Domain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Divine Emissary of Light (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spellpower: Universal (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Divine Disciple (Clr) - Spell Points (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical




You'd get Evasion at level 16, and, well, I was thinking about possibly doing 10/7/3 as well but I don't think the 3rd Rogue level is all THAT good for this build - 1d6 sa and +1 saves vs traps, but at the cost of some of the already low sp and 2 spell slots.

I think the +2 str tome at 23 should be feasible for a first life toon, based on the fact that my senior (f2p first life) toon has 1722 favor currently, while at level 22. So, that's just 28 more favor until the guaranteed +2 tome choice. Or if you get that earlier, well, I left the level 21 feat open... (Maximize? Dodge?)

And of course in the new system you're supposedly able to get the 4 extra build points too with your provided +0 LR heart, as well... IF you want to use it.


(And this thing'd let you get out of the Divine sphere in Epic Destinies with comparatively little pain, being able to get centered fairly easily for GMoF.)


Sure, it could be theoretically slightly better as drow, you'd get to start with 14 Con instead of 13 and get +1 more Str while Divine Might is on. Oh, and +1 UMD and some spell resistance. Then again, no Raise Dead feat and 10% less crit range.

Your Wis (for spell points and casting) and your Char are not to low?

GrayScioto
01-08-2014, 05:35 PM
Thanks for posting this build EllisDee37.

I had a 25th Barb that was in mothballs so I thought I would TR him into a PDK using your build.

So far it looks pretty promising. Like you, I dropped the SD tree. I used those extra points to take the special PDK enhancements like Rallying Cry, Final Stand and For Cormyr! I hope this will add to the special sauce that makes this a good self healing DPS that also acts as a force multiplier for the group or raid.

I do feel that my HP is a bit low for a 21st level at 561 before buffs in non-Unyielding Sentinel EDs. If you and the other readers could suggest some gear to flesh out my HP and healing spells along with your thoughts on the best ED that would be great. I have what one would expect for 25th Barb with mostly hand-me-down gear but it is probably easier for you all to make suggestions than for me to list my kit and you all try to fill in the gaps. Besides I don't have the game loaded for me to examine.

I would be interested in thoughts about how this could could be developed into a EE class toon. More PLs? Is it just not toon that will ever work in EE content?

Thanks again

bsquishwizzy
01-09-2014, 04:53 PM
I was looking for a THF build with backup healing for my group, without having to go FVS. Changing to Radiant Servant, I think I found it.

EllisDee37
01-09-2014, 05:30 PM
I do feel that my HP is a bit low for a 21st level at 561 before buffs in non-Unyielding Sentinel EDs. If you and the other readers could suggest some gear to flesh out my HP and healing spells along with your thoughts on the best ED that would be great. I have what one would expect for 25th Barb with mostly hand-me-down gear but it is probably easier for you all to make suggestions than for me to list my kit and you all try to fill in the gaps. Besides I don't have the game loaded for me to examine.It is a touch squishy, I admit.

I recommend using Legendary Dreadnought as your main destiny, twisting in sense weakness, rejuvenation cocoon and maybe brace for impact.


I would be interested in thoughts about how this could could be developed into a EE class toon. More PLs? Is it just not toon that will ever work in EE content?For an EE build I'd probably drop cleric and switch to fighter/pally/monk. 12 fighter, and then any of 6/2 2/6 or 4/4 for the pally/monk.

What makes this build not particularly suited for EE is the low saves and mild squishiness. I've no doubt it could handle the easy EEs, but I don't particularly care for EE so I don't run them or build for them. The reason I don't like them is because it is essentially a different game, with completely different focus. I enjoy melee and first life DC casting, while EE is more about range attacks and shirardi spamming while building for super high saves, HP and PRR. None of that appeals to me; I feel it hamstrings build variety and playstyle choices.

Brolik
03-26-2014, 06:43 AM
This THF frontline melee build happens to be new player friendly -- despite that not being one of the design goals -- with no tomes or pay classes/races required.

The genesis of the build was sparked by a discussion on paladins, where it was said that a 14/6 fighter/fvs would make a better paladin than an actual paladin due to having better dps and heals. I took the idea and ran with it, eventually settling on 12/8 fighter/cleric to get deathward, fom and better heals. I originally rolled up the character before the enhancement pass and it was super fun to play. Now with the introduction of the warpriest tree I think it's ready to post. Compared to a paladin build, this will have better dps, viable tactics in the form of stunning blow, but weaker heals and much lower saves.

No tomes are required or listed. If you happen to have a +2 int tome put the extra skill points into Balance or Jump. 28pt versions will need to grab a +1 strength tome at level 23 in order to qualify for Overwhelming Critical, but any epic character can easily afford to buy a +1 tome off the ah.

Alignment doesn't matter. In general True Neutral is best because it takes the least amount of damage from mobs. However, you might consider Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Good if you want to freely wield True Chaos and/or Pure Good weapons without a umd check.

Human is preferred for the extra skill points and DDoor clickie. If you want to go with a different race, drop the dragonmark and sacrifice the heal skill. Ideally use a +2 int tome by level 7 to minimize the shortfall, but it should work even without an int tome. Non-humans get 12 AP to play with in either their racial tree or the various class trees.

The level 21 feat is player's choice; take whatever feat you like there. I recommend either Improved Sunder, Bulwark of Defense, Quicken or Toughness, but none of them are pivotal to the build so any feat you like is fine. Heck, even Skill Focus: UMD might be worth considering. Take Overwhelming Critical @ 21 if you qualify and push the player's choice feat back to 24.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Kensei Warpriest
Level 28 Human
(12 Fighter / 8 Cleric / 8 Epic)

Abilities 28pt 32pt 34pt 36pt
Strength 16 18 18 18
Dexterity 8 8 8 8
Constitution 14 14 14 16
Intelligence 12 12 12 12
Wisdom 10 8 10 8
Charisma 14 14 14 14

Skills Ranks
Concentration 23
Heal 22
UMD 11
Jump 4
Balance 3
Tumble 1

Feats
1 : Power Attack
1H: Least Dragonmark of Passage
1F: Cleave
2F: Stunning Blow
3 : Weapon Focus: Slashing
3C: Follower of the Sovereign Host
6 : Great Cleave
6F: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
9 : Empower Healing Spell
10F: Improved Crit: Slashing
12 : Extend
13C: Unyielding Sovereignty
14F: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
15 : THF
17F: ITHF
18 : GTHF
19F: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
21E: Bulwark of Defense or Improved Sunder or Quicken or Toughness
24E: Overwhelming Critical
26D: Tactician
27E: Blinding Speed
28D: Perfect Two Handed Fighting

Legendary Dreadnought
Legendary Tactics III
Extra Action Boost III
Momentum Swing III
Improved Power Attack
Lay Waste
Critical Damage III
Anvil of Thunder
Devastating Critical
Headman's Chop
Master's Blitz
Twist 1: Sense Weakness
Twist 2: Rejuvenation Cocoon
Twist 3: Brace For Impact


Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Passage
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Human Core: Human Versatility: Damage Boost
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus I
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Kensei Focus
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Kensei1: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost III


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Protection from Evil
Enhancement: Warpriest Core: Smite Foe
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Divine Might I
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Divine Might II
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Divine Might III


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Spiritual Bond
Enhancement: Kensei2: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Toughness I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus II
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus III
Enhancement: Human1: Improved Recovery


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei2: Tactics I
Enhancement: Kensei3: Kensei Weapon Specialization


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (2): Eagle's Splendor
Enhancement: Kensei3: Strength
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Toughness II
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Toughness III


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Core: Human Adaptability: Strength
Enhancement: Human2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (2): Aid
Enhancement: Human3: Improved Recovery
Enhancement: Kensei2: Tactics II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Warpriest Core: Resilience of Battle
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Strike With No Thought
Enhancement: Kensei2: Tactics III


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Protection from Energy
Spell (3): Prayer
Enhancement: Kensei1: Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Kensei4: Strength


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Smite Weakness
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Strength


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Enhancement: Kensei1: Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei1: Extra Action Boost III


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei4: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Enhancement: Kensei5: Keen Edge
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Inflame I


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Death Ward
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Inflame II
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Inflame III
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Wall of Steel I
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Wall of Steel II


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Wall of Steel III
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Inflame: Energy Absorption I
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Inflame: Energy Absorption II
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Inflame: Energy Absorption III


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Warpriest4: Ameliorating Strike
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender Core: Toughness
Enhancement: SD1: Resilient Defense I


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: SD1: Resilient Defense II
Enhancement: SD1: Resilient Defense III
Enhancement: SD1: Stalwart Defensive Mastery


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Power Surge
Enhancement: SD2: Durable Defense I
Enhancement: SD2: Durable Defense II
Enhancement: SD2: Durable Defense III


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (3): Aid, Mass
Spell (4): Recitation
Enhancement: SD Core: Overbalance
Enhancement: SD Core: Stalwart Defense
Enhancement: SD3: Strength


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Bulwark of Defense or Improved Sunder or Quicken or Toughness


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical



Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Tactician


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


<End of Build>

Designed to play like a paladin, you start off with two fighter levels and then alternate the next 13 levels between cleric and fighter. This grows your self-healing with you as you level while always keeping a fighter icon in parties so you won't be mistaken for a healer. The final cleric level is pushed back to 20 since it only adds marginal benefit.

Choose the Kensei Weapon Focus applicable to your weapons, and feel free to reset the tree to change your weapon focus as you level. As an example, I use a crafted greatsword (heavy blades) from level 1 to 3, switch to carnifex (axes) from 4 to 7, back to greatswords (Sword of the Thirty & Whirlwind) from 8 to 19, then finally settle on Epic Antique Greataxe for 20+.

Here are the complete enhancements by tree for easy respecing in and out:

Human (12 AP)
Core: Human Versatility: Damage Boost
Core: Human Adaptability: Strength
Tier 1: Improved Recovery
Tier 1: Orien Dragonmark Focus III
Tier 2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
Tier 3: Improved Recovery

Kensei (32 AP)
Core: Kensei Focus
Core: Spiritual Bond
Core: Strike With No Thought
Core: Power Surge
Tier 1: Extra Action Boost III
Tier 1: Haste Boost III
Tier 1: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 2: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 2: Tactics III
Tier 3: Strength
Tier 3: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 4: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 4: Strength
Tier 5: Keen Edge

Warpriest (23 AP)
Core: Smite Foe
Core: Resilience of Battle
Tier 1: Divine Might III
Tier 1: Toughness III
Tier 2: Inflame III
Tier 2: Smite Weakness
Tier 2: Wall of Steel III
Tier 3: Inflame: Energy Absorption III
Tier 3: Strength
Tier 4: Ameliorating Strike

Stalwart Defender (13 AP)
Core: Toughness
Core: Overbalance
Core: Stalwart Defense
Tier 1: Stalwart Defensive Mastery
Tier 1: Resilient Defense III
Tier 2: Durable Defense III
Tier 3: Strength

This is a great build.. especially for new players. I say this from experience as its similar to what I did on my 2nd life . I went dwarf with axe and shield and used stalwart mixed with kensei and some out of the cleric tree. did decent enough damage tanked solid enough (didn't run in epic long enough but prob not great for that) and was able to assist in party healing along with 95% chance on ress scrolls. There was quit a few times I saved party with build and for a 2nd life noob it felt great :)

Choopak
04-07-2014, 01:06 PM
It is a touch squishy, I admit.

I recommend using Legendary Dreadnought as your main destiny, twisting in sense weakness, rejuvenation cocoon and maybe brace for impact.

For an EE build I'd probably drop cleric and switch to fighter/pally/monk. 12 fighter, and then any of 6/2 2/6 or 4/4 for the pally/monk.

