PDA

View Full Version : Upcoming Secret Doors Changes: A Suggestion which should make everyone happy...



Certon
07-18-2013, 02:46 PM
First off, don't change Detect Secret Doors or True Seeing. Leave everything the way it is. Instead:

Change the mechanics of Search!!!

That's right. If you want a 'secret door' undetectable by spells but findable by search, add levers, switches, and buttons to the list of things that can be hidden and revealed by the search skill!

Make those levers, switches, and buttons open doors. I mean, that part of the mechanic is already in the game, where a wall moves when you pull a lever, so use it more! You can set the difficulty low enough if you desire that non-rogues can spot and find them, or you can make them so hidden that only an expert in Search like a skilled Rogue can find them.

Seriously. This solution would leave the current mechanics untouched and still available, while altering a single mechanic to be more versatile and hence, more useful for the devs.

I hope a dev responds to this. I'd love to know if this is a good idea to them. I can dream, can't I?

Certon
07-23-2013, 12:50 PM
I'd love some input for this. What is bad about this idea? What is good?

Anyone?

caissede12
07-24-2013, 03:25 PM
Only "bad" thing I see about this idea is that, either the only thing affected will be new content, or they will have to "redo" all the quests (or most) and add levers etc.

Main reason I can see for this change is that, it isnt logical that a spell casted as a level 1 caster can find the Secret Door created by Mr. Super Duper Crazy Mage lvl 50.

redspecter23
07-24-2013, 04:14 PM
Only "bad" thing I see about this idea is that, either the only thing affected will be new content, or they will have to "redo" all the quests (or most) and add levers etc.

Main reason I can see for this change is that, it isnt logical that a spell casted as a level 1 caster can find the Secret Door created by Mr. Super Duper Crazy Mage lvl 50.

I have to agree here. It's not that I don't like the idea in the OP, it's just that it fails to meet any of Turbine's goals. Specifically the fact that DSD and True Seeing make search useless as a skill other than for trapping. Yes they could add a whole bunch of new door switches to existing content, but I can't see that making players very happy at all. A blanket change of the mechanics on the detection spells is easier for Turbine without making a clear divide between old content (with no secret levers) and new (which would have secret levers).

That being said, I do think your idea is a good one. I'd like to see more uses for the search skill. I just can't see it as a replacement for what Turbine has planned.

Charononus
07-24-2013, 04:36 PM
I have to agree here. It's not that I don't like the idea in the OP, it's just that it fails to meet any of Turbine's goals. Specifically the fact that DSD and True Seeing make search useless as a skill other than for trapping. Yes they could add a whole bunch of new door switches to existing content, but I can't see that making players very happy at all. A blanket change of the mechanics on the detection spells is easier for Turbine without making a clear divide between old content (with no secret levers) and new (which would have secret levers).

That being said, I do think your idea is a good one. I'd like to see more uses for the search skill. I just can't see it as a replacement for what Turbine has planned.

The problem with Turbines idea though is that if dsd doesn't work, it'll just mean that everything behind a secret door will just never be seen as people aren't going to wait for a rogue or arti to do the search and I have zero confidence old loot will be updated in a sane way or that the dc's will be sane. I view their idea as how to create dead content.

redspecter23
07-24-2013, 05:01 PM
The problem with Turbines idea though is that if dsd doesn't work, it'll just mean that everything behind a secret door will just never be seen as people aren't going to wait for a rogue or arti to do the search and I have zero confidence old loot will be updated in a sane way or that the dc's will be sane. I view their idea as how to create dead content.

Well every change in the entire game could be shot down on the basis of Turbine not being competent enough to not mess it up. When dealing with potential changes and wish lists, I like to make the assumption that in all cases, Turbine is actually able to do it right. It's certainly not the case, but it's a variable removed from the equation.

As long as mandatory secret doors all have a low DC so that clickies can find them, then I don't have an issue with it. I don't mind optionals that are available only to those that have invested in search. If they get it right, then even those that carry an item and appropriate buffs should be able to find many doors while the hardest ones will require skill point investment as well as item + GH + ex skill bonus + luck + enhancement, etc. The actual skill point investment is minimal compared to what your skill will be by end game. I think you're assuming that only rogues and arties will be finding these doors. That's a possibility, but I don't think it will be the reality.

