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View Full Version : Do risia effects add to ML now?



EllisDee37
07-27-2013, 05:40 PM
In DDO's past, items had minimum levels because they were explicitly placed in treasure tables to generate properly on that item.

Sometimes, mistakes were made when setting up quest arc rewards, and one item (rings, in several cases...) slipped through bugged with no minimum level.

Core changes to how items in DDO work mean that we (the developers) no longer set item level ourselves on an item by item by entering data in tables.
Now, for non-named and non-raid items only, the item figures out it's own level properly based on the total value of the magical effects on it.
This means that bugs of both kinds (randomly-generated items too high in level and items that were too low in level) will fix themselves, and these bugs cannot occur again in the future.

I'm curious if this means that festival icy burst will now add to the ML of the lootgen it's applied to. I can't log in to lammania to check if my existing risia weapons got an ML bump; can someone else?

Andoris
07-27-2013, 06:37 PM
I'm curious if this means that festival icy burst will now add to the ML of the lootgen it's applied to. I can't log in to lammania to check if my existing risia weapons got an ML bump; can someone else?

Just checked and yes they bumped up the ML of the items :-(

+4 Flaming wraps of Greater Elemental bane w/ Festival Frost was ML:14 now is ML:18
+4 Axiomatic of Greater Dragon Bane w/ Festival burst was ML:16 now is ML:21

Makes Risa pretty worthless imo. I wish there was a way to take the Festival Frost/Burst off now.

Atremus
07-27-2013, 07:14 PM
Dang, that sucks...

The only remaining benefit of Risa was the Icy Kits.

At least non of the events are useful anymore.

Mabar - the Necro Robe / Docent will be replaced by +5DC items, Wraps might be useful still

Cove - Almost no one running it now. There is just no point

Risa - uh....

Nice progression. As Turbine increases the level cap to "grow" the game, they take more away from it....

EllisDee37
07-27-2013, 10:53 PM
Yep, there is literally no reason to bother with risia then I guess. Wonder if they realized this when they changed the way item ML calculates?

Tscheuss
07-27-2013, 11:00 PM
Does it mean that it is WAI, or is it an accident? Were icy kits ever meant to raise ML?

patang01
07-28-2013, 03:02 AM
Please Turbine, reverse this asinine decision. You simply gotta stop destroying all the twink stuff that are now increasing in ML. Come on - I have a few items I use mainly for TRing and this is silly to the extreme. You just made most of them worthless. They're there to be used at lower level - and now they're worthless at their new level due to other named gear.

Wizza
07-28-2013, 03:52 AM
Hm. This sucks for sure.

However, while the biggest benefit of risia was to add Icy burst to a twink item, seeing this whole expansion's loot, I think Risia will be a great addition to the few great random generated loot that you will find for a lv28 char.

The best weapons will be Random gen loot, not named items.

Dandonk
07-28-2013, 03:59 AM
Meh, that sucks. The only real point was that you could get this with no ML increase. The cold damage simply isn't good enough to warrant grinding for if the ML increases.

Andoris
07-28-2013, 09:16 AM
As a little bit of good news, Cannith crafted items are still capped at lvl 20.

My +5 Anarchic Burst of Greater Lawful Outsider bane (silver) are still ML:20, versus the ML: 23 or 25 (metal wraps) that a completely calculated system would make them.

Dendrix
07-28-2013, 09:44 AM
I checked my items and the minimum levels on the Risia icy bursted items have not been changed.

Feather_of_Sun
07-28-2013, 11:27 AM
The Risia Frost and Icy Burst effects no longer add to the total enhancement value of an item, so they do not affect the item's minimum level.

Dandonk
07-28-2013, 01:49 PM
The Risia Frost and Icy Burst effects no longer add to the total enhancement value of an item, so they do not affect the item's minimum level.

This is good news. I hope stone of change recipes do not add to ML, either, after this change?

Tscheuss
07-28-2013, 01:59 PM
The Risia Frost and Icy Burst effects no longer add to the total enhancement value of an item, so they do not affect the item's minimum level.

