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Jgizle
07-08-2013, 03:08 AM
Looking to make a Human Rogue that uses Heavy or Light Repeater Crossbows.

I am new to game and currently almost level 6. I have not built my character to use bows of any kind but i plan to use my free lesser reincarnation to make this change some time in the future. Due to this I am looking for advice here so as to not make a mistake and waste this reincarnation (Resulting in having to wait for TF to fix character).

I have read about some how getting a feat from a fighter that increases critical rate which I think would be a great addition to a rogue. If any one can give me advice that would be great.

Also noob question: I know UMD means use magic device but what does it mean. Is it just so I can use wands without being a caster? Cause I have yet to use a single wand and feel like I am wasting points in it.

Here's a build I was thinking of using for a level 2, dunno where to go from here, or if its even good...

http://www.ddochargen.com/home.aspx?build=54947

I tried looking at the post below for info on doing this sort of build, but its 3 years old so looking for some updated info.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/266855-Repeater-Rogues-UNITE!!!?highlight=rogue

Soulfurnace
07-08-2013, 03:56 AM
The feat you are thinking of is called "Improved Critical [something]". ANYONE can take it, with the requirement of BAB 8.

As for UMD, it's the most powerful skill imo. (enhancement pass will change that...)
Yes, it's to let you use magical items without being a caster (Well, mainly. Also for race/alignment restrictions, but w/e.).

At low levels, that's pretty pointless. At higher levels, being able to UMD a resurrect scroll makes a hell of a difference. (And, it means you aren't using cure serious pots, you'll be using heal scrolls. That's also worth it.)
Throw on displacement, teleport, blur and god knows what else... It's just fun.

Repeater rogue would be a mechanic build. I'm not a fan of them, nor have I made one, so I can't link you anything useful, nor comment on the build you linked. Either way, don't dump UMD. Max it. Just do it. :)

Tscheuss
07-08-2013, 04:32 AM
My first repeater rogue was by accident. I made a trapper, and the repeater prof came with the PrE. It was a very pleasant surprise, and a lot of fun.

You opted for human, so you can take the repeater prof. as your bonus feat right off, and you are then free to choose whichever PrE you want. The next update will change things a bit, though. However you build it, I am sure you will have fun with it. The last link you posted is a nice place for info, even if it is a bit old. The heart of it is going to be finding the types of repeaters that will serve you best, and you may need to craft some. :)

unbongwah
07-08-2013, 10:47 AM
I tried looking at the post below for info on doing this sort of build, but its 3 years old so looking for some updated info.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/266855-Repeater-Rogues-UNITE!!!?highlight=rogue
For better or for worse, Mechanic (repeater) builds haven't changed much over the last 3 years: you still want high INT for dmg and enough DEX to acquire IPS (and later Imp Sneak Atk), plus some CON; and for feats you want Point Blank Shot, Precision, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, IC:Ranged, Imp Prec Shot, and Imp Sneak Atk (roughly in that order). The only tweaks are: what race you pick; what your base stats + lvl-ups are (largely dependent on what if any DEX tome you take); and fiddling with enhs.

Mechanics have also had their thunder stolen by Artificers, but it's still possible to make a fun Mechanic.

Jgizle
07-08-2013, 11:21 AM
plan to start working on getting +1 stat tomes at lvl 7. My current stats are a little messed up.

Roughly

16 str
17 dex
13 int
12 con
8 wis
8 w/e other stat is

I was under the assumption that i would need lots of str and got 17 dex for the improved dual wielding, or weapon fighting, something like that. I then took khopesh's as a feat later on as i lvled. I was then going to leave all the stats the way they were and get as much str as possible to maximize damage. But some one told me that is bad.

Deep down I could really care less about disabling traps and stuff, but i have simply been maximizing them because i know others will want me to have this ability. Although getting a group seems difficult. Luckily my friend from guild is on later in the day so at some point i do have some help for the harder instances.

