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Phaeton_Seraph
09-26-2013, 05:21 PM
Am I correct in believing that the Battle Engineer tree has enhancements for these weapons?


Do the new enhancements make the Runic Champion concept viable(er) now?

I'm a little confused though. The class isn't granted profficiency in either of those weapons, does it? Do the enhancement compensate for it at all, or do you really gotta go "all in" and take a feat to observe anything remotely shiny?

Panzermeyer
09-26-2013, 05:36 PM
Am I correct in believing that the Battle Engineer tree has enhancements for these weapons?


Do the new enhancements make the Runic Champion concept viable(er) now?

I'm a little confused though. The class isn't granted profficiency in either of those weapons, does it? Do the enhancement compensate for it at all, or do you really gotta go "all in" and take a feat to observe anything remotely shiny?

Yes the enhancement tree of Battle Engineer has hand and a half training enhancements.

Having use niether on my Artie, I am not sure if proficiency in either is granted, it would be quite silly if it is not picked up automatically somewhere along the line but that wouldn't surprise me.

Phaeton_Seraph
09-26-2013, 07:23 PM
it would be quite silly if it is not picked up automatically somewhere along the line but that wouldn't surprise me.

Well that's the thing, isn't it? Unlike Rogue Assassins and Kukris, the Artie enhancements are not explicit on this, so my tendency is to assume it's not granted.

Systern
09-26-2013, 07:49 PM
Bastard Sword is a class feat, so you can take it at level 4 with one of the Arti bonus feats.

As for whether it's viable or not, depends... Rune arms still have wonky hit box detection, and mobs wanting to get on top of your exact coordinates mean that you'll often fire the rune arm through their heads.
There's also the issue with power attack only adding 1x dmg opposed to 1.5x with a 2 handed weapon.
Plus you're in medium armor, with mediocre saves, and not the best damage mitigation in the world (Ablative Armor's cooldown is too long).

So, it's pretty much a flavor build...

Phaeton_Seraph
09-27-2013, 03:04 AM
Well, I still don't think it's a first life build.

That said, the Shadar-Kai may make for an interesting base for a first life Melee Artificer. The class enhancements like Shadow Jaunt make getting through traps real easy, and then there's a possible second level of Rogue for Evasion, and Assassin enhancements to increase DPS...


Perhaps it's my play style, when a mob is all up in my grill, I aim the Arm at his, or her, feet and I always switch to something with an exploding shot. So I don't see myself missing very often at close quarters. So I've always been a little dubious about the complaint you make.

OTOH, your observations are your own, so I don't really doubt you either. Simply put, I haven't observed very much of this phenomenon and my experience is that aiming at the feet seems to compensate well for this.

Additionally, I never use the cone-style rune arms, which I assume were designed for QCB and, as I've never attempted a Runic Champion, I just haven't used them.


But maybe I'll try to make one some weekend with the Shadar-Kai rogue splash and put my collection to use with some trials.



Thanks for pointing out that it's now a class feat. I'll re-examine that when I muck abut.

Rakuda13
09-29-2013, 09:03 PM
Well, I still don't think it's a first life build.

That said, the Shadar-Kai may make for an interesting base for a first life Melee Artificer. The class enhancements like Shadow Jaunt make getting through traps real easy, and then there's a possible second level of Rogue for Evasion, and Assassin enhancements to increase DPS...


Perhaps it's my play style, when a mob is all up in my grill, I aim the Arm at his, or her, feet and I always switch to something with an exploding shot. So I don't see myself missing very often at close quarters. So I've always been a little dubious about the complaint you make.

OTOH, your observations are your own, so I don't really doubt you either. Simply put, I haven't observed very much of this phenomenon and my experience is that aiming at the feet seems to compensate well for this.

Additionally, I never use the cone-style rune arms, which I assume were designed for QCB and, as I've never attempted a Runic Champion, I just haven't used them.


But maybe I'll try to make one some weekend with the Shadar-Kai rogue splash and put my collection to use with some trials.



Thanks for pointing out that it's now a class feat. I'll re-examine that when I muck abut.
You can also get the rune arm from House D,gives you the bastard sword feat but the shot from the arm is up close. Just so you can try it without investing feats.

droid327
09-29-2013, 11:17 PM
Like others have said, its not an autogrant, but (like Fighter and Wizard and Monk), since Artis get bonus feats, they just expect you to use those on BS/DA prof. Unless you're a Dwarf with a Martial splash, of course, in which case you'll get it as your usual autogrant.

2 Rogue/18 Arti isn't bad for melee, actually, as Rogue gets a nice set of melee attacks (Shiv, BTO, Sly Flourish) plus Evasion.

As for runearm targeting issues, just jump before firing. Jumping doesn't count as "moving" for the purposes of resetting your charge level, though it does put enough "space" between you and your target that the shots will hit.