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CaptainSpacePony
07-07-2013, 08:47 AM
There are three or four things that help you see in rainbow in the dark:
The Radient Arc, spell summoned archon, SLA summoned archon, and maybe shadowwalk.

I propose expanding that list to include some of the following:
-Summoned fire elemental
-Fire elemental form
-Body of the Sun
-Radient Servant aura
-Fire shield
-Flame turret
-Radient forcefield
-Hypnotic pattern (?)
-Undersun goggles
-Faerie Fire (lesser radius)
-Flaming weapons
-Flame blades
-Flaming Sphere
-Wall of Fire
-Fire seeds

The illumination from some of those could be of a reduced radius, but as it stands, it seems very odd that near-epic characters in a high-magic setting don't have more light sources available.

AZgreentea
07-07-2013, 08:57 AM
There are three or four things that help you see in rainbow in the dark:
The Radient Arc, spell summoned archon, SLA summoned archon, and maybe shadowwalk.

I propose expanding that list to include some of the following:
-Summoned fire elemental
-Fire elemental form
-Body of the Sun
-Radient Servant aura
-Fire shield
-Flame turret
-Radient forcefield
-Hypnotic pattern (?)
-Undersun goggles
-Faerie Fire (lesser radius)
-Flaming weapons
-Flame blades
-Flaming Sphere
-Wall of Fire
-Fire seeds

The illumination from some of those could be of a reduced radius, but as it stands, it seems very odd that near-epic characters in a high-magic setting don't have more light sources available.
The Undersun Goggles would make sense, though the wiki says they only work in the underdark.

The issue with the other ones is that they would have to be modified to produce actual light. I remember an old dev post from around the Carnival update talking about how the engine has trouble with light sources. The jist was that there is only allowed to be a certain number of sources hitting an object. If all of those started producing light, it would cause problems in other dungeons.

Qhualor
07-07-2013, 09:00 AM
the problem I have with the summoned archon is that it rubber bands to you, not follow and its very weak. that was my experience when I soloed it on my paladin lives. after awhile I just switched between weapons and flashlight and threw away the scrolls.

not sure if underdark goggles should work in there though. is there underdark radiation in Rainbow?

Violith
07-07-2013, 09:14 AM
There are three or four things that help you see in rainbow in the dark:
The Radient Arc, spell summoned archon, SLA summoned archon, and maybe shadowwalk.

I propose expanding that list to include some of the following:
-Summoned fire elemental
-Fire elemental form
-Body of the Sun
-Radient Servant aura
-Fire shield
-Flame turret
-Radient forcefield
-Hypnotic pattern (?)
-Undersun goggles
-Faerie Fire (lesser radius)
-Flaming weapons
-Flame blades
-Flaming Sphere
-Wall of Fire
-Fire seeds

The illumination from some of those could be of a reduced radius, but as it stands, it seems very odd that near-epic characters in a high-magic setting don't have more light sources available.


most of what you put dont give off enough light to see. Usually blast AOE's suck as fireball and such work alot better then any of the above (apart from the main 4). i've found that the wand of blasting works well (10 uses recharges every few seconds). but honestly, whats the point of adding more? there is the arc, which if your not with the person whose got it, and they wont come back to get you then your in the wrong group.

Talon_Moonshadow
07-07-2013, 09:17 AM
Why?

psykopeta
07-07-2013, 09:19 AM
There are three or four things that help you see in rainbow in the dark:
The Radient Arc, spell summoned archon, SLA summoned archon, and maybe shadowwalk.

I propose expanding that list to include some of the following:
-Summoned fire elemental
-Fire elemental form
-Body of the Sun
-Radient Servant aura
-Fire shield
-Flame turret
-Radient forcefield
-Hypnotic pattern (?)
-Undersun goggles
-Faerie Fire (lesser radius)
-Flaming weapons
-Flame blades
-Flaming Sphere
-Wall of Fire
-Fire seeds

The illumination from some of those could be of a reduced radius, but as it stands, it seems very odd that near-epic characters in a high-magic setting don't have more light sources available.

fireball, lightning rod(arti spell), some aoe can enlighten an area(like ice storm and discoball)

and, also, the objective in the quest is quite easy to understand: stay together

Satyriasys
07-07-2013, 09:46 AM
There are three or four things that help you see in rainbow in the dark:
The Radient Arc, spell summoned archon, SLA summoned archon, and maybe shadowwalk.

I propose expanding that list to include some of the following:
-Summoned fire elemental
-Fire elemental form
-Body of the Sun
-Radient Servant aura
-Fire shield
-Flame turret
-Radient forcefield
-Hypnotic pattern (?)
-Undersun goggles
-Faerie Fire (lesser radius)
-Flaming weapons
-Flame blades
-Flaming Sphere
-Wall of Fire
-Fire seeds

The illumination from some of those could be of a reduced radius, but as it stands, it seems very odd that near-epic characters in a high-magic setting don't have more light sources available.

Is this quest really too hard for you? I recommend joining a guild or asking for advice on the forums if you are having a hard time with Vale quests.

CaptainSpacePony
07-07-2013, 10:25 AM
Is this quest really too hard for you? I recommend joining a guild or asking for advice on the forums if you are having a hard time with Vale quests.

