PDA

View Full Version : U19 Elven AA help?



Tenebris-Niatellim
08-19-2013, 07:51 PM
I have an elven arcane archer and now that this U19 update hit I noticed that if you spend 19 points into the race tree you could take Grace which allows the Dexetrity modifier to determine damage with long/shortbows (and any elf melee weapon you chose at the start of the tree).

Knowing this I think I see a possibility of making a arcane archer elf that dosent need str (beside 10 str to prevent enfeebling). Am I going insane?

Also seeing how Arcane Archer is only 1 point (because you already would spend 19 points in the elf tree) would you be better off going pure ranger or multiclassing with AA as a elf enhancement?

The only problem I see is that the new enhancement pass has so many good skills and not enough AP.

Can anyone help me/ provide me with a reliable build with the new pass? And comment on the potential of this dex modifier for bows?

Carpone
08-20-2013, 12:33 PM
Knowing this I think I see a possibility of making a arcane archer elf that dosent need str (beside 10 str to prevent enfeebling). Am I going insane?
If you dump Strength, then you can't get Overwhelming Critical.

You're going to do less damage with DEX for dmg compared to STR for dmg.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-20-2013, 12:56 PM
If you dump Strength, then you can't get Overwhelming Critical.

You're going to do less damage with DEX for dmg compared to STR for dmg.

Okay then what if you get enough strength for overwhelming critical, wont it be better to go down the elven AA route for the convenient access to Grace? Or is going down the actual AA route the best route still for rangers?

I've noticed people multiclass heavily with Arcane Archer, is there any good post U19 builds that have a viable Arcane Archer?

Alfhild
08-20-2013, 01:05 PM
If you dump Strength, then you can't get Overwhelming Critical.

You're going to do less damage with DEX for dmg compared to STR for dmg.

For a player with access to only +2 or +3 tomes, Elven DEX damage can still make a viable if not optimal alternative considering that Combat Archery now seems to be working.

ArcaneArcher52689
08-20-2013, 01:45 PM
If you dump Strength, then you can't get Overwhelming Critical.

You're going to do less damage with DEX for dmg compared to STR for dmg.

not necessarily.

Right now, OC is the main benefit of going str-based.
However, a dex based build on an elf can hit a decent dex score without sacrificing nearly as much.
OC will need a +3 tome, and 5 levels, and that's a starting dex of 15. It also requires you to take 3 feats that do absolutely nothing for your ranged damage.

Also, once combat archery is fixed, it will improve point blank shot by 1[W]. Consider the bonus of 1x multiplier to be ~50 damage on the average crit(all other things equal), so ideally, that's 100 damage over 20 shots. Combat archery will add about 4.5 for shot, so 90 damage over 20 shots. Not that big of a difference. It's also difficult for a first life character to qualify for Overwhelming critical AND combat archery without a lot of tomes and investment, especially on an elf where your Con will suffer no matter what.




As for the OP's question, personally, I'll probably splash monk instead of going the racial route. 6 levels of monk +11 points into the ninja spy tree + zen archery gives dex to damage for bows, 10k stars, 3 bonus feats, shadowfade, 2 sneak attack dice and +3% dodge, opens up henshin (not much here) and shintao(positive spell power/heal amp), and allows you to grab grandmaster stances at the cost of 2 feats!

But on a pure AA, i'd probably do exactly what you said. Max dex/con/wis, 10/20/14/8/12/8 on a 32 pt build, put all lvls into dex, so at 20, your dex is 20+5+9(gear)+4(enhancement)=38 dex.

unbongwah
08-20-2013, 03:41 PM
. . . once combat archery is fixed . . .
Great Gygax's Ghost, it's been over a year - how is this still not fixed yet? :eek:

Oh right, because Turbine. Never mind. :rolleyes:

whereispowderedsilve
08-20-2013, 04:05 PM
Great Gygax's Ghost, it's been over a year - how is this still not fixed yet? :eek:

Oh right, because Turbine. Never mind. :rolleyes:

It is fixed, Carpone tested it on Lama I think in the last build before it went live. Is it fixed on live right now? Carpone might know that/this as well.

I maybe wrong tho, I don't want to presume anything. Cheers! :P! :)!

Carpone
08-23-2013, 09:50 AM
not necessarily.

Right now, OC is the main benefit of going str-based.
However, a dex based build on an elf can hit a decent dex score without sacrificing nearly as much.
OC will need a +3 tome, and 5 levels, and that's a starting dex of 15. It also requires you to take 3 feats that do absolutely nothing for your ranged damage.

Also, once combat archery is fixed, it will improve point blank shot by 1[W].


For a player with access to only +2 or +3 tomes, Elven DEX damage can still make a viable if not optimal alternative considering that Combat Archery now seems to be working.

You know it's possible to have both Overwhelming Critical and Combat Archery on an Elf, right? I've got it built right now. STR remains the optimal stat for two reasons:

1. You need 23 STR for Overwhelming Critical
2. Primal Scream nets you +5 STR. There's no DEX equivalent.

While DEX for damage can be competitive (as long as you take OC), it's not optimal for AA.

As for "wasting" feat slots for Cleave, Great Cleave and Power Attack, I challenge you to select replacement feats that provide anywhere near the DPS that Overwhelming Critical nets the AA archetype.

Alfhild
08-23-2013, 01:18 PM
You know it's possible to have both Overwhelming Critical and Combat Archery on an Elf, right? I've got it built right now. STR remains the optimal stat for two reasons:

1. You need 23 STR for Overwhelming Critical
2. Primal Scream nets you +5 STR. There's no DEX equivalent.

While DEX for damage can be competitive (as long as you take OC), it's not optimal for AA.

As for "wasting" feat slots for Cleave, Great Cleave and Power Attack, I challenge you to select replacement feats that provide anywhere near the DPS that Overwhelming Critical nets the AA archetype.
You can definitely get Overwhelming Crit and CA on an Elf but you need to gimp your CON and WIS to do so (unless you have access to +4/+5 tomes.) I am speaking of Monkcher builds when referencing WIS of course. In terms of feats, yes you can blow 3 feats slots on the OC prereqs, but you give up survivability in exchange whether Toughness & Epic Toughness, Empower Heal and Quicken for Rejuv Cocoon, Dodge, improved Monk stances etc. And if you are leaving DEX at the minimum required for CA, your Evasion is not going to be the greatest as well.

Alfhild
08-23-2013, 01:29 PM
Edit post function is not working so just adding one thing: how do you make up for the +5 STR from primal scream? Use points and level ups you have spent on STR to Increase Dex instead and take a point or 2 in the DEX stat enhancements available in the Elf, Ranger, and Monk trees.

Wipey
08-23-2013, 02:14 PM
Another crit multiplier is huge when every adrenalined arrow is autocrit.
You can have OC, Combat archery, ~ 40 wis buffed, ~ 24 dodge in earth and ~ 800 hp .
Of course maybe not on first life 28 pt build, but monkcher has always been advanced build for 36 point characters with buncha tomes.
Without pally splash or heavy reflex twists your reflex is going to be lackluster anyway, relying more on movement, spell absorbs or improved evasion.
You don't need quicken for cocoon :)

Alfhild
08-23-2013, 02:56 PM
Another crit multiplier is huge when every adrenalined arrow is autocrit.
You can have OC, Combat archery, ~ 40 wis buffed, ~ 24 dodge in earth and ~ 800 hp .
Of course maybe not on first life 28 pt build, but monkcher has always been advanced build for 36 point characters with buncha tomes.
Without pally splash or heavy reflex twists your reflex is going to be lackluster anyway, relying more on movement, spell absorbs or improved evasion.
You don't need quicken for cocoon :)
Sorry about the cocoon reference for quicken: forgot to add CSW there. And I agree that the build you are suggesting is an advanced build. But, as I have been consistently stating, an Elf Dex based Monkcher is now a viable build for the non-uber player and does not require OC to get decent DPS. By limiting stat concentration to 3 stats instead of 4, you can achieve a higher WIS for instance than you suggest. I am running 40 WIS completely ununbuffed with a +3 tome. When buffed passed the 42 mark, this allows for a greater chance of 4 procced arrows on the new +3W special shots in the AA tree. Will my WIS make up for OC? No, but it will close the gap somewhat. The reality is that in the past if you did not have the gear or tomes, the Monkcher was not a viable build for the casual player, mainly be cause stat distribution among 4 stats prevented the average player from reaching the various stat thresholds required for DPS and survivability. With the 3 stat distribution offered by Grace in the Elf tree the casual can still be viable if not optimal.

jskinner937
08-31-2013, 07:10 PM
I opted out of Grace, but certainly took advantage of the dragonmarks in the elven tree (which can be extended for free). Elfs are the new sexy.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-31-2013, 07:45 PM
Okay so I tried out elven grace, didn't seem to do that much dmg (probably because I didn't respec first (facepalm)). But I'm on the edge about it. I lesser reincarnated to a tempest because archer felt lackluster but tempest felt lackluster as well since I already had a strong melee ( my barbarian) and my favorite character my TWF int Rogue. So I decided to switch back to an archer ranger since I couldn't see any class which elf would be good at other then ranger T_T. And also because someone pointed out I could use Deepwood enhancements as well and cycle through the skills in both trees while my multi shot is on cooldown (considering I don't have monk for monkcher (god dam the op pay to win class T_T)). So I'm going to use my +20 heart of wood sadly to remake my ranger (who was my first toon I leveled past 5, and thus is currently my highest level toon at lvl 9). (goodbye easy way to get a past life in a boring class).

So to make sure I don't feel gimped once I +20 lesser reincarnate tomorrow, can anyone suggest a non-gimped f2p ranged build? OR some other build that elves are good at, since I can't seem to tell -_-.

