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Tolero
08-29-2013, 04:45 PM
Update: As of Update 19 Patch 2, raid completion counters have returned to their original state, and now once again track Heroic and Epic completions as one. The /quest completions command now reflects this change.

We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.

We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

Havok.cry
08-29-2013, 07:57 PM
This is another reason why you guys should make us aware of, and let us test things for you (you as in turbine, not you specifically Tolero :) ), before you send them live.

BOgre
08-29-2013, 08:28 PM
We are currently investigating anomalies in raid completion counts. We will provide more information as soon as it is available. Thanks for your patience!

This is a tech change at this point, but offering Heroic loot for heroic 20th completion lists and epic loot for Epic 20th completion lists is one of the reasons this change was made. Whether that becomes something offered in older raids, or is something that comes with future raids, will ultimately depend on various developmental decisions.
This is an all time 1st for Turbine. They implement a change in preparation for a feature that may or may not ever see the light of day, and in doing so give birth to a new bug... I mean, usually you guys release new bugs WITH new features, this time you've decided to skip the feature altogether and just release the bug on its own? Genius!

http://gabrielchapman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/zoolander-mugatu-crazy-pills.jpg

LVSammy
08-29-2013, 11:34 PM
Just did my 20ths for Caught in the Web and Fall of Truth on 2 different toons after seeing that the 20th completions were fixed and did get named loot. However, recieved skill tome upgrades (+3-4) instead of stat tomes on most and on one I received a +3 to +4 stat tome upgrade when it should have been a pure +4 or a +4 to +5 upgrade.... Very disappointed. Please will you let me know if this is an intentional change or yet another mishap. If this was intended, will you also explain... what the hell were you thinking? Thank you. :-)

Tolero
08-30-2013, 01:07 PM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. Patch was targetting the totals on it and Fall of Truth to correct it to the proper number. While Fall is up to date, Caught in the Web's numbers got clobbered by Fall of Truth (part of the reason you'll see a negative number in heroic). We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected as there is no way for us or the system to distinguish whether those pre-MOTU runs were Epic or not (back then everything in the back end was just marking off as the same thing in the data).
- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected. It has no impact on reward lists or loot, and is basically display/cosmetic in nature.

We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

danotmano1998
08-30-2013, 01:21 PM
And raid timers?
Epic versus Heroic?

Are they going to be split as well?

Drwaz99
08-30-2013, 01:24 PM
So people will be SOL on a bunch of completions because you wanted to introduce a system that, to us, may or may not be used in the future? And the ones your willing to fix will be fixed at a date TBD *String table error*.... So if we want our raids to count and be sure that they will count correctly we just wait. Seriously? Is Dr. Evil now calling the shots now? You realize that for the most part raiding in now dead until a date TBD..right?

The decision making process your using now is seriously questionable.

Qaliya
08-30-2013, 01:27 PM
I spent a bunch of time defending Turbine about this patch yesterday, and this has even me scratching my head.

With respect, was it really a great idea to try to roll out a new system as part of a patch, especially one that was hurried because of a holiday weekend?

cave_diver
08-30-2013, 01:44 PM
UPDATE: While Fall is up to date, Caught in the Web's numbers got clobbered by Fall of Truth (part of the reason you'll see a negative number in heroic). We will address this error in an upcoming patch.




So I have a question, on one of my toons I was at 38 completions of CITW looking forward to #40 to get the final weapon I was looking for, post update I am now at 9 heroic/28 epic. I now run 3+ citw's and turbine fixes it in an upcoming patch will I be at 41+ completions and be borked out of my 40th?

Tolero
08-30-2013, 02:02 PM
So I have a question, on one of my toons I was at 38 completions of CITW looking forward to #40 to get the final weapon I was looking for, post update I am now at 9 heroic/28 epic. I now run 3+ citw's and turbine fixes it in an upcoming patch will I be at 41+ completions and be borked out of my 40th?

The GMs are working to help Caught in the Web runners who are in this predicament between now and when the patch is applied so that you get the list, and then when patch comes it goes to the right total number to avoid getting "skipped".

Bilger
08-30-2013, 02:08 PM
So I have a question, on one of my toons I was at 38 completions of CITW looking forward to #40 to get the final weapon I was looking for, post update I am now at 9 heroic/28 epic. I now run 3+ citw's and turbine fixes it in an upcoming patch will I be at 41+ completions and be borked out of my 40th?

That's what I would like to know seriously wasn't explained well if counter says 14 and you know you where at 18 will you get your 20 in 2 runs or 6. Or if you do 6 thinking you have 14 and gets patched and you end up over 20 do you lose your 20th reward? Or could it be just counting the actual number and just displayed wrong?

A better explanation would be appreciated highly and ty.

darksol23
08-30-2013, 02:14 PM
The GMs are working to help Caught in the Web runners who are in this predicament between now and when the patch is applied so that you get the list, and then when patch comes it goes to the right total number to avoid getting "skipped".

So... For those of us who were close to a milestone run... Are we supposed to contact a GM before each run to ask what run we're on, and then ask them do "something special" if we're on the 20/40/60/x? If so, that's going to become very tedious over a long weekend. Or are they going automatically make any completions you run "not count" with the next patch without having to contact a GM? More detailed instructions please.


UPDATE
We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

No need to sugar coat it, you've gone way beyond the realm of "confusion" and into the "negatively affecting" zone.

Tolero
08-30-2013, 02:30 PM
So... For those of us who were close to a milestone run... Are we supposed to contact a GM before each run to ask what run we're on, and then ask them do "something special" if we're on the 20/40/60/x? If so, that's going to become very tedious over a long weekend. Or are they going automatically make any completions you run "not count" with the next patch without having to contact a GM? More detailed instructions please.

In the case of Caught in the Web, you can actually determine how close you are to a milestone run without needing to consult a GM by using the / command still. Because Fall of Truth completions clobbered both fields, the difference between the two shows what Caught in the Web run you're on. Example: If it's showing CitW heroic -5 / epic 24, you're at 19 epic.

Retrodark
08-30-2013, 02:38 PM
The GMs are working to help Caught in the Web runners who are in this predicament between now and when the patch is applied so that you get the list, and then when patch comes it goes to the right total number to avoid getting "skipped".

I would suggest that the very next time anyone completes CITW after the patch is put out that they get the 20th end rewards. If this means they have run it less than 20 times, oh well, payment for the mistake made. Or, at least make it so that if you have 20+ runs, you get the end rewards, even if it is the 21st run.

Kynestra
08-30-2013, 02:40 PM
this time you've decided to skip the feature altogether[/IMG]

You're wrong. Offering Epic rewards for 20 Epic completions _IS_ a new feature. The mixup in completions from the new implementation is merely an unlisted Fringe Benefit. You should be thankful for the new fodder for a slew of up-and-coming forum complaints, you didn't have to pay for it.

*Edit* The crazy pills are free, too.

WarReaver2010
08-30-2013, 02:40 PM
UPDATE: - Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
If I am reading this correctly, it says that my count should be correct for any VON raids I've run since MOTU came out? If that's so, then I respectfully disagree. My count after the patch showed VON Heroic 9 / EPIC 1, but I have definitely run more than 1 epic VON this year, so well after MOTU came out (not sure when I ran the heroic completion/s)

karl_k0ch
08-30-2013, 02:48 PM
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.

For at least two of my toons, the /quest completions lists a huge number of heroic completions of Vault of Night and Against the Demon Queen although I completed most of them between U14 and U19 on epic difficulty. Should I bug report this or will this be fixed in the upcoming patch?

Edit: Ninja'd by someone who has the same problem. :D

Thar
08-30-2013, 02:48 PM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. Patch was targetting the totals on it and Fall of Truth to correct it to the proper number. While Fall is up to date, Caught in the Web's numbers got clobbered by Fall of Truth (part of the reason you'll see a negative number in heroic). We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected as there is no way for us or the system to distinguish whether those pre-MOTU runs were Epic or not (back then everything in the back end was just marking off as the same thing in the data).
- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected. It has no impact on reward lists or loot, and is basically display/cosmetic in nature.

We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

This is another example of stop messing with old code and only build new stuff. now people are annoyed that they would have to run X heroic quests to get the same end reward missing out on shards, xp, etc. Its hard enough to get a raid together for old raids now as it is, but to split the counters now makes people need heroric or epic. Can you all think about what impact changes have to the game prior to making a BIG change like this in the future? sigh...

bazooka99
08-30-2013, 03:02 PM
If I am reading this correctly, it says that my count should be correct for any VON raids I've run since MOTU came out? If that's so, then I respectfully disagree. My count after the patch showed VON Heroic 9 / EPIC 1, but I have definitely run more than 1 epic VON this year, so well after MOTU came out (not sure when I ran the heroic completion/s)

This. My toon TRed after MoTU, yet it shows that I have 16 heroic and 1 epic VoN completion, and I can't recall the last Heroic VoN I ran this life (if at all). Same for ADQ: it shows me at 12 heroic completions and 0 epic (and I've never run Heroic ADQ this life). Something is definitely wrong, and my guess is that it's counting raid completions before Update 19.1 as heroic.

Mystera
08-30-2013, 03:08 PM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.



This is flat out WRONG, you need a better QA team. I have been TRing for the past 2.5 years, and didn't even play MOTU when it came out. I finally did my last TR at the beginning of this year and starting running raids with my current TR a few months ago. ALL my ADQ runs have been on EN/EH/EE yet my counter says the following:
Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 16 / Epic : 0
All these runs were done in between the MOTU and Shadowfell packs on epic yet are reported as heroic, so your statement above is false. Checked with my brother last night who is in my same shoes, has been TRing until early this year and ran all the Epic DQ raids with me. His counter shows Heroic 19 / Epic 0, and he was waiting to run his 20th epic run until this 20th raid loot issue got fixed. He ran the raid last night for his 20th time on epic and got ZERO named items. To add insult to injury I ran EH CITW with him after that and he pulled the Twilight staff which wasn't even upgraded even though it was an EH run.

Way to break something that wasn't broken, and way to misdiagnose the problem and offer no fix.

EDIT ONE: same problem with VON which shows The Vault of Night : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 1. I started running that only in the last two months and I have never run it on heroic.

EDIT TWO: your system is still borked, since I ran ADQ EH last night and it was counted as a heroic run.

ishr
08-30-2013, 03:15 PM
This is another reason why you guys should make us aware of, and let us test things for you (you as in turbine, not you specifically Tolero :) ), before you send them live.

totally agree with this. stop trying to sneak stuff in. transparency doesn't hurt anyone, unless you're not doing you're job.

darksol23
08-30-2013, 03:21 PM
In the case of Caught in the Web, you can actually determine how close you are to a milestone run without needing to consult a GM by using the / command still. Because Fall of Truth completions clobbered both fields, the difference between the two shows what Caught in the Web run you're on. Example: If it's showing CitW heroic -5 / epic 24, you're at 19 epic.

Thanks for the quick reply! But something still doesn't make sense. Could you define how exactly FoT "clobbered" CitW completion counts. My CitW completion counts are both positive for heroic and epic.

You said "difference" but the math looks like you meant "sum" using those numbers in the example (the FoT counter wasn't shown in the example). The difference would be 29 or -29 depending on how the equation was written (-5 - 24 = -29 or 24 - -5 = 29). And the sum is 19 (-5 + 24 = 19). So I guess I'm still confused...

So currently if my character looks like this (which it does):

Fot: Heroic 0 / Epic 14
CitW: Heroic 15 / Epic 16

Does that mean I'm at 31 completions or 30? Or something else? I'm positive I am at least at 30 CitW completions so this seems about right. Therefore regardless, I should be able to run up to 8 CitW's without needing to call a GM or grab a jar of Vaseline? :)

Bilger
08-30-2013, 03:45 PM
So no matter what we are stuck with this till next update. So if not even sure on counter numbers seems to me just don't run the character in raids if believe a 20 counter is close. The numbers are so screwy I haven't clue my CITW counters for my archer (16-18 area) and geuss char is set aside till this is fixed so don't miss or get shafted out of a 20 and chance at my Pinion.

Shouldn't have to not run something because a borked system was put in place, but that is just what will have to do.

Zarquine
08-30-2013, 04:14 PM
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.


This is complete and utter ********! I have TRed AFTER MotU and have run VON 5 on Heroic Normal or Heroic Hard and VON6 EXCLUSIVELY on Heroic Hard difficulty since then, even spend some TP on Raid Bypass Timers to get some completions!

MY EPIC RUNS "THAT OCURRED BETWEEN MOTU AND SHADOWFELL" DON'T SHOW UP CORECTLY!

I feel very, very betrayed and don't think that this game deserves another cent of my money although I really, really like it.

So, you insert a new game mechanic that has absolutely no benefit for the players and even robs tem of their completions and you are not willing to do anything about it and tell me basically to eff myself. This is absolutely NOT correct.

Chaimberland
08-30-2013, 04:24 PM
And raid timers?
Epic versus Heroic?

Are they going to be split as well?

Very good question.

Qaliya
08-30-2013, 04:29 PM
This has no effect on me personally, but I really feel for players who have had their completion counts messed up.

It's absolutely baffling to me why they did this, and especially, why they did it now.

EllisDee37
08-30-2013, 04:36 PM
You're wrong. Offering Epic rewards for 20 Epic completions _IS_ a new feature.I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic and busting turbine's stones, but on the off chance you're serious: There are no epic reward lists for 20 epic completions. They still give heroic 20th lists for raids that have both heroic and epic versions. The devs have said that they "may, at some point in the future" create epic 20th lists for those raids.

boz666
08-30-2013, 04:43 PM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

Sorry Tolero, but I respectfully disagree with your findings. Epic raid completions that were done under the "new" epic system are not being counted correctly.

Since MotU was released my Arti has run over 20 Epic VONs, yet his raid counter is "The Vault of Night : Heroic: 38 / Epic : 1"

Please investigate further.

zero32483
08-30-2013, 05:14 PM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.

We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.


Ok, Turbine, I never had a level 20 character before MotU. I've only advancd to twenty and past in the last couple months with my primary character. A character that was created right after MotU's release with vet status 7, leveled to 8, promptly leveled to 16 with a Stone of experience, and who has slowly worked up the remaining 9 levels to 25 weeks before Shadowfell's release. So explain how I'm having THIS issue.

Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 7 / Epic : 0
The Vault of Night : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 1
Caught in the Web : Heroic: 4 / Epic : 0

I NEVER ran ADQ before hitting epic levels and ALL my ADQ raid runs have been on Epic Normal or above. (I HAVE completed the pre-raid on Heroic to speed flag for a group that was ready for the raid.) Likewise with the Vault of Night. The final problem with my quest completions...HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE to HAVE Heroic Caught in the Web completions?!?!?!? As far as Fall of Truth goes, I've not even attempted that yet.

I've always been one to rise up and defend Turbine, but this is just plain stupid, guys. C'mon, FIX it. And look into why Drow's Racial enhancement to SR isn't working right while you're at it, would ya?

Hutoth
08-30-2013, 05:27 PM
Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count.

This isn't correct - my main's current life only started 2 months ago, and I've only run epic VoN, yet my VoN counter lists all but 1 completion as heroic.

SirValentine
08-30-2013, 05:28 PM
Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.


This is absolutely NOT correct. Most of my Epic completions have vanished into Heroic-never-never-land, and it is NOT because they were pre-MotU. They were all AFTER my last TR, which was LONG AFTER MotU.

All my Epic Zawabi's Revenge completions, including the one AFTER THE PATCH last night, are showing as Heroic.

All but 1 of my Epic VoN completions are showing as Heroic.

All but 1 of my Epic Chronoscope completions are showing as Heroic.

All but 1 of my LoB completions are showing as Heroic, when it should be about half and half between Heroic and Epic.

