PDA

View Full Version : ML: 18 named weapons and items (and DT armor)



eachna_gislin
09-10-2013, 01:43 PM
ML 18 named weapons are languishing in a lot of ways They were fine as-is when the endgame was 20. Now that we have 28 (with 30 on the horizon) ML: 18 stuff effectively is only useful for two levels. Most level 18 named items look like they would actually be "epic" if not for the timing of when they were launched in game (when epic was only level 20). I can only guess intent, but it looks like the item devs were designing a few things meant to be "endgame" that you could get early, with a suitable grind.

For a while now even a simple lootgen +1 of Prefix and Suffix had doubled damage dice if it was on an epic base. Now, anything with an Enhancement value of +11 or higher is epic (with the same extra base damage). Looking at the ML:18 weapons they would probably be low epic level items with the sort of effects they have on them.

Admiring my snazzy (but only situation-ally useful) Divine Vengeances, something occurred to me. They count the number of levels on the toon who wields them. The base code is in place (with just a bit of tweaking) to come up with a system for weapons that has one set of stats if your toon is level 18-19, and different stats if you're 20 or higher.

For ML: 18 weapons, introduce a game mechanic that checks the count of heroic levels and if a toon is 18 or 19, it has the base heroic stats. Once they're 20 (or higher) it gets 2[w] just like epic weapons but no other changes or improvements. We'd just get the epic frame for the existing enchantments. Make us re-farm them to get this effect (no updates to the old weapons).

For ToD rings and belts, give us slots. For the rings, let us pay 5 epic tokens and throw them in the epic altar and get a green slot. That change will be "good enough" for most people and not make the old rings completely obsolete. But, on the actual new pulls of rings...give them purple slots. Yes, purple. Re-visit the mechanic of adding burst damage to unarmed attacks, but let the purple slot on the ToD rings apply to *all* attacks (ranged, melee, unarmed). If they slot in DR breakers, let them apply to the damage of the wielded weapons. And, casters could slot in spellpower.

DR breakers and elemental damage are not the end-all be-all Cool Powerz they used to be (we have artificers, all monks can take DR breaking enhancements, any weapon with a red slot can get a metallic augment or elemental augment). Casters would carry extra spell sticks in their teeth if they could, but augments don't have the sexiest spellpower numbers. In all cases, controlled red slots in accessory slots have their uses, and there's already thematic precedent with the burst effect on the old rings.

For Dragontouched armor (which is in a similar unloved position at ML:16) I think it could get a pretty simple boost from adding three augment slots, a green, a blue, and a yellow (along with and in line with the three rune slots). Change how the AC/PRR/MDB/etc is calculated. It will have a base level with no augments. I know the names of Plate armor best, so as an example, it might have the stats of Magecraft Plate with an additional +2 to AC, +5 to PRR, and +1 to MDB (just as an example for illustrative purposes). Then, if augments are slotted, the base level of the armor is in line with the closest plate for the AML of the augments. So if you slot in an AML: 24 augment, you get the base stats of Planeforged Plate, with the same +2 to AC, +5 to PRR, and +1 to MDB. It won't be absolutely must-have at end game, but it will have its place for people who are interested in building their own gear. I wouldn't update it automatically but neither would I expect that people completely re-farm every rune on any existing suits. I'd suggest a compromise of having to run the Stealer of Souls at least once and then getting the option of buying an upgrade essence from Vorace to add the augment slots and reset the base stats.

In all three cases, it would push the utility well past 20 without making them absolutely necessary at endgame. Down the road, if the devs decided to epic Tower of Despair, the Stealer of Souls, or the Subterranean raids, they could give the items inside the New New Epic treatment, giving us a reason to farm them all over again.

Edit: With the new level 28 level cap and 30 on the horizon, and storage problems (limitations in the database on how much 'stuff' each toon can have) future updates should be done with smaller, discrete level ranges of utility for gear. Any item should strongly useful for around 5 levels and then slowly taper off in usefulness. That doesn't mean that EVERY item should be useful or that it should follow a strict 1-5, 6-10 structure. But if you're going to go to the effort of grinding something out you should get more than 2 levels of utility out of it.

voodoogroves
09-11-2013, 09:47 AM
ML 18 named weapons are languishing in a lot of ways They were fine as-is when the endgame was 20. Now that we have 28 (with 30 on the horizon) ML: 18 stuff effectively is only useful for two levels. Most level 18 named items look like they would actually be "epic" if not for the timing of when they were launched in game (when epic was only level 20). I can only guess intent, but it looks like the item devs were designing a few things meant to be "endgame" that you could get early, with a suitable grind.

