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Olath_Senger
09-11-2013, 08:55 PM
So I have a multiclassed Paladin parked at level 14. He is currently a Drow 6 Paladin/6 Ranger/2 Monk, and I was intending to go 12 Paladin/6 Ranger/2 Monk, fighting unarmed. However, before the enhancement pass this character wasn't very good. Now he's a bit better, but I want to use the LR +20 to make him even stronger.

The Ranger splash seems even better now, but I'm getting the impression that I could drop a few Ranger levels and still get many of the more important perks, such as doublestrike and offhand proc. So right now, I'm sort of leaning towards a 15 Pal/3 Monk/2 Ranger, or maybe 2 Monk/3 Ranger.

Another issue is that I'm not sure I want to continue this character as an unarmed. I already have two other characters fighting this way, but no characters fighting with two weapons. So at the moment I'm really leaning towards making him a TWFer with either rapiers, scimitars, or khopeshes. I'm not sure what choice would be best, but if I recall correctly, pre-U19 rapiers were the best choice for Drow. Has this changed?

Another thing I saw and went "Ooohh" is Ninja Spy's Ninja Training enhancement. Does this allow all piercing and slashing weapons to use Dex for to-hit/damage? If so, how would one use this with weapons other than long swords/short swords? You can't be centered with other weapons, can you?

So basically I want a build with good TWF damage and good survivability, keeping the focus on Paladin levels (at least 14 Paladin levels, preferable 15+). I'll be very appreciative of anyone willing to help me out.

Therigar
09-11-2013, 09:22 PM
The main advantage of ranger is access to Tempest for a build like yours. If you are going to go for Tempest you want to get far enough along that you get 100% off-hand strikes. That comes with Tempest core enhancement 4 which requires ranger 12.

The main advantage of paladin is access to Sacred Defender. If going Sacred Defender you want Sacred Defense which is core enhancement 3. That takes 6 paladin levels.

The main advantage of monk is access to Ninja Spy. If you go with 12 ranger and 6 paladin levels that only leaves room for 2 monk levels. This is enough as you really only need the first core enhancement in monk in order to turn short swords into ki weapons.

At this point you have the necessary enhancements to let you choose either a DEX focus or a STR focus for the build. While I typically argue for STR focus it might be worth going DEX. You could put all your build points into DEX/CON/WIS -- something like 17/14/16. Then put stat increases into DEX.

Make your weapons of choice short swords. Your ideal weapon is something like Celestia which gains DEX to hit and to damage from your Tempest core enhancements.

You could choose to give up 10% off-hand attacks and limit ranger to 6 levels. This becomes ranger 6/paladin 6/monk 8. The advantage here is that you can use the ranger trees to get nearly the full Tempest and Arcane Archer lines, the paladin tree for Sacred Defender and the monk trees for most of the Ninja Spy and Shintao enhancements. There are some added benefits to more monk levels as well -- primarily related to dodge and AC bonuses. It also eliminates one monk stance feat as Adept stances will autogrant at monk 6.

Therigar
09-11-2013, 09:26 PM
There is an enhancement in the fighter tree that lets you remain centered with your Kensai weapon. Making that work well takes a bit of work. But pay attention to the Tempest core enhancements that give DEX to hit and damage with light weapons. Note that this includes short swords which Ninja Spy makes a ki weapon.

It is much better to take the Tempest enhancements to go the DEX route for hit/damage than to try to make it work with Ninja Spy. One reason is Celestia. This weapon is arguably the best general purpose weapon available. It is STR to hit/damage to the Ninja Spy but DEX to hit/damage to the Tempest. That is because it does light damage and not piercing/slashing. Even though it is a short sword and would otherwise count, the damage type is wrong for the Ninja Spy enhancements.

