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View Full Version : This Update Gimped Shiradi Sorcerers



Clemeit
08-19-2013, 07:59 PM
The new 'enhancement system' is an absolute nightmare. Now, whether or not it is working for other classes is unknown to me, because I play primarily a sorcerer, and one that makes good use of the Shiradi system. Some of the things I seem to be unable to find:
Sorcerer 20% damage Capstone (Used by Everyone)
Kinetic Spellcasting line for Force Spells (Used by Shiradi)
Deadly Kinetic line for Force Spells (Used by Shiradi)
Force Manipulation line for Force Spells (Used by Shiradi)
Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded for Spell Points (Used by... EVERYONE)
Repair Manipulation line for Repair Spells (Used by WF Casters)

Also some personal Issues I seem to be having is the loss of approximately 100 Spell Points. This would be made up with the reintroduction of the Dragonblooded line. I also seem to be missing just a few Hit Points, not sure where those went (yes I still took the racial toughness things).

And as far as Shiradi sorcs are concerned, we just got screwed. A huge hit in Force Power (about 50 for me, so 50% less damage right off the bat), no more Force Crit chance lines, and no more deadly force lines for those nice numbers.

The old enhancement system was so much more versatile in my opinion, as there really is no more room in the trees to add in some of the enhancements we lost. I would suggest spending some time to make a Force Savant to give us Shiradis back some damage. As it was, Shiradi wasn't extremely powerful when compared to good nukers using Draconic Incarnation and now its just ridiculous.

Any others having trouble? I seem to think that this was the Multiclass Update, and that pures were screwed.

Flavilandile
08-20-2013, 02:58 AM
The new 'enhancement system' is an absolute nightmare.

Nothing new there. The failure from the Enhancement Crash was to be expected.



Now, whether or not it is working for other classes is unknown to me, because I play primarily a sorcerer, and one that makes good use of the Shiradi system. Some of the things I seem to be unable to find:
Sorcerer 20% damage Capstone (Used by Everyone)
Kinetic Spellcasting line for Force Spells (Used by Shiradi)
Deadly Kinetic line for Force Spells (Used by Shiradi)
Force Manipulation line for Force Spells (Used by Shiradi)
Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded for Spell Points (Used by... EVERYONE)
Repair Manipulation line for Repair Spells (Used by WF Casters)


You didn't follow the discussions from the Alpha ( and the Beta ) ?



Also some personal Issues I seem to be having is the loss of approximately 100 Spell Points. This would be made up with the reintroduction of the Dragonblooded line. I also seem to be missing just a few Hit Points, not sure where those went (yes I still took the racial toughness things).

And as far as Shiradi sorcs are concerned, we just got screwed. A huge hit in Force Power (about 50 for me, so 50% less damage right off the bat), no more Force Crit chance lines, and no more deadly force lines for those nice numbers.

The old enhancement system was so much more versatile in my opinion, as there really is no more room in the trees to add in some of the enhancements we lost. I would suggest spending some time to make a Force Savant to give us Shiradis back some damage. As it was, Shiradi wasn't extremely powerful when compared to good nukers using Draconic Incarnation and now its just ridiculous.

Any others having trouble? I seem to think that this was the Multiclass Update, and that pures were screwed.

Basically, a lot of the things you lost were bundled into the Spellcraft Skill. ( all the spellpower increase except repair, positive, negative and sonic that comes respectively from repair, heal, heal, perform skills )
Crits are hidden somewhere in the trees, though it's not always obvious where ( note : I don't play sorc, so they might have no crits in their trees ).
Spellpoint lines were obsoleted for everybody... in some cases they were put back in a tree either as a class or a race enhancement ( Elves gets some SP in their racial tree for example, in T2, it's a prerequisite for Elven AA )

Dagolar
08-20-2013, 03:25 AM
You're misunderstanding what has happened.
The basis for all these issues you mentioned isn't the changes to the enhancement system, but to Savants.

That is to say, Savants have become pure in their elemental focus;
Just like Pale Masters have with Necromancy.

The ISSUE IS, Sorcerers are currently limited to their Pale Master-equivalent specialization path, and lack a generalist, Archmage-equivalent path.
In fact, the new system is DEEPLY reliant on pure classes having at least two trees to work with. Since Sorcerers currently only have Savant, they will, in a sense, be missing half their enhancements until they get another prestige opened up.

In other words, yes, Sorcerers DID get screwed, and Turbine rushed out a product too soon yet again. But- at least for that first part- it's a temporary matter.

Neoxxz
08-20-2013, 08:48 AM
While at first glance it may seem that Shiradi Sorcs suffered with this update pass you just have to look beneath the surface to realize that they've actually become a whole lot more interesting. More depth, more complexity, more survivability (Paralysis Immunity?!) and more strategic options.

And while the force crit line is no longer present, you can still get plenty of force crit elsewhere.

For example, my Shiradi Palasorc is currently sitting at 24% force spell crit (5% Magical Training, 1% MT, 1% IMT, 1% EMT, 16% updated superior lore items) more than sufficient when you consider the sheer volume of procs a sorceror can output per unit time.

