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View Full Version : Melee Damage for Dummies. AKA why can't I hit as hard as that next guy.



earl_of_pain
06-15-2013, 02:23 PM
Every link I've checked on for melee damage seems to take me to the same 404 page of no long here. So I'm asking if there is a CURRENT link to how to maximize melee damage. Some people claim to be hitting for over a 1000 pts of damage at level 14. I would like to be able to do that also. This is what I've figured out so far.

So. Weapon base. Two handers traditionally do more. Two weapon you strike twice as much. Sword and Board has double strike.

Magic enhancement. A +5 is better than a +2 if the sword has the same effects.

Strength. Bigger the better. enhancement bonus, insightful bonus, psionic bonus, rage, anything you can get to raise that score.

Feats. POWER ATTACK (caps intended), weapon specialization, even shield mastery to increase double strike.

Enhancements. Prestige class abilities, strength boost, etc.

Gear. Crit range and crit damage. Seeker effects. Melee Alacrity. Even a haste potion for that last boss battle.

I haven't hit epic feats/destiny yet so I know next to nothing on that. What am I missing now? Why am I only doing a tenth of what others are claiming?

Toro12
06-15-2013, 02:28 PM
Every link I've checked on for melee damage seems to take me to the same 404 page of no long here. So I'm asking if there is a CURRENT link to how to maximize melee damage. Some people claim to be hitting for over a 1000 pts of damage at level 14. I would like to be able to do that also. This is what I've figured out so far.

So. Weapon base. Two handers traditionally do more. Two weapon you strike twice as much. Sword and Board has double strike.

Magic enhancement. A +5 is better than a +2 if the sword has the same effects.

Strength. Bigger the better. enhancement bonus, insightful bonus, psionic bonus, rage, anything you can get to raise that score.

Feats. POWER ATTACK (caps intended), weapon specialization, even shield mastery to increase double strike.

Enhancements. Prestige class abilities, strength boost, etc.

Gear. Crit range and crit damage. Seeker effects. Melee Alacrity. Even a haste potion for that last boss battle.

I haven't hit epic feats/destiny yet so I know next to nothing on that. What am I missing now? Why am I only doing a tenth of what others are claiming?

Greensteel lighting strike vs.lightning vulnerable mobs is about the only way to pull 1k damage at 14.

Don't believe the hype

Kamode_Corebasher
06-15-2013, 03:12 PM
Greensteel lighting strike vs.lightning vulnerable mobs is about the only way to pull 1k damage at 14.

Don't believe the hype

I agree with this statement!
It looks like you've done your homework...the other major factors relate to FEATs and enhancements (cleave and great cleave are biggies).

Qhualor
06-15-2013, 05:34 PM
I could believe a caster doing that kind of damage at 14, but I suppose it could possibly be one of those multi class flavor of the month builds. I play a 9th life pure barb with Lit II and focus on max strength and maxing out all the dps enhancements and feats with 3 monk past lives. she is pure dumb dumb dps. with full party and ship buffs, she wasn't doing that kind of damage at 14, unless you count the lightening proc. maybe you heard a bard singing a story?

earl_of_pain
06-15-2013, 06:19 PM
That makes me feel slightly better about my guy hitting in the 40-50 range with some crits in the 200+ range. One thing I did forget to add in was stunning blow. Love the bonus damage to the guy. I also believe if the mob has a stat lowered to 0 that also does the same "helpless" effect. Yes there is sleep/hold spells but I'm talking just melee ability.

I'm really looking forward to the Epic Destiny. Master's Blitz sounds like a lot of fun.

Veles
06-15-2013, 08:41 PM
I could believe a caster doing that kind of damage at 14, but I suppose it could possibly be one of those multi class flavor of the month builds.
Any savant does that kind of damage easily with respective element, heck, blade barrier crits for 500 at level 14.
Any melee is way behind blue bars in heroics, not mentioning aoe damage.

zero32483
08-30-2013, 06:40 AM
Any savant does that kind of damage easily with respective element, heck, blade barrier crits for 500 at level 14.
Any melee is way behind blue bars in heroics, not mentioning aoe damage.