Olath_Senger
09-12-2013, 06:25 PM
Good advice, thanks. But as I said before, I'd like to keep the character mainly a Paladin. If I recall correctly, though, the Tempest enhancement for Dex to-hit/damage comes at level 3, correct? So I could still go 15 Pal/3 Rgr/2 Mnk, Dex-based and with short swords as ki weapons. I'll suffer a bit of DPS but gain a decent amount of survivability. So I think I've decided on that split.

EllisDee37
09-12-2013, 06:51 PM
Tier 2 Deepwood Stalker: Improved Weapon Finesse. (Requires the feat.)

So ranger 2 is all you need.

Olath_Senger
09-13-2013, 07:07 PM
So I did some work in the planner to try to come up with a build. Feats are tight, especially in the middle levels when I start getting the TWF line and Improved Crit. I'm a little shaky on character builds (haven't really played since February or thereabouts) so I'm sure there's mistakes. For example, I wasn't sure if I should take Empower Healing or Maximize.

The tomes used in the build are the ones I currently have active on the character. I'm not planning on purchasing any more.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)


Level 24 Lawful Good Drow Male
(15 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 3 Ranger \ 4 Epic)
Hit Points: 324
Spell Points: 325
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 23
Will: 16


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 24)
Strength 12 13
Dexterity 16 24
Constitution 14 15
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 14 14
Charisma 12 14


Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 24)
Balance 5 14
Bluff 1 6
Concentration 6 29
Diplomacy 1 6
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 1 6
Heal 6 15
Hide 3 11
Intimidate 1 6
Jump 5 11
Listen 2 8
Move Silently 3 11
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 4
Search 0 6
Spot 4 12
Swim 1 5
Tumble 4 12
Use Magic Device 3 17

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse




Level 2 (Ranger)




Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness




Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack




Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge




Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Adept of Forms




Level 7 (Paladin)




Level 8 (Paladin)




Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting




Level 10 (Paladin)




Level 11 (Paladin)




Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting




Level 13 (Paladin)




Level 14 (Paladin)




Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons




Level 16 (Paladin)




Level 17 (Paladin)




Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell




Level 19 (Paladin)




Level 20 (Paladin)




Level 21 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms




Level 22 (Paladin)




Level 23 (Paladin)




Level 24 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms






Critiques are very welcome :). I'm not going to LR for a while yet, so please comment.

unbongwah
09-16-2013, 11:42 AM
FWIW, here's my idea for what I was thinking of LRing my drow pally into, inspired by Pyrene (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/412000-Pyrene-the-Endgame-Paladin):

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 25 Lawful Good Drow Female
(15 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 3 Ranger \ 5 Epic)
Hit Points: 337
Spell Points: 260
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 18
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 25)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 16 17
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 5
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 25)
Balance 3 15
Bluff 2 8
Concentration 5 28
Diplomacy 2 8
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 8
Heal 3 26
Hide 3 8
Intimidate 2 8
Jump 7 16
Listen -1 6
Move Silently 3 8
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 6
Search 1 8
Spot 3 15
Swim 3 12
Tumble n/a 9
Use Magic Device 4 19

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead (or Evil Outsider)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge (filler)


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 19 (Ranger)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 21 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 22 (Paladin)


Level 23 (Paladin)


Level 24 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Paladin)


TWF w/rapiers + Manyshot; I wasn't planning on being centered, since I already had some lt armor I want to keep using. Rgr 3 gets me 3 free feats, +10% offhand proc chance from Tempest core, and +75 Pos spellpower (until it's nerfed); monk splash is for the feats, +3% Dodge from Ninja / Acrobatic (which applies even when uncentered), probably some sneak atk. Thought about going DEX-based, but Divine Might is just too good to pass up. Concentration & Heal are kinda placeholder skills; not sure what I want to max out, frankly.

If I wanted a centered version, I'd probably do monk 6 / pal 14 w/short swords; either Master Earth stance for PRR + crit multiplier or Wind stance for extra doublestrike.

Lvl 3 feat is up for grabs; I could also take Force of Personality or Precise Shot (if I find a +3 DEX tome, I'll swap PS in so I can take IPS somewhere).