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Maelodic
08-17-2013, 12:53 PM
Not entirely sure how to rebuild my little pure monk ninja. I'd love to make use of shortswords because weaponized monks are awesome, but I have a few questions and concerns about this.

I do not know how much AP you get total, but my enhancement plans look something like this, with the * ones being fillers/optional, but probably required to hit the caps.

Halfling Enhancements
Luck 2/DEX 1
Cunning 1/2
Guile 1/2/3
Companion 3
Skillful Thrower
*Acrobat 1

(22 Points spent in tree for Guile 3)

Ninja Enhancements
Ninja Training 2 - 2
Shadow Veil - 2
Poisoned Darts - 2
Diversion - 2
Ninja Master - 2
Poison Exploit - 2
*Faster Sneaking (3)
*Acrobatic (3)
Sneak Attack Training - 8
*Subtlety (3)
*Agility (3)
Flash Bang - 3
Sting of the Ninja - 2
Deadly Exploits - 2
No Mercy - 3
Crippling Strike - 2
Shadow Double - 2

46 Points spent

Henshin Enhancements
Mystic Training - 6
Animal Forms - 2
Ki Bolt - 2
Embrace the Void - 3

13 Points spent for Embrace the Void (more uses of Diversion, ima solo a lot, when when I don't, I'm duoing with a Rogue *shrug*)

Shintao Enhancements
Bastion of Purity - 0
(Free Heal AMP)

Feats
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved TWF
Greater TWF
Imp. Crit: Peircing
Ten Thousand Stars
Shuriken Expertise
Precision OR Toughness
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave

Epic Feats:
Improved Martial Arts
???
Blinding Speed (permahaste)

Not sure how to distribute stats. Overwhelming Critical would be great, as I already have cleave+great cleave and then I would get 4x crits with Celestias (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Celestia,_Brightest_Star_of_Day) because I can afford to be in earth stance all the time because of Blinding Speed. 23 STR on a halfling is hard to hit though without sacrificing Quivering Palm/EiN DC and a whole lot of other benefits like 10k, reflex save, shuri-expertise, etc.

But then again, I can go DEX based and be really good at shurikens, still have 3x crit damage, have tons of reflex save, and do a lot of damage all at the same time. DEX based would be tankier and dodgier and overall more spunky. DEX based also allows me to pump WIS for insta-kills. The only reason I would not go DEX based is because it doesn't apply to Celestia, and I'd be using one of these four sword swords:
Rebellion (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Rebellion)
Epic Garos Malice (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Garos%27_Malice)
Epic Sting (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Sting)
Star of Day (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Star_of_Day)

Though when it comes down to it, it'll probably end up being Rebellion+ Star of Day/Epic Sting or Dual Rebellions.

And I am going halfling. I love halflings, and it also gives me a really neat ranged option, tons more sneak attack, and the +2 crit threat from Ninja Spy does extremely well with the Skilled Thrower enhancement (Sadly, Master Thrower does not stack with this.) This is also why I planned on Embrace the Void because of all the sneak attack damage I get. Shadow Fade>Diversion>Kill everything with Sneak Attacks will be useful more than just twice a rest.

I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, but hopefully I can make an awesome character.
I may or may not twist in Whirling Wrists because throwing can be really good now. We'll find out if that's a good idea later I suppose.

rimble
08-18-2013, 12:54 PM
Yeah...I can't figure out how to make it work. Halfling + Ninja Spy grants lots of Sneak Attack...but then if you go with the 'idiom' of Ninja Spy (short swords/kamas) you lose the primary granter of Sneak Attacks--Stunning Fist. Sure, you'll have Radiance stuff, and Unbalancing Strike...but then your +30% Damage to Helpless isn't working...and of course you'll be without Quivering Palm and Touch of Death until they fix that up to work with weapons.

Ninja Spy is a giant self-contradictory mess to me.

I think I'd stick with the current best plan...Half-Elf where you can flip-flop between Rogue/Cleric Dilettante as you level/require, stay with Handwraps, and stay with Strength.

