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Nimulos
07-21-2013, 02:55 PM
I had this idea of a cleric completely and utterly devoted to healing and helping the party. He would be very bad without a dps-dealing teammate and thus not very soloable, but that is not my goal anyways. He would naturally be a radiant servant, but since that only goes two levels (until lvl 12 cleric) I would have some space to splash something in. Should I? What (I don't have druid, fvs or artificier)? Where?
I would propably start with:
Half Elf Cleric
STR 12
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 16
CHA 15
Split skill points between Heal and Concentration, later propably more towards concentration for the sake of healing undisturbedly and because I need to get enhancements for heal anyways for my PRE.
Feats would be Empower Healing Spell and Sorcerer Dilettante for some sorcery buff wands and scrolls.
Enhancements are adaptable, so I would take care of that later.

What do you think? Should I change something? How should I go on? Should I splash? Why/Why not?

EllisDee37
07-21-2013, 03:33 PM
That's probably fine; a healbot cleric doesn't particularly need anything because it doesn't particularly do anything, so the starting stats have lots of flexibility.

The primary role of a healbot is staying alive; to that end I'd recommend sword & board with heavy armor to max out your PRR. For feats, let's see, you get 7 heroic feats and two epic. I'd go with something like:

1: Toughness
3: Empower Healing Spell
6: Quicken
9: Maximize (for radiant servant burst)
12: Mental Toughness
15: Improved Mental Toughness
18: Shield Mastery
21: Epic Mental Toughness
24: Improved Shield Mastery
27: Enlarge (once xpack goes live)

As a healbot, definitely stay pure to get the capstone.

EDIT: Added enlarge.

unbongwah
07-21-2013, 07:16 PM
Caveat: I'm biased against pure healbots, because I think you're pigeonholing yourself too much into a single role. Every cleric is capable of doing decent DPS using the "holy trinity" of single-target light spells (Nimbus/Searing/Divine Punishment), because they have no saves; thus they don't depend on your WIS or investing in DC / Spell Pen boosts like other offensive spells. DC-based casting is trickier and requires a more substantial investment, but it is doable on a first life; and melee BCs really only need a couple of feats to have at least some DPS.

That said, if I was going to do a healbot, I'd do one focused on survivability as well as healing. Something like this build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/420254-Looking-for-a-Dwarf-Cleric-Radiant-Servant-Healbot-build-for-current-Updates?p=5043813&viewfull=1#post5043813) I posted recently: the pally splash boosts saves (Divine Grace) along with dwarven Spell Defense; the Shield Mastery feats boost PRR (& doublestrike for occasional melee); and the Toughness feats boost HPs, of course. I'm hopeful we'll be able to add some Dwarven Defender enhs to boost survivability further once the Enhancement overhaul goes live, but I'm trying not to get too far ahead of myself.

unbongwah
07-21-2013, 07:24 PM
Split skill points between Heal and Concentration, later propably more towards concentration for the sake of healing undisturbedly and because I need to get enhancements for heal anyways for my PRE.
First off, Concentration should be maxed out on every caster, IMHO. Second, Heal skill is currently basically useless; however, one of the changes in the Enhancement alpha was that the Heal skill boosts Spellpower, as does Repair, Perform, and Spellcraft (new skill, mostly affects caster DPS). But since we're supposed to get free LRs to let us fix our chars once the Enhancement overhaul goes live, I see no reason to add the Heal skill now.

Qaliya
07-21-2013, 07:32 PM
Irrespective of other suggestions, take the divine vitality line. You will make a lot of friends. :)

EllisDee37
07-21-2013, 10:29 PM
Caveat: I'm biased against pure healbots, because I think you're pigeonholing yourself too much into a single role.Given that this will be pigeonholed into a narrow role, doesn't it make sense to stay pure for the capstone?

For saves, helf with pally dilly can get you +5.

SirValentine
07-22-2013, 05:04 AM
That's probably fine; a healbot cleric doesn't particularly need anything because it doesn't particularly do anything, so the starting stats have lots of flexibility.


That is true as far as it goes, but I like to suggest people new to the class go with another BUILD, either caster or melee, even if they are currently THINK they want to be a healbot. Just so they can grow into contributing more as they learn the play of the class, without having to do a reincarnation first.

Now, a vet just rolling up a guild-raid healbot is a different ballgame, of course, since they don't ever intend to actually PLAY the thing.