Charononus
07-24-2013, 05:04 PM
Well every change in the entire game could be shot down on the basis of Turbine not being competent enough to not mess it up. When dealing with potential changes and wish lists, I like to make the assumption that in all cases, Turbine is actually able to do it right. It's certainly not the case, but it's a variable removed from the equation.

As long as mandatory secret doors all have a low DC so that clickies can find them, then I don't have an issue with it. I don't mind optionals that are available only to those that have invested in search. If they get it right, then even those that carry an item and appropriate buffs should be able to find many doors while the hardest ones will require skill point investment as well as item + GH + ex skill bonus + luck + enhancement, etc. The actual skill point investment is minimal compared to what your skill will be by end game. I think you're assuming that only rogues and arties will be finding these doors. That's a possibility, but I don't think it will be the reality.

We'll see what happens soon.

Atremus
07-24-2013, 05:36 PM
Won't they need to start putting loot behind doors to make the changes matter?

Iriale
07-25-2013, 04:12 AM
Well every change in the entire game could be shot down on the basis of Turbine not being competent enough to not mess it up. When dealing with potential changes and wish lists, I like to make the assumption that in all cases, Turbine is actually able to do it right. It's certainly not the case, but it's a variable removed from the equation.

As long as mandatory secret doors all have a low DC so that clickies can find them, then I don't have an issue with it. I don't mind optionals that are available only to those that have invested in search. If they get it right, then even those that carry an item and appropriate buffs should be able to find many doors while the hardest ones will require skill point investment as well as item + GH + ex skill bonus + luck + enhancement, etc. The actual skill point investment is minimal compared to what your skill will be by end game. I think you're assuming that only rogues and arties will be finding these doors. That's a possibility, but I don't think it will be the reality.
If clickies will work well, why do the change? No, this is an unnecessary nerf to spells, a lot of clikies will be useless (and a lot of classes will need store more junky clickies in the bank, only useful a pair of levels at most), and the low level arcane casters will need memorize the spell when they don’t have slots enough for offense, defence and detect door spell. And sorcerers are more screwed, they know few spells and they don’t have room for DSP for many levels; now they can use wand, but with the change wands will be a poor option.

It’s a bad change for ANYONE. Only rogues and artificers are not affected, and it’s very selfish to wish the others classes were screwed. They have the advantage of trapping, they don’t need a nerf of the rest of classes.

Turbine wants to do this for selling more skill tomes. I am worried about the future the game. Turbine is too greedy.

ozrabal
07-25-2013, 04:52 AM
Hello,
I would like true seeing to use character skills if the skill is higher then true seeing search DC.

Makes sense both from lore and gameplay point of view.
That would mean that skilled characters still benefit from true seeing.


True Seeing will now detect secret doors if you would have been able to find the door with a Spot & Search check of 30. We were going for a simple round number that's right around the Heroic/Epic line. True Seeing will continue to have all of its other effects, including negating Displacement, Blur and Invisibility.


https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/419401-Secret-Doors!?p=5030350&viewfull=1#post5030350

Deadlock
07-25-2013, 05:08 AM
Won't they need to start putting loot behind doors to make the changes matter?

I don't see them making any changes to existing content at all, but we might see this becoming a fashion for new content.

If they're going to go back and do some work to old content then revising XP upwards on some heinously bad quests should be their priority.

In principle the proposed changes to Detect Secret Doors aren't all bad, especially if they change the level of the existing Cannith crafted DSD to have a variable level based on the crafter .... and then add a bucket more SLA's that can be crafted with the same principle to give Cannith crafting a shot in the arm. And then let us craft scrolls and potions based on the caster level, even if the trade-off is that they are all BTC or BTA.

Wizza
07-25-2013, 05:26 AM
I see no reason both for the changes made by the Devs nor this one suggested from the OP.

Secret doors will always be skipped by most of the players.

Certon
07-25-2013, 11:23 AM
The idea behind my suggested change was to leave things the way they are and to use the new mechanic for the new content, giving the developers more choices in the end.