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View Full Version : Scaldic Rage vs. Barbarian Rage.



era42
08-21-2013, 04:58 AM
Seems scaldic rage isn't quite considered as rage. Casting Scaldic Rage doesn't activate any of the barbarian rage enhancements.

However, just training Scaldic Rage adds +4str to regular barbarian rage. No stacking thing, just train scaldic rage and after that, regular rage has an extra +4str.

Is scaldic rage supposed to be a rage effect that gets boosted by the barbarian enchants, or is it just a +4str bonus for bards?

mna
08-21-2013, 09:09 AM
Seems scaldic rage isn't quite considered as rage. Casting Scaldic Rage doesn't activate any of the barbarian rage enhancements.

However, just training Scaldic Rage adds +4str to regular barbarian rage. No stacking thing, just train scaldic rage and after that, regular rage has an extra +4str.

Is scaldic rage supposed to be a rage effect that gets boosted by the barbarian enchants, or is it just a +4str bonus for bards?


Also, Skaldic Rage apparently does stack with the Rage spell, and doesn't get dismissed with the Dismiss Rage feat. Sort of weird interactions...



Oh well, High Spirits tier 3 means not getting fatigued afterwards and that at least looks like it works as written.

mezzorco
08-21-2013, 10:16 AM
Is there a good way to multiclass warchanter and barbarian?
It looks to me that other splashes are more valuable from a bard perspective: 2 rogue gives evasion and skills, 2 or 6 ranger gives melee and ranged feats, 2 or 4 fighter gives 2-3 extra feats...

goodspeed
08-21-2013, 08:22 PM
Is there a good way to multiclass warchanter and barbarian?
It looks to me that other splashes are more valuable from a bard perspective: 2 rogue gives evasion and skills, 2 or 6 ranger gives melee and ranged feats, 2 or 4 fighter gives 2-3 extra feats...

I looked and went over the barbs stuff, and honestly I don't think so. I even thought about just cutting the bard out altogether and replacing him with 6 barb. But as I lookedit just didn't seem worth it. Wasting ap everywhere, no way in hell id rage and lose my ability to use heal scrolls or cast stuff.

The most bang for buck ive seen comes from the kensei. Stacking haste boosts every which way (ive got 14) combat dc's for helpless dmg (awesome with a horc tree. They got a 20% more dmg to helpless in theirs as well as a bunch of added dmg for weapons, and PA.



I was actually thinking of taking and making my bard lv 6 and then maying the fighter 12 but their didn't seem like alot of reason to. The only thing I could think of was the 8 str for a minute, but I think that goes off of the haste count, and no way would 8 str be replacing hell on wheels attack speed.

Plus you also kill the time of self buffs with extend, so I figured id leave him at 12 bard for the semi legthly displaces and songs. Or I might take the bard to 10 or 11 and take 3 or 4 lvs of rog. 3 has some good stuff, but I like the sound of that doublestrike stacking killer thing the tier 4 rog gets in assassin.

mna
08-22-2013, 07:53 PM
Well, I did some testing.

Seems that as of today, the different rages DO stack. (IIRC I read somewhere that they shouldn't, so expect that to change in a future update / patch.)

You can't turn them on in any order though - something like, 1st Skaldic Rage, 2nd spell Rage and Boast, 3rd other "short" buffs like Haste and Divine Power clicky, and only last barbarian Rage because once that on it's only special attacks and maybe boosts... (Oh and because the barbarian rage length is dependent on effective con mod, it apparently does benefit from the other rages...)

That's a net +10 str, a whole bunch of other bonuses, and -6 AC. At least on my level 14 bard12/barbarian1/ftr1 toon. Fairly respectable "burst" DPS at that point I'd think, but... it's for a couple of minutes OR until you have to stop to self-heal or whatever. At which point you theoretically dismiss rage and end up only double-raged at +6 str, and can turn the barbrage back on if you have more of that. (Boast tier 3 is +1 barbrage.)

And with tier 3 High Spirits, no fatigue.

Maybe I won't drop the barbarian level quite yet after all...

Still have to figure out Howl of the North. (Didn't take anything of the "cold" line yet.)

ThomasHunter
08-23-2013, 02:02 PM
I put a quick question in the general threads, but no answer. I saw "the Cold Line" mentioned here, so thought I would inquire here as well:)

I am curious if anyone thinks that is worth it since it only seems to go off on spellcaster cold damage taken. Overall, that seems like a small pigeon hole to sink a fair amount of actions points into.

Thoughts?

mezzorco
08-24-2013, 04:28 AM
I put a quick question in the general threads, but no answer. I saw "the Cold Line" mentioned here, so thought I would inquire here as well:)

I am curious if anyone thinks that is worth it since it only seems to go off on spellcaster cold damage taken. Overall, that seems like a small pigeon hole to sink a fair amount of actions points into.

