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Pehtis
08-26-2013, 04:58 AM
I have a Human level 23 Tempest exploiter build (1Rogue,1Monk,18Ranger). That was done over 2 years ago. That old build required taking the Feats: Toughness, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Oversized Weapons, Khopesh. Can't remember what else. I also took Epic Strength without much thought when I return to the game a few months back.

1) Splash Class Monk
I am wondering whether I should keep the monk level (+2 saves and I think no BAB) or replace it with Fighter (+1 BAB if monk was zero). Both give extra martial feat. I no longer use robes since physical resistance was introduced which meant I don't use hand wraps anymore (due to uncentered) either.

Or should I consider something else?


2) Feat changes
I think I will keep the Dodge Feat (somehow I also have Uncanny Dodge) as my current dodge is at 16% which is kinda useful. Will lose some dodge if remove Spring / Mobility.

I was actually thinking of removing Spring Attack (+2% dodge) for Improved Trip. Never played a trip character and I'm not sure how much DC I need to pull this off at advanced levels/epics (re 20+). My base Str (no gear or tomes) is at 22 (16 +5 level +1epic).

Combat Expertise was a complete waste BUT will have to keep it if I am to take Improved Trip.

Advice/Thoughts on what should be removed and replaced would be appreciated.

3) Epic Feat
I took Epic Strength without thinking. Was thinking Epic Haste might be better option. Does the speed stack with Tempest and other speed Items, boosts, or haste pots?

Is there a better Epic Feat I should consider?


Thanks in advance.

Old_Skool
08-26-2013, 10:42 AM
Can't answer your question but will be watching this thread closely as I have almost the same one (same level, too). I have a Tempest/Kensai mix using khopesh, but with the new enhancement trees it doesn't work as well. I'm thinking of going Ranger 18 / Rogue 2, but want to double check feats before I waste my +20 HoW. Also, is there any point to taking Toughness now that I don't see feat-dependent HP enhancements on the trees? Thanks for posting!

Inoukchuk
08-26-2013, 01:06 PM
I have a Human level 23 Tempest exploiter build (1Rogue,1Monk,18Ranger). That was done over 2 years ago. That old build required taking the Feats: Toughness, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Oversized Weapons, Khopesh. Can't remember what else. I also took Epic Strength without much thought when I return to the game a few months back.

1) Splash Class Monk
I am wondering whether I should keep the monk level (+2 saves and I think no BAB) or replace it with Fighter (+1 BAB if monk was zero). Both give extra martial feat. I no longer use robes since physical resistance was introduced which meant I don't use hand wraps anymore (due to uncentered) either.

Or should I consider something else?


2) Feat changes
I think I will keep the Dodge Feat (somehow I also have Uncanny Dodge) as my current dodge is at 16% which is kinda useful. Will lose some dodge if remove Spring / Mobility.

I was actually thinking of removing Spring Attack (+2% dodge) for Improved Trip. Never played a trip character and I'm not sure how much DC I need to pull this off at advanced levels/epics (re 20+). My base Str (no gear or tomes) is at 22 (16 +5 level +1epic).

Combat Expertise was a complete waste BUT will have to keep it if I am to take Improved Trip.

Advice/Thoughts on what should be removed and replaced would be appreciated.

3) Epic Feat
I took Epic Strength without thinking. Was thinking Epic Haste might be better option. Does the speed stack with Tempest and other speed Items, boosts, or haste pots?

Is there a better Epic Feat I should consider?


Thanks in advance.

I don't have a ranger right now, and therefore haven't played one with the new enhancements, but I played one last life and so I'll share some insights.

For starters, if you want tactics feats like trip or stun you want your str to be close to 60 (some will tell you mid 60s, but they only consider it worthwhile if it lands 90% of the time on epic elite, while I think it's useful even at 50%) and even then, only if you can add other bonuses to get your tactics DC up to 60ish (+10 item, +5 exceptional, +6 twist from LD, + enhancements). If you can hit 60 it should provide nice benefits, but I'm not sure you can spare 2 feats for it.