Not sure where in my OP I said the quest was too difficult.

It just makes little sense to me that an archon lights the area, but glowing clerics and flaming elementals do not.

Charononus
07-07-2013, 11:14 AM
Should fire effects produce light, yeah they should but like mentioned there is probably a technical reason for it, I'd rather not have them mess with it and break five other quests. If you really hate the quest and the light, turn your gamma up for this quest and you can see regardless.

Missing_Minds
07-07-2013, 12:16 PM
most of what you put dont give off enough light to see. Usually blast AOE's suck as fireball and such work alot better then any of the above (apart from the main 4). i've found that the wand of blasting works well (10 uses recharges every few seconds). but honestly, whats the point of adding more? there is the arc, which if your not with the person whose got it, and they wont come back to get you then your in the wrong group.

Actually a couple of shots from the eternal wands like acid splash and spark flinger work pretty well as tracers that emit light. 2-4 shots are normally plenty for me to make my way around stuff. Granted at times I have to let them recharge. Which is why I go in with SMIV scrolls normally.

CaptainSpacePony
07-07-2013, 02:53 PM
Should fire effects produce light, yeah they should but like mentioned there is probably a technical reason for it, I'd rather not have them mess with it and break five other quests. If you really hate the quest and the light, turn your gamma up for this quest and you can see regardless.

I agree that I wouldn't want to see anything broken. On the other hand I don't see how difficult it would be to make fire elemental form produce the same illumination as an archon in the one quest only.

Where is this "I hate the quest" coming from? I like rainbow and farm it most lives. I'm just trying to make a design suggestion here.

toaftoaf
07-07-2013, 04:44 PM
it's been a nice "feature" im sure the interns did not plan on it working

Tscheuss
07-07-2013, 05:09 PM
It would be nice if Drow could see without the flashlight. The player character Drow, I mean. The npc Drow seem to see just fine in the dark wherever.

Mindos
07-07-2013, 06:15 PM
Actually a couple of shots from the eternal wands like acid splash and spark flinger work pretty well as tracers that emit light. 2-4 shots are normally plenty for me to make my way around stuff. Granted at times I have to let them recharge. Which is why I go in with SMIV scrolls normally.

Do you have to target an enemy?

Missing_Minds
07-07-2013, 06:26 PM
Do you have to target an enemy?

nope, just pew pew.

Aganthor
07-07-2013, 07:44 PM
Calculating numerous sources of light with shadows would probably induce lag... That is a no-no in my book. But the OP is right, a huge fire elemental should produce enough light to see in the dark.

Impaqt
07-07-2013, 08:53 PM
Not sure where in my OP I said the quest was too difficult.

It just makes little sense to me that an archon lights the area, but glowing clerics and flaming elementals do not.


you are correct. however, the correct fix would be to suppress the "Light" from the archons.

Rainbow in the dark is not dark just because you forgot to bring torches. Its darkness is a magical effect.

Talon_Moonshadow
07-07-2013, 09:28 PM
you are correct. however, the correct fix would be to suppress the "Light" from the archons.

Rainbow in the dark is not dark just because you forgot to bring torches. Its darkness is a magical effect.

I disagree about the Archons.

I would like to think that an Outsider... an Archon no less... with the name of "Lantern Archon".... could make a special light.

I also like that there "are" some options for this quest.

Actually, I am torn between what I think about this quest.

How nice it would be if groups were forced to stay together....
But in reality people just get left behind.

.. and a party wipe here used to be almost impossible to re-enter and keep going. (not that anyone does that anymore...... :( )

So on one hand, I like that there are work-arounds and options.

But on the other hand, I love this quest and would hate to see it nerfed so that no one ever needs the "light" equiped to run this quest.

Probably best just to leave it alone.....

Qaliya
07-08-2013, 12:00 AM
The entire point of Rainbow is that it's very hard to do without the arc. Add in a dozen ways to bypass it, and it's just another quest.

Would be a bad idea, IMO.

CaptainSpacePony
07-08-2013, 06:28 AM
The entire point of Rainbow is that it's very hard to do without the arc. Add in a dozen ways to bypass it, and it's just another quest.

Would be a bad idea, IMO.

I considered this point before posting the OP. I mostly agree, but after farming in on 3 consecutive cleric lives, it never felt right that my prestige didn't make a dent in the darkness while archons did.

Admittedly the list I proposed is very inclusive and if I were a dev, I would not include many of the things on there, but I would consider each of them. I would probably add cleric and fire elemental auras as light sources. If I could easily make other things give off less light, I'd do that with many of the other items.

salmag
07-10-2013, 10:08 AM
you are correct. however, the correct fix would be to suppress the "Light" from the archons.

Rainbow in the dark is not dark just because you forgot to bring torches. Its darkness is a magical effect.

This ^^^^.

The darkness is magical in nature; hence, all light save the Radient Arc should be suppressed.

Lord_Asmodeus
07-10-2013, 11:53 AM
If you can use a rune arm then I would suggest using hand of the tomb, you can use the light generated by it's blast to see.
While other players may not be able to see its light the player using it can.