View Full Version : The Green Juggernaut - Please critique

07-23-2013, 06:07 PM
Inspired by Arti Juggernaut. This build can self heal with quickened heal spells. Use manyshot for burst damage and has decent two handed fighting with staffs while centred. It has evasion, decent reflex saves and sneak attack. For icing on the cake it gets rogue skills and UMD.

(Partly for flavor and partly due to the focus on staffs this build will probably not use animal forms much.)

This build will take advantage of the new update 19 enhancements.

Elf is used because it gives dex damage to bows. Rogue Acrobat is used because it gives dex damage to staffs. Monk is needed to add extra feats and it also gives damage to staffs.
Total extra staff modifiers from rogue and monk levels will be (+2+3 Henshin Mystic) + (+3+4Acrobat) = +5+7.

Rogue Acrobat gives some nice abilities especially faster staff attacks and some decent attacks. Monk (Henshin) gives vulnerability to fire / cold which will be useful in elemental form and staff attacks. Monk ninja will give sneak attack bonus.
Druid (Nature's Warrior) get some nice defensive enhancements, stances, spells, healing and offensive buffs especially in elemental form. Druid's also get shillelagh which will boost the staff damage by [1].

Issues: This build won't get THF feats or Overwhelming Critical because of str requirements. The three rogue levels need to be taken fairly early for the dex to damage enhancement. The two monk levels need to be taken early because the only useful martial arts feats are toughness and power attack.
Cleave and Great Cleave are used to compensate for the lack of AOE damage from the THF feats.
There are many nice attacks from the new enhancements too.

Epic feats chosen from precise shot / improved precise shot / improved crit: ranged / empower heal

This build will be a spell boosted staff wielding elemental who can self heal and many shot the snot out of baddies.

I accept it won't be as powerful as a regular juggernaut but it will be above average and fun. (And not a toaster)
I think it will work but am not sure as I have never played a Druid seriously which is why I have posted it for criticism.

I will probably tr a two life rogue into this.

Please critique:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Elf Male
(2 Monk \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Druid)
Hit Points: 256
Spell Points: 907
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 18
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 16
Dexterity 17 24
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 14 16
Wisdom 14 16
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 16
Bluff -1 0
Concentration 2 3
Diplomacy -1 0
Disable Device 6 26
Haggle -1 0
Heal 4 24
Hide 3 7
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 6 7
Listen 2 5
Move Silently 3 7
Open Lock 7 16
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 3
Search 6 28
Spot 6 14
Swim 6 7
Tumble 7 11
Use Magic Device 3 23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot

Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack

Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave

Level 4 (Rogue)

Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf

Level 7 (Rogue)

Level 8 (Druid)

Level 9 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave

Level 10 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear

Level 11 (Druid)

Level 12 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons

Level 13 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf

Level 14 (Druid)

Level 15 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot

Level 16 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear

Level 17 (Druid)

Level 18 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Fire Elemental

Level 19 (Druid)

Level 20 (Druid)

07-23-2013, 10:35 PM
All of these suggestions are with the new enhancement pass coming, i do not have access to closed beta so my only information is from the wiki which may be obsolete.

First off i suggest you switch to 3 monk 2 rogue. 3 monk allows you to use dex for damage with piercing and slashing weapons while centered. This combined with zen archery allows you to skip bow strength and saves you 2 feats. Unfortunately it cuts into you dex to quarterstaff damage. However I think you should re-think using quarterstaffs at all, unless you can get 5 lvls in monk or rogue for the quarterstaff capstone (which is amazing). Consider instead using wolf form.

Wolf form vs quarterstaff:
crit mod: 19-20/x3 .... 20/x2 (or 18-20/x2 with better staff)
Damge mod: 1*dex .... 1*dex (you don't get a 1.5 times dex)
attack speed: 1.3 of base ... 1.15 of base (bases may be a bit different)
power attack: +5 dmg .... +10 dmg
Extra attacks: This is the big difference in my thoughts, wolf form gives access to stunning fist, while quarterstaff gives access to quick strike (25% moral bonus to double strike).

Basically its quite possible that wolf form could in fact to more dmg than a quarterstaff if you unable to access tear 5 abilities. Dont worry to much about the 2hf feats, q-staffs dont have glancing blows anyways.

Consider this feet setup:
rapid shot
point blank shot
IC: blunt
empower healing
zen archery
+2 more ... stunning fist, IC piercing, PS + IPS?

focus on dex and con. Wisdom to if your going for stunning fist.

Another thing to consider is 15 druid. I know 15 druid gives you heal but from personal experence I find that regenerate is a better healing spell, especially with heal amp. That only requires 13 druid. I would consider dropping down to 13 druid or going upto 17 for snowslide if your thinking about wolf form.

My build suggestion would be to run 13 druid/6 monk/1 rogue dwarf (hp and tactics - if stunning fist, human otherwise). You might also ask yourself why rogue at all, druid is probably the class that least needs UMD, you get evasion from monk, and you may or may not have enough skill points for trap skills.

PS: since you have manyshot you may quite often end up in fury of the wild destiny for raiding, which means your heal/regen spells will be capped even if you take 13 druid levels.

Short version:
wolf from > quarterstaff
13 druid > 15 druid
3 monk > 2 monk
consider dumping rogue

PS: I would like to see a damage comparison sometime of a toon with capstones sireth (13-20/x3) vs non-capstones (15-20/x2) vs wolf form (17-20/x3)

07-24-2013, 01:00 AM
I don't know anything about druid, but if not using wolf form you only need 11/12 cleric/fvs levels to get heal, opening up a "full" 5-level splash in either monk or rogue with another 3 levels in the other.

