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Tenebris-Niatellim
08-13-2013, 12:07 PM
I recently got 400 favor (on my lovely AA ^_^ thanks for the previous tips guys), I was thinking of creating a new character to play occasionally with my friend who is low level.

Can someone suggest a Drow build/ class that would be viable and fun? I know that the enhancement pass is coming but the current changes are online on the wiki or on a pdf file that someone posted. I tried on my own to make sense of it for 2 hours yesterday but no avail. I'm actually not even sure what you can reset in the enhancement pass, so I don't even know where to start. So if someone could help provide a build that wouldn't get blown up in the enhancement pass I would be grateful.

I'm leaning toward a warchanter because Drow's racial bonuses seem to compliment bards and the fact that I realized I really hated how slow casting felt no matter how high I hit in dps. I personally prefer hitting fast and having bunch of number pop up above the monsters heads, so i'd like to go melee that has that trait (since AA is ranged with that trait XD). However I can't tell how I should start...will we be able to change feats? Starting stats, and enhancements in the pass? Because i'm afraid if I follow a build i'll end up with a gimped character after the pass.

Thank you very much if you can help ^_^.

unbongwah
08-13-2013, 01:34 PM
Bard 16 / rog 2 / ftr 2 is a solid build now and will likely continue to be a solid build post-U19; so is bard 18 / rog 2 or pure bard. I prefer TWF on a drow, since between higher DEX & their rapier / SS bonuses it's a natural fit. That's also why drow are a good choice for TWF pallies, who benefit more from +2 CHA than melee bards do, IMHO.

I was gonna suggest drow arcane caster as well, but since you said you don't enjoy casters, I guess that's out.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-13-2013, 06:23 PM
Bard 16 / rog 2 / ftr 2 is a solid build now and will likely continue to be a solid build post-U19; so is bard 18 / rog 2 or pure bard. I prefer TWF on a drow, since between higher DEX & their rapier / SS bonuses it's a natural fit. That's also why drow are a good choice for TWF pallies, who benefit more from +2 CHA than melee bards do, IMHO.

I was gonna suggest drow arcane caster as well, but since you said you don't enjoy casters, I guess that's out.

Okay I decided to go TWF pally because bards seemed really hard to level up without a good party. The build I decided was 18 pally with 2 rogue level at 1 and 8. I'm hoping that'll be fine even when the U19 repass comes.

btw whats a SS bonus? Plus do you think drow's vorpal blade enhancement thing is worth it? in u19

Istaria1
08-13-2013, 07:24 PM
Frankly I;'d still go with a THF bard. By far my most fun char, and has levelled faster than any character I ever had. Plus when a party sees you coming, they will cheer and clap as you sing ;)

Aes.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-13-2013, 07:32 PM
frankly i;'d still go with a thf bard. By far my most fun char, and has levelled faster than any character i ever had. Plus when a party sees you coming, they will cheer and clap as you sing ;)

aes.

thf?

AbyssalMage
08-13-2013, 09:42 PM
thf?
THF or 2HF - Two Hand Fighting

And I would second the THF also. Saves 3 feats and it allows you to focus ability points in STR, INT, and CON. I would go 14 Dex still though so evasion works :)

But the enhancement pass does make going TWF (Two Weapon Fighting) kinda desirable on Drow, Elf, and Halfling with all of the new boosts they recieved for TWF.

stoerm
08-14-2013, 05:26 AM
Drow ladies are cute. Humans are often a better choice, even if you don't have access to 32 point builds, due to better enhancements.


Honestly, they are rarely if ever a good choice, let alone the ideal one.


So, from a pure numbers perspective, Drow are the Bastard Sword of races: a suboptimal trap that the Devs seem to be selling harder than a coworker with a blank Girl Scout cookie order form.


I posted precisely why Drow are rarely the best at anything - besides their stat bonuses, they don't have any racial bonuses in a meaningful sense. Their spell resistance is too low to be of any use while shuriken expertise is just gravy. They have racial bonuses to rapiers and shortswords, which is why rogue is listed as a recommended class - but one could just go human and pick up khopesh with the spare feat.