For feats, let's see, you get 7 heroic feats and two epic. I'd go with something like:

1: Toughness
3: Empower Healing Spell
6: Quicken
9: Maximize (for radiant servant burst)
12: Mental Toughness
15: Improved Mental Toughness
18: Shield Mastery
21: Epic Mental Toughness
24: Improved Shield Mastery


I shudder at all those Mental Toughness feats, for the reason above. :-)

Toughness used to be super-valuable, but the x-pack is hitting very soon now, and it'll be much weaker then. I doubt that it's still worth a feat for most builds.

I would think Empower would also be worthwhile, again for Positive Energy Burst, etc..

Soulfurnace
07-22-2013, 05:28 AM
We get an LR+20 on release. Take thy toughness like a good healbot, just don't bother after the enhancement pass.

susiedupfer
07-22-2013, 05:42 AM
I am with Sir Valentine on the why build a healbot issue. But, since that was not your question, let me try to answer what you did ask.

Race: Why Helf? You lose a feat, and truthfully gain little IMHO. I use Humans.

Stats- Click Wis, and hold down the button until the numbers stop going up. Then, be sure you have 14 in Cha and Con. I would put the rest into Str. Ray of Enfeeblement on a cleric in full plate is not a pretty thing.

Skill points: As mentioned above, Heal skill is useless. Concentration is good until you get Quicken. Balance and Jump are EXTREMELY important. Lifesaving even. You see, you can't heal from flat on your back. Neither can you heal if you are dead from not being able to get up to a safer spot. I would put a couple points(for one full point) into Tumble to mitigate falling damage. I would even put a couple of points into Swim. Clerics jump and swim like rocks. Worse in full plate.

Feats: I am all alone in this opinion, but you need spell points. LOTS of spell points. Especially on a new cleric. Every spell point you can get your hands on. Having said that, take every Mental Toughness you can. Not all at level one, mind you, but reasonably soon. I would take the following, in this order:

Toughness
Mental Toughness
Empower Healing Spell
Quicken
Maximize
Improved Mental Toughness

After that, it is up to you. I, personally would take Spell Focus Evocation, and GSFEvo. If you will be meleeing some, then lean your next feats that way.

Moltier
07-22-2013, 06:05 AM
I made one healbot, just in case my healer bard is on timer.
I made mine dwarf, because the extra saves vs spells, and the higher hp. Helf isnt too bad, while human is. The extra feat dont give you much.
A first life cleric with cheap gear can heal anything. What matters is if the cleric can survive, or can save or get up after a cometfall. Or save vs any other nasty spells.

If you have basic or avarage gear, a pure dwarf cleric with high CON, some dex, wis and charisma will be enough. Just dont max any stat at the creation.

If you can gear your healbot up with good items, 18cleric/2 paladin might be a good option. Capstone is junk atm, and the extra saves from charisma will make you near immortal.

Its not fun, but its effective when healing matters.

Nimulos
07-22-2013, 08:37 AM
Well, thanks for all the responses, imma try and gather everything up:

EllisDee37:
Thanks for quickly providing a clean, nice build, looks good. And if I ever get to the epic levels I will have an idea what to take too :P
Good point with the Capstone though, also I don't like multiclassing if I have a reason not to.

unbongwah:
"pigeonholing yourself too much into a single role": Whenever I tried to make something capable of various roles it was an utter failure, so I wanna try how focussing on one works out.
Thanks for telling me about that holy trinity of offensive spells, never heard that before and it seems to make sense. I will definetly keep it in mind as secondary function.

Also good point about the healing and concentration. But doesn't healing increase the hitpoints recovered at a shrine? but propably that's the only use (so far) and I can always waste my remaining mana (after rebuffing) to heal up a little and maybe some Positive Energy Burst and use wands afterwards if there is anything left to be done.

About that build: I personally don't like playing dwarves.

Qaliya:
Never planned anything else :P
I have a Wizard too and know how much I love mana restore - I always tend to run out of mana before the next shrine :D

EllisDee37 again:
That pally dilly sounds good, I must admit I had totally neglected saves in my line of thinking, wich is propably why I fail that much :

SirValentine:
It is not my first time, I rolled several clerics but I felt like Eberron needed more priests devoted to healing and that's why we all came here.

Mental Toughness should help me spamming out empowered quickened heals to keep everyone alive, wich, as one might notice, is my primary goal.

Toughness is handy for the enhancements granting me more survivability, again to stay alive and healing longer.

susiedupfer:
For the why, see above.