And it's not even something as simple as "Epic Elite counts as Epic and Epic Normal/Hard wrongly count at Heroic", which was one theory I heard. I have a number of EE DQs, but still only Heroic in the completion counter list.

EllisDee37
08-30-2013, 05:36 PM
I have a number of EE DQs, but still only Heroic in the completion counter list.Same.

djl
08-30-2013, 05:42 PM
This is such a cluster**** that what they need to do is scrap the new system entirely, revert to the old system, and give everybody 1 free 20th list since it seems like actually fixing it and sorting out who has the right completions is too difficult.

garynash7070
08-30-2013, 06:09 PM
Tolero,

I TR'd my sorc Ciinder and was done with her TR two weeks before the update. Below is the list of my quest completions:

(Standard): Raid Completions:
Lines of Supply : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Tracker's Trap : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Breaking the Ranks : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
A Break In the Ice : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
What Goes Up : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Friends in Low Places : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
A Lesson in Deception : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Army of Shadow : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Through a Mirror Darkly : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Thrill of the Hunt : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Fall of Truth : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 7
Menace of the Underdark: The Queen of the Demonweb : Heroic: 4 / Epic : 0
Menace of the Underdark: City of Portals : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
Menace of the Underdark: The Darkening : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
Caught in the Web : Heroic: -5 / Epic : 7
The Lord of Blades : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Master Artificer : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Reign of Madness : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Harbinger of Madness : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Attack on Stormreach : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Chronoscope : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Last Stand : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
Into the Deep : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Claw of Vulkoor : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
Fathom the Depths : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Maleficent Cabal : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Sentinels of Stormreach : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Tide Turns : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Dreaming Dark : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Mindsunder : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Sharn Syndicate : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Devil You Know : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Stealer of Souls : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Prove Your Worth : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Legend of Two-Toed Tobias : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Ghost of a Chance : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
A Vision of Destruction : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Hound of Xoriat : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Thirteenth Eclipse : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Accursed Ascension : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Reaver's Fate : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Twilight Forge : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Vault of Night : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Return to Delera's Tomb : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Abandoned Excavation : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Archbishop's Daughter : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Cult of the Six : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Assault on Splinterskull : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Lost Seekers : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
The Seal of Shan-To-Kor : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Fire Caves : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Garl's Tomb : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Scoundrel's Run : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0

Ok the Supply lines were run on 8/28/13 EE shows Heroic, Trackers Trap was run 8/29/13 around 11pm CST on EH, shows heroic. And of course the ones that are from Eveningstar that can't be run on anything but Epic were before the update. I have played and paid for this game over 7 years and for Turbine to come out and state they will not be fixing some things is in terrible bad taste. It doesn't affect me as much as it does others, so I can take this in stride, but for the others: I feel sorry for them. You should too and do something about it by actually taking the time to correct the issues 100%. Fixing some things, while not addressing the others seems to me that the coders and technical team have either thrown their hands up, WB has said to you guys fix what you can and don't spend much time on it to minimize costs, or someone if not multiples of those in leadership at Turbine/WB doesn't care. Those in leadership at Turbine/WB should care for they are affecting their customers. Without customers they will not be getting paid their bonuses, nor will you guys have a job to do. I think the majority of you guys actually care about the game, the gamers(your customers), but whether you do or don't your jobs primarily is to ensure good customer service and maintain a desirable product for the consumers to spend their money on. I understand you guys have bosses, which have bosses, and so on but to ensure you have customers everyone from the customer service rep's to the President of Turbine/WB needs to take care of your customer base.

I have worked in Big companies and small ones. From mom and pop's to Multinational companies and the one thing that keeps them in business is #1 taking care of your customers #2 maximizing your profitability while keeping your attention to #1. Show everyone that is in the #1 category, which is you guys life's blood that you hear them and care about their time and money they spend playing what in most cases in their favorite game. Mine too!!! I again, know you guys care, but knowing and showing is different!

Stoner81
08-30-2013, 06:12 PM
Caught in the Web : Heroic: 31 / Epic : 4

According to my own records I have run this 35 times which at least matches up and I even had a 20th list some time ago which had the usual stuff in it as one would expect (no Pinion though :() so what the hell does this mean now where the hell am I up to? All my other raid counters seem to make sense as far as I can tell which is something at least, if you are going to introduce this then at least remove QUESTS from the RAID completion list ffs!

Stoner81.

djl
08-30-2013, 06:49 PM
So I just ran a Von5/6 on EH and checked the completions. It gave me 1 to Epic.

Problem is, they converted all of my previous Epic completions into Heroic, so essentially they STOLE 13 completions from me because I am obviously not going to be running heroic-leveled raids at cap.

This needs to be a TOP priority to fix this, or if they judge they cannot fix it in a timely manner some kind of compensation needs to be awarded to the players instead because many people (like me) were a few runs away from a list and now have to essentially start over. I am extremely disgusted with Turbine, and I know I am not alone in this.

xberto
08-30-2013, 07:14 PM
Just did my 20ths for Caught in the Web and Fall of Truth on 2 different toons after seeing that the 20th completions were fixed and did get named loot. However, recieved skill tome upgrades (+3-4) instead of stat tomes on most and on one I received a +3 to +4 stat tome upgrade when it should have been a pure +4 or a +4 to +5 upgrade.... Very disappointed. Please will you let me know if this is an intentional change or yet another mishap. If this was intended, will you also explain... what the hell were you thinking? Thank you. :-)
Good question, If I thought the draw was bugged on my first 20 completion toon, I would not have tried on my second.

thesnoman
08-30-2013, 08:07 PM
OK - so I just looked at my list and, like others, it's completely borked.

Good news - nothing's close to a multiple of 20 for me and I'll just take it in stride.


To add insult to injury I ran EH CITW with him after that and he pulled the Twilight staff which wasn't even upgraded even though it was an EH run.

Just an FYI - CiTW items are not upgraded based on the level you get them on - only FoT raid loot is upgraded by EH and EE.

CiTW Raid Loot requires 375 PDK favor to upgrade (which is really east to achieve now anyway)

BOgre
08-30-2013, 08:09 PM
You're wrong. Offering Epic rewards for 20 Epic completions _IS_ a new feature. The mixup in completions from the new implementation is merely an unlisted Fringe Benefit. You should be thankful for the new fodder for a slew of up-and-coming forum complaints, you didn't have to pay for it.

*Edit* The crazy pills are free, too.

Offering Epic rewards for 20 Epic completions _WOULD BE_ a new feature, _IF_ it was implemented. As of now, all we have is a split counter that doesn't work and is causing busted 20th's. The eRewards may or may not ever happen, either for old raids, or for new.

platismurf
08-30-2013, 08:21 PM
Just a thought, instead of just berrating the gms and game designers, why not try making constructive remarks instead. Yes some people are gonna lose some work with the new system. O well, it happens with every patch. there is gear that changed with the new patch, my old unique loot with deathward isnt as effective as new DW. new DW is still cool though. It would be nice if they could track perfectly what everyone ran, but the system was not designed to do that yet. Since i could claim all my runs were epic elite, and they cant prove they weren't, they are doing the best they can with the data they have.

It sounds to me like a lot more Epic runs will be done with the new system instead of gaming it by running 19 heroic 1 epic for final reward. Makes sense to me. It also lets them add cool new Epic end rewards knowing that those that get them will have earned them. So I'm gonna be the only one to say, nice work on the new system, it sounds like it has potential. hope you put in some cool Epic 20th runs rewards too, since it will be far harder to get them.

airbornerangers
08-30-2013, 08:29 PM
was thinking of a comeback to what should be the greatest mmo on the web!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thank you for making that decision easy turbine, as a former fanboi you sure do make me cringe at your decisions, hehehe





oh and ibtl

EllisDee37
08-30-2013, 08:30 PM
JIt sounds to me like a lot more Epic runs will be done with the new system instead of gaming it by running 19 heroic 1 epic for final reward. Makes sense to me.Uh, no. First off, nobody ever did that. The reason nobody ever did that is because the 20th lists aren't "Epic" or "Heroic." They have always been the same regardless of what difficulty you ran the 20 completions on. And that's STILL the case. The devs have no plan to implement epic 20th lists.

Sounds to me like you truly do not understand the change. It is nothing but pure nerf to pretty much everybody's raid counters (those who don't raid at all are of course immune) with literally zero benefit for anyone.

And worse, because they have no plans to implement epic 20th lists this change serves no purpose whatsoever.

EllisDee37
08-30-2013, 08:34 PM
Devs, you can make it right if you do the following:

First, fix the actual counters
Second, globally apply "total raid completions" (regardless of difficulty) to both the heroic and epic counters for everyone.

So if someone had 18 VONs before the change, and now shows 17/1, set them to 18/18.

WanderingGrump
08-30-2013, 08:35 PM
The GMs are working to help Caught in the Web runners who are in this predicament between now and when the patch is applied so that you get the list, and then when patch comes it goes to the right total number to avoid getting "skipped".

Are we supposed to contact a GM before the raid, while still in the raid at completion or just after it's completion?

Armus
08-30-2013, 10:31 PM
I'm looking at the timers for Vault of Night - I've never done this on heroic in yet the timers are 6H/1E. Failing to correct this is like highway robbery. Please tell me someone will get this straight. If you are going to err, you should err on the side of the player. Or have you forgotten who pays the bills?

djl
08-30-2013, 11:29 PM
I'm looking at the timers for Vault of Night - I've never done this on heroic in yet the timers are 6H/1E. Failing to correct this is like highway robbery. Please tell me someone will get this straight. If you are going to err, you should err on the side of the player. Or have you forgotten who pays the bills?

Seems like they just don't care anymore. :\

Sorffe
08-31-2013, 12:10 AM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.

We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

This sounds like some halfway explanation, which may or may not suffice, but for one glaring problem. I began playing DDO AFTER the Menace expansion, and all my raid completions are in the "new" raid system, yet all of my raid completions are all messed up. This explanation does NOT explain why my raid completions are being reported incorrectly.

Anthorin1
08-31-2013, 12:18 AM
If I am reading this correctly, it says that my count should be correct for any VON raids I've run since MOTU came out? If that's so, then I respectfully disagree. My count after the patch showed VON Heroic 9 / EPIC 1, but I have definitely run more than 1 epic VON this year, so well after MOTU came out (not sure when I ran the heroic completion/s)

Agreed. Mine shows: "The Vault of Night : Heroic: 23 / Epic : 2" And I dont think I have ever done it on Heroic.

bazooka99
08-31-2013, 01:40 AM
Just a thought, instead of just berrating the gms and game designers, why not try making constructive remarks instead. Yes some people are gonna lose some work with the new system. O well, it happens with every patch. there is gear that changed with the new patch, my old unique loot with deathward isnt as effective as new DW. new DW is still cool though. It would be nice if they could track perfectly what everyone ran, but the system was not designed to do that yet. Since i could claim all my runs were epic elite, and they cant prove they weren't, they are doing the best they can with the data they have.

It sounds to me like a lot more Epic runs will be done with the new system instead of gaming it by running 19 heroic 1 epic for final reward. Makes sense to me. It also lets them add cool new Epic end rewards knowing that those that get them will have earned them. So I'm gonna be the only one to say, nice work on the new system, it sounds like it has potential. hope you put in some cool Epic 20th runs rewards too, since it will be far harder to get them.

There's a difference between adding gear/rewards that are better than older gear/rewards, and taking away what someone has worked toward/spent Turbine points on. Suppose a capped toon has been working on getting an SoS before he TR's. He's run, say, a dozen epic VoN raids and spent 1000 TP on raid timer bypasses, not to mention a month of time. Now, thanks to this patch, he'll have to find 8 heroic VoN raids that are willing to accept a capped toon, and he'll be running a raid that (apart from a chance at an SoS) is useless to him. So what good did those 1000 TP and weeks of waiting to TR do him?

What I would suggest is using raid completion tokens (much like the tokens of the twelve) that are awarded upon a successful raid completion. Epic raid completion tokens may be traded for heroic completion tokens of the same type, but not vice-versa. They can be turned in individually to count as an epic or heroic completion (depending on which type was turned in). This system would allow the toon in the above example to continue running Epic VoN while still working toward the 20th he'd been aiming for in the first place.

What I would like is for everyone to be given a heroic raid completion token for each of their completions made prior to the patch. This avoids the problem of removing people's progress toward their 20th, and it also avoids the problem of giving epic completions to those who've never earned them. Everyone gets exactly what they thought they were getting when they ran those epic raids before the patch: progress toward a heroic 20th list.

Flavilandile
08-31-2013, 02:07 AM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.


This is plainly wrong.

I have a character that shows 43 Heroic and 1 Epic VON6.

He definitely did more than 1 single VON 6 since last year. ( I'm fairly sure he did at least 8 )

Edit for details : he did one single VON6 at level in 2010, when we were waiting for our European Characters to be dumped on G-Land, all his other VON6 were done at Epic Level, both before MOTU and after MOTU... So maybe you have mixed up your counters and inverted them.

It's also valid ( at a lesser extend ) for Chronoscope... I can't say for ADQ, as I won't do that raid unless I'm roaring drunk as I despise the stupid DQ Part 1 in two parties mechanism.

And that's for only one character... I haven't checked the others yet.

EllisDee37
08-31-2013, 02:09 AM
it also avoids the problem of giving epic completions to those who've never earned themThat's not a problem to avoid. There is no benefit for epic completions over heroic completions when it comes to 20th lists. There is only one 20th list per raid, and it's wholly irrelevant whether your 20 completions were all heroic, all epic, or some combination. No matter what you still get the same 20th list.

There is no possible benefit from a heroic-only player getting credit for epic runs. None.

This change just cost everyone who raids some of their completions toward their next 20th list. For no reason whatsoever, it turns out, because the 20th lists haven't changed.

The appropriate remedy is to give us our completion counters for both heroic and epic so that we can continue on toward our 20ths whichever way we prefer. I know I for one can't imagine running heroic VON5/6 when epic gives you all that tasty xp, so I'd hate to see all the credit given to heroic instead of epic. By the same token, someone else who could only handle heroic shouldn't be forced to run epic.

Give us both. Start us off with out current actual counter applied to both heroic and epic. The worst that happens is somebody gets an easier shot at a second 20th list. So what? That's the price you pay for poorly thought out systems changes during a rushed-out patch.

EDIT: I think what really bothers me about this is that U19 doesn't even have a raid. Not only did we not get new raids, now they're borking the 20th list counters for every raid still in the game. I mean, seriously, what the heck are they thinking? Why was it so important to change raid mechanics when we haven't gotten a new raid in like 6 months?

BOgre
08-31-2013, 02:18 AM
EDIT: I think what really bothers me about this is that U19 doesn't even have a raid. Not only did we not get new raids, now they're borking the 20th list counters for every raid still in the game. I mean, seriously, what the heck are they thinking? Why was it so important to change raid mechanics when we haven't gotten a new raid in like 6 months?

Valid question.

djl
08-31-2013, 02:33 AM
That's not a problem to avoid. There is no benefit for epic completions over heroic completions when it comes to 20th lists. There is only one 20th list per raid, and it's wholly irrelevant whether your 20 completions were all heroic, all epic, or some combination. No matter what you still get the same 20th list.

There is no possible benefit from a heroic-only player getting credit for epic runs. None.

This change just cost everyone who raids some of their completions toward their next 20th list. For no reason whatsoever, it turns out, because the 20th lists haven't changed.

The appropriate remedy is to give us our completion counters for both heroic and epic so that we can continue on toward our 20ths whichever way we prefer. I know I for one can't imagine running heroic VON5/6 when epic gives you all that tasty xp, so I'd hate to see all the credit given to heroic instead of epic. By the same token, someone else who could only handle heroic shouldn't be forced to run epic.