Awesome response time. Thank you for the fix. :D

EllisDee37
07-28-2013, 05:23 PM
The Risia Frost and Icy Burst effects no longer add to the total enhancement value of an item, so they do not affect the item's minimum level.Impressive. Thanks much!

redspecter23
07-28-2013, 05:52 PM
I'm not on Lam to check right now, but it's possible that the icy effect from the first year that added "frost" instead of "festival frost" may now be adding to the ML of the item. It might explain why one poster saw an increase while another did not. I have a set of +1 flaming of pure good wraps with the old icy burst placed on them. They are level 4 on live but I'd suspect them to be level 10 on Lam if it updates automatically. +2 levels for pure good now being a +2 mod instead of +1 in the past and +4 for icy burst. I'll be disappointed by the change but not surprised at this point.

Edit: Just transferred over to Lam to confirm and the wraps above are now level 10 so it seems that if you have the oldschool icy burst kit applied you will have an extra 4 levels added on to your weapon. I checked a number of weapons that have the current festival icy burst and no extra levels were added. I suppose one could apply a new icy burst kit onto old items since it's supposed to strip any instances of standard frost off of the item when it upgrades. This would lower the min level back down in theory.

Andoris
08-02-2013, 03:37 PM
The Risia Frost and Icy Burst effects no longer add to the total enhancement value of an item, so they do not affect the item's minimum level.

I can confirm that my newer Risia items have the "Festival Frost/Icy Burst" effect and don't have their ML effected. The older Risia items are listed as just "Icy Burst" or "Frost" (no listing of "Festival") and are effected by the higher enhancement value, making them considerably less useful.

I understand that this is likely very difficult to code as it doesn't have the "Festival" label, which I assume is what you are excluding from the new ML calculations. However, is there any way to update the items so they get the proper label? I assume that somewhere in the database is a tag that identifies them as Risia upgrades.

SirShen
08-03-2013, 05:28 AM
The Risia Frost and Icy Burst effects no longer add to the total enhancement value of an item, so they do not affect the item's minimum level.

Wrong - only if it has Festival before it. If its one of the old ones your item now get a nice level increase. I bet you dont have any old items with Risia Frost or Icy Burst on or you would know that it is affecting the minimum level.

Items now on live.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/shenpet/Liveitem2_zps5fa5851a.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/shenpet/media/Liveitem2_zps5fa5851a.jpg.html)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/shenpet/Liveitem3_zpsd9715f3e.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/shenpet/media/Liveitem3_zpsd9715f3e.jpg.html)

Items on Lama after i copy toon over.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/shenpet/Lamaitem2_zpsae30ccb6.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/shenpet/media/Lamaitem2_zpsae30ccb6.jpg.html)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/shenpet/Lamaitem3_zpsf041cbad.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/shenpet/media/Lamaitem3_zpsf041cbad.jpg.html)

You can see the item without festival has gone up 2 levels.

Feather_of_Sun
08-03-2013, 11:56 AM
You can see the item without festival has gone up 2 levels.

As others have already speculated in this thread, we were able to remove the level adjustment from "Festival Frost" and "Festival Icy Burst" because that is a unique effect only obtained from the Ice Games.

Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about items from the very first Risia Ice Games that have regular "Frost" or "Icy Burst" added to them.
That's the same effect that is on tens of thousands of weapons throughout the game- changing it would lower the level of all of them, regardless of if it was added from the festival or not, and we've decided that doing so would not be the correct course of action.

SirShen
08-03-2013, 03:40 PM
As others have already speculated in this thread, we were able to remove the level adjustment from "Festival Frost" and "Festival Icy Burst" because that is a unique effect only obtained from the Ice Games.

Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about items from the very first Risia Ice Games that have regular "Frost" or "Icy Burst" added to them.
That's the same effect that is on tens of thousands of weapons throughout the game- changing it would lower the level of all of them, regardless of if it was added from the festival or not, and we've decided that doing so would not be the correct course of action.

Then you should let us cleanse them and give us back all the recipes and motes to recraft them by contacting an ingame DM, if that cant be done then at least the recipes and motes. I have alot of these old items (as im sure alot of other players have them) and its not my fault your old coding didnt update the old risia ice game items and add festival to them.

It really does feel like F*ck the old players that have been playing for years with this and the bound to account item changes because we all know having +2 str gloves at level one is so over powered.

CeltEireson
08-03-2013, 04:20 PM
Then you should let us cleanse them and give us back all the recipes and motes to recraft them by contacting an ingame DM, if that cant be done then at least the recipes and motes. I have alot of these old items (as im sure alot of other players have them) and its not my fault your old coding didnt update the old risia ice game items and add festival to them.