Race: because of pally dilly wich grants me better saves etc.
Stats: Truth there, gonna take it into account.
Balance and Jump? hm... never thought of them... Sounds logical though, I will take it into account. So I basically only take concentration until I get quicken and afterwards I got for Balance and Jump, maybe some swim and a handfull of tumble?

Moltier:
I am first life. I don't actually plan to rush for TR, I don't understand why everyone is so competitive. I usually play games to enjoy them, not to max out my effectiveness at becoming great and powerfull, because that is a much shorter joy (at least for me) than having fun on the (longer) way. Also, my position on dwarves see above.

The gear thing depends on what I find along my journey, so not much to say about that. I don't think the capstone is that bad though, it may provide me with just the time I need to save the tank.

"Its not fun, but its effective when healing matters." NOPE. I want fun. I am gratefull for your concerns towards my effectiveness, but fun is my top priority when playing games.


Thanks everyone for your time, I am rolling him now and hope I can fix any errors that may have snuck in with the LR.

unbongwah
07-22-2013, 08:40 AM
Given that this will be pigeonholed into a narrow role, doesn't it make sense to stay pure for the capstone?
A heal bot has two functions: (A) heal the party; (B) stay alive so it can do (A). Staying pure & investing in Mental Toughness feats helps with (A); taking a pally splash and investing in Shield Mastery & Toughness feats helps with (B).

For saves, helf with pally dilly can get you +5.
That only provides parity with Dwarven Spell Defense, which is +5 to saves vs spells (I'm presuming saves vs traps isn't a factor); and dwarf w/pally splash has DWD and full CHA bonus to saves. In the case of the build I linked, CHA would be something like base 14 + 6 lvl-ups + 2 enhs + 2 tome + 8 item = 32 (+11 to saves). Factor in ship buffs, +4 tome, Yugo pots, exceptional CHA, etc. and you're talking +15 or more. Considering how important saves are to endgame these days, that's a pretty big bonus, IMHO. Going CHA-based also means plenty of extra TUs for auras / bursts, which should save on regular Mass Cures / Heals, which should save SPs, which should compensate for splashing and not having Mental Toughness.

Like I said, it's not an approach I would take because I hate pigeon-holing myself as a healbot. But if you're trying to minmax for a healer role in EEs on a first life, I think the pally splash works out fairly well.

Nimulos
07-22-2013, 11:28 AM
1. Again, I refuse to play dwarves, no matter how much better it would be. I just don't like them, not because of what boni they have, but because I don't like them, easy as that :)

2. I keep hearing the word engame like it is normal to get there fast. If I ever get endgame with that char, much time will have passed and maybe a bunch of things will have changed.

3. First life sounds like more have to come. Is there a reason I ultimately need to TR?

4. I want the capstone, JFF.

I mentioned before, I play this for fun, not to rush to a top-quality char as fast as possible. If it turn out that the char is no fun anymore I will either delete him and roll another, or, if level 20 I might actually TR and see what else I could try. I see the fun in trying things, seeing how they turn out. If he does turn out to be effective with the build I gathered now I will keep him, if not...

enochiancub
07-22-2013, 12:47 PM
1. Thankfully you can play whatever race you want. Regardless of "optimized builds" that a lot of folk seem to insist on.

2. I'll never reach end game on any of my toons, so I feel you.

3. No, there is no need to ever TR if it doesn't appeal to you.


I really really like your mentality, it's more refreshing than I can express and I hope you enjoy your time in DDO.

Miow
07-22-2013, 12:53 PM
Good idea though only the strongs will survive. ;)

Fedora1
07-22-2013, 01:40 PM
1: Toughness
3: Empower Healing Spell
6: Quicken
9: Maximize (for radiant servant burst)
12: Mental Toughness
15: Improved Mental Toughness
18: Shield Mastery
21: Epic Mental Toughness
24: Improved Shield Mastery

*Snap*

Maximize affects radiant bursts?

Well I am playing my first cleric (yes he's a *groan* battle cleric of sorts, I know everyone hates battle clerics) and he is Cleric 9/Fighter2. I have empower heal but not maximize. How is it I didn't know maximize works with radiant bursts? Research fail.... Do maximize and empower heal both work with (and stack) for radiant bursts?

Fedora1
07-22-2013, 01:45 PM
Balance and Jump are EXTREMELY important. Lifesaving even.

Agreed.
My cleric only has two defensive weaknesses (he solo's 90%).

1. Traps
2. Getting knocked down

The solutions for number one are:

a. Bring a rogue.
b. Avoid quests with traps.