Their stat distribution is all they have going for them.
a) They can reach 20 int or charisma, while a human or helf can only reach 19. If that constitutes an extra DC, that's slightly meaningful.
b) In builds which invest significantly in two of their bonus stats for the purpose of reaching specific benchmarks, e.g. twf paladins (gtwf and divine might), artificers (imp precise shot and max int), the drow stat distribution makes it easier to hit everything on the list. Drow are arguably the only race that can feasibly hit DM4 as a twf paladin without undue sacrifice.

The example of identical builds does not really apply. Look at the end results of both builds. In very few cases is the drow definitively better.

tihocan's guides are old and orientated towards new player levelling. A thf drow paladin would make no sense right now.


If you want to play a Drow, play a Drow.

I have a first life, TWF Drow fighter that does fine in ALL content.

I don't see anything much in the new enhancements to change any of this.

Therigar
08-14-2013, 06:53 AM
Okay I decided to go TWF pally because bards seemed really hard to level up without a good party. The build I decided was 18 pally with 2 rogue level at 1 and 8. I'm hoping that'll be fine even when the U19 repass comes.

The Batman type builds have always been popular. They are reasonably self sufficient and immensely forgiving -- making them a solid choice for players.

One thing to look at is the changes to the enhancements. There are often advantages to going with 4 levels of a splash instead of 2 like in the old system. There also is no real demand for 6/12/18 levels of a main class since PrE tiers are not really stacked like that with the new system.

Be aware that paladin Divine Might is probably worthless on a build like you are considering since you almost certainly want to take advantage of DEX and CHA as a drow. This means you're leaving yourself with very little in the way of STR and the new version of DM is a boost to STR equal to your CHA modifier (not a boost to damage).

I would take Weapon Finesse and enough rogue levels (I think the magic number is 4 levels) to unlock DEX to damage on finessed weapons with the WF feat. Since you have to have enough DEX to qualify the TWF line anyway you might as well get something useful out of it.

INT on the build has to be 14 to keep Disable Device and Search at max values. It has to be 18 to also keep UMD at max value. That is a huge investment in INT when you're not going to use it for anything else. Taking more rogue levels lets you hold INT down near 14 and top up periodically. IMO a better idea.

Personally, I'd have gone a different direction but you seem to have your mind made up about the paladin. IMO pure rogue is a better choice. Starting 18 INT, 16 DEX, rest in CON with stat increases in INT. Very serviceable rogue with excellent assassination potential. Using a +1 tome (easily had on the AH) qualifies the full TWF line. Rogue enhancements plus Weapon Finesse give DEX to hit and damage with rapiers.

But, your character so play what you'll enjoy.

unbongwah
08-14-2013, 09:29 AM
Okay I decided to go TWF pally because bards seemed really hard to level up without a good party.
Actually, I think my drow bard was easier to level than my pally, which surprised me: squishier, yes, but with better buffs & self-healing plus good CC w/Fascinate; and my rog splash + bard skill pts meant I was able to add some trap skills as well.

btw whats a SS bonus? Plus do you think drow's vorpal blade enhancement thing is worth it? in u19
SS = "short sword," one of the weapons drow racial weapon bonuses applies to. Or it stands for "Spellsinger," one of the bard PrEs. As always, we see the perils of D&D's overloaded terminology (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html). :)

One thing to look at is the changes to the enhancements. There are often advantages to going with 4 levels of a splash instead of 2 like in the old system. There also is no real demand for 6/12/18 levels of a main class since PrE tiers are not really stacked like that with the new system.
AFAICT, the core PrE abilities are still tiered @ 6/12/18/20; but there's also one @ lvl 3. The T1/2/3/4/5 abilities only req. lvls 1-5 in a class, though; which I think is poorly balanced (they should've been tiered every other or third class lvl), but I wasn't consulted. :p

What I'm trying to figure out is if, say, the lvl 18 pally core ability is still worthwhile on a build like this, or whether something more heaviliy MCed is better.