07-24-2013, 01:12 AM
I like it! There is a ton of quarterstaff synergy between the three classes in the enhancement pass.

07-25-2013, 03:18 AM
I like it! There is a ton of quarterstaff synergy between the three classes in the enhancement pass.

To me the key of a dex based elf druid version is to fight as an elemental, with immunities and the 100% fortification base with spells to enhance that elemental shape. sorta like being warforged. When you use your weapons you keep all your weapon abilities along with temp effects like shillelagh for q-staff or other temp weapon effects for bow and don't have to take natural fighting feats. You can add in (cost 4 AP) arcane archer to get blunt/slashing/metalline arrow effects when needed, as well as conjuring return arrows and lots of other AA goodies. As an AA your bow will add spell power (if you go real deep into that tree) so you don't loose as much SP when you need to cast a spell with it equipped.

The point of the jugg is that it relies on manyshot for a lot of damage, sometimes alternating with X-bows with endless fusillade, and then melee as needed. Fusillade is right out but you must have manyshot. So the two monk levels won't help getting it since the prerequisites, point blank shot and rapid shot are not in the monk bonus feats.

Taking two ranger levels instead of monk you loose the monk AC bonus, two monk martial feats and other monk goodies and enhancements, but only have to take one feat (since you get rapid shot free) to qualify for manyshot. There are also some nice light armors you can now use w/o worrying about not being centered, and get almost the same AC (if not better) with more armor choices. For added bonuses, no wasted AP to take the AA enhancement tree, and since you get bow strength feat from ranger, you can now (I believe) add your strength along with dex to bow damage. You should be able to out DPS the jugg (in manyshot at least) if this is the case. Lastly, two weapon fighting feat and enhancements from ranger work nicely with wild animal shapes while leveling and later with some epic destinies for yet more flexibility.

Overall, not sure which way is better. Ranger instead of monk you will loose one feat, less q-staff damage, but will do more bow damage (and more sneak bow damage) which really adds up with manyshot, but weaker melee. Depends if you like melee or ranged better for which way to go.

In either case, you don't need need zen archery since it only helps to hit and I don't think with good dex and enhancements that hitting is going to be a problem since dex should be higher than wisdom and it will not help with damage, assuming you are a primary melee/archer over caster and even then, your too feat starved to take it.

In comparison to the original jugg, the Greenjugg will do more ranged damage but less melee damage, less trapping/umd skills, fewer feats, and a lot less HP (no racial con/HP bonuses and elf start with -2 con) but with better AC/dodge for what it's worth. It's not going to be as balanced as the jugg and weaker overall mainly because less PRR, feats, and HP which are critical for a melee build. Still, it will have both ranged and melee sneak attack damage so therefore more overall ranged damage, maybe a lot more. Druid levels also have a lot more spells than artificers for defense, offense, group healing and buffs, with good CC spells like earthquake. In the end, both builds are viable, fun and flexible in both solo and groups.

Another version, call it the light greenjugg, is an Elf 3/17 or 2/18 Rouge/Druid. You gain 9th level spells (and pet levels) and more flexibility with two elemental shapes, more spell points and spell power depending on spent enhancements. However, without ranger levels or monk levels your melee and ranged damage is less. You can play like a caster using a bow to conserve spell points. I tested this, works pretty well since AA will get you back some spell points and power you lost by not spending them in druid tree.

08-02-2013, 04:51 PM
Thank You for the advice!
(Sry it took so long to reply I haven't been able to log back into this post for a few weeks!)

So I made a Green Juggernaut on Lamminia....

I went to lvl 20 with no epic destinies. For gear I used the epic abishai set which isn't that great.
I tested it on Chronoscope Epic Normal. I was able to do the first few fights but was killed by Bloodplate in the bank. I thought this was pretty good. With better gear and a bit more practice playing the character I feel I could have got past Bloodplate.

Yes low hit points were an issue but with gear and primal epic destiny it would have been easier. I did chew through the mana quickly with the archers hitting me but again with gear this would not have been so hard.

But the main issue was.... ELVES DO NOT GET DEX TO DAMAGE WITH BOWS. This was taken out. So options are to go for 5 rogue which will give the awesome staff ability - +1 crit range etc. But it would mean no manyshot.

08-02-2013, 09:10 PM
Unless Turbine lifted the NDA, ix-nay on the ami-Lay discussion in the public forums. That's what the eta-bay forums (https://www.ddo.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/9-Lamannia-Server) are for. :cool:

08-11-2013, 03:16 AM
I am making one of these.

I would already be in epic levels again, but I took a few weeks off from DDO (I needed a break lol).

With mine, I am taking 17 druid, 2 monk, 1 wizard, and I will swap the wiz for ranger once the enhancement pass comes. The feats are a pain to fit in.

My goal is to get Overwhelming Critical with Manyshot and have as much wisdom as I can. Right now I can only fit in Maximize, but will probably be able to fit in empower and quicken with the new system. I want wisdom to make my AOE's more potent.

I did manage to get the enhancements to work (sort of) using what I could find on the forums and ddo wiki about the new system, but I will have to make changes once if finally gets released.

I call mine a "True Sylvan Warrior" opposed to a "Green Juggernut".

I had a lot of fun when I made my 13 druid moncher, and that was my inspiration for the build. Having planned this build long before the Juggernut became popular, I do not consider mine a copy, but it is the easiest way to explain my build to the scrutenizing uber raid leaders. :)

It is a lot of fun so far. I did have to stock up on more divine power clickies than I normally would, but epic levels will fix that problem.

Cya around the playground! :)

My character is Jyni on Thelanis.