What makes this build not particularly suited for EE is the low saves and mild squishiness. I've no doubt it could handle the easy EEs, but I don't particularly care for EE so I don't run them or build for them. The reason I don't like them is because it is essentially a different game, with completely different focus. I enjoy melee and first life DC casting, while EE is more about range attacks and shirardi spamming while building for super high saves, HP and PRR. None of that appeals to me; I feel it hamstrings build variety and playstyle choices.

Sad... but true, i ran this build up to level 25... works real good in EN, EH... But at EE (or new raids), you get kill by casters/ traps... Saves are the downfall...

2 questions: 1) did you tried new weapons from dragon's raids? a nice thunderforged greataxe is tasty...
2) did you took a look a new destiny: divine crusader? it screams kensai/ warpriest, lots of good stuff for this build there...

EllisDee37
04-07-2014, 01:15 PM
2 questions: 1) did you tried new weapons from dragon's raids? a nice thunderforged greataxe is tasty...
2) did you took a look a new destiny: divine crusader? it screams kensai/ warpriest, lots of good stuff for this build there...I haven't bought the new packs yet only because I'm in the middle of heroic TRing my paladin.

My paladin is definitely keeping an eye on divine crusader, hoping it works but the drastic dropoff in dps going from blitz to wrath will be an issue. The kensei warpriest will stay in LD. I prefer this because that will (theoretically) give me a fighter LD, paladin DC and ranger fury, for maximum variety.

But yeah, I can definitely see the appeal of divine crusader for this build, at least in raids.

Ninaran
05-12-2014, 07:41 PM
Hi and thanks for that build! :)

I've been using it and just arrived at Level 3 (Rank 13) and it's going fine so far. I have a question however, I cannot use any Cleric spells yet, it says I'm missing attribute points.

I followed the level list on the first point completely, but at level 3 (Fighter 2 / Cleric 1) it tells me to grab

Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Protection from Evil

However, I cannot learn those.

Am I doing something wrong or do I have to wait for a while until I have increased my Wisdom to actually use the spells? The attributes I went with are

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 14

Vellrad
05-12-2014, 07:44 PM
Hi and thanks for that build! :)

I've been using it and just arrived at Level 3 (Rank 13) and it's going fine so far. I have a question however, I cannot use any Cleric spells yet, it says I'm missing attribute points.

I followed the level list on the first point completely, but at level 3 (Fighter 2 / Cleric 1) it tells me to grab

Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Protection from Evil

However, I cannot learn those.

Am I doing something wrong or do I have to wait for a while until I have increased my Wisdom to actually use the spells? The attributes I went with are

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 14

get a wisdom item.

EllisDee37
05-12-2014, 08:23 PM
Hi and thanks for that build! :)

I've been using it and just arrived at Level 3 (Rank 13) and it's going fine so far. I have a question however, I cannot use any Cleric spells yet, it says I'm missing attribute points.

I followed the level list on the first point completely, but at level 3 (Fighter 2 / Cleric 1) it tells me to grab

Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Protection from Evil

However, I cannot learn those.

Am I doing something wrong or do I have to wait for a while until I have increased my Wisdom to actually use the spells? The attributes I went with are

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 14Until you get a wisdom item you can use Owl's Wisdom potions, sold in the marketplace.

Ninaran
05-13-2014, 04:27 PM
Until you get a wisdom item you can use Owl's Wisdom potions, sold in the marketplace.

get a wisdom item.

Ah. Okay thank you, I'll keep my eyes open for those! :)

I think I'll just redo my character and choose that Necklace from Korthos Island that gives +1 Wisdom.

And by "Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host" on level 3, you mean "Follower of the Sovereign Host", right?

//Edit: Yeah, the +1 Wisdom from the necklace is enough to cast spells. Woohoo! :)
Too bad attribute bonuses from items don't stack. Had a +1 Strength Ring and one +1 Strength Helmet. Only gives +1 overall, not +2.

NaturalHazard
05-13-2014, 11:33 PM
I have a pure bard sitting at level 24 I want to get it to 28 and tr it, and I would like a fighter past life, was thinking of doing this build with using a 20+ lesser heart that we get. But sort of changed my mind and am thinking of 12 fighter 7 druid 1 bard, should be able to do that split yes with that 20+ lesser heart? I can use rams might and the bard song for str, its +6 to strength and +4 to damage right? which should be close to what I could be getting for divine might anway? And I can have the druid double strike ability and maybe fatal harrier so more dps than a cleric splash? I also should still be able to use my dragon scale right? No dw but I have pot and items, and can get fom. Bard for umd as a class skill and I might take that as the first level if I can do that three way split heard there was issues with using those hearts if people wanted to multiclass?

Want druid just cause...........well I haven't used it yet and bought the class ages ago.

NaturalHazard
05-13-2014, 11:35 PM
Ah. Okay thank you, I'll keep my eyes open for those! :)

I think I'll just redo my character and choose that Necklace from Korthos Island that gives +1 Wisdom.

And by "Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host" on level 3, you mean "Follower of the Sovereign Host", right?

//Edit: Yeah, the +1 Wisdom from the necklace is enough to cast spells. Woohoo! :)
Too bad attribute bonuses from items don't stack. Had a +1 Strength Ring and one +1 Strength Helmet. Only gives +1 overall, not +2.

I think you can use a +1 wisdom tome, though might be too expensive for someone on their first toon, not sure if I have any, what server do you play on?

Ninaran
05-22-2014, 05:17 AM
I think you can use a +1 wisdom tome, though might be too expensive for someone on their first toon, not sure if I have any, what server do you play on?

I play on Sarlona.

But I got a necklace with +1 Wisdom, so I can cast spells now and be fine for now. Thanks, though. :3

EllisDee37
05-22-2014, 04:43 PM
I have a pure bard sitting at level 24 I want to get it to 28 and tr it, and I would like a fighter past life, was thinking of doing this build with using a 20+ lesser heart that we get. But sort of changed my mind and am thinking of 12 fighter 7 druid 1 bard, should be able to do that split yes with that 20+ lesser heart? I can use rams might and the bard song for str, its +6 to strength and +4 to damage right? which should be close to what I could be getting for divine might anway? And I can have the druid double strike ability and maybe fatal harrier so more dps than a cleric splash? I also should still be able to use my dragon scale right? No dw but I have pot and items, and can get fom. Bard for umd as a class skill and I might take that as the first level if I can do that three way split heard there was issues with using those hearts if people wanted to multiclass?

Want druid just cause...........well I haven't used it yet and bought the class ages ago.12/7/1 fighter/druid/bard should work well.

As for LR+20ing into it from a pure bard, I believe it should work without issue. The problems people had usually boiled down to trying to take a "4th" class, where you start with a three-class character and then try to take a fourth class in the early levels before you've removed all the levels from one of the first three.

Reyjak
05-27-2014, 02:08 AM
Could you please post your version of this build with fvs instead of cleric I'm curious how it would

NaturalHazard
05-29-2014, 11:44 PM
I play on Sarlona.

But I got a necklace with +1 Wisdom, so I can cast spells now and be fine for now. Thanks, though. :3

ah yep, sorry slow reply but am on khyber. Hope your enjoying the game.


12/7/1 fighter/druid/bard should work well.

As for LR+20ing into it from a pure bard, I believe it should work without issue. The problems people had usually boiled down to trying to take a "4th" class, where you start with a three-class character and then try to take a fourth class in the early levels before you've removed all the levels from one of the first three.

Ah thanks yeah I put bard in there because I heard of that reason, rogue or arti would of been better but get umd and some other stuff like the str boost.

Smythe-Tech
07-07-2014, 11:54 AM
I like this and I'm probably going to use it on my 3rd life since fun for running around with. I do need to ask though: what about replacing THF with the SWF line instead? Would that help increase the potential of the build or are the requirements just that little bit too stringent to meet?

EllisDee37
07-07-2014, 12:33 PM
I like this and I'm probably going to use it on my 3rd life since fun for running around with. I do need to ask though: what about replacing THF with the SWF line instead? Would that help increase the potential of the build or are the requirements just that little bit too stringent to meet?I hadn't considered it. Wouldn't you rather go bard for a SWF since bards have an actual SWF enhancement tree to play with?

Nightmanis
07-07-2014, 04:31 PM
I hadn't considered it. Wouldn't you rather go bard for a SWF since bards have an actual SWF enhancement tree to play with?

If you were to do that I'd go with either a rapier or a bastard sword. Better yet, Celestia and offhand an orb.

Vindraxx
07-25-2014, 01:17 PM
I'm thinking about TR'ing into a PDK fighter and I'm thinking of trying this build. I've never played a fighter before and I just was wondering if there are any recommendations people would have for adapting this. My goal would be to get back to 28 through questing on EH, not worried about EE content. I don't have any melee weapons stashed, was thinking of running a greatsword assuming I can find a decent one. Here's some things I'm still trying to figure out:

Assuming I go 12FTR/7CLR/1, what should that 1 be? Would it be more worthwhile to just stick to the 12/8 split?
For the PDK tree, what should I consider picking up? Obviously the healing amp, but what about Action surge STR and maybe even CHA for damage? Assuming I go through Final Stand to get For Cormyr, would it be worth putting ranks in intimidate? Is purple dragon focus worth the 3 AP's to get temp hit points on action boost usage?
Other suggestions?

Nodoze
07-25-2014, 03:19 PM
I'm thinking about TR'ing into a PDK fighter and I'm thinking of trying this build. I've never played a fighter before and I just was wondering if there are any recommendations people would have for adapting this. My goal would be to get back to 28 through questing on EH, not worried about EE content. I don't have any melee weapons stashed, was thinking of running a greatsword assuming I can find a decent one. Here's some things I'm still trying to figure out:

Assuming I go 12FTR/7CLR/1, what should that 1 be? Would it be more worthwhile to just stick to the 12/8 split?
For the PDK tree, what should I consider picking up? Obviously the healing amp, but what about Action surge STR and maybe even CHA for damage? Assuming I go through Final Stand to get For Cormyr, would it be worth putting ranks in intimidate? Is purple dragon focus worth the 3 AP's to get temp hit points on action boost usage?
Other suggestions?A PDK vs Human can have many benefits including starting at level 15 etc... I personally have a Charisma based PDK and like him very much but the OP's build is Strength based and I would keep it that way as I just don't see the benefits basing off of Charisma outweighing the negatives for this build (and many/most builds)...

AFAIK none of the PDK abilities (Focus/Aura/Action Surges/Rallying Cry/Final Stand/For Cormyr/etc) require you to use PDK weapons and the benefits of being PDK Charisma based for those abilities seem lack-luster or single use...

I am sure I am missing many things but the main things that come to mind are:

- Going Charisma based will drop your Tactics;
- Going Charisma based won't really help your saves without Divine Grace (and that may get nerfed soon anyway);
- Going Charisma based will hurt your static damage as there are more ways to boost Strength (Divine Might/rages/etc);
- Even if you had a 100 intimidate, 100 temp HPs X/rest isn't worth that much (example you can get 150 from twisting Cocoon and I don't know if they stack);
- Getting a Morale bonus to weapon damage equal to your Charisma modifier for two minutes is interesting but only 1/rest makes it less viable to build around;
- Being locked into PDK weapons often leads to sub-par DPS (shortswords, longswords, and greatswords) unless maybe if you were a S&B build using THF with a bastard sword or had an eSOS and really high stats/gear; Likely you would be better off going PDK Strength based with a ThunderForged Falchion or Legendary Dred with Axes than PDK Charisma with Greatswords...

The above being said if you were instead going 12F/6C/2Paladin then maybe there would be more synergy there but likely Charisma could still be more of a trap than a boon (especially if/when they nerf Divine Grace for Paladin-2 splashes)...

Another option if you really wanted Greatswords and WarPriest bonuses with weapons you could look to go BladeForged but you only get single proc ASes either way...

Whether you go PDK or Human my gut says on your first go around with the build I would stick with the build "as is" getting the Healing Amp and just otherwise moving AP around. Later after you explore the build more you can LR+x and compare things if you want or do a TR if you like the go around...