It really does feel like F*ck the old players that have been playing for years with this and the bound to account item changes because we all know having +2 str gloves at level one is so over powered.

They can't - from what he's saying he means that they cannot differentiate between frost from original risia recipes and standard frost on random loot. So giving an option to cleanse would work on every single weapon in the game with either frost or icy burst on it regardless of source.

redspecter23
08-03-2013, 04:45 PM
They can't - from what he's saying he means that they cannot differentiate between frost from original risia recipes and standard frost on random loot. So giving an option to cleanse would work on every single weapon in the game with either frost or icy burst on it regardless of source.

It's not so much that they can't, but more about it being too much effort to fix the old items. In theory, one could contact a DM who could look at the item and see that it has for example both flaming and frost and the DM could give the player a new festival frost kit which in theory, should be able to be applied to the old item to remove the frost and give it festival frost instead. This should be a theoretical possible fix, but it's probably not worth the time or effort for Turbine. This fix would have to be on a per item basis and require you to prove you need a fix by showing the item. It's slow. It's clunky. But it is possible for some items that have two prefixes, but hard to prove on items that only have frost as a prefix.

Personally, I'm just going to suck it up and apply new festival frost kits to any of my old items in the hopes that it wipes the old frost and fixes the min level. However, I do understand how this could be very annoying to those that put time and effort into these items originally.

Tscheuss
08-03-2013, 05:10 PM
They can't - from what he's saying he means that they cannot differentiate between frost from original risia recipes and standard frost on random loot. So giving an option to cleanse would work on every single weapon in the game with either frost or icy burst on it regardless of source.

That doesn't seem likely on live. The items with original Risia recipes stand out as having a lower than standard ML. One would think to query for frost and icy burst items with lower-than-standard ML would work for items on live because they haven't been corrupted by the change yet.

SirShen
08-03-2013, 05:37 PM
They can't - from what he's saying he means that they cannot differentiate between frost from original risia recipes and standard frost on random loot. So giving an option to cleanse would work on every single weapon in the game with either frost or icy burst on it regardless of source.

Yes i know this already you miss understood what i said, e.g. you put your item in the stone of change with say a scroll of niac's cold ray and cleanse the item but before you do this you show it to a dm and he gives you the motes and recipes to add it after the cleanse.

Tscheuss
08-03-2013, 05:46 PM
Yes i know this already you miss understood what i said, e.g. you put your item in the stone of change with say a scroll of niac's cold ray and cleanse the item but before you do this you show it to a dm and he gives you the motes and recipes to add it after the cleanse.

This would make for very busy DM's. Faster to query the database for all items with Frost OR Icy Burst, filter for those that have under-level ML's, and update them all with Festival tag.

SirShen
08-03-2013, 06:01 PM
This would make for very busy DM's. Faster to query the database for all items with Frost OR Icy Burst, filter for those that have under-level ML's, and update them all with Festival tag.

Yes but will they do that before U19 goes live because thats the only way that would work. I know it might be alot of work for DMs but really i dont care about that because its Turbine making these changes too all items and expecting us to be ok with it after months or even years of play to get these items.

CeltEireson
08-04-2013, 03:08 AM
This would make for very busy DM's. Faster to query the database for all items with Frost OR Icy Burst, filter for those that have under-level ML's, and update them all with Festival tag.

Doh I was obviously not thinking too clearly but yeah that should be fairly straightforward to do - query the database for all items that have frost/icy burst and where the actual min level is less than the normal min level based on the enchantment level, remove the frost/icy burst prefix and apply the festival frost or icy burst. They'd need to factor in those cases where min level is reduced due to either being account bound or race restricted but that shouldn't be too difficult, and not sure how the alchemical rituals would factor in, but should still be doable.

Tscheuss
08-04-2013, 04:59 AM
Yes but will they do that before U19 goes live because thats the only way that would work. I know it might be alot of work for DMs but really i dont care about that because its Turbine making these changes too all items and expecting us to be ok with it after months or even years of play to get these items.

They can. It doesn't mean that they will, but they can.

