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View Full Version : I hope this is just oversight and not another epic nerf



UurlockYgmeov
07-15-2013, 04:21 PM
haven't checked other items that give greater arcane lore --- but there are just a few so looking for others that have these hard to obtain items:

The Blue Dragonscale armors are currently signifigantly nerfed on Lammania.

I just rolled up a Morninglord and went to buy a set of Blue Dragonscale

(AND HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO PUT SCREENSHOTS IN LAMANNIA POSTS WITHOUT VIOLATING THE NDA IF WE HAVE TO UPLOAD TO PUBLIC SITE???)

Ok - so I will have to type this out (will summarize)-

Live:
Greater Arcane Lore - +9% chance of all spells to critical and +0.25% damage to critical spell damage multiplier.
Spell Pen VII (+2 spell penetration for level 7 and below)

Lam: Spell Lore II - all spells gain a +2% equipment bonus to their chance to Critical Hit.
Spell Pen II (all spells +2 spell penetration)

Ok- so a quick refresher course:

Live:


Lore Type
% Crit
+ % Damage


Minor
3%
+0.25


Lesser
6%
0


Standard (basic Lore)
6%
+0.25


Greater
9%
+0.25


Major
9%
+0.5


Superior
12%
+0.5




So now lets factor in the change in spell power / critical - so subtract 5% because that has moved (IIUC)

even with that factored in - the best that can be said is blue dragonscale (and probably other items as well) have been nerfed significantly (hopefully understandable oversight) down to essentially minor arcane lore - which as a whole makes this extremely rare and hard won item essentially a trophy cosmetic armor.

Soliciting comments - especially from Devs. Am concerned. Can understand that probably used script to adjust names - but certain things need to remain. Blue dragonscale needs to be essentially.

I haven't been able to try Flawless version (upgrade to Major Arcane Lore on live) - because lack of heroic commendations - but am very concerned.

Please fix - heroic blue dragonscale needs to have Spell Lore V (5%) and need to also include the increase in spell damage.

JOTMON
07-15-2013, 05:40 PM
It is an intentional change... There in lies the problem.

Focus on changing spell powers screws old items and they don't get fixed because they cant be bothered to go back and adjust individual items.
They will however go back and retroactively adjust items that benefit players.

Ornamental Dagger is a great example..
went from the best potency item in the game to complete worthless vendor trash.
A tier 3 Epic dagger became less powerful than a level 14 random drop item..
Guess when they went back and fixed it... that's right you cant guess because they never did.
it was a big FU to players that ground out the event to get them.

All I can say to loot programmers is...
If you are going to retroactively "FIX" something then you need to do the job right and fixed everything that is impacted by the change. otherwise leave it alone and move forward.
There is not much more annoying than grinding out items and then having some one come along and break it in front of you and then tell you they will fix it later.... later never comes...

Enoach
07-15-2013, 05:57 PM
I believe last week it was mentioned that they will be adjusting the Critical Chance on items


We've review some numbers for spell criticals. We'll be adjusting spell critical chance provided by items upwards quite a bit. Exact numbers to be determined, but likely higher than those numbers are on live right now. (We are aware they are lower on Lamannia right now. That's changing.)

Noctus
07-15-2013, 06:45 PM
Ornamental Dagger is a great example..
went from the best potency item in the game to complete worthless vendor trash.
A tier 3 Epic dagger became less powerful than a level 14 random drop item..
Guess when they went back and fixed it... that's right you cant guess because they never did.
it was a big FU to players that ground out the event to get them.


Oh no, these brings back bad memories. This is what i think of this item nowadays, and i did grind out 4 of them for everyone of my chars that casts offensively:


http://img.xcitefun.net/users/2012/09/301699,xcitefun-chandoo.jpg



I still feel cheated with this. Turned a very good item i felt really happy with and that gave me a nice sense of accomplishment ... into vendortrash. Havent used it since, because it is indeed that bad nowadays.

Feather_of_Sun
07-26-2013, 10:45 AM
Thanks for the feedback on spell critical chances.
We've changed direction on this.
After trying out the lower critical chance, the new Lamannia build will be increasing them past their old (Live) critical chances. This is in addition to the new 5% spell critical chance included as a passive buff in the Magical Training feat, which many spellcasting classes get for free at level 1.

