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A_Sheep2
09-16-2013, 09:43 PM
I've just come back to the game after a hiatus. I've got a dual wielding battle-bard and he is enjoyable. I'll probably spend most of my time playing him.

However, this PDK cha to-hit and damage thing is very intriguing. I am thinking that I might want to also build up a purple dragon knight enchanter build. I was thinking two-handed fighting, but I would still primarily focus on his spellcasting. In "boss" fights, he would work as a healer and some extra DPS and in trash, he would rock the house with crowd control.

There are a few problems, though...

PDK's first level is forced to be fighter, so you lose out on the capstone enhancement straight off and you get a bunch of negatives.

Also, you get 3 feats at level one, but you can't use any of them on metamagic.

So, what feats would you take at level 1? Well, one of them has to be a fighter bonus feat and I'm sure I'll want power attack, so that's an easy choice. I feel like the THF feats are a little underwhelming, but I guess I could do that or toughness or Magical Training?

Anyways, the rest of the feats I've got a good idea what I want to pursue, but those two "extra" at first level are daunting!

unbongwah
09-17-2013, 10:42 AM
Not saying it's ideal, but I would probably do PDK bard 18 / ftr 2. For melee, you want Power Atk/CL/GC/IC:Slash; the rest can go into metamagics to boost your healing and/or DCs. Plus Toughness or FoP as your 3rd lvl 1 feat, b/c I can't think of anything better. :rolleyes:

A_Sheep2
09-17-2013, 11:58 AM
Not saying it's ideal, but I would probably do PDK bard 18 / ftr 2. For melee, you want Power Atk/CL/GC/IC:Slash; the rest can go into metamagics to boost your healing and/or DCs. Plus Toughness or FoP as your 3rd lvl 1 feat, b/c I can't think of anything better. :rolleyes:

I guess I missed the boat on Cleave and Great Cleave. Are they really that much of a DPS increase? Let's say on a single target? (I'm assuming with some skill, you could still use fascinate and hit only one thing with a cleave...)

unbongwah
09-17-2013, 12:27 PM
Single target, no - multiple targets, yes. Naturally, you won't want to Cleave thru Fascinated mobs; but you won't be using Fascinate all the time, either.

BoBoDaClown
09-17-2013, 01:21 PM
I guess I missed the boat on Cleave and Great Cleave. Are they really that much of a DPS increase? Let's say on a single target? (I'm assuming with some skill, you could still use fascinate and hit only one thing with a cleave...)

They also qualify you for overwhelming critical, an epic feat (along with PA and IC).

A_Sheep2
09-18-2013, 07:07 PM
They also qualify you for overwhelming critical, an epic feat (along with PA and IC).

Unfortunately for this build, that requires 23+ strength.

voodoogroves
09-18-2013, 09:05 PM
Unfortunately for this build, that requires 23+ strength.

Sadly, yes.

THF builds want PA/Cleave/Great Cleave and really want to aim for Overwhelming Crit - which begs STR.

If you really want to go CHA based, maybe look at TWF. There's much less issue with stat-overlap.

Trasak
10-10-2013, 01:17 PM
I was looking at a similar concept but I went for the two weapon fighting line. Buy getting to a starting 13 str and 15 dex I could pick up PA, 2WF and Toughness. I am not totally happy about ignoring spell Pen but I really dont see a way to fit it in and I am sure there is a little more tweaking that could be done AP wise but the core is all there.

This build really is a support character with some pretty serious facinates, near max inspire courage, charisma to attack and damage, crit happy short sword user, solid healing, good shout damage, scroll healing and extended buff bot.

Thinking fatesinger is a very strong fit or twisting reign into Primal Avatar.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Purple Dragon Knight Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 380
Spell Points: 770
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 14
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 14 16
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 10 12
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 16 27

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 2 21
Bluff 3 16
Concentration 2 36
Diplomacy 3 38
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 16
Heal 1 19
Hide 2 11
Intimidate 3 16
Jump 6 18
Listen -1 8
Move Silently 2 11
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a 41
Repair 0 9
Search 0 9
Spellcraft 0 9
Spot -1 8
Swim n/a n/a
Tumble n/a 12
Use Magic Device 3 39

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Versatility: Spell Power Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Cormyrean Knight Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Enchant Weapon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Iced Edges (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Frozen Fury (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Frozen Fury (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Frozen Fury (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Northwind (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Northwind (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Northwind (Rank 3)


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Sewers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Dead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Makers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Virtuoso (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Yellow Marigold Crown (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Enthrallment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Trance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sustaining Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Arcane Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Capering (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Vigor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Frolic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Victory Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Obstinance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - High Spirits (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - High Spirits (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - High Spirits (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Lasting Inspiration






.

A_Sheep2
10-11-2013, 06:19 PM
Yeah, I've tabled this guy for now. I am just not sure how to build him. Your build looks a bit stronger on the DPS than I was planning to make mine, but dual wielding to get extra shattermantle or will save reduction does seem like the way to go.

Laeelin
10-14-2013, 03:12 PM
In U20 you will be able to LR+1 into pure bard if that helps.