I disagree w/Therigar's suggestion of going DEX-based. Divine Might is still a key DPS boost for pallies and now that it's an insightful STR bonus, the rationale for going w/DEX pallies just got worse. :( But I'm also presuming this build is not intended as a trapper. Base stats of 16 / 16 / 12 / 10 / 8 / 16 is still a solid starting point for a drow pally, IMHO, w/lvl-ups into STR and +1 DEX tome for ITWF/GTWF. Aim for pal 14 / rog 2 initially to get Zeal + Evasion; at that point you can decide if more pally, rog, or perhaps ftr lvls suit this build better.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-14-2013, 11:21 AM
The Batman type builds have always been popular. They are reasonably self sufficient and immensely forgiving -- making them a solid choice for players.

One thing to look at is the changes to the enhancements. There are often advantages to going with 4 levels of a splash instead of 2 like in the old system. There also is no real demand for 6/12/18 levels of a main class since PrE tiers are not really stacked like that with the new system.

Be aware that paladin Divine Might is probably worthless on a build like you are considering since you almost certainly want to take advantage of DEX and CHA as a drow. This means you're leaving yourself with very little in the way of STR and the new version of DM is a boost to STR equal to your CHA modifier (not a boost to damage).

I would take Weapon Finesse and enough rogue levels (I think the magic number is 4 levels) to unlock DEX to damage on finessed weapons with the WF feat. Since you have to have enough DEX to qualify the TWF line anyway you might as well get something useful out of it.

INT on the build has to be 14 to keep Disable Device and Search at max values. It has to be 18 to also keep UMD at max value. That is a huge investment in INT when you're not going to use it for anything else. Taking more rogue levels lets you hold INT down near 14 and top up periodically. IMO a better idea.

Personally, I'd have gone a different direction but you seem to have your mind made up about the paladin. IMO pure rogue is a better choice. Starting 18 INT, 16 DEX, rest in CON with stat increases in INT. Very serviceable rogue with excellent assassination potential. Using a +1 tome (easily had on the AH) qualifies the full TWF line. Rogue enhancements plus Weapon Finesse give DEX to hit and damage with rapiers.

But, your character so play what you'll enjoy.

I haven't decided on paladin (lol) it was the one class I never expected to play. The only reason I chose it was because 1. the ench pass is coming up so I could change it if I hated it 2. I could level and reset everything in the ench pass 3. I could disable traps and pick locks 4. And it seemed like a viable build

I like rogues a lot and how they synergize with drow (beside the hp) but the two major problems is that 1. My friend who im playing with on this character is a rogue 2. I played a rogue before and I felt suboptimal having to sneak to do damage (maybe im inexperienced but I rarely noticed the damage boost, maybe more noticeable at higher levels?).

To make things clear i'm open to any new build so long as it uses TWF (which will be good on drows anyway), I also love attack speed enhancements (rogue haste...I love it so much) since what I look for it fast hitting characters HPS (hits per second) anyone? :D

I'm still interested in the bard, but it was a horrible experience when I was having trouble soloing korthos normal and hard quests, something that never happened on any other class I had played. Maybe I was playing it wrong (I did use a very vague wiki build), do they start off real slow or something?

So far TWF bards, Pure rogue, TWF paladins all seem to have problems Q_Q. Pure rogue (friend uses it, really low dmg and squishy?), TWF Bards (bad experience but no real bad reason), and from what I can tell TWF paladins wont be as optimal as they were pre-19?

Therigar
08-14-2013, 12:35 PM
I disagree w/Therigar's suggestion of going DEX-based. Divine Might is still a key DPS boost for pallies and now that it's an insightful STR bonus, the rationale for going w/DEX pallies just got worse.

Let's look deeply into the suggestion of 16 CHA with no level increases. This means CHA is going to end up somewhere around 30 or 32 for most players. That is a +10 boost to STR for +5 points of added damage. Sticking with the paladin enhancements a player can pick up another 4 STR for a total of a +7 boost to damage. (The impact on to hit numbers is mostly irrelevant since the previous pass changing how to hit is calculated.) This is very nearly the same as players were getting with DM4 and better than they were getting with DM3.