New spell critical progression on items for single damage types will be:
+10% (Level 1 items start here now!)
+11%
+12%
+13%
+14%
+15%
+16%
+17%
+18%
+19%
+20%
+21% (Look for this on Epic Elite equipment at level 28.)

Arcane Lore has been renamed to "Spell Lore"- and it should be 10% lower than the corresponding levels single damage type lores.

rest
07-26-2013, 10:58 AM
Thanks for the feedback on spell critical chances.
We've changed direction on this.
After trying out the lower critical chance, the new Lamannia build will be increasing them past their old (Live) critical chances. This is in addition to the new 5% spell critical chance included as a passive buff in the Magical Training feat, which many spellcasting classes get for free at level 1.

New spell critical progression on items for single damage types will be:
+10% (Level 1 items start here now!)
+11%
+12%
+13%
+14%
+15%
+16%
+17%
+18%
+19%
+20%
+21% (Look for this on Epic Elite equipment at level 28.)

Arcane Lore has been renamed to "Spell Lore"- and it should be 10% lower than the corresponding levels single damage type lores.

If it's that easy, can we please get "Arcane Augmentation" changed to "Spell Augmentation" so divine casters can get some love out of that unique item property?

UurlockYgmeov
07-26-2013, 11:23 AM
Thanks for the feedback on spell critical chances.
We've changed direction on this.
After trying out the lower critical chance, the new Lamannia build will be increasing them past their old (Live) critical chances. This is in addition to the new 5% spell critical chance included as a passive buff in the Magical Training feat, which many spellcasting classes get for free at level 1.

New spell critical progression on items for single damage types will be:
+10% (Level 1 items start here now!)
+11%
+12%
+13%
+14%
+15%
+16%
+17%
+18%
+19%
+20%
+21% (Look for this on Epic Elite equipment at level 28.)

Arcane Lore has been renamed to "Spell Lore"- and it should be 10% lower than the corresponding levels single damage type lores.

Thank you Feather for listening! Acting! and Communicating!

I logged into Lamdaland today and saw the changes to blue dragonscale. (Heroic - haven't seen the lv20 version yet) and was happier.

Now as I sit here thinking about these changes I can respect them.

I do have only one thing to point out - Arcane lore items are extremely rare and hard to get. -10% less than specific seems harsh. However, if I look at this through another viewpoint - the arcane lore are back to full power (almost) and you have given a buff to specific spell power. I really do like that.

Again - thank you! Means my blue dragonscale xxx, and cannith challenge spell gear BOTH are as good - if not a little better than before!

chrisdinus7
07-26-2013, 11:57 AM
Thanks for the feedback on spell critical chances.
We've changed direction on this.
After trying out the lower critical chance, the new Lamannia build will be increasing them past their old (Live) critical chances. This is in addition to the new 5% spell critical chance included as a passive buff in the Magical Training feat, which many spellcasting classes get for free at level 1.

New spell critical progression on items for single damage types will be:
+10% (Level 1 items start here now!)
+11%
+12%
+13%
+14%
+15%
+16%
+17%
+18%
+19%
+20%
+21% (Look for this on Epic Elite equipment at level 28.)

Arcane Lore has been renamed to "Spell Lore"- and it should be 10% lower than the corresponding levels single damage type lores.

A few comments.

1) Good, this almost brings crit damage to where it is on live. This brings it up to 21 + 5 (feat) + 8 (enhancement) = 34% verses the 36.75% on live.

2) Looks like the old EE gear is around 16% (Iron beads for example). Is that the intent?

3) Some gear needs help. My Fully upgraded Epic Bracers of the Wind give 6% electric lore. Since a level 1 item is supposed to give 10%, that can't be right.

4) Arcane Lore / Spell Lore is too weak compared to the others. On live, you can get 9% + 0.5 multiplier. That yields is around 5% weaker than having a superior lore item of a specific element. As such, Spell Lore should be 5% lower than the same value for a single element.

ForumAccess
07-26-2013, 12:47 PM
Arcane Lore has been renamed to "Spell Lore"- and it should be 10% lower than the corresponding levels single damage type lores.