And also I do like those shadow dragonmarks XD. But i'm not sure if they're useful at all in comparison to the feat and ap spent on them.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-31-2013, 07:46 PM
EDIT: Classes not build.

Alfhild
08-31-2013, 08:20 PM
can anyone suggest a non-gimped f2p ranged build?
If you want suggestions, you need to let people know if you are a 28 or 32 pt character and what tomes currently have.

unbongwah
08-31-2013, 09:15 PM
This thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423511-Toxophilite) has some thoughts on AAs, as well as one potential build.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-31-2013, 11:43 PM
Got no tomes currently (beside a +1 concentration tome lol XD). And it would be a 28 point build. I think something to add some flavor to the build would be great. Something like the dragonmark of shadow, and some investment into deepwood to compliment. I learned from playing my rogue that I really like the sneak playstyle and sneaky around then bursting people with sneak attack multi shots sound cool (if doable). I just want a build that's viable, fun to play rather then optimal (if that has to be sacrificed). I just want to have fun, be able to compete in kill count when I want to.

So laid out, some things I'm considering is.

1. Dragonmark of Shadow coupled with deepwood enhancements to add a sneaky shadowy touch
2. Deepwood and Arcane Archer skills to fill in the time between multi shot.
3. Mostly range but using melee occasionally is fine too.


Except I have no idea how to make that into a ungimped 28 point build with no tomes to speak of other then ones I might get by luck (I have been seeing a lot of +1 tomes pop up in chests now, and IVe been eyeing that 100 roll on the silver dice XD).

Alfhild
09-01-2013, 12:04 AM
Two questions:
Alignment?
Do you want to remain pure or do you mind multiclassing?

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 12:10 AM
Two questions:
Alignment?
Do you want to remain pure or do you mind multiclassing?

Alignment dosent matter, and I don't care if its pure or multi classing, so long as its fun, viable and useful (and hopefully does what I posted above). Dosent have to be optimal (although being as optimal as it can is nice ^_^).

The only problem I have with multi class is people always recommend p2p classes.

btw just to reiterate, i'm an elf.

Thank you for your help ^_^.

Alfhild
09-01-2013, 12:12 AM
Alignment dosent matter, and I don't care if its pure or multi classing, so long as its fun, viable and useful (and hopefully does what I posted above). Dosent have to be optimal (although being as optimal as it can is nice ^_^).

The only problem I have with multi class is people always recommend p2p classes.

btw just to reiterate, i'm an elf.

Thank you for your help ^_^.

I meant what is your current alignment since that cannot be changed in an LR.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 12:18 AM
I meant what is your current alignment since that cannot be changed in an LR.

ohhh daaaam. Brb I'll get on and check.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 12:20 AM
Lawful Neutral

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 12:25 AM
Lawful Neutral

Is this problematic?

Alfhild
09-01-2013, 01:40 AM
Is this problematic?
Nope was just pondering a splash but no big deal.
Ok, here is my suggestion and you and others feel free to criticize and question.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Elf Male
(4 Fighter \ 16 Ranger)
Hit Points: 310
Spell Points: 200
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 17
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 12
Dexterity 18 22
Constitution 16 21
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Automatic) Archer's Focus


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)




L21 Feat is Combat Archery
L24 is Epic Toughness and Stat level up in DEX
you will need to get the +2 Con and +1 DEX tomes before taking the two Epic feats.


I am assuming you have 32 AP currently to spend.

18AP in Elven Racial

2AP Elven Accuracyx2
2AP Elven Dexterity
1AP Dragonmark Focus x1
2AP Lesser Dragonmark
2AP Greater Dragonmark
8AP Elven Weap Training X4 in Longbow/Rapier/Longsword
1AP Grace

6AP in DWS

1AP Far Shot DWS T1 Core
3AP Increased Empathy x3
1AP Versatile Empathy x1
1AP Improved Weapon Finesse

7AP in AA
1AP AA Core T1
2AP Conjure Arrows
2AP Energy of the Wild x2
2AP Force Arrows x1

That would be your current AP expenditure with 1 AP left over.
What I suggest for later levels is the following
The 18AP in Elven

32 AP in AA
4AP L1 to L12 AA cores
2AP Conjure Arrows
3AP Energy of the Wildx3
2AP Force Arrows x1
6AP Dispelling Shot x3
2AP Terror Arrows x1
1AP Soul Magic
2AP +1 DEX
2AP Paralysing Arrows x1
6AP in either of Inferno or Shattermantle Shot x3
2AP Arrow of Slaying

14 AP in DWS
3AP in DWS Cores L1 to L6
3AP Increased Empathy x3
1AP Versatile Empathy x2
1AP Improved Weapon Finesse
6AP Action Boost Damage x3 OR

This leave 16AP for you to spend.
I would consider getting some of the dodge/reflex stuff from Kensai and/or Tempest.
If you need more spellpoints go Moonbow.
Also all four trees allow DEX stat upgrades and you would also have one still available in Elven Racial.
It goes without saying this is a Longbow/Rapier build, but also make sure to pick up a set of Light Maces.
You absolutely need +STR and +WIS gear (the best you can find) in addition to DEX and CON.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 10:45 AM
Just curious since I've never had a fighter splash, what exactly does those levels of fighter offer?

In addition wouldn't it be a good idea to get Feywild tap? (gives incorporeal to top off on the concealment bonus as well as bonus mana) but that might be using a lot of AP...

Also is elven grace really needed? I love dex, dump strength builds, but only problem is I don't see taking deepwood archer capstone anywhere (is it not worth taking? It sounds really good) and getting eleven grace costs ALOT of AP that subtracts from other trees. So just wondering the pros, cons and reasoning behind taking elven grace.

Alfhild
09-01-2013, 11:19 AM
Just curious since I've never had a fighter splash, what exactly does those levels of fighter offer?

In addition wouldn't it be a good idea to get Feywild tap? (gives incorporeal to top off on the concealment bonus as well as bonus mana) but that might be using a lot of AP...

Also is elven grace really needed? I love dex, dump strength builds, but only problem is I don't see taking deepwood archer capstone anywhere (is it not worth taking? It sounds really good) and getting eleven grace costs ALOT of AP that subtracts from other trees. So just wondering the pros, cons and reasoning behind taking elven grace.
4 levels of Fighter offer 3 bonus feats. It also offers access to the Kensai tree which does have some nice low hanging fruit.
Without Elven Grace, you will not get DEX to damage with bows or rapiers. Without DEX to damage on a STR dumped build, you will find your ability to kill mobs becoming severely hindered as you level. Your Ranged and Melee damaged will be SEVERELY gimped on a build which is not optimal to begin with. ;)
The build assumes you are taking the AA capstone not the DWS one. Elven grace is expensive but you mentioned you wanted Dragonmarks and the other APs invested there are + to ranged hit, +1 DEX, and +1 dam to bows and rapiers. 4 Tiers of +1 hit/dam to bows and rapiers is basically +8 DEX without the saves and AC. As for Feywild, I do not believe it worth the AP investment for 10% incorp. If you can reach L16 by late October, you can get a L16 Cloak of Night which has Ghostly as does the T2 L20 Stalker ring.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 12:09 PM
Thank you for explaining ^_^ .

And I reread the arcane archer capstone again, my distaste for it has lessened. I thought for a while that it was basically a +2 dex with 10% Double shot, which was distasteful since double shot proc gets debuffed past the point of no use every time I use multishot. But then I realized that the main part of the skill was how it kept the previous imbuement for 30 seconds meaning you can have for example paralyzing arrows on then switch the imbue stance to force, and for 30 seconds youll be hitting paralyzing force arrows. If I'm reading this correctly.

Sounds pretty decent.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 12:16 PM
Also the main reason why I mentioned Feywild tap was for the extra SP it gives since I vaguely remember someone mentioning something about SP shortage problems when rapidly using DwS and AA skills in rotation while waiting for multishot. So is moonbow and other enhancements in the AA tree good enough to allow decent SP management?

Alfhild
09-01-2013, 12:20 PM
Thank you for explaining ^_^ .

And I reread the arcane archer capstone again, my distaste for it has lessened. I thought for a while that it was basically a +2 dex with 10% Double shot, which was distasteful since double shot proc gets debuffed past the point of no use every time I use multishot. But then I realized that the main part of the skill was how it kept the previous imbuement for 30 seconds meaning you can have for example paralyzing arrows on then switch the imbue stance to force, and for 30 seconds youll be hitting paralyzing force arrows. If I'm reading this correctly.

Sounds pretty decent.
Sorry I was not referring to the AA capstone. I thought you meant the ML5 abilities, which you can only access in 1 tree. The L20 DWS Core is nice. The L6 DWS core is better. If you are going 32AP in AA and 18 in Elf, you cannot get the DWS L20 Capstone. As for AA Capstone, not sure if imbue dancing would work but it would be an interesting idea but also a spellpoint hog.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 12:37 PM
Sorry I was not referring to the AA capstone. I thought you meant the ML5 abilities, which you can only access in 1 tree. The L20 DWS Core is nice. The L6 DWS core is better. If you are going 32AP in AA and 18 in Elf, you cannot get the DWS L20 Capstone. As for AA Capstone, not sure if imbue dancing would work but it would be an interesting idea but also a spellpoint hog.

Imbue dancing, sounds like a cool term. I'll try it out, probably will run into the spell point problem but as long as its manageable I think itll be fine...I hope.

BTW are the shadow marks worth it? Correction not worth it (since theyre probably not optimal) but are they a total waste or are their benefits useful enough? Stylistically they're nice but in your honest opinion are they are waste of AP or useful in certain situations? Since being able to cast displacement is really nice and the +2 hide with invisibility will allow some sneaking etc.