My thought is that, with a low CON, the build is better off playing more like a rogue. Far from not intending the build as a trapper, I'm looking at it as a rogue with save boosts and heals. The lower INT does not really hurt trap ability (both search and disable are INT skills). But, the emphasis on DEX means higher reflex saves (better in AoE and ray based spell saves as well as moving thru traps to disable).

The DEX emphasis is to discourage overzealousness in melee where the player might make the mistake of thinking they are the DPS focus. Rogues know better than that so hit second to make sure aggro stays elsewhere.

If I were choosing drow as the basis for a build I'd be going with a rogue pure and pure. My suggestion is merely in keeping with that rogue mind set. ;)

Lastly, note the DM and STR enhancement numbers. If CHA can somehow reach 34 then paladins can get the same +8 damage boost that they were getting with DM4 under the old system. My assumption on CHA is that it is base value + 4 tome + 12 gear. So, 16+4+12=32. Drow could start with 18 CHA instead, but doing so takes away from DEX and CON. Lowered DEX puts a strain on the TWF line requiring a higher DEX tome. Players really should be more experienced to run with lowered CON scores -- even 12 is a bit risky IMO considering the changes to toughness. Still, it could be done.

Therigar
08-14-2013, 12:56 PM
I haven't decided on paladin (lol) it was the one class I never expected to play. The only reason I chose it was because 1. the ench pass is coming up so I could change it if I hated it 2. I could level and reset everything in the ench pass 3. I could disable traps and pick locks 4.

As I said, the Batman build has always been popular. You should be able to do all of the things you are looking to do.

I don't think that the builds need 18 paladin levels. I will point out the things I said in my reply to unbongwah concerning how STR and DEX builds would play differently. I'll also note that you could get mileage out of DM if CHA can be pushed high enough -- so that was a fair assessment from unbongwah.

Since you are looking to group with a friend who is planning to play a rogue it does make sense to go with a melee character that can carry some of the load. If you are still open to suggestions I would recommend you look at either ranger or monk.

Ranger, in particular, gets what you are looking for and without the pressure on the character for DEX to qualify the TWF line. You might be able to get away with a ranger 12/paladin 4/rogue 4 which should play similar to the Batman builds but could drop DEX to gain CHA and STR. Use insightful reflexes instead for reflex saves and go with unbongwah's STR focused recommendation.

As unbongwah notes, enhancement tiers generally require only a few levels in a class. And, as I've observed, 4 seems to be the tipping point for the best of them. With 4 paladin levels you can get DM and the turn undead ability to use it. With 4 rogue levels you can open up the rogue trees for some stat bonuses and other goodies. With the ranger levels you get the full measure of TWF at no feat cost to you (reducing the strain on feat selections) and also gain access to at least 2 of the ranger trees (depending on how many of the paladin/rogue trees you access).

This would let you get the TWF you are looking for and to also maximize the benefits of CHA and DM.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-14-2013, 01:26 PM
As I said, the Batman build has always been popular. You should be able to do all of the things you are looking to do.

I don't think that the builds need 18 paladin levels. I will point out the things I said in my reply to unbongwah concerning how STR and DEX builds would play differently. I'll also note that you could get mileage out of DM if CHA can be pushed high enough -- so that was a fair assessment from unbongwah.

Since you are looking to group with a friend who is planning to play a rogue it does make sense to go with a melee character that can carry some of the load. If you are still open to suggestions I would recommend you look at either ranger or monk.

Ranger, in particular, gets what you are looking for and without the pressure on the character for DEX to qualify the TWF line. You might be able to get away with a ranger 12/paladin 4/rogue 4 which should play similar to the Batman builds but could drop DEX to gain CHA and STR. Use insightful reflexes instead for reflex saves and go with unbongwah's STR focused recommendation.