Also what about "Bluff" my friend said I should max this as well, so I've opted in dropping/halting the adding of points into "repair" to do so.

unbongwah
07-08-2013, 01:05 PM
I was under the assumption that i would need lots of str and got 17 dex for the improved dual wielding, or weapon fighting, something like that. I then took khopesh's as a feat later on as i lvled.
That makes sense if you're a melee-focused rogue, but not if you're a repeater rogue, so the first question is: which are you?

I was then going to leave all the stats the way they were and get as much str as possible to maximize damage. But some one told me that is bad.
Pre-MotU, most TWF rogues started w/DEX 15 and added a +2 tome, which let them pick up the full TWF chain. However, when Turbine added epic lvls & feats last year, they also added the Imp Sneak Atk epic feat (http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Sneak_Attack), which adds +3d6 SA but req's base DEX 21. So now mostly-rogue builds need to decide if they're going for ISA or not, which determines how much base DEX you need.

Also, in the forthcoming Enhancement overhaul, they are various abilities for DEX-based builds / classes which lets you use DEX instead of STR as your to-hit & dmg mod with certain weapons: light weapons in the case of Tempests & Assassins, staves in the case of Acrobats. My gut feeling is STR builds w/khopeshes will still be the kings of TWF DPS in most situations, but DEX builds will feel a lot less gimped (knock on wood).

Also what about "Bluff" my friend said I should max this as well, so I've opted in dropping/halting the adding of points into "repair" to do so.
Bluff is used to make a target which you've aggroed vulnerable to sneak atks; it can also be used to stealth-pull targets one at a time, which can be helpful if you're soloing or trying to thin out mobs before tackling a boss. It's not a must-have, but it can be situationally useful and most rogues have more than enough pts to spare.

Anyway, this is my take on a classic Mechanic build. It's a 28pt halfling, so you'll have to tweak it a bit for human.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 25 True Neutral Halfling Female
(20 Rogue \ 5 Epic)
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 18
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 25)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 18 21
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 16 26
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device III
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery IV


Level 21 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sneak Attack


Level 22 (Rogue)


Level 23 (Rogue)


Level 24 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Archery (or Rapid Shot)


Level 25 (Rogue)


If you're interested in a ranged+melee build, see my Deepwood Mechanic.

Jgizle
07-09-2013, 10:59 PM
That makes sense if you're a melee-focused rogue, but not if you're a repeater rogue, so the first question is: which are you?

Pre-MotU, most TWF rogues started w/DEX 15 and added a +2 tome, which let them pick up the full TWF chain. However, when Turbine added epic lvls & feats last year, they also added the Imp Sneak Atk epic feat (http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Sneak_Attack), which adds +3d6 SA but req's base DEX 21. So now mostly-rogue builds need to decide if they're going for ISA or not, which determines how much base DEX you need.

Also, in the forthcoming Enhancement overhaul, they are various abilities for DEX-based builds / classes which lets you use DEX instead of STR as your to-hit & dmg mod with certain weapons: light weapons in the case of Tempests & Assassins, staves in the case of Acrobats. My gut feeling is STR builds w/khopeshes will still be the kings of TWF DPS in most situations, but DEX builds will feel a lot less gimped (knock on wood).

Bluff is used to make a target which you've aggroed vulnerable to sneak atks; it can also be used to stealth-pull targets one at a time, which can be helpful if you're soloing or trying to thin out mobs before tackling a boss. It's not a must-have, but it can be situationally useful and most rogues have more than enough pts to spare.

Anyway, this is my take on a classic Mechanic build. It's a 28pt halfling, so you'll have to tweak it a bit for human.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 25 True Neutral Halfling Female
(20 Rogue \ 5 Epic)
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 18
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 25)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 18 21
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 16 26
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device III
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery IV


Level 21 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sneak Attack


Level 22 (Rogue)


Level 23 (Rogue)


Level 24 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Archery (or Rapid Shot)


Level 25 (Rogue)


If you're interested in a ranged+melee build, see my Deepwood Mechanic.

