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EllisDee37
08-16-2013, 07:17 PM
Updated version of this build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/413503) for the enhancement pass.

This is a pure 20 DC caster cleric who (of course) can also raid heal. No tomes are required and no pay classes or races are involved; this is a solid choice for a new player who wants to play a cleric. It works fine as a healbot, plus it can offer much more once you get comfortable healing. It is also a capable soloer, though you'll need to use timing to get through traps. (Most traps have a safe way to get through them.)

The build calls for a feat respec after level 10, just before taking level 11. This costs 10,000 plat and 10,000 siberys dragonshard fragments, both of which should be affordable for a brand new player on a first life. Try to save your free feat respec for something else. At the same time as the feat respec the Divine Disciple tree gets reset, which will cost another few thousand plat.

The framework of this build works fine for an evo build instead of necro; simply change the Necro Focus feat(s) to Evo focus and put the Magister twist on Evo. Then you can take the Draconic twist for Evo as well. Then maybe tack on 3 sorc past lives for another +3 evo DC. heh.

I personally prefer jump over balance because I like the agility, especially when using blade barrier. You can add in balance starting at level 7 if you have a +2 int tome.

Any alignment will work fine. True Neutral is generally best, but if you want to use Forgotten Light you may not have enough UMD to wield it if you aren't good aligned.

The previous version of the output is available here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422552-Necro-Cleric-for-new-players?p=5583731&viewfull=1#post5583731).


Necro Cleric
Cleric 20
Neutral Good Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt . . 34pt . . 36pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . ---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .10. . . .10. . . .10. . . .4: WIS
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . .8: WIS
Constitution. . 14. . . .14. . . .14. . . .14. . . 12: WIS
Intelligence. . 14. . . .14. . . .14. . . .14. . . 16: WIS
Wisdom. . . . . 16. . . .18. . . .18. . . .18. . . 20: WIS
Charisma. . . . 12. . . .10. . . .12. . . .14. . . 24: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: WIS

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Jump. . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .11
UMD . . . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5


Feats

.1. . . . : Maximize Spell
.1 Human. : Empower Spell
.1 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.3. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
.6. . . . : Quicken Spell
.6 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
.9. . . . : Spell Focus: Necromancy OR Evocation
10 Swap. .: Spell Penetration replaces Empower Spell
12. . . . : Heighten Spell
15. . . . : Greater Spell Penetration
18. . . . : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy OR Evocation
21 Epic . : Epic Spell Penetration
24 Epic . : Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy OR Evocation
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Negative OR Force OR Light
27 Epic . : Embolden Spell OR Intensify Spell
28 Destiny: Mass Frog
29 Destiny: Fount of Life
30 Epic . : Master of: Light OR Alignment
30 Legend : Scion of: Shadowfell OR Celestia


Spells

Cure Light Wounds, Nightshield, Nimbus of Light, Remove Fear, Protection from Evil, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Moderate Wounds, Resist Energy, Owl's Wisdom, Seek Eternal Rest, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Mass Cure Light Wounds, Slay Living, Greater Command, True Seeing, Divine Punishment, Protection from Elements
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Blade Barrier, Heal, Banishment, Undeath to Death, Cometfall
Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Destruction, Mass Spell Resistance, Resurrection, Greater Restoration, Mass Protection from Elements
Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Death Ward, Symbol of Death, Holy Aura, Death Pact, <Any>
Energy Drain, Implosion, Mass Heal, True Resurrection, Summon Monster IX

Enhancements (80 AP)

Divine Disciple (42 AP)
Emissary: Darkness, Sacred Defense, Enervation, Necrotic Ray, Power Word: Stun, Transcend: Darkness
Spellpower: Universal III, Spell Critical: Universal, Spell Points III
Spell Penetration II, Spellpower: Universal III, Efficient Maximize III, Spell Critical: Universal
Spellpower: Universal III, Spell Critical: Universal, Wisdom
Necromancy DC, Spell Critical: Universal, Wisdom

Radiant Servant (33 AP)
Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst, Improved Empower Healing
Extra Turning III, Wand Mastery III
Improved Turning III, Mighty Turning, Efficient Empower Healing III
Wisdom
Endless Turning III, Wisdom
Positive Energy Aura

Human (5 AP)
Skills Boost, Wisdom
Improved Recovery

Leveling Guide
DD0 Emissary: Light; DD1 Nimbus of Light I, II, III
DD1 Spell Points I, II, III; DD1 Spellpower: Light I
DD0 Sacred Defense; DD1 Spellpower: Light II; DD3 Searing Light I, II
DD3 Searing Light III; DD1 Spellpower: Light III; DD2 Spellpower: Universal I, II
DD2 Spellpower: Universal III; DD3 Spellpower: Light I, II, III
DD4 Holy Smite I, II, III; DD0 Sun Bolt
Rad0 Healing Domain; Rad1 Extra Turning I, II, III
Rad1 Wand Mastery I; Rad2 Improved Turning I, II, III
Rad2 Mighty Turning; Rad0 Pacifism; Rad0 Positive Energy Burst
Rad1 Wand Mastery II, III; Rad2 Efficient Empower Healing I
Reset Divine Disciple
Divine Disciple: Emissary: Darkness, Sacred Defense
Spellpower: Universal III, Spell Points III
Spellpower: Universal III
Spellpower: Universal III
Radiant Servant
(none)
Efficient Empower Healing III
Wisdom
Endless Turning III, Wisdom
Rad5 Positive Energy Aura; DD3 Wisdom
DD2 Spell Penetration I, II
DD0 Enervation; DD0 Necrotic Ray; DD4 Necromancy DC
DD2 Efficient Maximize I, II
DD2 Efficient Maximize III; DD4 Wisdom
DD1 Spell Critical: Universal; DD2 Spell Critical: Universal
Hum0 Skills Boost; Hum1 Improved Recovery; Rad0 Improved Empower Healing
DD3 Spell Critical: Universal; DD4 Spell Critical: Universal
Hum0 Wisdom; DD0 Power Word: Stun; DD0 Transcend: Darkness


Destiny (24 AP)

Exalted Angel
Radiant Power III, Endless Faith III, Healing Power III, Wisdom
Wisdom
Wisdom
Wisdom
Leap of Faith, Wisdom
Divine Wrath, Wisdom

Twists of Fate (11 fate points)
Renewal (Tier 3 Sentinel)
School Specialist: Necromancy (Tier 2 Magister)


The basic concept for leveling is to rely on the Divine Disciple light SLAs (nimbus of light, searing light, holy smite) to carry you until you get the higher power spells like blade barrier, slay living, destruction and implosion. Both Maximize and Empower are taken at creation, and they are free when applied to SLAs.

After finishing level 10, but before taking 11, respec to the darkside, drop all the SLAs, and swap out Empower for Spell Penetration. Then take level 11 and go crazy with blade barrier, slay living, and (soon after) destruction. Note that this respec only resets the Divine Disciple tree, and then only re-spends a handful of points back into Divine Disciple, dumping the rest into Radiant Servant so you can get Positive Energy Aura when you take level 12.

My recommendation is to feature blade barrier while soloing and greater command while grouping. When I run this build I virtually never cast blade barrier in groups, and virtually never cast greater command while solo. I cast both of them very frequently the other way around, and the end result is that the build feels very different when soloiing and when in groups. This helps spice up the variety of playing, and I find this change between group types very nice.

Of course, no matter what type of group I'm in, slay living, destruction and implosion are always fun. heh.

This build benefits greatly from a single wizard past life, not the least of which is that the wizard will be able to farm up the gear and destiny twists much easier than a cleric can. Second life xp requirements aren't too bad at all; nowhere near a third life. So a single wizard life followed by this life to end as a Hero is my recommendation. However, this is by no means required. The build works on a first life just fine.

EllisDee37
08-16-2013, 07:17 PM
reserved

EllisDee37
08-16-2013, 07:18 PM
reserved for future use

EllisDee37
08-16-2013, 07:19 PM
Just reserving a few posts; not sure what I want to put here yet.

Varus
08-16-2013, 09:20 PM
Unless I miscounted it looks like you're only taking two enhancements from the racial tree. I wanted to try and find a workable version of this for the Morninglord, but what's the point when they've made it too expensive to get any of the goodies in the Morninglord racial tree? All you're left with is the missing feat and bonus skills you could have gotten from human.

Hopefully Turbine fixes the racial tree issue so I have a reason to consider a Morninglord again.

EllisDee37
08-16-2013, 11:07 PM
Yep, all the builds I've looked at so far skip the racial tree apart from just taking tier 1 amp, or (for the PM) human adaptability.

I've tried to justify spending AP in the human tree but it's just not worth it.

EDIT: Geez, I forgot to take recovery 1. Hmmm, maybe I can squeeze it in...

EDIT 2: I suppose dropping Incredible Healing to I (or completely and taking Intense Healing to III) is the easiest way to fit in the first human amp. I'm leaving amp off for now. Note that Divine Disciple has the absolute minimum AP spent to unlock the capstone, so you can't really pull any AP out of that tree.

SirValentine
08-17-2013, 10:01 AM
Like almost every build, gender doesn't matter for this one.


*Almost*?

OK, you've got me curious. Which builds DOES it matter for?

SirValentine
08-17-2013, 10:04 AM
If you end up with an odd Wisdom, you can squeeze out one more point by spending less in Radiant Servant, and putting 12 points in Protection. +1 Wisdom, 15 hit points, and Efficient Metamagic, plus some universal spellpower, seems plausible.

Soulfurnace
08-17-2013, 10:07 AM
*Almost*?

OK, you've got me curious. Which builds DOES it matter for?
Wizard Toasters. Don't ask.

EllisDee37
08-17-2013, 11:11 AM
*Almost*?

OK, you've got me curious. Which builds DOES it matter for?Human unarmed monks who want to use Great Cleave. Details here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/404021).


If you end up with an odd Wisdom, you can squeeze out one more point by spending less in Radiant Servant, and putting 12 points in Protection. +1 Wisdom, 15 hit points, and Efficient Metamagic, plus some universal spellpower, seems plausible.This would prevent taking aura, which to me a dealbreaker. (Without aura I see no advantage to taking cleric instead of FVS.)

Aura requires 30 points spent in tree, costs 2 AP (32 AP minimum)
DD capstone requires 40 points spent in tree, costs 1 AP (41 AP minimum)

That's 73 AP at the very least in the two trees, assuming you want aura and a capstone from a different cleric tree. (Divine Intervention is the protection capstone, for example.) I pared the Divine Disciple down to the absolute minimum 41 AP in this build, spent 3 in human for +1 wisdom, leaving me only 4 AP to play with.

I could conceivably spend those 4 on 15 HP from protection; if the "caster level" / "max caster level" enhancements don't buff aura I probably will.

SirValentine
08-17-2013, 12:05 PM
That's 73 AP at the very least in the two trees, assuming you want aura and a capstone from a different cleric tree.


You could take the capstone from the same tree as your Tier 5s. Then there's enough AP to go around. If you really want aura, is the RS capstone so bad? It has the same +2 Wisdom, but some healing thing instead of +2 on saves.

EllisDee37
08-17-2013, 01:05 PM
I prefer getting both a searing light SLA and adding enervate & necrotic ray to the spell book.

That would also leave me only 24 AP to spend in DD, for just 1 extra wisdom.

CE2JRH123
08-19-2013, 12:02 AM
Is the empower swap out a little early? Blade Barrier spell power seems pretty important until late heroic/early epic?

Otherwise, I'll definitely be playing this on my non-TR cleric. You rock, EllisDee.

EllisDee37
08-19-2013, 08:47 AM
Is the empower swap out a little early? It is, yes. In a perfect world you would wait until 14 when you're about to take 15. But then it's much more expensive and you probably should use the free respec.

As written there's a larger chance you can just pay for it @ 12 and save the free respec for down the road.

But yeah, next time I TR into this build I'll likely hold off on the swap until 14 going on 15. I have dragonshards coming out the wazoo...

CE2JRH123
08-19-2013, 01:06 PM
Also, would you be so kind as to put Update 19 in brackets after the title? When I was coming back I had a lot of trouble telling which builds were dated by how much, and was thinking that it would be really helpful if guides had update ## tags in their titles.


When I tried to do the Radiant Servant section, it looked like it cost 36 points, then when I hit accept, shrunk to 22 points, but then wouldn't let me accept. Seems buggy, going to try resetting the tree.

Eventually got it to work after a few resets by hitting "accept" after each purchased enhancement.

EllisDee37
08-19-2013, 02:01 PM
Also, would you be so kind as to put Update 19 in brackets after the title? When I was coming back I had a lot of trouble telling which builds were dated by how much, and was thinking that it would be really helpful if guides had update ## tags in their titles.I considered it and then didn't because barring massing changes to game mechanics (such as U19) I keep the builds updated as each update rolls along. If my old builds said "U11" in the title, for example, they would have looked like old abandoned builds despite me keeping up with them.

Undre
08-19-2013, 08:06 PM
First off, love playing your builds. However I am curious if it is still possible to take one level of wizard(possibly at 2) for the extra feature and the continued use of wands and scrolls by eating +2 tome to add back the lost skill point in healing? With the feat I was planning to keep empower or add extend.

EllisDee37
08-19-2013, 08:32 PM
First off, love playing your builds. However I am curious if it is still possible to take one level of wizard(possibly at 2) for the extra feature and the continued use of wands and scrolls by eating +2 tome to add back the lost skill point in healing? With the feat I was planning to keep empower or add extend.Yep, absolutely. It still works fine, it's just that now that toughness isn't so required I couldn't justify losing out on the +2 wisdom from the capstone. The capstone also grants you both necrotic ray as a spell and searing light as an sla, which is full of win. (Without the capstone you choose one or the other, but can't have both.)

It will work fine with the one wizard level at 2, and will likely be noticeably more fun to play from levels 2-10. The problem is the low strength; I'd cannibalize the skill points by dropping intelligence down to 10 and kicking strength back up to 14. (Assuming you wanted to play it the same way as the old build plays.)

Your early feats then become:

1: Maximize
1H: Power Attack (becomes Spell Penetration @ 12)
2W: Empower

The rest of the feats stay the same.


Regarding extend: I see no real value from it on a cleric. It doesn't extend aura (confirmed personally in testing it on lama 2 days ago) so really it would just be for prayer and recitation.

EllisDee37
08-19-2013, 09:34 PM
When I tried to do the Radiant Servant section, it looked like it cost 36 points, then when I hit accept, shrunk to 22 points, but then wouldn't let me accept. Seems buggy, going to try resetting the tree.

Eventually got it to work after a few resets by hitting "accept" after each purchased enhancement.Yep, I had the same bug while testing one of my builds on lama over the weekend. It could very well have been the cleric, but I kind of remember it being the ranger. Ah well, it wasn't a showstopper, just annoying, so no biggee in the grand scheme.

Varus
08-19-2013, 10:44 PM
Yep, I had the same bug while testing one of my builds on lama over the weekend. It could very well have been the cleric, but I kind of remember it being the ranger. Ah well, it wasn't a showstopper, just annoying, so no biggee in the grand scheme.

Same bug. Having to hunt down the holes in the tree where I had points is annoying as he'll. I didn't catch it the first time and was wondering where my searing light SLA went. Cost me some plat.

eachna_gislin
08-24-2013, 11:38 AM
Human unarmed monks who want to use Great Cleave. Details here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/404021).

This would prevent taking aura, which to me a dealbreaker. (Without aura I see no advantage to taking cleric instead of FVS.)

Aura requires 30 points spent in tree, costs 2 AP (32 AP minimum)
DD capstone requires 40 points spent in tree, costs 1 AP (41 AP minimum)
+

I'm not asking in a snarky way, but have you tried playing a Divine Disciple cleric without the aura (just the burst)? I have...it plays quite nicely. It took me 3 days to stop hitting the 'aura' hotkey. Now I don't miss it.

What (still) makes cleric "better" than FvS for this type of build is the number of spell slots. Even if FvS had the prestige, they couldn't afford the spell slots for the full lines of light and necromantic spells.

I've been playing with Sunbeam, Sunbolt, Sunburst, Enervation, Necrotic Ray, and Word of Balance. All FANTASTIC spells that go in the spell book, which means they replace other spells. I'm also squeezing in (at epic levels) a full range of long-casting buffs. .

I can still do full raid buffs/heals, both single tanks and massed group heals/cures. I don't really "miss" the aura. Yes, it eats into my spellpoints for healing to give it up, but frankly on a 1st life cleric with minimal gear aura doesn't get good for healing till level 17-18 or so, and I take two mental toughnesses on my first life runs (I'm using clerics to unlock favored soul on each server so my 1st life clerics are truly poor and gearless). I need that much mental toughness to get through Shroud healing _with or without_ the aura.

Burst really does work 'just fine'.

EllisDee37
08-24-2013, 02:18 PM
I'm not asking in a snarky way, but have you tried playing a Divine Disciple cleric without the aura (just the burst)? I have...it plays quite nicely.You mean drop aura for +1 DC?

SirValentine
08-24-2013, 02:37 PM
You mean drop aura for +1 DC?

And +2 to saves and 5 more spells in your spell book and another SLA and +2 to your caster level & max caster level. But, yeah, for +1 DC, too.

EllisDee37
08-24-2013, 02:49 PM
And +2 to saves and 5 more spells in your spell book and another SLA and +2 to your caster level & max caster level. But, yeah, for +1 DC, too.Where do the 5 more spells come from? What other SLA? And you mean caster level / max caster level for healing spells only?

mna
08-24-2013, 02:57 PM
Where do the 5 more spells come from? What other SLA? And you mean caster level / max caster level for healing spells only?

I think they mean the T5 and capstone DD enhancements... according to the PDF I have here, Divine Empowerment is +1 CL, and +1 max CL light/negative/fire; Transcendence is +2wis, +1 CL, +1 max CL light/negative/fire, a bunch of spells to your spellbook, and a bit of other stuff...


Or are you saying that it's not actually feasible to get to play with those? I wouldn't know...

EllisDee37
08-24-2013, 03:21 PM
I think they mean the T5 and capstone DD enhancements... according to the PDF I have here, Divine Empowerment is +1 CL, and +1 max CL light/negative/fire; Transcendence is +2wis, +1 CL, +1 max CL light/negative/fire, a bunch of spells to your spellbook, and a bit of other stuff...


Or are you saying that it's not actually feasible to get to play with those? I wouldn't know...Ah, yeah, I missed the Divine Empowerment. So +1 DC and +1 caster level to the slas. In his zeal to be dismissive he seems to have forgotten that this build takes the capstone too.

SirValentine, by all means post your own build. You clearly dislike this one.

SirValentine
08-25-2013, 06:13 AM
Ah, yeah, I missed the Divine Empowerment. So +1 DC and +1 caster level to the slas.


And the additional SLA itself, if you care, yes.



he seems to have forgotten that this build takes the capstone too.


Yup, missed that.



In his zeal to be dismissive...
<snip>
You clearly dislike this one.


Not at all. I was trying to take into account all the considerations of one of the sub-topics under discussion, namely whether to take Tier 5s from DD or RS.



SirValentine, by all means post your own build.


On live, my Cleric is not currently on a Cleric life.

I don't remember every exact ability I took, but on Lama when I TRed to a Cleric, my tree breakdown was something like:

DD 41 points (lots of stuff; Dark side, skipped SLAs, +2 Necro DC, Spell Pen, +2 Wis capstone, etc.)
RS 24 points (Positive Energy Burst, +2 Wis, Endless Turning, Wand Mastery, etc.)
Prot 12 points (Toughness, Efficient Metamagic, +1 Wis)
Human 3 points (Skill Boost & +1 Wis)

That's not a complete detailed build, but that's what I remember.

SirValentine
08-25-2013, 06:17 AM
Where do the 5 more spells come from?


Whoops, missed you already having the capstone.



What other SLA?


Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds



And you mean caster level / max caster level for healing spells only?


No, Light, Negative & Fire. And only +1, not the +2 I said earlier, because of course you already have the capstone.

EllisDee37
08-25-2013, 02:48 PM
After further testing I'm going to go ahead and drop the lightside SLAs entirely at level 20. Mainly because they kind of suck compared to necrotic ray & sunbeam for single-target rays. They are so good they make even avenging light suck.

Necrotic ray & sunbeam with no metas at all do twice the damage of avenging light and quadruple the damage of the lightside slas, and since they don't need metas they only cost 10 & 15 SP, both well within the echoes range of 30.

This means I can switch to darkside for another +1 necro DC (losing +1 evo DC) and can save 3 AP for other stuff in DD. My first thought is efficient meta, but I'll take a closer look.


No, Light, Negative & Fire.My experience makes me skeptical that adding caster levels does anything at all for damage spells. Adding MCL is highly bugged and has no effect for most damage spells in the game (frost lance & scorching ray never get a 4th ray, for example) and adding to CL is irrelevant without a functional increase to MCL.

+1 spell pen to slay living & destruction is nice, but not particularly needed. As written this build hits 39 spell pen anway, which is the magic number. (Won't work on EE drow, but the DC on a build like this won't work for EE anyway.)

I also never saw where that +2 saves came from, unless you meant the second DD core enhancement. Which again, I take too.

EllisDee37
08-25-2013, 03:03 PM
RS 24 points (Positive Energy Burst, +2 Wis, Endless Turning, Wand Mastery, etc.)This hurts, even beyond sacrificing aura. Your turns regen slower (due to only being able to take endless turning to II instead of III) and you lose 25 spell power & 1% crits for your heals. Admittedly, healing crits are way less relevant without aura, but it's still a loss of 25 positive spell power.