Vindraxx
07-25-2014, 03:42 PM
Thanks Nodoze. Yes I wasn't considering changing this to a CHA build, but rather just wondering if there was anything else I should look to change if I go PDK versus human. I'm interested in playing a melee, but I'm very used to having good self healing on hand (Cleric, WF Arti, bard, etc...) so I just didn't want to potentially lock myself into something that I'm not ready to handle (mainly not having good gear set aside for him). This will be my character's 4th TR and I don't want to get him trapped halfway to 28. However, I suppose if I really screw it up I still have a +20 heart I could use to fix him.

Nodoze
07-25-2014, 03:53 PM
Thanks Nodoze. Yes I wasn't considering changing this to a CHA build, but rather just wondering if there was anything else I should look to change if I go PDK versus human. I'm interested in playing a melee, but I'm very used to having good self healing on hand (Cleric, WF Arti, bard, etc...) so I just didn't want to potentially lock myself into something that I'm not ready to handle (mainly not having good gear set aside for him). This will be my character's 4th TR and I don't want to get him trapped halfway to 28. However, I suppose if I really screw it up I still have a +20 heart I could use to fix him.With the original build as is (just swapping the dragon mark and some AP around) I think you will have great fun leveling to 28 per your plan on EH and below. Going strength based THF with Great Axes in LD can give you some fun huge crits though going Falchion will be less spiky giving smaller crits more often... Both should give you very strong DPS.

Having good self-healing on a Melee always makes for great fun for me so I hope you also get that experience...

Sorry for assuming you were planning on going Charisma based. I made that incorrect assumption when I saw you were thinking of going GreatSwords at the Epic levels and asking questions based off of charisma bonuses to PDK abilities. I would personally steer clear of GreatSwords until they release better ones that are reasonably obtainable (unless you have an eSOS lying around or have a theme that warrants them).

EllisDee37
07-25-2014, 06:42 PM
I've been considering redoing the posted enhancements for this build, using the following logic:

Ameliorating strike requires 22 AP, and is first available at cleric level 4 (level 9 in the build)
Keen Edge requires 31 AP, and is first available at fighter level 8 (level 14 in the build)
DDoor is one of my favoritest things ever, and costs 7 AP in the human tree

22 warpriest + 31 kensei + 7 human = 60 AP, which is level 15

That means DDoor essentially pushes keen edge back from level 14 (earliest possible) to 15. That's acceptable to me. So the leveling concept then becomes:

29 AP spent in human and warpriest by level 9. Level 9 = 36 AP, leaving 7 AP for kensei haste boost and maybe an extra action boost or something. DDoor may be pushed back to level 5 if you take strength +1 instead of 10% amp, but regardless you get DDoor by 5.

The broad strokes takeaway is that you're essentially giving up the stalwart defender tree until after level 15, which works for me. I might not even take the defensive stance since I never use a shield. Maybe toss the remaining AP into human for more amp, GH and teleport.

My current (third) life on this build is level 6 right now; I'm going to get to 9 to try out ameliorating strike at low levels to see how worthwhile it is before making any enhancement changes.

The big news is that the defensive stance may change from requiring a shield to requiring heavy armor. This build wears heavy armor, so, ..., that's a major change. I'm hesitant to update the build now, only to have to update it again when they change defensive stance. But since it's only changing enhancements, I might go ahead and update it both now and when stances change. (Unlike my recent updating of the tempest trapmonkey build, which tweaked the skills, feats, and even leveling order.)

EDIT: It's also worth noting that the good stuff in stalwart defender after the change merits 26 AP in the SD tree. That means some hard choices will have to be made: 7 human + 31 kensei + 22 warpriest + 26 defender = 86 AP.

Nodoze
07-26-2014, 09:36 AM
I've been considering redoing the posted enhancements for this build, using the following logic:

Ameliorating strike requires 22 AP, and is first available at cleric level 4 (level 9 in the build)
Keen Edge requires 31 AP, and is first available at fighter level 8 (level 14 in the build)
DDoor is one of my favoritest things ever, and costs 7 AP in the human tree

22 warpriest + 31 kensei + 7 human = 60 AP, which is level 15

That means DDoor essentially pushes keen edge back from level 14 (earliest possible) to 15. That's acceptable to me. So the leveling concept then becomes:

29 AP spent in human and warpriest by level 9. Level 9 = 36 AP, leaving 7 AP for kensei haste boost and maybe an extra action boost or something. DDoor may be pushed back to level 5 if you take strength +1 instead of 10% amp, but regardless you get DDoor by 5.

The broad strokes takeaway is that you're essentially giving up the stalwart defender tree until after level 15, which works for me. I might not even take the defensive stance since I never use a shield. Maybe toss the remaining AP into human for more amp, GH and teleport.

My current (third) life on this build is level 6 right now; I'm going to get to 9 to try out ameliorating strike at low levels to see how worthwhile it is before making any enhancement changes.

The big news is that the defensive stance may change from requiring a shield to requiring heavy armor. This build wears heavy armor, so, ..., that's a major change. I'm hesitant to update the build now, only to have to update it again when they change defensive stance. But since it's only changing enhancements, I might go ahead and update it both now and when stances change. (Unlike my recent updating of the tempest trapmonkey build, which tweaked the skills, feats, and even leveling order.)

EDIT: It's also worth noting that the good stuff in stalwart defender after the change merits 26 AP in the SD tree. That means some hard choices will have to be made: 7 human + 31 kensei + 22 warpriest + 26 defender = 86 AP.Very interesting and please update what you find. I like the idea of heavy armor becoming more viable/helpful.

EllisDee37
07-26-2014, 10:09 PM
EDIT: It's also worth noting that the good stuff in stalwart defender after the change merits 26 AP in the SD tree. That means some hard choices will have to be made: 7 human + 31 kensei + 22 warpriest + 26 defender = 86 AP.Looking more closely, it appears that if you settle for just +6 strength from tier 3 stalwart defender, forgoing +6 con/+20% hit points, faster movement and tier 4 strength, everything fits without issue:

Human (8 AP)
1 Damage Boost
2 Amp 10%
2 Strength
1 Extra Dragonmark I
2 DDoor

Kensei (32 AP)
4 Power Surge (all four cores)
3 Haste Boost III
6 Extra Action Boost III
6 Tactics III
4 Strengthx2
8 Kensei Weapon Specializationx4
1 Keen Edge

Warpriest (24 AP)
2 cores (DR 5/-; meh, but what the heck)
3 Divine Might III
3 Toughness III
5 Inflame (wherever you want to put these 5; inflame III absorption II?)
3 Wall of Steel III
4 Strengthx2
2 Smite Weakness
2 Ameliorating Strike

Stalwart Defender (16 AP)
3 stance (all three cores)
3 stance saves III
2 max dex bonus I (padding to meet points prereqs for tiers 2 & 3)
3 stance PRR III
3 greater stance strength III
2 strength

Which works out to:

8 Human
32 Kensei
24 Warpriest
16 Stalwart Defender
----
80 AP total

It all fits just well enough to be satisfying. We would quite enjoy another 11 AP in stalwart defender: 4 (mdb III instead of I) to get to 20 AP spent, then another 3 for +6 con or +20% HP, 2 for +1 strength and 2 for faster movement in stance, but there's no way to get that without sacrificing ameliorating strike, which is one of the nicer (and more tangible) features of the build. Or, I guess, we could sacrifice Keen Edge, but that's crazy talk. (If we did, we could get both +6 con and +20% hit points. instead of one or the other.)

I'm pretty happy with this breakdown, and the only thing that depends on the changes to stance are the 3 AP for +6 strength. Those can easily be put to good use in the human tree, so no worries there.

I'm hoping to update the build in the near future, after I get mine back up to 9 to test out ameliorating strike at the low levels.

Vindraxx
07-28-2014, 11:02 AM
Just an update, I chickened out of TR'ing my character this past weekend into this build. Instead I sent him back to 20 and started my climb back to 28 to unlock all of the primal destinies. I figured it would be more helpful to have access to Cocoon and some additional Twist of Fate points before trying this out. It's still on my list to do, but I want to make sure I'm as prepared as possible going from caster/arti to melee. I might actually just unlock all the destinies first before trying it.

xBunny
09-17-2014, 02:33 PM
This THF frontline melee build happens to be new player friendly -- despite that not being one of the design goals -- with no tomes or pay classes/races required.

The genesis of the build was sparked by a discussion on paladins, where it was said that a 14/6 fighter/fvs would make a better paladin than an actual paladin due to having better dps and heals. I took the idea and ran with it, eventually settling on 12/8 fighter/cleric to get deathward, fom and better heals. I originally rolled up the character before the enhancement pass and it was super fun to play. Now with the introduction of the warpriest tree I think it's ready to post. Compared to a paladin build, this will have better dps, viable tactics in the form of stunning blow, but weaker heals and much lower saves.

No tomes are required or listed. If you happen to have a +2 int tome put the extra skill points into Balance or Jump. 28pt versions will need to grab a +1 strength tome at level 23 in order to qualify for Overwhelming Critical, but any epic character can easily afford to buy a +1 tome off the ah.

Alignment doesn't matter. In general True Neutral is best because it takes the least amount of damage from mobs. However, you might consider Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Good if you want to freely wield True Chaos and/or Pure Good weapons without a umd check.

Human is preferred for the extra skill points and DDoor clickie. If you want to go with a different race, drop the dragonmark and sacrifice the heal skill. Ideally use a +2 int tome by level 7 to minimize the shortfall, but it should work even without an int tome. Non-humans get 12 AP to play with in either their racial tree or the various class trees.

The level 21 feat is player's choice; take whatever feat you like there. I recommend either Improved Sunder, Bulwark of Defense, Quicken or Toughness, but none of them are pivotal to the build so any feat you like is fine. Heck, even Skill Focus: UMD might be worth considering. Take Overwhelming Critical @ 21 if you qualify and push the player's choice feat back to 24.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Kensei Warpriest
Level 28 Human
(12 Fighter / 8 Cleric / 8 Epic)

Abilities 28pt 32pt 34pt 36pt
Strength 16 18 18 18
Dexterity 8 8 8 8
Constitution 14 14 14 16
Intelligence 12 12 12 12
Wisdom 10 8 10 8
Charisma 14 14 14 14

Skills Ranks
Concentration 23
Heal 22
UMD 11
Jump 4
Balance 3
Tumble 1

Feats
1 : Power Attack
1H: Least Dragonmark of Passage
1F: Cleave
2F: Stunning Blow
3 : Weapon Focus: Slashing
3C: Follower of the Sovereign Host
6 : Great Cleave
6F: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
9 : Empower Healing Spell
10F: Improved Crit: Slashing
12 : Extend
13C: Unyielding Sovereignty
14F: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
15 : THF
17F: ITHF
18 : GTHF
19F: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
21E: Bulwark of Defense or Improved Sunder or Quicken or Toughness
24E: Overwhelming Critical
26D: Tactician
27E: Blinding Speed
28D: Perfect Two Handed Fighting

Legendary Dreadnought
Legendary Tactics III
Extra Action Boost III
Momentum Swing III
Improved Power Attack
Lay Waste
Critical Damage III
Anvil of Thunder
Devastating Critical
Headman's Chop
Master's Blitz
Twist 1: Sense Weakness
Twist 2: Rejuvenation Cocoon
Twist 3: Brace For Impact


Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Passage
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Human Core: Human Versatility: Damage Boost
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus I
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Kensei Focus
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Kensei1: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost III


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Protection from Evil
Enhancement: Warpriest Core: Smite Foe
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Divine Might I
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Divine Might II
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Divine Might III


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Spiritual Bond
Enhancement: Kensei2: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Toughness I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus II
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus III
Enhancement: Human1: Improved Recovery


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei2: Tactics I
Enhancement: Kensei3: Kensei Weapon Specialization


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (2): Eagle's Splendor
Enhancement: Kensei3: Strength
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Toughness II
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Toughness III


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Core: Human Adaptability: Strength
Enhancement: Human2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (2): Aid
Enhancement: Human3: Improved Recovery
Enhancement: Kensei2: Tactics II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Warpriest Core: Resilience of Battle
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Strike With No Thought
Enhancement: Kensei2: Tactics III


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Protection from Energy
Spell (3): Prayer
Enhancement: Kensei1: Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Kensei4: Strength


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Smite Weakness
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Strength


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Enhancement: Kensei1: Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei1: Extra Action Boost III


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei4: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Enhancement: Kensei5: Keen Edge
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Inflame I


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Death Ward
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Inflame II
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Inflame III
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Wall of Steel I
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Wall of Steel II


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Wall of Steel III
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Inflame: Energy Absorption I
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Inflame: Energy Absorption II
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Inflame: Energy Absorption III


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Warpriest4: Ameliorating Strike
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender Core: Toughness
Enhancement: SD1: Resilient Defense I


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: SD1: Resilient Defense II
Enhancement: SD1: Resilient Defense III
Enhancement: SD1: Stalwart Defensive Mastery


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Power Surge
Enhancement: SD2: Durable Defense I
Enhancement: SD2: Durable Defense II
Enhancement: SD2: Durable Defense III


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (3): Aid, Mass
Spell (4): Recitation
Enhancement: SD Core: Overbalance
Enhancement: SD Core: Stalwart Defense
Enhancement: SD3: Strength


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Bulwark of Defense or Improved Sunder or Quicken or Toughness


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical



Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Tactician


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


<End of Build>

Designed to play like a paladin, you start off with two fighter levels and then alternate the next 13 levels between cleric and fighter. This grows your self-healing with you as you level while always keeping a fighter icon in parties so you won't be mistaken for a healer. The final cleric level is pushed back to 20 since it only adds marginal benefit.