I really love the rogue class so i think i would like to be able to play both a melee STR based DPS build and a repeater rogue. So i am going to make my existing one a repeater rogue using a similar build to the one you suggested.

I would like to make a 2nd character more like an assassin with Khopesh's as they have a x4 crit modifier, and try to get as much crit range / dmg as possible with and without sneak attack/assassinate. If you could suggest a build for this as well that would be great.

Also one side question, what if i made the rogue but neglected one of their key abilities, finding traps, disabling traps, and unlocking doors. I was thinking maybe ignore some of the trap skills to use on other attack skills or useful abilities (I am thinking by neglecting my dependence on trap locating/disabling i could some how maximize full dmg potential)

Soulfurnace
07-09-2013, 11:22 PM
with Khopesh's as they have a x4 crit modifier
You mean 20% range, x3 multiplier (which is why they're good.)
Heavy/light picks are 10% range, x4 multiplier. (Deathnips are 20% and x4.. and.. are awesome..)
For a str based rogue, https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/352591-MAX-DPS-ROGUE-build(assassin-3-str-build-guide) would be a decent place to start.

*edit* What? No. Don't drop OL/search/disable/UMD. Don't do it. Most players can't dodge traps, and you're likely to be kicked from a group needing a trapper. (Hey, multi-tasking is what rogues do)
NONE of the current skills will give dps potential, aside from two; bluff and diplomacy (and that's just for sneak attack when you have agro)

Jgizle
07-10-2013, 01:21 AM
You mean 20% range, x3 multiplier (which is why they're good.)
Heavy/light picks are 10% range, x4 multiplier. (Deathnips are 20% and x4.. and.. are awesome..)
For a str based rogue, https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/352591-MAX-DPS-ROGUE-build(assassin-3-str-build-guide) would be a decent place to start.

*edit* What? No. Don't drop OL/search/disable/UMD. Don't do it. Most players can't dodge traps, and you're likely to be kicked from a group needing a trapper. (Hey, multi-tasking is what rogues do)
NONE of the current skills will give dps potential, aside from two; bluff and diplomacy (and that's just for sneak attack when you have agro)

There is power attack (13 str) and some other skills you can get which gives you more ways of handing out dmg?

Soulfurnace
07-10-2013, 02:43 AM
There is power attack (13 str) and some other skills you can get which gives you more ways of handing out dmg?
Power attack is not a skill; it is a feat. Skills are things like Open Lock, Disable Device, Search, UMD, Move silently, Heal, Repair, etc.
No SKILL will give dps, some will allow sneak attack, but won't directly give damage.
MANY feats do; in fact, most feats taken are for dps (or hps)
In regards to what FEATS to take, I linked a str rogue build which outlines good feats. As it states, they aren't in leveling order. I'd take power attack first, then TWF, toughness, then TWF line, then whatever else it lists.

So, take the SKILLS seach, OL, disable device, UMD, then bluff/diplomacy (both preferably)
As for feats, check the link I attached.

*Note. In my prior post, I gave deathnips IC: pierce, due to being distracted by the dog.
With IC, khopeshes are 20% and x3, deathnips are 20% and x4.
Without IC, khopeshes are 10% and x3, deathnips are 10% and x4. (Although, deathnips are irrelevant for you, not sure why I brought them up.)

NĂ©dime
07-26-2013, 04:30 PM
I tried 13 rogue / 7 artie was a halfling (mainly it adds to sneak).
If I was to re-roll this kind of build I wouldn't take essence construct (makes neither heal nor reconstruct efficient) and replace it with improved feint - but it was very fun, max trap-skills, max UMD, very decent dps (haven't taken him to shiradi so could have been much more efficient), bluff ... (maybe with Helf you could get an extra racial bluff).