The -10% chance for Spell Lore as opposed to a specific Lore does seem like a lot. But the loss of +25% damage that Arcane Lore had on Live is a pretty big loss relative to a specific Lore item as well. For reference:

Minimal investment on a secondary/tertiary element on Live would give a 4% chance for +75% damage at a cost of only 2 AP. A Greater Arcane Lore item, rather than a specific Superior Lore item, offers 9% chance and +25% damage.
[.13 * 2] + [.87 * 1] = 1.13

The same 2 AP investment on Lamannia offers a 2% chance to your secondary/tertiary element, and is only realistically possible for Sorcerers. Magical Training offers 5% chance. And level 28 Spell Lore offers 11% chance.
[.18 * 2] + [.82 * 1] = 1.18

So a 13% increase for a minimal investment on Live, and an 18% increase for the same investment in the new system. 16% for non-Sorcerers. Specific builds that are cross classed to focus on crit chance would be able to drive that higher, but at quite a cost. That -10% may seem like a big loss, but since it is also representing the loss of the critical damage multiplier, it remains very close to the difference between Lore items on Live.

Except for a few mid level items. Greenblade offers Greater Arcane Lore at level 12, verses the Major Lore available for specific elements. Using the same minimal investments from before, the difference comes out to a 13% increase with the Greenblade verses a 16.25% increase with the Major Lore item. That's only 3.25% less extra damage with the specific item. If the Spell Lore item at that level offers 10% less bonus, since everything now has a 2x multiplier then the Greenblade will be -10% weaker than an equivalent level specialized item, up from -3.25% weaker. Hopefully existing named items such as the Greenblade, the Blue Dragonscale Robes, and Skiver will be adjusted manually so that they retain the value that they have now, rather than being part of a blanket change that leaves them severely nerfed.


Thanks for the feedback on spell critical chances.
We've changed direction on this.
After trying out the lower critical chance, the new Lamannia build will be increasing them past their old (Live) critical chances. This is in addition to the new 5% spell critical chance included as a passive buff in the Magical Training feat, which many spellcasting classes get for free at level 1.
<snip>
+21% (Look for this on Epic Elite equipment at level 28.)

I thought that the earlier post said that the intent was to not nerf spell criticals, just readjust them?

On Live, we can pick up a Superior Lore item for +12% chance and +50% damage. We can take enhancements for 9% chance and 1.25 damage. That's a combined 21% chance for +175% damage.
[.21 * 2.75 damage for your criticals] + [.79 * 1 damage for your non-critical] = 1.3675
So on live, critical hits are increasing our spells by ~37%, and most everyone will have this for their important elements by level 24ish.

21% is listed as the highest bonus attainable from items, at level 28. The Enhancements offer +8% for their respective element. And then there is the 5% bonus form Magical Training. Wizards may be able to squeeze in some Mental Toughness feats, but most casters are too feat starved for that to really seem like a viable option. That makes for a 34% critical chance, at level 28.
[.34 * 2] + [.66 * 1] = 1.34
A 34% increase, by level 28. This is behind where we are on live, which makes it hard to see it as anything but a nerf. And it would seem that it is only attainable at level 28, when one would expect to be progressing past where we were before rather than just managing to catch up to where we were before the change!

soloist12
07-26-2013, 03:31 PM
Epic Blue Dragon Robe has Spell Lore 6 (6% crit), feels like this should be 8% if you're shooting for 10% less than specific elements.

I did not check the Tier 3 version (Major Arcane Lore), but for 15 more scales, 12 comms and 15 elven relics, this better be 10% if you're shooting for 10% less.

The spell pen remains the same, however +3 is on a bunch of loot now so it loses it's uniqueness here.

Looks like I won't have any trouble ditching this robe; too bad it took a lengthy time fetching it.

Drwaz99
07-26-2013, 04:05 PM
Epic Blue Dragon Robe has Spell Lore 6 (6% crit), feels like this should be 8% if you're shooting for 10% less than specific elements.

I did not check the Tier 3 version (Major Arcane Lore), but for 15 more scales, 12 comms and 15 elven relics, this better be 10% if you're shooting for 10% less.

The spell pen remains the same, however +3 is on a bunch of loot now so it loses it's uniqueness here.

Looks like I won't have any trouble ditching this robe; too bad it took a lengthy time fetching it.

It's only a 9% Equipment Bonus on my FVS and Sorc on Lama today. (Fully upgraded FBDS)