96th_Malice
09-01-2013, 12:41 PM
So after rebuilding 8 of the 18 archer toons .... I can honestly say you are still better going STR based.

I have yet to find a way to get my DEX score as high as STR in the higher levels.

Maybe ( maybe ) as a pure ranger grace is a viable option and my 23rd lvl elf pure ranger AA is actually doing better than she was pre U19 with the use of grace ... BUT even with the Epic bow of Earth, I have 20th lvl archer cross class toons doing more DPS.

There are just way too many enhancements that boost STR .... Not to mention if you are going with a couple lvls of ranger in your build you are gaining 3 free ranged feats regardless.

Don't ignore the DEX based Combat Archery as it is now fixed BUT more importantly the STR based Overwhelming Critical is devastating ( even though it involves a couple non ranged feats to get it ... It's well worth the investment )

Do not ... DO NOT waste the feats mobility and dodge to gain shot on the run as it is bugged ..... Honestly unless you are killing mobs you are better off standing in the precise shot stance than improved precise shot for the extra damage.

Geez there is so much I can tell you about archers post U19 BUT the wife need the iPad back !

Good luck with your builds

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 12:41 PM
4 levels of Fighter offer 3 bonus feats. It also offers access to the Kensai tree which does have some nice low hanging fruit.
Without Elven Grace, you will not get DEX to damage with bows or rapiers. Without DEX to damage on a STR dumped build, you will find your ability to kill mobs becoming severely hindered as you level. Your Ranged and Melee damaged will be SEVERELY gimped on a build which is not optimal to begin with. ;)
The build assumes you are taking the AA capstone not the DWS one. Elven grace is expensive but you mentioned you wanted Dragonmarks and the other APs invested there are + to ranged hit, +1 DEX, and +1 dam to bows and rapiers. 4 Tiers of +1 hit/dam to bows and rapiers is basically +8 DEX without the saves and AC. As for Feywild, I do not believe it worth the AP investment for 10% incorp. If you can reach L16 by late October, you can get a L16 Cloak of Night which has Ghostly as does the T2 L20 Stalker ring.

Also what enhancements for Kensei are notable? I've never done fighter or a splash of it, so I can't really judge what would be good enhancement distributions for that tree?

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 12:50 PM
So after rebuilding 8 of the 18 archer toons .... I can honestly say you are still better going STR based.

I have yet to find a way to get my DEX score as high as STR in the higher levels.

Maybe ( maybe ) as a pure ranger grace is a viable option and my 23rd lvl elf pure ranger AA is actually doing better than she was pre U19 with the use of grace ... BUT even with the Epic bow of Earth, I have 20th lvl archer cross class toons doing more DPS.

There are just way too many enhancements that boost STR .... Not to mention if you are going with a couple lvls of ranger in your build you are gaining 3 free ranged feats regardless.

Don't ignore the DEX based Combat Archery as it is now fixed BUT more importantly the STR based Overwhelming Critical is devastating ( even though it involves a couple non ranged feats to get it ... It's well worth the investment )

Do not ... DO NOT waste the feats mobility and dodge to gain shot on the run as it is bugged ..... Honestly unless you are killing mobs you are better off standing in the precise shot stance than improved precise shot for the extra damage.

Geez there is so much I can tell you about archers post U19 BUT the wife need the iPad back !

Good luck with your builds

I'm open to str builds as well. I'm pretty clueless so any advice is useful, and I can't lesser reincarnate until tomorrow so the more discussion and planning I can hear here will lessen the possibnility that I will regret when I actually play my reincarnated character.

I'm under the impression tho that grace was taken to utilize the ap investment that investing in dragonmarks gives? I'm forgetful why was it a grace dex build again? Will re-read prev comments whne I get back, sorry im in a hurry right now to leave so can't think straight XD.

96th_Malice
09-01-2013, 01:16 PM
I'm open to str builds as well. I'm pretty clueless so any advice is useful, and I can't lesser reincarnate until tomorrow so the more discussion and planning I can hear here will lessen the possibnility that I will regret when I actually play my reincarnated character.

I'm under the impression tho that grace was taken to utilize the ap investment that investing in dragonmarks gives? I'm forgetful why was it a grace dex build again? Will re-read prev comments whne I get back, sorry im in a hurry right now to leave so can't think straight XD.

Hmmm if I knew how to post builds I would help you out for sure .... Other than my 10k archer build all of the toons were created on my own trying to achieve different things. For sure there are close builds that people have created and posted here that some will say .... Ahhhh that's the xxxxx build. NO IDEA hehe

The big difference between most builds on here and mine is that most of the others here are smart and make their toons melee viable as well while manyshot or 10k stars is on cool down.

Me ..... Nope ..... Stubborn ..... No melee, I play my archers the same way as I used to in PnP ... All ranged all the time

When it comes down to it .... It's really about what you want out of the toon. Although when joining groups or raids you may be asked a lot of " what are you doing with that build " questions.

There are not a lot of new builds posted here yet as at it seems most of the old builds are still somewhat decent and not to mention U19 is still pretty new.

If I can't figure out how to post builds here now ... Feel free to shoot me a message here in the forums or if you happen to be on khyber you can contact any of the toons below .... 90% of the time I am on one of those characters.

OR I have most of these toons on the other servers as well ... Just 1st lvl but I can at least talk to you over the microphone rather than typing ...MUCH EASIER !

Have a good afternoon

unbongwah
09-01-2013, 02:19 PM
1. Dragonmark of Shadow coupled with deepwood enhancements to add a sneaky shadowy touch
2. Deepwood and Arcane Archer skills to fill in the time between multi shot.
3. Mostly range but using melee occasionally is fine too.
Funny you should mention it, because I've been experimenting with DEX-based elf rgr options...

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 25 True Neutral Elf Female
(20 Ranger \ 5 Epic)
Hit Points: 280
Spell Points: 260
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 19
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 25)
Strength 13 13
Dexterity 19 25
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration (or Construct)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 17 (Ranger)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Ranger)


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elf


Level 21 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 22 (Ranger)


Level 23 (Ranger)


Level 24 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Archery


Level 25 (Ranger)


Elf (19 APs)
Accuracy 1 (1 AP)
Aerenal Training 1 (2 AP)
Dragonmark Focus x3 (3 AP)
Lesser DM (2 AP)
Aerenal Training 2 (2 AP)
Greater DM (2 AP)
Aerenal Training 3 (2 AP)
Child of Nature (1 AP - filler)
Aerenal Training 4 (2 AP)
Grace (1 AP)
Skill (1 AP)

Arcane Archer (41 APs)
Arcane Archer (1 AP)
Conjure Arrows (2 AP)
Elemental Arrows 1 (2 AP)
Morphic Arrows (1 AP)
Energy of the Wild x3 (3 AP)
Elemental Arrows 2 (2 AP)
Metalline Arrows (1 AP)
Inferno Shot x3 (6 AP)
Elemental Arrows 3 (2 AP)
Aligned Arrows (1 AP)
Terror Arrows (2 AP)
Soul Magic (1 AP)
Paralyzing Arrows (2 AP)
Elemental Arrows 4 (2 AP)
Banishing Arrows (1 AP)
Smiting Arrows (1 AP)
Shadow Arrows (1 AP)
Moonbow (2 AP)
Slaying Arrow (2 AP)
Imp Elemental Arrows (1 AP)
Dispelling Shot (2 AP - filler)
Master of Imbuement (1 AP)

Deepwood Sniper (11 APs)
Far Shot (1 AP)
Inc Empathy x3 (3 AP)
Versatile Empathy x2 (2 AP)
Sneak Atk 1 (1 AP)
Dmg Boost x3 (3 AP)
Sniper Shot (1 AP)

Tempest (9 APs)
Shield of Whirling Steel (1 AP)
Whirling Blades 1 (2 AP)
Improved Defense 1 (2 AP - filler)
Tempest (1 AP)
Haste Boost x3 (3 AP)

Primarily ranged-focused; cycles thru Inferno Shot and Sniper Shot while MS is on cooldown. Between EotW 3 (which adds Magical Training), Soul Magic, and Moonbow, shouldn't run out of SPs (knock on wood). I debated skipping Tempest entirely to put more pts into DWS (e.g., Aimed Shot, Stealthy x3 for +1d6 SA); but I wanted Haste Boost and +10% offhand procs. Shadow DMs provide Invisibility and Displacement. DWS Empathy provides +75 Positive spellpower; Emp Heal is mostly to pick up w/Rejuvenation Cocoon.

