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RS-Makk
09-07-2013, 08:36 AM
I'm new to monk and see a few enhancements that refer to ninja poison. How does it work? (What's the damage, can it be applied more than once, etc)

Thanks

Therigar
09-07-2013, 09:32 AM
For ninja poison to work you have 2 options. First is as part of your attacks. For that to work you must be doing piercing or slashing damage. Note that with handwraps the only way to get this effect is with Ivy Wraps. Other items that are supposed to give unarmed piercing or slashing damage are not currently working with ninja poison (ie, brawling gloves, epic feat vorpal strike, etc.). You could always use short swords. At epic levels this might be a worthwhile discussion, especially if a player has some of the high end epic weapons. Note that Celestia should not proc the ninja poison because its damage is light damage and not piercing.

The second way to make the poison work is to use the ninja spy core ability to cast poison darts. This is a spell-like attack that affects mobs that are directly in front of you. The range is extremely short.

The attack damage from ninja poison seems to be an on hit effect. I can't tell from the numbers rolling on the screen if it is stacking or does damage over time. I've been operating on the assumption that it does not.

The poison darts do cause damage over time. I can observe the poison ticking off with the darts. On top of that, the darts often hit multiple times.

I'm not sure that the damage done makes it worth interrupting the attack chain in order to use the ability.

RS-Makk
09-07-2013, 11:13 AM
Thanks

What in really trying to understand is what it is when wielding weapons. I'm considering a kensai monk build where I can use my focus weapon as a monk weapon. In trying to determine my level splits, and what trade-offs I have. One would be to forego kensai power surge, but (among other goodies) I get 'Sting of the Ninja'. It says you apply a stack of ninja poison with each critical hit. I'm tying to understand what the damage is that each of those stacks would provide.

Also, given its a stance... Is it a weapon stance I can have active while power attack is on? How about with monk stances (earth)?

Therigar
09-07-2013, 11:34 AM
Is it a weapon stance I can have active while power attack is on? How about with monk stances (earth)?

I don't have answers to all your questions, apologies. But, it is a stance that I have on at the same time as I have earth stance on and combat expertise. My assumption would be that you could have power attack on (instead of CE) if that was what you wanted.

I'm not running any fighter levels so don't know if the benefit is enough to justify skipping power surge.

Missing_Minds
09-07-2013, 11:41 AM
Note that with handwraps the only way to get this effect is with Ivy Wraps.
I haven't tried, but I bet scorching handwraps would work as well.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Scorching_Wraps

Therigar
09-07-2013, 11:45 AM
You could be right. I don't have a pair and can't be bothered to farm/get them to test. But, might be correct.

Missing_Minds
09-07-2013, 11:46 AM
It says you apply a stack of ninja poison with each critical hit. I'm tying to understand what the damage is that each of those stacks would provide.

Also, given its a stance... Is it a weapon stance I can have active while power attack is on? How about with monk stances (earth)?
As a "stack" it sort of means... something like this. poison damage * (invisible stack ratio * stack number) = total poison damage.

So if you kill mobs quickly you won't have high stacking poison damage. BUT, it does work on red named as well so that is where you could get higher value stacks.

You I would think you could have this stance on at the same time as monk stance and power attack. The monk stance deff.

What I don't know if Venom Blades (assassin and drow) will stack with Sting of the Ninja.

Oh yeah, I also saw the Sting work with throwing stars. Go figure.

threefeetunder
09-07-2013, 01:48 PM
Each stack does 1d4 poison damage per tick (every 2 seconds) and -5% poison vulnerability. It can stack up to 20 times, where it does 20d4 and -100% poison vulnerability (so an effective 40d4 poison damage per tick).

It can be used with any weapon as long as it's either slashing or piercing, and that you're centered with said weapon.
Aka, on a pure monk, you'd be limited to very specific handwraps, shortswords, shurikens, bows if you have Zen Archery, longswords if you have Whirling Steel Strike, or if you have 8 levels of fighter and dip in the kensei tree and get the tier 5 ability One With the Blade, any melee weapon that's part of your kensei focus and that does slashing or piercing damage.

The only stance you can't use it with is Lighting the Candle from Henshin Mystic tree AFAIK.

Trash generally dies too quickly for it to stack up, but in long boss fights, as long as said boss is not immune to poison or something, the damage is quite good once you stack it up.

RS-Makk
09-07-2013, 02:25 PM
Thanks all for all the insight into this. Much appreciated.


Each stack does 1d4 poison damage per tick (every 2 seconds) and -5% poison vulnerability. It can stack up to 20 times, where it does 20d4 and -100% poison vulnerability (so an effective 40d4 poison damage per tick). .

So it's a DOT effect? Do you know how many ticks (or how long) each one lasts?

threefeetunder
09-07-2013, 04:52 PM
So it's a DOT effect? Do you know how many ticks (or how long) each one lasts?

15 seconds, extra stacks refresh the duration.
Also made a mistake earlier, it ticks every 3 seconds, not every 2 (just double checked).

thegreatneil
09-07-2013, 09:02 PM
What I don't know if Venom Blades (assassin and drow) will stack with Sting of the Ninja.



Tested, you can have both stances active at the same time.

Todkaninchen
09-10-2013, 04:16 PM
It can be used with any weapon as long as it's either slashing or piercing, and that you're centered with said weapon.
Aka, on a pure monk, you'd be limited to very specific handwraps, shortswords, shurikens, bows if you have Zen Archery, longswords if you have Whirling Steel Strike, or if you have 8 levels of fighter and dip in the kensei tree and get the tier 5 ability One With the Blade, any melee weapon that's part of your kensei focus and that does slashing or piercing damage.


Also you can use:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Chieftain%27s_Spear
http://ddowiki.com/page/Rahl%27s_Might
http://ddowiki.com/page/Sireth
http://ddowiki.com/page/Dreampiercer

All of which are Quarterstaves with piercing or slashing damage. Of course, one's level 4, one's level 18, and 2 are epic...

(They also--at least the Rahl's Might, Chieftain's Spear, I can't test for it--use the DEX to hit and DEX to damage from Ninja Spy 2... Chieftain's Spear had that ability anyway...)

TeacherSyn
09-12-2013, 03:26 PM
To add a bit,

Ninja Poison is nasty stuff, causing damage going out as well as going in. Once you poison something using Poisoned Soul or related effects, a Ninja can use their Poison Exploit ability to forcibly remove the poison for 1d20 or more per stack.

cdr
09-12-2013, 06:21 PM
Ninja Poison is awesome for kensai/ninja spy. Big passive DPS boost for just 2AP, and it also increases the damage of other people in the group using poison - shiradi poison dots, archers with Quiver of Poison.

RS-Makk
09-12-2013, 06:28 PM
I'm trying to figure out the trade between going 12 Fighter / 6 Ranger / 2 Monk, or 8 / 6 / 6. Basically, the DPS trade off is giving up Power Surge (also a utility tradeoff since as a result I lose 4 DC on Stunning Blow) and gaining Ninja Poison (as well as Shadow Veil and additional sneak attack + perhaps No Mercy.. which seems nice). Very much undecided here but I wanted to get a sense of what I got with Ninja Poison.