A_Sheep2
10-14-2013, 07:42 PM
In U20 you will be able to LR+1 into pure bard if that helps.

WOAH, really?!?!? This is awesome! Any news about TR-ing? The extra 2 build points would be very useful.

Failedlegend
10-14-2013, 08:35 PM
In U20 you will be able to LR+1 into pure bard if that helps.

I fail to see why they can't just remove the forced Lvl 1 instead of forcing us to spend money to remove it.

unbongwah
10-14-2013, 10:54 PM
I fail to see why they can't just remove the forced Lvl 1 instead of forcing us to spend money to remove it.
<insert "P2W is ruining DDO!!1!" rant here>

:rolleyes:

Silken-Akira
10-15-2013, 08:30 AM
Like it.
I actually am assasin now and want to to be bard at core next life. I didn't find my flavor yet but this seems to be much in the direction I want to go. (although I didn't read a lot of positive things of Warchanter till now, and not truly convinced by it myself)

Laeelin
10-16-2013, 07:46 AM
WOAH, really?!?!? This is awesome! Any news about TR-ing? The extra 2 build points would be very useful.

You will be able to TR as well.

Standard: TR anytime between 20 and cap
Iconic: Only able to TR at cap

You will also be able to TR into an iconic.


I fail to see why they can't just remove the forced Lvl 1 instead of forcing us to spend money to remove it.

I agree completely.

Silken-Akira
10-29-2013, 09:31 AM
My build as a THF bard starting PDK.
Any suggestions are welcome.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Silken aicira
Level 28 True Neutral Purple Dragon Knight Female
(1 Fighter \ 19 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 338
Spell Points: 813
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 17
Will: 20

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28)
Strength 14 18 18
Dexterity 15 21 22
Constitution 12 16 16
Intelligence 12 16 16
Wisdom 8 12 12
Charisma 16 26 29

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 22

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28) (Level 28)
Balance 3 29 37
Bluff 3 9 17
Concentration 1 26 36
Diplomacy 3 9 17
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 3 26 34
Heal -1 1 9
Hide 2 10 18
Intimidate 4 10 18
Jump 6 25 33
Listen -1 8 16
Move Silently 2 9 17
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a 32 42
Repair 1 3 11
Search 1 3 11
Spellcraft 2 26 34
Spot -1 1 9
Swim 3 5 13
Tumble 3 18 26
Use Magic Device 5 32 40

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Force of Personality
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Versatility: Spell Power Boost (Rank 1)


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Cormyrean Knight Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors


Level 4 (Bard)
Spell (1): Sonic Blast
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Adaptability: Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Haunting Melody (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Action Surge: Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Sewers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Flicker (Rank 1)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (2): Soundburst


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Dead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Violet Marigold Crown (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)


Level 8 (Bard)
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (3): Crushing Despair
Spell (2): Suggestion


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (3): Good Hope
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Versatility: Defense Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Action Surge: Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Haunting Melody (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Haunting Melody (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Inspired Flicker (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Enthrallment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Trance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 1)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sustaining Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Makers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Arcane Might (Rank 1)


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (4): Shout
Spell (5): Summon Monster V
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Vigor (Rank 1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (1): Feather Fall
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Spell (6): Greater Shout
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistible Dance
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Adaptability: Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Action Surge: Charisma (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Reviving Verse (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Raucous Refrain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Arcane Aid (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Advanced Musical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 3)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (6): Summon Monster VI
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Exotic Weapon Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Enchant Weapon (Rank 1)


Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (3): Deep Slumber
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Virtuoso (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (6): Mass Charm Monster
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Iced Edges (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Mage Armor


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Lasting Inspiration

voodoogroves
10-29-2013, 11:19 AM
Once LR becomes a real option, a pure PDK bard could work w/o the fighter dip. That could be interesting.

Chai
10-29-2013, 01:52 PM
I fail to see why they can't just remove the forced Lvl 1 instead of forcing us to spend money to remove it.

<insert "P2W is ruining DDO!!1!" rant here>

:rolleyes:

Naaa, that rant already happened, when I claimed support for it would only result in designing their game around it, and here in a literal fashion they are doing just that.

PDK will be the perfect race for Ek sorcs as well.

voodoogroves
10-29-2013, 02:38 PM
I still like Bladeforged - the one things Sorcs need are spell slots, and an EK Bladeforged not only gets some handy SLAs, that combo nets TWO in the high-constrained level 6 spells (recon + Tensers).

12/6/2 or 16/2/2 would be my thought - STR based, likely.

voodoogroves
10-29-2013, 02:42 PM
PDK will be the perfect race for Ek sorcs as well.

One more - an EK + WP is also a possibility (Ameliorating Strike), though unsure what I'd do w/ the other class (Paladin, I suppose)

DrakHar
10-30-2013, 10:02 AM
One more - an EK + WP is also a possibility (Ameliorating Strike), though unsure what I'd do w/ the other class (Paladin, I suppose)

You can be a pdk edk + paladin + wp if you use an LR +1