Give us both. Start us off with out current actual counter applied to both heroic and epic. The worst that happens is somebody gets an easier shot at a second 20th list. So what? That's the price you pay for poorly thought out systems changes during a rushed-out patch.

EDIT: I think what really bothers me about this is that U19 doesn't even have a raid. Not only did we not get new raids, now they're borking the 20th list counters for every raid still in the game. I mean, seriously, what the heck are they thinking? Why was it so important to change raid mechanics when we haven't gotten a new raid in like 6 months?

Quoted for Truth.

I can honestly see people quitting over this if it is not resolved in a timely manner. Most of the people who do raids focus on their completions, and sometimes even buy bypasses to get to that magic number more quickly.

A lot of people postpone TRs when they are close to a list so they don't miss out, and now those people will have to wait an indefinite amount of time to even do their TRs, unless they want to lose out on all the work they put in for 20th lists. So, what is there to do other than take a break from the game until it's fixed?

Then there are players like me, who were 5 or less completions away from a list who have been searching for a particular piece of loot for a very long time. To us, suddenly having almost all of that work taken away for no apparent reason other than incredibly short-sighted project management, it is incredibly disheartening. It makes me question why I continue to play a game where the devs decide on a whim to push out an unnecessary half-finished new system as part of a PATCH.

As several people have said, the best solution... the ONLY solution is to add together heroic/epic raids and then set the sum to be equal for both. This way, people's work is restored. Time is of the essence-- this can't be another "soon" fix. The longer it drags out, the less faith your customers will have in you and the more likely it is they will abandon you.

Hakushi
08-31-2013, 02:52 AM
While you're working on a fix for the list, it might be the time to split the list, raids and non-raids: /quests completions and /raid completions. The list is very long.

snakelord2
08-31-2013, 03:20 AM
This is flat out WRONG, you need a better QA team. I have been TRing for the past 2.5 years, and didn't even play MOTU when it came out. I finally did my last TR at the beginning of this year and starting running raids with my current TR a few months ago. ALL my ADQ runs have been on EN/EH/EE yet my counter says the following:
Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 16 / Epic : 0
All these runs were done in between the MOTU and Shadowfell packs on epic yet are reported as heroic, so your statement above is false. Checked with my brother last night who is in my same shoes, has been TRing until early this year and ran all the Epic DQ raids with me. His counter shows Heroic 19 / Epic 0, and he was waiting to run his 20th epic run until this 20th raid loot issue got fixed. He ran the raid last night for his 20th time on epic and got ZERO named items. To add insult to injury I ran EH CITW with him after that and he pulled the Twilight staff which wasn't even upgraded even though it was an EH run.

Way to break something that wasn't broken, and way to misdiagnose the problem and offer no fix.

EDIT ONE: same problem with VON which shows The Vault of Night : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 1. I started running that only in the last two months and I have never run it on heroic.

EDIT TWO: your system is still borked, since I ran ADQ EH last night and it was counted as a heroic run.

sounds like you need to run it as EE not EH

visibleman
08-31-2013, 03:55 AM
This will not be corrected as there is no way for us or the system to distinguish whether those pre-MOTU runs were Epic or not (back then everything in the back end was just marking off as the same thing in the data).

I think you will find that the vast majority of players will run a quest/raid on Heroic Elite no more than a few times (if there are items they) need or possible only ONCE (for the favour). After that it will only run be on EPIC because we are trying to get the damn seals and shards (and Epic Tokens)!

And back the reward list was the same for Epic and Heroic... Oh wait a minute, its STILL the same. You haven't actually changed that yet.

I am absolutely 100% certain that you would not get a single complaint if you credited all the completions against the Epic side.

"its too hard for us to fix" really is a feeble excuse.:mad:




Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions.

I had 57 completions of CITW, now its is split 26/31. Are you are saying that I somehow managed to do 26 of those completions BEFORE the raid ever existed on Live??

If this is Turbines level of Maths ability, no wonder there are so many bugs.

I'll say it again FEEBLE EXCUSE.

I have however used a lot of timer bypasses. Perhaps it is counting runs that were done on a bypass as heroic??

BTW, FoT hasn't affected this total for me. My FoT completions are showing correctly as 0/31.



The GMs are working to help Caught in the Web runners who are in this predicament between now and when the patch is applied so that you get the list, and then when patch comes it goes to the right total number to avoid getting "skipped".

Do your GM's work round the clock? Otherwise this won't help players in Europe or on the other side of the world.



If you are going to implement EPIC rewards lists, I would like to see a wall of Seals and Shards to choose from - absolutely NO random junk items in the list. Or better still Pre-Epic'd item (Yes, give me Epic Time-Sensing Goggles on my 20th EPIC Chronoscope). Only this will make people forgive you for this disaster.

Target-Practice100
08-31-2013, 04:11 AM
Seems like they just don't care anymore. :\

The simple answer is they don't. Not about the players and not about the game. Its now just about the money. This has become very clear in the past few months, and especially from the carnage to player's toons from the new enhancement system, which is why some of my friends have given up and gone over to Guild Wars 2. And the way things are now I won't be far behind them, because I am seriously fed up with Turbine's attitude to the game and it's treatment of the players. A group of us have suspected for some time now they have been secretly inserting and testing new things in the game, and this shows how right we were. Question now is, what else have they put in to screw up our game that they have not told us about? I suspect any number of things to screw us over and ruin our game. For myself, I see things very simply and clearly - the only people who do not understand the game are the developers and Turbine management. It is they who are ruining our game and driving players out. I have decided not to spend any more money on DDO, until Turbine shows they are taking the game and players seriously again by fixing up the mess they have made with the game. When its only about money for them, that's the only way to make them understand a very simple fact - WE ARE NOT HAPPY TURBINE, NOT HAPPY AT ALL! Enough is enough Turbine, and I have just about had enough, and I know for a fact I am not the only one.

PurpleTimb
08-31-2013, 04:12 AM
While you're working on a fix for the list, it might be the time to split the list, raids and non-raids: /quests completions and /raid completions. The list is very long.
This is the kind of fix that should be getting developer time. How about developing a graphic in game window that shows quest completions, with tabs for raids vs. quests and is searchable and sortable. If that's too much work, then just give us separate commands to show the raids and quests and put them in some kind of order that makes them more readable.

Instead, what we got was a 'fix' that breaks raid completions, invalidates countless hours of players' efforts and makes a large percentage of the player base avoid running raids simply so that if some time in the future the devs decide to implement a new feature we may have some of the tools needed for it already in the game (assuming we can get them working correctly by then).

I've said it many times and I'll say it again. I don't understand how 'fixes' are prioritized to be worked on for this game. It often seems that top priority is always given to random things that serve only to make the game less fun and less rewarding to play. I love this game, but for the last year I've felt like someone at Turbine is going out of their way to try to convince me not to.

Stoner81
08-31-2013, 05:28 AM
There's a difference between adding gear/rewards that are better than older gear/rewards, and taking away what someone has worked toward/spent Turbine points on.

*cough*

Guild decay.

*cough*

Stoner81.

Qaliya
08-31-2013, 05:29 AM
I can honestly see people quitting over this if it is not resolved in a timely manner. Most of the people who do raids focus on their completions, and sometimes even buy bypasses to get to that magic number more quickly.


I'm generally very much an anti-doomer around here, but I can see it as well. Heck, if I was an end-game player and I was on the fence about continuing to play DDO, this might well have pushed me over it.



Then there are players like me, who were 5 or less completions away from a list who have been searching for a particular piece of loot for a very long time. To us, suddenly having almost all of that work taken away for no apparent reason other than incredibly short-sighted project management, it is incredibly disheartening. It makes me question why I continue to play a game where the devs decide on a whim to push out an unnecessary half-finished new system as part of a PATCH.


I started programming in the early 1980s and have degrees in both the computer field and management, and I'm utterly baffled at the decision-making that happened here. It's pretty much a no-brainer that you don't try to roll out new features in patches. If you're going to violate that maxim, you certainly don't do it unless they are extremely simple and extremely well-tested, and this was neither. To do it in a rush patch before a holiday weekend is well beyond my understanding.

Henky
08-31-2013, 06:37 AM
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
Sorry, but WRONG:

Here is a capture of one of my toons, TR'd him this year, i think it was in january:
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh276/TrueHenky/jugg02.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/TrueHenky/media/jugg02.jpg.html)

All the raids I did with him were in Epic, ALL OF THEM. SEVEN epic von6s, i dont run it on heroic. And if you don't trust me, just check the completions on Against the Demon Queen, both epic, but it show as Heroic, and then check my favor window, it shows Epic Hard. Something is wrong and this will not be corrected? Its not like a really care about that 2 raids, but others do.

- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.
And wrong again, sorry. More control+p, first same toon:
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh276/TrueHenky/jugg01.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/TrueHenky/media/jugg01.jpg.html)
Did after U19 but PRE patch 1. Again, check the favor window.

And now, with my suboptimal FvS, YESTERDAY, complete Storm Horns Chain:
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh276/TrueHenky/fvs01.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/TrueHenky/media/fvs01.jpg.html)

It seems that you dont care about the player base, and the player base is the one paying the game.

Just put all completions on the EPIC side, we get NOTHING with this. Just our completions as we had before you messed it.

Bloodrow
08-31-2013, 08:40 AM
If this were a billing problem it would have already been fixed. I have 2 accounts that are on my Credit Card and 1 that is Payed as played. In order to make this a priority the the Raiders need to make it hurt where it counts. If I were to freeze my Credit Card and stop playing, and others follow my example, The Coffers would run dry and they would need to be more respectful to the Payer/player. I do not have a problem at this point, But if this is an on going way of getting things done around here, it's a travesty and a suprise that more ppl haven't left. I do know that since I have been online from the late 70's that it's not good idea to get a new game/patch/expansion before it has run it's course for atleast 6 months to address any bugs. This game/patch/expansion was a rush job and we will be paying the price, or will we?

Stoner81
08-31-2013, 08:47 AM
Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.

Caught in the Web : Heroic: 31 / Epic : 4

Just thought about this too, I have run most of these apart from maybe 3 or 4 between MoTU and Shadowfell and you say that they should ALL show up in the EPIC side? WHAT UTTER GARBAGE! I was 5 more runs away from my 40th and now thanks to your total and complete incompetence at quality control I have been bent over and royally shafted since I am now 16 runs away!

It is clear that you guys don't give a rats a$$ about your PAYING CUSTOMERS! This is beyond a f****** joke!

Stoner81.

RTFM
08-31-2013, 09:07 AM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.



I checked against a spreadsheet I have that I track every single run and counter on my toons. The math does not add up from your description above.

I also have toons with NEGATIVE completions. CITW in particular has NEGATIVE heroic completions, and two toons have 20 EPIC completions listed on FOT in which both were not even close to 20 on epic/heroic FOT or CITW.



- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.



Again, this explanation does not match my records of my completions prior to U19, or U19.1. The Math is not correct if I use your explanation for any of the toons. I suggest either you have the wrong assumptions on the error, or there is something mighty fishy going on.

What is really surprising, is that on two toons I finished 20 FOTs the day before update 19, BOTH of those toons still show a correct FOT count, but again the CITW count is random and does not match your description above. Why would both of the FOT counts be correct? Perhaps because they were 20 and it would be flawed to my advantage if in fact they were now 10? Very odd and suspicious.

And one last thing. Why was this even messed with? With the plethora of issues that could of been fixed instead, why choose to change the raid counter mechanism last minute?

Can anyone give an example of this counter error that worked out in their favor shortening the path to 20 completion end list? I somehow doubt it.

Standal
08-31-2013, 10:19 AM
Here are my current completions on a toon halfway through level 27.

(Standard): Raid Completions:
Lines of Supply : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
The Tracker's Trap : Heroic: 4 / Epic : 0
Breaking the Ranks : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
A Break In the Ice : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
What Goes Up : Heroic: 5 / Epic : 0
Friends in Low Places : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
A Lesson in Deception : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
Army of Shadow : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
Through a Mirror Darkly : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Thrill of the Hunt : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
The Fall of Truth : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 9
Menace of the Underdark: The Queen of the Demonweb : Heroic: 8 / Epic : 0
Menace of the Underdark: City of Portals : Heroic: 4 / Epic : 0
Menace of the Underdark: The Darkening : Heroic: 5 / Epic : 0
Caught in the Web : Heroic: -2 / Epic : 9
The Lord of Blades : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Master Artificer : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Reign of Madness : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Harbinger of Madness : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Attack on Stormreach : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Chronoscope : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Last Stand : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Into the Deep : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
The Claw of Vulkoor : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Fathom the Depths : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Maleficent Cabal : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Sentinels of Stormreach : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Tide Turns : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Dreaming Dark : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Mindsunder : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Sharn Syndicate : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Devil You Know : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Stealer of Souls : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Prove Your Worth : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Legend of Two-Toed Tobias : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Ghost of a Chance : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
A Vision of Destruction : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Hound of Xoriat : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Thirteenth Eclipse : Heroic: 3 / Epic : 0
Accursed Ascension : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Reaver's Fate : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Twilight Forge : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Vault of Night : Heroic: 6 / Epic : 1
Return to Delera's Tomb : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Abandoned Excavation : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Archbishop's Daughter : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Cult of the Six : Heroic: 2 / Epic : 0
Assault on Splinterskull : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Lost Seekers : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Seal of Shan-To-Kor : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Fire Caves : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
Garl's Tomb : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0
The Scoundrel's Run : Heroic: 0 / Epic : 0

All of the new quests show as heroic. This character was capped at the second expansion and hasn't run a single heroic quest since then. He's a 4th life TR who was TR'd after MOTU. Von count is not right. I may have run Von 5 for XP, but I don't think so. All of the MOTU stuff was run exclusively on epic. Not sure how much I care about the non-raid stuff, but my raid counters aside from FOT are all jacked up.

Edit: Also, some of the Wheloon and Storm Horn quests were run after the patch, so epic completions are still not working right.

barecm
08-31-2013, 10:23 AM
Set all the affected raid timers to -1 and make 0 have a 20th type list. Done.

djl
08-31-2013, 11:22 AM
To make matters worse, Turbine completely misdiagnosed the problem, and their explanation has since been easily refuted by numerous players. That makes them look truly incompetent, and the fact that they have not responded since that mouthful of BS shows they really don't care.

Newsflash: Shadowfell was a resounding dud. Between the lack of a new raid, the significantly reduced amount of permutations in randomgen loot, and the lackluster nature of the named items, many people find the expansion to be fairly uninteresting, scenery porn aside. As a result, a WEEK after its release the LFM panel is as dead as before at Cap and people are back to TRing.

Activity in this game has been steadily declining, and many had hopes that the expansion would renew some of it. It didn't. You don't have a leg to stand on, here, Turbine. Fixing this needs to be your TOP priority because you don't have the leeway to spare losing a few hundred players just because you are too lazy to fix a mess that you created.

bazooka99
08-31-2013, 11:39 AM
That's not a problem to avoid. There is no benefit for epic completions over heroic completions when it comes to 20th lists. There is only one 20th list per raid, and it's wholly irrelevant whether your 20 completions were all heroic, all epic, or some combination. No matter what you still get the same 20th list.

There is no possible benefit from a heroic-only player getting credit for epic runs. None.

This change just cost everyone who raids some of their completions toward their next 20th list. For no reason whatsoever, it turns out, because the 20th lists haven't changed.

The appropriate remedy is to give us our completion counters for both heroic and epic so that we can continue on toward our 20ths whichever way we prefer. I know I for one can't imagine running heroic VON5/6 when epic gives you all that tasty xp, so I'd hate to see all the credit given to heroic instead of epic. By the same token, someone else who could only handle heroic shouldn't be forced to run epic.

Give us both. Start us off with out current actual counter applied to both heroic and epic. The worst that happens is somebody gets an easier shot at a second 20th list. So what? That's the price you pay for poorly thought out systems changes during a rushed-out patch.