I don't anticipate Dexterity or Wisdom to ever apply to Unarmed damage, but if that ever happens then that would change things...or if ALL the Monk special attacks can be used with your short swords/kamas.

Carpone
08-18-2013, 01:10 PM
Touch of Death works with ki weapons now, but didn't see it in your enhancement buildout.

Note that Celestia does not do piercing damage, so it does not benefit from DEX for damage with Ninja Training II.

Maelodic
08-19-2013, 03:12 AM
Touch of Death works with ki weapons now, but didn't see it in your enhancement buildout.

Note that Celestia does not do piercing damage, so it does not benefit from DEX for damage with Ninja Training II.

That would be correct, but there's not really anything quite to the level of Celestia when it comes to short swords except maybe Rebellion, but that's still not quite right.

oliocean
08-19-2013, 06:35 AM
Note that Celestia does not do piercing damage, so it does not benefit from DEX for damage with Ninja Training II.

If you splash in 3 levels of rogue, then you can take the Finesse feature and spend some AP to get "Dagger in the Back".

I tested it on Lamania and it works fine with Kukri, Dagger, Kama and Short Sword.

Unfortunately it doesn't work with Handwraps :(
You will see "Dexterity to Damage" as part of the item description, but practically you won't get the bonus to damage.

Smarte111
08-19-2013, 04:10 PM
According to the patch notes Quivering Palm work's with monk inc short swords. So you are "only missing out on stunning fists, but you gain a ton of other short swordcentic enhancements, with loads of poison and + damage.

Nilzone
08-19-2013, 04:15 PM
Anyone know if the effect of Vorpal Strikes treating unarmed as slashing weapons works on the new spy enhancements? Part of the reason I loved this game was the infinite possibilities. Now it seems I either lr into a multi-class or try to scrounge up a bunch of new weapons and basically let my vast collection of sweet wraps collect dust on a mule until I decide I want to try a care-bear monk.

Appreciate any advice. Also, if someone can point me to a decent emerald build, I'd appreciate it.

Maelodic
08-19-2013, 07:30 PM
Anyone know if the effect of Vorpal Strikes treating unarmed as slashing weapons works on the new spy enhancements? Part of the reason I loved this game was the infinite possibilities. Now it seems I either lr into a multi-class or try to scrounge up a bunch of new weapons and basically let my vast collection of sweet wraps collect dust on a mule until I decide I want to try a care-bear monk.

Appreciate any advice. Also, if someone can point me to a decent emerald build, I'd appreciate it.

It doesn't work with Vorpal Strikes but it does work with Ivy Wraps.

Also a few classes do well with capstone. Ninja Monk is one of the few for crit threat range and especially if you're a shuriken tosser (Be a halfling)

lavarian
08-21-2013, 10:11 AM
I am a pure monk ninja spy halfling, and after the patch I have been left wanting KI. I am using a star of day and a drow short sword right now, and normally stay in wind stance. aside from going into fire stance any ideas on how to build KI faster to use the dark strike / finisher more?

rimble
08-21-2013, 11:43 AM
I am a pure monk ninja spy halfling, and after the patch I have been left wanting KI. I am using a star of day and a drow short sword right now, and normally stay in wind stance. aside from going into fire stance any ideas on how to build KI faster to use the dark strike / finisher more?

You could take Henshin up to Animal Forms and take Elegant Crane. You should probably Crit enough with your Short Swords to make it work.

ArcaneArcher52689
08-21-2013, 11:51 AM
I am a pure monk ninja spy halfling, and after the patch I have been left wanting KI. I am using a star of day and a drow short sword right now, and normally stay in wind stance. aside from going into fire stance any ideas on how to build KI faster to use the dark strike / finisher more?

Did you take the fire/force damage stance( Lighting the candle, iirc) ?

Because that stance applies a negative ki generation effect, which will really screw over a dark monk in windstance. I noticed it when I was trying out builds on lam

Daitengu
08-22-2013, 03:50 AM
I am using a star of day and a drow short sword right nowIs it viable? Do you do enough damage without Stunning Fist?