You also lose on MCL for burst & aura, which did seem to increase aura when testing on lama. However, this is much less relevant without aura and I only take it to II (as opposed to III) anyway, so meh.

Given the overall breakdown:

DD: I lose -1 necro DC
RS: You lose aura, 25 spell power, +1% healing crits, slower turn regen, lower CL/MCL on burst
Prot: You gain +15 HP, -2 empower heal cost, +1 wisdom

I'd rather have aura than +1 wisdom, +15 HP and -2 emp heal cost. That extra necro DC is pretty sweet, though, but still I think I'd rather have aura.

EDIT: Is Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds any good at all? How much damage does it do? My impression is that all inflict spells are worthless. I'm dropping ALL slas from my build @ 20 due to them sucking in epics.

richieelias27
08-25-2013, 07:53 PM
Same bug. Having to hunt down the holes in the tree where I had points is annoying as he'll. I didn't catch it the first time and was wondering where my searing light SLA went. Cost me some plat.

This is a common bug when picking points. For some reason the tree's forget that you put in those last few points you spent.

This works every time:

Spend your points
hit accept
hit cancel
reopen enhancement tree
put the points that it took away back to where they need to be
hit accept
Done. All of your points should be working now.

I think what is happening is that it is having trouble tracking things across multiple tree's. Best thing to do is spend points in one tree - hit accept. Spend points in the next tree, hit accept. Etc.

varadi
09-01-2013, 07:07 AM
Since this is for new players...some questions.. :)

Why so much Int for the 28pt-built, just for the skillpoints? After Update 19 the Int Multiplier also adds up to spellpower, I think?
Why don´t you put the attribute points into Const or Str?
With my present Cleric I never had much skillpoints to spend, so I wouldn´t miss them. :)

What exactly are the 11 ranks in UMD good for? Sry, I never used UMD.

Thanks.

Kanuk
09-01-2013, 07:32 AM
Since this is for new players...some questions.. :)

Why so much Int for the 28pt-built, just for the skillpoints? After Update 19 the Int Multiplier also adds up to spellpower, I think?
Why don´t you put the attribute points into Const or Str?
With my present Cleric I never had much skillpoints to spend, so I wouldn´t miss them. :)

What exactly are the 11 ranks in UMD good for? Sry, I never used UMD.

Thanks.

As of update 19, heal and spellcraft skills are valuable to clerics. Heal skill boots your cure/heal spells and spellcraft boost you force/fire spells (one of them also boots light spells i think). I agree that on a 28 pts build i would probably lower int to 12 and drop jump skill, but that is a personal choice.
Str is not needed on this kind of caster build, starting at 10 with eventual tomes and items is enough to carry gear. He could boost Con to 16, but would need to drop say Int to 12 and Cha to 10, or just drop Int to 10. Personal choice again here, as long as Con is min 14 and Int 10, any choice is valid in my opinion.
UMD is really good for any character, if only for scrolls: fire/ice shield, invisibility, blur/displacement, greater heroism, teleport.

EllisDee37
09-01-2013, 05:03 PM
Yep, you can drop int some if you like.

Jump is invaluable for blade barrier kiting while soloing, and also is just all-around useful to have for a variety of reasons. Several quests have a jump check of 30 to avoid annoying parts. (Undermine, Schemes of the Enemy, etc...)

I mainly use UMD to use greater heroism and teleport scrolls. Fear can be annoying, and any alt without teleport makes me a sad panda.

Try to keep full ranks on heal and spellcraft, though. Heal buffs your positive and negative damage, and spellcraft buffs your light and force damage. After playing this build for real for a couple weeks (as opposed to just testing it on lama) I've settled on Necrotic Ray and Sun Bolt as my two main ray spells, dropping the SLAs (including Avenging Light from Exalted Angel) entirely. I need to update the enhancements to reflect this.

Rinani
09-05-2013, 01:43 PM
Any particular reason for Quicken at 6 instead of 9?
I am about to do my first TR from a wizard, and was thinking of following this, but was wondering about Quicken compared to grabbing Arcane Initiate at 6 and Quicken at 9.

EllisDee37
09-05-2013, 05:48 PM
Good question; the original incarnation of this build took quicken later and arcane initiate earlier.

I found that I didn't use DC spells in any meaningful way until I got access to level 5 spells. (Slay Living, Greater Command) Clerics get level 5 spells at 9, so 9 is s a natural fit for the DC-boosting past life feat.

Quicken is a super nice to have for burst, which you can get as early as 6. (This build takes burst at 7, but same idea.)

EDIT: I should probably explain why this build doesn't take burst until 7 when 6 seems like a much better way to go.

By level 6 you can have a maximum of 24 AP spent. There is a very high priority on getting both nimbus of light and searing light SLAs as soon as possible. Maxing both costs 13 AP, leaving 11 points available by level 6. This is just enough to squeeze burst in at the end of 6, but I decided to add in the second Divine Disciple core (+2 to all saves) as early as possible without delaying the SLAs.

I could be convinced to move +2 saves to level 7 and bump burst up to the end of level 6.

When I plan out these builds I imagine running content on elite for bravery streak and choose what seems like the best for the level based on that. At level 6 an elite streaker is likely running level 4 elites. Irestone, proof is in the poison, freshen the air, the last two waterworks, maybe even Sharn. I asked myself which I'd rather have for those quests: burst or +2 to all saves. I decided +2 saves.

EDIT 2: I'm now thinking maybe take both +2 saves AND burst by level 6 and pushing either spell points III or universal spell power III back to level 7. I know why I frontloaded spell power and spell points, but maybe getting burst a level earlier might be worth it. Then again, when I think of those level 4 elite quests I'm not sure how useful burst would actually be compared to just using cure spells. Keep in mind that turns will NOT regenerate until much later.

DemonMage
09-12-2013, 01:48 PM
I even went so far as to push for Holy Smite SLA before bothering to start dipping into Radiant Servant at all. Having an AE SLA is just too important for leveling. Nimbus/Searing are nice, but being single target is a sizable limitation. It's maybe a little less important for a new player but for 3 more SP you can do damage to an infinite amount of mobs, and most fights in DDO are 5+ mobs early on, way more than that if you're not new and happy to risk dungeon alert.

EllisDee37
09-12-2013, 02:23 PM
I've never bothered with holy smite in any meaningful way, same with flame strike and cometfall. My primary form of aoe damage while leveling is blade barrier.

How good is the holy smite sla? How much damage does it do to each target at, say, level 9?

DemonMage
09-12-2013, 02:26 PM
At level 6 it's doing about 80ish damage non crit.

SirValentine
09-12-2013, 08:35 PM
I've never bothered with holy smite in any meaningful way, same with flame strike and cometfall. My primary form of aoe damage while leveling is blade barrier.


I don't much use Holy Smite AFTER I have Blade Barrier...but you get it earlier. It's useful in that time frame of levelling.

Cometfall, though...I only nuke with it if I have lots of SP to spare, but I use it much more than that, for CC. Heighten on, Maximize & Empower off. Great for those enemies Clerics that cast Death Ward and have high Will & Fort saves, but crappy Reflex. Or against things with too much Spell Resistance, which covers even more mobs on a first-lifer than someone with Wiz/FvS PLs to back them up.

EllisDee37
09-15-2013, 02:35 PM
I learned the other day that Turn Undead as an actual ability is surprisingly good. After researching it a bit it seemed like my cleric should be able to effectively turn, so last night I tried it while healing an EH FOT run. (Tablecloth dropped but I lost the roll. *pout*)

While standing in the center of FOT healing the group and tank, you will occasionally get 1-3 undead aggroed on you with nobody to help. Typically I just burst 3 times to kill them, which costs 3 turns. Having recently read up on turn undead I decided to try turning them instead, and they reliably got turned. Not killed, but turned.

So now I'm definitely taking Mighty Turning from radiant servant for 2 AP, which says it kills anything you successfully turn. There are now several changes to the build I need to edit in; here's the list:

1) Switch to darkside at level 20, spend no APs on any DD slas.
2) Drop Avenging Light, take EA Wisdom to VI instead of V
3) Take Mighty Turning in the RS tree

These obviously aren't major changes, so I'm not in a huge hurry to get the build updated immediately.

Henshaw135
09-16-2013, 06:04 AM
First of all, thank you very much for the build. I followed it with small changes to feats on my Morninglord, and am going to LR +20 my level 11 Paladin to the build, after I get him off CD from a LR +3 (3 classes, so can't just LR +20... :-( ).

I spent an hour on Lamannia testing it on a fresh level 20 Cleric without any gear, and tried different combinations of Intense Healing and Incredible Healing. Lamannia was really the only possibility for me for all the resetting, as my latest resets were over 40k pp, which on live just isn't viable at all (I have already spent over 200k pp on tweaking my characters back and forth).

What confused me the most was, that I didn't actually get any differences with or without Incredible Healing on anything whatsoever. Neither of the Enhancements affected my healing spells in any way either, but for Aura and Burst the important bit seemed to be Intense Healing, and adding Incredible Healing did nothing whatsoever with any of the spells I tested them with.

Now I know my test samples were small, but Aura heals a set amount on every tick, and for Burst I did samples of 20 with all setups. Spells I used in testing were Heal and Cure Serious Wounds, both without any active Metas.

Have I mis-understood something, and just don't see the big picture (and why Incredible Healing is in the build), or did I stumble upon a bug? Do they work the same way on live at the moment?

If Incredible Healing really doesn't add anything to the build (or is bugged), I am considering on putting 5 points into Warpriest (for DR 5/-), as it seems to have quite good bang for the buck for the investment on a quick glance, especially while I level up.

Sorry if it's something obvious I just have missed, but I wanted to make sure. :-)


Thank you again for the time you have used to tweak the build. :-)

EllisDee37
09-16-2013, 06:37 PM
I had a similar issue in my lammania testing before U19 went live. For me, aura was unaffected by either intense/incredible healing until both were rank 3, and then the effect was noticeable.

From this I concluded that the enhancements were bugged, they should do something at all ranks, and that I should try to fit them in if possible.

But yeah, you make a compelling case. Feel free to drop them. I only included them for the potential to help aura; I don't care a whit about max caster level on cure spells because the only cures I cast are mass cures and they have a super high max caster level anyway.

Ravand
10-16-2013, 05:28 PM
EllisDee, thank you again for another user-friendly build (I built a PaleTrapper using your pre-U19 template, and only switched him after the enhancement pass to a pure PM). My FvS wasn't as fun after U19, but I still want a healer for guild runs, and this looks it will fit the bill.

I look forward to the template being updated per your 9/15/13 post. I tried to copy it, and ended up with 41 points in DD and 39 points in RS.

Thanks again; your efforts are appreciated!

-Ravand, Thelanis

jonqrandom
10-16-2013, 07:58 PM
regarding holy smite SLA: if you have the DCs and spell pen, mass blinding evil mobs for 7SP is a beautiful thing - and hey, it even tickles their HP bars too ;)

maxed and emped, the damage is usually around the low 200s for me, but the big deal is the blinding. you get mobs wandering around, swiping randomly, casting spells at thin air, and even when they find a target to attack they have a 50% miss chance. on top of that, everyone who has sneak damage in your party is now doing it :) less incoming damage + things dead faster = less healing needed.


regarding race: if you're desperate for more spell pen, elf's arcanum now works with any class and gives you +3 spell pen and +100SP, buuuuut at the cost of a feat, -2 CON, 11AP (so 8 more in racial than human), a loss of a point of WIS, and no saves boost. if you have half-elf though, there's no CON penalty and you can get arcanum and the human versatility/adaptability enhancements, so it comes down to chopping a feat and scraping 8AP from elsewhere in the build. i'm not suggesting this is a better idea, just a possibility that might be useful to some people. on a sun elf pure cleric, i was occasionally seeing SR on elite vale rakshasas until i maxed elf and cleric spell pen, which is why i mention this.

EllisDee37
10-17-2013, 06:03 AM
I look forward to the template being updated per your 9/15/13 post. I tried to copy it, and ended up with 41 points in DD and 39 points in RS.Still on my to-do list, but currently taking a back seat to the newest build I'm working on, an epic challenge farmer.


regarding race: if you're desperate for more spell pen, elf's arcanum now works with any class and gives you +3 spell pen and +100SP, buuuuut at the cost of a feat, -2 CON, 11AP (so 8 more in racial than human), a loss of a point of WIS, and no saves boost. if you have half-elf though, there's no CON penalty and you can get arcanum and the human versatility/adaptability enhancements, so it comes down to chopping a feat and scraping 8AP from elsewhere in the build. i'm not suggesting this is a better idea, just a possibility that might be useful to some people. on a sun elf pure cleric, i was occasionally seeing SR on elite vale rakshasas until i maxed elf and cleric spell pen, which is why i mention this.Agreed, any race should work but the elven arcanum line is a nice perk for elves and helves. Helves in particular would work well for this for the reasons you outline.



I kind of wish I didn't name this thread "necro" cleric but instead "DC cleric" because there's nothing particularly necro-specific about the build. Or, rather, anything necro specific like the feats, enhancements and the magister twist can be easily swapped to evocation.

Ravand
10-17-2013, 03:12 PM
EllisDee, based on your comments in the thread, here is my stab at recreating your changes. I look forward to seeing how close (or far!) I am from the mark.

Divine Disciple (41 AP)
Core: Emissary of Light
Core: Sacred Defense
Core: Sun Bolt
Core: Sunbeam
Core: Sunburst
Core: Transcendence
Tier 1: Spell Power: Universal III
Tier 1: Spell Critical: Universal
Tier 1: Spell Points III
Tier 1: Divine Vitality III
Tier 2: Spell Penetration III
Tier 2: Spell Power: Universal III
Tier 2: Spell Critical: Universal
Tier 3: Spell Power: Universal III
Tier 3: Spell Critical: Universal
Tier 3: Wisdom
Tier 4: Necro DC
Tier 4: Spell Critical: Universal
Tier 4: Wisdom

(I swapped Tier 3: Searing Light III for Tier 1: Divine Vitality III to keep my 41 points in the tree)

Radiant Servant (36 AP)
Core: Healing Domain
Core: Pacifism
Core: Positive Energy Burst
Core: Improved Empower Healing
Core: Positive Energy Shield
Tier 1: Extra Turning III
Tier 1: Wand Mastery III
Tier 1: Altruism III
Tier 2: Improved Turning III
Tier 2: Mighty Turning
Tier 3: Wisdom
Tier 3: Intense Healing I
Tier 4: Endless Turning III
Tier 4: Wisdom
Tier 5: Positive Energy Aura

(I added Core: Positive Energy Shield and Tier 2: Mighty Turning. I reduced Tier 3: Intense Healing II to Tier 3: Intense Healing I. I removed Tier 4: Incredible Healing II

EllisDee37
10-17-2013, 05:04 PM
Here's what my actual cleric on live has compared to your list:

Divine Disciple (41 AP)
Efficient Maximize III instead of Spell Pen III
Efficient Quicken I
Divine Vitality I instead of III (this is a throwaway point just to reach 40)

Radiant Servant (34 AP)
No positive energy shield core (stops at improved empower healing)
Wand Mastery I instead of III (I personally seem to never use scrolls)
Efficient Empower Healing III (not sure I love this choice)
No Intense Healing

Human (5 AP)
Add Improved Recovery


Now that I'm looking more closely at it, I think I might prefer a variation to this:

- DD: Drop efficient empower III
- DD: Wand & Scroll from I to III
- DD: Divine Cleansing I
- RS: Efficient Quicken from I to II

Not entirely sure, though. What I have atm is good enough for government work, heh.

SirValentine
10-17-2013, 07:00 PM
I had a similar issue in my lammania testing before U19 went live. For me, aura was unaffected by either intense/incredible healing until both were rank 3, and then the effect was noticeable.

From this I concluded that the enhancements were bugged, they should do something at all ranks


That doesn't necessarily mean it's bugged. Aura's base amount is caster level divided by 3. I haven't looked at aura numbers in detail since the enhancement pass, but if it still works like old aura, that amount is rounded down to a whole number BEFORE it starts getting multiplied by Spellpower or Healing Amp. So if you were already at a multiple of 3, adding 1 or 2 caster levels WOULD do nothing.

Mind you, this is Turbine, so it may still be bugged. :-)

EllisDee37
10-18-2013, 05:29 AM
That doesn't necessarily mean it's bugged. Aura's base amount is caster level divided by 3. I haven't looked at aura numbers in detail since the enhancement pass, but if it still works like old aura, that amount is rounded down to a whole number BEFORE it starts getting multiplied by Spellpower or Healing Amp. So if you were already at a multiple of 3, adding 1 or 2 caster levels WOULD do nothing.Great insight that I was wholly ignorant of, thanks much!

Alex3000
10-25-2013, 10:20 AM
I don't think Necro Clerics would work well on Epic Elite content(also in EH). I've reached up to 53~54 Wisdom which was a 28 point build. --Lv27
-+2 Wis Tome
+9 Items
Max Wisdom build Point + All WIS in lv ups.
+2 Yugloth, +3 Action Boost
No insight/exceptional bonus(ToD/GS/Alchemical)

I didn't max out any Epic Destiny yet. Also I equipped a +3 Spell Penetration Check in EE quest but Slay Living and Destruction wouldn't even work, including other necromancy or cleric spells.
I've maxed mostly anything I need on Divine Disciple - Spell Penetration, Evocation, Etc.

--My Feats
Maximize
Quicken
Heighten
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Epic Spell Penetration
Greater Wisdom(Epic)
Empower Healing Spell
Toughnessx2


Light based and other spells didn't do a great dmg compared to easier quests. It only does 100~300 dmg and the mobs have high saves and HP. I just find this build useless(No Offense) as most of the wizards who have maxed out their INT on 65, don't always make their spells successful and a lot of the time they cant do anything.

Plus Clerics need to also consider about their Healing items so I think it would be very hard to max out Wisdom. Well there are always casters who can join the party.
I don't know anything about the other Epic Destiny Enhancements so maybe the caster ones could be considered.

I know not having my Wisdom maxed will not give me a good chance to cast my spells in EE quests but I can only cast one spell effectively Power Word:Stun. That's it. Greater Command/Soundburst don't seem to work at all. My gears weren't very good but considering I have a very low chance on penetrating checks in EE, I think it would only raise a few.

This is just my opinion. Your build seemed interesting so I went for an Elite run on Archer Point(at Lv7 Veteran Status) just for a few minutes and it had more survivability than a THF Cleric build. It would be great to know if this build works good in EE content.

Loromir
10-25-2013, 10:32 AM
I don't think Necro Clerics would work well on Epic Elite content(also in EH). I've reached up to 53~54 Wisdom which was a 28 point build. --Lv27
-+2 Wis Tome
+9 Items
Max Wisdom build Point + All WIS in lv ups.
+2 Yugloth, +3 Action Boost
No insight/exceptional bonus(ToD/GS/Alchemical)

I didn't max out any Epic Destiny yet. Also I equipped a +3 Spell Penetration Check in EE quest but Slay Living and Destruction wouldn't even work, including other necromancy or cleric spells.
I've maxed mostly anything I need on Divine Disciple - Spell Penetration, Evocation, Etc.

--My Feats
Maximize
Quicken
Heighten
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Epic Spell Penetration
Greater Wisdom(Epic)
Empower Healing Spell
Toughnessx2


Light based and other spells didn't do a great dmg compared to easier quests. It only does 100~300 dmg and the mobs have high saves and HP. I just find this build useless(No Offense) as most of the wizards who have maxed out their INT on 65, don't always make their spells successful and a lot of time they cant do anything.

Plus Clerics need to also consider about their Healing items so I think it would be very hard to max out Wisdom. Well there are always casters who can join the party.
I don't know anything about the other Epic Destiny Enhancements so maybe the caster ones could be considered.

I know not having my Wisdom maxed will not give me a good chance to cast my spells in EE quests but I can only cast one spell effectively Power Word:Stun. That's it. Greater Command/Soundburst don't seem to work at all. My gears weren't very good but considering I have a very low chance on penetrating checks in EE, I think it would only raise a few.

This is just my opinion. Your build seemed interesting so I went for an Elite run on Archer Point(at Lv7 Veteran Status) just for a few minutes and it had more survivability than a THF Cleric build. It would be great to know if this build works good in EE content.

It seems most characters have to be built differently to be effective in EE. On everything else, this build shines. It can still be an effective healer on EE, so still not a total waste.

I built one of these even before I saw this thread the first time (Made a few tweaks after reading up). It is really a fun build.

Alex3000
10-25-2013, 10:36 AM
It seems most characters have to be built differently to be effective in EE. On everything else, this build shines. It can still be an effective healer on EE, so still not a total waste.

I built one of these even before I saw this thread the first time (Made a few tweaks after reading up). It is really a fun build.

Yes it is still an effective healer on EE but the offensive spells don't work great. How did you make yours? Any Epic destiny(Enhancements too) you recommend??

EllisDee37
10-25-2013, 12:22 PM
I just find this build useless(No Offense) as most of the wizards who have maxed out their INT on 65, don't always make their spells successful and a lot of the time they cant do anything.Wait, you're saying that a DC cleric may not be effective in EE? In other news, water is wet.

This is not an EE build. DC casting in general is not for EE. If you want an EE build, my advice is to avoid DC casting altogether. Go for a juggernaut, monkcher, shirardi MM spammer, or some other EE build.