True. Generally speaking, melee is there to take the aggro off the squishier blue bars. "Ignore the scrawny guy behind me waving his hands in the air and pay attention to the sharp, pointy thing I'm swinging at you, Evildoer!"

Glascanon
09-16-2013, 06:06 AM
Yes it is possible to do such high crits with the right attack (additional dices and or crit multipliers), the right weapon (2 Handed, 3 or 4 crit multiplier, better base weapon dice), the right feats (Overwhelming critical, Power Attack) and all u can get to maximize your crit records on a helpless Target if u break the Fortification.

But that doesn´t mean he does more DPS then other meles.

100+100+90+1000 is less then 230+80+500+60+80+70+250+250 in the same Time.

Especially if the mob has just a few Hitpoints left before he dies. High crits doesn't mean the toon does more dmg overall if u hit way faster and crit way more often.

zwiebelring
09-16-2013, 07:40 AM
Every link I've checked on for melee damage seems to take me to the same 404 page of no long here. So I'm asking if there is a CURRENT link to how to maximize melee damage. Some people claim to be hitting for over a 1000 pts of damage at level 14. I would like to be able to do that also. This is what I've figured out so far.

So. Weapon base. Two handers traditionally do more. Two weapon you strike twice as much. Sword and Board has double strike.

Magic enhancement. A +5 is better than a +2 if the sword has the same effects.

Strength. Bigger the better. enhancement bonus, insightful bonus, psionic bonus, rage, anything you can get to raise that score.

Feats. POWER ATTACK (caps intended), weapon specialization, even shield mastery to increase double strike.

Enhancements. Prestige class abilities, strength boost, etc.

Gear. Crit range and crit damage. Seeker effects. Melee Alacrity. Even a haste potion for that last boss battle.

I haven't hit epic feats/destiny yet so I know next to nothing on that. What am I missing now? Why am I only doing a tenth of what others are claiming?
1k damage at lvl. 14 is probably a fortunate planetar constellation basedcritical hit. And because bigger numbers look better than tiny ones dps is measured in crit.s. There is a big difference between having a nova dps build (means, burn hot and really fast, aka Furyshot AAs) or having steady and slow but continous dps, like tanks and survivable melee builds show.

The current enhancement changes to Kensai giv you the best of both things. You might check out T5 Kensai enhancement One With The Blade.

For your goal it seems best to use a high crit. multiplier weapon and push your base damage to the maximum. What you have to calcualte, though, is what threat range + according multiplier has biggest efficiency as well as to how you achieve a high multiplier and threat range till lvl. 14.

Something like Greensteel Falchion Lit2 used by a Kensai comes to mind spontaneously. But there are other not so obvious options as well, I guess.

visibleman
09-16-2013, 07:48 AM
Feats. POWER ATTACK (caps intended)

Gear. Crit range and crit damage. Seeker effects.


To get those really big numbers, you need to crit.

So pick a weapon with a good crit profile, some named weapons have boosted crit profiles.

Also, some mobs have Fortification which makes them immune to crits. So, while PA is useful, if you have to choose and can't have both, go for Precision - you'll hit more and crit more.

Inoukchuk
09-16-2013, 04:03 PM
I could believe a caster doing that kind of damage at 14, but I suppose it could possibly be one of those multi class flavor of the month builds. I play a 9th life pure barb with Lit II and focus on max strength and maxing out all the dps enhancements and feats with 3 monk past lives. she is pure dumb dumb dps. with full party and ship buffs, she wasn't doing that kind of damage at 14, unless you count the lightening proc. maybe you heard a bard singing a story?

