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Noritine
08-25-2013, 03:12 PM
so this will be using the lr +20 to do this so im not worried about slow leveling. I would like to put down as much dps as possible while still being self sufficient.
it will be human and 34 point build. i was thinking 16/2/2 with bard ranger fighter or bard ranger rogue.
oh, and +4 tomes all around.
thank you for the help

-Noritine

JasonJi72
08-26-2013, 11:22 AM
so this will be using the lr +20 to do this so im not worried about slow leveling. I would like to put down as much dps as possible while still being self sufficient.
it will be human and 34 point build. i was thinking 16/2/2 with bard ranger fighter or bard ranger rogue.
oh, and +4 tomes all around.
thank you for the help

-Noritine

I had some trouble remaking my Bardcher. Slaying arrows are out, especially for a human, but really for Bards in general, since you will want to go tier 5 in the Bard tree (whichever one you like, I chose Spellsinger). I did still take manyshot though, since the burst damage is really nice on a bard.

Deffinitely stay with Ranger for the Positive spellpower enhancements. Getting effective trap skills was always tricky on a bard (I have done it twice), especially now that you will want to max out heal which is a cross class skill on a Bard... Grrrr.

I went with 2 Fighter and still found myself wanting more feats. Sorry that I don't have any solid advice to give you. I just figured I would share my own experiences and wish you luck. I had to put my Bardcher down for now, because I could not stop adjusting my enhancements, and that was getting expensive quick.

SerPounce
08-26-2013, 02:05 PM
I don't see any need for t5 bard abilities unless your a spellsinger going for spell DCs. I think a barcher focused mainly on buffs and ranged dps/utility would be better off going t5 in AA on an elf or half helf. Spellsong vigor is nice for any bard, but I don't think it's worth loosing all the t5 AA goodies on its own.

From there you decide whether you want to be a STR based half elf or a DEX based elf. For the STR half elf you want to splash 2 ranger for bow str and rapid shot, but on the dex elf you don't need bow str and the ranger splash becomes a lot less attractive.

For the dex based elf it seems a shame to not have evasion due to your high reflex, so 2 rogue splash is a good idea. Probably 18B/2Rogue or 16B/2ftr/2rogue if you need the feats (you really don't though unless you want melee feats also). Ranger is still nice for access to the heal skill, but I don't think it's worth it.

For the str based version you want 2 ranger, with either the rest bard or 2 fighter or rogue (feats vs. evasion and trapping).

You could also do a deep splash as a human (or any non-elf), but I don't really see the point, you're getting more from the bard levels than you are from the 4/5 AP needed to open AA as an (half) elf.

unbongwah
08-26-2013, 03:17 PM
The feats you want on a Bardcher haven't changed:

Bow STR OR HE rgr dilly OR elven Grace (i.e., some way of adding STR or DEX to bow dmg)
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Manyshot
Imp Crit Ranged
Precise Shot + Imp Prec Shot
Combat Archery (maybe)


Rgr 2 gets you two of those feats (BS+RS), +75 Positive Spellpower, 2d6 SA from DWS, Haste Boost from Tempest, and basic imbues (particularly helpful if non-elf/HE), so it's the obvious choice, IMHO. Then it's down to rogue 2 (Evasion, trap skills, a bit more SA) or ftr 2 (two extra feats, T1 Kensei focus). Or maybe rgr 4 / bard 16: that gets you Ram's Might, Prec Shot, +d6 SA, a bit more imbues.

SerPounce
08-26-2013, 03:33 PM
The feats you want on a Bardcher haven't changed:
Bow STR OR HE rgr dilly OR elven Grace (i.e., some way of adding STR or DEX to bow dmg)


Ranger dilly isn't even close to being good enough for an archer build at this point. Maybe if you're talking about a 1-20 then TR build (even then it's pretty suspect), but in epic +8 max is completely inadequate.

junta64
08-26-2013, 04:42 PM
You could throw in a level of Cleric to get access to Divine Might. Two minutes of + your charisma modifier to strength for 18 spell points and seven action points.

Dodoroq
08-27-2013, 04:23 AM
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/413280-Bardcher-with-full-trapskills

Check this one - still a viable build, after just resetting enhancements and switching a feat or two. I have updated it to post-U19. Please disregard the enhancements, some playtesting showed that they are not ideal - I would gladly drop Song of Capering now (cast times are awful), or one tier of Improved Recovery or both, for Core Warchanter 1 ability (which is stellar for 1 AP), 2 more SP spent in the Deepwood tree on the other empathy (just for positive spellpower) and possibly second tier core there.

