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View Full Version : Which settup pro's and cons?



goodspeed
08-24-2013, 01:26 PM
Ive been racking trying to think which would be the best for dmg with of course self reliability.

I was thinking a 12 bard 6 fighter 2 rog and going for the northwind in warchanter. But then I spend a bit on points to get there that aren't that beneficial.


Then I thought cut the bard to 10, Take 8 fighter, so I can get keen edge and then 2 rog. Which would hold the better value? The keen edge, and it's stuff, or the northwind and it's stuff. Crit multiplyer vs crit range?

Then I thought what about a 12 fighter 8 bard for the str boost at core fighter kensai 12. Course that would mean giving up evasion unless taking shadow ED.

12 fighter is nice but taking 6 bard unfortunatly doesn't net lv 3 spells like displace and haste (nice just to have on the fly) So to go with 12 fighter and evasion I would need to switch out the bard for a Barb. But not sure if that would net me extra of anything.

What are your peoples random thoughts on the splits?

mezzorco
08-25-2013, 06:38 AM
You said 12 bard, then 10, then 8...finally you were thinking of 6...
I think you should choose another class :P
Bard is really good at 15 or 16, you keep almost all benefits of being a bard while gaining much from multiclassing.
According to me, going under 12 isn't worth it, you can scroll buffs and heals and pick a better melee class, such as barb or ranger.

Rull
08-26-2013, 06:29 PM
8 bard 12 fighter is nice.

Before u14 it outdamaged about anything, the 8 bard on top of kensai II offered a +6 to damage as a kind of super-rage (which for TWF equals about +16 to strength, 8 barbarian levels wouldn't get you even close). And that's not even considering the added damage to your party members yet, nor counting the haste.

With a sweetspot still on 12 fighter, it is a strong combination still. With the ability to take 60% song duration your song are reasonable even if they only give +3 damage now. The personal DPS of the warchanter line doesn't compare as good to other splash class lines anymore, but to a 6 man group you are still one of the best additions (for raiding you'll also want a deeper bard, making you a bad dps).

If you want the damage of a kensai with displacement and selfhaste (without wasting an item slot which in itself should be worth at least 5 damage/hit) who shines in non-raids, roll this. Otherwise go with at least 15 bard for inspire excellence. 12 bard is a trap.

that said, i really really don't like toons without evasion (but in the half-a-bard category there isn't a good option with evasion anymore)

Dodoroq
08-27-2013, 04:34 AM
... 12 bard is a trap.

that said, i really really don't like toons without evasion (but in the half-a-bard category there isn't a good option with evasion anymore)

I would agree with you somewhat at 15 or 16 bard levels, but actually met some really impressive bard12 builds. In particular, I very much liked 12/6/2 Bard/Arti/Rogue using X-bows. I have seen one of these soloing EE content with Toven's Hammer, RadII X-bow, and CC procs in Shiradi, even at lvl 21. Enthrall/Fascinate, pick one, kill, pick another, kill, ...

Saying bard12 is a trap is, by my standards, heavily imprecise as I am sure there is more than one Bard12 build out there well worth trying. Before, Bard 12 missed level 5 spells (GH missed most), now you can have it cheap as mass indispellable song version. Bard 12 builds went up with the update in power.

goodspeed
08-27-2013, 10:58 AM
I ended up taking the bard to lv 10 (If I was going for cc/buffer then id take it past 14, but for melee and putting self first I found that 14 was the cutoff, and that was before the tree's, now id say 12.) took fighter to 8 to qualify for the keen edge and had the feats for it. Then 2 rog for the evasion and extra SA.

I managed to get nearly everything in the enhancements. I went up the horc tree taking all the 2 handed dmg, and the weakness dmg, and boosts and all that.

Then went up kensei taking the boosts and dc's, confirm crit and weapon specialization.

Then went up warchanter and got tier 3 recklessness, the added dmg to courage northwind and all that.

And then lastly I finished in spellsinger getting the 75% boost to wands and scrolls and a point into 20% longer songs. I really wished I could of had an extra 2 points for the third tier though. They last about 5 min. Displace is 2:10 as is haste. And I got fom at 12. reflex is at 28 but with some tweaking and redoing some gear im sure I can jack that up more.

dmg wise he's pretty good. I confirmed keen was working on an 18 with my great axe. about 100 to 110 base dmg then the added stuff from the weapon. His crits are usually around 600 and shoot up to 1200. I don't have any problems using stunning blow or trip, and once helpless goes off it's around 230 to 320 a blow.

Im thinking the 8 fighter nets more dmg then if I left him at 12 bard and took howl of the north. I do wish I could nab a lil bit more ap though.

voodoogroves
08-27-2013, 05:19 PM
I would agree with you somewhat at 15 or 16 bard levels, but actually met some really impressive bard12 builds. In particular, I very much liked 12/6/2 Bard/Arti/Rogue using X-bows. I have seen one of these soloing EE content with Toven's Hammer, RadII X-bow, and CC procs in Shiradi, even at lvl 21. Enthrall/Fascinate, pick one, kill, pick another, kill, ...

Saying bard12 is a trap is, by my standards, heavily imprecise as I am sure there is more than one Bard12 build out there well worth trying. Before, Bard 12 missed level 5 spells (GH missed most), now you can have it cheap as mass indispellable song version. Bard 12 builds went up with the update in power.

Do not confuse the heroic-build with overall came capabilities.

I'm sure you've seen some good Bard 12s. That doesn't make Bard 12 a good place, just you've seen people who have used gears, past lives, game knowledge and other things to excel. Your first example is a high ROF Shiradi. I bet you could do similar with just about any class - some EDs and some base-minimum heroic gear/etc. can work regardless of the class split. In fact, I'd wager that if instead of bard that was a Cleric 12, FVS 12, something you'd probably see similar results.

That doesn't mean it is on its own *good*.

So, a really experienced and geared player can make anything happen. Remember, one of the fun builds that was suggested for getting completionist was Arti 9 / whatever 11 and riding a Lit2 repeater to cap. It works, I've seen folks do it. That doesn't mean it is, on its own, a good build. It works for an experienced player with the gear - and that is hardly the same thing.