View Full Version : We need more mini-raids like Tempests Spine!

06-19-2013, 07:30 PM
Tempests Spine is such a fun raid. The XP tends to be ok, the loot has some nice quirks to it, and most of all, it's fun! We could sure use more raids like these for mid and high level content, but first, I want to define what a mini-raid is. A mini raid:

Is a raid instance that supports raid groups up to 12 players.
Has good XP, usually more than a standard quest.
Has loot that is usually a bit better than quests but rarely meets raid quality.
Has more focus on being fun and entertaining than it is raid loot and super-tough boss battles, though they are not without their challenges.
Has no raid timer or reflagging mechanic at all.
Tend to be a bit longer than quests, though not as long as standard raid groups.

More mini-raids to high level content would be a great addition to the game because it would add variety to gameplay, add new challenges to confront the playerbase and add more ways to have fun! No need to go into further explaination, its as simple as that. A few examples of what would consist of mini-raid content at high levels include:

One of Lolth's leaders has a lair in the Stormhorn mountains! You must make a daunting climb up and into the mountain to stop Lolth's forces from attacking one of Cormyr's cities! As you make the climb, you must overcome many obsticles and your group must make a decision(By a majority vote via NPC dialogue that expires one minute after it begins, with blank votes counting as no.) whether or not destroy a orb of dragonkind that the leader possesses! Destruction means more XP, preservation means much better loot, but a harder battle as well; he will call the dragons at the final battle!
The devils, demons and angels of shavarath are converging at a mysterious site to obtain a artifact of great power that is said to end the everlasting war on shavarath once and for all. You must fight through all of their forces with wit and might to get to this artifact before anyone else does. But when you finally get there, the Yugoloth also want it for their own purposes. Do you make a stand and destroy everyone and everything at the site so that none can possess this power, or do you hand it over to the Yugoloth, who want to destroy all the demons on shavarath, risking major side effects on Ebberon? Either way, it ends with a fight!
Legend holds of a mighty necromancer deep within the caves of the underdark, far below where the drow fear to tread. The War Wizards have scryed and forseen that a great doom is about to be unleashed on the surface realm. You must journey through some of the darkest caves in all of the underdark that nobody, not even the drow, dare to tread, enter the necromancers tower, and stop him before he unleashes a colossal flesh golem that will level all of Cormyr! But will it be too late?

Thoughts on the idea of mini-raids?

06-19-2013, 07:35 PM
Tempest spine was not designed to be an 'easy miniraid'. It was simply the first raid in the game, before the content designers had a clear idea of what they actually wanted the raids in DDO to look like. It also played out quite a lot differently than it does today, now that the near-unhittable blackguard AC is just about meaningless and player damage has soared through the roof. I would really rather get more than one (two if you are very generous) endgame raid to run at cap, rather than 12-man quests scattered through lower levels.

06-19-2013, 11:29 PM
Tempest's Spine is a victim of power creep, like all of the heroic content.

It was a difficult raid and did indeed take as long as a "real" raid, in your terminology and was failed pretty often. It's only a romp/autocomplete these days because of the enormous power creep, including easily craftable DR breakers, increases in permanent skill points that give players higher UMD for things like Fire Shield scrolls, and ship buffs that make the fire damage trivial, not to mention green steel weapons and accessories.

The "loot" in Tempest Spine is only secondary junk these days because of all the more powerful generic lootgen and the fact that even when they revamped old named items, they kept some ridiculous minimum levels on them, ensuring that most would only get used by first-life, FTP'ers, then kept in the TR cache until trashed for better gear. Drop rates were pretty pathetic back when the items were worth having.

I personally love TS and all the detail and effort that went in to it. I have fond memories of dying/wiping/miraculous saves in there. Now, at level, I can roam the outside of the mountain and kill the foes and have even taken the "side turns" inside the mountain to explore the parts that are off the main path. Back in the day, leaving your party meant certain death... now I'm a tourist. I think the work that went into that particular raid is pretty fabulous, even if new players find it a joke.

I don't see the devs investing the time to build an endgame raid with the express idea that it has no flagging, is easy to run and drops weak named items like candy. Things worth having require a little effort.

I guess with stupidly overpowered ED's, your "miniraids" are called Shroud, Hound, VoD, Abbot and ToD. Flagging as an epic character is pretty trivial and if you want to run it again, buy a raid timer.