Thoughts?
Here is what I understood (english not my main language):
- Gathering Cold: toggle, while it's active you've a chance to gain Armor of Frost on frost damage taken
- Iced Edge: it activates if you score a critical while Gathering Cold and under Skaldic Rage. Armor of Frost is not related to its mechanic
- The Frozen Fury has no requirements
- Northwind: like Iced Edge, but on vorpal
- Howl of the North: it only requires you to be under Skaldic Rage

So yes, according to me it's a very valuable line :)

Some additional thoughts:
- The Frozen Fury seems to have very bad DC, I hope it's affected by tactical DC increase otherwise for a STR build it's not worth the cost (maybe it's not worth anyway)
- Northwind provides a very negligible increase in damage output, I would take only first rank to qualify for HotN
- Since for Iced Edge and Northwind you only need to have Gathering Cold active, and there are no relations with Armor of Frost, I would take only first rank, qualifying for everything I need

Hope it helps :)

Neoxxz
08-24-2013, 05:45 AM
You can't turn them on in any order though - something like, 1st Skaldic Rage, 2nd spell Rage and Boast, 3rd other "short" buffs like Haste and Divine Power clicky, and only last barbarian Rage because once that on it's only special attacks and maybe boosts...

Don't forget that the Boast buff disappears after you take 10-30 points damage (i.e. the slightest tickle). Therefore, it only seems useful for increasing burst ranged dps (i.e. Manyshot) or fighting helpless targets, though in the latter case, with Sense Weakness and the base +50% damage you probably wouldn't want to waste a song for a slightly higher clear speed.

mna
08-24-2013, 04:27 PM
Don't forget that the Boast buff disappears after you take 10-30 points damage (i.e. the slightest tickle). Therefore, it only seems useful for increasing burst ranged dps (i.e. Manyshot) or fighting helpless targets,

Oh, it's quite a bit more useful than that - it only has to last until I have aggro and the two rogues can go and backstab/assassinate everyone, anyway. (Why yes, two of my sons do play full or part rogues on that server.)

Besides, with a Life Shield whatevercraft breastplate of Invulnerability, Ironskin Chant, various other sources of temp hp (Words of Encouragement, Inspire Greatness, Greater/Song-of Heroism, etc...), and blur and displacement... I've had it sometimes last all fight anyway. Even without using my Bodyfeeder falchion (Imp Crit slash, check. Still to swap in Cleave instead of Weapon Focus, though.)

Seems that having ANY temp hp will suffice to keep going as long as the timer lasts...


("Everyone can play tank for a short while", eh?)

mna
08-24-2013, 04:44 PM
Here is what I understood (english not my main language):
- Gathering Cold: toggle, while it's active you've a chance to gain Armor of Frost on frost damage taken
- Iced Edge: it activates if you score a critical while Gathering Cold and under Skaldic Rage. Armor of Frost is not related to its mechanic
- The Frozen Fury has no requirements
- Northwind: like Iced Edge, but on vorpal
- Howl of the North: it only requires you to be under Skaldic Rage

So yes, according to me it's a very valuable line :)

Some additional thoughts:
- The Frozen Fury seems to have very bad DC, I hope it's affected by tactical DC increase otherwise for a STR build it's not worth the cost (maybe it's not worth anyway)
- Northwind provides a very negligible increase in damage output, I would take only first rank to qualify for HotN
- Since for Iced Edge and Northwind you only need to have Gathering Cold active, and there are no relations with Armor of Frost, I would take only first rank, qualifying for everything I need

Hope it helps :)

The way I see it, Frozen Fury is probably more useful to the other kind of bard, that is, to help the cha-based caster builds.

And yes, HotN and prerequisites is where I'll be spending the next few AP, just don't have it YET.

Neoxxz
08-24-2013, 05:20 PM
Oh, it's quite a bit more useful than that - it only has to last until I have aggro and the two rogues can go and backstab/assassinate everyone, anyway. (Why yes, two of my sons do play full or part rogues on that server.)

Besides, with a Life Shield whatevercraft breastplate of Invulnerability, Ironskin Chant, various other sources of temp hp (Words of Encouragement, Inspire Greatness, Greater/Song-of Heroism, etc...), and blur and displacement... I've had it sometimes last all fight anyway. Even without using my Bodyfeeder falchion (Imp Crit slash, check. Still to swap in Cleave instead of Weapon Focus, though.)

Seems that having ANY temp hp will suffice to keep going as long as the timer lasts...


("Everyone can play tank for a short while", eh?)

I generally assume EE in my analyses. :)

ThomasHunter
08-24-2013, 06:33 PM
Yes, thanks for the clarification! That makes a lot of sense :D

mna
08-25-2013, 02:20 AM
I generally assume EE in my analyses. :)

I don't see why Boast couldn't work in EE too... assuming you're willing to take that extra threat, which you may not...