To be clear, I think going STR-based is still the sensible thing to do; too many ways to boost STR instead of DEX and too many pts spent into elven racial tree just to get Grace (which are better spent on rgr enhs). Heck, for that matter I'm inclined to think halfling or HEs w/rog dilly make better rgrs than elves, just for the extra sneak atk dmg which stacks w/DWS. But I am nothing if not committed to my gimpy flavor builds. :cool:

Alfhild
09-01-2013, 02:46 PM
To be clear, I think going STR-based is still the sensible thing to do; too many ways to boost STR instead of DEX and too many pts spent into elven racial tree just to get Grace (which are better spent on rgr enhs). Heck, for that matter I'm inclined to think halfling or HEs w/rog dilly make better rgrs than elves, just for the extra sneak atk dmg which stacks w/DWS. But I am nothing if not committed to my gimpy flavor builds. :cool:
The points spent in Elven grace are not entirely wasted. +4 hit/damage is equal to +8 STR or DEX (depending on build). And the OP was interested in Dragonmarks. I think the thing to keep in mind is that the OP is a 28pt character who is from his or her other posts, is currently farming favour. So he is not going to have the gear we come to expect from a TR'ed toon or someone who can craft for alts or pass BtA items via the shared bank. I think we need to realize he will be doing quests on heroic normal and heroic hard. In that content, it is easy to make Evasion a VERY worthwhile investment on a DEX based build. As for STR>DEX, yes I agree this is true for a VIP/Premium TR'ed toon. But he is not going to have Primal Scream or Titan's Grip etc. He also is not going to have a Minos Legens and GS HP item waiting for him at L11. I think he needs to max CON to 16.
To the OP:
Download the following PDF: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1XEiRynfK4LT3VISkI1ZEtaaFk/edit
You can see the Kensai enhancements there. As I mentioned, there is some very nice low hanging fruit you can get for a 12 AP investment including a +30 Haste boost for 3 AP instead of 6 AP in Tempest. Though the DWS damage boost and Kensai Haste Boost cannot be used concurrently, if you purchase them both, you do get 10 charges of damage enhancing boosts that can be used sequentially. If you make sure to always use them, it is not a bad investment to get both. If you are not a clickie person, only get one.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-01-2013, 03:17 PM
The points spent in Elven grace are not entirely wasted. +4 hit/damage is equal to +8 STR or DEX (depending on build). And the OP was interested in Dragonmarks. I think the thing to keep in mind is that the OP is a 28pt character who is from his or her other posts, is currently farming favour. So he is not going to have the gear we come to expect from a TR'ed toon or someone who can craft for alts or pass BtA items via the shared bank. I think we need to realize he will be doing quests on heroic normal and heroic hard. In that content, it is easy to make Evasion a VERY worthwhile investment on a DEX based build. As for STR>DEX, yes I agree this is true for a VIP/Premium TR'ed toon. But he is not going to have Primal Scream or Titan's Grip etc. He also is not going to have a Minos Legens and GS HP item waiting for him at L11. I think he needs to max CON to 16.
To the OP:
Download the following PDF: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1XEiRynfK4LT3VISkI1ZEtaaFk/edit
You can see the Kensai enhancements there. As I mentioned, there is some very nice low hanging fruit you can get for a 12 AP investment including a +30 Haste boost for 3 AP instead of 6 AP in Tempest. Though the DWS damage boost and Kensai Haste Boost cannot be used concurrently, if you purchase them both, you do get 10 charges of damage enhancing boosts that can be used sequentially. If you make sure to always use them, it is not a bad investment to get both. If you are not a clickie person, only get one.

Your spot on, on analyzing my current situation ^_^. My current plan of action is probably focusing on getting my ranger to lvl 20 for TR (of course if it gets too gimped it'll never reach that far D:). And play on my lvl 7 sorcerer with my friends, and try to get my lvl 6 int rogue as high as I can. I might get VIP in the future but that's months from now

But yeah, am I right in assuming that a dex based archer is now best for people not loaded on gear? Since I noticed a lot of the high end gear are in p2p quests. I just don't want to feel gimped shooting arrows that do like 30 dmg at lvl 9 T_T.

Alfhild
09-01-2013, 03:41 PM
Your spot on, on analyzing my current situation ^_^. My current plan of action is probably focusing on getting my ranger to lvl 20 for TR (of course if it gets too gimped it'll never reach that far D:). And play on my lvl 7 sorcerer with my friends, and try to get my lvl 6 int rogue as high as I can. I might get VIP in the future but that's months from now

But yeah, am I right in assuming that a dex based archer is now best for people not loaded on gear? Since I noticed a lot of the high end gear are in p2p quests. I just don't want to feel gimped shooting arrows that do like 30 dmg at lvl 9 T_T.
Being DEX based means you will have better Evasion which is important for the content you will be running. You will have DPS since the items which buff STR>DEX are found in P2P content. As for going VIP, I would say no. Rather wait for the following to go on sale:
http://store.turbine.com/store/turbine/en_US/pd/ThemeID.29252200/productID.246618200/categoryID.58516100
The MOTU Standard edition is a terrific value for the new DDO player compared to other offers.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-02-2013, 01:45 PM
Being DEX based means you will have better Evasion which is important for the content you will be running. You will have DPS since the items which buff STR>DEX are found in P2P content. As for going VIP, I would say no. Rather wait for the following to go on sale:
http://store.turbine.com/store/turbine/en_US/pd/ThemeID.29252200/productID.246618200/categoryID.58516100
The MOTU Standard edition is a terrific value for the new DDO player compared to other offers.

Okay I went with your build, but for skills I took off 2 from hide and move silently to max UMD. Not gamebreaking but I feel like I probably need UMD and now that much hide and move silently since its a dex build In the first place, so good stat mods.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-02-2013, 01:57 PM
I just noticed, why do your build say to raise constitution and not dex? 16 constitution is pretty high imo and you are recommending to raise it more?

Alfhild
09-02-2013, 02:09 PM
I just noticed, why do your build say to raise constitution and not dex? 16 constitution is pretty high imo and you are recommending to raise it more?
A dead ranger cannot kill anything. You are a 28pt build without access to most HP enhancing gear. My recommendation will allow you to get Epic Toughness at L21 or L24 should you get MOTU. Your highest level character is L9. This means that you will be doing higher level adventures for the first time without meta knowledge of the game. I really think you need as much as an HP buffer as you can get. You will be able to up DEX a bit via the enhancement trees.

unbongwah
09-02-2013, 02:21 PM
As for STR>DEX, yes I agree this is true for a VIP/Premium TR'ed toon. But he is not going to have Primal Scream or Titan's Grip etc.
While that's true, Ram's Might + Rage spell is +4 STR right of the bat; RM is one of the first spells rgrs get and Rage is readily available from potions or clickies (or friendly arcanes). So, almost right off the bat, he's be able to close the STR / DEX gap despite being an elven rgr.

Alfhild
09-02-2013, 02:56 PM
While that's true, Ram's Might + Rage spell is +4 STR right of the bat; RM is one of the first spells rgrs get and Rage is readily available from potions or clickies (or friendly arcanes). So, almost right off the bat, he's be able to close the STR / DEX gap despite being an elven rgr.
I agree completely. He will get +2 Damage (translated from +4 STR) from a Ram's + Rage combo.
But he also can invest in DEX very easily in his available AP trees and has already invested 1 in DEX in Elf under my build suggestion and can spend 2 AP to get another pt of DEX since I left 14 or 15pts unspent in what I suggested.
That leaves a difference of +1 damage should he spend 2 AP for another pt of DEX..
Also note my build included fighter levels.: he gets +2 dam from Weapon Specialization, and if he spends a few points in Kensai he can get another +1 damage for 2 AP.
So leaving out all AP expenditures, what I suggested (i.e. Fighter Wep Spec) equals the damage output of Rams+Rage but provides a little more to hit and also provides better Evasion.
Add a few AP expenditures in DEX or Kensai and he gets more damage and better Evasion.
Also realize that to hit may be something we scoff at with our mega-buffed stats, but it is a valid consideration for him. DEX provides better to hit because Bows are a DEX to hit weapon to begin with.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-02-2013, 03:10 PM
Well I currently have +5 dex ring and a +5 wis goggle (best I can for my level). I did raise dex the first two times because I didn't notice it said to raise con until I started looking it over to see if I missed anything.

Using Rams Might (since it gives damage as well), Holy Bow (lvl 8), I can hit 30~ base with 10~ damage with force and holy dmg combined so around 40~ per shot. So hitting like 80 dmg per multishot. Crits range from 90~100. The displacement is also really really good, tons of times I would of died without the displace proc. Also I really like the heal ^_^ healing 30ish~ every heal light wound cast. Shadow Walk is good for when I realize I cant take on the situation so I shadow walk to get out of it. Havent really used invisibility yet but the +20 hide check will be nice and lets me focus more on move silently (since I'm switching between them every level since I am raising UMD as well.)

My melee is lackluster tho, hitting about 20~ dmg and 30 ish with the elemental procs etc.

Alfhild
09-02-2013, 03:19 PM
Invis as buff for your sneak skills is going to be come a little more important when you get L11 Ranger. At that point you get Improved Precise Shot. Being able to sneak up unnoticed on a group of mobs and position yourself precisely to get as many as possible in a row will allow you to hit them all. As for raising DEX unstead of CON, no big deal. If you are going to TR this toon at 20, or 25 if you get MOTU, you will have enough game knowledge to make your own choices on your next life.

96th_Malice
09-03-2013, 09:00 PM
A dead ranger cannot kill anything. You are a 28pt build without access to most HP enhancing gear. My recommendation will allow you to get Epic Toughness at L21 or L24 should you get MOTU. Your highest level character is L9. This means that you will be doing higher level adventures for the first time without meta knowledge of the game. I really think you need as much as an HP buffer as you can get. You will be able to up DEX a bit via the enhancement trees.

Sorry gonna disagree on this post

Epic toughness on a ranged ranger is not what he / she should be picking. Combat archery and or Overwhelming Crit.should be your choices.

I'm not in anyway saying that HP isn't important .... Just not as important as being a ranger first.

Alfhild
09-03-2013, 09:19 PM
Sorry gonna disagree on this post

Epic toughness on a ranged ranger is not what he / she should be picking. Combat archery and or Overwhelming Crit.should be your choices.

I'm not in anyway saying that HP isn't important .... Just not as important as being a ranger first.
But you are saying that HP isn't important if you are advising him to get both CA and OC since he would need to start his character with STR and DEX at 17 and CON at 10, put all his skillups in DEX and STR and farm until he gets enough money or lucky enough to get a +2 STR and +2 DEX tome. Are you really suggesting a new undergeared player with very little meta knowledge of the game start with CON 10?

