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Trillea
09-25-2013, 04:33 PM
I am done TRing my main Selee through off-lives, and will most likely be TRing her for the last time into sorc tonight. She has 2 wiz, 2 sorc, and 3 cleric past lives (God I hate being cleric).. I am currently thinking of going 16 sorc/2 fvs/2 pal with specs in fire, force and electric for wings. I will be going spell focus Conjuration because I love web enough to suffer through 3 past lives of cleric.. She will be human for the extra feat and healing amp. Here is what I am thinking of using for her build:

STR: 20=10 (base - 2 build points) +3 (tome) +7 (item)
DEX: 19=10 (base - 2 build points) +3 (tome) +6 (item)
CON: 27=14 (base - 6 build points) +3 (tome) +7 (item) +1 (exceptional) +2 (insightful)
INT: 24=15 (base - 8 build points) +3 (tome) +6 (item)
WIS: 19=10 (base - 2 build points) +3 (tome) +6 (item)
CHA: 48=18 (base - 16 build points) +5 (tome-already have) +7 (levelups) +5 (enhancements) +8 (item) +1 (exceptional) +2 (insight) +2 (ED - twisted in from spellsinger) - What am I missing here??

Non-CON and CHA stats may have some other buffs due to my random equipment but this is the base I know I have..

Feats:
1) Maximize
1H) Empower
3) Wiz past life
6) Spell Focus Conj
9) Heighten
12) Grtr spell focus conj
15) Spell pen
18) Grtr spell pen
21) Epic spell pen
24) Epic spell focus Conj
27) Ruin? Epic CHA?

Leveling order - PSSSSSSSSPSSSSSSSSFF - start with Pal to get Heal as a class skill, then 8 sorc for wall of fire ASAP, then 2nd paladin for saves when spells kinda start to hurt some, then sorc till 18, then FvS to get more fire/force spell power.

Skills - Maxing Spellcraft, Heal, UMD and Concentration (after tomes kick in) every level will pretty much take all my skill points

I still have her +20 heart just in case I screw her up royally (or decide I just love pure sorc too much), but I would much rather not need it if at all possible. Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated!

RedHost
09-25-2013, 04:36 PM
+5 (tome-already have)

The build itself I can not really help with, as it is not the type of caster that I personally like. But I would suggest that you consider waiting to TR until you can run 3x Spectral Dragons in the Mabar event and pick up another +5 tome? It is very easy to do if you are patient enough to wait a couple of weeks, and would potentially unlock Epic Toughness for this build. At least, if you siphon 4 build points from places where they are not doing much for you like STR.

EDIT: Also, what exactly are you using Spell Penetration for that you do not also have an increase to your saving throws for? Web is great because it is no-SR crowd control, so what is it that you are trying to pierce Spell Resistance but not increasing your DCs for?

Trillea
09-25-2013, 04:43 PM
The build itself I can not really help with, as it is not the type of caster that I personally like. But I would suggest that you consider waiting to TR until you can run 3x Spectral Dragons in the Mabar event and pick up another +5 tome? It is very easy to do if you are patient enough to wait a couple of weeks, and would potentially unlock Epic Toughness for this build. At least, if you siphon 4 build points from places where they are not doing much for you like STR.

EDIT: Also, what exactly are you using Spell Penetration for that you do not also have an increase to your saving throws for? Web is great because it is no-SR crowd control, so what is it that you are trying to pierce Spell Resistance but not increasing your DCs for?

The spell pen feats are to be able to CC stuff that is web-immune with Otto's Irresistable Dance. Too many firey critters to put all my eggs in 1 (really sticky) basket..

Havok.cry
09-25-2013, 04:44 PM
May I suggest fitting quicken in, since you are going to be doing the epic levels now I assume. Quicken will make your spells unable to be interrupted. If you are going to go for epic elite quests, then concentration will not be enough by itself to prevent interruption, not like it was before.
maybe:
18) Quicken
21) Greater spell pen
24) Epic spell focus Conj
27) Epic spell pen

Wizza
09-25-2013, 04:45 PM
Will you be running EEs? Stormhorn and Wheloon EEs?

Trillea
09-25-2013, 04:51 PM
May I suggest fitting quicken in, since you are going to be doing the epic levels now I assume. Quicken will make your spells unable to be interrupted. If you are going to go for epic elite quests, then concentration will not be enough by itself to prevent interruption, not like it was before.
maybe:
18) Quicken
21) Greater spell pen
24) Epic spell focus Conj
27) Epic spell pen

I like this. Will heavily consider it, esp since I didn't know what to do with that last feat.


Will you be running EEs? Stormhorn and Wheloon EEs?


Yes, I hope to.

Panzermeyer
09-25-2013, 06:01 PM
The spell pen feats are to be able to CC stuff that is web-immune with Otto's Irresistable Dance. Too many firey critters to put all my eggs in 1 (really sticky) basket..

