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Dawnsfire
08-19-2013, 10:25 PM
I just rolled one of these up to try it out and a lot of it makes no sense. I went to Elminster and he auto-gave me my first level of cleric. That set my beginning stats, skills and my first feat (I am not a fan of mental toughness). I can not LR or TR to change any of that.

Why are there enhancements to make dex my go to stat for certain melee weapons? My dex was left at 8.
Why bother giving me religious feats having to do with weapons? My dex and str were set at 8.
Why was I stuck with mental Toughness as my first level feat? Can't we settle on a feat more universally loved for the mandatory level? Something like Empower Healing, Maximize or Quicken?


Did I miss some way to set my stats myself? If not this Iconic seems stuck with offensive casting. Why not actually set the Morninglord tree up to totally reflect that?

PS: I just opened my granted equipment and one of the things I got was a heavy mace. It is a melee mace. Nothing on it at all that helps with spell casting (thought the off hand orb looks nice). It is meant to beat stuff up. Not very helpful without the stats to actually connect with something. . .

Varus
08-19-2013, 10:33 PM
You did it wrong. I'm guessing you didn't hit customize. Regardless, Morninglord is doomed to disappoint. The only cool racial enhancements require way to many AP to get. Unless you like INT or bows.

Dawnsfire
08-20-2013, 06:13 AM
You did it wrong. I'm guessing you didn't hit customize. Regardless, Morninglord is doomed to disappoint. The only cool racial enhancements require way to many AP to get. Unless you like INT or bows.

Well I guess I will have to try again. I doubt it will disappoint. I have a few guildies who used Otto's boxes and I wanted a quick cleric to run with them. Iconics are very convenient for that.

burningwind
08-20-2013, 06:44 AM
this iconic suck.. none of the racial ability are really useful to this build..

racial int- why do cleric need int? and no fxxxing dex...

bonus to bow distance- but you don't get to use dex to damage like other elf..

dex to determined blunt type of weapon- no racial dex.. nothing further enhance this ability

fey line- all elf has it..

sun burst spell like ability- low damage, high cost, minimum 30 second cool down.. even with maximum+empower still not worth it..due to extreme cool down and this spell only good against undead..

morning lord buff- hmmm would you waste many ap just to cast bless+death ward+spell resistance buff several times per rest?

p.s. we complain many times during beta.. but turbine do not care at all.. to them this is some sort of sick joke or something..

unbongwah
08-20-2013, 10:58 AM
If you play it as a straight WIS-based caster cleric, ML is no worse than a regular elf cleric, maybe slightly better since extra skill pts is probably more useful than +1 AC & Reflex. Just ignore the racial tree entirely, same as elf clerics have always done. :p Max WIS, CON 14, at least INT 12 (for Concentration, Heal & Spellcraft - higher INT means you can add, say, UMD or Balance), remaining pts (if any) into STR or CHA; mix Divine Disciple & Radiant Servant as you see fit depending on whether you want to be heal- or offensive-focused.

But if you're trying to come up with a ML build which actually exploits ML-specific abilities...well, I confess that one's got me stumped so far too. :o

Scrag
08-20-2013, 02:30 PM
There are only a few things worth taking:

+2 to turn (a total of +6 to turn and hd for 3? ap)
2 insta-heals
100 sp and +3 to ALL spell DCs
+30 light sp


Problem is, to get this, costs 19 points total. And you have to take it all in order to get the +30 light spell power.... :|

At 15, it makes it VERY hard to build a good char. I finally got a 2wiz/13cle working somewhat decent (I can roll in giant hold), but hp are anemic and sp is only 1300 after equipment and all the +spellpoint enhs I took from wizard, dd, and racial....

To be honest, I think it may be a wise decision to go 1 fvs/2wiz/17cle. The fvs gets you double effect from +spellpoint items, and would make a MAJOR difference in getting what you need.

Also: sunbolt is AWESOME. racial spells? _suck_.

Laeelin
08-24-2013, 09:44 AM
The fvs gets you double effect from +spellpoint items, and would make a MAJOR difference in getting what you need.

That ability doesnt work like you think it does...

It scales based on how many levels of FvS you have vs. character level

Also, thats 100sp and +3 to spell pen. VERY VERY different.

If it was +3 to all DC's people would love Morninglords! :)

phalaeo
08-30-2013, 08:39 AM
To be honest, I think it may be a wise decision to go 1 fvs/2wiz/17cle. The fvs gets you double effect from +spellpoint items, and would make a MAJOR difference in getting what you need.