Btw I did say include CA in my build.

96th_Malice
09-04-2013, 12:14 PM
But you are saying that HP isn't important if you are advising him to get both CA and OC since he would need to start his character with STR and DEX at 17 and CON at 10, put all his skillups in DEX and STR and farm until he gets enough money or lucky enough to get a +2 STR and +2 DEX tome. Are you really suggesting a new undergeared player with very little meta knowledge of the game start with CON 10?

Btw I did say include CA in my build.

18 Elven archers ( and counting ) .... I like to think I've got things figured out pretty good by now

I would start con 12 .... Not 10 as agreed hp is important although it doesn't matter how many hp you have if the healer next to you is horrible.

Tomes are much easier to come by and are MUCH cheaper on the AH than before.

And for the record ..... We were all under geared at one time with zero knowledge of the game .... We all did fine. Water works hasn't become any more difficult ( I don't think )

Also ..... I'm pretty sure he will have at least 4 other able bodies running quests with him and will probably get into a guild more than willing to help him out with gear / plat / tomes etc.

To the OP .... If you have not built your toon yet, c'mon over to Khyber. If you can get past the drama it's actually a great server. I'll get your archer outfitted all the way to lvl 25

Last but not lrast ... to my CON addicted co part ..... The only thing more useless than a dead ranger, is a ranger with a lot of hit points that can't hit or kill anything

Talk soon

unbongwah
09-04-2013, 12:53 PM
I'm with 96th Malice on this. I usually build for DPS first, survivability second, though the split varies. I've posted both a STR build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423511-Toxophilite?p=5078456&viewfull=1#post5078456) focused almost solely on DPS and a DEX build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422853-U19-Elven-AA-help?p=5085746&viewfull=1#post5085746) which places more emphasis on survivability (Shadow DMs, Emp Heal, higher AC & Reflex); both start with CON 14, which IMHO is fine for an 28-pt elven rgr - more than that is overkill. If you feel you need a bit more HPs, squeeze in a Toughness feat (or two); or pick a less squishy race.

Alfhild
09-04-2013, 01:54 PM
18 Elven archers ( and counting ) .... I like to think I've got things figured out pretty good by now
I am sure you do. But you are not the subject of conversation.


I would start con 12 .... Not 10 as agreed hp is important although it doesn't matter how many hp you have if the healer next to you is horrible.

Ok then he would need +3 tomes in STR and DEX in order to get both OC and CA.


Tomes are much easier to come by and are MUCH cheaper on the AH than before.
I agree Tomes are easier to come by in loot since they introduced the upgrade tomes but they are still rare. As for the AH,actually at the moment there is a scarcity of tomes on the AH because everyone building Iconics is buying them and the price has gone up. Furthermore, a lot of looted Tomes end up on the Shard exchange which puts them further out of his reach, Furthermore if stat Tomes are so easily acquired as you suggest, why does the OP not have a single one at L9? His actual experience seems to contradict your statements.


And for the record ..... We were all under geared at one time with zero knowledge of the game .... We all did fine. Water works hasn't become any more difficult ( I don't think )

Umm, "We all did fine"? Can you really speak for everyone? If we all did fine back then, why were CON dumped Elves the brunt of many a joke back then?



Also ..... I'm pretty sure he will have at least 4 other able bodies running quests with him and will probably get into a guild more than willing to help him out with gear / plat / tomes etc.

I hope he does find himself in that situation but it is not a given and it is actually harder to get into a good guild as a 28pt F2Per than it was to get guilded back in the day when everyone was on a level playing field. And judging from the OPs posts, it seems he is doing a fair amount of soloing so perhaps it is better to listen to what the OP actually is saying than assuming his experience will be identical to our own.


Last but not lrast ... to my CON addicted co part ..... The only thing more useless than a dead ranger, is a ranger with a lot of hit points that can't hit or kill anything
Uhm, why are you assuming he cannot kill anything? Please provide actual raw numbers that indicate that he will be doing significantly lower damage at his level of play with the build I offer. All that has been suggested is the +2 damage from Ram's&Rage which actually would be compensated just by allocating the points in STR that a STR/DEX based build would require entirely to DEX. And by going DEX he also gets far better evasion.
The OP does not have access to Primal Scream, Titan's Grip, Profane +STR, etc. He can get OC at L21 or L24, but there is no guarantee he will own MOTU at that point rendering the whole issue of post-20 levelling a non issue. He is better off TRing at 20 or 21 and building a 34 pt toon who will have access to more Adventure Packs from farmed favour. At that point, all the advice you offered is perfectly valid. But now is not that point imho.

Alfhild
09-04-2013, 01:57 PM
My melee is lackluster tho, hitting about 20~ dmg and 30 ish with the elemental procs etc.
What melee weapons are you currently using?

Shade_z
09-04-2013, 02:40 PM
I just leveled a dex based elf ranger to 20. I think it's better than a str one for a new/casual player. I started with the following:
Str 8
Dex 20
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Char 8

I went with full DwS and till haste boost in tempest and the blunt and force arrows in AA. Apart from that I got grace and dragonmarks from the elf tree.

Highlights of the build are:
a) I have much better reflexes and some extra AC than my str based ranger.
b) Assuming +2 tomes, if I started with Str 16 and Dex 16 I would have needed 3 more points in dex to get to 21 for combat archery. So my str would be 20 at cap, adding buffs which I usually use... it will be around 24 (adding +4 from RM and rage). Comparing this to a dex based build where I have 27 dex I think I do more dmg than a str one.
c) Due to grace I also get +3% doublestrike, +3% doubleshot, +3% dodge, and bypass 3% dodge for 1 more ap and +4 hit and dmg with the weapons I use in the pre reqs.

96th_Malice
09-04-2013, 04:16 PM
I'm with 96th Malice on this. I usually build for DPS first, survivability second, though the split varies. I've posted both a STR build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423511-Toxophilite?p=5078456&viewfull=1#post5078456) focused almost solely on DPS and a DEX build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422853-U19-Elven-AA-help?p=5085746&viewfull=1#post5085746) which places more emphasis on survivability (Shadow DMs, Emp Heal, higher AC & Reflex); both start with CON 14, which IMHO is fine for an 28-pt elven rgr - more than that is overkill. If you feel you need a bit more HPs, squeeze in a Toughness feat (or two); or pick a less squishy race.

Agreed .... DEX or STR

Ive yet to see a CON AA build as of yet. What you lack in HPs, you make up everywhere else.

96th_Malice
09-04-2013, 04:28 PM
Sory not sure how tobreak up the post on the wifes iPad so I'll aswer within your text starting with " ++ "


I am sure you do. But you are not the subject of conversation.

++ Nope but the OP did ask for help ... I ( we ? ) provided that

Ok then he would need +3 tomes in STR and DEX in order to get both OC and CA.

++ Agreed

I agree Tomes are easier to come by in loot since they introduced the upgrade tomes but they are still rare. As for the AH,actually at the moment there is a scarcity of tomes on the AH because everyone building Iconics is buying them and the price has gone up. Furthermore, a lot of looted Tomes end up on the Shard exchange which puts them further out of his reach, Furthermore if stat Tomes are so easily acquired as you suggest, why does the OP not have a single one at L9? His actual experience seems to contradict your statements.

++ Luck of the draw ! Maybe run more quests is all I can say I guess ??

Umm, "We all did fine"? Can you really speak for everyone? If we all did fine back then, why were CON dumped Elves the brunt of many a joke back then?

++ Well maybe I cant speak for you BUT I am sure 95% of us did fine. Wait wait wait ,.... You werent a CON dumped Elf that everyone made fun of were you ?? hehe that explains the overkill on CON now !

I hope he does find himself in that situation but it is not a given and it is actually harder to get into a good guild as a 28pt F2Per than it was to get guilded back in the day when everyone was on a level playing field.

++ Agreed

And judging from the OPs posts, it seems he is doing a fair amount of soloing so perhaps it is better to listen to what the OP actually is saying than assuming his experience will be identical to our own.

++ Agreed as well

Uhm, why are you assuming he cannot kill anything? Please provide actual raw numbers that indicate that he will be doing significantly lower damage at his level of play with the build I offer. All that has been suggested is the +2 damage from Ram's&Rage which actually would be compensated just by allocating the points in STR that a STR/DEX based build would require entirely to DEX. And by going DEX he also gets far better evasion.

++ I dont need to provide raw data to know what works. CON build AAs dont ( not as well as the STR or DEX ones do anyways ) ...... not to mention at any time if his hit points get low he can click on multiple cure spells he has availalble ... there we go ... CON rebuffed

The OP does not have access to Primal Scream, Titan's Grip, Profane +STR, etc. He can get OC at L21 or L24, but there is no guarantee he will own MOTU at that point rendering the whole issue of post-20 levelling a non issue.

++ Agreed again !

He is better off TRing at 20 or 21 and building a 34 pt toon who will have access to more Adventure Packs from farmed favour. At that point, all the advice you offered is perfectly valid. But now is not that point imho.

++ Also agreed BUT still only starting with a 14 CON



I hope you are taking no offence over me not agreeing with you .. you have your opinion of what works and I have mine.

Mine are meant for killing before stuff gets close to me ...... not having it get within melee range and beat on my HP

96th_Malice
09-04-2013, 04:30 PM
Sorry not sure how to break up the post on the wifes iPad so I'll answer within your text starting with " ++ "


I am sure you do. But you are not the subject of conversation.

++ Nope but the OP did ask for help ... I ( we ? ) provided that

Ok then he would need +3 tomes in STR and DEX in order to get both OC and CA.

