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cnynridr2
08-21-2013, 04:16 PM
Returning player and still trying to figure out the U19 enhancements and ED.

First is Quivering palm working on Quarterstaves or Short swords? Secondly if it is are there any builds post u19 with this in mind? I sux at getting all the little nuances out of a build even with the planner. If QP is or isn't, is there a good short sword or quarterstaff build that is viable for endgame?

Thanks in advance!!

Lighter

FuzzyDuck81
08-22-2013, 10:28 AM
Yes it works with weapons now, and in addition the DC is boosted by anything that boosts sunder DCs too.

cnynridr2
08-22-2013, 01:06 PM
Thanks fuzzyduck81. Good to know.

Does anyone have any builds made that they think will be viable for endgame?

Wasn't sure if I should go twf or thf for short swords or quarterstaffs respectively plus what feats and enhancements will work. Bludgeon or piercing improved twf or thf etc.

Thanks.

ArcaneArcher52689
08-22-2013, 01:28 PM
depends on what you mean by viable at end game. I decided to LR one of my low level alts into this:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423271-A-new-big-stick-(halfling-q-staff-build)

high dex build with q-staff that has quivering palm, high double strike, full henshin tree, and decent self healing from dragonmarks. Gotta say, so far, i'm impressed. @lvl 8, monk 5/rogue 3 with Dragon mark, PA, and cleave and having a blast. Toon is a low priority at the moment though, so, won't really see it in higher levels until later.

My guess is that it should be able to solo EN/EH fairly easily with high AC/dodge/incorp, and self healing

HastyPudding
08-22-2013, 01:41 PM
Thanks fuzzyduck81. Good to know.

Does anyone have any builds made that they think will be viable for endgame?

Wasn't sure if I should go twf or thf for short swords or quarterstaffs respectively plus what feats and enhancements will work. Bludgeon or piercing improved twf or thf etc.

Thanks.

The biggest blow to following the way Ninja or Henshin is setup is the loss of stunning fist. Shintao seems to be the only tree dedicated to unarmed builds; but it's more of a defensive/supportive tree. Ninja Spy has way too many abilities that focus on slashing/piercing weapons to go unarmed and Henshin Mystic has an entire line of quarterstaff boosts and attacks.

The THF line has long since been defunct since the introduction of the epic feat, overwhelming critical. Power attack, cleave, great cleave, and overwhelming critical are the staple of two-handed and sword-and-board builds. You'll gain more damage out of cleave and great cleave than you will out of increased glancing blows. So for Henshin builds, you'll go for strength-based and head for overwhelming critical at level 21. Henshin seems more geared towards a crit machine with quarterstaves than anything else. They need to buff up Henshin's unique ki abilities if it's to be a vital part of the tree; the DC's need to be drastically increased and changed to something other than reflex saves since they simply won't have the DC's to make them viable in end-game.

I don't know much about Ninja Spies, but the TWF build is always viable for a monk, whether you're unarmed or using kamas and short swords. I've seen quite a few monks going dex-based and using short swords to take advantage of the Ninja's special abilities and poisons.

So, for Henshin:
Strength-based with strong emphasis in wisdom, cleave, great cleave, overwhelming critical, with spare feats going into useful things like dodge increases. Or you can go dexterity-based and splash 3 levels of rogue to get abilities from the Thief Acrobat tree.

Ninja Spy:
Either strength or dexterity based, it's up to you, then use the TWF line and go for either unarmed or short swords, respectively. Cleave/great cleave/overwhelming critical is up to you.

cnynridr2
08-22-2013, 02:15 PM
Awesome. Thanks for good info.

I guess it just depends on which I will like to play.

Any other thoughts anyone? Maybe multiclassing like the rogue mentioned above or?

Xorlandu
08-22-2013, 04:30 PM
Ninja Spy has way too many abilities that focus on slashing/piercing weapons to go unarmed

Using ivy wraps qualifies for said abilities. You can also get 30 points in the tree only spending 2 ap on stuff that doesn't work with other handwraps (the 2 ap you have to spend in the core abilities to reach shadow veil).

Core: 3AP on first 3 core abilities for shadow viel.

Tier 1: 3/3 acrobatics, sneak attack training, 1/3 stealthy (filler can put in other places like agility if you go 3/3 subtlety as mentioned below).

Tier 2: Elemental strikes (I got fists of iron can get one of the others if desired), sneak attack training, 3/3 in either subtlety or agility. I solo a lot so I went with agility.

