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Havok.cry
08-21-2013, 12:06 PM
Hello everyone. I have never done a bard before and was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me with the build for a PDK 6/ Bard 14 (or 12 and something else 2). Would like to have sword and board style, defender stance, and awesome songs/buffs, especially fascinate. I am not sure where to begin with this though.

cru121
08-21-2013, 12:17 PM
basic decision would be: do you want to use medium armors? you need big investment into warchanter tree. do you stick with light armor? consider evasion. monk is out due to alignment, so rogue.

also, bard spells are afaik subject to arcane spell failure from shields. what's your plan for that?

Havok.cry
08-21-2013, 01:16 PM
basic decision would be: do you want to use medium armors? you need big investment into warchanter tree. do you stick with light armor? consider evasion. monk is out due to alignment, so rogue.

also, bard spells are afaik subject to arcane spell failure from shields. what's your plan for that?
Mithral+twilight sheilds. I would take recommendations for warchanter or no. I like evasion, but I'm not sure I will being in dex enouh for it to matter.

Neoxxz
08-21-2013, 01:20 PM
...bard spells are afaik subject to arcane spell failure from shields. what's your plan for that?

EE Skyvault. 0% Arcane Spell Failure and 3 slots (Purple, Red, Blue)

Havok.cry
08-21-2013, 01:22 PM
EE Skyvault. 0% Arcane Spell Failure and 3 slots (Purple, Red, Blue)

Or that... that is definitely an option too.

Neoxxz
08-21-2013, 02:07 PM
Hello everyone. I have never done a bard before and was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me with the build for a PDK 6/ Bard 14 (or 12 and something else 2). Would like to have sword and board style, defender stance, and awesome songs/buffs, especially fascinate. I am not sure where to begin with this though.

I'd love to theorycraft a PDK/bard/X multiclass build but it seems today's update broke the DDO Mac Beta. If they get around to fixing it, I'll be back on here with my build suggestion. :)

honkuimushi
08-21-2013, 07:28 PM
Mithral+twilight sheilds.

Mithril shields don't drop anymore and you can't craft Twilight on them either. Even if you have some old Mithril shields, armor and shields get inherent improvements at Absolute ML? of 4, 10, 16 and 22. You'll have to find some named shields with low or no ASF.

Havok.cry
08-22-2013, 08:31 AM
Mithril shields don't drop anymore and you can't craft Twilight on them either. Even if you have some old Mithril shields, armor and shields get inherent improvements at Absolute ML? of 4, 10, 16 and 22. You'll have to find some named shields with low or no ASF.

Ah okay, Good to know.

Pantanaccio
08-22-2013, 08:45 AM
Hello everyone. I have never done a bard before and was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me with the build for a PDK 6/ Bard 14 (or 12 and something else 2). Would like to have sword and board style, defender stance, and awesome songs/buffs, especially fascinate. I am not sure where to begin with this though.

Skywault + Epic Chimera Fang
PDK 6 / Bard 11 / Fvs 3

PDK 6 (Stalwart Defender Core 2, Defensive Stance)
Bard 11 (lvl 4 spell: Blur haste, Range, Displacement)
Fvs 3 (Divine Might [Add Mod carisma to Str], Shield of Condamtion)

But remember you lack HP for tank...

mezzorco
08-22-2013, 08:50 AM
Skywault + Epic Chimera Fang
PDK 6 / Bard 11 / Fvs 3

PDK 6 (Stalwart Defender Core 2, Defensive Stance)
Bard 11 (lvl 4 spell: Blur haste, Range, Displacement)
Fvs 3 (Divine Might [Add Mod carisma to Str], Shield of Condamtion)

But remember you lack HP for tank...
Why bother taking Divine Might on a built that uses CHA for hit and damage?
It seems a huge investment and you will only benefit from increased tactical DC.

Havok.cry
08-22-2013, 11:38 AM
Skywault + Epic Chimera Fang
PDK 6 / Bard 11 / Fvs 3

PDK 6 (Stalwart Defender Core 2, Defensive Stance)
Bard 11 (lvl 4 spell: Blur haste, Range, Displacement)
Fvs 3 (Divine Might [Add Mod carisma to Str], Shield of Condamtion)

But remember you lack HP for tank...
Might cleric 3 be better than FvS 3 in this case?

unbongwah
08-22-2013, 01:35 PM
Does Skaldic Rage cancel out SD stance the way barb Rage does?

Some amusing theory-crafting ahead: what about bard 12 / ftr 6 / rgr 2?

Rgr splash is for extra feats (namely Bow STR + Rapid Shot), +75 Devotion from DWS (is this still in?), some AA stuff (Conjure + imbue)
Ftr 6 is for 4 feats + SD stance

Stats:
STR: base 15 + 2 tome (for ITHF/GTHF)
DEX: base 15 + 2 tome (for Manyshot)
CON: base 14 + 2 tome
WIS: base 8
INT: base 8
CHA: base 16 + 7 lvl-ups + 2 tome

Feats: 7 heroic + 1 human + 4 ftr + 3 epic = 15 total (+2 ED feats)
Shield Mastery & ISM, Power Atk, THF x3, IC:Slash, Cleave & GC, PBS, Manyshot - leaves 5 to play with (e.g., Imp Shield Bash, Toughness, Dodge, WF+WS:Slash, or some metas)

Pantanaccio
08-22-2013, 02:09 PM
Why bother taking Divine Might on a built that uses CHA for hit and damage?
It seems a huge investment and you will only benefit from increased tactical DC.