Solution for number two:

a. Strength (for saves against trip)
b. Balance (to get back up quicker)

unbongwah
07-22-2013, 03:07 PM
Maximize affects radiant bursts?
Yup, as does Empower.

EllisDee37
07-22-2013, 05:06 PM
I shudder at all those Mental Toughness feats, for the reason above. :-)Same; my cleric doesn't take any. It's worth noting that each one gives 1% spell crit chance once the new xpack goes live. (I think.)


Do maximize and empower heal both work with (and stack) for radiant bursts?Yep, they all work (for free) and stack: maximize, empower healing spell, and empower.


Whenever I tried to make something capable of various roles it was an utter failure, so I wanna try how focussing on one works out.I misunderstood the OP, then. For some reason I was under the impression that you were looking to toss together a guild raid healer.

After reading the above quote, I might suggest a build that can do more than just heal. One idea to read through (even if not adopting the build, maybe get some ideas) is the necro cleric build linked in my signature.

In any case, I forgot a key feat: Enlarge. Can be very helpful in raid healing, particularly in FoT and LoB. I typically like to take it as the level 24 feat because I generally don't like to heal those raids until cap anyway. Since the level cap is raising to 28 in a few weeks I edited my first post to add Enlarge as the level 27 feat.

Odysseus2011
07-23-2013, 02:56 AM
I had this idea of a cleric completely and utterly devoted to healing and helping the party.

First off if you want to be utterly devoted to healing and helping the party your number 1 priority is to stay alive, to do this I would suggest the following starting stats (36 point build).

Strength-8
Dexterity-17
Constitution-17 [6 level up points here]
Intelligence-8
Wisdom-15
Charisma-10

While the lower wisdom might seem counter intuitive on a a cleric in fact it works quite the opposite, with a higher constitution/dexterity you will be able to survive heavy hits from bosses and high level mobs, and also make the necessary reflex saves to make sure that the traps don't kill you.

When choosing skills I would pick them in this order
1)UMD
2)Concentration
3)Balance

Clerics don't get alot of skill points and those 3 skills are about all you will need, UMD is nice for fireshield scrolls to help in those special circumstances.

For feats
-Empower Healing
-Mental Toughness/Epic Mental Toughness
-Toughness (x2)/Epic Toughness
-Helf Dilettante (Barbarian for more HP, Paladin for higher saves)
-Quicken Spell
-Lightning Reflexes

Personally I use the Barbarian Dilenttante because the saves of this build are already high enough that they can overdo alot of endgame DCs

The mental toughness feats make up for a lower wisdom giving you enough SP to stand alone as a sufficient healer (3k manna at level 25 on Exulted Angel) and is enough to be more than capable of solo healing any of the high level raids, FOT CiTW TOD VOD Shroud not a problem.

Finally some select pieces of gear:

Flawless blue dragonhide armor (Yes the light version)
Ring of the Dijin/Shadows
Omniscience
Kardin's Eye
Epic Belt of the Mroranon
Epic Helm of the Mroranon
GS HP/SP items Necklace/Goggles
Epic Envenomed Cloak

-Yes I picked the Light version of the blue armor because I play on the shadowdancer destiny alot and you gain evasion and you can only evade in light armor.

-I'm also a sucker for the old epic gear, most/all of it can be replaced with newer gear from GH such as Helm of the blue dragon/Jeweled Cloak

-I only use Omniscience in particular scenarios, the places where a higher reflex save helps (Blue Dragon room)


Epic Destinies

Main: Shadowdancer/Exulted Angel: I play on shadowdancer alot in parties where the excess of 2k SP doesn't make that much of a difference, and the survivability given by shadowdancer helps (evasion/shadowform) However when doing a raid I normally switch over to Exulted Angel for the increased SP.

Twists:
Draconic Perception
Unearthly Reactions
Energy Sheath/Brace for Impact

These twists are mainly ment to help increase reflex saves, giving a huge boost to survivability


The end result is a 800 HP healbot with a reflex of 60+, 25% blur, 25% Incorpreality, 10% Dodge, and can also have evasion. When using Ring of the dijin/Energy Sheath/GS item Electrical damage is reduced to practically 0. And dances in traps on Epic Elite. The only weakness of this build is that soloability=0 but however healing and survivability are through the roof, leaving your party members free to deal with the mobs and not worry about themselves as much. This build works great with a static group that deals the damage while this guy heals them.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drkivorkian

Nimulos
07-23-2013, 08:36 AM
1. Thankfully you can play whatever race you want. Regardless of "optimized builds" that a lot of folk seem to insist on.