Oh, I agree, but Turbine seems to think this is a problem. What I said was just a compromise in which we don't lose any of our completions (as in the current system), nor do we gain any (because somehow, the latter is unacceptable).

alvarego
08-31-2013, 11:42 AM
The Vault of Night : Heroic: 24 / Epic : 1

This is not serious, really ... once again ... pffft, can't even figure out how you staff guys again and again and again and again make it wrong and still time after time get to anger an already completely bored of wrongdoings playerbase.

Once again, shame.

bazooka99
08-31-2013, 11:52 AM
*cough*

Guild decay.

*cough*

Stoner81.

At least with guild decay it was well-understood you would lose guild renown over time.

At least when ship amenities were lost Turbine made an attempt to reimburse people.

If Turbine leaves this system as is, this is (as far as I know) completely new territory for them (assuming they don't take away all our ED xp next update). People spend real money on a product under the assumption they won't lose it, yet get no forewarning that they'll lose what they purchased, and no reimbursement.

Lanadazia
08-31-2013, 12:36 PM
The Vault of Night : Heroic: 24 / Epic : 1

This is not serious, really ... once again ... pffft, can't even figure out how you staff guys again and again and again and again make it wrong and still time after time get to anger an already completely bored of wrongdoings playerbase.

Once again, shame.

same problem here
i raid von6 on epic only, since i need the base items AND the shard.
i don't know anyone doing it on heroic.
its one of the older raids that are still well run on epic on argonessen.

my quest completion says:

The Vault of Night : Heroic: 6 / Epic : 2


UPDATE:
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.


so all the completions i've done after u14 will be counted right?
all completions are done in the past 2 months so you will change it to Heroic: 0 / Epic : 8 ??

please more info!


and please! please! please!
give us the opportunity to remove stuff from the /quest completions
its a really long list of quests, that do not belong into a RAID completion list, as it titles itself!
i don't wanna see any three barrel cove quests or red fens quests in my raid completions and have to search out the actual raids!
or at least let us change the order in a way we want.

BinyaminTsadik
08-31-2013, 02:09 PM
Are you sure?

Caught in the Web : Heroic: -4 / Epic : 7

(what is -4?)

oberon131313
08-31-2013, 04:43 PM
To add insult to injury I ran EH CITW with him after that and he pulled the Twilight staff which wasn't even upgraded even though it was an EH run.

CiTW stuff doesn't drop upgraded based on difficulty. Your perceived injury is no one's fault but your own.

samthedagger
08-31-2013, 08:08 PM
I am not gonna hurl tons of Turbine hate, but I would like to voice my frustrations. My guild has a lot of toons who are practically unavailable to raid because they were on 19th completions and they are not sure if they are going to get their rewards. As the problem continues to go unfixed, misdiagnosed, and uncorrected, we are losing the pool of characters available to raid with us on guild raid nights and the problem is just getting worse.

Please fix this bug post-haste. It needs to have top-priority. Do not wait until Patch 2. Fix it and put it up as a hotfix.

MysticElaine
08-31-2013, 08:36 PM
To add my name to the list of people that have been shafted.I am, sorry WAS, 5 runs shy of my 40th completion. Now I am 33 heroic/2 epic. I am 100% positive that all my runs after my 20th run were epic.My CITW are also borked, but since I know this is going to be fixed or taken care of by a gm, I'm not too worried about being close to my list. But I will be taking lots of screen shots.

djl
08-31-2013, 10:13 PM
This silence is not appreciated.

It would be nice to hear some good news, like "We are working on fixing the root issue and in the mean time, we will do XYZ to compensate for the erroneous reports in raid completions."

eonfreon
08-31-2013, 10:39 PM
Well, I'd really like to know what they were thinking when they added this split timer into the game. It seems to me, even if it had worked out perfectly with no bugs, it would have still screwed some people over.

Unless I'm thinking about it wrong. But if someone had done 10 Von Raids while in Heroic levels and then they did 9 Von Raids in Epic, that the counter would now split the completions as 10/9 instead of it being 19. So instead of being one away from a 20th list, he would be at least 10 or 11 away, even if everything had gone according to plan.

Or am I misunderstanding what was done?

NaturalHazard
09-01-2013, 12:20 AM
For at least two of my toons, the /quest completions lists a huge number of heroic completions of Vault of Night and Against the Demon Queen although I completed most of them between U14 and U19 on epic difficulty. Should I bug report this or will this be fixed in the upcoming patch?

Edit: Ninja'd by someone who has the same problem. :D

I only ran 1-2 von's and dq2's at heroic level because I leveled so fast, but why does my count show 17 heroic vons and only 1 epic? lol on our server you hardly ever see people running heroic level von when they are over leveled so I call bs on that count same with the dq2. And this is just on one toon, all the others got screwed up counts I hope it gets fixed with the upcoming patch. *sigh*

Keltarrin
09-01-2013, 12:20 AM
Well, I'd really like to know what they were thinking when they added this split timer into the game. It seems to me, even if it had worked out perfectly with no bugs, it would have still screwed some people over.

Unless I'm thinking about it wrong. But if someone had done 10 Von Raids while in Heroic levels and then they did 9 Von Raids in Epic, that the counter would now split the completions as 10/9 instead of it being 19. So instead of being one away from a 20th list, he would be at least 10 or 11 away, even if everything had gone according to plan.

Or am I misunderstanding what was done?

It seems fairly obvious to me what they were thinking. Force Raiders to raid more often necessitating more purchases from the cash shop. Raid timers, SP potions, healing items, loot gems, and whatever else they think they can peddle.

Mind you, Tolero, I'm not including you as part of "they". I'm well aware that these kinds of decisions are way above your pay grade and you're merely the messenger.

EllisDee37
09-01-2013, 02:22 AM
It seems to me, even if it had worked out perfectly with no bugs, it would have still screwed some people over.Agreed.

Flavilandile
09-01-2013, 02:27 AM
This silence is not appreciated.

It would be nice to hear news

Fixed it...

Especially as it screw up one of the last thing people were regularly doing : Raiding.
That's what left at end game, and the 20th reward is the driving force behind that. FUBARING it the way they have just done just made people stop raiding...
If people stop raiding, they gets bored... if they gets bored they leave the game to play another one where they won't be bored.

Communication in that case is extremely important, as well as finding a quick and relevant solution to the problem.

In some case it looks like the counters between Heroic and Epics are inverted in other they are just wrong ( and I'm not talking of the FoT/CitW mess ).


Well, I'd really like to know what they were thinking when they added this split timer into the game. It seems to me, even if it had worked out perfectly with no bugs, it would have still screwed some people over.

Yup it would, and no it wont.
It would have screwed some people like you gave in your example, but consider the following :
Somebody with 23 VON completion : 4 Heroics and 19 Epics.
With the split he gets a chance at 20th reward again, 4 completion after his previous 20th reward.

All in all there is no real good way to make the split, as long as the numbers in the split are right, it will screw up some, and it will advantages others.

The big problem is getting the right numbers... As proved by a lot of us in this thread their numbers are just completely wrong... In some case they come out of thin air, in other cases they have inverted heroics and epics.

luvirini
09-01-2013, 03:45 AM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected as there is no way for us or the system to distinguish whether those pre-MOTU runs were Epic or not (back then everything in the back end was just marking off as the same thing in the data).


And what you are saying is not correct, A character that has never run a heroic Vault of night and has TRed since u14 shows 8 heroic completion.

And in other words you are saying: You ran epic raids, but we decided to count them as heroic to make it harder for you to reach 20 completion. So no "confusion" about it, it i simply: "We decided to make things harder for you and to force you to run heroic raids on your level 28 characters because heroic raids is where raiding is at for level 28s.."

Simple solution if they cannot be distinguished: Make them count as either, meaning when unknown+heroic or unknown+epic reaches 20 give 20th rewards and do not count the unknown in future for 20th.

Alternatively give us a one time option( for example a / command) to adjust the things to one or other for each raid.

eonfreon
09-01-2013, 03:45 AM
Yup it would, and no it wont.
It would have screwed some people like you gave in your example, but consider the following :
Somebody with 23 VON completion : 4 Heroics and 19 Epics.
With the split he gets a chance at 20th reward again, 4 completion after his previous 20th reward.

All in all there is no real good way to make the split, as long as the numbers in the split are right, it will screw up some, and it will advantages others.

The big problem is getting the right numbers... As proved by a lot of us in this thread their numbers are just completely wrong... In some case they come out of thin air, in other cases they have inverted heroics and epics.

Yeah, I later realized that some people would also gain an advantage. So basically, if all had gone right, players who were close to a 20th list could have been potentially screwed over and put further away. While players who were far short of a 20th list could actually gain ground and get closer.

Makes one wonder if they really put any thought AT ALL into what they were doing.

NaturalHazard
09-01-2013, 06:14 AM
In the case of Caught in the Web, you can actually determine how close you are to a milestone run without needing to consult a GM by using the / command still. Because Fall of Truth completions clobbered both fields, the difference between the two shows what Caught in the Web run you're on. Example: If it's showing CitW heroic -5 / epic 24, you're at 19 epic.

its now showing me Citw heroic -1/epic 20 so im on 19 and if I run one I should get my end reward 20th list options? I was sitting at 19 before the changes.

Flavilandile
09-01-2013, 06:44 AM
Makes one wonder if they really put any thought AT ALL into what they were doing.

Probably not in players term...

But if you take the behind the scene point of view it's a step towards obsoleting the seal/shard/scroll system.
It's also a step towards offering Heroic and Epic difficulties for every quest. ( Now Epic Waterworks will be interesting, especially after Invaders! which was Epic to finish without a heap of Death Penalty when it was released )
It's also a step towards Epic TR. ( resetting all the Epic Quest counters and not touching the Heroic ones )

Now as it has been usual for the last year, they have released a half baked monster that makes us ( players ) unhappy without any communication and explanation and probably against QA recommandation.

And now they are back to the Damage Control step...
Seems more and more companies works that way... It seems to look better in KPIs to work that way than to do things right with a delay ( or not ).

ZeebaNeighba
09-01-2013, 09:44 AM
oops, I did not notice there was a page 2-5. And I believe I just said the same thing a bunch of other people just said.
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected as there is no way for us or the system to distinguish whether those pre-MOTU runs were Epic or not (back then everything in the back end was just marking off as the same thing in the data).I have not been experiencing this. All my characters have been either rolled up or reincarnated after U14, and still have odd completion counters of raids with heroic and epic options. For example my bard has 31 demon queen completions, a good number of them heroics as that's all I can solo, and a good number of them epic. And they are all showing as heroic. Most of the other raids are either 0 or 1 epic completions and the rest heroic, which I know in most cases is simply not correct.

francy91
09-01-2013, 11:04 AM
oops, I did not notice there was a page 2-5. And I believe I just said the same thing a bunch of other people just said.I have not been experiencing this. All my characters have been either rolled up or reincarnated after U14, and still have odd completion counters of raids with heroic and epic options. For example my bard has 31 demon queen completions, a good number of them heroics as that's all I can solo, and a good number of them epic. And they are all showing as heroic. Most of the other raids are either 0 or 1 epic completions and the rest heroic, which I know in most cases is simply not correct.

Same problem here. But im interested on raid like Citw.. Before u19 i had 18 Citw completions and now i have 12 epic and 6 heroic. How can i have completed Citw on Heroic that doesn't even exist? o.O
I also bought timer bypass to get the 20th reward faster. Fix this at least. Nicely done.
I Tred my main toon about 1 month ago and i did von6 only on epic difficulty but it show only 1 on epic and the rest on heroic.

KingKoz
09-01-2013, 12:02 PM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.

We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

What about the counters that show negative amounts? does that mean I have to give the mats/loot/favor back? :-)

Episkopos
09-01-2013, 12:14 PM
I am not gonna hurl tons of Turbine hate, but I would like to voice my frustrations. My guild has a lot of toons who are practically unavailable to raid because they were on 19th completions and they are not sure if they are going to get their rewards. As the problem continues to go unfixed, misdiagnosed, and uncorrected, we are losing the pool of characters available to raid with us on guild raid nights and the problem is just getting worse.

Please fix this bug post-haste. It needs to have top-priority. Do not wait until Patch 2. Fix it and put it up as a hotfix.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2524/zpdj.jpg

60 VoN completions. The end reward list for my "third 20th" consisted solely of random-generated loot.

None of my post-MotU completions showing up as Epic completions.

And so it goes.

DrunkDwarves
09-01-2013, 04:19 PM
So if the total of negative heroic completions and our epic completions is the real total and will be set back to the "correct" total after a patch. Do we lose all of the completions we did in the interval? Should we just not raid at all to avoid complications?

Habitual.0
09-01-2013, 04:28 PM
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2524/zpdj.jpg

60 VoN completions. The end reward list for my "third 20th" consisted solely of random-generated loot.

None of my post-MotU completions showing up as Epic completions.

And so it goes.

Like many here I have run DQ in only epic difficulty and only after MotU and my completions say heroic. Also because I read this post and thought that the issue was only with CITW, So what I do? I run my 20th WDQ in hopes of finally getting a torc that never seems to drop for me. What I got was random loot.

I put in a ticket, GM closed it without talking to me saying to put in a bug report.

What is being done about this for people like me who thought they were safe and are now effected because there was no message about normal raids being borked?

JoanaCarneiro
09-01-2013, 05:17 PM
My game does not start. Its Stay in 'Installing pre-reqs'
Help me

MysticElaine
09-01-2013, 06:01 PM
My game does not start. Its Stay in 'Installing pre-reqs'Help meThere is another thread about this in general discussion...no one can log in.

MIvan
09-02-2013, 02:10 AM
UPDATE:
Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count.

You are wrong. I ran VON few times in the past two months, never before. I ran it only epic, never heroic. Now i have 5 heroic and 1 epic on counter.

Hutoth
09-02-2013, 10:35 AM
http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/files/legacy/archives/evil_genius_drevil.jpg

(*us)

Volarr
09-02-2013, 01:03 PM
I have a first life char that has been in game since I started. All of this chars epic completions but 1 in each raid has been set to heroic completions. if I had 50 epic completions I now have 1 epic and 49 heroic. I didn't mater when I made these epic completions they all were wiped clean and converted to heroic. All the ******** doesn't change the fact that they (turbine) are making us all start over they don't care if you had 98 completions you have 1 now.

Onekife
09-02-2013, 02:03 PM
Unacceptable. The ONLY way to make this right is give heroic AND epic completions for ALL the the counted completions for each raid. The very least you can do to fix this Turbine.

Zarquine
09-02-2013, 07:01 PM
And it gets better! I have done the Wheloon chain and the first Storm Horns quest on Epic Hard and what do my Quest Completions say?

The Tracker's Trap : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Friends in Low Places : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
A Lesson in Deception : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Army of Shadow : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
Through a Mirror Darkly : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0
The Thrill of the Hunt : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0

My Adventure Compendium says Epic Hard for all of them.

MichelOue
09-02-2013, 07:15 PM
This is an all time 1st for Turbine. They implement a change in preparation for a feature that may or may not ever see the light of day, and in doing so give birth to a new bug... I mean, usually you guys release new bugs WITH new features, this time you've decided to skip the feature altogether and just release the bug on its own? Genius!

http://gabrielchapman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/zoolander-mugatu-crazy-pills.jpg

Makes me wonder how many lines of programing any of these critics could read before getting confused: IT IS THE FIRST TIME IN HUMANITY WE HAVE VIRTUAL REALITY, I praise this tremendous success where 100 years ago there was nothing.

Bravo TURBINE< HASBRO< WIASARDS, love n peace I love the bugs to my advantage :)

PS WHO EVER HAS A FROG WITH A TOP HAT LOVE< HAHAHAH I want a monkey that throws diapers my charisma tanked low.