EDIT: Also, 100-300 damage sounds low. My cleric's damage spells do 400-1000 without metas.

Loromir
10-25-2013, 12:37 PM
Yes it is still an effective healer on EE but the offensive spells don't work great. How did you make yours? Any Epic destiny(Enhancements too) you recommend??

Took the dark path divine disciple, necro school feats including epic feat, in Magister destiny now for Necro school boosts. Spamming Necrotic Bolt/Sunbeam/Word of Balance. Max Wisdom.

Alex3000
10-25-2013, 09:21 PM
Wait, you're saying that a DC cleric may not be effective in EE? In other news, water is wet.

This is not an EE build. DC casting in general is not for EE. If you want an EE build, my advice is to avoid DC casting altogether. Go for a juggernaut, monkcher, shirardi MM spammer, or some other EE build.

EDIT: Also, 100-300 damage sounds low. My cleric's damage spells do 400-1000 without metas.


Well even though you max out Wisdom, DC casting still doesn't work in EE? even though you have all the perfect feats and gears??

Well Blade Barrier did about 100~300 dmg in EE quests but my strong spells like sunbeam or sunbolt does about nearly the same range as yours.

Alex3000
10-25-2013, 09:22 PM
Took the dark path divine disciple, necro school feats including epic feat, in Magister destiny now for Necro school boosts. Spamming Necrotic Bolt/Sunbeam/Word of Balance. Max Wisdom.

Did it work well in EE quests?

EllisDee37
10-25-2013, 10:38 PM
Well even though you max out Wisdom, DC casting still doesn't work in EE? even though you have all the perfect feats and gears??I'm not min/maxed for DC, but even if I were, correct, it does not work in endgame EEs. This is a known situation with the game: DC casting is simply not viable in endgame EEs. Further, clerics are second-tier DC casters compared to pale masters, so clerics will be even worse off.

It's really rather silly to come into a DC caster thread and complain that it won't work in EE. Of course it won't. This has been a known thing for quite a while now.

Due to power creep you can DC cast in easier EE content, and as the power creep grows you'll be able to handle progressively more difficult EEs. However, it's pretty clear that the devs' intention is to ensure that DC casting will never be effective in endgame EE content.

Doesn't bother me, though, since I don't play EE content.


Did it work well in EE quests?This is not an EE build. You might want to try out a shirardi archmage.

Alex3000
10-25-2013, 11:05 PM
I'm not min/maxed for DC, but even if I were, correct, it does not work in endgame EEs. This is a known situation with the game: DC casting is simply not viable in endgame EEs. Further, clerics are second-tier DC casters compared to pale masters, so clerics will be even worse off.

It's really rather silly to come into a DC caster thread and complain that it won't work in EE. Of course it won't. This has been a known thing for quite a while now.

Due to power creep you can DC cast in easier EE content, and as the power creep grows you'll be able to handle progressively more difficult EEs. However, it's pretty clear that the devs' intention is to ensure that DC casting will never be effective in endgame EE content.

Doesn't bother me, though, since I don't play EE content.

This is not an EE build. You might want to try out a shirardi archmage.


Well I wasn't complaining about it doesn't work on EE. I just wanted to find out if it works lol.
Plus there's no thread that explains about a DC caster in EE and especially in the Cleric Forum.

Looks like there's no DC casting for clerics in EE . :(
I wanted to build a Cleric that is effective in EE. So I'm not looking for other classes.

EllisDee37
10-25-2013, 11:23 PM
Well I wasn't complainingYou came into the thread and called the build useless.

EllisDee37
10-26-2013, 12:55 AM
I wanted to build a Cleric that is effective in EE. So I'm not looking for other classes.Here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/418510-Silverdance-Advanced-TWF-Cleric-Build)'s an EE battle cleric.

SirValentine
10-26-2013, 09:17 AM
Well even though you max out Wisdom, DC casting still doesn't work in EE? even though you have all the perfect feats and gears??


A DC-casting Cleric with max Wisdom, past lives, perfect gear, etc., will do great in older EEs, pretty good in EE GH/Wheloon, and do barely well enough not to be completely useless in EE Storm Horns.

So, yes, it works. Works well, in some places. But it works rather poorly in the current hardest content.

The_Mud_Man
10-29-2013, 10:38 PM
Just started this build as I return to the game. What's some decent gear to start out with at level 7?

EllisDee37
10-29-2013, 11:08 PM
Just started this build as I return to the game. What's some decent gear to start out with at level 7?My personal gear plan for this character has nothing especially cleric-y on it for level 7, but that gear list is still from the pre-Shadowfell version. That older version took a wizard level for master's touch and used carnifex/sword of the thirty/whirlwind to hack its way to blade barrier. This new version is caster through and through, so that wouldn't work as well.

Of course the regular stuff: wisdom, con, false life, fortification, maybe charisma, etc... As a level 7 I might try to farm up the mire set and maybe even the sacred set. Not sure on the sacred set, but mire set is solid.

For casting you'll definitely want the highest radiance item you can find, a decent devotion item, and if you can manage it, lore for either or both of them. A thaumaturgy staff with radiance and devotion regardless of the lore (even if useless like ice lore) would be pretty sweet and may not be too tough to find.

In a few levels, I'd make the blue armor line your priority: Elfcraft plate, then blue dragonplate if you can swing it, then at epic levels restored elfcraft. Hold off on flawless blue dragonplate until you're absolutely sure you want to go that route, but while you're deciding, restored elfcraft is cheap and easy to get for an endgame placeholder.

Scepter of Healing and Dalorent's Seal are both excellent items for this build; figure around level 12 to farm up and equip them.

If you're truly brand new I'd recommend the nightforge gear: hat, bracers and necklace.

Teh_Troll
10-29-2013, 11:27 PM
Did I ask this already . . . not sure . . .

what kinda DCs can this hit?

EllisDee37
10-29-2013, 11:40 PM
Did I ask this already . . . not sure . . .

what kinda DCs can this hit?Not good enough for EEs. You need perfect gear and all 3 twists devoted to wisdom & dc to hit 60 necro. You might not even hit 60.

Though I was kicking around the idea of running mine through some of the beginner EEs solo just for the fun and challenge of it to see if I could. He doesn't have perfect gear, but his gear is very good. (EE blue helm, fully upgraded flawless blue scale, 4 FoT raid items, etc...)

EDIT: More complete breakdown, here's my current stats at level 25:

600 HP
3017 SP
52? necro dc

Ways I could improve his necro dc:

+1 litany of the dead
+1 wisdom twist
+2 twist in acute instincts (chugging rage potions)
+2 upgrade from +8 to +10 item
+1 levelup @ 27
+1 feat @ 28
+2 yugo pots
+2 alchemical shield or weapon
----
+12 wisdom

+6 wisdom mod
+1 divine disciple tier 5 (I take aura instead)
+1 upgrade necro dc item from +4 to +5
----
+8 necro dc for 60 dc sustainable

Maybe add a store pot for 61.

The_Mud_Man
10-31-2013, 12:15 AM
My personal gear plan for this character has nothing especially cleric-y on it for level 7, but that gear list is still from the pre-Shadowfell version. That older version took a wizard level for master's touch and used carnifex/sword of the thirty/whirlwind to hack its way to blade barrier. This new version is caster through and through, so that wouldn't work as well.

Of course the regular stuff: wisdom, con, false life, fortification, maybe charisma, etc... As a level 7 I might try to farm up the mire set and maybe even the sacred set. Not sure on the sacred set, but mire set is solid.

For casting you'll definitely want the highest radiance item you can find, a decent devotion item, and if you can manage it, lore for either or both of them. A thaumaturgy staff with radiance and devotion regardless of the lore (even if useless like ice lore) would be pretty sweet and may not be too tough to find.

In a few levels, I'd make the blue armor line your priority: Elfcraft plate, then blue dragonplate if you can swing it, then at epic levels restored elfcraft. Hold off on flawless blue dragonplate until you're absolutely sure you want to go that route, but while you're deciding, restored elfcraft is cheap and easy to get for an endgame placeholder.

Scepter of Healing and Dalorent's Seal are both excellent items for this build; figure around level 12 to farm up and equip them.

If you're truly brand new I'd recommend the nightforge gear: hat, bracers and necklace.
Where do I get the mire and sacred sets?

thouston
10-31-2013, 04:49 AM
Where do I get the mire and sacred sets?

red fens

Alex3000
11-15-2013, 10:06 PM
I'm going to lesser reincarnate as it will give me 32 point and kinda reduce the quest time or more fun on playing this Necro Cleric. It will be Lv28.

I've noticed the most useful necro spells are Slay Living/Destruction/Energy Drain/Symbol of Death. The stuns spells are all Enchantments. How did your stun spells work out in End game?
Wouldn't it be better to focus on evocation spells? since you'll likely have a caster in endgame content and not much spells on necro or I haven't noticed.
Also I would like to know about your evocation spells.


Endgame gears would be nice to know.
And Destiny.

EllisDee37
11-16-2013, 01:02 AM
The only evocation spells to focus on are blade barrier and implosion. I prefer the necro spells you outlined.

If by endgame you mean the highest level content on epic elite, DC casting on a cleric likely won't work. For that, your best best is to go evocation specced and shoot for 70 evo DC.

Alex3000
11-19-2013, 02:00 AM
Most of the cleric Stun spells are Enchantment based so will it be a good idea to cast Greater Command on EH or EE quest? Since Cleric DCs are much worse than Wizards.

SirValentine
11-19-2013, 07:02 AM
will it be a good idea to cast Greater Command on EH or EE quest?


Sure, why not? Greater Command is a good spell.



Since Cleric DCs are much worse than Wizards.


With their bonus feats as a class feature (and Clerics NOT having their class feature, Domains) and a better spell selection (Turbine, implement more Divine spells!), Wizards do have more breadth & versatility.

But best possible DCs between Clerics & Wizards aren't really that far apart at all.

Clerics don't really have anything to directly fill the role of persistent CC the way Web or Otto's Sphere do for Wizards. Of course, there is such a spell in base 3.5 D&D, and, lo-and-behold, that spell is already implemented in DDO! But for some reason the devs refuse to give Clerics this core Cleric spell.

Starp
01-06-2014, 08:25 AM
Hey, EllisDee37!

I just wanted to say thanks for a great build. I've played this build from 1 to 18 so far (with just a couple of personal modifications in the order of enhancements). He's a real winner. To be honest, I hardly ever cast blade barrier because I'm always with a party...go, go Cleric! :D

Happy New Year!

pappo
02-07-2014, 09:23 PM
Hey EllisDee37

Thanks for the build. As of now, 2014, is the first post updated for your final enhancements tree ?
Also, would you mind posting your spell list and say which ones are your primary spells (non-healing) for mobs and red-names ?

Thanks

EllisDee37
02-07-2014, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the build. As of now, 2014, is the first post updated for your final enhancements tree ?
Also, would you mind posting your spell list and say which ones are your primary spells (non-healing) for mobs and red-names ?I haven't updated it yet, no, but I will try to get to it soon. And sure, I'll toss in my spell list. I now have a template I'm happy with in the epic challenge farmer build.

eachna_gislin
02-08-2014, 07:14 AM
My personal gear plan for this character has nothing especially cleric-y on it for level 7, but that gear list is still from the pre-Shadowfell version. That older version took a wizard level for master's touch and used carnifex/sword of the thirty/whirlwind to hack its way to blade barrier. This new version is caster through and through, so that wouldn't work as well.

Of course the regular stuff: wisdom, con, false life, fortification, maybe charisma, etc... As a level 7 I might try to farm up the mire set and maybe even the sacred set. Not sure on the sacred set, but mire set is solid.

For casting you'll definitely want the highest radiance item you can find, a decent devotion item, and if you can manage it, lore for either or both of them. A thaumaturgy staff with radiance and devotion regardless of the lore (even if useless like ice lore) would be pretty sweet and may not be too tough to find.

In a few levels, I'd make the blue armor line your priority: Elfcraft plate, then blue dragonplate if you can swing it, then at epic levels restored elfcraft. Hold off on flawless blue dragonplate until you're absolutely sure you want to go that route, but while you're deciding, restored elfcraft is cheap and easy to get for an endgame placeholder.

Scepter of Healing and Dalorent's Seal are both excellent items for this build; figure around level 12 to farm up and equip them.

If you're truly brand new I'd recommend the nightforge gear: hat, bracers and necklace.

The Sacred set is very useful at level and as swap in gear at somewhat higher levels. Deathblock, extra turns (for extra healing bursts), Eternal faith for when you do want to use turns for turning, +4 wisdom never hurts. Sadly, the Devotion set bonus is cr@p these days, but it's better than nothing as a backup. I also make sure to get the Marshwalker set on all my toons (particularly slow divines), it has the fastest low-level striding bonus in the game.

I'd also second the vote for the nightforge gear. I like the nightforge bracers and gorget (necklace) and have both on all my toons for leveling. I'm not sure what the hat does but I'm sure it's excellent. I also like the returning dart (although that's when you have adamantine to burn). It's handy to have a returning weapon to trip levers and target pesky archers (if you don't have a better ranged option).

At higher levels, farming up a Pale Lavender ioun stone and a Deep Purple ioun stone is priceless for any caster. You need to be at least 18th level (I think) to run the quest but once you unlock the items you can use them at ml: 5 so they're great for multiple lives.

If you get in on a Tempest Spine raid, there's a couple nice items. First up is the Cloak of Invisibility. It gives you a green slot, an invisibility clickie, and 10% perma-blur when worn. That's useful for any class. Then two robes with exactly the same stats: Robe of Arcane Puissance and Robe of Potency. While they're meant for arcanes they're also right handy for caster clerics.

Heroic Gianthold's Reaver's Fate raid has a great pair of gloves for a cleric that gives decent Devotion. While the weapons/shields others have recommended with Devotion are a good suggestion, I cannot emphasize strongly enough how important it is to have a devotion item that's not wielded. It's all too easy to swap to a different staff/melee weapon/scroll/etc and lose access to your devotion bonus. It doesn't have to be the best possible devotion item but it should be something (even if it's just the aforementioned Sacred set bonus).

Speaking of Devotion "somewhere" the Seraphim helm you get from turning in Tattered Tapestries in the necropolis is an underappreciated swap item. It gives bonuses for turning undead and +66 Devotion in a ml:11 helm. I know everyone rushes for a Minos helm but I much prefer the Nightforge gorget for my fortification, and with augment slots I can fit the vitality anywhere. And it addresses that pesky backup Devotion problem. If you don't use a Seraphim the heroic Shamanic Fetish in Gianthold is a nice Devotion item in the trinket slot. It's BTCoE with a high drop rate so you can usually scrounge one for cheap (or free) from a helpful guildie.

EllisDee37
02-08-2014, 01:27 PM
Other sources of "backup" devotion include the sora kell set (which is actually pretty nice for a cleric) and the alchemist's set (which is excellent for clerics.)

pappo
02-11-2014, 11:28 AM
This is a pure 20 DC caster cleric who (of course) can also raid heal. No tomes are required and no pay classes or races are involved; this is a solid choice for a new player who wants to play a cleric. It works fine as a healbot, plus it can offer much more once you get comfortable healing. It is also a capable soloer, though you'll need to use timing to get through traps. (Most traps have a safe way to get through them.)


Necro Cleric
Level 28 Neutral Good Human
(20 Cleric / 8 Epic)



Will this build still work as a Dwarf? I have a couple of Dwarf's ready for a TR. One is a 16/4 Cleric/Fighter that I enjoyed playing. I have never taken a cleric into Epics and this one looks very interesting.

Thanks for the build
+1

pappo
02-11-2014, 12:33 PM
I haven't updated it yet, no, but I will try to get to it soon. And sure, I'll toss in my spell list. I now have a template I'm happy with in the epic challenge farmer build.

I looked at the Epic challenge farmer build, but that is for a Wizard. I was wondering what your spell list for the Necro Cleric looks like.

Thanks

EllisDee37
02-11-2014, 04:20 PM
Will this build still work as a Dwarf? I have a couple of Dwarf's ready for a TR. One is a 16/4 Cleric/Fighter that I enjoyed playing. I have never taken a cleric into Epics and this one looks very interesting.Dwarf loses a feat and skills, both of which hurt. The skills less so, especially if you have a +2 int tome.

Losing the feat hurts more. In early levels your SLAs will be significantly weaker, but I suppose it should still work. If I had to drop a feat, I'd probably drop enlarge. Enlarge isn't taken until level 24, though, meaning the rest of the feats would all get pushed back 3 levels. That'll make leveling a bit uncomfortable but not impossible.

pappo
02-11-2014, 05:40 PM
Dwarf loses a feat and skills, both of which hurt. The skills less so, especially if you have a +2 int tome.

Losing the feat hurts more. In early levels your SLAs will be significantly weaker, but I suppose it should still work. If I had to drop a feat, I'd probably drop enlarge. Enlarge isn't taken until level 24, though, meaning the rest of the feats would all get pushed back 3 levels. That'll make leveling a bit uncomfortable but not impossible.

EllisDee - Thanks for the honest answer. Maybe I should try my Dwarf on your Kensai Warpriest instead. I would have a Cleric pastlife to use.
Would a Dwarf do better on that?
Should I transfer my question to your Warpriest thread : https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426765 ??

vampiregoat69
02-14-2014, 11:34 AM
This says Necro cleric yet you take light path is there a reason for that?

Nodoze
02-14-2014, 02:59 PM
This says Necro cleric yet you take light path is there a reason for that?There is a lot of care in the build/post giving a level by level path for new players but sometimes all the detail can make it hard to see everything...

I think it levels with Light SLAs at first and then switches to Necro.

From above:

... There's a feat respec at level 12. ...

... Enhancement: Reset Divine Disciple tree (see below) ...

...
The basic concept for leveling is to rely on the Divine Disciple light SLAs to carry you until you get the higher power spells like blade barrier, slay living, destruction and implosion. ...

... At level 20 you need to reset the Divine Disciple tree to drop the Nimbus of Light SLA. (This is also for easy reference if you're using the free LR+20.) ...

...
Core: Transcendence
...

IIRC Transcendence gives you both the light side and dark sides...

SirValentine
02-14-2014, 04:19 PM
IIRC Transcendence gives you both the light side and dark sides...


Transcendence gives you access to the extra spells from both the Light and Dark cores. But your original choice still dictates which +DC you can get, which spell power or SLAs, etc..

My own current build is a Necro Cleric, which, not surprisingly, has a lot in common with Ellis's build here. I was Light up until level 11, using Light SLAs heavily, then swapped to Dark and took no SLAs.

EllisDee37
02-14-2014, 04:26 PM
This says Necro cleric yet you take light path is there a reason for that?Initially it's to have access to better SLAs in the disciple tree. At level 20 you get all spells from either side, and the spells are better than the SLAs so it becomes moot.

Keep in mind that there's pretty much no benefit from +1 necromancy DC until you get slay living anyway.

EDIT: I just realized that the build in the OP says to stay lightside at 20, which is why you're asking the question. I change to darkside similar to SirValentine describes, but I haven't updated the OP yet. I think I address this around page 3. I should really update the OP in the very near future.

EllisDee37
02-14-2014, 04:29 PM
Transcendence gives you access to the extra spells from both the Light and Dark cores. But your original choice still dictates which +DC you can get, which spell power or SLAs, etc..Hey question for you: How good is the Holy Smite SLA? Should I rework the build to race to it as a core feature until the switch to the dark side? (I may update the build today or tomorrow anyway, and if Holy Smite is really good then this gives me a legitimate reason to get off my $%#$%^ and get it done.)

And yep, this explains the core concept better than I did:
I was Light up until level 11, using Light SLAs heavily, then swapped to Dark and took no SLAs.

SirValentine
02-14-2014, 08:22 PM
Hey question for you: How good is the Holy Smite SLA? Should I rework the build to race to it as a core feature until the switch to the dark side? (I may update the build today or tomorrow anyway, and if Holy Smite is really good then this gives me a legitimate reason to get off my $%#$%^ and get it done.)


It's the first real AOE damage divines gets. Sure, it's not as much damage as Fireball (d8 per 2 levels instead of d6 per 1), but the damage is decent and, let me stress this, IT'S AOE. So if you like Sorc-style zerg until Red Alert then blast them all at once, it's there for you. Even if you have to wait through a cooldown, it's nice at level 6. And it works even better when you can combine the SLA with the actual spell at level 7.

Of course, once I get Blade Barrier & Cometfall, I pretty much never cast it again. :-)

Dmitrythewizzy
02-21-2014, 11:47 AM
Hey question for you: How good is the Holy Smite SLA? Should I rework the build to race to it as a core feature until the switch to the dark side? (I may update the build today or tomorrow anyway, and if Holy Smite is really good then this gives me a legitimate reason to get off my $%#$%^ and get it done.)

And yep, this explains the core concept better than I did:

Thank you very much for this build. I am a returning player and TRed for a third life and used this to go to level 14 where I used the experience stone to bump to twenty where I am today. This is as high as I have ever been because it was the top level the last time I played. Any advice on gearing at 20 and where best to level? I have a TON of great content to still experience (I have not touched Forgotten Realms stuff at all) and so I am in no great hurry to power up from here. I found your build to be a good solo/group balance and have had a blast doing both. Feel free to consider me a Nuub because I am (even though on 3rd life :) .

Where best to solo hunt?

What items are best to work on?

What spells should I be casting?

How best to help out in a group outside of healing?

