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OverlordOfRats
07-25-2013, 11:46 PM
I think that the racial trees right now do not work well with the class trees. The points spent in tree and the arrows are too restrictive for the racial trees.

The class trees should be where the majority of points are spent. This is what the character trains for and does while adventuring. The racial trees should be for bolstering a weak area or for flavor, not for spending a large amount of APs in. With the current layout you have to spend 20 APs just to unlock a tier four racial ability. That is 1/4 of the total APs a character gets and you still need to spend more APs to actually take that tier four ability.

I think that the solution is to make the racial tree enhancements cost less AP and make them easier to get, not lowering the cost for the class trees. I feel that lowering the cost in the class trees to allow more points in the racial trees will not work. Most people will just spend more in the class trees and the racial trees will still have the problems they do now.

I propose the following solutions.

Change the character levels for each tier to 1,2,4,8,16 to match the core enhancements or 1,3,5,10,15 for a more medium progression or 1,5,10,15,20 to spread them out over the entire heroic levels.
Change APs spent in tree to 0,1,2,3,4 or 0,2,4,6,8 for the tiers.
You still have to be a certain character level and spend at least some APs to reach the higher tiers, but it is not a prohibitive cost.

Make all enhancements cost 1 AP and remove the up arrows.
Some of the side facing arrows may need to remain (1/2 Elf dilettante special abilities springs to mind, but the up arrows for them could still be removed, see Add in bonuses farther down). Move enhancements up or down tiers depending on power or tone down if too powerful for tier five still. If the tier five enhancements are still too strong make them 2APs. By removing the arrows, you remove dead space in the tree and make it easier to get the racial enhancements for the character. Human Improved Recovery is an example of dead space. Tier two in that line is blank with an up arrow through it. Also, without the arrows and lower APs spent in tree it could be made Tier one, three, and five.

Spread the Dragon Mark focus amongst the marks themselves.
Yes they can take only the tier 4 when they get to that character level. But unless they take the other two also, they are limited to only two per rest and had to spend a feat and 4 or 7 APs. If that is still to powerful, move it to tier five instead. Then the highest level Dragon Mark would cost a feat and 5 or 9 APs.

Reduce the number of levels per enhancement to either 1 or 2.
Remove the level 1 bonus and move the level two and three bonuses down a level. If an enhancement has a penalty, keep the level 1 and 2 penalty and remove the level 3 penalty. An example: Human Action Surge - Strength at level 1 gives a +1 to STR. This only helps if you have an odd stat. If it is changed to +2 at level 1 and +3 at level 2, level one helps anyone whether the stat is odd or even and level 2 gives someone with an odd stat an extra +1 for 1 more AP.

Add in bonuses for taking more than one of a similar enhancement.
An example: Improved Dilettante: Spellcaster: For item purposes you are now treated as having +2 levels to your Spellcaster class (or your character level, which ever is lower). If you posses 2 Improved Dilettante: Spellcaster enhancements you gain an extra level to your Improved Dilettante: Spellcaster level for a total of 6. If you posses 3 Improved Dilettante: Spellcaster enhancements you gain an extra 3 levels to your Improved Dilettante: Spellcaster level for a total of 10.

If it is an easy fix, remove the requirement for the previous core enhancement to have been taken in order to take the next one and just keep the character level gating on the core enhancements.
This way the core enhancements can still cost 1 AP and be restricted by character level, but the character is not forced to take ones they do not want.

To summarize:
This would make it easier for characters to take the racial enhancements by removing the high cost of APs spent in tree and reducing multiple levels per enhancement. It would make it easier for characters to take racial enhancements and for developers to move racial enhancements up or down tiers by removing the arrows. It gives more choice by allowing characters to take the racial enhancements they want, but gaining bonuses by taking more of the same racial enhancement.

Finally it would allow for some more flavorful racial enhancements that not everyone would use but would not pull to many points from the class trees to take.

A couple examples:

Halfling Play Dead - (Tier five - Cost 1AP - Requires 4AP spent in tree and character level 15 - Active ability - 1 minute cool down): When activated you fall to the ground for two seconds. You have a fifty % chance + your Bluff or Perform Skill (whichever is higher) to convince the monsters you are dead. If successful, the monsters argo goes to zero and they leave you alone and attack other party members. If there are no other party members alive they will return to their starting locations. You may play dead as long as you want. Moving will end this and allow you to get up.

Dwarven / Halforc Stench - (Tier 5 - Cost 1AP - Requires 4AP spent in tree and character level 15 and Charisma 6(Not just base, items, spells and enhancements count towards this) - Passive ability): Due to your lack of social skills you haven't taken a bath in a long while. Consequently any monster that has a sense of smell will have it's movement and attack rate reduced by 10% when within 5 meters of you. If your charisma is raised above 6 this ability is dispelled until you rest.

I'm Not Dead Yet - Human - (Tier5 - Cost 1AP - Requires 4AP spent in tree and character level 15 - Passive ability): When incapacitated your range of unconsciousness extends to 100 hit points and you gain a +25 bonus to Physical Resistance Rating. You babble causing the monsters to argo on you and attack you trying to shut you up.


Please comment if you think these suggestions are good or bad and why.


P.S. I promise to shut up now with this last note. If you got a chuckle out of the three examples above, you're welcome. If you spit you're favorite drink over you're keyboard or monitor, I am sorry. If you failed you're humor check and think these are a complete waste of developer time, please feel free to reroll you're humor check until you pass.

Delacroix21
07-30-2013, 03:48 AM
They could also entice racial trees by making EVERY racial enhancement cost 1ap. That way racial trees will feel very cheap on APs, and not hurt class trees as much.

nayozz
08-12-2013, 11:40 AM
or just make characters get 100ap to spend instead of 80 (so leveling up from 1 to 2 gives 5ap total)

(another solution is having 20ap fixed on race only, and 80 that can be used on classes or races)

OverlordOfRats
08-12-2013, 06:20 PM
or just make characters get 100ap to spend instead of 80 (so leveling up from 1 to 2 gives 5ap total)

(another solution is having 20ap fixed on race only, and 80 that can be used on classes or races)

I do not think a straight 100 would work. It would still have the same problem of cost in Racial trees. I think people would just spend the 100 in class trees.

Race only APs would be nice if they don't take away from the ones that can be used for classes.