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View Full Version : Dex to Damage working as expexted?



Torvaldsberg
09-10-2013, 04:29 PM
It may be another display issue, but (according to descriptions) I expected that Improved Weapon Finesse from Deep Woods Stalker coupled with core 2 from Tempest would allow me to use DEX for to hit and for damage with scimitars. According to my tool tips, scimitars are still using STR for damage. I was wondering if this is working as intended? Will taking the core 3(Graceful Death) from Tempest at lvl6 make a difference? For that matter, excluding rapiers, is there a reason to take Weapon Finesse/Improved Weapon Finesse if you are using the Tempest tree? It would seem that the first 3 Tempest cores would get you everything that Weapon Finesse/Improved Weapon Finesse would(again, excluding rapiers). Just wondering what I am missing...

Please ignore the typo in the title...posting shouldn't be done at work.

mna
09-10-2013, 06:31 PM
It may be another display issue, but (according to descriptions) I expected that Improved Weapon Finesse from Deep Woods Stalker coupled with core 2 from Tempest would allow me to use DEX for to hit and for damage with scimitars. According to my tool tips, scimitars are still using STR for damage. I was wondering if this is working as intended? Will taking the core 3(Graceful Death) from Tempest at lvl6 make a difference? For that matter, excluding rapiers, is there a reason to take Weapon Finesse/Improved Weapon Finesse if you are using the Tempest tree? It would seem that the first 3 Tempest cores would get you everything that Weapon Finesse/Improved Weapon Finesse would(again, excluding rapiers). Just wondering what I am missing...


I suppose it could be working "almost right" and still do that. I mean, Improved Finesse only says it works on Finesse weapons and not "whatever you can use dex for attack rolls with", right? And scimitar becoming a light weapon may not suffice to turn it into a Finesse weapon (even though it should, I think - is it really "all light weapons" or a list of weapon types, internally?). Sort of an inverse rapier.


That said, I have indeed seen such a display bug too.

Krelar
09-10-2013, 08:26 PM
I haven't tried it myself but are you looking at the tooltip of a weapon you actually have equipped or one that is just sitting in your inventory? I know some bonuses like this don't show up until you actually equip the weapon.

Torvaldsberg
09-10-2013, 09:34 PM
If the scimitar is in inventory, it shows STR for to hit and damage. Once it is equipped, it shows STR, DEX for to hit and STR for damage. The description for Improved Weapon Finesse( You can use your Dexterity modifier for damage when wielding melee weapons with which you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit.) seems to indicate that as soon as scimitars are able to use DEX for to hit, they should also be using it for damage. I just can' decide if it is a bug, a wording issue with the descriptions, or a display bug with the tool-tips.

Krelar
09-10-2013, 10:47 PM
If the scimitar is in inventory, it shows STR for to hit and damage. Once it is equipped, it shows STR, DEX for to hit and STR for damage. The description for Improved Weapon Finesse( You can use your Dexterity modifier for damage when wielding melee weapons with which you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit.) seems to indicate that as soon as scimitars are able to use DEX for to hit, they should also be using it for damage. I just can' decide if it is a bug, a wording issue with the descriptions, or a display bug with the tool-tips.

It may have something to do with the order that the game checks things in. If it tries to apply the dex to damage first it would look at the weapon and think it doesn't qualify, then it changes the weapon to use dex to hit but does not recheck to see if it should get dex to damage now.

Torvaldsberg
09-11-2013, 10:00 AM
Definite possibility I suppose. I am curious to see if adding Graceful Death at Ranger(6) will resolve this or not. If not, I would definitely consider it a bug of some sort.

Torvaldsberg
09-11-2013, 09:18 PM
So I tested things a bit more with a bank mule. It seems, that in order to get DEX for damage with scimitars, you will need to be a level 6 Ranger and take Graceful Death. This will also affect all other light weapons, so unless you want DEX for damage on rapiers, you do not actually need Improved Weapon Finesse. Furthermore, if you do not plan on using rapiers at all, you can also drop Weapon Finesse from your feats. The first 3 Tempest cores give you pseudo-Finesse and Improved Finesse. The only difference is that it is with scimitars instead of rapiers.

The only other curve I could see would be if Improved Weapon Finesse would allow you to use DEX to damage for non-typical weapons that specify DEX for to hit(Axe of the Unseen Blow, Whirlwind, etc). From the description, I would not be surprised if it did work.

Torvaldsberg
09-12-2013, 12:17 PM
I guess my last question is: Are there enough decent rapiers to justify burning a feat for Weapon Finesse/Improved Weapon Finesse or would it be better to ignore rapiers and use the feat for something else?

Rathic
09-12-2013, 05:36 PM
I guess my last question is: Are there enough decent rapiers to justify burning a feat for Weapon Finesse/Improved Weapon Finesse or would it be better to ignore rapiers and use the feat for something else?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Balizarde,_Protector_of_the_King

mna
09-13-2013, 01:34 PM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Balizarde,_Protector_of_the_King

...take Finesse at level 21 or 24?

mna
09-19-2013, 10:59 AM
So I tested things a bit more with a bank mule. It seems, that in order to get DEX for damage with scimitars, you will need to be a level 6 Ranger and take Graceful Death.

I tested things a bit with a toon that's going to go that route anyway... and managed to get DEX for damage with scimitars with only 3 levels of Ranger.

However, it also requires 3 levels of Rogue. Specifically, Dagger in the Back (2nd core) from Assassin, in addition to Tempest. And that toon does have Finesse (at the moment - I intend to get rid of it at 6 Ranger).

And since it works from THAT, I'm quite sure that it NOT working from DWS Improved Finesse is a bug. Would've made more sense if those were the other way 'round, really...




This will also affect all other light weapons, so unless you want DEX for damage on rapiers, you do not actually need Improved Weapon Finesse. Furthermore, if you do not plan on using rapiers at all, you can also drop Weapon Finesse from your feats. The first 3 Tempest cores give you pseudo-Finesse and Improved Finesse. The only difference is that it is with scimitars instead of rapiers.

The only other curve I could see would be if Improved Weapon Finesse would allow you to use DEX to damage for non-typical weapons that specify DEX for to hit(Axe of the Unseen Blow, Whirlwind, etc). From the description, I would not be surprised if it did work.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Imp Finesse from DWS did NOT work with those, and Dagger in the Back did...

Torvaldsberg
09-20-2013, 12:14 PM
Bug or typo then. Either they coded Improved Weapon Finesse wrongly, or whoever wrote the description wasn't on their toes. Probably the easiest fix would be to change the description to "Allows you to use your DEX modifier for damage with weapons affected by the Weapon Finesse feat." would be more clear. Scimitars aren't affected by Weapon Finesse, so them not being affected by Improved Weapon Finesse would make sense in that situation.

Still, it looks like there needs to be a change somewhere.

Mamba_Lev
09-23-2013, 05:42 AM
Dexterity to damage for Scimitars shows as working for me with the 2nd tier core ability from Tempest, don't know about DWS. SHould be apparent with the difference in damage i would have thought.