Again, thank you a TON for doing this build. It made the game so much more enjoyable to know I was not gimping myself as I levelled.

Nodoze
02-21-2014, 01:52 PM
Thank you very much for this build. I am a returning player and TRed for a third life and used this to go to level 14 where I used the experience stone to bump to twenty where I am today. This is as high as I have ever been because it was the top level the last time I played. Any advice on gearing at 20 and where best to level? I have a TON of great content to still experience (I have not touched Forgotten Realms stuff at all) and so I am in no great hurry to power up from here. I found your build to be a good solo/group balance and have had a blast doing both. Feel free to consider me a Nuub because I am (even though on 3rd life :) .

Where best to solo hunt?

What items are best to work on?

What spells should I be casting?

How best to help out in a group outside of healing?

Again, thank you a TON for doing this build. It made the game so much more enjoyable to know I was not gimping myself as I levelled.I personally like farming the commendation gear at 20. It gives a good reason to see the MotU content and is good gear at 20 that lasts for awhile when leveling up further. You can find more info here:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_sets#Commendation_Item_Sets

Dmitrythewizzy
02-21-2014, 09:14 PM
I personally like farming the commendation gear at 20. It gives a good reason to see the MotU content and is good gear at 20 that lasts for awhile when leveling up further. You can find more info here:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_sets#Commendation_Item_Sets

Thanks... will give that a roll!

EllisDee37
03-04-2014, 02:13 PM
My own current build is a Necro Cleric, which, not surprisingly, has a lot in common with Ellis's build here. I was Light up until level 11, using Light SLAs heavily, then swapped to Dark and took no SLAs.I'm sitting down now to redo the enhancements for this build, and would love your feedback on heroic leveling.

Starting with all points into DD, racing to all 3 SLAs asap. (Nimbus @ 1, Searing @ 3, Smite @ 6). This seems like a safe start, to be used regardless of the rest of the way. But then level 11 brings a hard choice.

I'm leaning toward a complete changeover at level 11, where the empower feat (taken at 1) gets swapped for spell penetration. At the same time, reset the divine disciple tree to switch to dark side and take no SLAs at all.

Is this essentially what you did? And if so, how was the experience at level 11 with no SLAs but the much shinier new toy of blade barrier?

EDIT: A followup question: I'm tempted to go with all Light spell power in the DD tree for the first 10 levels since the build does all its damage with light. However, that means no positive spell power from enhancements at all. Would you recommend going all light for the DD spell poiwer, all universal, or a mixture of the two? This is just for the first 10 levels, before the switch.

My inclination is universal, but I'm definitely curious about the pure light approach.

SirValentine
03-05-2014, 03:17 AM
I'm leaning toward a complete changeover at level 11, where the empower feat (taken at 1) gets swapped for spell penetration. At the same time, reset the divine disciple tree to switch to dark side and take no SLAs at all.

Is this essentially what you did? And if so, how was the experience at level 11 with no SLAs but the much shinier new toy of blade barrier?


Pretty much what I did, yes.

However, I never took Empower at all. If I had it, though, swapping it for Spell Pen wouldn't be a priority prior to Vale of Twilight, unless you're worried about the higher cost (Exceptional versus plain Siberys Dragonshard).

And having no SLAs at 11+ was no hardship. Blade Barrier all kite-able trash, insta-kill non-kite-able, DP bosses.



EDIT: A followup question: I'm tempted to go with all Light spell power in the DD tree for the first 10 levels since the build does all its damage with light. However, that means no positive spell power from enhancements at all. Would you recommend going all light for the DD spell poiwer, all universal, or a mixture of the two? This is just for the first 10 levels, before the switch.

My inclination is universal, but I'm definitely curious about the pure light approach.


Hmm...I think I did go with all Light spell power at first, but I don't remember for sure. Healing is easy enough at low levels that I don't think you'd miss the Positive too much. (They sell Cure pots! :-} )

After I switched to Dark side, I went straight Universal Spell Power.

EllisDee37
03-05-2014, 05:11 AM
Thanks much, I appreciate the feedback.


However, I never took Empower at all. If I had it, though, swapping it for Spell Pen wouldn't be a priority prior to Vale of Twilight, unless you're worried about the higher cost (Exceptional versus plain Siberys Dragonshard).Yes, purely a cost issue. Obviously not for me, but more thinking about a brand new player rolling up one of these as their very first character.

However, I do start to notice spell resistance around level 12, specifically the duergar in Ataraxia and relic of a sovereign past. And remember that empower is really just for the SLAs, which we're dropping at the same time. (It helps with burst, but as we both can attest burst works fine with just maximize and empower heal.)

EDIT: And I just remembered the drow in VON3, plus the demons in threnal and sorrowdusk. While there isn't a ton of utility for spell penetration from 11-17, I think there's enough to help justify switching at 11 for the cost.

EDIT 2: Oh, sweet, the enhancements make going all light for the first 10 levels a no-brainer because the tier 2 spell power is a choice between fire, force and universal. So tier 1 all light, tier 2 universal, tier 3 all light. This makes me happy; the enhancements are falling into place just about perfectly.

EllisDee37
03-05-2014, 03:56 PM
Okay, the enhancements are finally updated. While I did redo the entire build section of the OP, none of the feats, skills, starting stats, or ability raises changed. Just the enhancements. I also made a minor change to the destiny section, dropping avenging light in favor of the last point of wisdom and adding in boulder toss as the third twist. I do love me some boulder toss.

thouston
03-05-2014, 04:38 PM
Okay, the enhancements are finally updated. While I did redo the entire build section of the OP, none of the feats, skills, starting stats, or ability raises changed. Just the enhancements. I also made a minor change to the destiny section, dropping avenging light in favor of the last point of wisdom and adding in boulder toss as the third twist. I do love me some boulder toss.

tyvm

assimilateur
03-13-2014, 10:19 PM
Currently nuking - if it can be called that on a cleric - using light DD SLAs and leveling Shiradi but I'm probably going to TR or LR and try for DC casting after I'm done with this, so this thread has been helpful so far. Especially since my experience with casters is rather limited.

Can you flesh out some info on what your DCs and stats (mainly wisdom) look like when geared? My DCs are in the mid to high 30s (admittedly without DC feats and twists, but those only account for like 5 or 6 in the case of necromancy unless I'm forgetting something) while my wisdom is in the low 40s, and I have only a vague idea of how any of this is supposed to be significantly improved. I mean my +7 enhancement, +2 insightful wisdom gear is only a couple points shy of what the benchmark here is but I hear about people getting 50s or 60s in their caster stats like it's nothing. Maybe there's some obvious, reasonably easy to get gear that I'm missing here?

Also, I can't wrap my head around dropping empower if you're going to use blade barriers and/or divine punishment at all. And that's on a human, meaning playing another race would require you to drop one extra feat. So maybe a non-human should drop maximize as well and give up on direct damage spells altogether? Or do you have better ideas?

EllisDee37
03-14-2014, 04:07 PM
In terms of DC, here's the basic foundation you can acquire without much effort using the build as written: (There's one minor change, switching the third twist from boulder toss to wisdom.)

Wisdom
18 base
7 levelups
2 divine disciple tree
2 radiant servant tree
2 capstone
1 human adaptability (also available to half-elf)
6 exalted angel (12 AP)
1 twist (drop boulder toss)
2 tome (1750 favor)
1 epic feat
10 item
3 insightful
1 exceptional
2 ship buff
----
58 total (24 mod)

Necromancy
10 base
9 heighten
24 wisdom
1 focus feat
3 magister twist
1 divine disciple tier 4
4 focus item +4
2 augment
----
54 DC

54 is, of course, not great. It's worth pointing out that a necro DC of 54 is pretty solid for EH, so the basic build without much effort will have you running EH without issue. EE is another matter, where you really want to get on the higher side of the mid-60s. To try and get there requires some more exotic additions and changes:

Wisdom
58 starting
1 warpriest tree (take disciple to tier 5 instead of servant, meaning you lose aura)
1 +11 item
2 yugo pot
3 mabar +5 tome
1 litany of the dead
2 alchemical +2 wisdom weapon or shield
2 acute instincts (twist from fury, drop brace for impact)
2 completionist
----
72 wisdom (31 mod)

Necromancy
54 starting
7 wisdom
1 wizard past life
1 focus item +5
1 greater focus feat (drop enlarge)
1 epic focus feat (drop epic spell pen, get a couple wizard past lives to compensate)
1 divine disciple tier 5
---
66 DC

66 necro DC is viable for EE, at least prior to U21. As an added bonus, the U21 gear lets you add in another few DC thanks to the new caster sticks you can get from the raid. This is particularly appealing because it means you no longer need alchemical weapons with their unique +2 wisdom. (They are equivalent to shroud crafting in terms of gathering mats but unlike shroud, almost nobody runs them.) Even losing that +2 the U21 caster sticks are a net increase in your DC.

EllisDee37
03-14-2014, 04:28 PM
Also, I can't wrap my head around dropping empower if you're going to use blade barriers and/or divine punishment at all. And that's on a human, meaning playing another race would require you to drop one extra feat. So maybe a non-human should drop maximize as well and give up on direct damage spells altogether? Or do you have better ideas?Well, in fairness, I can't wrap my head around using both maximize and empower without having to chug mana pots like they're going out of style. If I had to drop a feat to fit in empower I'd drop enlarge.

In any case, I would never drop maximize. Consider your easily-acquired basic spell power for force/untyped:

36 divine disciple
16 radiant servant (32 AP spent)
114 augment
21 implement
----
187 force spell power

Pretty sure I'm missing some points there, but this works fine to illustrate the point. Now we add maximize:

187 base
150 maximize
----
337 force spell power

150 is 80% of 187, meaning adding maximize adds 80% more damage. Now add in empower on top of that:

337 base
75 empower
----
412 force spell power

75 is 22% of 337, meaning that it effectively only gives a little over a quarter of the benefit that maximize gives. (22% increase compared to not having it, where maximize gave an 80% increase compared to not having it.)

unbongwah
03-14-2014, 05:18 PM
Well, in fairness, I can't wrap my head around using both maximize and empower without having to chug mana pots like they're going out of style.
Normally I think Empower is worth it just for bursts & SLAs; I only use it for regular spells when I'm in mana-dump mode. But it looks like you take no SLAs from DiDi, so your build would get less mileage from Emp. Different strokes etc.

EllisDee37
03-14-2014, 05:48 PM
Normally I think Empower is worth it just for bursts & SLAs; I only use it for regular spells when I'm in mana-dump mode. But it looks like you take no SLAs from DiDi, so your build would get less mileage from Emp. Different strokes etc.Agreed, but he was talking specifically about blade barrier and divine punishment:


Also, I can't wrap my head around dropping empower if you're going to use blade barriers and/or divine punishment at all.

assimilateur
03-14-2014, 06:02 PM
I only use maximize and empower for SLAs, (which I'm going to drop if I commit to pushing for DCs, so that solves one problem), radiant burst (no aura), and two direct damage spells, to wit blade barrier and divine punishment. Out of these only the latter spells increase my mana costs, and I usually only have to drop a few blade barriers per quest while divine punishment is reserved for bosses. Here's a list of feats I would ideally want:
Maximize
Empower
Empower Healing
Heighten
Quicken
Spell Penetration + Greater Spell Penetration
Spell Focus + Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy

Since I'm only going to get 7 heroic feats and I presumably want to take epic feats as my, well, epic feats (epic spell focus and penetration, and probably an extra point of wisdom*), I'm going to have to drop two of those. Now out of those, and with the goal of DCs in mind and the need for heals, I feel like maximize and empower are the odd ones out. This is going to be a big deal for boss DPS in a party (DP) and trash DPS on my own (BB); an even bigger deal than I thought, in fact, since I was somehow under the impression that maximize added 100 spell power and not 150 as you pointed out.

On the topic of stats, I completely blacked out on taking 6 points of wisdom in my ED. All things being equal, with my current gear (which admittedly leaves room for improvement as I've already pointed out), that would take me to 48.


EDIT:
* I guess giving up on epic spell penetration and epic wisdom would allow me to fit in everything on that list, I'd just have to take two heroic feats at epic levels. Talk about being a late bloomer.

SirValentine
03-14-2014, 06:19 PM
As an added bonus, the U21 gear lets you add in another few DC thanks to the new caster sticks you can get from the raid. This is particularly appealing because it means you no longer need alchemical weapons with their unique +2 wisdom. (They are equivalent to shroud crafting in terms of gathering mats but unlike shroud, almost nobody runs them.) Even losing that +2 the U21 caster sticks are a net increase in your DC.

Yes, replacing an Alchemical Wisdom with a +2 Exceptional DC is a gain of 1, and a +6 Focus item instead of +5 is another 1. Note though, that while an absolute gain, it's a relative loss compared to arcanes DCs; they gain 3 to divine's 2, due to NOT giving up 2 casting stat to do it.

Also, 1 more DC is available on Shadowscale armor, a +1 Profane bonus to DCs.

SirValentine
03-14-2014, 06:35 PM
Also, I can't wrap my head around dropping empower if you're going to use blade barriers and/or divine punishment at all.
And that's on a human, meaning playing another race would require you to drop one extra feat. So maybe a non-human should drop maximize as well and give up on direct damage spells altogether? Or do you have better ideas?


I've ran my most recent Cleric life from 1 to 28 without Empower, and haven't missed it at all. I've even been toying with the idea of dropping Maximize, but haven't made up my mind yet.

Some folks over in the Druid forum were discussing this issue. The impact the feats have on your damage, though noticeable, is not game-breaking huge; while the impact they have on your mana usage is. Here's a few quotes from a thread over there:



I decided to change my build in order to be more epic elite oriented, by removing maximize and empower spell and by increasing the amount of spell points.




call lightning sla will deal about 450 damage instead of 350 damage with empower and maximize every 6 seconds.
word of balance sla will deal about 600 damage instead of 500 damage with empower and maximize every 15 seconds.




I agree, was just doing a couple of past lives then coming back to druid and took no metas and was surprised how well it worked out, no potting very similar dmg.




I still find maximize and empower too expensive for a druid in epic elite content, where you need tons of spell points due to the huge amount of mobs hit points (especially bosses).




About maximize and empower feats: I played all epic elite content and I don't miss them at all.


Now, a Druid and a Cleric are not exactly the same, of course, but there are similarities. It's worth thinking about.

EllisDee37
03-14-2014, 07:08 PM
Great inisght, SirValentine.

Did I get the necro DC breakdown correct? I thought I remembered you saying 66 was the realistic DC for clerics to achieve, and I ended up with 66 in the breakdown so I'm hoping I didn't mess anything up too badly. (It's different now with U21 gear; I mean for pre-U21.)

And does that mean with U21 that 70 is the new benchmark for necro clerics?

SirValentine
03-14-2014, 08:44 PM
Did I get the necro DC breakdown correct? I thought I remembered you saying 66 was the realistic DC for clerics to achieve, and I ended up with 66 in the breakdown so I'm hoping I didn't mess anything up too badly. (It's different now with U21 gear; I mean for pre-U21.)

And does that mean with U21 that 70 is the new benchmark for necro clerics?


Yes, it looked about right...I didn't line-by-line it, but nothing popped out at me.

There's also Epic Completionist, opening up a 4th twist slot, to potentially account for.

I re-ran my numbers with all the new stuff, for all schools and all 3 Wisdom caster classes, in a spreadsheet, and it came out to a 71 for a Necro-specced clonk WITH the form feats taken, or 70 for a pure Cleric or a clonk without form feats. But that's with Completionist, Epic Completionist, and all the gear.

EDIT: Oh, and there's +6 tomes...I didn't include them in my spreadsheet yet. A +6 Wis tome doesn't break to a higher DC than 70 for a pure Cleric (would free up a twist or feat, though), but it could push a clonk to 71 without form feats or 72 with.

My own build, I'm looking to reach 69 once I run the new raids a bunch. I just hit level 28 and am at 65 DC right now, with no new raid gear and no EE Shadowsight here yet either. And no Epic PLs.

Batallia
03-24-2014, 12:10 PM
Have used this build for sometime now on Yazz and I must say I like it :-)
The insta kills and cc are very impressive! Originally planned on ending as a Sorc/Wiz but fell in love with this build, haven't looked back since doing this... Yes, first time I followed your build plan did include the wiz split and now its pretty close to what you have. Want to thank a few folks for advice offered in threads over the last couple of years - Sir V. ; Unbong; & Ellis (there are more, but you folks come to mind)

BigErkyKid
04-16-2014, 05:47 PM
I was torn between a DC evoc sorc (not Shiradi!) and my old personal taste for DC casting and then saw this. I already have a PM wizzard but I was wondering if I could try out this when I finish my current life as a fvs.

A have a couple of questions from someone who has never played a DC based divine and I wonder of someone around could help me out. Thanks in advance!


1. How does this work in the true end game? Do you need to prepare the mobs before landing the auto kills? If so, how do you manage the blue bar?

2. Outside of the autokills and heals, what are the regular actions of the build?

Thanks again and I am eager to try some variation of this!

EllisDee37
04-16-2014, 06:34 PM
I don't run true endgame, but SirValentine does. Try his Budstein thread for more information.

SirValentine
04-16-2014, 07:31 PM
1. How does this work in the true end game? Do you need to prepare the mobs before landing the auto kills? If so, how do you manage the blue bar?


What's "true" end game?

Even before the recent +3 DC buff in Angel, I was happy with the performance of my Necro Cleric in EE GH, EE Wheloon, and more recently the new Dragon raids on EH. Reliable without debuffs on most mobs, a bit of debuffing on higher Fort save mobs. SP hadn't generally been an issue for me. Unless another well-built instakiller with faster fingers than me (the faster fingers part isn't too hard to acheive...I'm not as young as I used to be) is in party, too, I expect to top the kill count.

Anything below that, EEs of level 23s or lower, or EH non-raids, it's pretty much way over-powered on non-red-named.

EE Storm Horns, it is NOT over-powered at all, nor really a solo build, due to, as you alluded to, SP issues from required debuffing. But you can still land things after some debuffing. Would help if divines had some better AoE debuffs available. Haven't really run the new raids on EE much (just one Shadow Dragon run, and I was busy healing the tank), so not sure how things stand there.



2. Outside of the autokills and heals, what are the regular actions of the build?


Kill trash, add some DPS to bosses, toss some heals if you want...what else do you want to do? Not sure what you're getting at here. You can buff people at shrines. You could CC instead of instakill...though most cases, why would you want to?

- Destruction every 8 seconds
- Slay Living every 8 seconds
- Every 1 minute, Implosion
- Every 1 minute, Mass Frog
- Every 5 minutes, you get +1 to DCs for 2 minutes via Ascendance
- Wings are handy for getting in close to land those Slay Livings or to position for Mass Frog

BigErkyKid
04-17-2014, 04:01 AM
Oh hi, you were faster than me!

Alright, by true end game I meant EE and more specifically the harder quests. A bit of a loose way to measure it but for me VONs on EE are "early" end game, Gianthold would be the "mid" end game and Storm the "true" end game. From casual observation and having played through them with a PM in the case of DCs. But I have been out of epics for a long while by now so this might no longer be accurate.

I asked a bit about the play other than the insta kills because I haven't done any epics at all with a divine yet. I figured that the usual routine of a divine (for instance blade barriers) would not work that well at all against the HP punching bags of true end game.

Not being a top divine player and after the longest period of inactivity with my cleric (I am doing a heroic life with a FVS, but that is pretty much a matter of running and throwing BB for the most part...) I was wondering about the general routiens.

It seems to me that while insta kills are fun, it does limit a lot having to debuff first. Not that you cannot contribute to a party, but probably a DrPepper sorc would just end the mobs faster...

In the case of my PM, when I managed to work out acceptable DCs, I would contribute with some insta kills but try to be useful with disco ba lls, webs, some mass debuffs...I wonder how the cleric plays in that respect in end game.

In any case thanks in advance for the discussion and I guess I went a bit on a rant here.

MacRighteous
05-05-2014, 09:41 AM
Just wanted to drop the OP a note of thanks for posting this build... I've been having a blast playing this cleric and have been tearing through content at level> This is my first time playing a non-melee toon for any length of time and I'm wading through quests that give my melee's a hard time. I'm only level 8 ATM but this weekend I burned through Delera's tomb on hard difficulty in about 40 minutes... I got the voice first pull. I one shotted the beholder in house K - didnt pull the necklace - oh well - next on to red fens...

Im loving the free SLA's metamagics and really have learned a lot about casting with this build... thanks again.

Any tips for a FL cleric casting nub who still has a hard time not swinging his scepters of spell-X at stuff? Like gear and stuff to craft? What to farm - that sort of thing? On my melees i usually dont bother with gear(save crafted stuff here and there) till after Delera's (voice, Carnifex) then red fens - for combinations of the set gear, then the sora kell stuff - then Demon sands - and Gianthold - Would you suggest this same approach for this build?

Anyways - thanks again for posting this info - it brought new life into the game with me and I'm actually looking forward to bringing out my abandoned Palemaster now...

Peace
MacR

EllisDee37
05-05-2014, 03:37 PM
The sora kell set is solid for this build. And the mire set is always good for anyone, at least until 18 when you can switch to rocket boots. Mine wears both sora kell and mire.

Other key items to look for to complement the sets might include:

Scepter of Healing => Forgotten Light
Dalorent's Seal => Bulwark of the Storm's Fist
Elfcraft Plate Armor => Blue Dragonplate => Restored Elfcraft => Flawless Blue

Both weapons are great caster cleric weapons in addition to using wisdom for attack and damage, which really helps out when you feel the urge to swing a weapon. (Like, say, when your blade barrier leaves a mob slivered.)