Callpso
09-02-2013, 08:49 PM
The GMs are working to help Caught in the Web runners who are in this predicament between now and when the patch is applied so that you get the list, and then when patch comes it goes to the right total number to avoid getting "skipped".

Have you told your GMs that they're supposed to be working with the CITW players to resolve this? My husband, (toon name Jhm), had his counter showing as 1 heroic, 18 epic, and ran it after seeing that if it does mess up the end list, it would be dealt with. His ticket was responded to by Rothgar, who told him the GMs could do nothing about it, that he should take the end reward, and when his logs showed 1 heroic, 19 epic, all he did was roll back a completion so he could try again! The really sad thing is, he didn't even change the heroic so it would show 19 epic, it again says 1 heroic, 18 epic.

Making someone repeat a raid in order to get the right list isn't very helpful, especially when the 'fix' didn't change what was causing the error in the first place.

So is this really all that is being done, and now he is just supposed to forego raiding until this is fixed in an upcoming patch, or is there something else that he should do?

mmitch5
09-03-2013, 02:56 PM
my CITW completions is showing -1 ( done 34 citw) and FOT at 0 (37 done )
I hope good values will come back as I will not have the courage do do all this again
Will they be able to retrieve the good complétions for all players ?
I have a doubt on this



Have you told your GMs that they're supposed to be working with the CITW players to resolve this? My husband, (toon name Jhm), had his counter showing as 1 heroic, 18 epic, and ran it after seeing that if it does mess up the end list, it would be dealt with. His ticket was responded to by Rothgar, who told him the GMs could do nothing about it, that he should take the end reward, and when his logs showed 1 heroic, 19 epic, all he did was roll back a completion so he could try again! The really sad thing is, he didn't even change the heroic so it would show 19 epic, it again says 1 heroic, 18 epic.

Making someone repeat a raid in order to get the right list isn't very helpful, especially when the 'fix' didn't change what was causing the error in the first place.

So is this really all that is being done, and now he is just supposed to forego raiding until this is fixed in an upcoming patch, or is there something else that he should do?

trapbait
09-03-2013, 08:08 PM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.

We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

This makes no sense Tolero, please explain the following. I have a toon that lists my citw completions as follows: Heroic 10 epic 7 . There is no heroic citw, so why have my 17 completions been split this way and when will it be fixed so that I may get my 20th completion?

Seriously! what the heck is the deal?

fraz'urb'luu
09-03-2013, 11:31 PM
lol I tr'ed my guy and bypasses all epic playable quests until I could do them on epic difficulty. I have done one fathom the depths chain on epic hard and my completion reads :

Fathom the Depths : Heroic: 1 / Epic : 0

now for the fun part:

Caught in the Web : Heroic: -2 / Epic : 4

I will not be doing raids until this is fixed. no reason to do it if there is no reward.

Peter_Stauffenberg
09-04-2013, 04:05 AM
UPDATE- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.

On my level 25 fighter I get the following for Caught In The WEB.

Caught In the WEB: Heroic: 18 / Epic: 0

He isn't even flagged for FOT and therefore never run the quest. It shows for me: The Fall of Truth: Heroic: 0 / Epic: 0

So I got 18 heroic on CITW without FOT messing up the counters. All my CITW have been done this Spring and Summer. I stopped running CITW since U19 since I'm so close to 20th competion.Why can't you just move the 18 heroic completions into epic since there is no heroic version of CITW.


- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected. .

That is not true for my level 25 fighter.

He TR'ed after U14 so all his runs on the current life has been after U14. Still on Vault of Night it shows:The Vault of Night: Heroic: 9 / Epic: 2

I have run the raid on epic 2 times after U19, thus the counter of 2 for my epic. When U19 was released it showed heroic 9. I have done all my VON 6 runs on epic (maybe with an exception of 1 run) and NOT heroic. The reason is that I'm looking for shards and farming XP in epic destinies. I rarely run VON 5-6 on heroic. Maybe 1 time at level (10-12) before resuming the quests on epic when I get to level 20. So the problem with placing my runs on heroic has nothing to do with those being run before U14. I have done most of my VON6 runs on this toon THIS year.

I understand that you may not distinguish whether a completion was done on heroic or epic and therefore just placed them on heroic. I think a different method would have been better.

1. Check the current level of the toon.

2. If the toon is level 20+ then you put the completions of quests that can be both epic and heroic on epic. The ones that can only be heroic (Shroud etc.) are placed on heroic. The ones that can be only epic (CITW) are placed on epic.

3. If the toon is level 1-19 you put the completions of quests on heroic

That is a simple way of solving this issue for most cases and it will not be unfair to the players since they get their completions at the level they can currently benefit from (heroic or epic). It doesn't make sense to me that my level 25 fighter have to do 11 heroic VON 6's to get the 20th completion. 99% of the VON6 raids that allow 20+ will be the epic version. I have run the epic version on my toon and not the heroic version. Therefore it's better to just convert all my runs into epic since my toon is 20+.-Doing this will make most people happy since they can more quickly get to their 20th run.

yun_chang
09-04-2013, 08:40 AM
Because Fall of Truth completions clobbered both fields, the difference between the two shows what Caught in the Web run you're on. Example: If it's showing CitW heroic -5 / epic 24, you're at 19 epic.

The difference between -5 and 24 is 29, not 19. 19 is the sum of -5 and 24. Even though it's sort of the opposite of what you said perhaps that's what you meant.

Bloodrow
09-04-2013, 11:19 AM
Just 1 question. Is the Essence of Cleansing acquired on the 20th completion of the Shroud? or Not? With all this stuff going on I stoped running Epic, and am just running Heroic. Then I'll just Tr again and not worry till the BUGS are fixed.

Flavilandile
09-04-2013, 01:32 PM
Just 1 question. Is the Essence of Cleansing acquired on the 20th completion of the Shroud?

One answer :
Yes.

It's one of the things you can select from the 20th reward list from Shroud.

Wipey
09-04-2013, 01:45 PM
stuff
So did he get raid loot on the 2nd try ( after the "rollback" ) ?
Cause I still got unplayed fighter rotting in Eveningstar with random **** 40 th ( Heroic: 18 / Epic : 21 )
reward. That would certainly be better than running 20 more citws.
4 tickets closed so far though, so it's past the "laughable" point .

jadedpantherfan32
09-04-2013, 02:32 PM
So if i was sitting on my 18 von5 and 6 it all goes to heroics.....so now i have 17 heroics and if i want my 20 completions i am going to have my 20 completions i am going to have to find a heroic group to do it this freakin sucks...i dont understand this...i ran everyone of them on epic so why are they not epic completions.

Retrodark
09-04-2013, 05:27 PM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.

We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

If something is broken fix it, but don't add more complexity to it by implementing new features at the same time. This just doesn't make any sense to me and it makes Turbine look like they have absolutely no QA and/or code reviews or testing. To put something into "production" like this and then just say too bad, this is what you get, is simply unprofessional and grounds for being fired at most businesses in the world.

This currently breaks the game in my opinion and if it doesn't get fixed soon, Turbine's revenue will suffer. If you guys really don't care about the players anymore then keep doing stuff like this. If we are important, then get all of this fixed and remove any features that were thrown in as an after thought, but don't do anything but break the current system (i.e. heroic/elite raid completions). Is there really a choice? How hard is it to just remove this **** and put raid completions back to normal (with the correct counts of course)?

Callpso
09-04-2013, 06:27 PM
So did he get raid loot on the 2nd try ( after the "rollback" ) ?
Cause I still got unplayed fighter rotting in Eveningstar with random **** 40 th ( Heroic: 18 / Epic : 21 )
reward. That would certainly be better than running 20 more citws.
4 tickets closed so far though, so it's past the "laughable" point .


Since they didn't roll back the 1 heroic that is throwing the count off, my husband has decided to not run a second try unless he finds out that someone is really supposed to help out with the rewards. He doesn't need anything more from the raid, having gotten what he was after, but he wanted the tome chance. I was hoping to find out if anyone else had gotten more help than what he had received. The first ticket, was closed with the note that it was a known issue, nothing could be done, with a link to the known issue forum. When pressed, with a link to Tolero's post , he was then responded to by 'tell' that he couldn't do anything except rollback the completions by one once he took the 20th end reward.

Hadesborne
09-05-2013, 12:03 AM
This is an all time 1st for Turbine. They implement a change in preparation for a feature that may or may not ever see the light of day, and in doing so give birth to a new bug... I mean, usually you guys release new bugs WITH new features, this time you've decided to skip the feature altogether and just release the bug on its own? Genius!

http://gabrielchapman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/zoolander-mugatu-crazy-pills.jpg

I am on the fence, but not on my opinion of this new update. I actually am on the fence with regards to the decision to abandon this game and throw away a lot of good money and a ridiculous amount of time spent playing this game. For the record, I NEVER spent my money on the game thinking that I was playing solely for the enjoyment of just playing a game. I spent my hard earned money and valuable time under the expectation that I would be rewarded by PROGESS in the game. Higher levels, better gear, more skills, a better guild are all examples of the progress I EXPECTED when I started playing this game years ago.

So now Turbine screws up (not a first for them or any company) and, instead of doing what EVERY OTHER SUCCESSFUL COMPANY would do, they just say, "Tough luck, all your PROGRESS in this area of the game is null and void." WOW!

So I am on the fence Turbine. Do I decide to stay and BUY your expansion and continue to BUY turbine points? or do I say, "Screw it, at least I know SONY, RIOT, or even BLIZZARD wouldn't do this to me, so I am off to a game that I can count on for some good PROGRESS."? The ball is in your court Turbine. Don't drop it.

NaturalHazard
09-05-2013, 01:26 AM
In the case of Caught in the Web, you can actually determine how close you are to a milestone run without needing to consult a GM by using the / command still. Because Fall of Truth completions clobbered both fields, the difference between the two shows what Caught in the Web run you're on. Example: If it's showing CitW heroic -5 / epic 24, you're at 19 epic.

yeah well i was at 19 before the issue it now showed heroic -1/ epic 20, so I thought yep im still at 19 and should get my 20th list, just ran it, elminster only has trash loot up, submited a ticket got told sorry we cant help you submit a bug report please..........yeah I feel stupid, waste of raid timer bypasses and time running the raid lol.



Have you told your GMs that they're supposed to be working with the CITW players to resolve this? My husband, (toon name Jhm), had his counter showing as 1 heroic, 18 epic, and ran it after seeing that if it does mess up the end list, it would be dealt with. His ticket was responded to by Rothgar, who told him the GMs could do nothing about it, that he should take the end reward, and when his logs showed 1 heroic, 19 epic, all he did was roll back a completion so he could try again! The really sad thing is, he didn't even change the heroic so it would show 19 epic, it again says 1 heroic, 18 epic.

Making someone repeat a raid in order to get the right list isn't very helpful, especially when the 'fix' didn't change what was causing the error in the first place.

So is this really all that is being done, and now he is just supposed to forego raiding until this is fixed in an upcoming patch, or is there something else that he should do?


Well at least they reset him back, I was just told submit a bug report and the ticket was closed :D. Your post actually gave me a tiny bit of hope, oh at least they care enough to do that little bit. I was wrong :D.




So now Turbine screws up (not a first for them or any company) and, instead of doing what EVERY OTHER SUCCESSFUL COMPANY would do, they just say, "Tough luck, all your PROGRESS in this area of the game is null and void." WOW!

So I am on the fence Turbine. Do I decide to stay and BUY your expansion and continue to BUY turbine points? or do I say, "Screw it, at least I know SONY, RIOT, or even BLIZZARD wouldn't do this to me, so I am off to a game that I can count on for some good PROGRESS."? The ball is in your court Turbine. Don't drop it.

yep I can understand your frustration a bit, for those people saying its not a big deal think of this, it takes almost 2months to get to 20th using no raid bypasses, or a fair about of $ or ingame resources to buy the timers. You do this in the hope of getting a chance at something, im my case a very important weapon for a lot of builds, you get to 20 your filled with hope and you get vendor trash.........:D then told sorry cant help you, submit bug report.

Hutoth
09-05-2013, 10:10 AM
Completions on epic difficulty that occurred recently and are incorrectly displayed as heroic completions have not been acknowledged as an issue.

Please keep this thread alive until the real Tolero responds

qft

Bolo_Grubb
09-05-2013, 12:23 PM
I hope the CITW completions are corrected. I was at 14 or 15 completions.

I have yet to get the named item I want I am hoping it will be on the 20th reward list. I am afraid to run this because I do not want to miss a chance at a 20th reward list.

Zarquine
09-05-2013, 02:09 PM
Not only do all my completions of The Tide Turns on EH count still as Heroic (after U19 and Patch 1), the every 3rd completion special end reward isn't working, too.

Lanadazia
09-05-2013, 04:33 PM
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.


We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.

this isn't acceptable, i don't think you can apologize for 'this will not be corrected'

i had a TR like 2 months before the expansion and started raiding for the 20th lists for the first time in YEARS!

my VoN completions were ALL epic and since that update i lost 6 of my completions
i won't bother doing this raid on heroic, since there is noone at 20+ want to run this on heroic.

'epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count.' it does not. fix it.
some quests don't even get credit for being done on epic after that patch (raids are luckily fine here)

and how shall the new system work with lord of blades? u're supposed to get a 10th reward list, but since u pretty much need to run epic and heroic to get the stuff you need for one single item this list is going to be screwed up aswell?

and please, let us customize the /quest completions
i do not know ANYONE wanting a list of his completions on two-toed tobias, seriously this list is a mess!

i claim a bypasstimer for each messed up completion, since this is getting me really mad!

Mystera
09-05-2013, 08:22 PM
No response yet from the developers? Unbelievable...

Wipey
09-05-2013, 08:23 PM
So my fighter has been looking at supposed 40 th random junk reward for some time .
18 heroic / 22 epic.
GM today ( Orgred I think, sorry if I mispelled ) told me today just to ignore the numbers ( but he can check your number of completions and can set it back only once ) and set it to 1 heroic /39 epic .
Used bypass, did Citw and voila - correct rewards .
Thumbs up !

Derana
09-06-2013, 04:57 AM
Caught in the Web : Heroic: 96 / Epic : 41

I've bought over 130 raid timers for this raid, i was at about 133 completions, on the way to 140 completions.. now im at this? i honestly hope that it will be fixed and that i will be at my 140 completions again (because i've run them on epic normal to epic elite). i only play it for 20th lists ...

Iriale
09-06-2013, 06:44 AM
When you fix this, devs, let us see the completions in the patron diary, please please please. It will be more comfortable. The list of the /quest completions command is very uncomfortable to read

Aviya
09-06-2013, 12:50 PM
When you fix this, devs, let us see the completions in the patron diary, please please please. It will be more comfortable. The list of the /quest completions command is very uncomfortable to read
Signed

Mystera
09-06-2013, 08:53 PM
UPDATE
Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.

This is not correct. Not only are all my ADQ completions on epic and are now flagged as heroic, but I ran ADQ on Epic Hard tonight and it just logged it as another heroic run. In other words I have no way to get epic completions on the raid since it keeps logging it as heroic runs. Please fix this.

Flavilandile
09-07-2013, 01:25 AM
No response yet from the developers? Unbelievable...

This is Turbine. Communication is... unreliable at best.

NaturalHazard
09-07-2013, 03:34 AM
Well after getting my citw raid counter correctly set to 19 by a Gm I ran citw today and got my list of citw items. I didn't see a tome, but was very happy to get a pinion on the list.

erbgorK
09-08-2013, 07:09 PM
Well after getting my citw raid counter correctly set to 19 by a Gm I ran citw today and got my list of citw items. I didn't see a tome, but was very happy to get a pinion on the list.