Choose the Kensei Weapon Focus applicable to your weapons, and feel free to reset the tree to change your weapon focus as you level. As an example, I use a crafted greatsword (heavy blades) from level 1 to 3, switch to carnifex (axes) from 4 to 7, back to greatswords (Sword of the Thirty & Whirlwind) from 8 to 19, then finally settle on Epic Antique Greataxe for 20+.

Here are the complete enhancements by tree for easy respecing in and out:

Human (12 AP)
Core: Human Versatility: Damage Boost
Core: Human Adaptability: Strength
Tier 1: Improved Recovery
Tier 1: Orien Dragonmark Focus III
Tier 2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
Tier 3: Improved Recovery

Kensei (32 AP)
Core: Kensei Focus
Core: Spiritual Bond
Core: Strike With No Thought
Core: Power Surge
Tier 1: Extra Action Boost III
Tier 1: Haste Boost III
Tier 1: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 2: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 2: Tactics III
Tier 3: Strength
Tier 3: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 4: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Tier 4: Strength
Tier 5: Keen Edge

Warpriest (23 AP)
Core: Smite Foe
Core: Resilience of Battle
Tier 1: Divine Might III
Tier 1: Toughness III
Tier 2: Inflame III
Tier 2: Smite Weakness
Tier 2: Wall of Steel III
Tier 3: Inflame: Energy Absorption III
Tier 3: Strength
Tier 4: Ameliorating Strike

Stalwart Defender (13 AP)
Core: Toughness
Core: Overbalance
Core: Stalwart Defense
Tier 1: Stalwart Defensive Mastery
Tier 1: Resilient Defense III
Tier 2: Durable Defense III
Tier 3: Strength

Level 3 Cleric Feat "Favored by the Sovereign Host". Didn`t find such. Maybe it was meant "Follower of the Sovereign Host"?

EllisDee37
09-17-2014, 05:31 PM
Level 3 Cleric Feat "Favored by the Sovereign Host". Didn`t find such. Maybe it was meant "Follower of the Sovereign Host"?Good catch, corrected. While I was in there I noticed that Unyielding Sovereignty was missing from the level 13 section so I added that as well. (Both were listed correctly in the feat summary at the top of the build.)

xBunny
09-17-2014, 07:29 PM
Good catch, corrected. While I was in there I noticed that Unyielding Sovereignty was missing from the level 13 section so I added that as well. (Both were listed correctly in the feat summary at the top of the build.)

Thx for the quick reply. I have one question though. What for "Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Passage" is needed? I have guild buff named Chronoscope wich gives me +40% movement speed (it says in public aera but it seems to work everywhere). So maybe i should replace this Feat with something more usefull??
P.S. I didn`t play for long time and i cant remember if there was any way to redo my character on low lvl without big expences - change Feats for example.

EllisDee37
09-17-2014, 08:18 PM
Thx for the quick reply. I have one question though. What for "Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Passage" is needed? I have guild buff named Chronoscope wich gives me +40% movement speed (it says in public aera but it seems to work everywhere). So maybe i should replace this Feat with something more usefull??
P.S. I didn`t play for long time and i cant remember if there was any way to redo my character on low lvl without big expences - change Feats for example.I take the dragonmark mostly for DDoor, but I also enjoy the expeditious retreat clickies from the moment you wash up on shore in Korthos. Note that the Chrono buff is only for public areas, not for quests.

xBunny
09-18-2014, 03:40 AM
I take the dragonmark mostly for DDoor, but I also enjoy the expeditious retreat clickies from the moment you wash up on shore in Korthos. Note that the Chrono buff is only for public areas, not for quests.
But it seems to work in quests areas too. When i am under buff Chronoscope and do my quests, i move very quick without dragon mark, and use off dragonmark doesn`t not encrease my speed. Maybe it is a bug with that buff, but it seems to work on quests areas too. Tell me plz how can i drop my feats, there was some kind of cheap reborn as far as i remember. And i have question about Stunning Blow. I do not use it very often, and it seems to stun not very often too. Is this feat usefull on higher lvl or it can be dropped too?
Sorry for offtop, you seems to be very expiriend player, tell me plz what collectables, gems and igredients should be collected.
P.S. Sorry for my dum question - i`am newbie..))

xBunny
09-18-2014, 06:32 AM
But it seems to work in quests areas too. When i am under buff Chronoscope and do my quests, i move very quick without dragon mark, and use off dragonmark doesn`t not encrease my speed. Maybe it is a bug with that buff, but it seems to work on quests areas too. Tell me plz how can i drop my feats, there was some kind of cheap reborn as far as i remember. And i have question about Stunning Blow. I do not use it very often, and it seems to stun not very often too. Is this feat usefull on higher lvl or it can be dropped too?
Sorry for offtop, you seems to be very expiriend player, tell me plz what collectables, gems and igredients should be collected.
P.S. Sorry for my dum question - i`am newbie..))

Chronoscope seems to work on quests sometimes. I noticed that on some quests it is working on some no. Or maybe it depens on buffer timer. This buff seems to be laggy. Tell me plz what for is DDoor?,when and how people use it. I read on wiki, but dont know when to use it.
P.S. i am lvl 5 now and i had win 400 Experience points in silver DailyDice. It gives me exp enough to lvl up. I wander should i use it to gain 6 lvl or it is better to use it on higher lvl?

mna
10-08-2014, 02:22 PM
Chronoscope seems to work on quests sometimes. I noticed that on some quests it is working on some no. Or maybe it depens on buffer timer. This buff seems to be laggy. Tell me plz what for is DDoor?,when and how people use it. I read on wiki, but dont know when to use it.

Dimension Door is a spell or (spell-like?) ability (the latter in case of dragonmark) that generates a temporary "door" in the air, leading to wherever you entered the current quest or whatever. So normally it leads to the quest entrance. (If you use it in wilderness areas after doing a quest, quest exit is where you entered the wilderness so...)

It's very useful in some quests and especially some challenges (and Crystal Cove).


P.S. i am lvl 5 now and i had win 400 Experience points in silver DailyDice. It gives me exp enough to lvl up. I wander should i use it to gain 6 lvl or it is better to use it on higher lvl?

Actually the dice xp is sort of funny.

Remember, normally you don't *have* to take 6 yet, you can stay level 5 and keep gaining experience until you're 1 point from level 7. At that point you can't gain more xp from quests, wilderness objectives and whatever... but can still gain xp from the dice. (Except if you run into the heroic/epic boundary I think, but... you're a ways from level 20 still.)

So unless you're running with senior characters' TR train (where someone else needs more xp than you per level, and you want to maintain same level for bravery-streak purposes) or you're at least near the heroic xp cap at 20, you don't benefit noticeably from not using the dice xp right away.

mna
10-08-2014, 02:33 PM
EDIT: It's also worth noting that the good stuff in stalwart defender after the change merits 26 AP in the SD tree. That means some hard choices will have to be made: 7 human + 31 kensei + 22 warpriest + 26 defender = 86 AP.

... I don't suppose you've looked at putting points into Vanguard, alternatively? Since this would feel like sort of a natural level split for that kind of a build too... hm, does Ameliorating Strike proc on the "secondary shield bash" too, like it does with doublestrike?

Besides it sort of looked like sword-and-board was pretty much a cleric thing until recently, and you can put spellpower augments on a bunch of named shields... some of my characters still have red-slotted lootgen shields in the bank, too (or do those still drop? Haven't seen any recently). So along that pattern...

And if the wiki is correct (http://ddowiki.com/page/Vanguard_enhancements)... well, right now it seems to be saying that Vanguard capstone requires character level 20, not fighter or paladin 20.



And, well, since Great Cleave is no longer required for Overwhelming Critical... drop Great Cleave, Stunning Blow, and Greater Weapon Specialization in favor of Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Bash to be able to switch enhancements between near-max benefit from T5 Kensei or Vanguard? Sure, it probably wouldn't be optimal in either but...
Hm... yeah, the one character I was thinking about possibly doing this with is a dwarf, otherwise would be likely to want a proficiency feat too...

EllisDee37
10-08-2014, 06:34 PM
Those are interesting ideas.

One other thing that I've been thinking of lately is that you can get Keen Edge in the divine crusader tree, and divine crusader is as good if not better than legendary dreadnought now, at least for this build, so there's no particular reason to lock yourself into tier 5 kensei anymore. Even if sticking with THF, the stalwart tree is worth considering.

For me, if I wanted to roll up a SWF with fighter levels, I'd probably go with bard instead of cleric as the second class if only to get the goodies from the swashbuckler tree.

mna
10-08-2014, 07:31 PM
For me, if I wanted to roll up a SWF with fighter levels, I'd probably go with bard instead of cleric as the second class if only to get the goodies from the swashbuckler tree.

On the other hand... bards don't get Deathward, and still don't like heavy armor and tower shields. So I was wondering if *that* kind of a character with cleric levels would be worthwhile after u23...


Then again, it seems that the wiki is just wrong, Vanguard does follow fighter/paladin levels and not general character levels. Which means, 12 Ftr required for the 65% secondary bash.



Even if nothing else, with the base build that uses Stunning Blow, you can get +3 DC for that from Vanguard tier 2. That'd be 5 prereq + 3 = 8 ap there.

unbongwah
10-09-2014, 08:55 AM
One other thing that I've been thinking of lately is that you can get Keen Edge in the divine crusader tree, and divine crusader is as good if not better than legendary dreadnought now, at least for this build, so there's no particular reason to lock yourself into tier 5 kensei anymore. Even if sticking with THF, the stalwart tree is worth considering.

For me, if I wanted to roll up a SWF with fighter levels, I'd probably go with bard instead of cleric as the second class if only to get the goodies from the swashbuckler tree.
Celestial Champion stacks w/everything, inc. Keen Edge and Swashbuckling, AFAIK. Keen Edge & Swashbuckling are both competence bonuses, so they only stack if you use, say, kukris or rapiers: +1 crit multiplier from Swashbucking, +1 crit range from Keen Edge (effectively duplicating Holy Sword). So I was thinking ftr 12 / cleric or FvS 5 / bard 3: that gets you Keen Edge, Swashbuckling, Power Surge, Skaldic Rage, Div Might, Ameliorating Strike.