2. I'll never reach end game on any of my toons, so I feel you.

3. No, there is no need to ever TR if it doesn't appeal to you.


I really really like your mentality, it's more refreshing than I can express and I hope you enjoy your time in DDO.

Finally someone with a good attitude :D

EllisDee37:

About the MT: I do think that, for now, they give SP, wich I might need. If the upcoming update changes much about that I will fix it with a LR.

About the build: Oh god, no thanks, I don't want to even try doing two things at once again. As stated, all other tries were failure and I want to try pure healbot now, if my build is designed to do something else too, I waste potential on my main focus because I propably won't properly be able to fill two roles at once. At least that's what experience told me...

Also I don't like THF, and getting to a level where I can switch it for something else will take long enough that it's a hell of annoying to get there. Your build is not a bad Idea for itself, I will see what of it I can put to use, but pure it's nothing for me.

Odysseus2011:

I don't have 32 pt build :/

Also much of that gear, including the dragonhide (I have gotten to know that not owning gianthold is a serious crime, but I don't have the money or TP for it right now), is part of Adventure packs I don't own, and I just heard I need to buy the epic destinies thing in order to get them, is that true? That would be another option killed for me.

Apart from that the note about being (nearly) immortal sounds good, but without all the gear and only 28 pts...

Fedora1
07-23-2013, 08:44 AM
What level are you now and what server are you on? :)

Qaliya
07-23-2013, 10:25 AM
Nimulos, I admire your approach and attitude towards the game.

Just one word of caution: if this is your first character, beware that healers are the most in-demand role in the game, but also the most demanding. My first was a cleric and I had no idea what I was getting myself into.. pretty soon I was being asked to heal raids I had never run before, and I had middling gear and not nearly enough money to buy the supplies that I now take for granted.

This isn't to discourage you from making the healer you want to play, just a caveat that it can be a difficult thing for someone without much experience. Good luck.

Nimulos
07-23-2013, 12:49 PM
Nimulos, I admire your approach and attitude towards the game.

Just one word of caution: if this is your first character, beware that healers are the most in-demand role in the game, but also the most demanding. My first was a cleric and I had no idea what I was getting myself into.. pretty soon I was being asked to heal raids I had never run before, and I had middling gear and not nearly enough money to buy the supplies that I now take for granted.

This isn't to discourage you from making the healer you want to play, just a caveat that it can be a difficult thing for someone without much experience. Good luck.

I stated above that I have quite some Experience. I have a wizard level 17 and a fighter level 18 and believe that, by now, I know at least somethings.

Fedora: I am level 4 on orien, good luck finding me >:)

unbongwah
07-23-2013, 12:52 PM
Given your stated goals & preferences, I'd probably do something like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 25 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Cleric \ 5 Epic)
Hit Points: 512
Spell Points: 1733
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 8
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 25)
Strength 12 14
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 16 25
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 14 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CON
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Intervention
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV


Level 21 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Epic Mental Toughness


Level 22 (Cleric)


Level 23 (Cleric)


Level 24 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Epic Toughness


Level 25 (Cleric)


Skills: after the Enhancement overhaul, you'll definitely want Concentration and Heal; I'd use the remaining pts for UMD or Balance.

There's a lot of flexibility with stat pts on a healbot who doesn't care about offensive spells; it's largely a question of what you want to boost most. I bumped up STR partly so you can melee @ low lvls and partly because getting Enfeebled into helplessness really sucks. :( Normally I wouldn't dream of going CON-based on, well, anything; but a pure healbot might be one of the few times it has appeal, for the extra HPs + higher Fort saves + eToughness. Likewise, I wouldn't normally bother w/Mental Toughness feats; but in for a penny...might as well take the whole set. [Alternatively, consider both Shield Masteries + another meta, like Extend or Enlarge.]

Qaliya
07-23-2013, 12:54 PM
I stated above that I have quite some Experience. I have a wizard level 17 and a fighter level 18 and believe that, by now, I know at least somethings.


Sorry, I must have missed it. I wish you good luck with your cleric.. it's definitely a different experience than an arcane or melee, that's for sure. :)

Fedora1
07-23-2013, 12:55 PM
I like the light-based spells with no saves mentioned above in the thread, and I know radiance affects the spell power for them. What affects the critical? Or do the light/alignment spells not have crits?