As unbongwah notes, enhancement tiers generally require only a few levels in a class. And, as I've observed, 4 seems to be the tipping point for the best of them. With 4 paladin levels you can get DM and the turn undead ability to use it. With 4 rogue levels you can open up the rogue trees for some stat bonuses and other goodies. With the ranger levels you get the full measure of TWF at no feat cost to you (reducing the strain on feat selections) and also gain access to at least 2 of the ranger trees (depending on how many of the paladin/rogue trees you access).

This would let you get the TWF you are looking for and to also maximize the benefits of CHA and DM.

The question is, is there a specific order I have to take these levels? Also to clarify basically what your suggesting is a ranger paladin rogue multi class that focuses on Str...and uses int for reflex saves since int would harmonize with lockpick etc? The ranger bring TWF feats, the rogue bringing the rogue goodies, and the paladin bringing...DM?

what is a DM?

And why 12 ranger levels? Is it because 4 rogue and 4 paladin is the most optimal so you just dump the rest into ranger?

unbongwah
08-14-2013, 01:39 PM
I played a rogue before and I felt suboptimal having to sneak to do damage (maybe im inexperienced but I rarely noticed the damage boost, maybe more noticeable at higher levels?).
Rogues don't need to "sneak" (i.e., use stealth) to get sneak atks (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sneak_attack); instead, you need to attack a target while it isn't aggroed on you or is blind or helpless. This makes soloing a rogue pretty challenging; it's best if you partner up with a meat shield who draws aggro first. ;) [Note that some mobs have high Fortification or seem to be completely immune to SAs, so you'll do less DPS against them.]

I'm still interested in the bard, but it was a horrible experience when I was having trouble soloing korthos normal and hard quests, something that never happened on any other class I had played. Maybe I was playing it wrong (I did use a very vague wiki build), do they start off real slow or something?
The first few levels of bard can be rough, for much the same reason low-lvl arcane casters have a hard time: i.e., low HPs, low-ish DPS, not much self-healing, 1st-lvl spells are pretty blah. Splashing rogue exacerbates this, because it delays your bard abilities an extra level.

TWF paladins wont be as optimal as they were pre-19?
Paladins have never had the DPS of ftrs or barbs; even monks, rogues, and rgrs can outshine them in certain situations. But a couple of the changes in U19 will make TWF pallies worse, unfortunately. First, Divine Might is going from a flat +2/4/6/8 bonus to dmg (which favors TWF over THF) to an insight bonus to STR (which favors THF over TWF); the upside is DM now lasts up to 2 mins. (2x as long) and no longer has a min. base CHA pre-req. And second, some of defensive stance's bonuses will be S&B-only, which will hurt any TWF/THF pallies built around DoS (namely losing the +STR bonus). On the plus side, KotC now adds up to +2d6 dmg to evil enemies, in addition to bonus dmg vs undead/EOs.

The silver lining is racial PrEs are still supposed to be in the works (knock on wood); drow were slated to gain access to Tempest, which will really help out TWF pallies. At least, I sure hope so, or I'm gonna feel really dumb for continuing to level up a drow pally myself! :o

But, the emphasis on DEX means higher reflex saves (better in AoE and ray based spell saves as well as moving thru traps to disable).
I've never felt like my Reflex saves were too low on my TWF pallies, thanks to Divine Grace + base DEX 17. And as for DEX-based rog / pallies w/trap skills - well, funny you should mention those (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/349320-The-Divine-Swashbuckler-%28drow-rogue-13-paladin-6%29?highlight=)... ;)

Istaria1
08-14-2013, 01:45 PM
I don't know if this build still works these days, but you might find what you are looking for in https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/168687-The-Exploiter-Ranger-18-Monk-1-Rogue-1 "The Exploiter" build.

If this has been nerfed to high heaven, the experienced players will let me know :)

Aes.

AbyssalMage
08-14-2013, 01:45 PM
what is a DM?
DM = divine might. It is actually worthless once you get into the higher levels and acquire gear. But like everything, you need the gear before the enhancement (DM) becomes obsolete.