Grailhawk
10-09-2014, 09:05 AM
Now that Paladins are good is there a point to this build? Wasn't the original aim to create a Divine Melee?

Don't take this the wrong way its still a fine build but with Paladins rocking now how does this build distinguish itself from Paladin?

Nodoze
10-09-2014, 09:33 AM
Now that Paladins are good is there a point to this build? Wasn't the original aim to create a Divine Melee?

Don't take this the wrong way its still a fine build but with Paladins rocking now how does this build distinguish itself from Paladin?Mana-free AoE healing team-mates is pretty distinguishing.

Grailhawk
10-09-2014, 10:04 AM
Mana-free AoE healing team-mates is pretty distinguishing.

A 5Cleric 3Monk X does much better at that fist of light, healing KI, and Aura three things this build doesn't have and there's not much stopping a Paladin from going 15/4/1 to pick up Ameliorating Strike.

Nodoze
10-09-2014, 11:33 AM
A 5Cleric 3Monk X does much better at that fist of light, healing KI, and Aura three things this build doesn't have and there's not much stopping a Paladin from going 15/4/1 to pick up Ameliorating Strike.Curious what would be your level 1 splash in the 15/4/1 build (I assume Fighter but figured better to ask/confirm)?

I ask as I have been thinking about doing a TWF Paladin with Ameliorating Strike...

Regarding the above build, yes it was originally a better Paladin than Paladin build but just because Paladins are now buffed doesn't mean that it isn't viable nor have a place anymore. I think more variation and options are good.

Edit: I am all for multiple group healing options but, unless I am missing something, compared to Ameliorating Strike, fist of light are weak/limted and a level 5 Radiant Aura would be weak and very AP intensive for the benefit...

Grailhawk
10-09-2014, 11:43 AM
Curious what would be your level 1 splash in the 15/4/1 build?
No clue I guess fighter but its not something I've speced out.


Regarding the above build, yes it was originally a better Paladin than Paladin build but just because Paladins are now buffed doesn't mean that it isn't viable nor have a place anymore. I think more variation and options are good.

I agree its a fine build and if you are looking for a Fighter PL but really want to play a Paladin its the go to build, but now that Paladins are good this build has lost a lot of its luster. Used to be if some new player was looking to play a Paladin the best advice you could give him was to scrap that plan and come play this build that's not the case now. Or have I missed something about this build?

EllisDee37
10-09-2014, 05:34 PM
Celestial Champion stacks w/everything, inc. Keen Edge and Swashbuckling, AFAIK. Keen Edge & Swashbuckling are both competence bonuses, so they only stack if you use, say, kukris or rapiers: +1 crit multiplier from Swashbucking, +1 crit range from Keen Edge (effectively duplicating Holy Sword). So I was thinking ftr 12 / cleric or FvS 5 / bard 3: that gets you Keen Edge, Swashbuckling, Power Surge, Skaldic Rage, Div Might, Ameliorating Strike.My initial testing showed that Celestial Champion doesn't stack with Holy Sword, and Holy Sword is a competence bonus like all other crit modifiers. I only tested this using the inventory weapon detail screen, though, as opposed to actually swinging at mobs. Are you positive that it isn't a competence bonus?

EllisDee37
10-09-2014, 05:39 PM
Now that Paladins are good is there a point to this build? Wasn't the original aim to create a Divine Melee?

Don't take this the wrong way its still a fine build but with Paladins rocking now how does this build distinguish itself from Paladin?No offense taken, and it's a valid point. I'll certainly need to change the writeup in the OP.

For me, I like having this build mainly for flavor reasons, particularly in terms of epic destinies. I'd say the big picture differences between this and a paladin are:

- Tactics (mainly stunning blow, but also trip)
- Legendary Dreadnought, as opposed to paladins which will likely be Divine Crusader
- Heavier reliance on action boosts

That's pretty much it, but that's enough of a flavor difference for me to justify two character slots. Another reason you already touched on, which is to give a fighter past life, is a minor consideration at best.

unbongwah
10-10-2014, 09:26 AM
My initial testing showed that Celestial Champion doesn't stack with Holy Sword, and Holy Sword is a competence bonus like all other crit modifiers. I only tested this using the inventory weapon detail screen, though, as opposed to actually swinging at mobs. Are you positive that it isn't a competence bonus?
Am I absolutely positive? No: for one thing, I don't have any epic Kensei I can use to test KE+CC right now. But I've read several posts from folks who say they do stack, as does SB+CC.

Grailhawk
10-10-2014, 09:43 AM
No offense taken, and it's a valid point. I'll certainly need to change the writeup in the OP.

For me, I like having this build mainly for flavor reasons, particularly in terms of epic destinies. I'd say the big picture differences between this and a paladin are:

- Tactics (mainly stunning blow, but also trip)
- Legendary Dreadnought, as opposed to paladins which will likely be Divine Crusader
- Heavier reliance on action boosts

That's pretty much it, but that's enough of a flavor difference for me to justify two character slots. Another reason you already touched on, which is to give a fighter past life, is a minor consideration at best.

So its taking the Fighter slot in your stable? It is better at keeping it self alive then a 20 Fighter and the spells do offer an interesting alternative to the 12/6/2 splits.

EllisDee37
10-14-2014, 01:57 AM
My current (third) life on this build is level 6 right now; I'm going to get to 9 to try out ameliorating strike at low levels to see how worthwhile it is before making any enhancement changes.After being delayed by eTRing my paladin and redoing the tempest trapmonkey build, I finally got back to level 9 on this guy and I'm absolutely loving it to death. The PRR/MRR changes really help take the edge off the low saves, and getting ameliorating strike by level 9 is pure win.

I've now redone the build, which involved nothing but a few minor changes to enhancements. So it should be an easy swap if you're in the middle of leveling. The specific enhancement changes are as follows:

Drop improved recovery II and one of the extra dragonmarks from human (save 3 AP)
Drop third inflame energy absorption and add tier 4 strength from warpriest (spend 1 AP)
Drop overbalance and add strong defense III (+6 str!) from stalwart (spend 2 AP)

I'm pleased with how little needed to change from the original version of the build. I take this as a sign of a stable build. The order, however, is radically changed, moving ameliorating strike up from level 17 to 9. That's a huge improvement.

I also finally added the "General Use" and "Gear" posts at the top of the thread, with the same format as the tempest trapmonkey thread. Plus, taking Grailhawk's valid point to heart I rewrote the introductory narrative in the OP. Not that the old narrative needs to be preserved for any reason, but just for my personal edification I'm copying it here in case I want to refer back to it.


This THF frontline melee build happens to be new player friendly -- despite that not being one of the design goals -- with no tomes or pay classes/races required.

The genesis of the build was sparked by a discussion on paladins, where it was said that a 14/6 fighter/fvs would make a better paladin than an actual paladin due to having better dps and heals. I took the idea and ran with it, eventually settling on 12/8 fighter/cleric to get deathward, fom and better heals. I originally rolled up the character before the enhancement pass and it was super fun to play. Now with the introduction of the warpriest tree I think it's ready to post. Compared to a paladin build, this will have better dps, viable tactics in the form of stunning blow, but weaker heals and much lower saves.

No tomes are required or listed. If you happen to have a +2 int tome put the extra skill points into Balance or Jump. 28pt versions will need to grab a +1 strength tome at level 23 in order to qualify for Overwhelming Critical, but any epic character can easily afford to buy a +1 tome off the ah.

Alignment doesn't matter. In general True Neutral is best because it takes the least amount of damage from mobs. However, you might consider Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Good if you want to freely wield True Chaos and/or Pure Good weapons without a umd check.

Human is preferred for the extra skill points and DDoor clickie. If you want to go with a different race, drop the dragonmark and sacrifice the heal skill. Ideally use a +2 int tome by level 7 to minimize the shortfall, but it should work even without an int tome. Non-humans get 12 AP to play with in either their racial tree or the various class trees.

The level 21 feat is player's choice; take whatever feat you like there. I recommend either Improved Sunder, Bulwark of Defense, Quicken or Toughness, but none of them are pivotal to the build so any feat you like is fine. Heck, even Skill Focus: UMD might be worth considering. Take Overwhelming Critical @ 21 if you qualify and push the player's choice feat back to 24.

Oh, that reminds me, I changed the "player's choice" feat to Great Strength, and moved it to 24 now that Overwhelming Critical is easily qualified for at 21. I also added a note about precision to the OP. Precision is in all likelihood out of reach for a new player on this build, but I felt it was worth pointing out how to fit it in if you want it.

I'm really enjoying this build, much more than I expected after running my paladin for so long. It's just crazy fun. Next up on my to-do list is to update the evasion paladin thread.

Nodoze
10-15-2014, 02:14 PM
...I finally got back to level 9 on this guy and I'm absolutely loving it to death. The PRR/MRR changes really help take the edge off the low saves, and getting ameliorating strike by level 9 is pure win.

...

I'm really enjoying this build, much more than I expected after running my paladin for so long. It's just crazy fun. Next up on my to-do list is to update the evasion paladin thread.Thanks for the update. If you level it back up into the epics please post back your experiences post U23 with the build.

mna
11-30-2014, 03:24 PM
Celestial Champion stacks w/everything, inc. Keen Edge and Swashbuckling, AFAIK. Keen Edge & Swashbuckling are both competence bonuses, so they only stack if you use, say, kukris or rapiers: +1 crit multiplier from Swashbucking, +1 crit range from Keen Edge (effectively duplicating Holy Sword). So I was thinking ftr 12 / cleric or FvS 5 / bard 3: that gets you Keen Edge, Swashbuckling, Power Surge, Skaldic Rage, Div Might, Ameliorating Strike.

Hey, that'd be an interesting one actually... how'd you say about the level ordering and feats? (Of course then there's the stat distribution and... hm, what do you actually need to make this viable? I wonder if it'd work as a 28-pointer...)



Can't do FvS quite yet myself, but now I at least have enough content open to be able to get that 2500 favor. I'm not even past 1750 on all that many...

EllisDee37
12-13-2014, 04:28 PM
Thanks for the update. If you level it back up into the epics please post back your experiences post U23 with the build.I got back up to epics this week, and so far the U23 changes are a significant boost to this build's power and survivability.

As a heavy armor wearer in stance I get lots of PRR/MRR, plus an extra +6 strength from stance that makes up for the +5 strength from primal scream back when I didn't use stance.

The melee power and blitz changes make this guy way more fun to play. Before I would nervously charge up blitz with the first 10 mobs in a quest and then frantically run to maintain it the whole way through. This was acceptable on quests I know well, but was pretty unfun for exploring new quests or running optionals. Now I'm not bothering to use blitz until boss fights. When I get to higher level content (currently running the 24s) I might try for blitz on the trash, but I won't be stressing out about the old feeling of losing blitz turning me into a declawed kitten.

I'm pretty sure a pure paladin is better in every way, but I don't actually care about having the best build. For this build, U23 was a significant upgrade. I'm even considering trying out some low level EE quests for the first time, though right now I'm still getting a feel for how champions shake. So far they're amounting to nothing more than speed bumps on EH, at least through the first MotU pack, druid's deep and high road.

MRR is a huge boon for this guy, shoring up his one major weakness.

eachna_gislin
03-02-2015, 09:57 PM
I got back up to epics this week, and so far the U23 changes are a significant boost to this build's power and survivability.


It's a little funny, I'm finding my character less powerful since the changes to paladins. Since "everyone" is grinding out paladin lives, or still trying out all the changes, I find I kill a lot less than I used to. Technically she's the same power level but others have gotten more powerful around her.

My first life was over a year ago, and this toon was consistently one of the top killers in PUGs. Her second, and now third life, she lags a little behind bards and paladins. She's still very fun to play, and is only a little more fragile than a paladin (I notice the lack of Sealed Soul).