The "blue" line of armor is kind of crappy nowadays, but still very cleric-y. Dalorent's Seal is the best shield you'll find until epic levels.

An alternative to blue line + bulwark is the druid's deep armor and shield.

MacRighteous
05-05-2014, 10:43 PM
<snip>

...The "blue" line of armor is kind of crappy nowadays, but still very cleric-y. Dalorent's Seal is the best shield you'll find until epic levels.




Whoa - between the Armor, Shield and Mace, I would cut out about six crafted scepters and half my current gear - freeing up my slots (and bags) for all sorts of other good stuff.. Excellent call dude. Its amazing how being so focused on one thing (melee toons) can put blinders on ya to other stuff - I must of looked over this gear a hundred times on the wiki and in game and dismissed it as ****. (with the possible exception of maybe my pallies) and its fairly easy to get too.. So quick gear plan - on to red fens for some set pieces:

Divine Blessing (for farming necro for the shield and undead)
Elder's Knowledge (for everything else)
Marshwalker (all the time)
And maybe Vulkoor's Might until I can start replacing with the sora kell gear

Then farm invaders, necro and lordsmarch for the mace, shield and sora kell set

then on to demon sand and giant hold for the torc (+ a few other things I always go after when I'm there: the roc or zephyr cloak, the gloves and spell storing ring) and the elfcraft armor and upgrades - by then i should be good and burnt.

I'll have to make a new plan for heavy fort - I usually get nightforge at lvl 9 and just leave it there, but the neck slot seems to be in demand on a caster... any alternatives?
Thanks a bunch :)

Nodoze
05-05-2014, 11:32 PM
Whoa ...
I'll have to make a new plan for heavy fort - I usually get nightforge at lvl 9 and just leave it there, but the neck slot seems to be in demand on a caster... any alternatives?
Thanks a bunch :)EllisDee37 is way deserving of a whoa as he is a fountain of info... He likely has better ideas but just in case you have a spare blue slot you can slot Heavy Fort at levels 8+ until you find a better option...

MacRighteous
05-06-2014, 12:38 AM
EllisDee37 is way deserving of a whoa as he is a fountain of info... <snip>


No doubt, after re-reading his post, I found a hidden nugget of wisdom that may be obvious to most - but not to me until after I read it.



<snip>

Both weapons are great caster cleric weapons in addition to using wisdom for attack and damage, which really helps out when you feel the urge to swing a weapon. (Like, say, when your blade barrier leaves a mob slivered.)



This was happening to me quite a bit at Delera's - Holy Smite and the lesser ray SLA was slivering a bunch of the skellies and after burning spell points on a few hit points a couple of times, (or ignoring them - which is irritating) I starting finishing them off with the ghosty quest weapon and thought - there's got to be a better way!
And there is - Wisdom for attack and dam mod is awesome... It hadn't occurred to me to look for weapons that play to other stats. Now I see why the Sora Kell gear is viable on a non melee toon - and why i shouldn't completely ignore melee modifiers and bonuses. A few combat stats and a nifty club doesn't make me a fighter, but if I got to swing at somethings, I might as well be buffed.

I have much to learn.


I always select gear that has a aug slot over other gear (all other things being equal) but I seldom use them - lol
I never seem to get the ones I want and it just seems a hassle - I try to find the must haves hard coded. :)

MacR

EllisDee37
05-06-2014, 02:11 PM
just in case you have a spare blue slot you can slot Heavy Fort at levels 8+ until you find a better option...Yeah, blue slots are a great choice for heavy fort.

Looking over my gear plan for this character, it looks like I equipped a crafted heavy fort ring @ 7 (with masterful) and left it there until epic levels. This is an old gear plan, though, from when I took a wizard level to swing away with carnifex using master's touch. In other words, pre-enhancement pass.

I did not wear the sora kell set on that life, instead opting for cove hats with superior false life and concentration +15. If I were to re-do the gear plan for this now pure caster cleric, the ML14 list would probably look something like:

Head: Teraza's Perfect Sight
Eyes: FF of Concentration (Master's Gift)
Neck: Nightforge Gorget (Vitality +20) - minos on your neck!
Back: Cloak of Invisibility (Resistance +4)
Wrist: Nightforge Armbands (Spell Points)
Hand: Maenya's Iron Fist
Waist: Health (Heavy Fort)
Feet: Boots of the Mire
Ring: Ring of the Mire
Ring: Katra's Razor Wit
Trinket: Efficient Maximize II of Kinetic Lore V
Body: Blue Dragonplate
Mainhand: Scepter of Healing
Offhand: Dalorent's Seal

The only hardship in terms of crafting is being able to craft flexible feather fall, but it's fine to just use a FF swap as needed.

A lot of these choices are "good" instead of "perfect," such as getting by with just improved false life and +75 spell points with the armbands instead of trying to fit in both greater false life (expensive to craft) and archmagi. I'll typically grab an archmagi item to use as a shrine swap for buffs, then swap it out after buffs are done. This gives the benefit of archmagi without costing a gear slot. (It's sub-optimal in that I normally use a cove trinket + large guild augment for +130 shrine swap mana, allowing me to keep archmagi equipped with no penalty.)

My actual gear plan will look different because my cleric has two greensteel accessories (one cleansed) he equips at 11 and leaves on forever. Likely I'd ditch sora kell to make room, but the basic concept is the same.

Cardtrick
05-06-2014, 03:32 PM
I'll have to make a new plan for heavy fort - I usually get nightforge at lvl 9 and just leave it there, but the neck slot seems to be in demand on a caster... any alternatives?
Thanks a bunch :)

My favorite piece of mid-level twink gear is a set of ML13 Ethereal Bracers (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ethereal_Bracers). They have a green slot and a colorless slot. I put Heavy Fortification in the green slot and +20 Vitality in the colorless slot. They basically replace the old Minos, except that they also grant ethereal (no need for ghost touch weapons) and a stacking +1 insight bonus to saves. And they sit in the wrist slot, which I find a lot less use for than the head slot.

MacRighteous
05-06-2014, 10:39 PM
Thanks guys - guess I'm gonna have to learn to /augment - It's something I've largely ignored.

Nodoze
05-09-2014, 08:36 PM
I am glad I subscribed to this thread. That is one thing I like about DDO is that even playing off and on (mostly on) since 2006 I still learn something new all the time in DDO as the combinations are near endless. Even if there are games with better graphics or less bugs I think the character diversity & complexity as well as the active combat keep me engaged...

MacRighteous, That great attitude and thirst to learn will carry your far. I hope you have many fun quests ahead of you on this and any other characters you work on.

Ellisdee, +1 Thanks for all the time you spend giving such good & helpful detail !

CardTrick, That is a very nice tip! I could use that on many toons... I just wish that could be done on an un-bound item (or at least a BTA item)... I guess BTA would be fine for most people but since I 6box up to 6 accounts when my 5 kids are not on with me even BTA would't go as far as I would like)... +1 to you also if I could but evidently I have to spread it around more first..

MacRighteous
05-09-2014, 10:03 PM
I am glad I subscribed to this thread. That is one thing I like about DDO is that even playing off and on (mostly on) since 2006 I still learn something new all the time in DDO as the combinations are near endless. Even if there are games with better graphics or less bugs I think the character diversity & complexity as well as the active combat keep me engaged...

MacRighteous, That great attitude and thirst to learn will carry your far. I hope you have many fun quests ahead of you on this and any other characters you work on.

Ellisdee, +1 Thanks for all the time you spend giving such good & helpful detail !

CardTrick, That is a very nice tip! I could use that on many toons... I just wish that could be done on an un-bound item (or at least a BTA item)... I guess BTA would be fine for most people but since I 6box up to 6 accounts when my 5 kids are not on with me even BTA would't go as far as I would like)... +1 to you also if I could but evidently I have to spread it around more first..

/signed

Hey Nodoze - are you the same Nodoze that frequents the ISboxer forums occasionally and also a LOTRO boxer? My screen name there (ISB) is Wanderlust and I think I still use one of your configurations for my LOTRO box teams, or maybe we just talked a lot about boxing DDO? Anyways... thanks for the kind words, you Sir, are also worthy of a +1 and a whoa.

Take care


EDIT: BTW Ellisdee, I just noticed that I also play your Evasion Paladin (favorite toon evar) and Tempest Trapmonkey builds... So yeah - what Nodoze said squared. You and other knowledgeable players like CardTrick and SirValentine sharing your experience with anyone who has eyeballs is just awesome and I appreciate it.

MacR

EllisDee37
05-09-2014, 10:42 PM
My favorite piece of mid-level twink gear is a set of ML13 Ethereal Bracers (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ethereal_Bracers). They have a green slot and a colorless slot. I put Heavy Fortification in the green slot and +20 Vitality in the colorless slot. They basically replace the old Minos, except that they also grant ethereal (no need for ghost touch weapons) and a stacking +1 insight bonus to saves. And they sit in the wrist slot, which I find a lot less use for than the head slot.They are definitely nice, but I usually have ghostly by level 12 with the cloak of invisibility, which I don't equip until I can slot +4 resistance into it. (ML12) If you opt for heavy fort instead of resistance you can have ghostly by level 9.

I like putting blurry in the bracer slot, either with greensteel smoke bracers or with the ML3 (!) bracers of wind. It's almost comical that you can get blurry by level 3, but hey, I'm not complaining.

Nodoze
05-10-2014, 12:02 AM
/signed

Hey Nodoze - are you the same Nodoze that frequents the ISboxer forums occasionally and also a LOTRO boxer? My screen name there (ISB) is Wanderlust and I think I still use one of your configurations for my LOTRO box teams, or maybe we just talked a lot about boxing DDO? Anyways... thanks for the kind words, you Sir, are also worthy of a +1 and a whoa.

Take care


EDIT: BTW Ellisdee, I just noticed that I also play your Evasion Paladin (favorite toon evar) and Tempest Trapmonkey builds... So yeah - what Nodoze said squared. You and other knowledgeable players like CardTrick and SirValentine sharing your experience with anyone who has eyeballs is just awesome and I appreciate it.

MacRYes that is me and I recognize your sign-on name when you mentioned it. I have at least boxed DDO, NeverWinter, WoW, SWTOR, LoTRO, Diablo (those are the ones that come to mind but I am tired and heading to bed)... I like the challenge of coding the keybinds and getting a party/raid to work together from one keyboard and I like that I can make a party of 4-6 (depending on the game) for me and my kids and keep the entire group together XP wise... I like the challenge playing them all at once when solo and mixing in 1 or more kids when I can... It is ironic that the game I like the most is DDO and of all the games it is the least multi-box friendly with no auto-follow...

I also like these forums the most because of gents/ladies on them... In addition to those we have mentioned above others come to mind (CThru, Unbongw, Ancient, Ron, Singular, SigT, etc and even teh Troll shares his nuggets of wisdom in a way that often makes me laugh)... Too many folk to list but you get the idea. Between EDs/Enhancements/splits/stats/gear/etc the combinations & permutations are endless and sometimes I think I like the forums & the Planner tool even more than actually playing as I like their creativity and trying to understand how their builds work and then they give me new ideas to try... Often it is the flavor ones I like the most.

Anyway, been a long week of travel and finally able to get back to my personal PC after getting home and putting everyone to bed but too tired to do much more. Night all and thanks for all the great ideas...

pappo
05-18-2014, 07:00 PM
The only evocation spells to focus on are blade barrier and implosion. I prefer the necro spells you outlined.

If by endgame you mean the highest level content on epic elite, DC casting on a cleric likely won't work. For that, your best best is to go evocation specced and shoot for 70 evo DC.

I just took lvl 11 and cannot thank you enough for this build. I did a TR from a 16Cleric/4Ftr and this seems to do more damage than my previous life. Spamming light spells from lvl 1 - 10 has been awesome and my guildies were amazed at my turns in the undead quests... Delera's, Necro 1 etc..

Do I completely stop using light spells now? I still have searing light, but not as an SLA.
What did your spell list look like after the enhancement change at level 11 ? I took Blade barrier/Greater Command and also have enervation, slay living, blindness, and contagion.

+1 again for this build

Battlehealzu on Khyber

EllisDee37
05-18-2014, 09:44 PM
You don't have to completely abandon the light spells, but for the most part your damage dealing will be with blade barrier and insta-kills. You should also be pretty effective with Greater Command against melee types.

Here's a typical example from my last cleric life, running in a pug through Gianthold elites for bravery:

You round the corner and come across a group of 3-4 melee mobs with two hobgoblin clerics behind them. Greater Command the three melee mobs (who are conveniently close together and have terrible will saves) then immediately jump over/past them (your party members can kill them) to get to the clerics. While in mid-air you destruct the first cleric, then close the remaining distance to slay living the second.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

In a nutshell, what I would do is look for groups of at least 3 melees to greater command while also scanning for any/all casters, who would get destructed with extreme prejudice. If there's more than one enemy caster, well, hey, we're not a lowly wizard, we have two fingers of death. hehheh.

That's for grouping. For solo, I would use blade barrier instead of greater command to slice and dice the melee while dealing with casters the same way.

pappo
05-19-2014, 03:22 PM
You don't have to completely abandon the light spells, but for the most part your damage dealing will be with blade barrier and insta-kills. You should also be pretty effective with Greater Command against melee types.

Ok, thanks EllisDee37. I took my Necro Cleric on a Elite Shanti - Kor run. I know it was not at my level but just a test run. I did not use any light spells. I used enervation, contagion (blindness one), and then slay living. I used BB for big mobs.
The contagion worked from a long distance so it was great for casters. I can't wait for destruction.

I am having a lot of fun with this build, especially now that I got burst.

Finn42
09-12-2014, 02:09 AM
EllisDee37, thanks for this post been very helpful, well written and informative.

My question is as follows:
once I switch over to the dark side, what +spell school weapons do I want to use?
before the switch I was running + light Spell power, and + light crit chance, + heal sp + heal crit chance.

I would think that I would want a +spell Penetration now, but I have no idea what I would want for the other '3 slots'?
advice would be appreciated, thanks :)
(I don't know how to make my BB do more damage, I would think the Force SP, as that also says untyped??)

Thanks, Finn.

EllisDee37
09-12-2014, 06:45 AM
once I switch over to the dark side, what +spell school weapons do I want to use?If you mean which spell power to select from the Divine Disciple tree, go with Universal on all counts. (Spell Power and Spell Critical, all tiers you take.)

Universal is best for the darkside because you get actual use out of three spell power types:

Negative (necrotic ray)
Force (blade barrier)
Positive (healing yourself and others)

Finn42
09-13-2014, 01:45 PM
If you mean which spell power to select from the Divine Disciple tree, go with Universal on all counts. (Spell Power and Spell Critical, all tiers you take.)

Universal is best for the darkside because you get actual use out of three spell power types:

Negative (necrotic ray)
Force (blade barrier)
Positive (healing yourself and others)

sort of helpful, but was more asking about the items held in hands.
Meaning, I use 2 weapons in my hands, and that gives me 4 attributes to the weapons to select from.
So what type on weapons/off hands(shield?) would this build benefit from the most once going darkside?
thanks, finn.

EllisDee37
09-13-2014, 05:28 PM
sort of helpful, but was more asking about the items held in hands.
Meaning, I use 2 weapons in my hands, and that gives me 4 attributes to the weapons to select from.
So what type on weapons/off hands(shield?) would this build benefit from the most once going darkside?
thanks, finn.Oh, gotcha. Yeah, you even explicitly said "weapons." Not sure how I missed that.

I like to use Scepter of Healing and Dalorent's Seal, slotting nullification in one and impulse in the other. That's not optimal in terms of giving no void lore, but I craft void lore on a trinket in the meantime. Then at 17 the yummy Darkstorm Helm.

Caprice
09-15-2014, 04:57 PM
In more general term the specific "item labels" of interest are probably going to be:

"Nullification" prefix = Negative Spellpower
"(of) Void Lore" suffix = Negative Critical chance
"Impulse" prefix = Force, Physical, and Untyped damage Spellpower
"(of) Kinetic Lore" suffix = Force, Physical, and Untyped damage Critical chance
"Devotion" prefix = Positive Spellpower
"(of) Healing Lore" suffix = Positive Spellpower
"Potency" prefix = Universal Spellpower

There are also items for increasing the DCs of your spells of a particular school. The effect when listed on the description of an item will say "<school> Focus", but on the actual name of a random item it will just be labeled with the school name. For instance bracers that add +1 DC to your Necromancy spells like Enervation and Slay Living will be named "Necromancy Bracers of <whatever else they happen to do>", and when you mouseover the item it will list it as having "Necromancy Focus". The main ones you might be interested in are:

"Necromancy" (Focus) = Necromancy DCs (good for most of your negative & instant kill spells)
"Evocation" (Focus) = Evocation DCs (good for Blade Barrier, and those Light side spells you don't use anymore)
'Enchantment" (Focus) = Enchantment DCs (good for Greater Command)

If you are doing most of your damage with are Blade Barrier kiting, then an "Impulse of Kinetic Lore" item will be your primary choice since BB counts as an "slashing/untyped" damage spell. Unfortunately Impulse & Kinetic Lore are both hard to find except on random loot weapon drops so I would suggest looking through the AH and "pawn" NPC vendors to see if you can find anything useful. Evocation is also useful for increasing BB's DC so enemies will save less.

Devotion and Nullification can be found on quite a few non-weapon items (e.g. see this list for Devotion (http://ddowiki.com/page/Devotion)), and Devotion comes on a few named shields. Impulse seems to be rarer to get except on random loot weapon drops. Lores are generally also harder to find on non-weapon items. Also note that you can find augments that increase spellpower or DCs, but I am not aware of any for increasing spell critical chance. CubicleNinja offers a decent item search utility (http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/Default.aspx) that you can use to find named items which supply appropriate bonuses by searching on the above terms.

I don't know if it is still the case, but there used to be a case where bracers would spawn with two sets of DC bonuses, but only one would be listed. For instance you might find random bracers called "Conjuration Bracers" that actually have both Conjuration Focus and Necromancy Focus. It is worth mousing over such bracers to see if there is a concealed extra bonus.

Technically "Combustion"/"Fire Lore" may be of some use to you too for Flamestrike and Fire Storm, but I have never found them to be effective enough to really bother with them extensively. You can also use Cure and Heal to do damage to the undead, and specifically for using the Heal spell this way you might consider equipping a Conjuration Focus item to improve your DC since they can save against it for half damage.

Doutrinador
12-15-2014, 04:24 PM
Since you put a lot of point into Intel, why not take Insightful Reflexes?

EllisDee37
12-15-2014, 05:37 PM
Since you put a lot of point into Intel, why not take Insightful Reflexes?Neither intelligence nor dexterity are invested in outside of things you can do the same for both, like use tomes, slot a stat augment, etc... So the only difference between them is that intelligence starts out six points higher, which translates into a difference of 3 mod.

+3 reflex saves isn't worth a feat since your reflex saves won't be great either way.

Doutrinador
12-16-2014, 07:35 AM
Neither intelligence nor dexterity are invested in outside of things you can do the same for both, like use tomes, slot a stat augment, etc... So the only difference between them is that intelligence starts out six points higher, which translates into a difference of 3 mod.

+3 reflex saves isn't worth a feat since your reflex saves won't be great either way.

Thx for the reply, one more question: you said that the framework of this build works fine for an evo build instead of necro. But what would be a better light nuker: sun elf 18 FVS/ 2 cleric or sun elf 20 cleric?

EllisDee37
12-16-2014, 08:47 AM
Thx for the reply, one more question: you said that the framework of this build works fine for an evo build instead of necro. But what would be a better light nuker: sun elf 18 FVS/ 2 cleric or sun elf 20 cleric?Not sure, to be honest, since I don't know FVS very well.

Caprice
12-16-2014, 03:11 PM
Thx for the reply, one more question: you said that the framework of this build works fine for an evo build instead of necro. But what would be a better light nuker: sun elf 18 FVS/ 2 cleric or sun elf 20 cleric?
Of your two choices I would pick pure Cleric but that may be a personal bias. I was running a Cleric 18/FvS 2 build (the reverse of your stated) a few months ago and decided that I would have rather stayed pure Cleric; SP is somewhat of a concern but I felt that the wider variety of spells from the Divine Disciple capstone would have made me stronger overall. I ended up preferring Radiant Servant for my tier 5 since the survivability increase was important to how I was playing, but I did sacrifice DPS for it compared to a more nuking focused version. The FvS is better for Blade Barrier kiting but that's not what you've asked for (although maybe you'd prefer it).

I am thinking that the min-max Light nuker is a Cleric 15 / Favored Soul 5, heavily invested into the Light side of Divine Disciple but taking the Angel of Vengeance tier 5 enhancements. Cleric gets more Light spells than Favored Soul after spending points in Divine Discple, and the SLAs are a major perk and SP savings - the free metamagic use on SLAs compensates for the SP pool size difference between the classes. Many Light spells have a fairly low maximum caster level (MCL 10 or 15) so you aren't losing too much by splashing, especially since FvS grants more CL/MCL bonuses than Cleric (+3 for tier 5 Angel of Vengeance vs +1 for Divine Disciple) so several bread & butter nukes are actually better on the 15/5 than on a pure Cleric. You keep level 8 spells (& the commensurate Heightened DCs are only -1 DC), get the flexible spell list of a Cleric, can combine the spellpower and critical enhancements from the two classes, get FvS temporary spell points on critical casts (FvS2), and your Shield of Condemnation (FvS3) can stack to up to +50% Light damage done to enemies that hit you, which is a solid DPS boost for when you most need it (i.e. bosses & champions) if you can survive the hits. But maybe I am overlooking something that would torpedo that idea.