I could see it happening on a barb with SoS. At that point you have x5 crit on 19-20, on a helpless mob. Assume they are using some effect to give them +5 weapon damage (e.g. tantrum) or +10[w] (slaughter) and have high seeker + rage with max str on a helpless mob. Helpless + crit is x7.5 damage, so they would only have to reach 134 base damage with seeker. Figure:
+77 - base = 11[2d6] (slaughter attack)
+37 - Str*1.5: 50str - +20 horc, +4 enh, +9 double frenzy +6 item +4 tome +2 ship +2 pot +3 level-up= 25*1.5=37
+5 - Enchantment
+13 - PA
+8 - seeker
+6 - racial enhancement
+6 - item (deadly VI)
=152 on an average roll *x5 crit=760 x1.5 helpless=1140 not counting any bard buffs or other effects they could have from splashing (ram's might, divine might, etc). At +5[W] a base damage roll of 57 (out of possible 72) gets your 1k crit without other spells/effects/exploits. Could get higher with damage boost. And I'm sure an expert on barbs could add some things to my list above

So yeah... possible. That said you'd have to be a brainless barbarian that loses HP like a raincloud loses water. And you'd have to have a helpless mob, which you could accomplish easy enough with stunning blow.

Inoukchuk
09-16-2013, 04:10 PM
I could see it happening on a barb with SoS. At that point you have x5 crit on 19-20, on a helpless mob. Assume they are using some effect to give them +5 weapon damage (e.g. tantrum) or +10[w] (slaughter) and have high seeker + rage with max str on a helpless mob. Helpless + crit is x7.5 damage, so they would only have to reach 134 base damage with seeker. Figure:
+77 - base = 11[2d6] (slaughter attack)
+37 - Str*1.5: 50str - +20 horc, +4 enh, +9 double frenzy +6 item +4 tome +2 ship +2 pot +3 level-up= 25*1.5=37
+5 - Enchantment
+13 - PA
+8 - seeker
+6 - racial enhancement
+6 - item (deadly VI)
=152 on an average roll *x5 crit=760 x1.5 helpless=1140 not counting any bard buffs or other effects they could have from splashing (ram's might, divine might, etc). At +5[W] a base damage roll of 57 (out of possible 72) gets your 1k crit without other spells/effects/exploits. Could get higher with damage boost. And I'm sure an expert on barbs could add some things to my list above

So yeah... possible. That said you'd have to be a brainless barbarian that loses HP like a raincloud loses water. And you'd have to have a helpless mob, which you could accomplish easy enough with stunning blow.

Also, to reiterate what someone else said, being able to reach some stupid huge # under super stupid ideal circumstances doesn't make the best DPS toon necessarily. You have to take into account crit range, rate of attack, average damage per swing, and then once done calculating DPS consider if 10% more/less damage is worth a major difference in survivability and versatility. That's why most of the melee builds you see posted now (posted and actually played will vary greatly) are fighter/monk/something mixes.

Inoukchuk
09-16-2013, 04:14 PM
And one last (for now) thought. when they say hitting for 1000, they may mean DPS rather than individual hits. 1000 DPS is a bit easier to achieve but will probably require a good build and good equipment to hit that.

Qhualor
09-16-2013, 04:21 PM
also to point out this thread was kinda necro'd, filed under Fighter and posted before the new enhancements. no idea if the new enhancements can get a Fighter or any melee class to deal 1k damage or not at level 14ish.

Inoukchuk
09-16-2013, 05:29 PM
also to point out this thread was kinda necro'd, filed under Fighter and posted before the new enhancements. no idea if the new enhancements can get a Fighter or any melee class to deal 1k damage or not at level 14ish.