For her third life I decided to try the build as a TWF Khopesh user (she has Rad II's in the bank). TWF eats a couple extra feats, and I took elf (for the Displacement dragonmark), which eats one more. Her greensteel has come out and I think the slower build in power is about to pay off. She has a bit of Dex, perma-Blur (gear), Ghostly, and occasional Displacement.

Running through three of these lives has been a long haul. I TR _very_ irregularly. But it's given me a way to run a character meant to be a Paladin through three Fighter lives for the Tactics boost, and make use of (nearly) every item in her cache.

Thank you Ellis, for posting this build (and all your builds). I've learned a great deal about the fundamentals of character building by going through these posts.

EllisDee37
03-03-2015, 01:03 AM
Sounds fun; I like the concept of elf for displacement + TWF greensteel. At least the fighter levels give you lots of feats, heh. And thanks much for the kind works, I appreciate it.

As for the nerf-by-proxy, now you can empathize with Cetus when he switched from a 12/6/2 fighter/monk/pally to a pure paladin.

eachna_gislin
03-07-2015, 02:49 AM
Sounds fun; I like the concept of elf for displacement + TWF greensteel. At least the fighter levels give you lots of feats, heh. And thanks much for the kind works, I appreciate it.

As for the nerf-by-proxy, now you can empathize with Cetus when he switched from a 12/6/2 fighter/monk/pally to a pure paladin.

At level 18, I'm rolling in displacements :D. 4 from DM. 2 from Smoke belt. 5 from Ellocator's Habilliment. The latter seemed to be a good fit with this build. I get my Dex bonus and extra jump, and Resistance.

DPS is much better now that I have all TWF feats, including Greater. It's not where it could be, but as a trial run after playing a two-handed fighter for three lives I'm happy with it.

Ninaran
03-15-2015, 06:25 PM
Hey everyone, took quite a looong break from DDO and returning now, I remember using this guide to create a character and now I'm just wondering if any big updates happened that made this build unplayable? Or is it still good to go?

EllisDee37
03-15-2015, 06:32 PM
Hey everyone, took quite a looong break from DDO and returning now, I remember using this guide to create a character and now I'm just wondering if any big updates happened that made this build unplayable? Or is it still good to go?There have been big changes but I've kept this build updated for them.

Those changes made pure paladin a better option, but this build is current and good to go.

Ninaran
03-16-2015, 01:04 PM
There have been big changes but I've kept this build updated for them.

Those changes made pure paladin a better option, but this build is current and good to go.

Awesome, thank you for that. :)

IIVIIotha
03-31-2015, 12:50 PM
http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah182/Goldie_Tow/Capture%20drsquoeacutecran%202015-03-31%20agrave%2003.20.24_zpsxobikpom.png (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/Goldie_Tow/media/Capture%20drsquoeacutecran%202015-03-31%20agrave%2003.20.24_zpsxobikpom.png.html)

I tried your build its pretty solid ! i like it you right it is not build for high solo ee content but i always try and fail most of the time haha but hey! im having fun lol i modified a little the enhancements and some feat as well like i din't take ptwf or blinding speed ohh and i went helf instead! i took the pally dilly for some saves but din t even bother on spending ap on the helf tree lol btw its not really max buffed like im missing some +11 items and all the + 5, 6 tomes what eva i really like it !

Stunning blow almost never fail, chilling whit 3 cleaves and momentung swing, healing myself, always haste and damage boosted man i love it !

EllisDee37
03-31-2015, 02:03 PM
Very cool. I always forget that helf can take the human tree cores.

One tip that isn't part of the build in the OP (but probably should be) is that I think Action Surge considers Power Surge an action boost, meaning for 3 AP you can get +3 strength for 11+ minutes per shrine.

IIVIIotha
03-31-2015, 10:50 PM
Very cool. I always forget that helf can take the human tree cores.

One tip that isn't part of the build in the OP (but probably should be) is that I think Action Surge considers Power Surge an action boost, meaning for 3 AP you can get +3 strength for 11+ minutes per shrine.


Yes!! Also u get a bunch of useful spells like fom, cure crit, !! & the chance to use some good cleric scrolls like heal, raise dead etc... Im working on ur necro cleric build now. First time playing a caster tho... But, hey! Lets see what happen lol

EllisDee37
04-08-2015, 03:31 PM
Changing over to the new output format, there's only one very minor change to the human tree:

- Add Action Surge: Strength III (spend 3 AP)
- Drop Human Adaptability: Strength (save 2 AP)
- Scale back Orien Dragonmark Focus from II to I (save 1 AP)

The 3 AP is spent at the same time in the build, so the disruption if you're in the middle of leveling will be minimal.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Kensei Warpriest
Level 28 Human
(12 Fighter / 8 Cleric / 8 Epic)

Abilities 28pt 32pt 34pt 36pt
Strength 16 18 18 18
Dexterity 8 8 8 8
Constitution 14 14 14 16
Intelligence 12 12 12 12
Wisdom 10 8 10 8
Charisma 14 14 14 14

Skills Ranks
Concentration 23
Heal 22
UMD 11
Jump 4
Balance 3
Tumble 1

Feats
1 : Power Attack
1H: Least Dragonmark of Passage
1F: Cleave
2F: Stunning Blow
3 : Weapon Focus: Slashing
3C: Follower of the Sovereign Host
6 : Great Cleave
6F: Weapon Specialization: Slashing
9 : Empower Healing Spell
10F: Improved Crit: Slashing
12 : Extend
13C: Unyielding Sovereignty
14F: Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
15 : THF
17F: ITHF
18 : GTHF
19F: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
21E: Overwhelming Critical
24E: Great Strength
26D: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting or Tactician
27E: Blinding Speed
28D: Perfect Two Handed Fighting

Legendary Dreadnought
Legendary Tactics III
Extra Action Boost III
Momentum Swing III
Improved Power Attack
Lay Waste
Critical Damage III
Anvil of Thunder
Devastating Critical
Headman's Chop
Master's Blitz
Twist 1: Sense Weakness or Grim Precision
Twist 2: Rejuvenation Cocoon
Twist 3: Brace For Impact


Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Passage
Enhancement: Human Core: Human Versatility: Damage Boost
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus I
Enhancement: Human1: Improved Recovery


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Kensei Focus
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei1: Haste Boost III


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Protection from Evil
Enhancement: Human1: Orien Dragonmark Focus II
Enhancement: Warpriest Core: Smite Foe
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Toughness I
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Toughness II


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human2: Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
Enhancement: Kensei1: Kensei Weapon Specialization


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Toughness III
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Divine Might I
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Divine Might II
Enhancement: Warpriest1: Divine Might III


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Smite Weakness I
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Wall of Steel I
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Wall of Steel II


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (2): Eagle's Splendor
Enhancement: Warpriest Core: Resilience of Battle
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Strength
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Wall of Steel III


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Inflame I
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Inflame II
Enhancement: Warpriest2: Inflame III
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Inflame: Energy Absorption I


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (2): Aid
Enhancement: Warpriest3: Inflame: Energy Absorption II
Enhancement: Warpriest4: Ameliorating Strike
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Spiritual Bond


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei2: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Enhancement: Kensei2: Tactics I


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Protection from Energy
Spell (3): Prayer
Enhancement: Kensei2: Tactics II
Enhancement: Kensei2: Tactics III


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Kensei1: Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Kensei1: Extra Action Boost II


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Feat: (Deity) Unyielding Sovereignty
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Enhancement: Kensei3: Strength
Enhancement: Kensei4: Strength


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei3: Kensei Weapon Specialization
Enhancement: Kensei4: Kensei Weapon Specialization


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Death Ward
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Strike With No Thought
Enhancement: Kensei1: Extra Action Boost III
Enhancement: Kensei5: Keen Edge


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Core: Toughness
Enhancement: Stalwart1: Stalwart Defensive Mastery I
Enhancement: Stalwart1: Durable Defense I


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Stalwart1: Durable Defense II
Enhancement: Stalwart Core: Stalwart Defense
Enhancement: Stalwart1: Durable Defense III
Enhancement: Stalwart2: Resilient Defense I


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Stalwart2: Resilient Defense II
Enhancement: Stalwart2: Resilient Defense III
Enhancement: Stalwart3: Strong Defense I
Enhancement: Stalwart3: Strong Defense II


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Core: Power Surge
Enhancement: Stalwart3: Strong Defense III
Enhancement: Stalwart3: Strength


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Spell (3): Aid, Mass
Spell (4): Recitation
Enhancement: Warpriest4: Strength
Enhancement: Human Core: Human Adaptability: Strength


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Strength


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting or Tactician


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


<End of Build>

IIVIIotha
04-08-2015, 11:15 PM
So i was thinking last night about another splash lvl 1 sum thing & then i had this crazy idea looking at some caster builds... What about lvl 1 sorc so u get another cleave atk (Ek) for 1 ap? so u get 3 cleaves on heroics and 4 on epics idk if they share timer but that would be awesome.

EllisDee37
04-08-2015, 11:24 PM
Pretty sure they don't share timers, so that should work fine. There's also another cleave in Divine Crusader.

If going for the EK cleave, I might go wizard instead of sorc. Same cleave, but you get a feat out of it. Since the core build takes extend, the wizard bonus feat can be used for that and you get a legitimate extra feat out of the deal.

IIVIIotha
04-09-2015, 01:16 PM
Pretty sure they don't share timers, so that should work fine. There's also another cleave in Divine Crusader.

If going for the EK cleave, I might go wizard instead of sorc. Same cleave, but you get a feat out of it. Since the core build takes extend, the wizard bonus feat can be used for that and you get a legitimate extra feat out of the deal.

Awesome! 5 cleaves!! That gives me some crazy idea like a barbarian/wiz or sorc build = 7 cleaves !

IIVIIotha
04-09-2015, 01:23 PM
BaRB/CLERIC/wiz or sorc haha i like to do weird stuff and then fail on it...

prometheus77
09-01-2015, 07:06 PM
What about taking one level of paladin for improved saves? I don't know. If you HAD to take a different single level, what would you take.

unbongwah
09-01-2015, 07:55 PM
What about taking one level of paladin for improved saves? I don't know.
Div Grace req's pal 2; ftr 12 / cleric 6 / pal 2 is doable, but it means giving up lvl 4 cleric spells (CCW, DW).

If you HAD to take a different single level, what would you take.
I'd splash either wiz for extra feat and EK Cleave or barb for +10% run speed and +3 Power Atk enh. You could also bump up Rage uses, though that blocks spellcasting, so be sure to use after buffing.

mezzorco
09-02-2015, 03:33 AM
Div Grace req's pal 2; ftr 12 / cleric 6 / pal 2 is doable, but it means giving up lvl 4 cleric spells (CCW, DW).

I'd splash either wiz for extra feat and EK Cleave or barb for +10% run speed and +3 Power Atk enh. You could also bump up Rage uses, though that blocks spellcasting, so be sure to use after buffing.

A single paladin level is worse than two, but still has its perks.

Aura of good provides +1 to saves, and a single AP in KotC gives you another +2 saves vs evil and 1d4 light damage on every hit and on every glancing blow (scaling with melee power).

I would say it can be a desirable tradeoff.

prometheus77
09-02-2015, 07:45 AM
What about a single level in bard for swashbucklerley stuff? Or do the benefits not stack?

Tom116
09-02-2015, 07:59 AM
What about a single level in bard for swashbucklerley stuff? Or do the benefits not stack?