You absolutely do not need the heal skill pumped up - my healing actually is better than it was prior update even without it.

unbongwah
08-27-2013, 08:38 AM
Ranger dilly isn't even close to being good enough for an archer build at this point. Maybe if you're talking about a 1-20 then TR build (even then it's pretty suspect), but in epic +8 max is completely inadequate.
If you did a STR-dumped CHA-based pure bard, +8 (STR 26) seems about right: 8 base + 2 tome + 8 item + 2 Rage spell + 4 Skaldic Rage + 2 insightful STR (or ship buff) = 26

Why would you do a STR-dumped Bardcher? Presumably because you want to focus on your spell DCs. Is this a good idea? Dunno, but clearly someone wants to give it a go (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423093-Pure-20-Spellsinger-AA). :)

maddmatt70
08-27-2013, 09:27 AM
13 bard 6 ranger 1 cleric. That is my plan on rabiez although I might make him more of combo range/melee, but the concept is the same. The 1 clelric is for divine might and the 6 ranger give you bow strength, rapid shot and manyshot and access to tier 5 archer. You will still have a o.k. songs, solid enthrall dc. Take empower healing and with cocoon you can still heal a ton. The deepwood first tier gives alot of positive spell power so its pretty easy to jack that up. Character will have a mix of dex, strength, charisma, and constitution.

JasonJi72
08-27-2013, 11:00 AM
As a long time Virtuoso player, it is really hard for me to give up Song of Cappering, and now I get to play with Spellsong Vigor..., but I will consider it. I ended up going with more melee with Manyshot as a backup, but I still haven't got it quite how I want it yet.

I do love how you can get 3 random bards together with the same level split, and you will have 3 very different characters. Gotta love Da Bards...

Personally, I never liked Ranger Dillitentte; not enough damage output, and I always prefered Pally on a Bard.

One thing to consider is exactly how much actual Bardiness do you want to put into your Bard. My busiest characters are usually my Bards by a long shot. Crowd Control, Melee, Ranged, Healing and Buffing all at the same time is what makes the class one of my favorites to play.

For the most part, I fill a a dps/cc role, but there are times when it is beneficial to the party to heal as well. My Cure Criticals hit for about 500 with just empowered heal. I used to focus on dealing damage during raid boss fights, but I have noticed that those battles always go much smoother when I play my Bard in a support role. The party stays healthier and buffed, the healer's spellpoints last a lot longer (and that was before I had spellsong vigor). Situationally of course. :)

SerPounce
08-27-2013, 11:15 AM
If you did a STR-dumped CHA-based pure bard, +8 (STR 26) seems about right: 8 base + 2 tome + 8 item + 2 Rage spell + 4 Skaldic Rage + 2 insightful STR (or ship buff) = 26

Why would you do a STR-dumped Bardcher? Presumably because you want to focus on your spell DCs. Is this a good idea? Dunno, but clearly someone wants to give it a go (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423093-Pure-20-Spellsinger-AA). :)

That build is an elf using grace, and will have more than 26 DEX at cap. From the OP:

The new Elven tree means that splashing Ranger is no longer a de facto requirement for archers, and it's less attribute dependent as well. Feats and enhancements are extremely tight though.
The idea that you would dump STR and then spend 8 AP and your dilly feat to get +8 dmg makes no sense. That's just not good character building.

unbongwah
08-27-2013, 12:17 PM
As a long time Virtuoso player, it is really hard for me to give up Song of Cappering, and now I get to play with Spellsong Vigor..., but I will consider it.
You can still pick up both with fewer bard lvls than before, presuming you're willing to spend 30+ APs on Spellsinger tree. For me, the tough one to sacrifice is Heroics+Excellence, which req's bard 15.

Noritine
08-28-2013, 10:42 PM
thanks for all the help (:
I decided to go 14 bard 6 ranger. im still not 100% sure if.im.going.to epics or.if.I.will TR again when I hit 20.
but so far, dps isn't great but isnt the best either. but im using loot get bows at the moment so I will get something better when I have the time to actually sit down and play.

what do you all recommend bow wise?

Dodoroq
08-29-2013, 10:55 AM
I am usually using Silver Bow (was ML6, now it's ML8 and has Red Augment), then Bow of Sinew (ML14) as cheap alternatives. If you want to dedicate more effort into it, Then GS LitII bow is your best bet.

Also, situationally, you might want to use Elemental bow of Earth, +1 Paralyzing Longbow if you can lay your hands on one (even though now you can use paralyzing arrows from Arcane Archer tree, so there is little need to) or the upgraded bow from Lordsmarch Chain (forgot the name).