As for building with the new enhancements, there are several things to consider.
1) the new capstone (which might be broken currently?) makes playing pure kind of appealing
2) toughness feat is no longer required to grant access to HP enhancements and is therefore of questionable value, so on a feat starved class like ranger it may be worth dropping (so long as you can still get reasonable HP)
3) dex based is now viable for the right build, but it has to be just the right build. I'm personally trying to build one now (you can see another thread I started asking for enhancement advice), and I'm struggling with the idea wondering whether STR is still superior. Going with dex frees up some feats (khopesh, OTWF, OC) while also giving you access to the best 1 handed DPS weapon pre-update 19 (Balizarde) and giving you bonus damage with both rapiers and bows. Overall I like my current build idea but.... I was H-Orc 12 rng/8ftr last life with stunning blow and I will REALLY miss stunning blow, and khopesh is the best generic (non-named) weapon in the game so it's hard to give that up while leveling. I'm trying to figure out how well the elf and ranger enhancements actually play with rapiers before I decide (my toon is only level 15 this life so I have time). If it works out it will increase AC, dodge, reflex saves over last life without losing any damage and give me 4th level spells, which I sorely missed last life. Currently I thing if you are going to have STR under 50 you might as well go dex based and make it work.

For feats I consider required for melee:
PA, cleave, GC (yes, even on TWF), imp crit
Everything else depends on build


And that reminds me... will PA work with dex-to-damage enhancements? ****!

valecrion
08-27-2013, 08:52 PM
And that reminds me... will PA work with dex-to-damage enhancements? ****!

Yes, PA works with Grace (dex-to-damage).

Pehtis
08-29-2013, 11:59 AM
I don't have a ranger right now, and therefore haven't played one with the new enhancements, but I played one last life and so I'll share some insights.

For starters, if you want tactics feats like trip or stun you want your str to be close to 60 (some will tell you mid 60s, but they only consider it worthwhile if it lands 90% of the time on epic elite, while I think it's useful even at 50%) and even then, only if you can add other bonuses to get your tactics DC up to 60ish (+10 item, +5 exceptional, +6 twist from LD, + enhancements). If you can hit 60 it should provide nice benefits, but I'm not sure you can spare 2 feats for it.

As for building with the new enhancements, there are several things to consider.
1) the new capstone (which might be broken currently?) makes playing pure kind of appealing
2) toughness feat is no longer required to grant access to HP enhancements and is therefore of questionable value, so on a feat starved class like ranger it may be worth dropping (so long as you can still get reasonable HP)
3) dex based is now viable for the right build, but it has to be just the right build. I'm personally trying to build one now (you can see another thread I started asking for enhancement advice), and I'm struggling with the idea wondering whether STR is still superior. Going with dex frees up some feats (khopesh, OTWF, OC) while also giving you access to the best 1 handed DPS weapon pre-update 19 (Balizarde) and giving you bonus damage with both rapiers and bows. Overall I like my current build idea but.... I was H-Orc 12 rng/8ftr last life with stunning blow and I will REALLY miss stunning blow, and khopesh is the best generic (non-named) weapon in the game so it's hard to give that up while leveling. I'm trying to figure out how well the elf and ranger enhancements actually play with rapiers before I decide (my toon is only level 15 this life so I have time). If it works out it will increase AC, dodge, reflex saves over last life without losing any damage and give me 4th level spells, which I sorely missed last life. Currently I thing if you are going to have STR under 50 you might as well go dex based and make it work.

For feats I consider required for melee:
PA, cleave, GC (yes, even on TWF), imp crit
Everything else depends on build


And that reminds me... will PA work with dex-to-damage enhancements? ****!


How do you get Str to 60 and beyond? My Str based fighter (heroic atm) with all boosts gets to close 40. This is ranger with no access to stacking +6psionic (need to find a clicky). If this magical 60+ is needed for improved trip to work at high levels then what you are basically saying is its unachievable and a complete waste.

I was so looking forward to playing around with Improved Trip feat. Maybe better off sticking to Adrenaline knockdowns.