You may want to read up on that a little bit more. It doesn't work the way you think it does.... basically, only the one FvS level would be getting the double SP benefit. Not worth what you'd lose, IMO.

EnziteBob
08-30-2013, 09:01 AM
Having lots of fun with mine (full light offensive caster cleric).

Blessing of Amaunator: Spell Like Ability: Amaunator blesses those in the area of effect with the following for 1 minute per caster level (3 uses per rest):
Tier 1: Aid
Tier 2: Aid and Spell Resistance
Tier 3: Aid, Spell Resistance, and Death Ward
(one of the best free AOE buffs in the game)

Rejuvenation of Dawn: Activate: Heals 10,000 hit point damage, and removes all ability damage, death penalty effects, negative levels, and the conditions blinded, dazed, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, and stunned.
This ability can be used once per rest. (Cooldown: 3 minutes)
Tier 2: This ability can be used on yourself or an ally, and you get an additional use per rest.
(may be the best single target heal in the game)

It just depends on your play style but there is a lot to love about morninglords.

Failedlegend
08-30-2013, 10:03 AM
Blessing of Amaunator: Spell Like Ability: Amaunator blesses those in the area of effect with the following for 1 minute per caster level (3 uses per rest):
Tier 1: Aid
Tier 2: Aid and Spell Resistance
Tier 3: Aid, Spell Resistance, and Death Ward
(one of the best free AOE buffs in the game)

Clerics already get all those spells...getting them as SLAs a few times a day is irrelevant



Rejuvenation of Dawn: Activate: Heals 10,000 hit point damage, and removes all ability damage, death penalty effects, negative levels, and the conditions blinded, dazed, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, and stunned.
This ability can be used once per rest. (Cooldown: 3 minutes)
Tier 2: This ability can be used on yourself or an ally, and you get an additional use per rest.
(may be the best single target heal in the game)


The 10k is overkill just a single Heal will function about the same not to mention "Unyielding Sovereignty" is pretty much the same ability w/o the limited uses which a morninglord does not have access to be their from FR where only Amauntor currently exists (to be fair DDOs Eberron is very lacking in gods as well)



It just depends on your play style but there is a lot to love about morninglords.

No, play style has nothing to do with it...theres no positives to a morninglord cleric its a badly designed iconic that manages to fail at being useful AND at being iconic (elf...really....elves are not iconics clerics...their iconic archers, iconic wizards, iconic gishes...nothing divine related though....druid maybe)

painkiller3
08-31-2013, 11:53 AM
But if you're trying to come up with a ML build which actually exploits ML-specific abilities...well, I confess that one's got me stumped so far too. :o

Only thing I could come up with was some sort of clogue using Intelligence bonuses and auto search from morning lord tree...and it will be a pain to gear...of course the obvious iconic battle cleric is pdk 1 fighter, 2 paladin, 17 cleric CHA based and dumping strength

EnziteBob
08-31-2013, 01:13 PM
Clerics already get all those spells...getting them as SLAs a few times a day is irrelevant



The 10k is overkill just a single Heal will function about the same not to mention "Unyielding Sovereignty" is pretty much the same ability w/o the limited uses which a morninglord does not have access to be their from FR where only Amauntor currently exists (to be fair DDOs Eberron is very lacking in gods as well)



No, play style has nothing to do with it...theres no positives to a morninglord cleric its a badly designed iconic that manages to fail at being useful AND at being iconic (elf...really....elves are not iconics clerics...their iconic archers, iconic wizards, iconic gishes...nothing divine related though....druid maybe)

Yes the cleric may already get those spells, but not having to spend sp on them is great. And they recharge at the shrines so that means you don't have to have three good spells slotted. That frees you up for other spells. The only thing that makes no scene is the dex for damage.

Failedlegend
08-31-2013, 02:31 PM
Yes the cleric may already get those spells, but not having to spend sp on them is great. And they recharge at the shrines so that means you don't have to have three good spells slotted. That frees you up for other spells. The only thing that makes no scene is the dex for damage.

Still fairly irrelevant, the point is theres nothing ICONIC about this class/race so IOW it fails at its own prupose

Varus
08-31-2013, 03:40 PM
Having lots of fun with mine (full light offensive caster cleric).