++ Agreed

I agree Tomes are easier to come by in loot since they introduced the upgrade tomes but they are still rare. As for the AH,actually at the moment there is a scarcity of tomes on the AH because everyone building Iconics is buying them and the price has gone up. Furthermore, a lot of looted Tomes end up on the Shard exchange which puts them further out of his reach, Furthermore if stat Tomes are so easily acquired as you suggest, why does the OP not have a single one at L9? His actual experience seems to contradict your statements.

++ Luck of the draw ! Maybe run more quests is all I can say I guess ??

Umm, "We all did fine"? Can you really speak for everyone? If we all did fine back then, why were CON dumped Elves the brunt of many a joke back then?

++ Well maybe I cant speak for you BUT I am sure 95% of us did fine. Wait wait wait ,.... You werent a CON dumped Elf that everyone made fun of were you ?? hehe that explains the overkill on CON now !

I hope he does find himself in that situation but it is not a given and it is actually harder to get into a good guild as a 28pt F2Per than it was to get guilded back in the day when everyone was on a level playing field.

++ Agreed

And judging from the OPs posts, it seems he is doing a fair amount of soloing so perhaps it is better to listen to what the OP actually is saying than assuming his experience will be identical to our own.

++ Agreed as well

Uhm, why are you assuming he cannot kill anything? Please provide actual raw numbers that indicate that he will be doing significantly lower damage at his level of play with the build I offer. All that has been suggested is the +2 damage from Ram's&Rage which actually would be compensated just by allocating the points in STR that a STR/DEX based build would require entirely to DEX. And by going DEX he also gets far better evasion.

++ I dont need to provide raw data to know what works. CON build AAs dont ( not as well as the STR or DEX ones do anyways ) ...... not to mention at any time if his hit points get low he can click on multiple cure spells he has availalble ... there we go ... CON rebuffed

The OP does not have access to Primal Scream, Titan's Grip, Profane +STR, etc. He can get OC at L21 or L24, but there is no guarantee he will own MOTU at that point rendering the whole issue of post-20 levelling a non issue.

++ Agreed again !

He is better off TRing at 20 or 21 and building a 34 pt toon who will have access to more Adventure Packs from farmed favour. At that point, all the advice you offered is perfectly valid. But now is not that point imho.

++ Also agreed BUT still only starting with a 14 CON



I hope you are taking no offence over me not agreeing with you .. you have your opinion of what works and I have mine.

My archers are meant for killing before stuff gets close to me ...... not having it get within melee range and beat on my HP

96th_Malice
09-04-2013, 04:34 PM
Sorry for the double post .... the second one was an edit to fix typos and such

not sure why they both posted

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-04-2013, 04:51 PM
What melee weapons are you currently using?

I was using some two rapiers. 1. Adamantine Tooth (I think that's what its called). 2. Gwylans Blade (secondary).

Lvl 6 tho so that might explain my **** dmg.

Also to clarify, and maybe clarify for myself. The higher tome drops are post U19 right? Because I NEVER got one pre U19 but got like 3, +1 tomes in a week after U19. The reason why I have no tomes on my lvl 9 is because I didn't play on it post-U19 because every enhancement setup I tested ended up with me being gimp, or a archer whose sole purpose was to paralyze monsters. +2 tomes may be within reach if I get lucky and get good enough gear from loot so I don't have to shop in the AH. But I have yet to see a +3 tome on the AH...correction, once and it was like 10x the price of a +2. Also there seems to be more upgrade from +1 to +2 tomes which requires a purchase od 100k +1 tome then a 200k +2 upgrade tome.

Also on the subject of guilds. I can never seem to find a active friendly guild. They are either too small to be of help outside lvl 5 (Since I outlevel them) or too large to get a genuine conversation with anyone. Considering I'm the only one of my friends who play DDO because I love it for its adventure theme (Everyone else quit or they only play it occasionally since 2 other friends are playing it at the same time), I usually solo or join random groups which I quickly depart from since they dissolve rather quickly.

So I would love to take your offer to play on Khyber, its kind of boring alone anyways :P, beside I like having a variety of characters to play on because I enjoy each of their unique aspects and creating new characters with different themes.

Also please don't argue (: ( ) I'm happy you guys are all offering me advice. I'll try out the other build on Khyber and continue the build on ghallanda. Testing things out never did me harm...(although some things I would never test out XD like drugs...or a Wizard Barbarian Cleric :) )




+

Alfhild
09-04-2013, 05:37 PM
++ Also agreed BUT still only starting with a 14 CON
And I agree that on his second life he does need as high a CON because he will have better gear or (if he gets the right Adventure Packs) far better gear as well as game knowledge. But if you are going to give him a helping hand on Kyber then I will leave the advice in your hands.

unbongwah
09-04-2013, 08:37 PM
I was using some two rapiers. 1. Adamantine Tooth (I think that's what its called). 2. Gwylans Blade (secondary).
Gwylan's Blade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Gwylan%27s_Blade) is short sword, not rapier. That matters if you took the Aerenal enhs.

If you're following one of my rgr builds, you could swap one of your ranged feats for Power Atk to help boost your melee DPS. But if you're following Alfhild's, your base STR is too low (10); Precision and Improved Crit are your only options.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-04-2013, 09:32 PM
Curious, but is it possible to make a viable build by focusing more on the deepwood archer aspect of ranger? It seems to have nice stats, and correct me if im wrong, with enough ranged sneak attack and maybe some extra sneak dice from other trees couldn't you dramatically increase the power of multi shot by sneak multi shotting? Since your basically dishing out two sneak attacks per shot if you multi shot, thus its basically double shotting during multi shot...or does sneak attack not proc on a multi?

If that works it sounds like if you don't have monk deepwood would be amazing dps wise during multi. OF course this all comes crashing down if multishot dosent proc sneak.

Alfhild
09-04-2013, 09:46 PM
Question about your weapons: do they both have red augment slots? if not you are using the old versions. If so, have you added a d3 elemental proc to them.
Check the AH for Tyrzza's Bane; it is ML10; make sure it is the new version with the red augment slot.

Edit just saw your new post:
Ok need to ask one very important thing: have you put 1 AP in improved Weapon Finesse in the DWS tree.

In regards to Sneak Attack, it does have certain limitations, see http://ddowiki.com/page/Sneak_Attack

P.S. You really need to call it Manyshot; multishot reveals too much of your gaming background ;)

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-04-2013, 10:00 PM
Question about your weapons: do they both have red augment slots? if not you are using the old versions. If so, have you added a d3 elemental proc to them.
Check the AH for Tyrzza's Bane; it is ML10; make sure it is the new version with the red augment slot.

Edit just saw your new post:
Ok need to ask one very important thing: have you put 1 AP in improved Weapon Finesse in the DWS tree.

In regards to Sneak Attack, it does have certain limitations, see http://ddowiki.com/page/Sneak_Attack

P.S. You really need to call it Manyshot; multishot reveals too much of your gaming background ;)

The only limitation I see is the sneak attack range limit being 25 meters, (the wiki is also probably outdated and the range is probably longer now). Also the melee weapons were the old versions, they were also lvl 6 which may explain their horrendous damage. I also have put 1 ap into improved weapon finesse, it made me wonder why I never got it before.

What does calling it multi-shot reveal about my gaming background? I'm not sure myself, ive played plenty of games but if they are influencing my terminology I don't know which game is influencing me. I'll try to remember manyshots now :P

Alfhild
09-04-2013, 10:05 PM
The only limitation I see is the sneak attack range limit being 25 meters, (the wiki is also probably outdated and the range is probably longer now). Also the melee weapons were the old versions, they were also lvl 6 which may explain their horrendous damage. I also have put 1 ap into improved weapon finesse, it made me wonder why I never got it before.

What does calling it multi-shot reveal about my gaming background? I'm not sure myself, ive played plenty of games but if they are influencing my terminology I don't know which game is influencing me. I'll try to remember manyshots now :P
When solo sneak attack is good for an opener or with a group, it tends to diminish in value as the game progresses unless you specifically build for it which basically means getting rogue levels.


Multishot is a wowism heh; was just kidding
btw what server is this toon on?

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-04-2013, 10:29 PM
When solo sneak attack is good for an opener or with a group, it tends to diminish in value as the game progresses unless you specifically build for it which basically means getting rogue levels.


Multishot is a wowism heh; was just kidding
btw what server is this toon on?

Ghallanda

Alfhild
09-04-2013, 10:47 PM
Ghallanda
No main toons on that server; do have one old fellow with 14K cash and 4 Vials of Pure Water you can try selling on the AH; your character's name?

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-04-2013, 10:57 PM
No main toons on that server; do have one old fellow with 14K cash and 4 Vials of Pure Water you can try selling on the AH; your character's name?

I'm slightly confused haha ^_^

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-04-2013, 10:58 PM
Still curious about the interaction between sneak attack and manyshots

Alfhild
09-04-2013, 11:05 PM
Still curious about the interaction between sneak attack and manyshots
Here is the thing, you will get some more sneak attack in the DWS tree. But you are not going to get the same opening damage as you could with a Manyshotted Arrow of Slaying which is going to do a base 1K damage without even factoring in your regular damage or critical hits.

As for my other post, I was saying I had a character on that server with 14K cash and some items you can sell on the AH. Will send it to you if you provide your character name.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-04-2013, 11:23 PM
Here is the thing, you will get some more sneak attack in the DWS tree. But you are not going to get the same opening damage as you could with a Manyshotted Arrow of Slaying which is going to do a base 1K damage without even factoring in your regular damage or critical hits.

As for my other post, I was saying I had a character on that server with 14K cash and some items you can sell on the AH. Will send it to you if you provide your character name.