Doutrinador
12-16-2014, 06:36 PM
Of your two choices I would pick pure Cleric but that may be a personal bias. I was running a Cleric 18/FvS 2 build (the reverse of your stated) a few months ago and decided that I would have rather stayed pure Cleric; SP is somewhat of a concern but I felt that the wider variety of spells from the Divine Disciple capstone would have made me stronger overall. I ended up preferring Radiant Servant for my tier 5 since the survivability increase was important to how I was playing, but I did sacrifice DPS for it compared to a more nuking focused version. The FvS is better for Blade Barrier kiting but that's not what you've asked for (although maybe you'd prefer it).

I am thinking that the min-max Light nuker is a Cleric 15 / Favored Soul 5, heavily invested into the Light side of Divine Disciple but taking the Angel of Vengeance tier 5 enhancements. Cleric gets more Light spells than Favored Soul after spending points in Divine Discple, and the SLAs are a major perk and SP savings - the free metamagic use on SLAs compensates for the SP pool size difference between the classes. Many Light spells have a fairly low maximum caster level (MCL 10 or 15) so you aren't losing too much by splashing, especially since FvS grants more CL/MCL bonuses than Cleric (+3 for tier 5 Angel of Vengeance vs +1 for Divine Disciple) so several bread & butter nukes are actually better on the 15/5 than on a pure Cleric. You keep level 8 spells (& the commensurate Heightened DCs are only -1 DC), get the flexible spell list of a Cleric, can combine the spellpower and critical enhancements from the two classes, get FvS temporary spell points on critical casts (FvS2), and your Shield of Condemnation (FvS3) can stack to up to +50% Light damage done to enemies that hit you, which is a solid DPS boost for when you most need it (i.e. bosses & champions) if you can survive the hits. But maybe I am overlooking something that would torpedo that idea.

15/5 FVS would be a fun build to play, but its i am afraid that are not sufficient ap to spend in all good things (sun elf tree, DD, AOV, RS).

Caprice
12-17-2014, 09:15 AM
15/5 FVS would be a fun build to play, but its i am afraid that are not sufficient ap to spend in all good things (sun elf tree, DD, AOV, RS).
That's the way it is these days, and a big part of building characters. You can fit in a lot still. 35 AP in AoV and 32 in DD gets you everything key, which leaves 13 AP left over to spend elsewhere or go for optional items in those trees. I'd probably go 11 AP into RS for Positive Energy Burst but 6 AP into WP gives +10 Light & Fire spellpower and DR5/- which is rather nice especially in heroic levels. I agree that it would be nice to go 16 AP into ML to get the full +30 Light spellpower from Light of the Sun God or 19 AP for that plus Feywild Tap, but I don't see that as make or break.

Sanjinn
12-27-2014, 05:30 PM
I am looking to LR my level 11 Dwarf that I created way, way back when I first started playing. He was my second character I ever made so I would like to make him work. He is a 28 point build but I will change that to 32 with the LR. I could just start a new human at level 7 but I want to put this guy to use and not waste his faction rep I earned. So any and all suggestions on what to drop/change/adjust to make this build work with the Dwarf would be awesome. I duo with my wife and this build looks like it would be very fun to play with her Paladin we have just came back to DDO after an multi year extended break from the game.

Thanks in advance for any responses and suggestions.

EllisDee37
12-27-2014, 06:06 PM
any and all suggestions on what to drop/change/adjust to make this build work with the Dwarf would be awesome.I think I would do the following with the feats:

1 : Maximize Spell
1C: Follower of the Sovereign Host
3 : Empower Spell (becomes Empower Healing @ 11)
6 : Quicken Spell
6C: Unyielding Sovereignty
9 : Spell Penetration
12 : Heighten Spell
15 : Spell Focus: Necromancy
18 : Greater Spell Penetration
21E: Epic Spell Penetration
24E: Enlarge Spell
26E: Toughness
27E: Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
28E: Guardian Angel

In the listed feat exchange at level 10-11, instead of swapping empower to spell pen you swap empower to empower healing.

For skills, I'd probably just drop Heal and do everything else essentially the same, or as close to the same as it ends up.

Enhancements would stay the same except for 5 AP spent in the human tree. Those can go wherever you like.

Sanjinn
12-27-2014, 10:41 PM
I think I would do the following with the feats:

1 : Maximize Spell
1C: Follower of the Sovereign Host
3 : Empower Spell (becomes Empower Healing @ 11)
6 : Quicken Spell
6C: Unyielding Sovereignty
9 : Spell Penetration
12 : Heighten Spell
15 : Spell Focus: Necromancy
18 : Greater Spell Penetration
21E: Epic Spell Penetration
24E: Enlarge Spell
26E: Toughness
27E: Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
28E: Guardian Angel

In the listed feat exchange at level 10-11, instead of swapping empower to spell pen you swap empower to empower healing.

For skills, I'd probably just drop Heal and do everything else essentially the same, or as close to the same as it ends up.

Enhancements would stay the same except for 5 AP spent in the human tree. Those can go wherever you like.

Thank you! I was at a loss with what to drop and rearrange. I had forgot that I had used a set of +2 tomes on him so that was a nice surprise seeing a +2 to all his stats. That let me put a few points back into heal which is nice. Thanks again.

Zachski
01-05-2015, 06:52 AM
This build inspired me to try an "evil cultist" flavor build of sorts with a fresh Cleric using this build - except going Dark Disciple from the beginning instead of later.

The best part about it is, if it ends up not working, it's just an enhancement reset away to become a light disciple and abuse light SLAs.

It is kinda BS that they used Necrotic Bolt for one of the DD dark SLAs, considering you can't apply any metamagics to it. I hope they change that eventually.

EllisDee37
01-05-2015, 08:15 AM
This build inspired me to try an "evil cultist" flavor build of sorts with a fresh Cleric using this build - except going Dark Disciple from the beginning instead of later.

The best part about it is, if it ends up not working, it's just an enhancement reset away to become a light disciple and abuse light SLAs.Very cool.

Post an update here after you've given it a try. I'm kind of curious, but don't think I could give up the tasty tasty light SLAs.

Zachski
01-10-2015, 12:46 AM
I'm gonna say that Chill Touch is actually a superior SLA to Nimbus, simply because it actually gets new dice each level up until level 5. Which means that you'll be doing Empowered/Maximized 5d3+15 damage, in addition to any negative spellpower you'll have.

Alternate between the Inflict spells and Chill Touch to churn out some serious negative energy damage. Especially when you get to level 3, then 5, where you get better negative energy spells.

Its weakness is undead. If you have a decent Charisma score, or perhaps a Sacred item, they're a bit easier to handle, since you can stun them or outright eradicate them.

That being said, I imagine that when you get Searing Light as a Light Cleric is where you begin to literally outshine the Dark Cleric. But then when you get Negative Energy Burst, that's when you become an awesome force of darkness again.

It goes without saying that if you can buddy up with a Palemaster, they will LOVE you.

I'm trying to avoid casting Good spells as an Evil Cultist as well (I'm fairly certain healing spells don't count as Good, thankfully). Which unfortunately means no Protection from Evil. Since that spell specifically has "Good" as a component. Blah.

ETA:

If you don't mind using good alignment magic as a Dark Cleric, though, that pretty much takes care of your undead problem right there. Deific Vengeance, for example, which scales fantastically against undead enemies. And since Divine Disciple's negative energy bonuses also boost alignment spellpower, well, you're pretty much set. Granted, if you want to empower/maximize it, you gotta deal with the fact that it's not an SLA. But otherwise, for the average player, it's gold.

Finn42
02-09-2015, 03:48 PM
I have played this build, so far lv 18 - and LOVING it - ty.

1)
question, what spells do you use maximize and heighten for? (ignoring healing ones as I usually double hotbar, one with all meta magics and one with just empowered healing)

using slay living, destruction, blade barrier, necro ray, harm - those are my main kill/dmg dealers.

2)
additionally, the advice to get
items like
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Scepter_of_Healing
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Dalorent%27s_Seal
and others that said:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Darkstorm_Helm
http://ddowiki.com/page/Gauntlets_of_Eternity

are there any more items like this that greatly help this build leveling ?
Not looking for a BiS list, but more of just a "get this scepter and you'll use it from 10->18 most likely" type thing.

any enhancement updates with harper tree options, or newest patch ?

thanks, Finn.

EllisDee37
02-09-2015, 06:07 PM
are there any more items like this that greatly help this build leveling ?
Not looking for a BiS list, but more of just a "get this scepter and you'll use it from 10->18 most likely" type thing.You listed the core, key items. A couple others to keep in mind are Forgotten Light (if you're good-aligned or can reach the UMD requirement) as an upgrade to Scepter of Healing. It also uses wisdom for attack and damage in addition to giving useful spell power. The old best-in-slot armor was the blue dragonscale line, but changes to how arcane lore work make those moderately useful at best. Possibly the druid's deep armor might be worth considering.


any enhancement updates with harper tree options, or newest patch ?Nothing has struck my fancy so far. I'm always keeping an eye out for updates that impact the build, but so far no changes seem warranted.

pappo
02-09-2015, 06:49 PM
You listed the core, key items. A couple others to keep in mind are Forgotten Light (if you're good-aligned or can reach the UMD requirement) as an upgrade to Scepter of Healing. It also uses wisdom for attack and damage in addition to giving useful spell power. The old best-in-slot armor was the blue dragonscale line, but changes to how arcane lore work make those moderately useful at best. Possibly the druid's deep armor might be worth considering.

Nothing has struck my fancy so far. I'm always keeping an eye out for updates that impact the build, but so far no changes seem warranted.

I have been running your Necro Cleric and am now up to level 23. I am hitting the Necrotic Ray for ~700 and Word of Balance hits for 400-500 so those are good. The Slay Living doesn't seem to land at all anymore. Greater Command is being saved most of the time.

What spells do you use in Epics. I remember a post where you said you Greater Command the mobs and then jump over and Slay Living or Destruct the casters. This seems to not be landing as much anymore.

Can you tell me your tactics in Epic Elite quests ?

Thanks though. This has been a lot of fun to play.

ps: I am on second life as a cleric.

EllisDee37
02-09-2015, 06:56 PM
Can you tell me your tactics in Epic Elite quests ?I don't run Epic Elite. SirValentine runs EE on a similar cleric build; check out his Budstein (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433397-Budstein) thread.

SirValentine
02-10-2015, 03:52 AM
The Slay Living doesn't seem to land at all anymore. Greater Command is being saved most of the time.

What spells do you use in Epics. I remember a post where you said you Greater Command the mobs and then jump over and Slay Living or Destruct the casters. This seems to not be landing as much anymore.

Can you tell me your tactics in Epic Elite quests ?


Getting workable DCs for Epic Hard shouldn't be too difficult, and in the lower-level EEs, but it takes a lot of investment to get good DCs for higher-level Epic Elite quests. What are your Enchantment & Necromancy DCs sitting at, and in what content are you not landing them?

I have a Wisdom & DC breakdown (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433397-Budstein?p=5301320&viewfull=1#post5301320) for my Cleric, to maybe give you an idea of things you might do to get higher DCs.

As for tactics, Destruction & Slay Living are my bread-and-butter trash killers, with the occasional Implosion & Mass Frog thrown in. Also, against Undead, Undeath to Death.

I do use Greater Command, either to leave mobs CCed for melees in the party to kill while I go elsewhere, or specifically against EE Storm Horns high-Fortitude-save mobs like Orcs & Giants, which I can't reliably kill without debuffing first. Cause Fear & Necrotic Ray are my two cheapest debuffs, have no save, and are the same school as Destruction so the Deific Diadem bonus kicks in.

Orange-named mobs: level drain them. Optionally also CCing them, with Greater Command or, if applicable, Hold Person. If it's off timer and the mob does not have Spell Resistance, Mass Frog works on them.

Red-named mobs: semi-pike while the rest of the party kills them. Throw Divine Healing on the rest of the party, use Vile Blasphemy & other clickies, and pretend I'm contributing by throwing Divine Wrath, my Past Life Magic Missiles, Avenging Light & Necrotic Ray. That's just me, though; some Clerics have more of a nuking focus than I do.

SirValentine
02-10-2015, 04:06 AM
question, what spells do you use maximize and heighten for? (ignoring healing ones as I usually double hotbar, one with all meta magics and one with just empowered healing)


I'd suggest using Heighten on any and all of your crowd control & instakill spells you can. E.g.:
Hold Person
Holy Smite
Slay Living
Greater Command
Undeath to Death
Cometfall
Destruction
Symbol of Pain/Persuasion/Stunning

For Maximize, it depends a lot. How much SP do you have left, and how many HPs does the enemy have? Maximize can eat through SP fast if you're not careful. For several spells, I keep both un-meta-ed and fully-meta-ed versions.

SirValentine
02-10-2015, 04:11 AM
are there any more items like this that greatly help this build leveling ?
Not looking for a BiS list, but more of just a "get this scepter and you'll use it from 10->18 most likely" type thing.


Hmm...how about:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Shadowsight_(Level_15)
Good for levels 15-21 or so at least.

pappo
02-10-2015, 08:09 AM
Getting workable DCs for Epic Hard shouldn't be too difficult, and in the lower-level EEs, but it takes a lot of investment to get good DCs for higher-level Epic Elite quests. What are your Enchantment & Necromancy DCs sitting at, and in what content are you not landing them?

I have a Wisdom & DC breakdown (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433397-Budstein?p=5301320&viewfull=1#post5301320) for my Cleric, to maybe give you an idea of things you might do to get higher DCs.

As for tactics, Destruction & Slay Living are my bread-and-butter trash killers, with the occasional Implosion & Mass Frog thrown in. Also, against Undead, Undeath to Death.

I do use Greater Command, either to leave mobs CCed for melees in the party to kill while I go elsewhere, or specifically against EE Storm Horns high-Fortitude-save mobs like Orcs & Giants, which I can't reliably kill without debuffing first. Cause Fear & Necrotic Ray are my two cheapest debuffs, have no save, and are the same school as Destruction so the Deific Diadem bonus kicks in.

Orange-named mobs: level drain them. Optionally also CCing them, with Greater Command or, if applicable, Hold Person. If it's off timer and the mob does not have Spell Resistance, Mass Frog works on them.

Red-named mobs: semi-pike while the rest of the party kills them. Throw Divine Healing on the rest of the party, use Vile Blasphemy & other clickies, and pretend I'm contributing by throwing Divine Wrath, my Past Life Magic Missiles, Avenging Light & Necrotic Ray. That's just me, though; some Clerics have more of a nuking focus than I do.

Thanks for the reply.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the build. I just see the numbers and results you post and wish I was there. I forget that there are many reasons why I am not doing that DPS.

My reasons I am not doing your DPS at level 23 are:

1. WISDOM = Base 23 + Tome +6 + Feats and Enh +7 + Items/Effects 11 = 47
2. NOT Completionist
3. Nowhere near your gear. The only item I have from one of your early lists is Symbol of Shining Sun necklace, Breastplate of Shining Sun, Health +8 Dodge 6% bracers, Signet of Shining Sun Ring 1, Skirmisher's Gloves Strength +8
4. Necro DC only 41
5. Enchantment DC 38
6. Where was it not landing. Many places. One I can recall was the Lizard Shamans in 3 barrel cove Epics Garls Tomb

Like I said, after reviewing my stats, I am not even close to the DC's you show. Gear, pots, completionist, and 5 more Epic levels are needed at minimum.
Still a fun build. I will just have to decline when my guildies offer Epic Elites... lol

Regards

EllisDee37
02-10-2015, 11:02 AM
1. WISDOM = Base 23 + Tome +6 + Feats and Enh +7 + Items/Effects 11 = 47I can't tell if you have +6 from exalted angel. If not, that's a good place to start.

SirValentine
02-10-2015, 02:45 PM
...at level 23...


Level in Epic does make a fairly big difference, mostly due to gear, but also partly level-ups & Epic feats.



Gear, pots, completionist, and 5 more Epic levels are needed at minimum.
Still a fun build. I will just have to decline when my guildies offer Epic Elites... lol


I would not ever tell anyone they need to get Completionist. It's a huge time investment for a (nice, but) relatively small bonus. I don't regret doing it myself, but it's in no way required.

If you haven't and can, though, 1 Wizard past life is a pretty good effort-reward ratio.

pappo
02-11-2015, 11:26 AM
I can't tell if you have +6 from exalted angel. If not, that's a good place to start.

Right now my +6 is from a +5 to +6 upgrade tome from the Auction House.
The Khyber server is down right now, but when it is up I will check to see where I am at in the EA Destiny.

Update: I checked and I only have 6 points in Exalted at this time. I had started out in Unyielding Sentinel for some reason I cannot remember. Probably worried about CON. I will keep working on EA full time now and pick up more WIS.
Thanks for all your help.

pappo
02-14-2015, 06:31 PM
I can't tell if you have +6 from exalted angel. If not, that's a good place to start.

I made lvl 24 now and have 15 points in Exalted Angel. My WIS stat now is 52, and Necro DC is 47 and Evocation DC is 41. My necrotic ray has had some crits up to 1700.
Slay living hits Gianthold Epic giants for 500.

Do any of your spells, in Epics, give an insta-kill like slay living did in heroics ? I miss that "one-shot" death

I also picked up the Staff of the Necromancer ( http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Staff_of_the_Necromancer ) which helped the Necro a lot.

EllisDee37
02-15-2015, 02:28 PM
I made lvl 24 now and have 15 points in Exalted Angel. My WIS stat now is 52, and Necro DC is 47 and Evocation DC is 41. My necrotic ray has had some crits up to 1700.
Slay living hits Gianthold Epic giants for 500.

Do any of your spells, in Epics, give an insta-kill like slay living did in heroics ? I miss that "one-shot" death

I also picked up the Staff of the Necromancer ( http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Staff_of_the_Necromancer ) which helped the Necro a lot.For comparison, my guy on live -- who I do not consider EE capable -- has 57 wisdom, 56 necro DC, and 49 evo DC at level 25.

pappo
02-15-2015, 08:38 PM
For comparison, my guy on live -- who I do not consider EE capable -- has 57 wisdom, 56 necro DC, and 49 evo DC at level 25.

Do any of your spells, in Epics, give an insta-kill like slay living did in heroics ? I miss that "one-shot" death.
I was running an EE GH and another Evo cleric was landing Implosion insta-kills quite often. Mine did good damage, but not insta-kill.

EllisDee37
02-15-2015, 11:45 PM
Do any of your spells, in Epics, give an insta-kill like slay living did in heroics ? I miss that "one-shot" death.
I was running an EE GH and another Evo cleric was landing Implosion insta-kills quite often. Mine did good damage, but not insta-kill.When you say "epics", are you talking about EE?

I've repeatedly explained that I do not run EE.

SirValentine
02-16-2015, 01:05 AM
I made lvl 24 now and have 15 points in Exalted Angel. My WIS stat now is 52, and Necro DC is 47 and Evocation DC is 41.


Sounds like you're getting close to picking up this from Exalted Angel (it's a core ability):

Transcendental Magic: Passive Bonus:+3 to the DC of all your spells.

That will make a big difference. Also, though it doesn't help you right away, eventually twisting in +3 DC from Magister School Specialist helps a lot too.



Do any of your spells, in Epics, give an insta-kill like slay living did in heroics ? I miss that "one-shot" death


Yes.



I also picked up the Staff of the Necromancer ( http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Staff_of_the_Necromancer ) which helped the Necro a lot.


That's not bad at all. However, at level 24 you can be looking for an item with +4 Necromancy DC. It falls as random loot; check your Auction House occasionally.

Also, do you have a Topaz of Greater Necromancy (ML24)? Or at least a Topaz of Necromancy (ML16)? Yellow Augments, can be purchased from vendors in Gianthold, give stacking bonus to DC.


I was running an EE GH...

Like I said, level matters. A level 28 character still gets Bravery Bonus for GH. You're effectively running 4 levels under-level in EE GH, and without a capped destiny or good gear. You'll get better results in EH or lower-level EEs while you level your destinies & improve your gear.

pappo
02-16-2015, 08:48 AM
When you say "epics", are you talking about EE?

I've repeatedly explained that I do not run EE.

Sorry I forgot that you did mention that. Didn't mean to "p" you off man. I do appreciate this build of yours.

pappo
02-16-2015, 08:57 AM
Sounds like you're getting close to picking up this from Exalted Angel (it's a core ability):

Transcendental Magic: Passive Bonus:+3 to the DC of all your spells.

That will make a big difference. Also, though it doesn't help you right away, eventually twisting in +3 DC from Magister School Specialist helps a lot too.



Thanks SirValentine - I should get the Transcendental soon. I have 15 points in the tree now. That will put my DC's into the 50's.
I will head for Magister after that.

You said "yes" on insta-kills. Which ones have you seen insta-kill on in Epics.

SirValentine
02-18-2015, 04:31 AM
You said "yes" on insta-kills. Which ones have you seen insta-kill on in Epics.


All of them. I don't cast them for the minor damage on a passed save! That would be way too much SP for way too little damage. Slay Living, Destruction, and Implosion most commonly. Undeath to Death versus Undead. Mass Frog at level 28.