Fedora1
07-23-2013, 12:57 PM
Fedora: I am level 4 on orien, good luck finding me >:)

I have a L7 fighter on Orien, but he started at L7 (Vet II). I forget why I made him, but all I do is log in to do the daily rolls for him. lol

EllisDee37
07-23-2013, 06:37 PM
[Alternatively, consider both Shield Masteries + another meta, like Extend or Enlarge.]This would be my recommendation, with enlarge over extend, but otherwise I like your suggested build.

Nimulos
07-24-2013, 09:10 AM
Given your stated goals & preferences, I'd probably do something like this:
--Build--

Thank you, you are saving me a lot of trouble. Imma delete and roll again because I found a misstake but with Vet that's not much of a problem. You rock!

unbongwah
07-24-2013, 09:46 AM
This would be my recommendation, with enlarge over extend, but otherwise I like your suggested build.
Part of why I backloaded the Mental Toughnesses / Shield Masteries in that build is so the OP has plenty of time to make up his mind what's more useful to him: extra SPs or extra PRR. [Another possible feat is Extra Turning for +4 auras/bursts per shrine.] By lvl 15 he should know which he needs more of to help him stay alive & do his job. :)

EllisDee37
07-24-2013, 02:54 PM
Part of why I backloaded the Mental Toughnesses / Shield Masteries in that build is so the OP has plenty of time to make up his mind what's more useful to him: extra SPs or extra PRR. [Another possible feat is Extra Turning for +4 auras/bursts per shrine.] By lvl 15 he should know which he needs more of to help him stay alive & do his job. :)I would take both, dropping epic toughness and empower to make room.

unbongwah
07-24-2013, 03:46 PM
Empower boosts bursts for free, which is why I consider it a must-have on a heal-centric cleric; adding +75 Spellpower to Divine Punishment for tougher boss fights is just a perk. :) eToughness isn't a must-have, but the whole premise behind going CON-based on my last build was beaucoup HPs, so it fits the theme. I'd rather drop the MT feats for Shield Mastery x2 and extra meta, but I leave that door open for the OP.

EllisDee37
07-24-2013, 05:07 PM
Empower boosts bursts for free, which is why I consider it a must-have on a heal-centric cleric; adding +75 Spellpower to Divine Punishment for tougher boss fights is just a perk. :) eToughness isn't a must-have, but the whole premise behind going CON-based on my last build was beaucoup HPs, so it fits the theme. I'd rather drop the MT feats for Shield Mastery x2 and extra meta, but I leave that door open for the OP.I don't find I do much healing with burst, to be honest. A ton with aura and renewal, plus mass cures and the occasional mass heal, but not much burst. I do actually use burst (just not all that much) and maximize + empower heal seems to work well enough on their own.

I wouldn't want a healbot throwing maximized + empowered divine punishments at raid bosses for several reasons, most of which point back to why a healbot was rolled up in the first place.

Empower is very nice for avenging light, though. Might be worth it just for that alone.

Nimulos
07-25-2013, 09:28 AM
Empower boosts bursts for free, which is why I consider it a must-have on a heal-centric cleric; adding +75 Spellpower to Divine Punishment for tougher boss fights is just a perk. :) eToughness isn't a must-have, but the whole premise behind going CON-based on my last build was beaucoup HPs, so it fits the theme. I'd rather drop the MT feats for Shield Mastery x2 and extra meta, but I leave that door open for the OP.

I decided to drop Epic Toughness for Shield Mastery, because I went a little off on the Con you recommended in favor of wis. That way I have more healing potential in the earlier levels and given my favor for taking it slow it will take quite a while until the lacking con might get problematic. If I ever get that far, that is.


I don't find I do much healing with burst, to be honest. A ton with aura and renewal, plus mass cures and the occasional mass heal, but not much burst. I do actually use burst (just not all that much) and maximize + empower heal seems to work well enough on their own.

I wouldn't want a healbot throwing maximized + empowered divine punishments at raid bosses for several reasons, most of which point back to why a healbot was rolled up in the first place.

Empower is very nice for avenging light, though. Might be worth it just for that alone.