For a while now even a simple lootgen +1 of Prefix and Suffix had doubled damage dice if it was on an epic base. Now, anything with an Enhancement value of +11 or higher is epic (with the same extra base damage). Looking at the ML:18 weapons they would probably be low epic level items with the sort of effects they have on them.

Admiring my snazzy (but only situation-ally useful) Divine Vengeances, something occurred to me. They count the number of levels on the toon who wields them. The base code is in place (with just a bit of tweaking) to come up with a system for weapons that has one set of stats if your toon is level 18-19, and different stats if you're 20 or higher.

For ML: 18 weapons, introduce a game mechanic that checks the count of heroic levels and if a toon is 18 or 19, it has the base heroic stats. Once they're 20 (or higher) it gets 2[w] just like epic weapons but no other changes or improvements. We'd just get the epic frame for the existing enchantments. Make us re-farm them to get this effect (no updates to the old weapons).

For ToD rings and belts, give us slots. For the rings, let us pay 5 epic tokens and throw them in the epic altar and get a green slot. That change will be "good enough" for most people and not make the old rings completely obsolete. But, on the actual new pulls of rings...give them purple slots. Yes, purple. Re-visit the mechanic of adding burst damage to unarmed attacks, but let the purple slot on the ToD rings apply to *all* attacks (ranged, melee, unarmed). If they slot in DR breakers, let them apply to the damage of the wielded weapons. And, casters could slot in spellpower.

DR breakers and elemental damage are not the end-all be-all Cool Powerz they used to be (we have artificers, all monks can take DR breaking enhancements, any weapon with a red slot can get a metallic augment or elemental augment). Casters would carry extra spell sticks in their teeth if they could, but augments don't have the sexiest spellpower numbers. In all cases, controlled red slots in accessory slots have their uses, and there's already thematic precedent with the burst effect on the old rings.

For Dragontouched armor (which is in a similar unloved position at ML:16) I think it could get a pretty simple boost from adding three augment slots, a green, a blue, and a yellow (along with and in line with the three rune slots). Change how the AC/PRR/MDB/etc is calculated. It will have a base level with no augments. I know the names of Plate armor best, so as an example, it might have the stats of Magecraft Plate with an additional +2 to AC, +5 to PRR, and +1 to MDB (just as an example for illustrative purposes). Then, if augments are slotted, the base level of the armor is in line with the closest plate for the AML of the augments. So if you slot in an AML: 24 augment, you get the base stats of Planeforged Plate, with the same +2 to AC, +5 to PRR, and +1 to MDB. It won't be absolutely must-have at end game, but it will have its place for people who are interested in building their own gear. I wouldn't update it automatically but neither would I expect that people completely re-farm every rune on any existing suits. I'd suggest a compromise of having to run the Stealer of Souls at least once and then getting the option of buying an upgrade essence from Vorace to add the augment slots and reset the base stats.

In all three cases, it would push the utility well past 20 without making them absolutely necessary at endgame. Down the road, if the devs decided to epic Tower of Despair, the Stealer of Souls, or the Subterranean raids, they could give the items inside the New New Epic treatment, giving us a reason to farm them all over again.

Edit: With the new level 28 level cap and 30 on the horizon, and storage problems (limitations in the database on how much 'stuff' each toon can have) future updates should be done with smaller, discrete level ranges of utility for gear. Any item should strongly useful for around 5 levels and then slowly taper off in usefulness. That doesn't mean that EVERY item should be useful or that it should follow a strict 1-5, 6-10 structure. But if you're going to go to the effort of grinding something out you should get more than 2 levels of utility out of it.

Would totally be fine w/ an update to the HoX / VoD / Mindsunder / DT items. Add a slot, update their bonuses to something relevant (+3 to DCs instead of +2, whatever)