Oh, wait: instakills that work great in Heroic but that don't really work in EE: Dismissal & Banishment. They don't use a normal DC, they use a special caster-level-versus-hit-dice check, and EE mobs have bloated super-high numbers of hit dice, so it doesn't really scale. I don't even bother loading them for EE. Turn Undead ends up with a similar fate.

IIVIIotha
03-31-2015, 11:30 PM
Ya mon gars.

pappo
04-03-2015, 11:00 PM
Hello Ellis

I am up to level 24 now with your build.
I wondered what destiny do you think best suits this build ? I have been running in Exalted Angel for the +3 to DC from Transcendental Magic, but I wondered what others have tried on this Necro Cleric build.

It has been a lot of fun so far.

Thanks

EllisDee37
04-03-2015, 11:13 PM
For me, it's Exalted Angel all the way.

A very strong case can be made for switching to Unyielding Sentinel while raid healing.

pappo
04-03-2015, 11:34 PM
For me, it's Exalted Angel all the way.

A very strong case can be made for switching to Unyielding Sentinel while raid healing.

Any chance of you posting an image of your EA selections, showing what you took?

EllisDee37
04-04-2015, 12:58 AM
Any chance of you posting an image of your EA selections, showing what you took?Destiny (24 AP)

Exalted Angel
Radiant Power III, Endless Faith III, Healing Power III, Wisdom
Wisdom
Wisdom
Wisdom
Leap of Faith, Wisdom
Divine Wrath, Wisdom

Twists of Fate (11 fate points)
Renewal (Tier 3 Sentinel)
School Specialist: Necromancy (Tier 2 Magister)

pappo
04-04-2015, 07:27 AM
Destiny (24 AP)

Exalted Angel
Radiant Power III, Endless Faith III, Healing Power III, Wisdom
Wisdom
Wisdom
Wisdom
Leap of Faith, Wisdom
Divine Wrath, Wisdom

Twists of Fate (11 fate points)
Renewal (Tier 3 Sentinel)
School Specialist: Necromancy (Tier 2 Magister)


Thanks EllisDee37
I appreciate you taking the time to do this.
I got to level 25 last night in 3BC Epic hard quests, and Slay Living was a big success.

EllisDee37
04-04-2015, 12:27 PM
I'm gonna say that Chill Touch is actually a superior SLA to Nimbus, simply because it actually gets new dice each level up until level 5. Which means that you'll be doing Empowered/Maximized 5d3+15 damage, in addition to any negative spellpower you'll have.I'm currently running my wizard through a sorc life on his way to completionist, and as such have been using the Shocking Grasp SLA. This is my first experience actually using a touch-range dps spell in any meaningful way.

All I have to say is, wow, touch-range dps spells ROCK at low levels. I have no doubt that you're correct about Chill Touch being better than Nimbus of Light.

Since Necrotic Bolt (the darkside SLA instead of Searing Light) can't be boosted by metamagics (right?) I still give the edge to the lightside, but I have no doubth that Chill Touch is super satisfying.

SirValentine
04-04-2015, 04:55 PM
Destiny (24 AP)

Exalted Angel

Radiant Power III, Endless Faith III, Healing Power III, Wisdom
Wisdom
Wisdom
Wisdom
Leap of Faith, Wisdom
Divine Wrath, Wisdom

Twists of Fate (11 fate points)

Renewal (Tier 3 Sentinel)
School Specialist: Necromancy (Tier 2 Magister)



For another view, for comparison, I use:

Exalted Angel

Wisdom, Avenging Light, Radiant Power II, Healing Power I, Endless Faith I
Wisdom
Wisdom, Piercing Spellcraft III
Wisdom
Wisdom, Leap of Faith
Wisdom, Divine Wrath

Twists of Fate (the following costs 11 fate points)

School Specialist: Necromancy (Tier 2 Magister)
Acute Instincts (Tier 2 Fury of the Wild)
+1 Wisdom (Tier 1)


Actually, I have 4 twist slots, and put another +1 Wisdom in the 4th.

Overall, pretty similar; I find Avenging Light worth it, and want the Spell Pen.

And, personally, I don't twist Renewal. Divine Healing covers my cheap HoT requirements, and if I want to twist in a healing SLA, Cocoon fits in a lower tier, works through walls at great distance, and can work on myself. Anytime I feel I really need Renewal, I'm probably better off just running in Sentinel than Angel anyway.

EllisDee37
04-04-2015, 05:55 PM
Yep, I agree with all that, SirValentine.

I just have renewal twisted because I'm forgetful and lazy; I'd hate to find myself healing a raid and have forgotten it. That's also why I still have Energy Shield: Electric as my third twist. heh.

I really need to get my twists squared away. I'm thinking maybe Precise Casting: Evocation might be worth considering, but then I'd need to ditch epic spell focus: necromancy for spell focus: evo.

SirValentine
04-04-2015, 07:29 PM
I'm thinking maybe Precise Casting: Evocation might be worth considering...


For sure, it's a great choice. I use it on and off while leveling through an ER. If the last +1 Wisdom twist leave me at odd total Wisdom, it gets substituted to Precise Evo. But at level 28, I'm at even Wisdom, so I skip it.

BigErkyKid
04-06-2015, 05:02 AM
What is your spell rotation like while in necro mode?

I've always wondered how purely necro focused clerics could be effective. The reason is that you have very few necromancy spells to work with, a pale master has a better arsenal to deal with mobs IMHO.

Cleric insta kills:

Implosion (which is EVO)
Slay living (touch spell, harder to use)
Destruction
Circle of death
Mass frog - only in end game

Pale Master insta kills:

Phantasmal killer (and phantasmal killer SLA if built accordingly, it is illusion but DCs should be to the level of implosion on a cleric)
Circle of death
Finger of death
Wail of the banshee (necro and hence better than implosion on a wizard)

However, a pale master can more easily cause helpless and use CC. Even specializing in necro, a wiz can have workable DCs in many other schools, such as enchantment, evocation or illusion. Also quite important, bursts, hell ball work better with a wiz IMO than with a cleric.

How would the cleric play, then? And how would you sell it to a new player?

SirValentine
04-06-2015, 06:32 AM
...you have very few necromancy spells to work with...


"very few"? DDO Wiki says Clerics have 26 Necro spells (to Wizard's 35).



...a pale master has a better arsenal to deal with mobs IMHO.


Both Implosion & Mass Frog work on many things immune to Wail/Circle.

The big advantage I see Wizards having isn't instakill spell selection, it's CC. Greater Command and Cometfall are better than nothing, but not really up to the level of Otto's or Mass Hold, et cetera. Of course, Earthquake is supposed to be a Cleric spell...

(Though Wizards are still several points ahead on Necro DCs. Thunderforged proxy-nerfed 1 point of gap-closing divines had via Alchemical weapons, then the Harper Agent tree cranked Wizards way into the lead again.)



Cleric insta kills:
Circle of death


Nope, not a Cleric spell.



Phantasmal killer (and phantasmal killer SLA if built accordingly, it is illusion but DCs should be to the level of implosion on a cleric)


More ways to boost Evo. +3 for Sorc PLs, +2 for Draconic twist available. Plus, PK requires 2 saves to fail, not just 1.


What is your spell rotation like while in necro mode?


See post #148.

BigErkyKid
04-06-2015, 07:21 AM
"very few"? DDO Wiki says Clerics have 26 Necro spells (to Wizard's 35).
Right, I meant the insta kills. But I am curious, aside from the killing and enervation, and perhaps a symbol now and then, what other necro spells do you use? Honest question.


Both Implosion & Mass Frog work on many things immune to Wail/Circle.
True. But have you managed to get implosion for end game working? I haven't. I know that end game is not all the game, but still irks me.


The big advantage I see Wizards having isn't instakill spell selection, it's CC. Greater Command and Cometfall are better than nothing, but not really up to the level of Otto's or Mass Hold, et cetera. Of course, Earthquake is supposed to be a Cleric spell...
I honestly think they are a tad ahead in insta kills with wail being easier to pump than implosion and having a bigger selection of spells. Yes, the CC and having an easier time getting mobs helpless, aside from better synergy with hell ball and e burst are also great and place them ahead of necro clerics, IMHO.



Nope, not a Cleric spell.
My bad, misplaced. Let's do this right the list would be (I add your DCs and Andoris's DCs next to the spells)

Wizard Pale Master

Circle of death - AOE (77 DC) - 30 secs
Wail - AOE (77 DC) - 60 secs
Power word kill - single target (SR) - 210 secs
Finger of death - single target (77 DC) - 8 seconds
Phantasmal killer - single target (65 DC) - 8 seconds

Cleric

Implosion - AOE (69 DC) - 60 secs
Mass frog - AOE (68 DC) - 60 secs
Destruction - single target (75 DC) - 8 secs
Slay living - single target (75 DC) - 8 secs

So better DCs, particularly on the mass kills (that work on more things, if they work for clerics). Worse DCs on the short rotation spells (PK is worse). However as you note, better CC and better nuking. Honestly I still feel the cleric seems to get the short end of the stick. Now if they got earth quake things would change.

[QUOTE=SirValentine;5579443]More ways to boost Evo. +3 for Sorc PLs, +2 for Draconic twist available. Plus, PK requires 2 saves to fail, not just 1.
You are right, it is worse to boost than evocation and the end DC is lower. Mid-early 60s? EDIT: 65 reports Andoris.

SirValentine
04-06-2015, 12:56 PM
But I am curious, aside from the killing and enervation, and perhaps a symbol now and then, what other necro spells do you use? Honest question.


Cause Fear. Necrotic Ray. Undeath to Death. Energy Drain & Enervation. Bestow Curse. Inflict & Mass Inflict.

Destruction & Slay Living are by far the big two. But then, I seldom see Wizards casting any Necro spells other than Circle, Wail, and Finger.



But have you managed to get implosion for end game working?


Do I routinely implode Orcs in EE Storm Horns? No. Do I routinely implode other mobs in EE Storm Horns, and mobs in EE Orchard? Yes.




Let's do this right the list would be (I add your DCs and Andoris's DCs next to the spells)

Wizard Pale Master
Circle of death - AOE (77 DC) - 30 secs

Cleric
Destruction - single target (75 DC) - 8 secs


Note that 77 isn't even max for a Wizard. Andoris lowers DCs to build for a bit more DPS than I do (runs in Draconic, takes Ruin, twists Sense Weakness, etc.). And his numbers don't include Lasting Ability potions, which mine do. So the gap is actually wider.

EllisDee37
04-08-2015, 09:59 PM
No changes were made when updating the output format. Here's the previous output:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Necro Cleric
Level 28 True Neutral or Neutral Good Human
(20 Cleric / 8 Epic)

Abilities 28pt 32pt 34pt 36pt
Strength 10 10 10 10
Dexterity 8 8 8 8
Constitution 14 14 14 14
Intelligence 14 14 14 14
Wisdom 16 18 18 18
Charisma 12 10 12 14

Skills Ranks
Concentration 23
Heal 23
Spellcraft 23
Jump 11
UMD 11
Tumble 1

Feats
1 : Maximize Spell
1H: Empower Spell (becomes Spell Penetration at level 11)
1C: Follower of the Sovereign Host
3 : Empower Healing Spell
6 : Quicken Spell
6C: Unyielding Sovereignty
9 : Spell Focus: Necromancy or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
12 : Heighten Spell
15 : Greater Spell Penetration
18 : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy or Spell Focus: Necromancy
21E: Epic Spell Penetration
24E: Enlarge Spell
26E: Toughness
27E: Great Ability: Wisdom or Empower Spell or Spell Focus: Evocation
28E: Guardian Angel

Exalted Angel
Wisdom VI
Healing Power III
Radiant Power III
Endless Faith III
Renewal III
Twist 1: Necromancy Specialist
Twist 2: Brace for Impact
Twist 3: Boulder Toss


Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Spellcraft (+4)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Cleric Bonus) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Divine Disciple Core: Divine Emissary of Light
Enhancement: DD Tier 1: Nimbus of Light I
Enhancement: DD1: Nimbus of Light II
Enhancement: DD1: Nimbus of Light III


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: DD1: Spell Points I
Enhancement: DD1: Spell Points II
Enhancement: DD1: Spell Points III
Enhancement: DD1: Spellpower: Light I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: DD Core: Sacred Defense
Enhancement: DD1: Spellpower: Light II
Enhancement: DD3: Searing Light I
Enhancement: DD3: Searing Light II


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: DD3: Searing Light III
Enhancement: DD1: Spellpower: Light III
Enhancement: DD2: Spellpower: Universal I
Enhancement: DD2: Spellpower: Universal II


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Enhancement: DD2: Spellpower: Universal III
Enhancement: DD3: Spellpower: Light I
Enhancement: DD3: Spellpower: Light II
Enhancement: DD3: Spellpower: Light III


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: DD4: Holy Smite I
Enhancement: DD4: Holy Smite II
Enhancement: DD4: Holy Smite III
Enhancement: DD Core: Sun Bolt


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant Core: Healing Domain
Enhancement: RS Tier 1: Extra Turning I
Enhancement: RS1: Extra Turning II
Enhancement: RS1: Extra Turning III


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: RS1: Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: RS2: Improved Turning I
Enhancement: RS2: Improved Turning II
Enhancement: RS2: Improved Turning III


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Necromancy or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
Enhancement: RS2: Mighty Turning I
Enhancement: RS Core: Pacifism
Enhancement: RS Core: Positive Energy Burst


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: RS1: Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: RS1: Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: RS2: Efficient Empower Healing I


***** RESPEC CHARACTER AFTER FINISHING 10, BEFORE TAKING 11 *****
Feat: (Exchange) Spell Penetration replaces Empower Spell
Divine Disciple Tree Reset
Enhancement: DD Core: Divine Emissary of Darkness
Enhancement: DD Core: Sacred Defense
Enhancement: DD1: Spell Points III
Enhancement: DD1: Spellpower: Universal III
Enhancement: DD2: Spellpower: Universal III
Enhancement: DD3: Spellpower: Universal III


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Enhancement: RS2: Efficient Empower Healing II
Enhancement: RS2: Efficient Empower Healing III
Enhancement: RS3: Wisdom
Enhancement: RS4: Wisdom
Enhancement: RS4: Endless Turning I
Enhancement: RS4: Endless Turning II
Enhancement: RS4: Endless Turning III


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: RS5: Positive Energy Aura
Enhancement: DD3: Wisdom


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Enhancement: DD2: Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: DD2: Spell Penetration II


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: DD Core: Enervation
Enhancement: DD Core: Necrotic Ray
Enhancement: DD4: Spell DC: Necromancy


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: DD2: Efficient Maximize I
Enhancement: DD2: Efficient Maximize II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: DD2: Efficient Maximize III
Enhancement: DD4: Wisdom


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Enhancement: DD1: Spell Critical: Universal
Enhancement: DD2: Spell Critical: Universal


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy or Spell Focus: Necromancy
Enhancement: Human Core: Skill Boost
Enhancement: Human1: Improved Recovery
Enhancement: RS Core: Improved Empower Healing


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Enhancement: DD3: Spell Critical: Universal
Enhancement: DD4: Spell Critical: Universal


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Core: Wisdom
Enhancement: DD Core: Power Word: Stun
Enhancement: DD Core: Transcend Darkness


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Spell Penetration


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Enlarge Spell


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Toughness


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Great Ability: Wisdom or Empower Spell or Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Guardian Angel

<End of Build>

Doutrinador
05-05-2015, 04:39 PM
Cause Fear. Necrotic Ray. Undeath to Death. Energy Drain & Enervation. Bestow Curse. Inflict & Mass Inflict.

Destruction & Slay Living are by far the big two. But then, I seldom see Wizards casting any Necro spells other than Circle, Wail, and Finger.



Do I routinely implode Orcs in EE Storm Horns? No. Do I routinely implode other mobs in EE Storm Horns, and mobs in EE Orchard? Yes.




Note that 77 isn't even max for a Wizard. Andoris lowers DCs to build for a bit more DPS than I do (runs in Draconic, takes Ruin, twists Sense Weakness, etc.). And his numbers don't include Lasting Ability potions, which mine do. So the gap is actually wider.

When do you use Tthe inflict spells? I never tried to use on my FVS life. They are sp eficient?

SirValentine
05-05-2015, 07:06 PM
When do you use Tthe inflict spells? I never tried to use on my FVS life. They are sp eficient?

Not to damage enemies! That would be pointless in Epic, though you maybe reasonably could in Heroic content.

Though I don't personally build or play primarily as a "healer", having the option to help out your teammates in emergencies is A Good Thing.

I've saved the rears of Palemaster party members with Inflict spells more often than you might think. A Mass Inflict does not have the ridiculously short range of the single-target; I keep one with metas on for those emergencies. A low-level single-target Inflicts with all metas off is SP-efficient for helping top up a PM between battles.

With their fewer spell slots, I wouldn't expect a FvS to be able to fit in two Inflict spells, but it's doable as a Cleric.

EllisDee37
05-05-2015, 09:49 PM
A Mass Inflict does not have the ridiculously short range of the single-targetNice tip!

Doutrinador
05-05-2015, 10:10 PM
Not to damage enemies! That would be pointless in Epic, though you maybe reasonably could in Heroic content.

Though I don't personally build or play primarily as a "healer", having the option to help out your teammates in emergencies is A Good Thing.

I've saved the rears of Palemaster party members with Inflict spells more often than you might think. A Mass Inflict does not have the ridiculously short range of the single-target; I keep one with metas on for those emergencies. A low-level single-target Inflicts with all metas off is SP-efficient for helping top up a PM between battles.

With their fewer spell slots, I wouldn't expect a FvS to be able to fit in two Inflict spells, but it's doable as a Cleric.

ty

pappo
05-30-2015, 11:16 AM
I just made 28 last night and I have had a great time with this build.
SLA's made Heroic a breeze to do.
Necro spells made Epics the EN and EH quests easy as well. For EE I became more of a party healer/buffer which everyone liked.
I am not much of a soloer, but EN & EH solo was not difficult.

+1 for a great build.

Now I am looking for a good melee S&B or TWF Cleric build. If anyone has had experience with one of those that they took to 28,I will be interested to get a pm on it. Please don't answer here as I do not want to take this off-topic.

Thanks again for the build.

Kindoki
12-01-2015, 12:37 PM
Any recommended changes to this build since the last update?

Atremus
12-01-2015, 03:03 PM
Update 29 should have (or cause) some tweaks. There are new caster feats coming for Epic Levels which should increase the usefulness of all casters.

EllisDee37
12-01-2015, 03:05 PM
Any recommended changes to this build since the last update?Nope, it's still current. There haven't been any appreciable cleric changes to the game since U19, though I'll be updating it for the new levels when U29 releases later this month.

Merevis
12-24-2015, 06:19 AM
I'm trying to start out as a caster based cleric after returning to the game(I like clerics,last time I used the canned warpriest first time I played though,probably could salvage it through those reincarnation thingies I got but would like to start a fresh one for now...)

This cleric build looks like a good start to get into the game and not make too big of a mess of my char at first,though I noticed it uses many metamagic feats like empowering,maximizing etc...Do you really need every one of them? I can guess that its usefull but not knowing how am I supposed to use them will probably result in misuse and waste...should I take thoughness for some survivalbility?


Nevermind I read that one of those gets replaced midway the build,so I guess I can't really swap empower spell out :D

Saroman20
12-24-2015, 07:10 AM
I just dont get why Necromancy? What are all the benefits of Necromancy DC on a cleric?? I cant see... but maybe im just being dumb... can someone clarify this to me? I always thought the best weapons for Cleric was Evocation ( Blade Barrier and Implosion )

pappo
12-24-2015, 08:37 AM
I just dont get why Necromancy? What are all the benefits of Necromancy DC on a cleric?? I cant see... but maybe im just being dumb... can someone clarify this to me? I always thought the best weapons for Cleric was Evocation ( Blade Barrier and Implosion )

Look at post #1. He explains the build.
Evocation or Necromancy can be used for Clerics. Don't get stuck in "one way or the highway" builds. That's what's great about DDO. You can customize and try many ideas. If you run in Pugs or with guildies, they will like your healing and DPS.
I ran this build, and it is a easy path to level 20. Slay living, & destruction are one-shot kills. Necrotic ray, Wail of banshee, and finger of death also powerful. And, you are still a capable self and party healer. You can still use a blade barrier and symbol of death to run mobs through it if you want, and Wail of the Banshee can be used where you would have used Implosion.
Try something outside the box, I'll bet you will be surprised.
Good luck with whatever you run and have fun.

Saroman20
12-24-2015, 09:01 AM
Look at post #1. He explains the build.
Evocation or Necromancy can be used for Clerics. Don't get stuck in "one way or the highway" builds. That's what's great about DDO. You can customize and try many ideas. If you run in Pugs or with guildies, they will like your healing and DPS.
I ran this build, and it is a easy path to level 20. Slay living, & destruction are one-shot kills. Necrotic ray, Wail of banshee, and finger of death also powerful. And, you are still a capable self and party healer. You can still use a blade barrier and symbol of death to run mobs through it if you want, and Wail of the Banshee can be used where you would have used Implosion.
Try something outside the box, I'll bet you will be surprised.
Good luck with whatever you run and have fun.