I found myself using the burst quite a lot on my previous cleric roll, just standing between my team and throwing a burst when I feel like they need it. If I start focusing on heals I will propably watch my teams health more and better place my bursts, but I generally use them much. Also what's wrong with the DP part? If the boss is weak to light damage, it might seriously help my team, if not I won't use DP and have more heals for my team. Would you mind listing those reasons?

unbongwah
07-25-2013, 10:08 AM
I decided to drop Epic Toughness for Shield Mastery, because I went a little off on the Con you recommended in favor of wis.
My view of Shield Mastery is: take both feats or neither. With both feats you'll get 10 PRR (http://ddowiki.com/page/PRR) from ISM w/heavy shield (+5 w/tower), plus another 15 PRR from Legendary Shield Mastery; with one feat you only get 5 PRR from SM + 10 PRR from LSM. I.e., ISM is worth +10 PRR at endgame; PRR gives diminishing returns, but I'd say that's ~4% extra dmg mitigation on a cleric. Every little bit helps...

Also what's wrong with the DP part? If the boss is weak to light damage, it might seriously help my team, if not I won't use DP and have more heals for my team. Would you mind listing those reasons?
I'm guessing it's partly because of the extra SP cost of using Emp as well as Max (thus reducing your available SPs for heals, your stated primary goal); and partly the risk of drawing boss aggro by doing too much DPS, which makes your job that much harder.

EllisDee37
07-25-2013, 05:01 PM
I found myself using the burst quite a lot on my previous cleric rollFor context, most all healing I do now is in raids where I'm nowhere near the party thanks to Enlarge, so burst isn't really a viable option. (FoT, LoB, ToD, etc...) In raids where I'm right in the thick of it with the melee (non-EE VON6), aura + burst is plenty, even without empower.

unbongwah nailed 2 of the 3 reasons I was thinking. The third is that the only reason to roll up a pure healbot is you can't handle doing two jobs at once, so building for two jobs is self-defeating. More specifically, if somebody rolls up a pure healbot it's likely because they can't both heal and keep a dot triple-stacked at the same time. That's exactly the person I don't want casting DP at bosses.

EDIT: Again, though, empower would be full of win for Avenging Light alone, and that's why I'm strongly considering it for my level 27 feat. The other choice is evocation focus for +3 DC (due to opening up the draconic twist.)

painkiller3
07-25-2013, 06:45 PM
...

Feats: I am all alone in this opinion, but you need spell points. LOTS of spell points. Especially on a new cleric. Every spell point you can get your hands on. Having said that, take every Mental Toughness you can.


...

This is excellent advice for a new cleric...spell point conservation and knowing when (and how much) offensive casting you can use is a key skill to learn, as even the worst hireling (wyoh?)can keep a barb alive

Good advice on jump as well

eachna_gislin
07-25-2013, 08:44 PM
I had this idea of a cleric completely and utterly devoted to healing and helping the party. He would be very bad without a dps-dealing teammate and thus not very soloable, but that is not my goal anyways. He would naturally be a radiant servant, but since that only goes two levels (until lvl 12 cleric) I would have some space to splash something in. Should I? What (I don't have druid, fvs or artificier)? Where?
I would propably start with:
Half Elf Cleric
STR 12
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 16
CHA 15
Split skill points between Heal and Concentration, later propably more towards concentration for the sake of healing undisturbedly and because I need to get enhancements for heal anyways for my PRE.
Feats would be Empower Healing Spell and Sorcerer Dilettante for some sorcery buff wands and scrolls.
Enhancements are adaptable, so I would take care of that later.

What do you think? Should I change something? How should I go on? Should I splash? Why/Why not?

Good plan, by playing a healing focused cleric you can learn about cleric powers at your own pace, and everyone loves having a healer along.

I'd drop charisma by 2 and start with a 10 Int. You need the few skill points you get. You don't need the heal skill for now (it will be useful after the enhancement pass but you'll get a free respec then). What you DO need is balance. A cleric lying flat on their back is useless. You also need concentration as noted. Either jump or UMD can both be very useful if you have points to spare.

Instead of sorc dilly, consider paladin dilly. The boost to saves is really nice, and again...a cleric who is failing saves isn't helping the party. Since they're both Cha based you can switch between the two and see which you like better. If you can scrape up enough plat for a +2 Int tome, you can consider putting points into UMD and that's pretty much just as good as sorc dilly.

Here are the feats I use on my caster clerics (who double as my healbot clerics)

1-Toughness ( + Paladin Dilettante)
3-Power Attack
6-Empower Healing
9-Maximize
12-Quicken
15-Mental Toughness
18-Improved Mental Toughness
21-Spell Focus: Evocation
24-Greater Spell Focus: Evocation

Note: I take power attack EVEN on caster clerics because I like that little bit of extra melee damage. You can easily take either Empower or take Mental Toughness earlier and have a spot for Epic Mental Toughness. First life clerics are starved for spellpoints, and Mental Toughnesses really help them out.