Seruii, I have tried selling on the AH but im not sure what to sell. I sell items occasionally but the most ive ever fetched was like 3k for an item.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-04-2013, 11:24 PM
Here is the thing, you will get some more sneak attack in the DWS tree. But you are not going to get the same opening damage as you could with a Manyshotted Arrow of Slaying which is going to do a base 1K damage without even factoring in your regular damage or critical hits.

As for my other post, I was saying I had a character on that server with 14K cash and some items you can sell on the AH. Will send it to you if you provide your character name.

Also is Slaying a clickie with like a 30 second cooldown now? It wouldn't enhance your manyshot dmg to my knowledge.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-04-2013, 11:25 PM
*isin't

Alfhild
09-04-2013, 11:42 PM
Also is Slaying a clickie with like a 30 second cooldown now? It wouldn't enhance your manyshot dmg to my knowledge.
Arrow of Slaying is a shot with a 20 second cooldown.
When you click it you launch a ranged attack which does your regular base damage + 250.
But special shots like Slaying, Sniper, Dispel, Shatter, Inferno, Aimed, Leg and Head will be shot 4 times in a Manyshot volley.
With Manyshot active, if you click Arrow of Slaying you will do (X+250)x4 where X is your normal base damage
The (X+250) can also be criticalled and thus multiplied by Critical Damage Multipliers granted by both the individual weapon and special enhancements.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-05-2013, 12:04 AM
Arrow of Slaying is a shot with a 20 second cooldown.
When you click it you launch a ranged attack which does your regular base damage + 250.
But special shots like Slaying, Sniper, Dispel, Shatter, Inferno, Aimed, Leg and Head will be shot 4 times in a Manyshot volley.
With Manyshot active, if you click Arrow of Slaying you will do (X+250)x4 where X is your normal base damage
The (X+250) can also be criticalled and thus multiplied by Critical Damage Multipliers granted by both the individual weapon and special enhancements.

Oh wow never knew that. Arcane Archer Clickies just got a lot cooler haha.

Rhaphael
09-05-2013, 02:16 AM
The only limitation I see is the sneak attack range limit being 25 meters

The sneak attack range can now be extended with racial feats (Elf/Half-Elf), base Deepwood Stalker ranks, base Mechanic ranks, and maybe more. I only know that on my lvl 14 Elf Ranger 9 / Bard 4 / Rogue 1 it's a whole lot more than just 25m.

Nodoze
09-05-2013, 07:05 AM
Arrow of Slaying is a shot with a 20 second cooldown.
When you click it you launch a ranged attack which does your regular base damage + 250.
But special shots like Slaying, Sniper, Dispel, Shatter, Inferno, Aimed, Leg and Head will be shot 4 times in a Manyshot volley.
With Manyshot active, if you click Arrow of Slaying you will do (X+250)x4 where X is your normal base damage
The (X+250) can also be criticalled and thus multiplied by Critical Damage Multipliers granted by both the individual weapon and special enhancements.What would it look like if you take the FotW ED and Adrenalize an Arrow of Slaying while under Many Shot ?

Rhaphael
09-05-2013, 08:35 AM
what would it look like if you take the fotw ed and adrenalize an arrow of slaying while under many shot ?

kaboom!

Wipey
09-05-2013, 08:49 AM
What would it look like if you take the FotW ED and Adrenalize an Arrow of Slaying while under Many Shot ?
http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/692/kmlo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/kmlo.jpg/)
Those ~ 3.5k hits are resisted crits, regular crits are ~ 10k, 19-20 are 15 - 18k.
Kaboom !

Shade_z
09-05-2013, 09:02 AM
http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/692/kmlo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/kmlo.jpg/)
Those ~ 3.5k hits are resisted crits, regular crits are ~ 10k, 19-20 are 15 - 18k.
Kaboom !

Wow, that is amazing. Can you please break down the numbers for me...

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-05-2013, 05:29 PM
18 Elven archers ( and counting )
To the OP .... If you have not built your toon yet, c'mon over to Khyber. If you can get past the drama it's actually a great server. I'll get your archer outfitted all the way to lvl 25


Who would I add?

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-05-2013, 05:32 PM
http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/692/kmlo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/kmlo.jpg/)
Those ~ 3.5k hits are resisted crits, regular crits are ~ 10k, 19-20 are 15 - 18k.
Kaboom !

Sigh monks have it nice...

Shade_z
09-06-2013, 08:54 AM
Can someone explain how a bow can get numbers as high as 17k. As far as I know Adrenaline makes the dmg 5 times, thus 3.4k dmg without it. Then assuming x5 (x3 from bow + 1 multiplier from earth stance and 1 from OC) makes the base dmg about 680.

I can't seem to figure out how base dmg can go as high as 680. What am I missing here?

Wipey
09-06-2013, 09:11 AM
Wow, that is amazing. Can you please break down the numbers for me...
Sorry for late response. It's more "show off number " , but you can get it even higher with better gear, past lives, Shintao or Crusty set, Str buffs, Tenser's scroll, bard, deadly weapons, another 5 % from black robe buff and there are people apparently counting Demonweb dmg buff ( but that's unfair imo ).
There's helf damage boost, Archer's focus stack on helpless in that ss. Pinion with x 5 crits ( earth 3 stance + overwhelm crit feat ).
While Pin / Stuns / adrenaline from melees / Mass holds allow helpless, Archer focus stacks are impractical to use on trash.

Carpone
09-06-2013, 12:58 PM
Arcane Archer (41 APs)
Dispelling Shot (2 AP - filler)
Master of Imbuement (1 AP)
Dispelling Shot should not be taken as it removes the debuffs on a mob that your party has applied. Niac's and Eladar's dots are removed by Dispelling Shot.


Deepwood Sniper (11 APs)
Dmg Boost x3 (3 AP)

Tempest (9 APs)
Haste Boost x3 (3 AP)
It's 2 AP per tier for Damage Boost and Haste Boost.


Primarily ranged-focused; cycles thru Inferno Shot and Sniper Shot while MS is on cooldown. [...] I debated skipping Tempest entirely to put more pts into DWS (e.g., Aimed Shot, Stealthy x3 for +1d6 SA); but I wanted Haste Boost and +10% offhand procs. Shadow DMs provide Invisibility and Displacement.
Haste Boost only applies about half it's bonus to bows. I don't find it worth the AP cost for a bow-focused toon.

When Green Steel Displacement clickies are so easy to create, I don't see the benefit of dedicating a feat and several AP to the Dragonmark of Shadow.


Heck, for that matter I'm inclined to think halfling or HEs w/rog dilly make better rgrs than elves, just for the extra sneak atk dmg which stacks w/DWS. But I am nothing if not committed to my gimpy flavor builds. :cool:
Half-Elf now only provides 2d6 SA and requires too many AP to acquire. You're better off taking Monk levels for sneak attack. You want Monk levels for Earth Stance and 10k stars anyway, and you can easily net another 9% Dodge with little investment. There's nothing compelling about 20 Ranger compared to 14 Ranger/6 Monk for an AA build.

EDIT: Monk will also give you access to Deflect Arrows, which is fantastic avoidance for a ranged-based toon. EE Stormhorns archers hit for 60 before damage reduction.

unbongwah
09-06-2013, 01:51 PM
It's 2 AP per tier for Damage Boost and Haste Boost.
Are you sure? I know the wiki says 2 AP per tier, but I could've sworn when I checked in-game it had been reduced to 1 AP.

Haste Boost only applies about half it's bonus to bows. I don't find it worth the AP cost for a bow-focused toon.
Hence why I have both Dmg & Haste Boost on a build which uses ranged + melee.

When Green Steel Displacement clickies are so easy to create, I don't see the benefit of dedicating a feat and several AP to the Dragonmark of Shadow.

. . .

You want Monk levels for Earth Stance and 10k stars anyway, and you can easily net another 9% Dodge with little investment. There's nothing compelling about 20 Ranger compared to 14 Ranger/6 Monk for an AA build.
Perhaps you missed that this was meant as a 28-pt F2P build for first-timers who won't have any of that stuff to start?

Alfhild
09-06-2013, 03:49 PM
Dispelling Shot should not be taken as it removes the debuffs on a mob that your party has applied. Niac's and Eladar's dots are removed by Dispelling Shot.

Ack thanks for the heads-up: respec inc.



It's 2 AP per tier for Damage Boost and Haste Boost.
Haste Boost only applies about half it's bonus to bows. I don't find it worth the AP cost for a bow-focused toon.

I would consider it a decent investment if purchased from the Kensai tree in builds with fighter levels where you can get it for 1AP per tier.
Damage Boost for bosses, haste boost for trash killing.

Carpone
09-06-2013, 06:36 PM
Are you sure?
Yes.


Perhaps you missed that this was meant as a 28-pt F2P build for first-timers who won't have any of that stuff to start?
I would not recommend an AA for a first-timer. It's a gear, tome and twist intensive build demanding multiple past lives for optimal performance.

For a first time player, Warforged Shiradi wins hands down. No gear, tomes, twists or skill required.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-06-2013, 08:46 PM
Yes.


I would not recommend an AA for a first-timer. It's a gear, tome and twist intensive build demanding multiple past lives for optimal performance.

For a first time player, Warforged Shiradi wins hands down. No gear, tomes, twists or skill required.

First time player...IF you are VIP or shell out 995 ddo points for Warforged.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-06-2013, 08:52 PM
But yes I agree with you, AA might not of been the best first life choice for me haha, still I think the builds will pan out alright, but it still feels kind of annoying that melees and mages out damage me and I can only compete with cleric hirelings in the kill count on elite :( until I get to a certain level, which I have no idea when...