This also assumes that DM remains unchanged when it goes live.

unbongwah
08-14-2013, 01:50 PM
And why 12 ranger levels? Is it because 4 rogue and 4 paladin is the most optimal so you just dump the rest into ranger?
Rgr 11 gets you all of the TWF & ranged feats free; rgr 12 lets you add Tempest II, which is +10% offhand proc chance. [AFAIK, Tempest II is still the only way to hit 100% offhand proc chance.] After that, it's just a matter of figuring out what to do with the other levels.

Another interesting option would be rgr 15 / rog 3 / pal 2; the extra rgr lvls get you a 4th Favored Enemy and 2 lvl 4 spell slots (CSW + FOM). Pal 2 gets you Divine Grace, the first two tiers of Exalted Smite, and Divine Might (but not Divine Sacrifice); rog 3 gets you 2d6 SA and up to T3 rog enhancements.

Therigar
08-14-2013, 02:18 PM
The question is, is there a specific order I have to take these levels? Also to clarify basically what your suggesting is a ranger paladin rogue multi class that focuses on Str...and uses int for reflex saves since int would harmonize with lockpick etc? The ranger bring TWF feats, the rogue bringing the rogue goodies, and the paladin bringing...DM?

what is a DM?

And why 12 ranger levels? Is it because 4 rogue and 4 paladin is the most optimal so you just dump the rest into ranger?

Somewhat out of order.

DM = Divine Might. Others have made observations on it already. My understanding from playing with it on Lamannia and reading the forum discussions is that it gives an enhancement bonus to STR equal to your CHA modifier. So, 18 CHA gives a +4 enhancement bonus to STR. The issue referred to by AbyssalMage is that this is the same type of bonus that gear gives. So, as soon as you equip a +5 STR item you've surpassed the benefit of the 18 CHA. AFAIK this is how DM will work when the update hits. In my best case scenario I've noted that you could get to +8 or higher damage bonus with a combination of STR enhancements and high CHA. But note that you can easily get +8 STR items and, if things go as they are previewed on Lamannia, none of the DM increase will be included. Enhancement bonuses do not stack. If they did people would equip +1 thru +8 items for +36 to stats.

The 12/4/4 is because this is looking more and more like the optimal break point for most new builds. As others note, 12 ranger is needed for the "Tempest II" increase to off-hand attacks. That is really important for a TWF build. And, 4 levels in the other classes gets you most of the items in the other trees that you'll want. I suspect that 12/3/5 might also work but haven't played with it enough to see if there is an advantage to going that route.

As for leveling order, probably rogue first and then 2 paladin levels followed by 12 ranger. After that I'd finish off with rogue/paladin/rogue/paladin/rogue. But mostly any combination that gets you to L20 will work. The issue with deep splash builds is that they don't hit their full potential until late.

One final observation on DM. If it reverts to some sort of damage boost or if it becomes an untyped bonus or a profane/divine bonus to STR it will be worth having. The issue is with it counting as a non-stacking enhancement bonus.

unbongwah
08-14-2013, 02:39 PM
My understanding from playing with it on Lamannia and reading the forum discussions is that it gives an enhancement bonus to STR equal to your CHA modifier. So, 18 CHA gives a +4 enhancement bonus to STR.
Minor correction: it's an insight bonus, not enhancement, IIUC. Still doesn't stack w/insightful STR bonuses, unfortunately. :( But at least those are less common & smaller than enhancement bonuses. And I guess the silver lining is you don't have to worry about slotting Insightful STR on a pally anymore? Like the man on the pole said, always look at the bright side of life... :rolleyes:

The 12/4/4 is because this is looking more and more like the optimal break point for most new builds.
I suspect the biggest limiting factor will be AP costs. According to the wiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Enhancement_Alpha) (which may be outdated), you need to spend at least 20 APs to access T4 abilities; 40 if you want T5 abilities. But just accessing the tier isn't enough, of course; you also need enough APs left over to buy whatever it is you want. [Which is part of why I think the tiered abilities should've been pegged to the core enhancement progression, not the first 5 class lvls; but again, no one asked for my input. :p]

Therigar
08-14-2013, 06:17 PM
Ah, thanks. If it is an insight bonus then that's another matter and DM becomes worth taking if you have enough CHA. IIRC maximum insight bonus is +3 and maximum exceptional is +1. It would seem that DM is worth having as long as you have 16 CHA or higher. For many players it will still be an increase.