EllisDee37
08-04-2013, 05:32 AM
query the database for all items that have frost/icy burst and where the actual min level is less than the normal min level based on the enchantment level, remove the frost/icy burst prefix and apply the festival frost or icy burst. They'd need to factor in those cases where min level is reduced due to either being account bound or race restrictedWouldn't those be ideal candidates for putting risia effects on in the first place?

CeltEireson
08-04-2013, 10:07 AM
Wouldn't those be ideal candidates for putting risia effects on in the first place?

Yup, didn't mean they shouldn't do it, just that it might add an extra level of complexity to changing things over. Whether any change of any kind happens is another matter!

Silverleafeon
08-04-2013, 07:30 PM
The original ice games have a particular effect on them that accidently allowed handwraps to have all three effects to be place upon them, and some monks went to a great deal of expense to do so. Messing with the original recipe would be an interesting paradox in due time?

Xaxx
08-05-2013, 02:46 AM
As others have already speculated in this thread, we were able to remove the level adjustment from "Festival Frost" and "Festival Icy Burst" because that is a unique effect only obtained from the Ice Games.

Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about items from the very first Risia Ice Games that have regular "Frost" or "Icy Burst" added to them.
That's the same effect that is on tens of thousands of weapons throughout the game- changing it would lower the level of all of them, regardless of if it was added from the festival or not, and we've decided that doing so would not be the correct course of action.

so those of us who embraced your event the first time out get hammered because you guys are lazy.... yeah yeah yeah this is so flippin typical

SirShen
08-09-2013, 04:38 AM
So is anythink doing to be done about those with the old frost/burst ect?

If nothing is going to be done mybe Risia Ice Games before U19 hits so that those like myself can redo them and not get an item increase?

hit_fido
08-09-2013, 09:19 AM
So is anythink doing to be done about those with the old frost/burst ect?

If nothing is going to be done mybe Risia Ice Games before U19 hits so that those like myself can redo them and not get an item increase?

I would hope that either of the following happen:

a) we can re-frost/burst the item in question at the next risia which should have the expected behavior of removing any existing frost/burst feature and adding festival frost/burst to the item. Then if the new item system works as Feather has described, your item should recalculate minimum level without considering the festival add on and lower itself again. As I recall, replacement of existing frost/burst features was already part of Risia crafting so this may work immediately - no development required.

b) I can't think of any reason other than actual bugs that (a) shouldn't work, but if it doesn't then I would request a simple stone of change recipe to strip off frost and icy burst from any item you insert plus some odd number of shards. That can't be *that* difficult to add.

SirShen
08-09-2013, 01:29 PM
I would hope that either of the following happen:

a) we can re-frost/burst the item in question at the next risia which should have the expected behavior of removing any existing frost/burst feature and adding festival frost/burst to the item. Then if the new item system works as Feather has described, your item should recalculate minimum level without considering the festival add on and lower itself again. As I recall, replacement of existing frost/burst features was already part of Risia crafting so this may work immediately - no development required.

b) I can't think of any reason other than actual bugs that (a) shouldn't work, but if it doesn't then I would request a simple stone of change recipe to strip off frost and icy burst from any item you insert plus some odd number of shards. That can't be *that* difficult to add.

It really looks like they dont care about this at all, it feels like hard poo that you items are gaining levels due to bad programing that was done before i got the job. Really not happy about this and it looks like im the only one that seems to care. Looks like ill just have to sell these items now before this goes live.

Chai
08-09-2013, 01:46 PM
It really looks like they dont care about this at all, it feels like hard poo that you items are gaining levels due to bad programing that was done before i got the job. Really not happy about this and it looks like im the only one that seems to care. Looks like ill just have to sell these items now before this goes live.

...and let someone else who is completely unsuspecting deal with the level increase.

Nice.

hit_fido
08-09-2013, 02:16 PM
It really looks like they dont care about this at all, it feels like hard poo that you items are gaining levels due to bad programing that was done before i got the job. Really not happy about this and it looks like im the only one that seems to care. Looks like ill just have to sell these items now before this goes live.

This thread actually got a dev response in it which says something different that "they dont care about this at all".

Wait and see if (a) ends up working - it seems like it should. If it doesn't then personally my next effort will be raising the issue of (b) again and hoping they'll take whatever small effort it is to give us a way to strip frost and icy burst from a weapon. That's us asking for a way to nerf our own loot. Surely they wont pass up on the opportunity.

SirShen
08-09-2013, 05:59 PM
This thread actually got a dev response in it which says something different that "they dont care about this at all".