Something to consider around spell pen. The new Wheloon and Storm Horns, and a lot of the Gaint Hold Stuff for that matter doesn't have much in the way of Spell Resistance.

Spending 3 feats for the bonus to spell pen when you also already have 2 wizzy (+4 spell pen) seems like a bit of overkill for more or less one spell. You might want to considering not taking all 3 spell pen feats and spending those in some other areas, (like quicken).

Just a thought.

Trillea
09-25-2013, 06:12 PM
Something to consider around spell pen. The new Wheloon and Storm Horns, and a lot of the Gaint Hold Stuff for that matter doesn't have much in the way of Spell Resistance.

Spending 3 feats for the bonus to spell pen when you also already have 2 wizzy (+4 spell pen) seems like a bit of overkill for more or less one spell. You might want to considering not taking all 3 spell pen feats and spending those in some other areas, (like quicken).

Just a thought.
It is a good thought, and thank you. I am also trying to future-proof this for if they ever make epic Amrath or (please please please) go into the Celestial part of Amrath. Epic hellhounds and the like would be immune to fire and have very significant SR. Like I said, I would really like to not have to TR her ever again, I am tired of it.

Other friends have suggested dropping the whole SR line to go for mental toughness as well, I am also considering that.

Havok.cry
09-25-2013, 09:13 PM
It is a good thought, and thank you. I am also trying to future-proof this for if they ever make epic Amrath or (please please please) go into the Celestial part of Amrath. Epic hellhounds and the like would be immune to fire and have very significant SR. Like I said, I would really like to not have to TR her ever again, I am tired of it.

Other friends have suggested dropping the whole SR line to go for mental toughness as well, I am also considering that.

Mental toughness line would get you more staying power in the form of extra sp, and higher dps in the form of extra spell crit chance. Spell pen on the other hand gives you greater versatility in your effective spell selection and what you are effective against. If you are trying to build for the long term, versatility is what I would choose.

Trillea
09-25-2013, 09:34 PM
Mental toughness line would get you more staying power in the form of extra sp, and higher dps in the form of extra spell crit chance. Spell pen on the other hand gives you greater versatility in your effective spell selection and what you are effective against. If you are trying to build for the long term, versatility is what I would choose.

Pretty much exactly my train of thought. Thanks.

psykopeta
09-25-2013, 10:20 PM
Pretty much exactly my train of thought. Thanks.

few thoughts about what are u gonna do in your last life:

ur sp will be over 2,5k w/o conc opp item nor mental toughness line

ur dc will be 10+8+19+4+3 = 44 that's 1 more than "no fail on most EH"

will have to remove your stick (that will have the spell power prolly) for a heal scroll, which means a concentration check (you're gonna take prolly quicken to avoid it with spells) and non empower/maximized cause u won't have anything for scrolls, only healing amp

so:

about the dc, don't spend 3 feats on it and get sp, +3 to dc from items isn't that hard to meet (and looking at ur plan u won't reach a safe spot for your web unless waste sp with symbolf death+web and prolly not even this way will work)

spell penetration? i would never take it as sorc

healing with scrolls? u have sp, bad idea losing spellpower to use scrolls, twisting cocoon+empower heal would make the deal, but need to be good kiting XD

i would go wf and aim more for survavility (that means at cap: more sp, more feats to reduce damage incoming via dodge, saves that are low right now, like force of personality as example or having evade also, more hp, and if you are gonna be shiradi drop empower+maximize)

as lvling the feats, etc aren't bad planned, simply won't work on most EE and some EH

don't get me wrong, my sorc uses scrolls to heal too, but between combats and to save sp, with mobs dealing 80+ per hit wisn't the best idea to have a concentration check (i've said 80, pretty common in EH)

Panzermeyer
09-26-2013, 09:29 AM
Mental toughness line would get you more staying power in the form of extra sp, and higher dps in the form of extra spell crit chance. Spell pen on the other hand gives you greater versatility in your effective spell selection and what you are effective against. If you are trying to build for the long term, versatility is what I would choose.

I am all for versitility, but they did only talk about a sp check for disco ball. If most of the spells they carry are none spell pen check spells (ie many of the damage spells for a sorc) I wouldn't both with Spell pen.

Like I said if as a sorc I only carry one or two spells that require a spell pen check (which I do on my sorc) spending 3 feats when I am already getting a +4 from past lives and can get more from equipment, it a big waste. Feats are hard to come by and there are much better feats I can take to increase the survivability of my sorc depending on how I build the toon.

If I carry 4, 5 or 6 spells that have a spell pen check, then yes spending the 3 feats for spell pen successful definitely makes sense. But that is generally not something I would do. Sorcerers, particularly with the new enhancement pass, will rarely if ever hit the spell pen and dc's that a wizard will be able to have. If I was spell pen and dc's I'd go Wizard. Otherwise I would just play on the strengths of the sorcerer, damage output.