I ran my 20th citw today. I contacted a GM a few days ago who told me that if I would get a broken list, I could contact a GM and he would reset me to 19 completions and I could try again.

Well, when I contacted a GM after getting the list, he told me they would not do that anymore, and that I should submit a bug report (which I did, but doesn't really do anything for me).

I feel kinda screwed now. How long will I have to wait for a fix? Months? And will I still have to run it 20 times again?

Another question, could I not just abort the raid and then run again, get another shot at a correct 20th list?

Eistander
09-08-2013, 09:43 PM
I'm in the same boat, however when I opened my ticket, I didn't get a notice of the canned response of it being a known issue. Closing in fast, I seriously don't want to sack the next 3 runs for nothing, especially when in-game support won't, you know, support us. I get that this is a "known issue" but seriously detrimental to say the least when we don't even know what the status is on this issue other than that they are aware of it.

Lanadazia
09-11-2013, 02:58 AM
When you fix this, devs, let us see the completions in the patron diary, please please please. It will be more comfortable. The list of the /quest completions command is very uncomfortable to read

/signed

do this, or let us customize the /quest completions displayed quests.
i don't wanna see red fens completions in this list that is named RAID completions. ty!

Arlannis
09-11-2013, 03:44 AM
/signed

do this, or let us customize the /quest completions displayed quests.
i don't wanna see red fens completions in this list that is named RAID completions. ty!
I agree that there's a lot of room for improvements to this whole concept. I'd like to see it presented in a graphic format, perhaps as part of the 'P' panel.

Failing that, I'd at least like to see it be called something less cumbersome to type than '/quest completions'. :)

OTOH, on the relative scale of "Things I'd like to see improved in DDO", this is probably not that high. Getting the counts right, yeah, that's fairly high.

Hutoth
09-12-2013, 04:34 AM
Any update for those folks who have incorrect numbers for raids completed AFTER MOTU?

Stoner81
09-12-2013, 05:26 AM
So are the GM's re-setting counters then or not?

Stoner81.

MeliCat
09-12-2013, 07:57 AM
UPDATE: We have investigated the raid and quest completion counts and have identified the following regarding the counts:

- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.
- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.

We apologize for the confusion this causes to our raiders.


I'm sorry Tolero but I don't understand your post.

If I go /quests and see:
Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 9 / Epic : 0

Does this mean that in order to get my 20th I now have to do 11 heroic DQs? That I can not do 11 epic DQs as the two won't add up? You haven't explicitly stated "Epic and Heroic completions are now two separate counts towards 20ths".

MeliCat
09-12-2013, 07:58 AM
So are the GM's re-setting counters then or not?

Stoner81.

I would really like clarity on this. I have a guildie who got burnt. This whole situation makes me paranoid to run raids. I really count on those 20ths.

Stoner81
09-12-2013, 08:28 AM
I would really like clarity on this. I have a guildie who got burnt. This whole situation makes me paranoid to run raids. I really count on those 20ths.

I have just had my CiTW counter reset to 35 Epic though it shows -35 Heroic but the GM said that this is just a graphics glitch and should sort itself out upon relogging in which I tried and it's still showing the same so it might need a full client restart or something. Either way I have my 35 Epic completions which is where I was before this whole stupid mess started, my advice is just be pleasant and polite with the GM's and they should help :)

Stoner81.

SirValentine
09-12-2013, 04:55 PM
- The number of heroic completion and epic completions for the Caught in the Web raid are both incorrectly showing as completions from Fall of Truth. We will address this error in an upcoming patch.
- Completions of Epic difficulty non-raid quests that occurred prior to Update 19 Patch 1 are listed as heroic in the completion counts (e.g. Phiarlan Carnival). Completions after U19 Patch 1 will appear in the correct column. This will not be corrected.


Those two are, good, and don't care, respectively. However:



- Completions of Epic difficulty that occurred prior to Menace of the Underdark (Update 14) cannot be distinguished from heroic and are treated as heroic completions. You are most likely to experience this if you had played "epic" difficulty from the original Epic system back before the quest entrance UI was split into Epic/Heroic tabs, and Epic Character levels were introduced (suspects include: Vault of Night, Demon Queen, Chronoscope). Epic runs that occurred between MOTU and Shadowfell should properly show in the Epic side of the count. This will not be corrected.


Emphasis added.

Your assumption in BOLD RED is incorrect. Please rethink and give us an update on your BOLD CYAN statement, since it was based on that incorrect assumption. Any update on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

erbgorK
09-13-2013, 01:43 AM
I have just had my CiTW counter reset to 35 Epic though it shows -35 Heroic but the GM said that this is just a graphics glitch and should sort itself out upon relogging in which I tried and it's still showing the same so it might need a full client restart or something. Either way I have my 35 Epic completions which is where I was before this whole stupid mess started, my advice is just be pleasant and polite with the GM's and they should help :)

Stoner81.

Wow are you serious? That would mean that in my last three tickets they chose to not do this even though on principle they do.

It's not like they could have made it worse for me. Thanks for nothing, honestly.

Stoner81
09-13-2013, 07:04 AM
Wow are you serious?

Yes I am.

Stoner81.

psykopeta
09-14-2013, 01:06 PM
everytime i see that thread in last posts can't avoid laughing

so my iconic toon, who never did an heroic raid (mainly because oh well, was over lvl in the heroic raids, that means no bb, in thelanis no bb = no run, unless it's shroud, maybe some difference with non existant abbot, ma, lob and titan) and has some completions!

yay!! he has heroic completions!! so only thinking in tolero's post...what was that? oh yea, that won't be corrected, ofc, they screw it and don't correct it, nice!

conclusion: every time i see that thread in last post can't avoid laughing, my iconic maybe did 1 epic raid each (hey even did some fot and citw raids at heroic lvl! ofc pre motu, ofc) but what about ppl with near 20th completions? or that guy with more than 200? with a total over 2k raid completions? poor guy got screwed, but hey, that won't be corrected

so, everytime i see that thread in last posts can't avoid laughing

btw, AT LEAST, quest completions shouldn't show stuff i didn't run even once (most stuff in that toon) because u know, i don't care about the completions of something I MORE THAN PROLLY KNOW, that i haven't run once (3bc stuff? really? amazing, think i ran it once when i was 20 for favor, never ran it again, with new xp changes there's no need to do so)

Maelphistez
09-14-2013, 09:17 PM
Hello Tolero et al.,

I just wanted to pop into this thread that you started and haven't responded to in over 2 weeks. Why might you be interested in what I have to say? Well, normally this is about the time that I spend another ~$50 in order to buy Turbine Points while the bonus is going. This is the first bonus I have not even considered buying points in over two years. "Why?" you may ask? Because I have a character that I haven't played since the update since his Raid counters are completely borked. I don't want to run raids only to have the counters FURTHER borked in the future if you decide just maybe you'll fix this issue. This is one of my favorite raiding characters now pretty much permanently on the shelf. So.... Cliff Notes Version:

- No communication from Turbine in > two weeks over a problem that seriously affects me and others.

- No direction on if we should ask GMs to "fix" it for us or not.

- Loss of income to Turbine.

- Loss of interest in the game on my part.

What would you have us do Tolero et al.? Take it like a man? Just curious.

Flavilandile
09-15-2013, 04:07 AM
This is Turbine. Communication is... unreliable at best.


So.... Cliff Notes Version:

- No communication from Turbine in > two weeks over a problem that seriously affects me and others.

- No direction on if we should ask GMs to "fix" it for us or not.

- Loss of income to Turbine.

- Loss of interest in the game on my part.

What would you have us do Tolero et al.? Take it like a man? Just curious.

1) See my own quote above in this thread.
2) according to what I've been able to gather there's two kind of GM : the ones that do fix the counters they can fix and the ones that just close the ticket without bothering.
3) definitely, a lot of people have stopped or heavily reduced their raiding because of this mess, and they won't resume it until it is fixed.
As they don't raid some go visit other games, and the longer Turbine takes to address the problem the lower the chances to see them back once it's fixed.
4) well you are not alone... I find myself spending more time playing Civ V or Colonization than before... I even update regularly SWTOR, something I hadn't done for a long time.

macore
09-15-2013, 10:54 PM
Just recently did my 40th on this. Mind you, char made in u16- that's actually when I started this game, true reincarnated in u17, and have been faithfully doing this raid twice a week for the last 5 months.

I started as heroic, about level 15 or so, and have a mess of heroic and epic completions. Of course, this is all I see:
Against the Demon Queen : Heroic: 39 / Epic : 0

My 40th list was full of random junk, not a 20th like i got before.

Put in a gm report, and the response i got was:

The issue you have described has been recorded for review by the In-Game Support team but is not an issue that we can assist with. We recommend that you take a moment to submit a formal bug report at this url: http://ddobugs.turbine.com/ to aid in the research of this issue. Be sure to fully review the information at the top of the bug report form to understand how bug reports are handled. ***NOTE: we are only adjusting CitW and FoT for now. All others need to be bug reported for QA to look at it, thank you.***

So I've bug reported it.

I don't know exactly, but my thoughts are the counter display is wrong. It knows what amount of heroic and epic raids I've done, so I'm not actually -at- 20 completions epic yet. I have a group depending on me to tank this on epic, so I'll be taking my random 40th reward, and I'm hoping someone can confirm or deny this theory. For now, this is what I will assume... and I hope I'm right. 5 months of work is a long time.

Hopin to shake some conversation out of the developement team-

Delacroix21
09-16-2013, 12:24 PM
I just completed my 40th CitW last night (which has held me off a TR for over a month!) only to get random lootgen as an end reward.


Waited online for 3.5 hours for a GM after putting in my ticket, who never came....


I am leaving for ESO as soon as it comes out if things dont change in this game and Devs dont focus more on "game ruining" bugs as opposed to "exploitative" bugs that seem to get fixed ASAP!

Chai
09-16-2013, 01:48 PM
Why is there a heroic/epic for CiTW when theres only an epic version of the raid?

djl
09-16-2013, 05:11 PM
I am leaving for ESO as soon as it comes out if things dont change in this game and Devs dont focus more on "game ruining" bugs as opposed to "exploitative" bugs that seem to get fixed ASAP!

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the DDO community shares this sentiment. I mean, there is like... very little holding people's interest to the game right now. You either TR, or you learn very quickly that at 28 nobody runs anything. And even while TRing, half the time you aren't going to find a group and it gets worse the closer to 20 you get.


--No endgame, even WGU can be completely fairly easily by a decent party on EE. It's just long and grindy, not hard.

--Itemization SUCKS now; they removed or combined the majority of the neat prefixes so that now any random loot you get has a variance of about six different things on it. BOOOOORING. Also, named items are garbage due to the excessive amount of randomly-generated abilities they can spawn with (as well as idiotic +4 enhancement bonuses)

--Raiding, the singular biggest draw in any MMO because it allows a large group of people to work togehter as opposed to a smaller group that inevitably ends up excluding people, is dead. It was killed by a combination of a lack of loot incentive, and the single most destructive decision Turbine ever made by pushing out a buggy, new completion system for something that might or might not happen in the future.

--ASAH, combined with random-gen loot being superior to named loot and EVERYTHING being tradeable, made gearing up your toon entirely too easy. MMOs need grind, whether people like it or not. It is what keeps people playing. Grind is what encourages goal setting-- getting all your uber loot within a week just leaves you with a dull, uninspired feeling of "Well, now what do I do?"

--Last but not least, as you mentioned, the bugs. Every update adds more and more bugs and even brings back bugs that were previously fixed. And a very small percentage of them ever end up being fixed. At some point, something has to give. Players are only willing to endure so much, because they become too frustrated by broken gameplay mechanics, abilities, and content to play anymore.

Velkynn
09-17-2013, 09:43 AM
For Web I was showing as 10 heroic / 9 epic. I submitted tickets and talked to a GM TWICE about the issue before running my 20th. I was told both times that it was simply a display issue, and that their database showed me at 19 completions, so I should have no issues getting my 20th list on the next run. Ran it last night and ..........

Random lootgen garbage. I guess I shouldn't be shocked that they were 100% wrong in what they told me. I've been waiting to TR on this 20th list, and now its a giant mess I will have to attempt to sort out with the GMs.

The most frustrating thing for me is that there is no consistency in what players are being told by GMs. I asked twice for them to manually fix the counters and was refused both times. Unacceptable.

Mephisto-Helix
09-17-2013, 10:55 AM
For Web I was showing as 10 heroic / 9 epic. I submitted tickets and talked to a GM TWICE about the issue before running my 20th. I was told both times that it was simply a display issue, and that their database showed me at 19 completions, so I should have no issues getting my 20th list on the next run. Ran it last night and ..........

Random lootgen garbage. I guess I shouldn't be shocked that they were 100% wrong in what they told me. I've been waiting to TR on this 20th list, and now its a giant mess I will have to attempt to sort out with the GMs.

The most frustrating thing for me is that there is no consistency in what players are being told by GMs. I asked twice for them to manually fix the counters and was refused both times. Unacceptable.

That is tantamount to fraud ...... how someone can be so blatantly lied to is shocking and pathetic and disgusting. You should be ashamed Turbine, bloody well ashamed!

IronClan
09-17-2013, 01:24 PM
no ones running raids at all because of this issue, they weren't running many anyways, but now it's literally NO ONE.

This choice to put in buggy code for a feature that may or may not happen strikes me as the capper to a long list of bungling decisions that is speeding the demize of a game that ALREADY was headed in the wrong direction in terms of player retention and longevity.

Mystera
09-17-2013, 02:34 PM
Still no response from Turbine...interesting...guess they don't give a ****. My brother ran his 20th epic ADQ and didn't get nothing, just a bunch of random gen junk. He has since opened up three help tickets and the GM closes them within 10 mins saying they can't help him. At this point raiding is broken, I would not risk any 20th run. In addition I would suggest boycotting any point buys, let them fix the game before spending any money on it.

djl
09-17-2013, 04:24 PM
no ones running raids at all because of this issue, they weren't running many anyways, but now it's literally NO ONE.

This choice to put in buggy code for a feature that may or may not happen strikes me as the capper to a long list of bungling decisions that is speeding the demize of a game that ALREADY was headed in the wrong direction in terms of player retention and longevity.

It honestly, truly seems like WB has given the order to kill the game.

Don't make it obvious, and do it in such a way that we can nickle and dime the players for everything we can before the game completely dies, but do purposely sabotage it.

Flavilandile
09-18-2013, 01:20 AM
Still no news ?

As a side note yesterday I discovered on my Druid that the VON completion counters said : Heroic 6, Epic 1.

As a Druid she cannot have started running quests before MOTU. ( she was a Cleric before and was TRed into a Druid once it became available )
She definitely hasn't run any Heroic VON.


So anybody from Turbine cares to comment on how broken the counters are and what is going on to try to fix them ? Or is Turbine still it's uncommunicative self ?

krtkoo
09-18-2013, 01:59 AM
Hi,

I had citw counter 3 heroic/ 16 epic. Yesterday I submitted a ticked and politely asked for fiximg it to 19 epic. Gm responded in 2 minutes (mby even faster) and fixed it. After it I ran citw and got 20th raid reward - list of named items and +4 int tome (took pinion). Oh and I didnt have any skill tome, just rewards as used to be.

Krtko

EllisDee37
09-18-2013, 07:28 AM
--Itemization SUCKS now; they removed or combined the majority of the neat prefixes so that now any random loot you get has a variance of about six different things on it. BOOOOORING. Also, named items are garbage due to the excessive amount of randomly-generated abilities they can spawn with (as well as idiotic +4 enhancement bonuses)There's more variation in named items than lootgen, which is sad, really.

mmitch5
09-18-2013, 09:05 AM
Can you share your experience of your 100th 120th raid list
Completions ?
Did you get what was intended in the reward list ?
Asking this because my 40 th FOT end reward gave me
Exactly what I wanted...3 heroic commendations and
À choice of 6 to 8 objects that can be looted on main
Chest and one ridiculous tome of skill
My quest completions is at -1 so maybe it is just the
/quest completions that is borked



Caught in the Web : Heroic: 96 / Epic : 41

I've bought over 130 raid timers for this raid, i was at about 133 completions, on the way to 140 completions.. now im at this? i honestly hope that it will be fixed and that i will be at my 140 completions again (because i've run them on epic normal to epic elite). i only play it for 20th lists ...

