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View Full Version : Love how you added the AA tree



voodoogroves
08-28-2013, 09:04 AM
Carry it forward for other thematics / racials. Beyond just "race" I'd love to see them added to other options.

(a) Power of the Storm (Half Elf, last Dragonmark) -> Air Savant tree
(b) Dwarven Fortress -> Stalwart
etc.

Go crazy nuts. With the limits on the # of trees, and frankly, the amount of AP some of these require I think there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

- Racial entries
- Dragonmark entries ... the PNP game has thematic PRC options for each of the DM lines, why not open it up
- Cross-class entries (like savants on wizards, AM/PM on sorcs ... hell even Henshin going to Fire Savant - whatever

SiliconShadow
08-28-2013, 09:28 AM
Carry it forward for other thematics / racials. Beyond just "race" I'd love to see them added to other options.

(a) Power of the Storm (Half Elf, last Dragonmark) -> Air Savant tree
(b) Dwarven Fortress -> Stalwart
etc.

Go crazy nuts. With the limits on the # of trees, and frankly, the amount of AP some of these require I think there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

- Racial entries
- Dragonmark entries ... the PNP game has thematic PRC options for each of the DM lines, why not open it up
- Cross-class entries (like savants on wizards, AM/PM on sorcs ... hell even Henshin going to Fire Savant - whatever

An AM/PM sorc would be insanely powerful. The thought of this power alone makes me want to cry. A sorc with wizard DCs..

voodoogroves
08-28-2013, 10:52 AM
An AM/PM sorc would be insanely powerful. The thought of this power alone makes me want to cry. A sorc with wizard DCs..

Depends. I'd think not - for several reasons. You're probably assuming some sort of scenario where they'd allow entry for free, no cost, etc.

First, any of these cross-tree adds can be put deeper the source tree - what if a Savant had to take the "other focus" ability for "force" to get AM? What if it was an adder at T4 or so, requiring x AP to be spent already?

Second, PMs are dipping into AM for their DCs - getting extra INT and possibly extra DC specialization from AM. Sorcs aren't going to get bonus CHA from either tree natively. Plus, those 5 extra feats on a wizard are pretty useful ... as are the spell slots. I'm not sure about you - but I'm pretty spell constrained on some key levels on my PM already - imagine doing that with 2-3 less spell slots at each level.

Chai
08-29-2013, 09:29 AM
An AM/PM sorc would be insanely powerful. The thought of this power alone makes me want to cry. A sorc with wizard DCs..

80 points is already proving to be enough of a limitation. We can buuild powerful toons, but not godmod to the point of trivializing everything. If someone made a sorc and then went up the AM tree, theyd have to sacrifice something from sorc tree, compared to a wizard who can score up everything good in the entire tree if they want and still have enough left over for some necro abilities.

Its like ~14 points to get to the PRE in the racial tree. Then its an elven wiz. Spend points in AM + PM + Savant line. Which is being capped? If its the AM for instance, you now have 55 points spent, and have 25 left over for necro + air savant.

While i think it would be powerful, I dont think it would turn into the "no need to roll anything else" FOTM easy button.

voodoogroves
08-29-2013, 09:41 AM
80 points is already proving to be enough of a limitation. We can buuild powerful toons, but not godmod to the point of trivializing everything. If someone made a sorc and then went up the AM tree, theyd have to sacrifice something from sorc tree, compared to a wizard who can score up everything good in the entire tree if they want and still have enough left over for some necro abilities.

Its like ~14 points to get to the PRE in the racial tree. Then its an elven wiz. Spend points in AM + PM + Savant line. Which is being capped? If its the AM for instance, you now have 55 points spent, and have 25 left over for necro + air savant.

While i think it would be powerful, I dont think it would turn into the "no need to roll anything else" FOTM easy button.

Yep - one good thing w/ the enhancement pass is now we suffer from choice of several viable paths in many cases. That makes balancing easier - everyone has a few more feats to spare, but the real constraint now is on AP.

I'm fine with it having some sort of cost - every bit hurts. Even if it is later in the tree requiring a higher level of a general AP spend (heck, don't give it a pre-req, just require X number of points spent progression) that will force you to spend less in your later-added trees.