Need at least 3 bard for swashbuckling (is the second core for the stance), idealy 5 to get the T5 for Exploit Weaknesses (not to mention CdG and Thread the Needle). Also Swashbuckling requires light/no armor and a light weapon, for a 12 fighter/8 cleric split I would want heavy armor and the best weapon out there as neither of them are one of the classes that have been updated to be stronger yet. Fighter IS after ranger though, which is due by the end of september according to Cordovan :)

That being said, could do something like 8 Bard/8 Cleric/4 Fighter (assuming you want to keep 8 cleric at 8, there is wiggle room otherwise), take T5 from Swash instead. You'd get less feats but still enough, defensive stance + bucklers. Might be able to et some fun out of that :)

unbongwah
09-02-2015, 08:23 AM
Aura of good provides +1 to saves, and a single AP in KotC gives you another +2 saves vs evil and 1d4 light damage on every hit and on every glancing blow (scaling with melee power).
If you care about your saves, you're going to want more than the +1/+3 from AoG, IMHO; and if you want to boost your DPS, I think the +3/6 from Imp PA enhs in barb (which are crittable) is worth more than d4 light dmg (which are not). Plus I think barb Fast Movement stacks with Swift Defense, so that's +20% base runspeed. Also you can pick up Die Hard + Die Harder from FB which stacks with don't count me out to extend your unconscious range by 35 HPs. In terms of single-lvl splashes, barb still gives a lot.

What about a single level in bard for swashbucklerley stuff? Or do the benefits not stack?
As stated, Swashbuckling stance req's at least 3 bard lvls. You would get the bonuses from Confidence and T1 enhs, though, since they don't depend on Swashbuckling. You could also take Skaldic Rage from WC, although it doesn't work with defensive stance, so it would actually be a net loss of 2 STR (+4 STR from Skaldic vs +6 STR from Strong Defense).

And if you did take at least 3 bard lvls for Swashbuckling, Keen Edge wouldn't stack w/it except for kukris & rapiers. Once you start going down the Swashbuckler route, though, you're talking about a completely different build from this.

Fighter IS after ranger though, which is due by the end of september according to Cordovan :)
Let's not get carried away: all Cordo has said (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/464656-Ranger-oh-Ranger-where-art-thou-class-pass?p=5676574&viewfull=1#post5676574) is that (A) ranger is planned to be the next class overhauled and (B) it MIGHT be in the next Update, but that's not a guarantee.

prometheus77
09-07-2015, 01:22 AM
Hit level nine with this build last night. So far been fun, though I couldnt find anyone to run tear of dakan for the sword. I am going to use carnifex till 10th, but i already have a whirlwind. Got my cloak of invis, bracers of wind, and boots and ring of the mire today. I still have to start farming andamantite for the armor. Which augments do you reccomend? I understand the red for devotion to improve healing on aemoraling strike. But what about for the cloak or armor. I slotted heavy fort on the cloak because it was cheap, and then I can avoid farming the neck. Is there something better you reccomend for my green and eventually blue slot on my armor?

Also aemoraling strike feels a bit underwhelming. It currently heals for 15 to 18, and its on a long cooldown. When does it come into its own? Is it mostly for boss beats, stand there and hit it for free healing whenever it pops up when your fighting things like harry in the vale or what? I had never used the cleave attacks before on a meelee toon, now I dont think I could run one again without them!

prometheus77
09-07-2015, 01:24 AM
forgot to ask, do the augments stack? is there ever a reason to have more than one +devotion stone? I see the armor has a colorless slot, can I add another devotion stone for even more heals?

EllisDee37
09-07-2015, 07:53 AM
Ameliorating strike is weak right now because you have carnifex. Next level when you start using whirlwind with a +54 devotion augment it will start to get better. (It would be acceptable now with a Sword of the Thirty w/+54 devotion augment.)

Augments do not stack with each other, so only ever slot one augment of any given type.

Heavy Fort in the cloak is an excellent choice; that's a rock solid cloak slot. That's not the way my guy rolls, though, because I quite like the nightforged heavy plate. So what I do is wear a resistance cloak through 11, and then start wearing cloak of invisibility @ 12 with a +4 resistance augment in the green. Then I upgrade that to +5 @ 16. Both are "cheap" because they can be bought for gianthold relics.

For the armor slots, my guy slots heavy fort and master's gift. This keeps it ML8, just like if there were no augments.

A solid alternative would be to go with resistance and vitality in the armor and keep heavy fort on the cloak. This delays slotting the armor due to vitality being ML11, but if you do a similar "wait until 12" it works pretty well.


As for Sword of the Thirty, it drops in the very first rare chest if you take a left at the first intersection. That's definitely a solo-farmable chest; all you have to do is deal with the lighning traps and oozes. I believe you can jump over the lightning traps, but even if not your PRR/MRR should at least keep you alive.


One thing I notice after running my kensei warpriest is that I start to get annoyed with my other alts for having to spend actual mana to top off my HP. I get very accustomed to the totally free healing of amel. strike very quickly, and miss it terribly when it's gone.

prometheus77
09-07-2015, 11:07 AM
Thanks for the reply. Currently for my helm I am running the toee resist helmet with the 4 ion stones. I was going to swap over to Minos legens at 11 but might not need to now. Is there a death block neck or item I should farm. Even with ship buffs the beholders on VoN 3 level drain me than insta kill me. There is no way I could solo that on elite. Any tips on how I should level him at 9. I was going to first farm the ore for the armor, then probably hit the desert and do those quests for xp till 10 and hit gianthold.

EllisDee37
09-07-2015, 11:34 AM
For a deathblock/beholder neck swap, the best first-life solution is the Silver Flame Talisman (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Silver_Flame_Talisman). It has permanent deathblock, and will absorb a few of the negative level attacks. (Also note: Beholders are vulnerable to stunning blow, so run up and stun them immediately to reduce the amount of attacks they get on you.) Even though the talisman says it's ML11, creating it starts you with lower-ML versions of it that are still good.

The Silver Flame Talisman requires access to the first three necro packs. To make it, you first talk to the silver flame collector dude in lower necropolis to get a silver flame nugget. Place that nugget in the altar at the end of each of the final quests in necro1-3. (Bloody Crypt, Shadow Crypt, Cursed Crypt.)

If you've already run the first two necro packs to completion, see this thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/440371) for how to rerun the last quest with minimal repeats. That's a guide for repeating Shadow Crypt, and repeating Bloody Crypt works the same way. You could also put up an LFM just looking for an opener to the end quests; you can redbox in and use the altars no problem. Also note that you're just using altars, so difficulty doesn't matter. Run it on normal or even casual if you like.

If you don't own the necro packs, see if you can find a Scarab of Spell Absorption on the auction house. They absorb 50 spell-levels worth of attacks and then crumble to dust. This includes beholder negative levels.

Once you get to epics, farm dreaming dark for a Pale Lavendar Ioun Stone (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Pale_Lavender_Ioun_Stone), then don't use it until you upgrade it (http://ddowiki.com/page/Dreamforge) to the full version (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Pale_Lavender_Ioun_Stone_%28unsuppressed%29). This is a 50 spell absorption item just like the scarab, but it's a permanent thing that recharges when you rest. (15/rest.) The crucial bit of spell absorption is that it also absorbs the anti-magic cone, which means beholders won't strip you of your buffs. So your own self-cast deathward is all the deathblock you need while your absorption holds up. (So still keep the silver flame talisman on hand in case you run out of absorption charges.)

In terms of farming up a PLIS, every third completion of Dreaming Dark guarantees you a random ioun stone in the quest end reward list. Difficulty doesn't matter, so go ahead and blast through it on casual until you pull one.

In a pinch, for a quickie solution for a deathblock swap item, maybe try the Sacred Helm (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sacred_Helm) from the Red Fens final quest Into the Deep.

EllisDee37
05-10-2016, 04:39 PM
I've updated the build for U31, mainly because I include this build as the sample build file in Character Builder Lite so I wanted it updated before I release the new data files. (The program isn't changing, but I re-publish the program with updated data whenever the data files change.)

There weren't a ton of changes:

Enhancements largely stay the same, both with what's taken and the leveling order. Mainly, drop two strength (one each from Warpriest and Stalwart Defender) and spend those 4 AP on more Kensei stuff. Mainly tier 5s. I dropped the Harper variant altogether, as it didn't add a ton. If you don't want DDoor, you're better off spending those extra few AP on more Kensei stuff.

I also changed the last destiny feat, replacing Embodiment of Law / Harbinger of Chaos (alternates) with Deific Warding.

IIVIIotha
09-03-2016, 01:43 PM
I've updated the build for U31, mainly because I include this build as the sample build file in Character Builder Lite so I wanted it updated before I release the new data files. (The program isn't changing, but I re-publish the program with updated data whenever the data files change.)

There weren't a ton of changes:

Enhancements largely stay the same, both with what's taken and the leveling order. Mainly, drop two strength (one each from Warpriest and Stalwart Defender) and spend those 4 AP on more Kensei stuff. Mainly tier 5s. I dropped the Harper variant altogether, as it didn't add a ton. If you don't want DDoor, you're better off spending those extra few AP on more Kensei stuff.

I also changed the last destiny feat, replacing Embodiment of Law / Harbinger of Chaos (alternates) with Deific Warding.

mann whit power surge giving u 8 in all stats this build its kicking ass's ! use power surge first then divine might !

Nico42
10-22-2016, 07:14 AM
Changing over to the new output format, there's only one very minor change to the human tree:
- Add Action Surge: Strength III (spend 3 AP)
- Drop Human Adaptability: Strength (save 2 AP)
- Scale back Orien Dragonmark Focus from II to I (save 1 AP)
The 3 AP is spent at the same time in the build, so the disruption if you're in the middle of leveling will be minimal.


Thanks Ellis ... might give the build a spin as I'm about to do a TR2+ ... I've a set of prebuilt GS D-Axes so am thinking of running as a Dwarf with TWF. Might also try the 12/7/1 option I've some nice repeaters so was thinking 1 level of Arti? I was also thinking 1 level of warlock for Eldridge blast ... but that would only be useful at low levels.

If you have +6 supreme tomes running is their harm in dialing back the Cha to add more Wis or another stat?

EllisDee37
10-23-2016, 05:12 AM
If you have +6 supreme tomes running is their harm in dialing back the Cha to add more Wis or another stat?The only stat I could see increasing at the expense of charisma would be constitution, and I probably wouldn't even do that.

Charisma is a key stat because that's where your strength comes from thanks to divine might. (Add charisma modifier to strength.) And as was pointed out upthread, the new power surge effect adds +8 charisma, so definitely hit power surge before divine might.

Nico42
10-23-2016, 05:57 AM
The only stat I could see increasing at the expense of charisma would be constitution, and I probably wouldn't even do that.

I see what you mean about Cha (I missed that in my read thru) ... only trouble is if I want to go TWF then the TWF feats require Dex 15 Assuming +'s from Tomes at L3 & L7 I need build Dex at 13. Bottom line I guess is either I compromise the build or go THF as per your OP. Again many thanks

PS: will probably take Sor-1 for the extra 180-SP, was thinking Arti-1 for Repeater whilst closing in for the fight (but there are better options)

If I can work in the power I'll also take Ruin + Greater ruin during Epic. My arti toons are doing 3K with Ruin and a warlock in the guild is doing mammoth amounts with Greater ruin

EllisDee37
10-23-2016, 07:43 AM
I see what you mean about Cha (I missed that in my read thru) ... only trouble is if I want to go TWF then the TWF feats require Dex 15 Assuming +'s from Tomes at L3 & L7 I need build Dex at 13. Bottom line I guess is either I compromise the build or go THF as per your OP. Again many thanksOh, right, duh, I wasn't thinking about dex for the TWF line.

I'd probably drop 2 strength and put those 6 build points into dex, so 16 str 14 dex instead of 18 str 8 dex. Dwarf will already be hurting for cha, starting at 12 instead of 14 due to racial penalties, and taking away 2 str is worth 6 build points compared to taking away 6 cha to get those same 6 points.


PS: will probably take Sor-1 for the extra 180-SP, was thinking Arti-1 for Repeater whilst closing in for the fight (but there are better options)60, not 180. Your first cleric level gives you the 80 from magical training; you don't get it again with sorc. And the 8th cleric level grants 40 sp compared to sorc 1's 100.

You would, however, get an extra 5% spell points from items, so figure a few extra from that.

Nico42
10-23-2016, 08:18 AM
Dwarf will already be hurting for cha, starting at 12 instead of 14 due to racial penalties, and taking away 2 str is worth 6 build points compared to taking away 6 cha to get those same 6 points.