But if it works like I though it would, having a positive number of temp hp should be enough to keep it going, and I do believe you can get rather more of those at higher levels still, so... given that I managed to have more than a hundred temp hp for a while yesterday at level 14...

bigdmag
08-25-2013, 11:26 AM
Is there a good way to multiclass warchanter and barbarian?
It looks to me that other splashes are more valuable from a bard perspective: 2 rogue gives evasion and skills, 2 or 6 ranger gives melee and ranged feats, 2 or 4 fighter gives 2-3 extra feats...


I have been running a 15/5 Bard/Barb for 3 years now. He is only a 1st lifer because I just never had the time to TR him. I can tell you he is my favorite toon. At level 25 he has over a 1000 HP's and nice saves. Lots of good buffs with displacement, GH, rage and so on. He can heal himself, put everything to sleep and dish out some damage. He stuns, trips and with a simple ED change can even tank. Sustainable strength in the upper 50's with bursts into the low 60's and he makes the entire party better with songs. I never really planned him out, he just kind of came together but he is a beast and very hardy. If he had some past lives he would be even better, he is just so fun to play that I never wanted to take the time to TR him. I would love to have fighter, barb, monk and paly past lives then he would really be interesting. I run him in Fury of the Wild ED and have twisted in the +6 to tactical DC's, brace for impact and reign. I know some will give me a hard time about the split but Im telling you he mashes stuff and survives. With the new enhancements he got even better than he was :)

mna
08-25-2013, 05:16 PM
I have been running a 15/5 Bard/Barb for 3 years now. He is only a 1st lifer because I just never had the time to TR him. I can tell you he is my favorite toon. At level 25 he has over a 1000 HP's and nice saves. Lots of good buffs with displacement, GH, rage and so on. He can heal himself, put everything to sleep and dish out some damage. He stuns, trips and with a simple ED change can even tank. Sustainable strength in the upper 50's with bursts into the low 60's and he makes the entire party better with songs.

...Str sustainable in the upper 50s with bursts into low 60s? Do you count some form of rage in the sustainable? Because I get exactly +10 STR when triple-raged, and could get that up to +13 with 6 points in Power Rage...

(+2 Rage spell, +4 Skaldic Rage, +4 Barbarian Rage, the latter up to +7 with three tiers of Power Rage from Frenzied Berserker.)



Oh, yes, and Boast does seem to last as long as you have ANY temp hp left, no matter where they came from. Sort of handy to have a built-in turn-off for the extra hate generation...?

bigdmag
08-25-2013, 09:16 PM
...Str sustainable in the upper 50s with bursts into low 60s? Do you count some form of rage in the sustainable? Because I get exactly +10 STR when triple-raged, and could get that up to +13 with 6 points in Power Rage...

(+2 Rage spell, +4 Skaldic Rage, +4 Barbarian Rage, the latter up to +7 with three tiers of Power Rage from Frenzied Berserker.)



Oh, yes, and Boast does seem to last as long as you have ANY temp hp left, no matter where they came from. Sort of handy to have a built-in turn-off for the extra hate generation...?


Yes, I am counting rages since they last about 4 or 5 minutes for me. Havent logged in in a while (school is starting soon and I have been busy) but I believe my standing strength is 39 (just gear). In quests I am almost always raged. That with the bard song that gives +2 lasts 7 minutes and ship strength shrine, puts me at around 56 ( I think) for most of the time in a quest. I also have primal scream which runs a lot too. So with primal scream Im at 61 for a good bit to. Add tensers in for big fights and Im swinging axes brothers!!!

mezzorco
08-26-2013, 04:59 AM
(+2 Rage spell, +4 Skaldic Rage, +4 Barbarian Rage, the latter up to +7 with three tiers of Power Rage from Frenzied Berserker.)

Somewhere I read barb rage doesn't stack with skaldic rage. Here you say the contrary. How does it exactly work?

mna
08-26-2013, 07:25 AM
Somewhere I read barb rage doesn't stack with skaldic rage. Here you say the contrary. How does it exactly work?

Well, I did mention that I think I read somewhere... release notes maybe... that they weren't INTENDED to stack. Anyway, in-game they still did as of yesterday. (Probably means that this will change in a future update or patch. I'll try to save my LR+20 until then...)


However, you can't turn on Skaldic Rage or cast the Rage spell (or any other spell, or use clickies) once you're in Barbarian Rage, so you have to do those others before starting the barbrage. And if you keep your stats window open you'll see your str go up when you do those three.

Gets me from 30 unbuffed to first 34, then 36, and then 40. At level 14 (12 bard / 1 ftr / 1 barbarian, no Power Rage enhs).