Its better use STR do hit and damage, cause u can boost it with skaldric rage.
Divine might add the mod cha to STR, it is like a boost with 20 sec cd and duration 2min. (permanent)
With 3 clr/fvs u gain also Sanctuary and Toughness

@unbongwah No skaldric is a Song, non a stance like the barbarian rage.

Neoxxz
08-22-2013, 07:11 PM
Hello everyone. I have never done a bard before and was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me with the build for a PDK 6/ Bard 14 (or 12 and something else 2). Would like to have sword and board style, defender stance, and awesome songs/buffs, especially fascinate. I am not sure where to begin with this though.

While PDKs currently have the novelty factor and a couple of interesting quirks, their racial tree is essentially underwhelming.

They offer the option of CHA to hit/damage which, at first glance, would seem to be a very attractive option for a Bard. However, given the plethora of ways to boost STR (Rage, Primal Scream, Tensers, Skaldic Rage, Ram's Might, Profane, Divine Might etc) and the dearth of similar ways to boost CHA, even on a CHA build, your STR will potentially always be higher (especially if you take Divine Might).

They offer the Shield Deflection feat for 2 AP which, along with the defensive auras, suggests the possibility of a defense/buff orientated S&B build.

The signature ability is 'For Cormyr', which, once per rest, adds your CHA modifier to all nearby party members' damage for TWO MINUTES. This could obviously be a very potent addition to any raid or boss fight. This requires a 19 point investment in the PDK tree, and as you're in the top tier, you may as well spend another 2 ap to pick up the 3rd tier of healing amp. So that's 21 points already.

I don't have a lot of experience with tanks but it would seem that Bards - in spite of receiving Intimidate as a class skill - with their modest HPs, modest saves and light armour limitation wouldn't make the best tanks. True, you can get Medium Armour from the Warchanter tree but that requires a massive 32 point investment and, if that's the class tier you've opted for maximum ranks in, you should really spend 36 points to acquire HoTN and Weapon Training too.

If PDK and Bard comprise the first two parts of the split and we've settled on building a S&B tank an FVS splash would seem the logical conclusion for Divine Might, Inquisition and Crown of Condemnation. So a 6/11/3 split, as a previous poster has already suggested.

However, if your heart is set on building a PDK tank I would strongly consider Paladin instead of Bard. Heavy Armour, high HPs, massive saves, stacking defensive auras (PDK Aura and Aura of Good), multiplicatively stacking Heal Amp, Divine Righteousness and potent synergy with the Unyielding Sentinel ED. Lots of possible splits but one that looks particularly appealing is FVS 12/Paladin 6/Fighter 2 (Heal spell + Archon/Sacred Defence/2 bonus feats).

If I was going to build a PDK bard I'd focus on the PDK ability that is most appealing to me, Rallying Cry which gives a 20% movespeed boost 20 seconds out of every 30. I'd go STR based, use my favourite multiclass bard split (16 bard/2 fighter/2 ranger), go THF and exploit the synergies between Overwhelming Crit and Howl of the North, Warchanter sprint boost and Rallying Cry, and Unbridled Fury and Manyshot respectively. Would make for a very fun, high dps, zergy playstyle. :)

Havok.cry
08-23-2013, 05:58 PM
@Neoxxz: I'll look into both of those. What stat allocation would you recommend for each?

unbongwah
08-23-2013, 06:49 PM
I took a stab at a PDK pally tank here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422677-Rebuilding-a-few-Duos-for-post-E-Pass?p=5077197&viewfull=1#post5077197).

Neoxxz
08-23-2013, 07:14 PM
@Neoxxz: I'll look into both of those. What stat allocation would you recommend for each?

FVS 12/Paladin 6/Fighter 2

STR 16
DEX 8
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 16 (levelups here)

Bard 16/Ranger 2/Fighter 2

STR 16 (levelups here)
DEX 15 (need +2 tome)
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 10

Havok.cry
08-23-2013, 08:53 PM
You know I've been looking at divine might because of this thread, and paladins in general, and I just realized:

20 charisma+divine might+rally=as much damage on a two hander as old divine might gave. And higher charisma will increase it further. If you add rally, which paladins didn't have before, then it is alot closer to what DM was before and a lot less of a nerf... maybe even so far as not a nerf, depending on how high you get your charisma, especially since it adds to your to hit and tacticals as well. Especially on a two hander, as now that it adds to strength rather than damage, the damage it adds is multiplied by 1.5. What do you guys think?

Neoxxz
08-24-2013, 01:42 PM
However, if your heart is set on building a PDK tank I would strongly consider Paladin instead of Bard. Heavy Armour, high HPs, massive saves, stacking defensive auras (PDK Aura and Aura of Good), multiplicatively stacking Heal Amp, Divine Righteousness and potent synergy with the Unyielding Sentinel ED. Lots of possible splits but one that looks particularly appealing is FVS 12/Paladin 6/Fighter 2 (Heal spell + Archon/Sacred Defence/2 bonus feats).


Intrigued by the possibilities, I fleshed this build out:

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*N.B. post moved to Multiclass forum*