Wait and see if (a) ends up working - it seems like it should. If it doesn't then personally my next effort will be raising the issue of (b) again and hoping they'll take whatever small effort it is to give us a way to strip frost and icy burst from a weapon. That's us asking for a way to nerf our own loot. Surely they wont pass up on the opportunity.

Were is this Dev post you are talking about? because the only one i can see is there is nothing we can do post?

Already gone on Lama nothing has changed still increase to level.

Anyway that is it for me in this matter, nothing will be done and nothing is going to be done.

moomooprincess
08-13-2013, 07:22 PM
The Risia Frost and Icy Burst effects no longer add to the total enhancement value of an item, so they do not affect the item's minimum level.

But adding Icy Burst to weapons in the past never did.

I hope this remains true.

And as I continued to read, all the weapons that do NOT have FESTIVAL on them are going to be raised in ML. This means, just about all of my weapons on two servers are going to be jacked up.

Example, my level 6 race restricted, +5 Khopesh with Icy Burst on it, now becomes a level 10. Which completely ruins my game experience.

Wow, another spike driven through my gaming heart.

I think I am beginning to get the hint.

LightBear
08-14-2013, 02:18 AM
snip

Could we get a way to update our items?

Anybody tried to add Festifal Icyburst to an item that has the old Icy Burst on it without the Festival wording on it?
Would be fun to see if it stacks and if it works. ;)
If it does not all our old items are lost, in fact they would have gained in value.

hit_fido
08-14-2013, 07:35 AM
Could we get a way to update our items?

Anybody tried to add Festifal Icyburst to an item that has the old Icy Burst on it without the Festival wording on it?
Would be fun to see if it stacks and if it works. ;)
If it does not all our old items are lost, in fact they would have gained in value.

As I recall the way the recipes work is they will remove any pre-existing frost and icy burst effects and replace them with festival frost and festival icy burst. The wiki seems to confirm this memory.

So...

If: very old risia items had a "standard" frost and icy burst added to the item which to the system looks like any other randomly generated frost and icy burst item (the reason given as to why those can't be handled as a special case)

and

If: risia recipes continue to remove/replace the "standard" frost and icy burst features

and

If: the loot system will recalculate minimum levels as Feather described

Then: the (a) case in my post above should work - that is, wait for Risia, reapply an icy burst to your item, and it should drop back down in minimum level by way of removing the plain old icy burst feature. It's not ideal, but it also means those items are not irretrievably ruined.

Tscheuss
08-14-2013, 01:11 PM
It is a shame that the devs didn't run a pass to autoconvert the old Risia buffs to Festival versions before making this ML calculating change. *sigh*

CeltEireson
08-14-2013, 01:20 PM
It is a shame that the devs didn't run a pass to autoconvert the old Risia buffs to Festival versions before making this ML calculating change. *sigh*

Aye it would, and if theyre applying a standard rule of calculation of min level across all non-named items now then there's likely to be number of bound-to-account items that are also affected, particularly me rings from the Reign of Madness series - +6 dex ring with no min level was rather useful, ah well, not so easy come, easy go ;)

Zzevel
08-14-2013, 01:35 PM
They can't - from what he's saying he means that they cannot differentiate between frost from original risia recipes and standard frost on random loot. So giving an option to cleanse would work on every single weapon in the game with either frost or icy burst on it regardless of source.

They can, it is pretty simple as mentioned above. it's not like the whole generate the 'level of an item' concept is new.. run a script that runs against the player DB, or against the player when they log in, that looks at all player files for weapons with they risa icy prefaces and validate them against the old level code. If it is not RR or BTA/C and 2, 4 levels off the code, flag it as festival or remove it and dump the ingredients back in the player inventory.

Better yet put in an alter where the Boston ribbon thing was (coded in < a day?) for a limited time before the update that a person can put the item in to get the ingredients back, make it a big PURPLE Barney Dopant for all I care.

I have MANY first Festival items I had to grind out before the cheaters found out how to jump off buildings and ship masts to steal your coins. I refuse to grind vs the cheaters now just because of this and will not remake all of my, now WORTHLESS, items because someone didnt feel like 15 minuets of devel time to write a script that affects thousands of players and probably 10x as many items. <insert old "take of icy burst from one item.." joke here>