Good point about the thread necro, didn't see that. However my example was for new enhancements, but just as easily achieved I think with old enhancements. As for fighters hitting that hard (new system), let's get an idea...maybe try 14 pal:

+10 - base = 1.5[1d12] (any paragon greataxe)
+28 - Str*1.5: 50str - +18, +3 enh, +10 DM +6 item +4 tome +2 ship +2 pot +3 level-up= 48*1.5=40
+5 - Enchantment
+10 - PA
+8 - seeker
+6 - racial enhancement (dwarf)
+6 - item (deadly VI)
+3 - divine favor
+49 - exalted smite
= 120*5(exalted smite= +2 multi) = 600 *1.5(stunned) = 900 * 1.3 (damage boost) = 1170

Fighter will be harder, might need to splash monk and/or barb and/or cleric. Let's try 12 ftr / 1 clr / 1 monk (centered greataxe):
+29 - base = 4.5[1D12] (fists of iron + any paragon greataxe)
+36 - Str*1.5: 50str - +20 horc, +4 enh, +8 DM +6 item +8 boost +4 tome +2 ship +2 pot +2 level-up +2 rage= 58*1.5=36
+5 - Enchantment
+13 - PA
+8 - seeker
+6 - racial enhancement (horc)
+6 - weapon group specialization
+6 - item (deadly VI)
+1 - divine favor
+10 - weapon meditation (I know, it's weak sauce)
= 120*5(earth stance = +1 multi, fist of iron = +1) = 600 *1.5(stunned) = 900 * 1.2 (brutality) = 1080

Ralmeth
09-18-2013, 03:18 PM
also to point out this thread was kinda necro'd, filed under Fighter and posted before the new enhancements. no idea if the new enhancements can get a Fighter or any melee class to deal 1k damage or not at level 14ish.

Even though this is a necro thread...thought I'd chime in. You can get to around 1k damage in a single swing on a 14ish level melee by first using stunning blow for +50% damage, and then getting a lightning strike from a lit 2 weapon. I've had lightning strikes do over 900 HP of damage this way, plus your normal damage. But it only happens once in a great while, so I wouldn't build for it.

Qhualor
09-18-2013, 03:29 PM
Even though this is a necro thread...thought I'd chime in. You can get to around 1k damage in a single swing on a 14ish level melee by first using stunning blow for +50% damage, and then getting a lightning strike from a lit 2 weapon. I've had lightning strikes do over 900 HP of damage this way, plus your normal damage. But it only happens once in a great while, so I wouldn't build for it.

Yeah I have lightening guard on my GS gloves and seen it proc in that range. Procs are too random to figure into consistent damage while dpsing. It really would have to be the right kind of build with the right kind of gear and the right kind of feats and enhancements. Your average player usually won't achieve this at 14.

Inoukchuk
09-18-2013, 04:13 PM
Even though this is a necro thread...thought I'd chime in. You can get to around 1k damage in a single swing on a 14ish level melee by first using stunning blow for +50% damage, and then getting a lightning strike from a lit 2 weapon. I've had lightning strikes do over 900 HP of damage this way, plus your normal damage. But it only happens once in a great while, so I wouldn't build for it.

Usually when people say "I hit that guy for 1000!" they aren't talking about the lightning proc, though I know it's a possibility I would assume it someone saying the actual sword damage was 1000+.

Regarding the OP, I just don't think this is in any way a common occurrence. I don't think most builds will hit anything for 1000 damage at level 14 at all, and the rare ones that do are almost certainly referring to a critical hit on a helpless target with a high multiplier weapon/attack. It's certainly not a # you need to get hung up on, and it's why many people prefer to do something like time how long it takes to kill Sobrien to determine actual DPS rather than a peak anomaly.

But if your concern is that feel like you aren't doing enough damage, post some information about your build and gear and I'm sure we can come up with some suggestions to improve it.

Grynberg
10-08-2013, 03:30 AM
I have played a kensai-monk for a few TR-s and I crit for 350-600 regularily with my sos on level 14. Lucky great cleave crits on stunned fellas go for around 700-900. I usually go solo or pug so there's not a lot of buffs from other people involved. If you add warchanter and other rare buffs I don't use then theoretically you can hit for quite a bit higher then 1000.

So yes, it's extremely rare to hit for 1000 on level 14, but it's definitely possible.