Tier 3: Sneak attack training, +1 wisdom (if concerned about quivering palm you want all the wisdom you can get).

Tier 4: 3/3 No mercy, sneak attack training, +1 wisdom.

That gives you 30 points spent in the tree to get shadow double with only the first 2 core abilities requiring slashing/piercing weapons. Doesn't have touch of death because right now it isn't giving offhand/double strike procs which really lowers its usefulness.

Just because some of the abilities require slashing or piercing weapons doesn't mean the tree is not worth going while using handwraps.

zm00094
08-22-2013, 07:33 PM
The epic feat "vorpal strike" gives all handwraps slashing. Does this not work with the poison feat?

maddmatt70
08-26-2013, 11:03 AM
The biggest blow to following the way Ninja or Henshin is setup is the loss of stunning fist. Shintao seems to be the only tree dedicated to unarmed builds; but it's more of a defensive/supportive tree. Ninja Spy has way too many abilities that focus on slashing/piercing weapons to go unarmed and Henshin Mystic has an entire line of quarterstaff boosts and attacks.

The THF line has long since been defunct since the introduction of the epic feat, overwhelming critical. Power attack, cleave, great cleave, and overwhelming critical are the staple of two-handed and sword-and-board builds. You'll gain more damage out of cleave and great cleave than you will out of increased glancing blows. So for Henshin builds, you'll go for strength-based and head for overwhelming critical at level 21. Henshin seems more geared towards a crit machine with quarterstaves than anything else. They need to buff up Henshin's unique ki abilities if it's to be a vital part of the tree; the DC's need to be drastically increased and changed to something other than reflex saves since they simply won't have the DC's to make them viable in end-game.

I don't know much about Ninja Spies, but the TWF build is always viable for a monk, whether you're unarmed or using kamas and short swords. I've seen quite a few monks going dex-based and using short swords to take advantage of the Ninja's special abilities and poisons.

So, for Henshin:
Strength-based with strong emphasis in wisdom, cleave, great cleave, overwhelming critical, with spare feats going into useful things like dodge increases. Or you can go dexterity-based and splash 3 levels of rogue to get abilities from the Thief Acrobat tree.

Ninja Spy:
Either strength or dexterity based, it's up to you, then use the TWF line and go for either unarmed or short swords, respectively. Cleave/great cleave/overwhelming critical is up to you.

Couldn't you get no mercy for both ninja spy and thief acrobat for 60% damage and with sense weakness = 90% - be a q-staff user with a high stun blow dc and go dreadnaught. Ninja Spy has sneak attack to damage, dodge, and some other useful things just enough pts to get that. Was thinking 10 rogue 6 monk 4 paladin with 4 pally for divine might, divine grace, and spells for cocoon twist.

Therigar
08-26-2013, 11:35 AM
The epic feat "vorpal strike" gives all handwraps slashing. Does this not work with the poison feat?

No. The ability does not count for the poison feat. Other threads have addressed this and it appears that this may be WAI -- although I don't fathom why.

ATM the only way to get the poison enhancement to work with handwraps is for the wraps themselves to have piercing or slashing as part of their description. Vorpal Strike, Brawling Gloves, etc. all fail to proc poison attacks.

cnynridr2
08-27-2013, 08:24 PM
So at the moment I am really having fun with monk and quarterstaffs. I am doing this on a first lifer champion but will probably do on a TR with barb and monk past lives to some version of this build later.

I am at work so off the top of my head here is what I did so far. Bear with me making builds is not my forte'. I plan to take 2 more rogue, and 5 or 6 monk with maybe 2-3 druid.

3 rogue acrobat/7 monk -halfling
12+1 tome
18(maybe all level ups. not sure if some should go to wis)
16
10(might be 8)
16
8
----32 points I think.

Anything quarterstaff or dc's for enhancements. Love the dex modifier for attack and damage not strength.

Dodge
Cleave
Greater cleave
ten stars
improved bludegon
Toughness


Any ideas how to make this better. Not sure if this will be viable for EE but definitely fun to play so far.

FuzzyDuck81
08-28-2013, 03:01 AM
Couldn't you get no mercy for both ninja spy and thief acrobat for 60% damage and with sense weakness = 90% - be a q-staff user with a high stun blow dc and go dreadnaught. Ninja Spy has sneak attack to damage, dodge, and some other useful things just enough pts to get that. Was thinking 10 rogue 6 monk 4 paladin with 4 pally for divine might, divine grace, and spells for cocoon twist.

Be a half orc & get no mercy type stuff from racial too plus extra 2hf damage! :)