Thanks for the correction.

Therigar
08-14-2013, 06:20 PM
I suspect the biggest limiting factor will be AP costs. According to the wiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Enhancement_Alpha) (which may be outdated), you need to spend at least 20 APs to access T4 abilities; 40 if you want T5 abilities.

Good point. Not many people offering build ideas with the new enhancements so it remains to be seen. It could be a case of an over abundance of goodies. :)

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-15-2013, 04:37 PM
12 ranger 4 rogue and 4 paladin sounds nice. However although I chose to go paladin i'm not sure what it brings to the table other then some cool skills like smite, that healing spell etc. Is it because it gives martial proficiencies and heavy armor prof?

I see the reasoning with ranger 12 for the tempest II (and since ranger capstone is for archers), and rogue 4 because rogue has goodies but I still don't understand what paladin brings that makes it a better choice then lets say...a fighter splash.

Therigar
08-15-2013, 06:20 PM
Is it because it gives martial proficiencies and heavy armor prof?

Paladin is just because that is a class we've been talking about. It could easily be fighter which has the advantage of giving you access to 3 more feats at fighter levels 1, 2 and 4.

Ranger already gives you martial weapons so neither paladin nor fighter are needed for that. Heavy armor is actually not a good idea most of the time since evasion only works in light or no armor (and is a key part of most ranger builds).

The primary reason for 4 level splashing is to open up higher tiers in enhancement trees. But, in the case of paladin it is also because divine might requires the ability to turn undead -- something that comes to paladins at L4.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-15-2013, 06:57 PM
BTW, I change my stance on casting classes as long as its not wizards...because they feel so slow paced, its like 1 spell and do dmg jump around cast another aoe spell or cc and jump around. I also gave up on sorcerers after I watched a boring video where the guy just spammed ice storm and sat there blocking. But because of the enhancement pass and all that I looked around a bit and watched a few videos of sorcerer savants...I must say they impressed me. I liked the fast casting compared to the annoyingly slow casts wizards have, and they seemed quite powerful. I especially liked the Air Savant.

So I guess i'm open to sorcerer ideas as well :P DDO has so much that I haven't explored that it's amazing. This game probably is going to occupy me for years to come as long as they don't do something really bad (like screw over F2P players utterly).

Are drows good for sorcerors? I'm thinking of making this my solo play character (as in I get on when my friends aren't on, not that I wont party with others) Also i'm fine with other races.

Therigar
08-15-2013, 08:53 PM
Don't let videos mislead you. If you do not have a way to regenerate spell points and if you cannot rely on your spell like abilities (SLA) then you rapidly deplete spell points and are just a death waiting to happen.

Sorcerers do have the advantage over wizards of faster casting and more spell points. And, if you manage to find or craft a spell regeneration item they can be extremely powerful. But, in a duo with your rogue friend some sort of meat shield is probably better.

One alternative is favored soul. Well, it is an alternative if you have it unlocked or buy it from Turbine.

Favored souls can have a good selection of offensive and defensive spells but they also can be formidable melee characters. Clerics can do the same thing, in some ways better and in other ways worse. Neither is particularly optimal on a drow but they can be built.

TheNameIwasntB4
08-16-2013, 08:05 AM
As a DROW you can put your charisma to 20. So, I would think of any character that uses charisma as it's main stat.

My pure drow

Strength = 10
Dexterity = 10
Constitution = 14
Intelligence = 10
Wisdom = 8
Charisma = 20

PURE BARD haggle bard here I come

PURE Favored Soul - must either earn 2500 favor or buy this. Lots of spell points and blade barrier and self healing


PURE Sorceror lots of spell points, squishy. Mostly a run away and range character. Do not be brave

Sorceror/2nd Paladin Great saves. Throws around lots of damage. But a Warforged would be better at this. You want to maximize charisma for spell points.