96th_Malice
09-07-2013, 08:52 AM
P.S. You really need to call it Manyshot; multishot reveals too much of your gaming background ;)

Haha ....

It took me almost a year to stop calling it multishot

96th_Malice
09-07-2013, 08:59 AM
http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/692/kmlo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/kmlo.jpg/)
Those ~ 3.5k hits are resisted crits, regular crits are ~ 10k, 19-20 are 15 - 18k.
Kaboom !

I'm not sure what amazes me more

The 17k arrow ..... OR the amount of hot bars on your screen

Hehe

My bard AA has 11 and I find that overwhelming

96th_Malice
09-07-2013, 09:04 AM
Ack thanks for the heads-up: respec inc.

Didn't know that either ... Thanks

Aliss7
09-07-2013, 08:32 PM
Dispelling Shot should not be taken as it removes the debuffs on a mob that your party has applied. Niac's and Eladar's dots are removed by Dispelling Shot.


Ugghhh. Really? Gonna have to respec sometime.

Archangel_666
09-07-2013, 08:47 PM
Dispelling Shot should not be taken as it removes the debuffs on a mob that your party has applied. Niac's and Eladar's dots are removed by Dispelling Shot.


Just a minor point, but I disagree with you on this one slightly.

By all means caution it's usage, but I wouldn't say never use it.

Just an example scenario to illustrate why.

Monk is running towards a mob, as they get close the mob casts Deathward.

Archer sees this and uses Dispelling Shot to strip Deathward.

Monk Quivering Palm's the mob.

For the sake of a single arrow and a small amount of SP the mob died much faster.


As I said, caution it's usage, by all means, but to say never use it? I disagree. :)

xberto
09-07-2013, 10:48 PM
Just a minor point, but I disagree with you on this one slightly.

By all means caution it's usage, but I wouldn't say never use it.

Just an example scenario to illustrate why.

Monk is running towards a mob, as they get close the mob casts Deathward.

Archer sees this and uses Dispelling Shot to strip Deathward.

Monk Quivering Palm's the mob.

For the sake of a single arrow and a small amount of SP the mob died much faster.


As I said, caution it's usage, by all means, but to say never use it? I disagree. :)

Its always about the Monk. Jeez I hate Monks... lol

Archangel_666
09-07-2013, 10:54 PM
Its always about the Monk. Jeez I hate Monks... lol

Fine. Replace Monk with Arcane or Divine, or hell an Assassin for that matter.

Deathward removed, caster one-shots it. (Not in EE's obviously, but there's more to the game than Epic Elites).

Lower levels, mob casts Displacement. Party members don't have True Seeing.

Dispelling Shot...Who needs True Seeing?


My point was, that situationally, Dispelling Shot can be useful.

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-08-2013, 03:38 PM
So should I start an archer in Khyber? I really don't know how t go about since I don't know what stats distribution you recommend for a str archer, malice, and how I could contact you in game.

96th_Malice
09-09-2013, 04:27 PM
So should I start an archer in Khyber? I really don't know how t go about since I don't know what stats distribution you recommend for a str archer, malice, and how I could contact you in game.

Heya

I'd be more than happy to help you out ... I am gone now until Thursday around noon but for sure look me up ... Cassiee or Katnyss is probably your best bet on getting a hold of me.

If I'm not online, shoot me an in game e-mail and I'll keep an eye out for you

Chai
09-13-2013, 01:01 PM
First lifer might be possible w/ both OC and CA on the same build. Needs +4 tomes tho, but if someones helping out, might be able to squeeze it all in. Is this missing anything?

12M - 6R - 2F
1 point blank shot
3 precision
6 cleave
9 great cleave
12 improved crit blunt
15 improved crit ranged
18 empower heal
-------------------------------
1m stunning fist
2m zen archery
6m 10k stars
---------------------------
1F power attack
2F GTWF
----------------------------
21 overwhelming crit
24 combat archery
27

str 16 + 4 tome + 10 item + 2 rams +2 insight +5 primal scream ------39-----3 level ups for OC
dex 16 + 4 tome + 10 item + 2 race -2 stance +2 cap ----------32-----1 level up for CA
con 12 + 4 tome + 3 insight + 10 item +3 stance +5 primal scream ----------37
int LOL
wis 16 + 3 monk + 10 item + 2 insight + 4 tome +2 AA ----37----3 level ups to get to 40
cha LOL

Tenebris-Niatellim
09-13-2013, 11:31 PM
First lifer might be possible w/ both OC and CA on the same build. Needs +4 tomes tho, but if someones helping out, might be able to squeeze it all in. Is this missing anything?

12M - 6R - 2F
1 point blank shot
3 precision
6 cleave
9 great cleave
12 improved crit blunt
15 improved crit ranged
18 empower heal
-------------------------------
1m stunning fist
2m zen archery
6m 10k stars
---------------------------
1F power attack
2F GTWF
----------------------------
21 overwhelming crit
24 combat archery
27

str 16 + 4 tome + 10 item + 2 rams +2 insight +5 primal scream ------39-----3 level ups for OC
dex 16 + 4 tome + 10 item + 2 race -2 stance +2 cap ----------32-----1 level up for CA
con 12 + 4 tome + 3 insight + 10 item +3 stance +5 primal scream ----------37
int LOL
wis 16 + 3 monk + 10 item + 2 insight + 4 tome +2 AA ----37----3 level ups to get to 40
cha LOL

Yes your forgetting I don't have monk XD. But otherwise that looks good according to my limited knowledge.

Gnarkh
09-23-2013, 02:48 AM
First lifer might be possible w/ both OC and CA on the same build. Needs +4 tomes tho, but if someones helping out, might be able to squeeze it all in. Is this missing anything?

12M - 6R - 2F
1 point blank shot
3 precision
6 cleave
9 great cleave
12 improved crit blunt
15 improved crit ranged
18 empower heal
-------------------------------
1m stunning fist
2m zen archery
6m 10k stars
---------------------------
1F power attack
2F GTWF
----------------------------
21 overwhelming crit
24 combat archery
27

str 16 + 4 tome + 10 item + 2 rams +2 insight +5 primal scream ------39-----3 level ups for OC
dex 16 + 4 tome + 10 item + 2 race -2 stance +2 cap ----------32-----1 level up for CA
con 12 + 4 tome + 3 insight + 10 item +3 stance +5 primal scream ----------37
int LOL
wis 16 + 3 monk + 10 item + 2 insight + 4 tome +2 AA ----37----3 level ups to get to 40
cha LOL

Three things I noticed right away:

(1) Empower Heal has a minimum requirement of 8 ranger levels (just learned that the hard way :) )

(2) It's missing Improved Precise Shot.

(3) Optionally, Precision can be taken as a monk feat, which might open up another feat (like grandmastering forms), as I'd argue the usefulness of Stunning Fist without a full focus on wisdom. Which might be a question of focus generally, as I'd not try to build for both melee and ranged anyways on a starter toon.


I know this might be just me, but I'm not agreeing on INT LOL. On a monkcher I'd invest into concentration (so I don't have to regen ki as often with melee), balance (kiting is no fun lying on the floor), heal (as without empower every lil bit helps) and possibly UMD. On a first life character I'd absolutely add a couple levels Jump as well. Which is a tight fit with a fully dumped INT and few ranger levels.

While Wisdom is nice for 10k (and well, stunning fist), I guess it's adding the least to an archer build and is the best spot to save some build points here on an early life.

Another thing I want to recommend is to check out the upcoming Mabar event. Which seems to provide a +6 and a +5 tome for some moderate amount of dragon bashing (which might even be fun opposed to asking guild mates for favors or farming cash :) ). So that opens up a lot of possibilities for an "advanced" archer character.


Regarding the whole Strength vs. Dexterity debate, I have a question of my own:

The description of bow strength reads: "You add your Strength modifier to bow damage."

If you make DEX a damage modifier by Ninja Spy or Grace...doesn't Bow Strength still apply as in those two stack?

I haven't found any verified info on this.

unbongwah
09-23-2013, 12:30 PM
(1) Empower Heal has a minimum requirement of 8 ranger levels (just learned that the hard way :) )

(2) It's missing Improved Precise Shot.
Well, at least now he knows what to trade Emp Heal for. ;)

(3) Optionally, Precision can be taken as a monk feat, which might open up another feat (like grandmastering forms), as I'd argue the usefulness of Stunning Fist without a full focus on wisdom. Which might be a question of focus generally, as I'd not try to build for both melee and ranged anyways on a starter toon.
Depends which stance(s) he plans to use. If this is purely an Earth-stance monk for +1 crit multiplier, then Master is good enough, since GM Earth only adds a bit of PRR & threat amp, IIRC; OTOH, if he wants to use Wind as well, GM Wind is a good idea for extra doublestrike.

While Wisdom is nice for 10k (and well, stunning fist), I guess it's adding the least to an archer build and is the best spot to save some build points here on an early life.
It looks like WIS 40 would add +50% to ranged DPS if I'm following this thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/351973) correctly. For a full-time ranged monkcher, that seems to provide the most bang-for-the-buck, stat-wise. Also hitting base WIS 23 like Chai's build does means he could take Vorpal Strikes as an epic feat if he wanted to boost melee a bit more.

Avaryl
11-19-2013, 06:36 AM
http://imageshack.us/scaled/medium/692/kmlo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/kmlo.jpg/)
Those ~ 3.5k hits are resisted crits, regular crits are ~ 10k, 19-20 are 15 - 18k.
Kaboom !

It it possible to post your build? I have been troubling myself for an archer build for quite some time now and i just cant figure how to set it up properly. so far (with 1 tr) its full dex/grace AA with a splash of dws.