Blessing of Amaunator: Spell Like Ability: Amaunator blesses those in the area of effect with the following for 1 minute per caster level (3 uses per rest):
Tier 1: Aid
Tier 2: Aid and Spell Resistance
Tier 3: Aid, Spell Resistance, and Death Ward
(one of the best free AOE buffs in the game)

Rejuvenation of Dawn: Activate: Heals 10,000 hit point damage, and removes all ability damage, death penalty effects, negative levels, and the conditions blinded, dazed, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, and stunned.
This ability can be used once per rest. (Cooldown: 3 minutes)
Tier 2: This ability can be used on yourself or an ally, and you get an additional use per rest.
(may be the best single target heal in the game)

It just depends on your play style but there is a lot to love about morninglords.

Worthless when you take into account how many AP you have to sink into the racial tree to get this and what you lose in the other trees by doing so.

unbongwah
08-31-2013, 07:19 PM
Latest idea for a Morninglord build: bard 18 / barb 1 / cleric 1. Cleric opens Heal skill (bizarrely, it's not a bard skill) and Divine Might from Protection tree (+15 HPs for another 3 APs if you want); barb splash gets +10% run speed and various T1 barb abilities (Extra & Power Rage from FB, Extend Rage & Uncanny Dodger from Occult, Power Atk & Hardy Rage from Ravager).

If you have barb Rage + Skaldic Rage and use the former, the +4 STR & CON from Skaldic is auto-added on top; but if you use Skaldic first, it doesn't seem to stack. Not sure if that's WAI, but I'll try abusing it all the same! ;) Also, cleric DM is powered by SPs, not TUs like pally DM.

Base stats: at least STR 16 CON 14 CHA 14 (26 pts); at that point you can go max STR (18), max CON, more CHA, or split between INT & DEX; I did the latter, for extra skill pts and chance to add Dodge later. With ML starter gear, I was able to push my STR to 42: Base 16 + 3 lvl-ups + 5 Divine Might (CHA 20) + 6 barb rage + 2 rage spell + 4 Skaldic Rage + 6 item. Rage lasted ~3 mins and I had 4 uses of them. I also had 16 bard songs, which can power Skaldic Rage alone when I run out of "real" Rage.

Feats: Power Atk, Cleave, GC, Extend (can't cast during Rage after all), IC:Blunt, Stunning Blow. Using swords would still be better, ofc, but I figured I'd build off the theme of "fallen cleric turned bard/adventurer who uses their god's chosen weapon (i.e., mauls)." Plus it's still easier to find Stunning on blunt weapons, though I've noticed some other lootgen weapons now with Stunning.

Potential Dodge bonus @ lvl 17 (bard 15): 3% Uncanny Dodger + 8% ML:16 Duelist leather (Mobility + 6% Dodge) + 4% Inspire Heroics = 15%. Dodge feat @ lvl 18 would be another +3%. Combined w/Displacement and Ghostly item, that's not too shabby.

Potential variant: bard 15 / barb 4 / cleric 1. You give up lvl 6 spells and lvl 18 bard enhancements, but neither is must-have. Extra barb lvls gets you +1 Rage, Uncanny Dodge, and access to higher barb tiers. Supreme Cleave, Dmg Boost, lots of interesting options.

Naturally, Morninglord still doesn't add much to this build. +2-8 dmg to mauls just makes a bad weapon slightly less bad; and elves receive no inherent DC boosts like, say, dwarves. Blessing of Aman adds buffs a bard doesn't otherwise have, but I'm not sure it's worth the AP cost, esp. since Aid won't stack w/Inspire Courage, except for +HPs. Elven ASF reduction can help if you find some decent med / hvy armor of Greater Twilight and don't want WC med armor ability. But you don't need to be a ML to pick that up; and falchions > mauls for pure DPS anyway.

Also, about half the ML starter gear kinda bites for this build. Apart from the armor (which is hvy and 30% ASF = bad), there's no False Life item, no Wizardry item, and the Vitality bonus comes on a shield. There's a +CHA ring and heal amp trinket and STR & CON gear in there somewhere, but otherwise...meh. So I would only do it on a server where I had enough hand-me-downs to make it kinda-sorta worth it.

Failedlegend
08-31-2013, 09:33 PM
Nice build...I don't really see what ML adds to it though...? Personally I'd rather go Ranger 1 for the devotion than splashing 1 cleric for heal...actually scratch that Ranger ALSO will unlock heal so its superior hands down. The only bonus I see is the unyielding sovereignty which again IMO is just overkill when most players a single heal (assuming relevant equipment to boost it) is about the same thing.

Now IF the super heal healed PMs in undead form than a WizX/Cleric1 and w/e else could make use of it but of course it wouldn't because were only allowed to rely on random Harm scroll drops (still cant believe we didn't get harm as an SLA)