Larha78
09-18-2013, 10:28 AM
DQ counter is still borked. Before update I was at 56 after MotU completions, which all went to be heroic. So I ran the last 4 heroic to hit 60 and got the list and what I wanted. After that I've ran 2 epic DQ2s and the completions still go to heroic column. If I've know this I would have ran those 4 missing on epic to even have the abyssmal chance of pulling one of the shards I actually need. Chronos and CitWs go to the right counter now, but DQs don't. I started raiding after MotU so definetly the after MotU completions are not working as Tolero claims they should.

BOgre
09-18-2013, 10:46 AM
the after MotU completions are not working as Tolero claims they should.

I'm sure it's safe to say that Tolero's claims can be ignored. She was given the wrong info, passed it on before it was tested/verified, and consequently was made to look bad. I doubt very much that after all that she's going to rush back here with new info until the fix, if there is one, is implemented and tested.

Our choices right now are to ignore the bug and continue raiding as usual, hoping a fix will be retroactive and address all our issues,

or

Stop raiding until we get more news.

The other issue is GM assistance, but since that problem has existed for years, I wouldn't count on that.

Rubbinns
09-18-2013, 02:14 PM
Yay, I'm at 15 epic and 4 heroic completions for citw currently. Glad I did those heroic citw runs. Can never have enough ml 14 Cleavers.

Flavilandile
09-18-2013, 02:25 PM
I'm sure it's safe to say that Tolero's claims can be ignored. She was given the wrong info, passed it on before it was tested/verified, and consequently was made to look bad. I doubt very much that after all that she's going to rush back here with new info until the fix, if there is one, is implemented and tested.

While I agree in general terms, she could still come back and say that the info she was given was just wrong and that she will keep us updated when she has more info.
That's the basic of Customer Relationship Management ( yes I got the course, I even have the diploma tucked somewhere in my desk. ).

MeliCat
09-18-2013, 03:05 PM
DQ counter is still borked. Before update I was at 56 after MotU completions, which all went to be heroic. So I ran the last 4 heroic to hit 60 and got the list and what I wanted. After that I've ran 2 epic DQ2s and the completions still go to heroic column. If I've know this I would have ran those 4 missing on epic to even have the abyssmal chance of pulling one of the shards I actually need. Chronos and CitWs go to the right counter now, but DQs don't. I started raiding after MotU so definetly the after MotU completions are not working as Tolero claims they should.

Ah. Thanks for this. I'm at 9/0 for DQ and wasn't sure how to read Tolero's OP. 11 heroics seems pretty silly if I'm 22.

Cordovan
09-20-2013, 09:25 AM
From the Update 19 Patch 2 Release Notes:


Raid completion counters have returned to their original state, and now once again track Heroic and Epic completions as one. The /quest completions command now reflects this change.


This change can currently be seen on Lamannia. We expect to have news to share about the "when" of U19p2 hitting the live servers soon.

Rubbinns
09-20-2013, 09:43 AM
From the Update 19 Patch 2 Release Notes:


Raid completion counters have returned to their original state, and now once again track Heroic and Epic completions as one. The /quest completions command now reflects this change.


This change can currently be seen on Lamannia. We expect to have news to share about the "when" of U19p2 hitting the live servers soon.

TY. Now about dem swim tomes ....

cfelicio
09-20-2013, 09:47 AM
From the Update 19 Patch 2 Release Notes:


Raid completion counters have returned to their original state, and now once again track Heroic and Epic completions as one. The /quest completions command now reflects this change.


This change can currently be seen on Lamannia. We expect to have news to share about the "when" of U19p2 hitting the live servers soon.

Hooray! Thanks a million Cordovan!

Hendrik
09-20-2013, 09:50 AM
From the Update 19 Patch 2 Release Notes:


Raid completion counters have returned to their original state, and now once again track Heroic and Epic completions as one. The /quest completions command now reflects this change.


This change can currently be seen on Lamannia. We expect to have news to share about the "when" of U19p2 hitting the live servers soon.

Thanks Jerry!

Looking forward to U19p2!!

Czekojin
09-20-2013, 09:53 AM
This made my day ^^

Healemup
09-20-2013, 10:11 AM
From the Update 19 Patch 2 Release Notes:


Raid completion counters have returned to their original state, and now once again track Heroic and Epic completions as one. The /quest completions command now reflects this change.


This change can currently be seen on Lamannia. We expect to have news to share about the "when" of U19p2 hitting the live servers soon.

I just ran a dragon.

Prior to run EPIC: 37 / HEROIC: 2
After the EPIC run: EPIC: 37 / HEROIC: 3

When they are returned is this now going to be 40 and I won't get a reward? Seriously, I thought I was annoyed when I realized I would have to run it 3 times on HEROIC to get my 40 EPIC completions, but if I have to now run 20 more runs to get a completion list for 60 instead of 40... not going to be pleased.

Seriously, one of the only reason I am still running the quest is to 2 more items that I am hoping to get in the end rewards.

Larha78
09-20-2013, 10:12 AM
You just made me a happy man. Thank you Cordovan and Turbine.

BOgre
09-20-2013, 10:43 AM
Hooray. Huzzah. 3 Cheers. Yippee. And well done.

Now please give us more details regarding lost 20th lists, OFFICIAL word on what the GMs will and will not be able to help with, whether or not the counter recomb is supposed to add our two lists together, what to do when that addition results in another bugged list, or a skipped 20th, whether or not you have a plan to deal with fringe cases and their req hand-fixes, etc. Big enough issue that it requires more than just rolling out the fix, right?

djl
09-20-2013, 11:08 AM
Thank you for finally doing something about this.

It's no help to those who already TR'd, expecting this issue to drag on indefinitely, but it is definitely the best course of action to revert the change. It's only a shame that there was no communication about it until now.

Cordovan
09-20-2013, 11:09 AM
I just ran a dragon.

Prior to run EPIC: 37 / HEROIC: 2
After the EPIC run: EPIC: 37 / HEROIC: 3

When they are returned is this now going to be 40 and I won't get a reward? Seriously, I thought I was annoyed when I realized I would have to run it 3 times on HEROIC to get my 40 EPIC completions, but if I have to now run 20 more runs to get a completion list for 60 instead of 40... not going to be pleased.

Seriously, one of the only reason I am still running the quest is to 2 more items that I am hoping to get in the end rewards.

Anyone who gets in a position of getting "skipped" past a 20th completion after this change is made on the live servers should get in touch with the in-game GM team.

Maelphistez
09-20-2013, 11:18 AM
Thank you for the fix. And how should we word our GM request after the update and what will be the resolution? As in.... "Excuse me, I completed a 20th run of CitW while the counters were not working properly... can you fix this?" And the GM will then spawn us an end reward list? Give us our item of choice? Just curious how this will work as I will be one of the ones affected.

Kaytis
09-20-2013, 11:35 AM
Anyone who gets in a position of getting "skipped" past a 20th completion after this change is made on the live servers should get in touch with the in-game GM team.

Every member of the GM team should be trained as to exactly how to recognize this problem when reported, and exactly what to do to fix it. They should be told that they will not be penalized for escalating the problem if they cannot fix it. There is no longer any excuse for any player to be cheated out of a 20th reward because a GM does not know what they are doing.

Just saying.

Silverleafeon
09-20-2013, 12:30 PM
From the Update 19 Patch 2 Release Notes:


Raid completion counters have returned to their original state, and now once again track Heroic and Epic completions as one. The /quest completions command now reflects this change.


This change can currently be seen on Lamannia. We expect to have news to share about the "when" of U19p2 hitting the live servers soon.

This was a big mess, don't let the GMs get lazy on us.
They will have the ability to fix this.
They will have the ability to compensate.
They should do it.

File your tickets, and shame on GMs who refuse to reset after patch.

Silverleafeon
09-20-2013, 12:32 PM
This is what I was told by your customer service.
If it is wrong, I went by it.

Make them behave.
Make things right after the patch.

Silverleafeon
09-20-2013, 12:33 PM
Raid counters being messed up is a good part of less people playing atm.

Don't be cheap, fix it after the patch.

Gratch
09-20-2013, 12:37 PM
This was a big mess, don't let the GMs get lazy on us.
They will have the ability to fix this.
They will have the ability to compensate.
They should do it.

File your tickets, and shame on GMs who refuse to reset after patch.

Wish the GM's had the ability to give us back the 300k+ plat some of us have spent per character getting around enhancement UI accept problems, incorrectly grayed until accept, and invisibly removed AP's from the enhancement redo. Cordo... you guys were supposed to 1/4 rate with cap the enhancement reset prices for at least an update until you get those UI bugs fixed. Who let the greedy ball drop?

These bugs don't happen every time. But I have yet to spec and accept AoV in one try ever. Top two tiers always get ripped off and then you do the select one item and accept dance. The problem comes when you accept... think you have those enhancements locked, go and spend AP in other place only to find the top tier abilities missing and you're out of AP and have to reset.

We're learning to get around these bugs but the platSlap doesn't help when we do need to reset.

djl
09-20-2013, 01:19 PM
Wish the GM's had the ability to give us back the 300k+ plat some of us have spent per character getting around enhancement UI accept problems, incorrectly grayed until accept, and invisibly removed AP's from the enhancement redo. Cordo... you guys were supposed to 1/4 rate with cap the enhancement reset prices for at least an update until you get those UI bugs fixed. Who let the greedy ball drop?

These bugs don't happen every time. But I have yet to spec and accept AoV in one try ever. Top two tiers always get ripped off and then you do the select one item and accept dance. The problem comes when you accept... think you have those enhancements locked, go and spend AP in other place only to find the top tier abilities missing and you're out of AP and have to reset.

We're learning to get around these bugs but the platSlap doesn't help when we do need to reset.

Fool me once, etc.

Since the devs don't seem to be much help with issues like the enhancement UI bug, it falls to the players to compensate. It's not fair, but it is what it is. Complain in hopes the devs decide to listen, or learn how to not get ripped off by a broken system. Develop a habit of exiting out of the enhancement window every time you hit accept. Do NOT spend the "free" points you see after you hit accept, or you will screw up your enhancements. After you close the enhancement panel and reopen it, it refreshes your abilities and properly reflects what you have really purchased. In almost all cases, this means it shows that the top two tiers do not have the points spent in them.

Lighti2
09-20-2013, 02:20 PM
Any chance of splitting the Raids and Quest completions seeing as the list is ridiculously long now, say

/Quest Completions

and

/Raid Completions

BOgre
09-20-2013, 08:31 PM
Any chance of splitting the Raids and Quest completions seeing as the list is ridiculously long now, say

/Quest Completions

and

/Raid Completions

Pandora's Box, meet Can of Worms.

Atremus
09-21-2013, 04:57 PM
Any chance of splitting the Raids and Quest completions seeing as the list is ridiculously long now, say

/Quest Completions

and

/Raid Completions

Completions need their own page now.

O - online
I - Inv
C - Completions!!!!!

XiaNYdE
09-22-2013, 12:22 AM
Completions need their own page now.

O - online
I - Inv
C - Completions!!!!!

Personally i have never understood why they aren't just listed in the compendium??

I mean every quest and raid is listed there, along with groups/favour and difficulty completed, why cant a completion count just be added to that??

Atremus
09-22-2013, 08:27 AM
Personally i have never understood why they aren't just listed in the compendium??



I think that would be a good quick fix, but the Developers need to implement a page or quest log that gives us information about SAGA's, Daily XP Ransacks, Timers and Completions.

AuraAten
09-22-2013, 02:27 PM
My raid counter is not fixed, it still tells me that I have completed CiTW on heroic 3 times.

Missing_Minds
09-22-2013, 03:47 PM
Anyone who gets in a position of getting "skipped" past a 20th completion after this change is made on the live servers should get in touch with the in-game GM team.

Yeah. And the GM solution?

Roll back your counter by 1 and give you a raid timer bypass.

But I think all further counting of completions apply to epic.

EllisDee37
09-22-2013, 06:13 PM
Not sure if this has been touched on in this thread, but one of the release notes (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376774-Lamannia-Release-Notes-%28Last-Updated-9-12-2013%29) for the current lammania build that (presumably) is going live tomorrow morning:


Raid completion counters have returned to their original state, and now once again track Heroic and Epic completions as one. The /quest completions command now reflects this change.

IlmerSilverhilt
09-23-2013, 12:16 PM
Anyone who gets in a position of getting "skipped" past a 20th completion after this change is made on the live servers should get in touch with the in-game GM team.
Sorry Jerry, a Senior GM just told me they can no longer help. They were ably to help up untill todays patch.

Grats, guess you tricked us all again!

Ilmer

Retrodark
09-23-2013, 12:45 PM
Sorry Jerry, Senior GM +Ogdred+ just told me they can no longer help. They were ably to help up untill todays patch.

Grats, guess you tricked us all again!

Ilmer

Okay, so I ran my "20th" CITW completion a little over a week ago (it was at -8/28). A GM reset it to 19, but it said (1/19), so technically still at 20 total. I mentioned that it still had the 1 in there and was worried that it would goof me up. He said it shouldn't. I was still reluctant to run it until this patch came out thinking it might not work correctly (no named end reward). So, much to my dismay today, I see that my count is now at 20. I opened a ticket and I got the following B.S. from Senior GM +Caspian+.

"(Admin): +Caspian+ tells you, 'As of the patch today, everyone was set to the correct number of completions and no further manual adjustments will be made."

After explaining that this was supposed to be fixed in my previous ticket, they just kept repeating the same thing, and said "(Admin): +Caspian+ tells you, 'You are at the correct completion count, it will not be changed again."

So, I guess I paid the price for not running the quest again before the patch. The GM tried to offer the following to alleviate my pain (5 x raid timer resets, 5 x Large Jewel of Fortune, and 15 Astral Shards (whoopie on that one)), but would offer no further assistance in reference to resetting of my counter. It was at least something, but when you get jipped out of the end reward like this and now need to run it another 20 times, it makes me want to rage quit. I am definitely not spending another dime on this game, unless they come to a better resolution for this.

Stoner81
09-23-2013, 02:23 PM
Not sure if this has been touched on in this thread, but one of the release notes (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376774-Lamannia-Release-Notes-%28Last-Updated-9-12-2013%29) for the current lammania build that (presumably) is going live tomorrow morning:


"(Admin): +Caspian+ tells you, 'As of the patch today, everyone was set to the correct number of completions and no further manual adjustments will be made."

WELL CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN TURBINE ONCE AGAIN YOU BEND US OVER AND ROYALLY SHAFT US! What next? You want us to enjoy it too I suppose!

Before the update I was at 37 completions for CiTW and had my counter fixed by a GM but because it showed -35 Heroic I am back at 2! ****ing 2! Are you ****ing ******** me here! I was 3 away from my 40th and you have bent me over and given it me every which way and to cap it off GM's will do **** all about it!

So they **** it all up, some get it fixed by GM's and then they **** it up again trying to fix the original **** up!

Stoner81.

PS - Yes this post contains a lot of swearing but I am beyond pee'd off here!

BOgre
09-23-2013, 08:15 PM
What a shock.