Make sure to consider gear. You want the best devotion items you can find at level, and double bonus points if they have other useful abilities like extra turns. The Sacred set from the Red Fens is nice (and gives you swapable deathblock that can be useful for many levels). So is Dalorent's Seal (a shield) from the Necropolis scarab turn ins. Actually, just look over all the necropolis scarab turn ins, there's a bunch of nice ones.

If you can, do the heroic Gianthold Reaver's Fate raid until you pull the Gauntlets of Eternity. Having a good devotion item that's not a weapon/scepter is very important to a cleric. You *will* be scroll healing at points, better to plan your gear around it then be left hanging. They'll still be useful after the enhancement pass when your heal skill will be needed for positive spell power.

Every cleric, even a basic healbot, should be able to cast a few basic offensive spells, and swing a weapon. There will be times when it will just be needed. Try to pick up items with Radiance and Impulse spellpower. They will boost your main damaging spells. Also, pick a weapon and collect useful versions while you level. For half elves, I like to choose the elven gods and enjoy a free weapon proficiency with scimitars (nice crit range, nice damage). On my caster cleric I crafted up a Min 2 greensteel scimitar. It's far from the "best" damage in the game but it's hands down one of the most *flexible* weapons available (built in keen, built in metalline, built in good damage that can be wielded by any alignment). There are some nice and easy to farm named scimitars in game. Fintan's Bite (a korthos quest reward scimitar) gives you Lifeshield at level 1. You can easily use it until level 7 or 8. The silver flame bow proficiency is another nice one, but bows are close to useless against undead most of the time you'll be levelling and you fight a lot of undead.

A player who builds a cleric to be sturdy is STILL supporting the group. Being able to zap a ranged opponent with searing light, or swing at a wounded mob with a melee weapon doesn't take away from your support role.

Just to close out, a really good healbot has TWO sources of devotion at all times (this goes back to the importance of having a devotion item that's not a weapon). You have your uber "best devotion for the level" item and you have a fall back item in a gear slot you rarely change (helm, gloves, and ring are good spots). Just like you will have to scroll heal at times and you will want to be able to kill things at times, you will end up in a situation where you need to swap gear and you'll lose access to your devotion item. It just happens. That's when your reliable Seraphim (or Gauntlets of Eternity, or lootgen Devotion ring or WHATVER) comes in handy.

eachna_gislin
07-25-2013, 08:55 PM
*mutter mutter* New Forums *mutter mutter*

Double post.

SirValentine
07-26-2013, 05:54 AM
The other choice is evocation focus for +3 DC (due to opening up the draconic twist.)


+6, potentially. +1 from the feat itself, +2 from the Draconic twist, and +3 from Magister twist.

Unless of course you're already using the Magister for Necro or something.

SirValentine
07-26-2013, 06:00 AM
On my caster cleric I crafted up a Min 2 greensteel scimitar. It's far from the "best" damage in the game but it's hands down one of the most *flexible* weapons available (built in keen, built in metalline, built in good damage that can be wielded by any alignment).


Min2 can be built with a +1 Exceptional Wisdom and +2 Insightful Wisdom on it, too. That's what I use on my caster divine lives in the levels 12-17 range.

E.g., something along these lines:

http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/shroud/cgi-bin/shroud.cgi?item=item&weapon=scimitar&effects=ins_wis_2,exc_wis_1,mineral2_weap_,holy&altar=3

sandypaws
07-26-2013, 07:28 AM
A few notes on the survivability side:

Don't dump int. You'll want, minimum, points in concentration and enough in balance to put your modified balance over 10 in whatever armor you're using. My personal preference is to also max spot, since I absolutely despise getting jumped by things like packs of panthers.

As far as splashing, I would not splash too deeply. Remember that your aura and bursts are both based off cleric level. Interesting splashes right now, to my knowledge, are either 2 monk (toughness +something else, increased saves, option of water stance, evasion), or 2 paladin (push saves through the roof).

I would also highly suggest either human (extra feat and skill point) or half-elf, for healing amp purposes. I'd generally go monk dillie on the helf. Dwarf can be interesting because of the extra saves, but I don't like their faces (or lack of healing amp). Having your aura tick on you for 80-90ish per second is a wonderful thing.

EllisDee37
07-26-2013, 08:21 PM
Unless of course you're already using the Magister for NecroExactly.