Having tried various permutations of Wiz/fvs I've concluded that, all things considered, sorcs still rule the Shiradi roost. :)

Tilomere
08-21-2013, 06:44 PM
Having tried various permutations of Wiz/fvs I've concluded that, all things considered, sorcs still rule the Shiradi roost. :)

Why limit yourself to Sorc vs. Wiz/FVS. Why not a sorc/wiz/fvs combo? I don't think it's possible to find a stronger shiradi sorc build under new or old enhancements than a triple class:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/421376-What-are-some-good-multiclass-sorcerer-options

Really the essence of shiradi sorcs is low level spells (or meteor), and the essence of a pure sorc is big badda boom. The new enhancements just make sense for that. Pure sorcs get better draconic interactions for powerful spells, and multiclass ones get better shiradi interactions for their lower level spells.

You just won't be able to have everything anymore. But everyone having everything isn't really a choice.

AtomicMew
08-21-2013, 07:52 PM
You're just expecting to be able to play the exact same build with the same spells and enhancement lineup after a significant update. You need to start from scratch and rethink everything instead of just expecting to max one spellpower and spam only those spells affected by that certain spellpower.

Shiradi sorcs are extremely more powerful after the update, especially with the last minute changes that got implemented that weren't on lamm. You just need to rethink how things work.

AtomicMew
08-21-2013, 07:56 PM
Why limit yourself to Sorc vs. Wiz/FVS. Why not a sorc/wiz/fvs combo? I don't think it's possible to find a stronger shiradi sorc build under new or old enhancements than a triple class:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/421376-What-are-some-good-multiclass-sorcerer-options

Really the essence of shiradi sorcs is low level spells (or meteor), and the essence of a pure sorc is big badda boom. The new enhancements just make sense for that. Pure sorcs get better draconic interactions for powerful spells, and multiclass ones get better shiradi interactions for their lower level spells.

You just won't be able to have everything anymore. But everyone having everything isn't really a choice.

Any shiradi sorc that does not have meteor swarm has no place being called the strongest shiradi sorc build. Meteor swarm is the best spell in the shiradi arsenal and there are enough strong enhancements that you don't automatically have to look in other classes for enhancements, like before. The most you should be splashing on any sorc is 2 (FvS, monk or paladin).

CaptEHCJ
08-21-2013, 11:16 PM
Could you point me to some of the "last minute changes that got implemented that weren't on lamm"? Thanks!




You're just expecting to be able to play the exact same build with the same spells and enhancement lineup after a significant update. You need to start from scratch and rethink everything instead of just expecting to max one spellpower and spam only those spells affected by that certain spellpower.

Shiradi sorcs are extremely more powerful after the update, especially with the last minute changes that got implemented that weren't on lamm. You just need to rethink how things work.

Neoxxz
08-22-2013, 12:44 AM
Why limit yourself to Sorc vs. Wiz/FVS. Why not a sorc/wiz/fvs combo? I don't think it's possible to find a stronger shiradi sorc build under new or old enhancements than a triple class:

You need 18 levels of Sorc for Knockdown Immunity and Paralysis immunity which collectively are a massive aid to survivability and when coupled with an easily achievable 200% fortification and a quickened full-bar Reconstruct make you virtually unkillable.

You also need 18 levels of Sorc for Meteor Swarm.

Divine Grace is immense. On a CHA build, allows you to achieve saves in the 60s or 70s. There is no way I'd sacrifice this for a slightly higher spellpower/spell crit, or a bit of active mana regen.

Shiradi's are about so much more than spamming cheap Force spells.

AtomicMew
08-22-2013, 03:12 AM
Could you point me to some of the "last minute changes that got implemented that weren't on lamm"? Thanks!

I meant to say that they were implemented on lamm at the last minute. I'm talking about 2-3 things mainly:

1) Tier 4 core enhancements procs
2) Higher spellpower per core enhancement
3) +10 force enhancement at the top of the tree (pretty sure it wasn't there in the original pass). Not a huge benefit, but still it's better than nothing.

thesnoman
08-22-2013, 12:55 PM
Here's my take - Shiradi Sorcs are better and more versatile than before.

I've seen several permutations of the Shiradi Sorc since the update, but I haven't posted mine yet, but lets just say is focuses on using very little SP and very high durability.

I'm also not as focused on the ultra-high Force spell power that some people are claiming to get (I heard one person talking about 400+), but it does need to be reasonably high for those damage procs. Currently I sit right around 305 Force SP.

I'm still working a few things out - like whether it's worth taking Maximize for just a few spells (SLAs) and whether or not I like the tier 4 twist in Magister for Force spell cooldowns (15% doesn't seem like much, but shaving 1 sec off the cooldown of MM and FM means that you can spam them with no pause between, but this is at the cost of losing your T4 Draconic Burst)

Like I mentioned, I'm still tinkering with my Shiradi Sorc, but there's a few things I still need to play with (Messing with Fire enhancements for Meteor Swarm, but not sure I like it)

I'll Probably post my U19 Shiradi build(s) later after a full weekend of playing with them on Live.