Cord, Tolero, Turbine: Yet another half baked un-fix. When will you figure out that your GMs are NOT being given sufficient instruction? When will you learn that your FIRST priority should be to satisfying your customers? When will you finally, some day, one day, hopefully, implement ONE BUG FREE CHANGE? I'd settle for ONE BUG FREE FIX.

blackdoguk
09-23-2013, 09:57 PM
Anyone who gets in a position of getting "skipped" past a 20th completion after this change is made on the live servers should get in touch with the in-game GM team.

My counters were skipped, and I have now over 20 epic completions. I got this

(Admin): [removed] tells you, 'Greetings, Fizzburn! I am a Game Master for Online Support and will be with you momentarily. You can reply to my messages by typing /r and entering your message.'
(Admin): [removed] tells you, 'In-Game Support is not changing or otherwise affecting raid completion counts going forward, in any manner. Vault of Night was not being "fixed" to begin with, prior to today's update.'

What gives?

BOgre
09-23-2013, 10:43 PM
My counters were skipped, and I have now over 20 epic completions. I got this

(Admin): [removed] tells you, 'Greetings, Fizzburn! I am a Game Master for Online Support and will be with you momentarily. You can reply to my messages by typing /r and entering your message.'
(Admin): [removed] tells you, 'In-Game Support is not changing or otherwise affecting raid completion counts going forward, in any manner. Vault of Night was not being "fixed" to begin with, prior to today's update.'

What gives?

See now, this REALLY needs attention. [Removed] is one of the GMs that has ALWAYS been fair, speedy, friendly, efficient, and knowledgeable. I've never had an encounter with him that didn't end with my issue resolved.

Which means that it's not a case of the GMs being misinformed and unable to do their jobs right, it's a case of the GMs being explicitly instructed NOT TO HELP us. So those of us that did get a skipped list during the 'bug', were ALWAYS being set up to be ripped off. Turbine had no intention of ever making this right for us. Shame on you Turbine.

I'd advise anyone getting this kind of customer service to go immediately to the BBB and file a claim. www.bbb.org (http://www.bbb.org)

In a nutshell, the core functionality of the game we're paying for was broken by the company, with no intention of ever compensating the customer, nor any attempt made to come to mutual agreement. [Removed] statement that certain raids (in this case VoN), were never slated to be acted on certainly proves that.

blackdoguk
09-23-2013, 11:50 PM
See now, this REALLY needs attention. Rothgar is one of the GMs that has ALWAYS been fair, speedy, friendly, efficient, and knowledgeable. I've never had an encounter with him that didn't end with my issue resolved.

Which means that it's not a case of the GMs being misinformed and unable to do their jobs right, it's a case of the GMs being explicitly instructed NOT TO HELP us. So those of us that did get a skipped list during the 'bug', were ALWAYS being set up to be ripped off. Turbine had no intention of ever making this right for us. Shame on you Turbine.

I'd advise anyone getting this kind of customer service to go immediately to the BBB and file a claim. www.bbb.org (http://www.bbb.org)

In a nutshell, the core functionality of the game we're paying for was broken by the company, with no intention of ever compensating the customer, nor any attempt made to come to mutual agreement. Rothgar's statement that certain raids (in this case VoN), were never slated to be acted on certainly proves that.

Thanks for that. I live in Scotland, so not sure I would have the consumer protection you would be entitled to. Kinda waiting for Cordovan to chime in as he said in this thread and on DDO Cast that it wouldn't be a problem. Please sort this out Turbine, it's a considerable investment of my time.

BOgre
09-24-2013, 01:06 AM
Thanks for that. I live in Scotland, so not sure I would have the consumer protection you would be entitled to. Kinda waiting for Cordovan to chime in as he said in this thread and on DDO Cast that it wouldn't be a problem. Please sort this out Turbine, it's a considerable investment of my time.

The BBB doesn't really have any "clout" in any jurisdiction... The most they can do is put a black mark under Turbines name (well, it's more complicated than that, check out the site, you'll see). But where the devs may turn a deaf ear, the suits that would be contacted by the BBB do not. That is to say, Turbine has a pretty good track record for keeping their BBB listing as clean as they can. Claims tend to show "Resolved" more often than not. Again, check it out. You'll see. What's more, once a claim like yours is filed, not only does Turbine take notice and perform a hand fix, they also seem to trickle-down that fix to the rest of the community. The cases are all there for anyone to see.

So yeah, even though you're not in the U.S./Canada, I'd still go and see what they can do.

blackdoguk
09-24-2013, 01:17 AM
The BBB doesn't really have any "clout" in any jurisdiction... The most they can do is put a black mark under Turbines name (well, it's more complicated than that, check out the site, you'll see). But where the devs may turn a deaf ear, the suits that would be contacted by the BBB do not. That is to say, Turbine has a pretty good track record for keeping their BBB listing as clean as they can. Claims tend to show "Resolved" more often than not. Again, check it out. You'll see. What's more, once a claim like yours is filed, not only does Turbine take notice and perform a hand fix, they also seem to trickle-down that fix to the rest of the community. The cases are all there for anyone to see.

So yeah, even though you're not in the U.S./Canada, I'd still go and see what they can do.

Thanks for your help, appreciate your assistance

EllisDee37
09-24-2013, 01:23 AM
I wonder if Turbine is aware just how bad this entire situation looks.

Stoner81
09-24-2013, 06:21 AM
I wonder if Turbine is aware just how bad this entire situation looks.

I think it's more a case of they don't give a Kobolds ass what it looks like to be honest m8 :(

Stoner81.

Mystera
09-25-2013, 08:35 AM
I just ran a dragon.

Prior to run EPIC: 37 / HEROIC: 2
After the EPIC run: EPIC: 37 / HEROIC: 3

When they are returned is this now going to be 40 and I won't get a reward? Seriously, I thought I was annoyed when I realized I would have to run it 3 times on HEROIC to get my 40 EPIC completions, but if I have to now run 20 more runs to get a completion list for 60 instead of 40... not going to be pleased.

Seriously, one of the only reason I am still running the quest is to 2 more items that I am hoping to get in the end rewards.


Anyone who gets in a position of getting "skipped" past a 20th completion after this change is made on the live servers should get in touch with the in-game GM team.

Should have know Turbine was going to muff this up. Cordovan is wrong. My brother was on his 19th Epic ADQ run before this fiasco, then they made the change and his 19 epics turned into 19 heroics. He then ran Epic 2 more times and never got a 20th reward list. Now that they reset things, he is showing 21 Epic runs, so he got screwed from his 20th reward. He opened up 5 tickets last night and the GM told him that they were not going to reset anything. He even linked them Cordovan's response that I linked above, and the GM said he didn't care. So he got screwed his 20th run. They offered 5x raid timers and 5x large gems, but please tell me how that compensates someone for the 20x raids he ran to get an item? That is messed up. I feel for anyone else that got screwed.

Healemup
09-27-2013, 10:48 AM
Anyone who gets in a position of getting "skipped" past a 20th completion after this change is made on the live servers should get in touch with the in-game GM team.

As you can imagine, the worst has actually happened. My dragon counter was 40 when I logged in. So, I did as you suggested and in less than the time it took for me to type to a guildie that I had submitted the ticket, it was closed without any conversation with a GM. I read the details in the ticket and it read that they could not help and that I should submit a bug report. I did that. But, since bug reporting doesn't allow to get any help with your situation individually, I contacted support via the web and they replied in the email that I should contact in-game support... yes... they are sending me in circles.

So, just to see if maybe something might pop up in my next run, I completed #41 and, of course, no list.

Is there going to be anything done to help with this? I am only glad that it was a dragon, so the item list isn't actually all that critical. But, since I am actually looking for a base item, it is an annoyance to me.

Healemup
09-27-2013, 10:49 AM
Should have know Turbine was going to muff this up. Cordovan is wrong. My brother was on his 19th Epic ADQ run before this fiasco, then they made the change and his 19 epics turned into 19 heroics. He then ran Epic 2 more times and never got a 20th reward list. Now that they reset things, he is showing 21 Epic runs, so he got screwed from his 20th reward. He opened up 5 tickets last night and the GM told him that they were not going to reset anything. He even linked them Cordovan's response that I linked above, and the GM said he didn't care. So he got screwed his 20th run. They offered 5x raid timers and 5x large gems, but please tell me how that compensates someone for the 20x raids he ran to get an item? That is messed up. I feel for anyone else that got screwed.

I got nothing except an auto-close of my ticket.

Retrodark
09-29-2013, 01:48 AM
Here is the transcript from my in-game support ticket today.

(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'Raid completion counts are now being displayed correctly, as of Update 19.2. The In-Game Support team is unable to roll completions back or otherwise affecting completion counts going forward.'
(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'I can however offer you some items to help you along to your next milestone.'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'but they supposedly fixed me to 19 just before the patch, and it is now showing 20 after the patch, so I never got a 20th reward'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'and now I need to run it 20 more times'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'to reach that milestone again'
(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'I apologize, however we do not have a way to change this currently.'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'so the commands they used before do not work anymore?'
(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'I see actually that when you submitted a ticket after the patch they sent you the items. I have already granted the shards so I will not remove them.'
(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'As I have stated we can not make changes at this time.'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'will you be able to in the near future and why did Cordovan say to use the ingame support to fix it if we get skipped?'
(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'I would recommend posting any feedback on how this works on the forums.'
(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'I do not have any further information on this unfortunately.'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'how it works? Meaning you do not fix the issues?'
(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'Sorry I meant just any feedback on this issue.'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'okay while appreciate the attempt to alleviate my pain with 5 raid timers, that hardly constitutes for 20 more runs'
(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'That was what we can do. If you wish to submit any feedback about the policies you can do so at our support site, http://support.turbine.com/.'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'feedback doesn't get answered, so I don't know how that can help me or anyone else in this situation'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'I have sent feedback and bug reports for this issue'
(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'There is nothing further that can be done by in-game support for this.'
(Admin): +Caergoth+ tells you, 'Was there anything else I can assist with at this time?'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'I guess not for now. Maybe I can try in another week or so'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'hopefully the policy changes by then'
(Tell): You tell +Caergoth+, 'hopefully the policy changes by then'
....
Ticket closed

mrphlegm
09-29-2013, 03:49 AM
Turbine, always setting the bar lower hehe

BOgre
09-29-2013, 03:56 AM
Seems Turbine have been handling their BBB complaints with canned responses as well this past year. Real shame... anyways, here's the link, hope you can get some satisfaction:

Better Business Bureau - Turbine Complaint (https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started/?source=cibr&bbbid=0021&bid=81889)

Stoner81
10-10-2013, 09:13 PM
So no further comment by anybody from Turbine except for Cordovan editing peoples posts and removing GM names, not a single acknowledgment of the colossal eff up that this whole thing has been. I for one want to know what the hell you are going to do about this since this is entirely your fault Turbine.

Do you even wonder why people stop playing hell do you even care!

Stoner81.

JOTMON
10-10-2013, 10:04 PM
So no further comment by anybody from Turbine except for Cordovan editing peoples posts and removing GM names, not a single acknowledgment of the colossal eff up that this whole thing has been. I for one want to know what the hell you are going to do about this since this is entirely your fault Turbine.

Do you even wonder why people stop playing hell do you even care!

Stoner81.

I had my FOT and CITW 40ths coincide at the same time in hopes of getting tomes and potentially avoid any duplicate ones if more than one came up on the list.
Turns out I got nothing for both 40ths just regular run junk list., kept running thinking it would show up on the 41st or 42nd..45th... nothing..., the so called "fix" fixed nothing.
I still didn't get my incremental end rewards.
GM blew me off didn't care what Cordovan said, they wouldn't do anything offered some XP pot and some store junk.. told them I wanted resolution not some BS tokens.
Got the canned GM is no longer accepting messages, auto-closed ticket and still no resolution.

So the question becomes..
Is Cordovan empowered to direct GM's to fix things, or is he BS'ing us.

I don't have my incremental's fixed,, so I know what my vote is.

BOgre
10-10-2013, 11:43 PM
I had my FOT and CITW 40ths coincide at the same time in hopes of getting tomes and potentially avoid any duplicate ones if more than one came up on the list.
Turns out I got nothing for both 40ths just regular run junk list., kept running thinking it would show up on the 41st or 42nd..45th... nothing..., the so called "fix" fixed nothing.
I still didn't get my incremental end rewards.
GM blew me off didn't care what Cordovan said, they wouldn't do anything offered some XP pot and some store junk.. told them I wanted resolution not some BS tokens.
Got the canned GM is no longer accepting messages, auto-closed ticket and still no resolution.

So the question becomes..
Is Cordovan empowered to direct GM's to fix things, or is he BS'ing us.

I don't have my incremental's fixed,, so I know what my vote is.

www.bbb.org (http://www.bbb.org)

2pleasegimmie
10-11-2013, 12:32 AM
Thanks for that. I live in Scotland, so not sure I would have the consumer protection you would be entitled to. Kinda waiting for Cordovan to chime in as he said in this thread and on DDO Cast that it wouldn't be a problem. Please sort this out Turbine, it's a considerable investment of my time.

Jurisdiction over Turbine by the BBB is based on them both operating in the US.

BOgre
10-11-2013, 02:36 AM
Jurisdiction over Turbine by the BBB is based on them both operating in the US.

Only if Turbine is BBB Certified. They are not. So a complaint against Turbine on the BBB is only that, a complaint. However, Complaints don't go to Cordovan or such, they go to a Suit. And those complaints 'tend' to be handled more or less quickly. Turbine wants to at least show an effort made on their BBB listing.

NaturalHazard
10-13-2013, 07:56 PM
I just ran a dragon.

Prior to run EPIC: 37 / HEROIC: 2
After the EPIC run: EPIC: 37 / HEROIC: 3

When they are returned is this now going to be 40 and I won't get a reward? Seriously, I thought I was annoyed when I realized I would have to run it 3 times on HEROIC to get my 40 EPIC completions, but if I have to now run 20 more runs to get a completion list for 60 instead of 40... not going to be pleased.

Seriously, one of the only reason I am still running the quest is to 2 more items that I am hoping to get in the end rewards.

Im sort of in the same boat, when the completions where split I was close to 40 and 60th for von and dq2 on 3 different characters, I still ran them now its counted them as correct but its put me over the 40th and 60th mark for completions with no list lol. I guess my bad for actually running the content till it was finally fixed eh? Though now I don't really feel that motivated to run them anymore, yay another 19 or 18 runs to see a list when I originally was at 1-3 or so on those toons, even more yay when now I might have a shot at shards that I would prob never see, im happy about that so another 2 months of so of running em would be a small sacrifice no?

But why can't I be bothered now to put up an lfm for von5-6 or dq2 or even join one? Thats when I even bother now to log into the game?

barecm
10-16-2013, 09:32 AM
Best thing to do is start calling customer support. I have found that talking to a person to be more effective in both getting the message across as well as helping you out. If they cannot fix the issue, you can at least bargain for some Turbine points or something else. Posting on the boards is posting to a black hole. I seriously doubt they even read all the complaints and therefore, you get nothing as a result.

hkusp45
10-16-2013, 11:01 AM
Yeh Im approaching my 100th FOT , I have received a +5 tome for my end reward on my 40th & 80th completion, So that's a nice % on getting one from your list .....hoping for another on my 100th cause you should make it a 100% for a +5 to be available for an end reward on the 20-40-60-80-100 completions to make up for the Borked completion list you had

andy310
10-18-2013, 06:59 PM
What I don't get is:
IS this fixed?

(If not WHY THE HELL NOT? Should it not be a TOP PRIORITY fix? but that's irrelevant to my - sitting on 19th on all raids and wanting to TR - situation)
And the reason I ask you folks is that I trust turbine and it's employees as much as i'd trust an alqueda terrorist with a bomb vest.

Post Factum:
I actually ended up testing this in a no cleric scroll powered CITW. Figured if I was to get skunked I might as well do it in style no? Turns out the list IS factually fixed. for anyone else wondering.