Sorry but i dont see how i can get finger of death and wailf of the banshee to my cleric spellbook, can you point me all what will give me those spells?

unbongwah
12-24-2015, 09:19 AM
Sorry but i dont see how i can get finger of death and wailf of the banshee to my cleric spellbook, can you point me all what will give me those spells?
Where does OP claim to have either of those spells? He uses the Necro spells granted by Divine Disciple (http://ddowiki.com/page/Divine_Disciple_enhancements) plus Energy Drain, Destruction, and Slay Living.

Personally I prefer Evo-specced light-based clerics, but as pappo said, don't think you have to be pigeonholed into just one niche. Most of the feats, stats, etc. you'll want are identical, the main differences are which Spell Focus(es) you take and whether you invest in Spell Pen.

If you need help with an Evo cleric, we can post that somewhere else so as not to clutter OP's thread. :)

Saroman20
12-24-2015, 09:47 AM
By that sentence "I ran this build, and it is a easy path to level 20. Slay living, & destruction are one-shot kills. Necrotic ray, Wail of banshee, and finger of death also powerful"
I thought Clerics could have wailf of banshee and finger of death o.o
And i thought Transcend: Darkness or Transcend: Light could give those spells... since in the wiki it doesnt show the spells that Transcend: Darkness or Transcend: Light gives hehe

EllisDee37
12-24-2015, 03:15 PM
Personally I prefer Evo-specced light-based clerics, but as pappo said, don't think you have to be pigeonholed into just one niche. Most of the feats, stats, etc. you'll want are identical, the main differences are which Spell Focus(es) you take and whether you invest in Spell Pen.Does Implosion have a Spell Pen check? I thought it did, based solely on wiki saying it does. I never remember seeing a blue shield on it, but I may not have failed any of my spell pen checks.

I definitely do cast implosion on this build even though I'm necro-specced.


If you need help with an Evo cleric, we can post that somewhere else so as not to clutter OP's thread. :)No worries; the evo version is on-topic for the thread. It's specifically mentioned in the OP what to change if you prefer evo. In that paragraph my assumption is that spell pen is still useful for Implosion so I recommend only changing the focus feats.

EDIT: My reasoning for playing as (and posting the build as) primarily necro focused is because a necro build is much better at evo than an evo build is at necro, especially if you dump spell pen. My guy happily spams evo when it's appropriate.

SirValentine
12-25-2015, 07:48 AM
Does Implosion have a Spell Pen check?


Yes, it does.

It's not listed on description for the same reason it doesn't list a save: because casting the spell is never subject to a save or failure due to spell pen. Casting it always, with no save or spell pen check to stop it, succeeds in granting you an Implosion Aura. It's technically sort of a buff.

But it's a silly hair-splitting technicality, because when your Implosion Aura buff then affects enemies, it is indeed subject to Spell Resistance and a Spell Penetration check, and of course to a saving throw as well.

Ginarrbrik
01-07-2016, 02:54 PM
Yes, it does.

It's not listed on description for the same reason it doesn't list a save: because casting the spell is never subject to a save or failure due to spell pen. Casting it always, with no save or spell pen check to stop it, succeeds in granting you an Implosion Aura. It's technically sort of a buff.

But it's a silly hair-splitting technicality, because when your Implosion Aura buff then affects enemies, it is indeed subject to Spell Resistance and a Spell Penetration check, and of course to a saving throw as well.

This.

I prefer necro spec because the cooldown for Implosion is too long to build a toon around it and blade barrier has become very under-powered in epic/legendary content. Don't get me wrong - I still cast Implosion a ton - but you should be able to reach a workable DC just from increased wisdom and maybe an evo focus item. The same can even be said for Cometfall (conj) and Greater Command (ench). A good cleric should have all of these spells in their arsenal and know when to use them. (some decent spell power for DP dots is a good idea too) But as far as feats and enhancements go though, you will get more mileage out of necro spells. And if you play your cards right, you should be able to heal almost every quest/raid with aura, burst, and maybe some mass cures. Because never forget that if people see the cleric icon next to your name, they're gonna expect you to do some healing. That's just how it is. But in my mind, if I kill all the bad guys before they get to my party, that's less healing I have to do. damage prevention > damage recovery.

This coming from someone with 6 years experience as a necro cleric.

Ryan220
09-16-2016, 02:32 AM
I thought I might Necro this thread seeing as Im doing a Heroic Cleric past life. I wondered if anyone else has had aby success or failure with it?

pappo
09-17-2016, 07:59 AM
I thought I might Necro this thread seeing as Im doing a Heroic Cleric past life. I wondered if anyone else has had aby success or failure with it?

Check out the posts above yours and you will see many people have done the Necro Cleric, including myself.
It is a great build and a lot of fun. I don't know how well it stands up in Legendary questing, because I have not done any Legendary quests yet, but for heroic and Epics it is very good.

Kaisheng21
01-17-2017, 12:40 AM
Frog. Mass... Frog. >.>

CutieKitty
03-04-2017, 11:37 AM
This build needs updating again.

EllisDee37
03-04-2017, 12:09 PM
This build needs updating again.For gear, yes, but sadly not much has changed for clerics since I last updated it two years ago.

troublegurl
08-11-2017, 02:58 AM
Is this build up to date?
Thank you


IQUOTE=EllisDee37;5068093]Updated version of this build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/413503) for the enhancement pass.

This is a pure 20 DC caster cleric who (of course) can also raid heal. No tomes are required and no pay classes or races are involved; this is a solid choice for a new player who wants to play a cleric. It works fine as a healbot, plus it can offer much more once you get comfortable healing. It is also a capable soloer, though you'll need to use timing to get through traps. (Most traps have a safe way to get through them.)

The build calls for a feat respec after level 10, just before taking level 11. This costs 10,000 plat and 10,000 siberys dragonshard fragments, both of which should be affordable for a brand new player on a first life. Try to save your free feat respec for something else. At the same time as the feat respec the Divine Disciple tree gets reset, which will cost another few thousand plat.

The framework of this build works fine for an evo build instead of necro; simply change the Necro Focus feat(s) to Evo focus and put the Magister twist on Evo. Then you can take the Draconic twist for Evo as well. Then maybe tack on 3 sorc past lives for another +3 evo DC. heh.

I personally prefer jump over balance because I like the agility, especially when using blade barrier. You can add in balance starting at level 7 if you have a +2 int tome.

Any alignment will work fine. True Neutral is generally best, but if you want to use Forgotten Light you may not have enough UMD to wield it if you aren't good aligned.

The previous version of the output is available here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/422552-Necro-Cleric-for-new-players?p=5583731&viewfull=1#post5583731).


Necro Cleric
Cleric 20
Neutral Good Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt . . 34pt . . 36pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . ---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .10. . . .10. . . .10. . . .4: WIS
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . .8: WIS
Constitution. . 14. . . .14. . . .14. . . .14. . . 12: WIS
Intelligence. . 14. . . .14. . . .14. . . .14. . . 16: WIS
Wisdom. . . . . 16. . . .18. . . .18. . . .18. . . 20: WIS
Charisma. . . . 12. . . .10. . . .12. . . .14. . . 24: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: WIS

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Jump. . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .11
UMD . . . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5. 5


Feats

.1. . . . : Maximize Spell
.1 Human. : Empower Spell
.1 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.3. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
.6. . . . : Quicken Spell
.6 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
.9. . . . : Spell Focus: Necromancy OR Evocation
10 Swap. .: Spell Penetration replaces Empower Spell
12. . . . : Heighten Spell
15. . . . : Greater Spell Penetration
18. . . . : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy OR Evocation
21 Epic . : Epic Spell Penetration
24 Epic . : Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy OR Evocation
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Negative OR Force OR Light
27 Epic . : Embolden Spell OR Intensify Spell
28 Destiny: Mass Frog
29 Destiny: Fount of Life
30 Epic . : Master of: Light OR Alignment
30 Legend : Scion of: Shadowfell OR Celestia


Spells

Cure Light Wounds, Nightshield, Nimbus of Light, Remove Fear, Protection from Evil, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Moderate Wounds, Resist Energy, Owl's Wisdom, Seek Eternal Rest, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Mass Cure Light Wounds, Slay Living, Greater Command, True Seeing, Divine Punishment, Protection from Elements
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Blade Barrier, Heal, Banishment, Undeath to Death, Cometfall
Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Destruction, Mass Spell Resistance, Resurrection, Greater Restoration, Mass Protection from Elements
Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Death Ward, Symbol of Death, Holy Aura, Death Pact, <Any>
Energy Drain, Implosion, Mass Heal, True Resurrection, Summon Monster IX

Enhancements (80 AP)

Divine Disciple (42 AP)
Emissary: Darkness, Sacred Defense, Enervation, Necrotic Ray, Power Word: Stun, Transcend: Darkness
Spellpower: Universal III, Spell Critical: Universal, Spell Points III
Spell Penetration II, Spellpower: Universal III, Efficient Maximize III, Spell Critical: Universal
Spellpower: Universal III, Spell Critical: Universal, Wisdom
Necromancy DC, Spell Critical: Universal, Wisdom

Radiant Servant (33 AP)
Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst, Improved Empower Healing
Extra Turning III, Wand Mastery III
Improved Turning III, Mighty Turning, Efficient Empower Healing III
Wisdom
Endless Turning III, Wisdom
Positive Energy Aura

Human (5 AP)
Skills Boost, Wisdom
Improved Recovery

Leveling Guide
DD0 Emissary: Light; DD1 Nimbus of Light I, II, III
DD1 Spell Points I, II, III; DD1 Spellpower: Light I
DD0 Sacred Defense; DD1 Spellpower: Light II; DD3 Searing Light I, II
DD3 Searing Light III; DD1 Spellpower: Light III; DD2 Spellpower: Universal I, II
DD2 Spellpower: Universal III; DD3 Spellpower: Light I, II, III
DD4 Holy Smite I, II, III; DD0 Sun Bolt
Rad0 Healing Domain; Rad1 Extra Turning I, II, III
Rad1 Wand Mastery I; Rad2 Improved Turning I, II, III
Rad2 Mighty Turning; Rad0 Pacifism; Rad0 Positive Energy Burst
Rad1 Wand Mastery II, III; Rad2 Efficient Empower Healing I
Reset Divine Disciple
Divine Disciple: Emissary: Darkness, Sacred Defense
Spellpower: Universal III, Spell Points III
Spellpower: Universal III
Spellpower: Universal III
Radiant Servant
(none)
Efficient Empower Healing III
Wisdom
Endless Turning III, Wisdom
Rad5 Positive Energy Aura; DD3 Wisdom
DD2 Spell Penetration I, II
DD0 Enervation; DD0 Necrotic Ray; DD4 Necromancy DC
DD2 Efficient Maximize I, II
DD2 Efficient Maximize III; DD4 Wisdom
DD1 Spell Critical: Universal; DD2 Spell Critical: Universal
Hum0 Skills Boost; Hum1 Improved Recovery; Rad0 Improved Empower Healing
DD3 Spell Critical: Universal; DD4 Spell Critical: Universal
Hum0 Wisdom; DD0 Power Word: Stun; DD0 Transcend: Darkness


Destiny (24 AP)

Exalted Angel
Radiant Power III, Endless Faith III, Healing Power III, Wisdom
Wisdom
Wisdom
Wisdom
Leap of Faith, Wisdom
Divine Wrath, Wisdom

Twists of Fate (11 fate points)
Renewal (Tier 3 Sentinel)
School Specialist: Necromancy (Tier 2 Magister)


The basic concept for leveling is to rely on the Divine Disciple light SLAs (nimbus of light, searing light, holy smite) to carry you until you get the higher power spells like blade barrier, slay living, destruction and implosion. Both Maximize and Empower are taken at creation, and they are free when applied to SLAs.

After finishing level 10, but before taking 11, respec to the darkside, drop all the SLAs, and swap out Empower for Spell Penetration. Then take level 11 and go crazy with blade barrier, slay living, and (soon after) destruction. Note that this respec only resets the Divine Disciple tree, and then only re-spends a handful of points back into Divine Disciple, dumping the rest into Radiant Servant so you can get Positive Energy Aura when you take level 12.

My recommendation is to feature blade barrier while soloing and greater command while grouping. When I run this build I virtually never cast blade barrier in groups, and virtually never cast greater command while solo. I cast both of them very frequently the other way around, and the end result is that the build feels very different when soloiing and when in groups. This helps spice up the variety of playing, and I find this change between group types very nice.

Of course, no matter what type of group I'm in, slay living, destruction and implosion are always fun. heh.

This build benefits greatly from a single wizard past life, not the least of which is that the wizard will be able to farm up the gear and destiny twists much easier than a cleric can. Second life xp requirements aren't too bad at all; nowhere near a third life. So a single wizard life followed by this life to end as a Hero is my recommendation. However, this is by no means required. The build works on a first life just fine.[/QUOTE]

EllisDee37
08-11-2017, 04:40 AM
Is this build up to date?The build itself is largely up to date; maybe change some of the epic feats, but overall yes.

However, the build concept may be outdated.

troublegurl
08-11-2017, 05:47 AM
The build itself is largely up to date; maybe change some of the epic feats, but overall yes.

However, the build concept may be outdated.


I'm new to clerics so trying to figure out a good build usually do a fighter class .
I want a solo group play build this seemed good

Marshal_Lannes
08-24-2017, 07:55 AM
I just took a modified version of this build up to 20. These notes are only if you plan on heroic playing this build, I didn't play it in epics TRing to try another Cleric at 20. Played extensively in Reaper with the build.

Race - went Drow just because my character is always Drow. Doesn't really seem to matter what race you use.
Enhancements - Went to 30 in RS instead of DD because the Aura is more important in Reaper. I went turn heavy in the RS tree plus the heal points. Went for Light bonuses in DD tree. Took one Evo +1.
Feats - went Cleric of Amunator (sp?) for the turning. Found my turning very effective in Reaper once I got Mighty Turning from RS. You can easily turn undead in Reaper heroics and I didn't even have an eternal faith item. I was just using Seek Eternal Rest, keeping my CHA item high and using the RS tree enhancements. Great ability to have. Other feats...
L1 - Maximize
L3 - Empower
L6 - PL Wizard
L9 - Empower Healing
L12 - Quicken
L15 - SF Evocation
L18 - Eschew Materials

Eschew Materials is really good for those last couple levels of questing and allows you to dump 9 spots of inventory as you prepare to TR. I went Evo focus over Necro since Destruction usually seems to land until you get to level 18 but then energy drain plus destruction seems to land when you need it though at this point I am mostly using implosion (which is awesome and the main reason I feel you should go Evocation)

The DPS of this build is terrible up through right around L8/9. You're basically a healer so act like it. From 10 to 20 though it takes off and is a lot of fun to play and a huge asset to any Reaper group where you can DPS, Heal, remove effects and so forth.

Key equipment - Armor I used the Scavaged Warplate (high AC plus two slots) ML 8 from 8 to 14. At 14 I used the Blue Dragon Plate. Most of the stuff isn't great anymore but it is sharp looking, has a high AC and does give you spell lore and potency. Shield I used Fanion (GFL, Archmagi, Heavy Fort slotted) ML 14. Other key items to get are the Shimmer Cloak ML 15 from Mines (CHA 8, Spell Pen +3), Halcyonia ML 13 from Trial of the Archons (awesome overall healing helm) and Rem trade in Bracers ML 14 (could go with 7 but I went with 14 because you can more easily utilize the two slots with ML 12 augments).

Raeaddil
09-30-2017, 04:06 PM
Hmm I have a level 15 version of this build and am torn on what domain to take. Was liking Death domain but Knowledge looks good as well. Any recommendations?

EllisDee37
09-30-2017, 04:27 PM
Hmm I have a level 15 version of this build and am torn on what domain to take. Was liking Death domain but Knowledge looks good as well. Any recommendations?I think death is ahead, but knowledge is a fine choice if you have spell pen issues.

Death: +4 necro DC, destruction SLA, necrotic ray SLA, immune to level drain
Knowledge: +2 all DCs, +4 spell pen

I personally love necrotic ray, and destruction as an SLA is swoon-worthy since it gives you three different fingers to rotate.

Buhl
10-10-2017, 09:47 PM
I would like to play this build (thanks for the build by the way) the new cleric Death domain seems like a good fit.

My question is this, regarding the Deity Based Feats does anyone know if the bonus from Aureon's Instruction the diety level 6 Unique Active Ability
(+2 to your effective level for Turn Undead, +4 to maximum Hit Dice affected when using Turn Undead, and +4 to the total Hit Dice affected by Turn Undead.)
will it stack with the Death domain
(+2 to your effective Cleric level to Turn Undead, and +2 to the hit dice of undead effected.)?

If so will it stack further with bonuses elsewhere?

Is this worth the Diety choice?

EllisDee37
10-11-2017, 01:16 AM
It should stack, and both should stack with everything else as well.

Currently the deity choice (Sovereign Host) is only giving you a free super heal once every 10 minutes, which is nice but not the be-all end-all. Feel free to choose any other deity for any reason.

OxfordCalc
10-16-2017, 07:59 AM
The build itself is largely up to date; maybe change some of the epic feats, but overall yes.

However, the build concept may be outdated.

Could you elaborate on this a bit? The build is good if you want a caster cleric, but caster cleric is a suboptimal build?

EllisDee37
10-16-2017, 08:27 AM
Could you elaborate on this a bit? The build is good if you want a caster cleric, but caster cleric is a suboptimal build?Pretty much, though now I think the worm has turned a bit and caster clerics are pretty useful for reaper.

Kza
10-16-2017, 10:29 AM
Pretty much, though now I think the worm has turned a bit and caster clerics are pretty useful for reaper.

Agree, making a few cleric llives for more reaper xp... Fun not only doing warlocks!

My advice- go elecric path. You get nice slas so you easy solo low skulls just with dps. (slas + bb soloing)
In Group you have good evocation as ele path ( + evo). And you can do usual soundburst/great command/destru/implo + healing ( if needed depending).

Death is ofcourse attractive if not just tring at 20, probably the way to go in reaper Epics.

(If you solo reapers- remember soundburst. Stunning the reapers and kill them Before they even touch you. Good times)- thanks to the +evo from ele you dont even need it heightened

OxfordCalc
01-02-2018, 10:06 AM
Agree, making a few cleric llives for more reaper xp... Fun not only doing warlocks!

My advice- go elecric path. You get nice slas so you easy solo low skulls just with dps. (slas + bb soloing)
In Group you have good evocation as ele path ( + evo). And you can do usual soundburst/great command/destru/implo + healing ( if needed depending).

Death is ofcourse attractive if not just tring at 20, probably the way to go in reaper Epics.

(If you solo reapers- remember soundburst. Stunning the reapers and kill them Before they even touch you. Good times)- thanks to the +evo from ele you dont even need it heightened

I've been following this build (Ele domain) and liking it so far. Now my cleric is about to turn 11, and the build says to respec into Radiant servant for positive energy aura. Really don't want to lose Holy Smite. How do I damage the bad guys without it? Want to continue as Light side also.

Do I need more spell penetration as I level?

My cleric plays mostly on normal and hard. Don't think I'm ready for Reaper yet.

EllisDee37
01-03-2018, 02:36 PM
I've been following this build (Ele domain) and liking it so far. Now my cleric is about to turn 11, and the build says to respec into Radiant servant for positive energy aura. Really don't want to lose Holy Smite. How do I damage the bad guys without it? Want to continue as Light side also.You can stay light side if you like. Or you could delay the respec to the dark side to a later level. Note that the cost of respecing goes up in substantial jumps every 4 levels, which is why I slotted it in for level 11.


Do I need more spell penetration as I level? Only if you go to the darkside and start using insta-kill spells. (Slay Living, Destruction) Which is the only reason to go darkside in the first place, IMO.

EDIT: You also want spell pen for Greater Command, regardless if you're light side or dark side, but a light side cleric can probably let spell pen slide a bit and just not be as effective with gtr command.

Paladin_of_Power
03-09-2018, 09:36 PM
I played this build on my second cleric life. Liked it. Chose death domain since I'm throwing death spells around, might as well bump your DC's up. The Holy Smite SLA was very nice to have, clerics need a low level AOE. Striving towards that on the Enhancement tree is a great idea. And the blindness is cherry on top. I made a few changes, I hung at level 12 so I could use my light spells and light spec in Ravenloft. This does very well vs. undead especially with the turning boost with Death Domain. Catacombs, Delaras and Ravenloft I pulled my own weight to say the least and typically lead the group. While still able to heal the group OK. Then at 14 I switched to The Dark Side and never looked back. Heighten is awesome great way to increase DC's. My Destruction and Slay Living DC's at level 18 were 47. Orange Skulls for everyone! Get in line for your death spell. Also decided to focus my enhancement trees on Necromancy, so I picked all the Necro DC and Necro spellpower stuff on Divine Disciple I could get my hands on. I think the cleric needs some better necromancy based AOE's as Inflict mass is pretty blah and the Negative Energy Burst is blah but I took and used them as they're cheap sp for *some* aoe damage. No crowd control with those unlike Holy Smite blindness. Against those with Death Ward I used Flame Strike, Firestorm and Cometfall and healed the rest of the team between some CC with SoundBurst and Greater Command. Chill Touch if they got close.

Didn't think Power Word Stun was worth it, and since I'm not doing Epics with this toon, just heroic reincarnations I didn't need the core capstone.

Here's the tree from my L18 Necropriest.

http://preview.ibb.co/nHK2iS/2nd_Life_Enhancement_Trees.png (http://ibb.co/c02zV7)

Oh and I did Wheloon with another Necro cleric with a similar build. The orange skulls were flying, we did quite well.