Put your charisma to 14 or so.

Strength = 14
Dexterity = 12
Constitution = 16
Intelligence = 10
Wisdom = 8
Charisma = 14


PURE Paladin great saves, fair DPS, self healing. All Charisma does for you is give you extra self heals. You can accomplish this with tomes and +6 Charisma items.



Here is where you need to mess around with stats. With a rogue you want a better intelligence and a better dexterity.

Bard/2nd Rogue a sort of jack of all trades character


These characters below are all over the place with build points

Sorceror/2nd Paladin/2nd Rogue Again, you have to spread your build points all over, but you get great saves, evasion, blow stuff up.

Wizard/Rogue Here you can focus on intelligence, dexterity, and constitution, not charisma. With the spell resistance it is better than an elf. But why?

Therigar
08-16-2013, 09:25 AM
I've had the chance to look more closely at the ranger/rogue/paladin suggestion. I don't think it is right for you because your friend is already planning on playing a rogue. That means having rogue levels doesn't really do anything valuable for you.

Instead I think that ranger/paladin is a better choice or even a pure ranger or pure paladin. I still prefer ranger over paladin because of the free access to the two-weapon fighting line and the abundance of free ranged feats. And, I think that pure ranger might be a better choice than a ranger/paladin because of the prestige enhancements.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-16-2013, 08:23 PM
Don't let videos mislead you. If you do not have a way to regenerate spell points and if you cannot rely on your spell like abilities (SLA) then you rapidly deplete spell points and are just a death waiting to happen.

Sorcerers do have the advantage over wizards of faster casting and more spell points. And, if you manage to find or craft a spell regeneration item they can be extremely powerful. But, in a duo with your rogue friend some sort of meat shield is probably better.

One alternative is favored soul. Well, it is an alternative if you have it unlocked or buy it from Turbine.

Favored souls can have a good selection of offensive and defensive spells but they also can be formidable melee characters. Clerics can do the same thing, in some ways better and in other ways worse. Neither is particularly optimal on a drow but they can be built.

Yeah the SP drops like rocks if I use metamagic. But sorcerers are definitely my cup of tea. I recently leveled my sorcerer to 4 while waiting for my friends to play. And DAM although they're squishy as hell they can hit hard...I've been one shotting every mob and boss even on elite (save for when they save from my niacs like 6 times in a row). Empower + Maximize + (starter robe gives +1 caster level o.o) makes me hit 160~ per ray (although it costs 54 sp?), and 60~70 normaly for a 4 sp ray. I don't see myself running out of sp if I don't use metamagic, but it probably will change at higher levels when monsters can actually tank damage.

But yes I like sorcerers, they cast quickly, don't have a plethora of spells but I like how manageable it is, and they are dumb as rocks (8 int cought cough)...forget the last part. But yeah back to the drow topic XD.

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-16-2013, 08:25 PM
I've had the chance to look more closely at the ranger/rogue/paladin suggestion. I don't think it is right for you because your friend is already planning on playing a rogue. That means having rogue levels doesn't really do anything valuable for you.

Instead I think that ranger/paladin is a better choice or even a pure ranger or pure paladin. I still prefer ranger over paladin because of the free access to the two-weapon fighting line and the abundance of free ranged feats. And, I think that pure ranger might be a better choice than a ranger/paladin because of the prestige enhancements.

Hm the only reason I doubt going ranger a bit is because I have my AA, I guess I can just consider going tempest an entirely different thing altogether.

What exactly does a pure ranger offer? Isint the ranger capstone for archers only?

(Also I liked rogues because they had the rogue haste enhancement ATTACK SPEED :D!!!!, but do other classes, such as ranger, have that as well?)

Tenebris-Niatellim
08-19-2013, 11:22 AM
Sooo...what to do now that U19 Is out? Wait for builds to come out? How do you access Lammina server anyway?