Good point re strength sacrifice.

Yeh Debating with myself the whole Dwarf thing ... If I went human I'd get the Dragon mark and DD which is noice ... on the other hand the Tactical enhancement under dwarf enhancement tree is cheaper ... as well as having some nice Con gains. I can always take "Weapon Group Specialization:Axes" if I go human and want to use the D-axes


60, not 180. Your first cleric level gives you the 80 from magical training;
Bugger ! (that's Aussie for Doh!)

Again many thanks as your post has really helped me to plan this toon out a bit. One of my guild members said picture what you want and go from there ... even if it's not 100% ... you'll enjoy it more. At the moment My head says THF and the OP would be better, but the heart says go-go Gimli (LoTR)

EllisDee37
10-23-2016, 11:21 AM
If I went human I'd get the Dragon mark and DD which is noiceI love DD to death, but in terms of starting a brand new TR life I think my favorite aspect was always the ability to natively cast Expeditious Retreat. Once I get all my quivers upgraded that will be moot, but until then...

I think you should go dwarf. You'll enjoy it more.

EllisDee37
11-15-2016, 08:46 PM
I've been trying out the new kensei clickie attacks the last couple days to see which ones I want to use. First I tried them out by soloing Devil's Details on EE, which was slow going. This guy is too squishy for that, though his dps is plenty high enough. I also tried them shortmanning heroic shroud on elite.


Opportunity Attack (Tier 4, 2 AP)
Melee Attack: Deals 3[W] damage, consumes 1 charge. On Damage: You gain 20 Melee Power for 6 seconds. There is a 10% chance (per melee attack) to regain an expended charge of this enhancement.

This is a fantastic clickie attack for raids. I was able to keep it going nonstop on both portals and harry. (It doesn't require your focus weapon.) For questing, though, it's much less useful. Because everything dies in so few hits, it never really gets a chance to recharge when you want it. I tried to use it like my stick build uses Quick Strikes, but frequently had 0 charges in the quest. So it would fluctuate between my go-to clickie I'd hit constantly to a dead clickie that did nothing but take up valuable hotbar real estate.

It's tough to justify not taking this, but to be honest I'm on the fence.


A Good Death (Tier 5, 1 AP)
Perform a melee attack with +1 Critical Multiplier. On Damage: If the target is below 30% health, deal 500 damage that scales with 400% Melee Power.

Everything in Devil's Details was dying in like 4 swings, so this enhancement seems kind of useless for regular questing. It should be nice for raids, but when I tried it on the portals in shroud part 1, it said I wasn't using the right weapon. (My focus is greataxes, my portal beater is a maul.) So that's a bummer. I then tried it again on Harry in parts 4 & 5, since he had enough hit points that he'd be at <30% for a noticeable amount of time. To be honest, I was greatly underwhelmed. I mean, sure, the 2-4k proc damage is nice (I have just over 100 melee power before blitz) but that's essentially just an extra crit. The long 15-second cooldown meant I could only use it once before harry died in both parts.

My conclusion is that this enhancement sounds great on paper, but ends up being an afterthought in practice.


Deadly Strike (Tier 5, 1 AP)
Focus Melee Attack: Attack to perform a melee attack that is automatically considered a critical thread. On Vorpal: 500 damage which scales with Melee Power.

The biggest question for Deadly Strike is what kind of weapon do you use? If you go with many small crits, like a falchion, it's meh. For me, using a greataxe, this enhancement is pretty solid. It has an extremely long cooldown for a clickie attack: 20 seconds! But, it's an autocrit, which means it's essentially the equivalent of A Good Death but it also works on all mobs regardless of health. (Like A Good Death, this only works for focus weapons.) The long cooldown makes it meh for raid bosses, since you click it once and then what feels like an hour later you click it again. However, for normal questing it's a great opener as you get to each pack of mobs.

I'm grading this a winner if you use greataxes, which I do. (Now I just need to farm up an Epic Riftmaker to replace my eAntique Greataxe.)


My biggest issue is that I really only have room for one single clickie attack. Technically, my setup has room for 8 clickie attacks in regular melee, which is currently taken up by:

1) Cleave
2) Great Cleave
3) Momentum Swing
4) Lay Waste
5) Ameliorating Strike
6) Stunning Blow
7) Trip
8) was the crappy Anvil of Thunder, which I almost never used

I managed to find a reasonably easy to hit hotkey for Dire Charge (Alt+R) so I can still comfortably fit one more clickie attack into my setup. I'm thinking spend the AP on both Opportunity Attack and Deadly Strike, and have them share the same hotkey. For trash mobs stick with Deadly Strike, then swap to Opportunity Attack for bosses.

(EDIT after trying this out: Yep, that works pretty well for me.)

EllisDee37
01-08-2017, 05:41 AM
I've updated everything on the first page: The build itself, the "General Use" guide, and the gear. The gear now reflects what my actual guy on live uses. As for the build changes, nothing worth noting, really. Just a couple minor enhancement changes (to take the newer kensei clickie attacks) and a minor destiny change, dropping anvil of thunder and taking critical damage instead. I also swapped out Brace for Impact for Boulder Toss in the twists because I like having the ability to do range damage, like to crystals.

My guy on live, who has two fighter past lives but otherwise is exactly as written, has a dire charge dc of around 103 and stunning blow of around 93. Not great, of course, but not altogether terrible.

unbongwah
10-26-2017, 10:42 AM
Since you mentioned this build in another thread: which domain would you pick? Since you only have 8 cleric lvls, I was thinking Strength domain was the obvious pick for using STR instead of DEX for Reflex saves. Or maybe Luck for the Displacement SLA? Either would be a nice defensive boost.

Also what do you think of switching deities to Onatar for the melee boost from Onatar's Forge? Downside is short duration due to only 8 Religious Lore feats. :(

EllisDee37
10-26-2017, 04:47 PM
Since you mentioned this build in another thread: which domain would you pick? Since you only have 8 cleric lvls, I was thinking Strength domain was the obvious pick for using STR instead of DEX for Reflex saves. Or maybe Luck for the Displacement SLA? Either would be a nice defensive boost.Strength domain seems like a no-brainer. When I tested it on lamannia, I got something like +23 reflex saves compared to not having it. Kinid of hard to pass that up, y'know? 180 hit points from Animal Domain at cap would definitely be nice, but it's hard to pass up +23 reflex save.

Luck Domain is an interesting thought. I do have extend, meaning it would last for 8 * 6 * 2 = 1:36 per cast. That's right in the sweet spot of refreshing power surge, divine might and divine favor anyway. Hmmm. That's an actual tough decision.

Which would you recommend?


Also what do you think of switching deities to Onatar for the melee boost from Onatar's Forge? Downside is short duration due to only 8 Religious Lore feats. :(72 seconds every 10 minutes feels a bit short, and I definitely don't lack short-duration clickies to play with as-is. I think I like the "heal everything" clickie more.

unbongwah
10-26-2017, 05:37 PM
I was thinking: why not both? ;) Elf ftr 12 / cleric 8 Strength Domain with Shadow DM for Displacement. Something like 33 Kensei / 13 SD / 12 elf / 11 RS / 11 WP. Or do you think Ameliorating Strike is better healing than RS bursts on a cleric 8 build?

Huge boost to Reflex saves and 50% concealment? YES PLZ :D

EllisDee37
10-26-2017, 05:54 PM
do you think Ameliorating Strike is better healing than RS bursts on a cleric 8 build?Pretty sure it is, yes. Even if they're even, Ameliorating Strike is much higher dps since you don't have to stop swinging to use it. Plus it can doublestrike.

My kensei warpriest on live is level 30 with 385 positive spellpower. Using that for comparison...

Positive Energy Burst
12.5 base (1d8 + 8)
*5.60 spellpower (385 devotion + 75 empower healing spell)
-------
70

Ameliorating Strike
45 base (30d2)
*4.85 (385 devotion)
-----
218

Figure around 100 healing amp to double both of the numbers for actual use. (140 vs 436)

adrian69
11-02-2017, 03:51 PM
A Good Death (Tier 5, 1 AP)
Perform a melee attack with +1 Critical Multiplier. On Damage: If the target is below 30% health, deal 500 damage that scales with 400% Melee Power.

Everything in Devil's Details was dying in like 4 swings, so this enhancement seems kind of useless for regular questing. It should be nice for raids, but when I tried it on the portals in shroud part 1, it said I wasn't using the right weapon. (My focus is greataxes, my portal beater is a maul.) So that's a bummer. I then tried it again on Harry in parts 4 & 5, since he had enough hit points that he'd be at <30% for a noticeable amount of time. To be honest, I was greatly underwhelmed. I mean, sure, the 2-4k proc damage is nice (I have just over 100 melee power before blitz) but that's essentially just an extra crit. The long 15-second cooldown meant I could only use it once before harry died in both parts.

My conclusion is that this enhancement sounds great on paper, but ends up being an afterthought in practice.



This doesn't sound right in my experience. I think it works a little different than its description based on roll. I see anything around 2.3 to less than 5k in late heroics, which yeah is overkill, and somewhere above general crit to 22k depending on roll. Yeah I guess I probably have anywhere from 180 to 240 melee power going on though. But I agree that most of the time it sums up to probably a normal crit^15 to 20%, but it has been a life saver sometimes. I think it works better if you solo, especially as a emergency attack vs. being something to autokill or cut a bosses last little bit of health down.

Getting ready to try a modified version of this build. Though I am going 12 Ftr 7 Cleric 1 Barbarian or Rogue. TWF or SWF. Probably SWF and barbarian if my TR buddy decides to trap again. How does CCW do with only 7 Cleric levels? Not a big numbers cruncher, but I know I'll have at least 312 PSP at 28 and 20% crit chance+ and around 140 HAMP (214 when needed). I probably will not dip into Radiant Servant any, so will CCWs, AmStrike, and Cocoon be enough in EE slavers and R2s? CSW on my 20 ranger w/ same was doing great. s

IMO, Strength Domain is a no brainer. Reflex saves through Strength...on my :)

EllisDee37
11-02-2017, 04:25 PM
Getting ready to try a modified version of this build. Though I am going 12 Ftr 7 Cleric 1 Barbarian or Rogue. TWF or SWF. Probably SWF and barbarian if my TR buddy decides to trap again. How does CCW do with only 7 Cleric levels? Not a big numbers cruncher, but I know I'll have at least 312 PSP at 28 and 20% crit chance+ and around 140 HAMP (214 when needed). I probably will not dip into Radiant Servant any, so will CCWs, AmStrike, and Cocoon be enough in EE slavers and R2s? CSW on my 20 ranger w/ same was doing great. s

IMO, Strength Domain is a no brainer. Reflex saves through Strength...on my :)Neither Ameliorating Strike nor Rejuvenation Cocoon is based on class levels, so those will be good to go regardless of split.

A level 7 CCW vs a level 20 CSW is the real comparison:

31.5 Cure Serious (at max caster level 15)
29 Cure Critical (at caster level 7)
30 Cure Critical (at caster level 8)

Things I can report from experience, having used this guy as well as having 18 levels of ranger or paladin: the kensei warpriest's cures are more expensive (20sp vs 12sp) but basically the same amount of healing. Ameliorating Strike is seriously awesomesauce, not just because of the utility (FREE healing!) but also because it's just plain fun. It'll drive you crazy when your AmSt misses, which still puts it on 15-second cooldown (forever!) but it's such a reassuring ability to have.

I find that instead of doing between-combat healing, I look for the next combat to heal from the previous one. AmStr is a great opener if you're not full strength.

Frumpyster
11-06-2017, 12:53 PM
I agree that Healing is matter of play style choice.

Full Radiant Servant (min 26 APs) with the addition of Intense Healing and Incredible Healing the Positive Energy Burst might be pretty good on this 12/8 character level split.

Positive Energy Burst
12.5 base (1d8 + 14)