Havok.cry
09-26-2013, 09:45 AM
I am all for versitility, but they did only talk about a sp check for disco ball. If most of the spells they carry are none spell pen check spells (ie many of the damage spells for a sorc) I wouldn't both with Spell pen.

Like I said if as a sorc I only carry one or two spells that require a spell pen check (which I do on my sorc) spending 3 feats when I am already getting a +4 from past lives and can get more from equipment, it a big waste. Feats are hard to come by and there are much better feats I can take to increase the survivability of my sorc depending on how I build the toon.

If I carry 4, 5 or 6 spells that have a spell pen check, then yes spending the 3 feats for spell pen successful definitely makes sense. But that is generally not something I would do. Sorcerers, particularly with the new enhancement pass, will rarely if ever hit the spell pen and dc's that a wizard will be able to have. If I was spell pen and dc's I'd go Wizard. Otherwise I would just play on the strengths of the sorcerer, damage output.
Yes, I am sorry I was assuming this was understood. If you don't have enough spells to make the spell pen feats useful then they would be a waste. On my own sorc I was specced for both conjuration and evocation, and nothing I had used spell pen, so I didn't bother. I was assuming that he was taking more spell pen using spells that disco ball, as he didn't exactly go over his entire spell list.

Panzermeyer
09-26-2013, 11:17 AM
Yes, I am sorry I was assuming this was understood. If you don't have enough spells to make the spell pen feats useful then they would be a waste. On my own sorc I was specced for both conjuration and evocation, and nothing I had used spell pen, so I didn't bother. I was assuming that he was taking more spell pen using spells that disco ball, as he didn't exactly go over his entire spell list.

Yes, he did not go through spell list. But in original post he only mentioned using Spell Pen with disco balls. If that was all he was shooting for it did seem like a waste of three feats for just one spell, particularly since the new content most mob's don't have Spell Resistance.

Trillea
09-26-2013, 08:17 PM
Yes, he did not go through spell list. But in original post he only mentioned using Spell Pen with disco balls. If that was all he was shooting for it did seem like a waste of three feats for just one spell, particularly since the new content most mob's don't have Spell Resistance.

Here is my spell list plan for now:

1) shield, prot/evil, jump, magic missile
2) Web, scorching ray, resist energy, blur
3) fireball, haste, chain missiles, displacement
4) Wall of Fire, fire shield, force missiles, enervation
5) Ball Lightning, Eladar's Electric, Prot/elements, Cyclonic Blast
6) Disintegrate, Chain Lightning, Acid fog
7) Prismatic Spray, DBF
8) Ottos Irresistable Dance

SLA's - shocking grasp, electric loop, lightning bolt, burning hands, scorch

After going through this, I can definitely see doing away with the spell pen line. I literally have 1 spell that would benefit from it..

So I can have my high DC web and my SP too.... yes please!

Let's see what the feat line looks like now:

1) Maximize
1H) Empower
3) Wiz past life
6) Spell Focus Conj
9) Heighten
12) Grtr spell focus conj
15) Mental Toughness
18) Quicken
21) Empower Healing Spell (for cocoon and spring)
24) Improved Mental Toughness
27) Epic Spell Focus Conj

Hmm, that looks good.. Anyone see other improvements in the spell line or feat choices?

Panzermeyer
09-27-2013, 09:51 AM
After going through this, I can definitely see doing away with the spell pen line. I literally have 1 spell that would benefit from it.

2 spells. Enervation checks against Spell Resistance. But again 2 spells, don't justify 3 feats to me.



1) Maximize
1H) Empower
3) Wiz past life
6) Spell Focus Conj
9) Heighten
12) Grtr spell focus conj
15) Mental Toughness
18) Quicken
21) Empower Healing Spell (for cocoon and spring)
24) Improved Mental Toughness
27) Epic Spell Focus Conj

Hmm, that looks good.. Anyone see other improvements in the spell line or feat choices?

I'd say that looks good based on what you want to do.

Something to consider, though I am not familiar enough with FvS and what it adds with the new enhancements.

But taking 2 lvl of FvS being an Air Savant you loose the immunity to Knock-down. IMHO that is pretty powerful ability. What you gaining with the 2 lvl of FvS that is off setting that lose?

Trillea
09-27-2013, 12:01 PM
2 spells. Enervation checks against Spell Resistance. But again 2 spells, don't justify 3 feats to me.



I'd say that looks good based on what you want to do.

Something to consider, though I am not familiar enough with FvS and what it adds with the new enhancements.

But taking 2 lvl of FvS being an Air Savant you loose the immunity to Knock-down. IMHO that is pretty powerful ability. What you gaining with the 2 lvl of FvS that is off setting that lose?

30 fire/force spellpower from scourge, better universal spellpower per point spent, 4% crit chance with fire and force, free spellpoints on every spell crit on fire and force.

Panzermeyer
09-27-2013, 12:09 PM
30 fire/force spellpower from scourge, better universal spellpower per point spent, 4% crit chance with fire and force, free spellpoints on every spell crit on fire and force.

Bazinga =)