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maddong
09-02-2013, 10:14 PM
Given how ranged archery attacks work with repeaters (triple arrow of slaying which I'm assuming also applies to adrenaline) I was thinking a repeater user could compete with a 10k stars build. Given that artificers get the rune arm bonus damage on their shots, rune arm firing while repeating, and int to damage....

I was thinking:
Elf Artificer 20
S 12 (8 if 32 point build)
D 18 (+1 tome for IPS, +3 tome for combat archery)
C 12
I 18 + level ups
W 8
C 8
Feats:
1 mental toughness (for rune arm crit)
3 precision
4 point blank shot
6 quicken
8 rapid shot
9 manyshot
12 improved mental toughness
12 improved critical ranged
15 spell focus evocation
16 precise shot
18 greater spell focus evocation
20 improved precise shot

Enhancements:
Arcane Archer (32) for arrow of slaying
Elf (18) for grace (dex to damage for longbows for use with manyshot)
Battle Engineer (24) for endless fusillade
Arcanotechnician (3) for wand & scroll mastery

I'm looking for constructive criticism such as changes to enhancements/feats. Maybe it is too glass canonish compared to a 10k stars build? Maybe I would be better off adding some other class levels?

droid327
09-02-2013, 10:58 PM
You're starting a thought experiment I started about a month ago, this is where I ended up with it:

-Repeaters put out as many shots over 2 mins as an archer using Manyshot on cooldown. A Monkcher with MS and 10KS can still do more, but that obviously is a very specific build

-Repeaters do triple any special weapon attacks: Adrenaline, Sniper Shot, Inferno, Slaying Arrows, etc. However, the AA attacks are all too costly to really include them in a regular attack rotation. 6 SP per Inferno, 25 per Slaying Arrow (without the benefit of temp SP that a true AA gets) adds up fast if that's your main source of DPS. And its really expensive, AP-wise, if you're just using them situationally.

That's why I prefer DWS attacks instead...specifically Sniper Shot, which is Adrenaline for Heroic content. And then you can stick Adrenaline on top of it, for Epic content. 2500 damage x3, every 20 seconds, its sick.

-Runearm imbue is nice, but doesn't really count for much by the time you hit Epic. Correlatively, INT-to-dmg is nice, but Archers have STR-to-dmg already, and STR is more buffable than INT (although also more debuffable).

-You seem to have built a hybrid archer-repeater, is that right, with Manyshot+Grace? I think you're better off just sticking with one dmg stat, rather than trying to max both INT and DEX. Especially if you drop Manyshot in favor of Insightful Reflexes, which every Arti should have. Most AA skills wont work with Repeaters (stances etc.) and most Arti buffs wont work with longbows (only xbows and 1h melee weapons).

All you get for adding Manyshot is 40 arrows every 2 minutes (20 seconds * 2 bonus shots per volley / 1 volley per second). Remember pure Artis are a 15 BAB class, so unless you're running Tensers constantly, you're only going to get 3 shots per Manyshot volley, not 4. That's only an improvement of 30 arrows over what you'd get using a Repeater for that same 20 seconds (60 total rounds fired vs. 30). And your special attacks would be tripled, same as they would with a Repeater.

Even if you do count on Tensers for 20 BAB, and so a 4-attack Manyshot volley, you can only get one Slaying Arrow off per Manyshot since the cooldown is so long. That's an awful lot of investment (AP, gear, effort switching) for a rather small actual benefit.

-Here's my take on a fully-invested Repeater Arti:

14 Arti/6 Rgr WF (for self heals and more Con/HPs and Attach Weapons)

Max INT, enough Dex for IPS, rest in CON, maybe 12 STR base.

Feats (in no particular order): PBS, IC:Ranged, Ins. Reflex, SF: Evo, GSF: Evo, Emp, Max, Quicken, IPS, and one more what-have-you (Dodge, perhaps?). You get all your others autogranted through either Ranger or Arti.

Enhancments: DWS enough for Sniper Shot, Thrill of the Hunt 3/3, and Merciful Shot 1/1 (with just 1 in all its prereqs). Racial for HPs. BE for Fusillade, and the first two tiers of Runearm enhancements. I only bother with my runearm when I'm standing still, and all the top 3 tiers of RA enhancements give you is mobility, not DPS.

I had a level of Druid for Beguile, but since that's getting nerfed I might change my mind about that. You could, I suppose, also go Human with the build instead and get a +20% damage boost that stacks with Fusillade, rely on your Serious Admixture for self heals, with human Improved Heal, +75 Positive from DWS, and maybe pick up that level of Druid after all for Emp Heal as your final Feat, and just take Beguile for what its still good for.

chanw4
09-13-2013, 01:00 PM
Given how ranged archery attacks work with repeaters (triple arrow of slaying which I'm assuming also applies to adrenaline) I was thinking a repeater user could compete with a 10k stars build. Given that artificers get the rune arm bonus damage on their shots, rune arm firing while repeating, and int to damage....

I was thinking:
Elf Artificer 20
S 12 (8 if 32 point build)
D 18 (+1 tome for IPS, +3 tome for combat archery)
C 12
I 18 + level ups
W 8
C 8
Feats:
1 mental toughness (for rune arm crit)
3 precision
4 point blank shot
6 quicken
8 rapid shot
9 manyshot
12 improved mental toughness
12 improved critical ranged
15 spell focus evocation
16 precise shot
18 greater spell focus evocation
20 improved precise shot

Enhancements:
Arcane Archer (32) for arrow of slaying
Elf (18) for grace (dex to damage for longbows for use with manyshot)
Battle Engineer (24) for endless fusillade
Arcanotechnician (3) for wand & scroll mastery

I'm looking for constructive criticism such as changes to enhancements/feats. Maybe it is too glass canonish compared to a 10k stars build? Maybe I would be better off adding some other class levels?

Manyshot does not work with repeaters or any xbow. 10K stars NOT too. Unless you're thinking of using bow while endless is on cooldown.

Chai
09-13-2013, 02:07 PM
This makes perfect sense now that the last component is in place - elf dex to damage with bow. A dex/int arty can both use repeaters and longbows. Elf gets prof with bows as well.

This is something Ive been thinking of for a while, but never did until recently.

unbongwah
09-13-2013, 02:44 PM
This makes perfect sense now that the last component is in place - elf dex to damage with bow. A dex/int arty can both use repeaters and longbows. Elf gets prof with bows as well.
The drawback to this approach is the Doubleshot penalty from Manyshot, which I presume will carry over to repeaters. :( Has anyone tested this, though?

maddong
09-13-2013, 10:15 PM
I was just trying to think of a possible archer build without 10k stars and this was the only viable way to have about the same ranged damage output in my mind.

Your doubleshot isn't going to mean anything on a repeater build anyway since it is divided by 3.

The triple slaying arrow seems nice.